Adult Siblings Versus...
Adult Siblings Versus...
Ep. 145: The Three-Seashell Problem (Demolition Man)
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This week the Siblings blast forward to the near future of San Angeles and revisit the very weird action film Demolition Man. Simon says: “follow and subscribe!”
Discussed:
Jason’s obsession with Simon’s hair!
Space Year 2032!
Rat Burgers!
Simon Phoenix has a fun day!
Slyvester Stallone: Everyman Action Hero!
The Museum of Loaded Firearms!
Baby Benjamin Bratt!
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Keep circulating the tapes.
Greetings and salutations. I'm your other co-host, Ariel Livorett.
SPEAKER_00Sorry.
SPEAKER_02I found a code. We're doing we're doing uh Sylvester Stallone today. We're doing probably the Sylvester Stallone movie that we watched the most. I think it's not even probably. I think it's definitely.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02We didn't watch any Rocky movies growing up.
SPEAKER_05No. Sylvester Stallone was not our action guy. I feel like every family probably has like a particular like action franchise that like kind of overshadowed other things. And it won this.
SPEAKER_02Whoever their dad liked more.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_02Uh, but today we're going to do I don't know. I don't know where this movie kind of falls in history. I feel like even though it did well, I feel it's kind of like a cult hit type of deal. Yeah. Where people talk about it like, oh yeah, that was great when I think about it. But then at the same time, Taco Bell had a big callback to this and the 25th anniversary of this movie, so who knows? But Demolition Man is what we're doing. Uh the not which is not only the Sylvester Stallone movie, it is also a Wesley Snipes movie. And I would argue that this is 100% Wesley Snipes movie, as in he kind of owns this movie.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_02Agreed. Uh so we're gonna talk about that, and we're probably gonna talk a little bit about another movie that came out the same year earlier, starring a different action hero that we did an episode on. Maybe talk a little bit about last action hero.
unknownHmm.
SPEAKER_02Sure. Just a kiss a little compare and contrast, considering this is a Still Owned versus Schwarzenegger situation.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah, we know who probably won.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Jurassic Park didn't open in October, so that was part of the that was part of the reason Demolition Man didn't didn't bomb. Uh but if you would like us to turn this into an action hero podcast, and let's face it, I'm just talking about the expendables podcast. We all know, we all know we want to do it. But if you want to let us know, you want to demand it, you can contact us via email at adult siblings vs. at gmail.com. We're on social media, uh various platforms at adult siblings vs. And except for Blue Sky, where we are Adult Siblings VS. Alright. Ariel, I think I remember you saying that this was your first R-rated movie, although we're that we can we might dispute that, but that seems to be your default assumption of what your first R-rated movie is. Can you tell me a little bit about your nostalgia for Demolition Man?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and and maybe because because I didn't because you brought up the police academy movies, which I think maybe I didn't necessarily like kind of recognize as such because they were comedies and also like and also like recorded off of like TV and probably got rid of like thwares.
SPEAKER_02Well, the first one was rated R. I actually don't think the rest of them were.
SPEAKER_05Oh, okay. So I feel like in in my mind, this was my my first uh rated R movie. Um and uh so like part of my nostalgia for this movie is just kind of feeling grown. And uh also uh I like I I remember like a lot of like I I remember like the toilet paper gag very well and uh Taco Vell uh versus Rat Burgers and uh a a lot of a lot of a lot of frozen butts and balls. Um but yeah, that was that that's kind of my nostalgia for this movie.
SPEAKER_02I feel like this is like the first sort of like action sci-fi movie that wasn't like Star Wars or wasn't like Back to the Future. That wasn't like a kid thing that first resonated with me, right? Like so I felt like this this made me feel like oh I'm getting older, I'm getting I'm understanding these uh new uh these these new types of action sci-fi movies. I'm getting I'm getting I'm getting an adult or whatever. I feel like I had the same um reaction with Escape from uh Escape from LA, which for some ungodly reason I watched before Escape from New York.
SPEAKER_05You know, I I watched uh Escape from New York, I think for the first time, relatively recently, like maybe last year or something.
SPEAKER_02Actually, I should I should mention this. This may not have been the first time that I saw Wesley Snipes, but this was definitely the like my favorite thing that he did until like well like before Blade.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_02And I was so enamored with Sy his Simon Phoenix that I had a habit of whenever I make a whenever I'm playing a role-playing game that takes place in like a future time, but you can make your own character, I tended to make Simon Phoenix.
