Disney's Out of My Mind with Director Amber Sealey

Disney's Out of My Mind will be released on Disney+ tomorrow, and I had the opportunity to interview the director, Amber Sealey, on today's podcast. The film is about a sixth grader, Melody Brooks, who has cerebral palsy, is nonverbal, and uses a wheelchair. As Melody navigates the ups and downs of being in the classroom, she eventually shows that what she has to say is more important than how she says it.

Amber Sealey is an award-winning filmmaker whose most recent film, Out of My Mind (Disney/ Participant/Big Beach), premiered at Sundance 2024 to multiple standing ovations. Based on the best-selling YA novel of the same name, it stars Rosemarie DeWitt, Luke Kirby, and Judith Light, with Jennifer Aniston voicing the lead's inner life.

Projects she has in development include two of her original scripts — the comedy feature COMING OF AGE and the romantic comedy BODICE RIPPER. Her feature NO MAN OF GOD (SpectreVision/Company X/XYZ Films/RLJ Entertainment), starring Elijah Wood and Luke Kirby, was theatrically released in 2021 to rave reviews.

She has been supported by Sundance, Film Independent, and Women in Film. She is a fellow of the AFI Directing Workshop for Women and has written scripts for Duplass Brothers/Donut Productions. She was selected for Ryan Murphy’s Half Initiative, the NBCUniversal Directors Initiative, the WeForShe DirectHer program, Film Independent’s Directing Lab, and their Fast Track program.

Her short film, HOW DOES IT START, world premiered at Sundance and (among other awards) won Best Narrative Short at Sarasota FF, and is being turned into a feature film. Her feature NO LIGHT & NO LAND ANYWHERE was theatrically released by Factory 25 and won a Special Jury Award at the LA Film Festival. Her second feature, HOW TO CHEAT, won Best Performance at LAFF, and won both Best Narrative and Best Acting at BendFilm. Her first film, A PLUS D, was released by IndiePix.

Sealey has a BA in Theatre Arts and Modern Dance from the University of California, Santa Cruz, and an MA from The Central School of Speech and Drama in London. She studied Shakespeare at The Royal Academy of Dramatic Art in London.

She was born in England and lives in Los Angeles with her family.

Be sure to check out the movie Friday!

Follow me on social media at @offthecrutch, or e-mail me at offthecrutch@gmail.com

Transcript

Travis: [00:00:00] Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Off the Crutch. My name is Travis Davis. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to mention Monday's episode I did with Allison early on. If you haven't checked it out yet, I highly recommend giving it a listen, especially if you're interested in writing or film. 

I don't usually release two episodes in one week, so it's a special treat. Now, if this is your first time tuning in, welcome! A little bit about me. I have spastic diplegious cerebral palsy, and this podcast for the past four years is all about raising awareness of the disability community by sharing stories of resilience and overcoming challenges. 

It's been an amazing journey connecting with others and amplifying voices within a community I'm [00:01:00] proud to be a part of. A couple weeks ago, I had the incredible opportunity to see an advanced screening of Disney's Out of My Mind, which is out on Disney Plus tomorrow. The film tells a story of a young girl with cerebral palsy who is non verbal. 

My guest today is Amber Sealey, the film's director. Out of My Mind is based on the best selling young adult novel of the same name and features Rosemary DeWitt, Luke Kirby, and Judith Light, with Jennifer Aniston voicing the inner thoughts of the lead character played by Phoebe Rae Taylor. This film resonated with me deeply. 

Not only have I faced similar challenges, but as someone who has been a classroom teacher, it struck a personal chord. What I loved about my last episode with Allison was hearing her passion for making a difference in the disability community through storytelling. Similarly, listening to Amber's thought process behind directing this movie gave me another perspective and even more motivation for [00:02:00] my own storytelling aspirations. 