SPEAKER_05I I I feel like I remember that happening, like watching you play games.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, uh, I did that with Mass Effect, and I think they did that with some wrestling stuff too now. I think about it. I think it was like a wrestling game. But that wasn't, but but Mass Effect and then Cyberpunk, the new Cyberpunk game that came out. I might actually have pictures of my character in that game, like as I was taking some screenshots. If I can find that, I might post them on our social media when this episode comes out. We'll see. Although for some reason I misremembered, I thought he had a mustache, but no, because all my characters have mustaches, because I was like, Because I think Bosie Sunshine normally has a mustache, so I usually saw I think I just got a little confused.
SPEAKER_05He has a spiritual mustache.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, um, let's talk about we're gonna talk about his hair a little bit more in a couple minutes. Um Demolition Man is a 1993 film directed by Michael Brembiola with a screenplay by Daniel Waters, Robert Renault, and Peter M. Lenkoff. Uh the budget for this movie apparently is contested a little bit because there was delay, there were delays in this movie, and that apparently caused the budget to go up. Wikipedia says somewhere between 45 and 77 million. The box office was 159 million dollars, which if we compare that to Last Action Hero, that's not a ton more than that movie, even though it's a notorious bomb. The difference, I think, is that apparently the total cost of Demolition Man marketing included was only 90 million dollars, which is only five million more than the base cost of Last Action Hero.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_02Without including the marketing, last action hero definitely makes more money, but then when you when you include the marketing, it's not even fucking close. Wow. Back in the day where you could make 159 million dollars and it be considered a profitable hit.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, times have changed.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, times have changed so many bombs this year that made so much fucking money.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's oh gosh, what a what a racket. There are so many systems that are broken, but like, yeah, the film industry is super broken.
SPEAKER_02This so this movie is actually the first appearance of Peter M. Lenkoff. Are y'all are you familiar with Lenkoff at all?
SPEAKER_05Uh not off the top of my head, no.
SPEAKER_02He's not famous in the area where you would be paying attention, um, really. But he eventually, after this movie, will become famous for doing several reboot TV shows on CBS, the showrunner for a bunch of things. So he was a showrunner for Hawaii 5.0, that reboot, the MacGyver reboot, a Magnum PI reboot. So he's actually done a lot of stuff recently. However, he also is very well known apparently for being a an extremely toxic boss. As uh Lucas Till, who Lucas Till, he was he played Havoc in uh X-Men First Class.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_02I know him best from uh a really, really good independent superhero movie called All Superheroes Must Die. So he is the title character in the Megaira reboot, and he says, complaining about this dude, this dude Lenkoff, is that he became suicidal because of Lenkoff's body shaming.
SPEAKER_04Oh fuck.
SPEAKER_02And like, you know, I don't want to be come off as being like sexist. I'm just responding in a world that's already sexist. When a guy like that is that fucked up to the male star, you know that shit's bad. Like, I don't even want to think about what happened to the female cast members.
SPEAKER_05Also, like fucking like you said that this was during like the McGyver movie?
SPEAKER_02The McGyver, the McGyver reboot.
SPEAKER_05How how how how fit like I mean like fit, sure, but like how how amazing does one's body have to be to be fucking MacGyver?
SPEAKER_02That's a question for for Lenkoff, I guess. Uh, he eventually gets fired from CBS because of all the allegations. So his career might be over now. But his career was just getting started with this movie because this was him fresh into Hollywood, right out of college, looking to break into the scene. He wrote the original script and he was inspired uh for Dead Lush and Man, he was inspired by Lethal Weapon, which seems a lot of that going around. Because if you recall, uh Last Action Hero was also inspired by Lethal Weapon. Um, but he was inspired by Lethal Weapon to make a movie about cops, and then at the time, which would have been like maybe late 80s, early 90s, maybe more late 80s, because it's like maybe this is five years beforehand, but uh there was like a the cryogenic craze that was kind of in popular in the in the in pop culture at the time. Last celebrities talking about wanted to be frozen so they could live forever. Apparently, that was like kind of a big thing at the time. And he apparently was and also the song Demolition Man by Sting, all these things blended together and caught and inspired him to make this script. A uh more or less a script about a a cop who goes to a future where crime is doesn't really exist anymore. Uh the script eventually fell in the hands of Warner Brothers, and then Daniel Waters was brought in to work on it. He rewrote it completely, so he ends up getting the main credit on this script. Uh his version was originally a pure action film, and he says that he was not trying to make any political statements and he wasn't trying to make any criticisms, criticisms toward political correctness, and says that he himself is more in the center, which history tells us means he's almost certainly lean's conservative, and this is 100% uh a send-up to uh how shitty political correctness is. He's the one that came out with the Seashell joke at some in some point in his later drafts, and apparently he finished the entire uh script in two and a half weeks. Just like bam.