I'd like to thank United Cerebral Palsy for connecting me with the movies marketing team and Disney for this great opportunity. I'm so excited to share this conversation with you. Enjoy my interview with Amber. Thank you so much for your time today, Amber. I appreciate it.  

Amber: Thank you. I'm happy to be here. 

Travis: So you grew up in Santa Fe?  

Amber: I did. Yeah. I was born in England, but my parents were hippies and they. Drove across the U. S. and then landed in Santa Fe. They were like, New Mexico is so cool. And so they landed in Santa Fe and that's where I grew up. And my mom still lives there. I go back, you know, three or four times a year. 

Travis: That's really cool. What about Santa Fe? Did you like growing up there?  

Amber: Oh God I mean, it's only with the perspective of adulthood, right that I can look back and like really appreciate as a kid I was like a dorky theater nerd. And so, you know, I was made fun of and stuff but Looking back. I see how special it was I mean, first of all, you just [00:03:00] can't beat the land and the sky and the you know I mean just you know the air there, the earth, it's just so, so magical and special. 

And, um, and so now I, I find myself longing for the views, you know, particularly the skies. I think the sunsets, the clouds, the thunder rainstorms, like it just really, I think it has a perfect season for every season. You know, you have a perfect summer, perfect winter, perfect fall, like you're idyllic, what you imagine of each season. 

Um, but I also really appreciated the kind of dedication to art and community. Um, again, like I didn't know any different growing up, but now as an adult, having experienced other cities. Um, in other countries, I really, um, appreciate the kind of loving, easy way of life that, that Santa Fe has.  

Travis: That's really cool. 

When you were growing up, did [00:04:00] you want to be a director or be involved with film?  

Amber: You know, I didn't because I didn't really I didn't see any examples of women directors. I didn't You know all the household names of you know, movie directors were male That, that, you know, at least coming to Santa, you know, back then there wasn't the film industry that was very big in New Mexico as there is now. 

Um, and so I didn't really see examples of women doing this job. So I, you know, I, it's kind of a out of sight, out of mind kind of thing. I don't know. I didn't really think that I could. But I also, at the time, was really interested in being a performer. So I, you know, started acting and dancing from age five. 

And it was the first thing that I was good at as a kid. Like, I wasn't really a great student. I was, I didn't really, you know, excel in any particular area except when it came to acting and writing and creating. And I guess because it was the only thing I [00:05:00] was good at, I sort of went down that path. And it wasn't really until you know, Um, later on in life when I had been a working actor for a while, when I realized I was like, wait, I, I want to write and I want to direct. 

And so I started dabbling in, in directing. I was living in London at the time, and I was working with this theater company, and I got very inspired by the dogma film movement that was going on in Europe. And. I guess at the same time the mumblecore movement was starting here in the States, but I wasn't here at the time. 

But I was like, Oh wow, you don't need, you know, I, cause I didn't come from Hollywood and so I, I didn't realize like, Oh, you could just grab a camera and you know, the digital age really like opened things up for me. Um, and so I thought, wow, I, I, I want to try this and, and I made my first film and just fell in love. 

And I was like, Oh, this is what. I was meant to do. I have my do not disturb thing turned on and it still disturbs me. I need help with my computer. I don't know. I'm sorry if the dings come through. I'm trying to, [00:06:00] I don't know why it says do not disturb, but the text still come in anyway. Um, point is, I love directing and writing and it wasn't really until I was about, I don't know, uh, my late twenties, early thirties that I figured out I could do it. 

So I guess I was a late bloomer. Okay.  

Travis: Well, that's, that's a really cool story. Now, a lot of times people don't know what they want to get involved in at an early age and just takes a lot of trial and error and, and just getting involved with things and just. the evolution, uh, as a person. So  

Amber: I think, I mean, I love like the story of like the 60, 70, 80 year old who discovers what they want to do and what they were meant to do. 

I think that's so cool. And I think people have different phases in life when they're interested in different things and they want to try different things. And yeah, we have hopefully a long life where we [00:07:00] get to dabble in a lot of areas, you know?  

Travis: Yeah. I think there's phases where you're reinventing yourself. 

And. You know, five, 10 years, you're doing this. And then another five, 10 years, you're doing something else, or you're in your sixties or seventies, you come to a point where you realize. You found something that you really want to do with your life, or you're meant to do.  

Amber: Yeah. Yeah. I feel really lucky to have found this. 

Cause I think, I mean, who knows? Talk to me in 20 years, but I think I want to do this forever. I can't ever imagine wanting to stop. It's so So fun.  

Travis: How did the project of out of my mind come to you?  

Amber: Well, you know, so as often happens with films, it takes quite a while to make a movie, you know, the producers Optioned the book. 

I think I don't know good eight ten years before I was attached it came to me [00:08:00] Through my reps just like kind of normal boring way The script was written by Daniel Stiepelman, and it came to me. And my first thought when I got it was like, this is such a beautiful, important story, but because I don't have lived experience with cerebral palsy, I thought, I don't think I'm The right person to tell this story. 

Um, but I just loved it so much and I felt like it was so important and I, I want it, you know, I wanted to be involved. Um, and then I realized that I, you know, my way in was actually through the parents story. You know, I have had to fight for my kids to get what they. are legally entitled to for their, you know, learning differences. 

And, um, and it was so painful, you know, and so hard. And that was just like the tip of the iceberg of what some parents have to fight. You know, we, my family spent thousands and thousands of dollars. struggling and fighting and years of time, you know, just trying to get my daughter who's dyslexic that, that, [00:09:00] you know, what the, the proper, um, instruction in order for her to just learn how to read, you know, and, um, and I thought, my God, this is nothing compared to what some families have to go through to get their kids to read. 

You know, um, whatever it is that they need in order to learn and be able to be, you know, participatory in, in class. Um, and so that was kind of my way in and I just. Fell in love with, you know, Melody and fell in love with Chuck and Diane that the whole family and I was like, okay, you know, and then I was lucky enough to get the job. 

And then it was sort of off to the races. You know, then I was like educating myself. And I mean, it was such a I consider myself really blessed and lucky to have gotten to direct this film. It, um, it's changed my life. It's changed my perspective. on how I view humanity, disability, accessibility, neurodiversity. 

Like, it's [00:10:00] really, like, I don't know if it caught a new lens or taken away a lens in front of my eyes, but it, it was a true gift to get to work on the film.  

Travis: So. You know, I had the opportunity to, see it a couple of weeks ago.  

Amber: Oh, good. Good.  

Travis: And so I have spastic diplegia and there's so much about the film. 

That I resonated with because even like my parents, you know, struggled with, um, the things that they wanted for me. And as I'm watching it, I'm like, man, I relate to that. I relate to that. Like, that's what I go through. And, and it, it's such, it has so many powerful themes that, you know, what did you find was like the hardest? 

Amber: Wow, that's a good question. I, um, you know, what was really, [00:11:00] well, let's see, I'll back up. So when I was, you know, just starting my research, We want to, I just want to call out this one book that was like the first book I read and maybe the most helpful is, uh, called Demystifying Disability by Emily Ledao. I think I'm pronouncing her last name correct. 

It was such a great book and so helpful and I think it was in that book I read, you know, one person with a disability is just that, one person with a disability. And so I was able to really embrace that, like, um, the concept of, I am not trying to speak for all disabilities or all people with disabilities. 