SPEAKER_05So okay, then I I feel that.
SPEAKER_02But development of the film did take six years before they actually started filming, so it actually lit go on for a while. So Brambiel uh was brought in at some point in production, but he was kind of an interesting choice because he had done television, some big budget television, but he'd never directed a feature film before. And there was a little bit of pushback, but apparently um he ended up getting through pretty well. He got blamed by the studio for some of the delays, but uh we'll talk about that later. It wasn't necessarily his fault. He was originally working on direct like working on the Richie Rich movie.
SPEAKER_05Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_02Um, the one with Macaulay Calkin, but apparently it got hindered and it kind of fell temporarily fell apart, which freed him up to do this. Uh, he does not direct Richie Richie Rich, someone else does, so he does not get back to it. Um it fencer was the one that uh recommended him for this job. Now, originally, apparently, Steven Segal was tagged to play the lead in this film, but that apparently didn't work out. I'm not sure why. Uh possibly because God got involved. Because I guarantee you, I guarantee you that uh this movie would not be anywhere close to as well remembered or as successful as Steven Seagal was the lead.
SPEAKER_05I what what what is a popular Steven Seagal movie?
SPEAKER_02Uh you're asking the wrong guy. I'm slightly too young to to know about his proper big hits. All like whenever I think about a movie with him, I just think about him as a kind of like a hefty older guy just kind of waving his arms around and people doing backflips because they pretended to get hit by him.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. At this point, my biggest reference to him is the YouTuber uh Bobby Fingers uh making a diorama of him being like uh like judo slammed by I think it was a stunt guy. This is very funny.
SPEAKER_02Apparently, uh they also were interested in casting Jean-Claude Van Damme as Simon Phoenix. And he he he was offered the role, but he turned it down. Now I will say that Jean-Claude Van Damme would have been a very interesting choice to play Simon Phoenix in exactly the the correct mindset of who you should be casting for that sort of thing. Like a a person who you would traditionally think as a action hero and as a psychotic criminal sounds who goes against another action hero sounds quite fun. I think that was probably the the point of this movie initially. But he turned it down, so it didn't happen. Eventually they approached Sylvester Stallone uh for the for the lead, but he turned it down, but I guess he came back, he molded over and decided to come back to it and got kind of excited and invested in it. So he his choice to play Simon Phoenix was was Jackie Chan. So Jackie Chan was offered the role, and again, I think that's a very I think that is the type of of of role this that they're envisioning. You know, Jackie Chan and Jean-Claude Vatham are very specific types of action heroes at this time, like very physical. Chan turned it down uh because he wasn't interested in playing a villain.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I was gonna say, because listening to his uh his autobiography, like he was kind of still in the mode where like even like I feel like it's even like partially not necessarily like that he himself didn't want to, is that he had like a certain persona in in China and stuff that he did not play villains, and so he was kind of like kind of stuck in that mode for quite some time and and couldn't really uh change it.
SPEAKER_02He'd have he'd have to risk uh not having his base in China anymore. He'd have to like focus solely on on Hollywood, and this is '93. I don't think he's actually quite famous enough in Hollywood for that to be a gamble.
SPEAKER_05Oh no, like at this point in his career, he had been trying and failing to really get into like the US market and and get it into Hollywood. So you you couldn't depend on that for sure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so a couple years till Rush Hour, which is probably another movie that was inspired by Lethal Weapon.