I, you know, we're really trying to tell Melody's story, um, and that's our interpretation of Melody, because obviously there's the book, and that's its own thing, and the character in the book is its own thing, and so, you know, we really had to embrace, who is this Melody that we all see, you know? We being me as the director and Phoebe as the actor and Daniel as the writer, you [00:12:00] know, um, and so it was, to me, it was most important that we were telling a very honest story of this one particular 12 year old girl who happens to have cerebral palsy and happens to be nonverbal and happens to use a wheelchair, but first and foremost, she's a human being who has thoughts and feelings and dreams and anxieties and a sense of humor and a sense of intellect, you know, all of these things, you know, That any human has, you know, to varying degrees and, and so it was most important to me that we were portraying her as a tween, like any other, you know, I mean, when we're 10 to 13, we're obsessed with our friends and our first crushes and popularity in school and all of that stuff and so that to me was like, well, that's what she's obsessed with, you know, she's not going to be obsessed with Her wheelchair, like she's had that her whole life, you know, that it's, that's just a part of her, part of her life. 

Um, so while, you know, her having a [00:13:00] disability is a large part of the story because it is a large part of how others relate to her, I felt like what was most important that we were trying to show was that she isn't just her disability. She is herself. She is her, as I said, her intellect, her sense of humor, her personality, her charm, you know, she is all of that. 

And so it was, it was about trying to show that what other people might see. Is the disability and what we want is for the people to see her as a human, you know, and, and, and see her personality shine. And that was all part of, um, you know, the, the finding her voice element. It's like a literal finding of her voice with the AAC device. 

And then it's a kind of metaphorical finding her voice in terms of what's on the inside, getting to come to the outside.  

Travis: Yeah, I think that's really great. And I'm curious, how did you go about, casting [00:14:00] Melody? 

Amber: Well, so we, we, it was a long, long process and, and it was like a global search, you know, Phoebe Ray Taylor is from England, um, and, You know, first of all, you have, you know, you have a casting director and the casting director, usually the norm is that you reach out to agencies and managers and you, you know, you find actors that sort of fit the character kind of age bracket. 

And, um, and so, you know, we did all of that. But in addition, it was very important to me to cast authentically to all of us on the filmmaking side to cast authentically, which meant somebody who actually had cerebral palsy and somebody who used a wheelchair and, you Um, and so we also reached out to, you know, CP organizations and disability rights organizations and, um, you know, people with CP and do you have a friend who also has CP, you know, do you know someone from say, uh, you know, physical therapy office or a doctor's office, you know, so, so it was a [00:15:00] very kind of grassroots, uh, outreach and we got amazing, uh, you know, video, um, submissions from around the world. 

You know, and that was also one of the most touching parts of the process was, you know, I had people who were, you know, 30 years old sending in video submissions saying, I know I'm too old for this, but I just had to put my, you know, my hat in the ring or whatever the expression is, because this book and, and I know this movie will be so important to me and to my family, you know, because I've lived with CP my whole life and I just want this movie to get made. 

And so, you know, we had so many, so many submissions. It was really, um. It was really special. I remember one, one young boy who was auditioning. He was 14 and he uses AAC to communicate. And he said, thank you so much. He said, you know, I don't care if I get a part or not in the film. He said, but I am so grateful that you're making this movie. 

I know that it would have [00:16:00] helped me so much when I was a kid. And like, I started crying and he started crying. It was like, so, and I was like, you're still a kid, you know, but it was like this. Yeah. 14 year old, you know, it was like, it was just really, really special. So the casting process was, you know, it's always hard to just pick one person, you know, because you end up loving so many people. 

But, um, Phoebe Ray just really shown Sean, how do you pronounce that word? Sometimes my British, I'm like, is it British accent? Um, but yeah, she really dined, uh, and, uh, and was just the perfect melody for us. Were there any. Particular like instances or, um, parts that were difficult to shoot. Hmm. Um, no, not really. 

I mean, it's always hard on set because there's just [00:17:00] so many moving parts and so many people and so many personalities. But I love being on set. I love, you know, because I used to be an actor. I love actors. I really like fall in love with all of my actors. And, um, all of them on this film or so not only talented, but smart and giving and thoughtful and kind. 