SPEAKER_05Oh, yeah, yeah, probably.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so Wesley Snipes was the next person that they um considered, but uh he turned it down several times. A team of producers and writers had to actually go to the set of rising sun that he was filming to try to find and convince him to take the part. Wow. But apparently, Snipes and Stallone got along famously, they worked really well together and they had a good time and genuinely liked each other. That's nice. Lori Petty was hired to play Huxley, and apparently she had the opposite interaction with Stallone because there was apparently a big personality clash, and she quit just days into production.
SPEAKER_03Damn.
SPEAKER_02So Sandra Bullock, still relatively early in her Hollywood career. I think she's done she'd done some things. She had been in some movies, but uh she got cast from audition tape, so she's still sending audition tapes. So this is how where she is at this point.
SPEAKER_05But still fresh faced, all that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Oh, speaking of fresh faced, there's a guy we're gonna talk about who's really fresh faced in this movie.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh but uh but yeah, her audition tape apparently went over very well with the producer, so she ended up getting the job. The movie was delayed several times due to various factors, including the weather, Stallone getting injured, and several crew have having to unexpectedly leave. That is likely a huge reason why the budget had to get blown up a bit. Uh, it was supposed to be a 72-day shoot, it became a 112-day shoot.
SPEAKER_05So Taco Bell was not the original restaurant they were they uh envisioned for Pizza Hut or perhaps a combination Taco Bell and Pizza Hut.
SPEAKER_02Combination Taco Bells and Pizza Huts, I think were like still a year from being created. Uh no, in the original script it was Burger King. Uh but Burger King said no, don't use our brand. Then they went to McDonald's and they said no, don't use our brand. So they went to PepsiCo, who owned Taco Bell, and they're like, Yeah, that sounds great. Go ahead and use Taco Bell. And so they they did. However, it turns out that Taco Bell is not popular outside the United States. So no one outside of this country knows what the fuck Taco Bell is. So outside of US markets, they re-edited things, and including putting in added dialogue and replacing logos, they made it Pizza Hut. Since Pizza Hut is owned by PepsiCo as well at the time, it was very easy to set that up.
SPEAKER_05I will say, because that was my first guess.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. The film did well, but it received mixed reviews. It did spawn a video game in a pinball machine that I remember. I remember the pinball machine for Demolition Man.
SPEAKER_05Same.
SPEAKER_02So here's uh another snake eating its own tail moment. So this is what inspired basketball player and sometime actor Dennis Rodman to start dyeing his hair. Like he started dying it blonde to look like Simon Phoenix, and then he would become famous for dyeing it often.
SPEAKER_05Oh, that's funny.
SPEAKER_02So now here's the thing: Dennis Rodman was not in many movies, but he was in a movie called Double Team alongside Jean-Claude Van Damme. So, Jean-Claude Van Damme, who didn't want to play Simon Phoenix, did a movie with the guy who who much of his career uh was thanks to being inspired by Simon Phoenix.
SPEAKER_05Wow.
SPEAKER_02I'm very curious if they had conversations about this on set.
SPEAKER_05I I always have moments like that. I was like, do you think this ever came up? Yeah. Who knows?
SPEAKER_02It may not have, because like he didn't do it.
SPEAKER_05So like he Yeah, he didn't do it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, unless unless Rodman knew that he didn't get the get it, he probably wouldn't bring him up himself. And he probably by that point had was doing so many different colors that he probably people probably didn't even remember that he was that he was initially blind.
SPEAKER_05So yeah, he's probably like onto leopard print at this point.
SPEAKER_02Um I mean we could just watch the movie and find out, but I refuse. So there were plans to make a sequel uh to this movie. It's supposed to come out just a couple years later, but they waited too long and then they kind of felt the window closed. Around 2006, Dallone was asked about it, and he said that he felt that you know that ship had sailed. But uh apparently in 2020, he was asked again, and this time he said that the sequel was in development, which makes sense to me because if there's one thing that I can uh count on, is that older men feeling that they could still do the work of a younger man despite being very old and being more interested in proving that fact. So I can totally see like Stallone at like 70 saying that, whereas Stallone at like 50 is like, um I'm too old for that. This is too much.
SPEAKER_00I just want to take it easy. And 72 is like, yeah, I want to do that, I can do everything. You see my new show, I'm gonna play a gangster.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'm I'm not I'm never gonna die.