So it was really a beautiful, I think we all Wanted to be there. We all wanted, we knew how special this movie was and how important it was. And, and so there was no, um, you know, there were no, uh, with our cast, like, you know, sometimes I may not, I'm just imagining like sometimes I guess I've never actually been on a set where people didn't want to be there. 

I'm sort of, I'm kind of rambling a bit, but I, Yeah. This, this set felt really magical because, um, everyone wanted to be there so much and everyone was really committed to the authentic telling of [00:18:00] this story. So, so there wasn't really anything very challenging. I mean, equipment breaks and stuff and, you know, our techno crane didn't work properly, but that's, you know, that happens. 

Travis: Were there any parts of the book or Melody's story that you wished you could have included but couldn't because of time constraints or the narrative?  

Amber: For sure. I mean, it's always a challenge adapting a book, right? Because there's always, you know, there are always going to be parts that you love but don't necessarily fit. 

Um, there's one particular scene that, uh, I loved so much and was so important. I call it the headband scene and because of time constraints, it didn't make it in, but I, um, I don't know if we can, I'll send it to you and you can, you can see, I think as a teacher, you might really, I don't, I don't know. I'm curious to see what you would think of it, watching it. 

Um, Because it was another classroom scene, but it was when things really escalate in the classroom with, um, the character played by Willie, [00:19:00] who's, um, neurodiverse. And so, uh, yeah, I just, I mean, I love that scene so much and we didn't have time to include it, but, um, that was one that stood out for me. I would love to see that, um, and just provide my insight. 

Travis: I think that this film, at least for me, it gave me more motivation to keep doing the work that I do. Um, I was in Austin last week, or not last week, last month for the Austin Film Festival. And I, I went to college in Southern California and studied screenwriting and for a number of years, like growing up, I always wanted to tell stories with characters with disabilities because I'd never saw them when I was [00:20:00] late teens, early twenties, I, I just, I didn't see them in, in movies or TV shows. 

And my goal was to create characters and. No, I, I changed directions for a little bit and now it's become more prominent and it really feels like there's a bigger push to have characters with, um, disabilities, having writers, directors who have disabilities, and I'm just so grateful that things have changed is that what you've seen now versus I don't know, 10 or 15 years ago. 

Amber: Oh, for sure. I mean, it's definitely getting better. I don't think we're all the way there yet. I mean, it's, I think it's like 29 percent of the United States identifies as having a disability. So it is our largest minority. And I don't think we're anywhere near that [00:21:00] kind of representation on screen. You know, either, you know, on camera or behind the camera yet. 

Um, I do hope that this film will start to generate more of that conversation and there certainly are, you know, there are, um, studies that come out that talk about, you know, how many, uh, you know, in terms of diversity and all of its forms, you know, uh, how much of that is on screen and, and, you know, Off screen, but I, you know, we're not, we're not all the way there yet. 

So I think you should continue to write and continue to create characters, you know, both with and without disabilities and, um, and get us closer. You know, I, I do hope that this film inspires people to, um, to participate in, you know, again, whatever area it is that they want to participate in, but specifically if it's Hollywood and, and. 

They want to, uh, you know, if they are a person who identifies as having a disability and they want to write or act or direct, I hope they do, you know, and I hope that this film inspires them to do that. [00:22:00] So I love hearing that it, it made you kind of want to do more of that. That's really makes me fill with joy. 

So, yeah,  

Travis: 100%. I came back from. The Austin Film Festival with like a new fire. And then having watched your film, I was even more like on the fire that I, like, I, I want to get back into it. I want to, um, you know, work with other people and just get my. My story's out and then have that same reaction that those individuals with disabilities came to you with of, you know, it changed my life. 

It, you know, meant so much to me, like, that's the kind of impact that I want to have on other people. Um, because. You know, I feel like I've, I'm here on this earth for a reason and being able to use my voice and experiences to help other people with [00:23:00] disabilities and help other parents because I have that lived experience. 

So, I mean,  

Amber: And you're in a great place to do it because Albuquerque now, like, There are so many films and TV shows getting made there that there are really talented crew and, and actors and, you know, you're in a great place to kind of, I mean, you know, make it make a strong community there for yourself with filmmaking. 

Travis: Oh, thank you. Yes. Albuquerque. Definitely has grown a lot in that aspect and, you know, with Netflix and all the things that have happened, um, over the past, I don't know, 20 years or so, there's really been a, a boom. So you're absolutely right. There is a huge community here of folks that want to make a difference and see New Mexico grow as, uh, another film hub. 

Amber: Yeah. Yeah. I love that.  

Travis: Yeah, it's, [00:24:00] it's, it's great. And I, I've been able to, to just dip my toes in a little bit, um, in the, um, filmmaking community, but it's been about the past month or so that I've been re energized with desires to my stories out there and, you know, Impact the world in that way.  

Amber: I mean, and I have to say that we need it now more than ever, you know, this country having just elected a president who openly mocks people with disabilities. 

We, we need the stories by and about people with disabilities, um, that show them living full authentic lives. You know, I think it's really crucial right now to sort of engender empathy and kindness. You know, now more than ever,  

Travis: [00:25:00] what do you hope audiences, especially those who might be unfamiliar with disabilities take away from Melody's story? 

Amber: Just, just that what I was saying of just, you know, uh, moving through the world with more empathy, more kindness, you know, and curiosity. One of the things that I learned in making this film was the concept of presuming competence, which I really love. And again, it's like it shifted my perspective. My views, I just love that, that the idea of, you know, when you approach anybody, somebody, you know, a child, an adult, whomever it may be, that you approach them with curiosity and the presumption of competence rather than, uh, judging somebody by how they look, um, how they speak, um, how their body moves. 

You know, and making presumptions about their emotional state, their [00:26:00] intellect, their maturity, you know, all of that. Um, so I really hope that this, um, uh, makes people curious about, I guess, in a sense, just being more open minded, you know, and not judging a book by its cover, for lack of a better expression, but, you know, um, but makes people presume competence more often, you know? 

Travis: Mm hmm. Yeah. No. I think that's great. And as I mentioned before, there are parts of the movie that I really resonated with because it's what I live with on a daily basis. And, um, the competence, the, the kindness, um, you know, strangers going out of their way to be kind to me, but then also growing up, um, having difficult experiences like Melody did. 

So [00:27:00] I just think that Seeing that film helps me communicate my story better to other people who are unfamiliar with disabilities. And I think, yeah, I, I, it's great to see it from a different perspective, but then also realizing, like you also said earlier that one person's experience with a disability is just that. 

But if I can take bits and pieces from Melody's story and the film, and then I can show that with my words and my actions and my stories, I think that just makes, it, it helps get one step closer to like full inclusion and breaking down those barriers, because I I believe this film not only will have those types of conversation, but it'll go [00:28:00] deeper into, you know, helping people with disabilities, find employment, help it, and it's like, it, it, It opens up more conversations that, um, I think people may not necessarily think about before they watch the movie  

Amber: that just makes my eye. Oh, yeah, it just, I, I got chills. I, you know, obviously, uh, I mean, getting to make the movie. I know it changed Phoebe, our actress's life, you know, it's, and, and, and even if it just ends there and it's only changed her life, that's, that's Enough for me, but to hear that it could potentially bring, um, more understanding and potentially, uh, opening up the worlds of, of other people is really, um, I'm, I'm sounding very in eloquent right now. 

I'm sorry, but I, I just, it makes me feel [00:29:00] so, um, just grateful to have been a part of something that could potentially happen. mean so much to, to so many people. And it's, I don't mean to sound, um, I feel like I'm sort of patting myself on the back, which I really don't want to do because it's not about me. 