SPEAKER_02Uh uh by the way, I find that the the the guys who have this mindset the most tend to be conservatives. I'm not sure if there's some broader like issue at play there.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I I I feel like it's all tied up into you know cultural uh relationship with uh masculinity and the patriarchy.
SPEAKER_02Which this movie I feel is like trying to say what how great that is. You know, I feel like jumping ahead. This really feels like a very conservative leaning film. So you you not only have Sylvester Stallone in this film, but you also have Rob Schneider, and both of them have been pretty fucking outspoken about how much they like they love being conservatives and Republicans, especially Schneider. So Ario, I was trying to watch this film, but I ended up just uh getting some nosebleeds after trying to find some black people in the background. Cause uh I don't know if you saw I don't know if you saw Peacemaker, but I was getting some vibes. Peacemaker vibes in here.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh this is a classic example of uh a sci-fi future movie with like Asian aesthetic without Ashley having Asian characters, and I'm not counting the one Asian woman at uh Taco Bell who was just like for some reason subserviently standing in silence next to the table.
SPEAKER_02Well, anyway, I was dealing with uh brand aneurysm too much to finish watching this film, so can you tell your buddy what was going on?
SPEAKER_05Okay, here's what how happened was in Demolition Man. We s we start the movie in the in the semi-distant future of 1996.
SPEAKER_02Space year 1996.
SPEAKER_05Where things have really gotten uh bit of anarchy happening. Um, you have uh the criminal uh Simon Phoenix, who uh has apparently been, you know, plaguing Los Angel Angeles for quite some time, and he's like um captured a bunch of hostages and uh the kind of what special forces guy, police officer, special forces guy, John Spartan, who's kind of been maybe in a maybe in a similar way to Major Pain, kind of like the the the like mad dog that you send out to like do the business and like he'll get things done and he'll kill the bad guy, and so he gets the nickname the Demolition Man. And you can tell that there has been like a a back and forth between uh Simon Phoenix and uh and John Spartan for some time. They kind of they have a showdown in this abandoned building um that ends in like essentially blowing it up. He captures Phoenix thinking that um the hostages that Phoenix has stolen were not there, like he's hiding them somewhere else, and then they find out like, oh no, the hostages were definitely in there. Like 20 people have been killed because of like Spartan's negligence. So while they capture Phoenix, um Spartan is going to go to jail too for allowing this to happen. So in this distant future of 1996, they have a whole weird thing where they decide that it's uh more cost-effective to uh imprison people in cryo chambers uh and like rehabilitate them while they're in uh cryogenic stasis, and then and however, whatever your sentence is, you will be let out after you have uh presumably like you know uh uh reformed. And uh so in this case, I think he gets like 40 years or something that he's supposed to be in there. I I have no idea why they also do this for Phoenix. Like, this has gotta be expensive, and I I I do not understand why there would there would be this for like uh criminals like killing a bunch of people. We could assume that there's some influence going on there that we'll probably talk about later, but like it's it's still it's dumb. But cut to uh 2032, um um after the space year 2032. Yeah, they really it it's bonkers the way they act like this is so far in the future. There's so many things about this movie that like doesn't make sense. It's like this is not that long ago. There's so many people okay, yeah. So uh for some reason Phoenix is up for a parole, and uh so like this uh police cryogenic like um uh uh facility like let them out and they're like, Are you a good boy now? And he's like, uh I forget what the password is, but he like says the password to like let him out of his chains. Um his like honey bear? Yeah, so like honey bear or something. And like it uh and like he uh he's freed, and for some reason, like he's definitely so bad, not reformed. Uh, and he for some reason knows basically everything about the facility. He starts killing everyone and he gets away. And in this future, it's supposed to be like kind of a utopian kind of thing, good old San Angeles, and therefore there's no crime, and the police don't really know how to handle when people are actually starting shit. And so they decide the only way to fight a 90s criminal is to get a 90s cop because you need someone who's violent.
SPEAKER_02So was it send the maniac to catch a maniac or something like that?
SPEAKER_05Essentially, uh it's like we've uh we we we've say we've seen the Los Angeles tapes, that's what we need. Um we cannot we cannot all get along. Um but so they they they thaw out Spartan to um to basically hunt down Phoenix. Um meantime, you have like the officer uh Lenina Huxley, uh who is kind of ends up being kind of his point person, and and they have like uh a budding like romance and stuff. And basically the movie is Spartan hunting him down, realizing like how all of like who actually got uh Phoenix out, and like surprise, surprise, it's the evil leader. Um and also we learn about like a a total like underground society of people uh who um are are are choosing not to live in this like uh quote unquote utopian world, including Edgar friendly, which was the reason why uh Phoenix is brought back is technically to kill him, because you wanna you wanna kill the rebellious leader. Anyway, shenanigans happen, you have showdowns, action, action, rat burgers. The end.
SPEAKER_02Okay, before we uh get into it. Since you mentioned the rat burger, let me say it. Uh the fact that Spartan ate the ate the whole burger had a profound impact on me as a kid. Because like to me, that was like, wow, what an incredibly open-minded and good person. Like, this is like he he acknowledged it was good, he didn't stop eating it, and he ate the whole fucking thing. They'd make it a point to make sure that we knew he ate the whole goddamn thing, and there's like, wow, what a patron of justice and good this John Spartan is.
SPEAKER_05I really just thought it was like I bet it was just so much better than the crap at Taco Bell.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Like, that's the thing. Like, because sure, it's rat, but it's, you know, it's all it's it's fried up on the skillet and stuff. And like, I yeah, I I I bet it legitimately tastes so much better.
SPEAKER_02And and and I'm assuming that she's Mexican. Like, she was speaking Spanish and we're in and what the what's left of LA. So I'm assuming she was Mexican. So that was probably spiced pretty good.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Probably a lot of good seasoning on there.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, probably the only place in that town they can get things that are actually seasoned is uh Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Even though she's making a wrap burger, it's more authentic Mexican than Taco Bell.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And you really uh I mean, uh, I'm sure by the time this uh podcast comes out, you know, I'm sure things will have gotten figured out. But you know, we've had the whole thing about the the parasites and the produce and how like Taco Bell was like, we gotta we can't use our lettuce because we don't want to give anyone explosive diarrhea. We just want to give people our normal amount.
SPEAKER_01Normal diarrhea.
SPEAKER_05Like we don't want to give you like extra, so like, you know, we gotta be careful.
SPEAKER_02We wonder if you have diarrhea, not explosive diarrhea. We're not monsters.
SPEAKER_05I do remember being in college and like hanging out with a dude I liked watching like movies or something, and I had had uh I had had Taco Bell, and it did not agree with my stomach. And like I was it was a really sad time for me.
SPEAKER_01Rookie move.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, really. I wasn't I I didn't know how to date at the time, didn't know what I was doing.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Alright, so Rap Burger aside, I think the undisputed best thing about this movie is Wesley Snipes.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02This is Raul Julia in Street Fighter levels of I'm just gonna put it aga put everything on on the on the wall.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I I found myself legit like rooting for Phoenix just because he's just like he's so dynamic. And hey, he he didn't break out. He's just he's just going, he's he's just he's just doing his thing.
SPEAKER_02Apparently, uh Snipes wasn't like super interested in going to rehearsal that much. So but so a lot of the stuff that he says is ad lib. And I think this is one of those times where it was the correct decision.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Some sometimes when you when you have the when you have the right performer, they could probably, yeah, beef up a maybe mediocre script. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, especially if you're not if you're ignoring the script and just saying whatever you want. Yeah. But um, there's just like well first of all, Wussie Snipes has a shit ton of charisma that you kind of forget about if you haven't seen a Wussy Snipes movie for a while.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Simon says die.
SPEAKER_02Simon Phoenix here to me is like a Batman villain in a world where there's no Batman.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. He does not have a proper opponent.
SPEAKER_02I mean, like, I mean I get I get what the the dynamic between him and and Spartan is supposed to be. And I really like that dynamic actually between specifically like Stallone and Snipes playing off each other. I really liked that a lot. But yeah, I just kind of just thinking like, man, this guy should be like fighting Batman on top of a roof after robbing a bank and he's gonna get sent to Arkham.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. He he he does have some some nice manic laughter, some some definite Batman villain-esque cackling in this movie while he's reaping havoc and and and shooting a bunch of guns off.
SPEAKER_02There's something I never noticed uh before uh when I watched it this time, is that like for the first time we see Simon Fangs, he's actually snorting coke, like like cocaine, and and the reason I don't like that is that I feel like he should just be like that all the time. Like cocaine should not be should not be making him manic. It's just it should just be pumping in his veins.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02This actually lessens the character a little bit for me.