It's not about me. I, I feel really lucky to, um, to have gotten to work on this film, you know, to be a part of the story. And if it, if it helps one person or changes one person's life for the better, like, I will die happy. I'm like a dork right now. I don't know what I'm saying, but I think I hope you know what I mean. 

Travis: I, I do. I do. And, um, it is going to impact so many people. Um, in my opinion, again, this is this one person's opinion with a disability, but Uh, . I was so, uh, emotionally touched, um, by it.  

Amber: Did you cry? Did it make you cry?  

Travis: Um, [00:30:00] two minutes in. I couldn't stop. . 

Amber: I love crying when I watch movies, so I love if it makes other people cry. 

Travis: two, two minutes in, I, , I just, I lost it. , it was, it, it was, , one of the most, um. emotional movies that I've ever watched in my life. And I'm not, , exaggerating when I say that.  

Amber: Oh, that means so much. I love this conversation, Travis. Thank you. This is like, so I, for a minute there, I thought you were going to say, ah, no, I didn't cry. 

Travis: No, I, um, I've been Sharing with folks, , not spoiling the movie, but just sharing how much I think they're gonna take away from watching this movie, especially those that know me really well. And, um, I think it's gonna Deepen friendships with the people that I have because they can see from another person's perspective. 

Amber: Oh, I love that so much. [00:31:00] I love that. I love hearing your New Mexican accent come out every now and then too. It like makes me feel like home. 

Travis: Well, I'm glad that I can, um, provide a little piece of home through this interview.  

Amber: Yeah, you are. 

Travis: I'll end with this. What's next for you in terms of, the realm of advocacy or storytelling? Do you have any desire to make more films in this area?  

Amber: For sure. For sure. I mean, one thing that I will always do is have fully accessible sets moving forward. Um, that to see how easy and not expensive that was, was really just again, powerful, you know, to have it be fully accessible for not just our, you know, our cast that use wheelchairs, but our crew as well, who suddenly felt emboldened to say, Hey, you know, I've always, you know, Been afraid to mention this, but I actually, it really helps me if I get a certain screen that goes in front of the lens because, you know, I [00:32:00] have a disability with my eyes and I've never said that before on a job, you know, things like that. 

Um, but also, you know, representing the world as it is on screen. So as, you know, as we talked before, about 28, 29 percent of, you know, the United States having a disability to me. Um, that's, that's what you should see reflected back, you know, in terms of the casting and the storytelling. Um, and yeah, I mean, I think, like I said, this has just changed how I look at the world. 

I mean, I'm, I'm very, I'm a very big, I don't know if this is the right way of saying it, but an advocate for neurodiversity. Like, I'm really, I think neurodiversity is so cool. I, I, I'm, I actively seek out, Um, people with neurodiversity to, you know, befriend and work with and, um, and I just love looking at the world through a lens of, Oh, we [00:33:00] are all really different. 

We might be similar in certain ways in that we all have thoughts and feelings and we all need love and we all need attention and we all need care. But at the same time, our bodies and our brains all move and work very differently, you know, and that is fascinating to me. So I will never stop being interested in that. 

Um, but yeah, certainly I have other projects that, uh, that I have on my slate that, that, that. Center around people with disability and, and some that, you know, some that don't and, you know, but it, I will never, um, I will never make another film that doesn't in some way, um, um, hold the world as it is, which is that you can't. 

You can't have a world that exists without diversity, and that includes [00:34:00] disability. Does that make sense?  

Travis: It does. Yeah. I think that's the perfect way to end this interview.  

Amber: Thanks so much, Travis. This was such a, such a pleasure, and I hope to meet you in person one day. Next time I'm in New Mexico.  

Travis: That would be great. I would love to. It would be an honor.  

Amber: Awesome. Well, thank you.  

Travis: Thank you for tuning into today's show. Follow me on social media at off the crutch or email me at off the crutch at gmail. com. I would love to hear your comments, questions, or if you want to be on my podcast until next time, everybody take care.