SPEAKER_05Honestly, I agree with that. He definitely sleeps like the kind of personality that is just like yeah, drugs not needed. This is I heaven heaven forbid I do drugs because this is already happening.
SPEAKER_02Simon says, don't do drugs. You know what? You go off. You go on, live your life. Have a good day. Really? No, I didn't say Simon says oh boy. Um, yeah, but like I enjoyed him a lot. I liked how just fucking just scenery chewing evil like he was, and it's like how psychic like cartoonishly psychotic he was. I love the idea. I mean like I don't love the writing that led to this, but I love the idea that he couldn't shoot the guy because he was brainwashed, so he literally just tossed his gun to his minion to have him do it. So simple.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah. I I I think it's so fun. I mean, he he is gifted so much from the absolute dumbass Raymond Cocteau, so he's kind of like the the weird evil leader of this uh town. Uh just it's just uh given such a such a gift, and like he's strolling around, for some reason, just knows everything about this future, and every every other person is just a little bitch, and so he just gets to like just fuck everyone up and just strolling around doing whatever and just having a grand old time. And it's like, what did I stay for him?
SPEAKER_02Uh there was a scene near the end of the movie where he was beating the shit out of out of uh um Stallone and it was like this is my this is the best day of my life.
SPEAKER_05It's a good time, you know. Got to have some some good times before before uh before the end.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's probably a real reason why they didn't have a sequel because Simon Phoenix definitely dies, and he dies very hard. Yeah. There's no falling to his death type of thing that you could work around.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, literally, yeah, literally very hard. Frozen and head and head came off.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and so without Simon Phoenix, what differentiates Demolition Man from other Stallone films?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Not much. So it's probably just as well they never made a sequel. But I will say if Simon Phoenix was fighting Batman, he probably would have just gone to Arkham. He could have been back in the sequel.
SPEAKER_05Very true, very true.
SPEAKER_02I don't want to say that Wesley Snipes is the only good thing in this movie. I'm gonna just say right now, I do feel that the two leads really carried me through this movie in a very um positive way. However, I cannot think of anything else positive to say about Demolition Man.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, here's the thing. I agree, Wesley Snipes is like super fun. Um, I and like and I I think what yeah, what's about what Sylvester Stallone is doing, like I I think he he portrays his character like very well.
SPEAKER_02Uh oh, and yeah, before you before you go into uh the criticism to jump in on that, I will say that I've I always preferred Stallone over Schwarzenegger as an action hero because Stallone always feels grounded. Yes, like Arl Schwarzenegger, despite not being that tall, always feels so larger than life. And it seems that no matter how fucking ripped Stallone is, or no matter how badass his character is, he always feels like just a guy in a situation.
SPEAKER_05Oh, 100%.
SPEAKER_02Um, and it's like I was I was thinking about this, is like if Schwarzenegger was playing a construction worker, I wouldn't be able to buy it. I just couldn't buy him as a construction worker. There's no reason I he couldn't be, but I just couldn't buy it. But Stallone, 100%. And it's like, oh, he's a construction worker who's now like fighting aliens. Yeah, makes sense.
SPEAKER_05I completely agree. Anytime they try, like a a movie tries to to make uh Schwarzenegger this like they try to portray him as just the everyman. I I never believe it. Like I never feel it. And yeah, I I I I think Stallone's New Yorker-ness and just like yeah, he he's very good at just like being a guy. Uh and it and I think for this it it works uh very well because it it helps add to the the contrast of this stupid fucking future and it makes it what is a really dumb and annoying premise, it makes it more fun because it's him and the way he reacts to to things are so like grounded and genuine, it makes it more fun than it has the right to be.
SPEAKER_02Okay, anyway, sorry I interrupted.
SPEAKER_05No, I I I think but like I I yes, we're I think we're on the same page that like these two uh make this movie uh better, but good god, this I okay. I'm I'm trying to think of like kind of where to start when it comes to like things that bother me about this movie. Well, first of all, uh this is a prime example of just like you know, once again to to quote the Fly of the Concords, the destined future, the year 2000. Like they have this scenario where you jump from 1996 to 2032.
SPEAKER_01Um which we are very close to.
SPEAKER_05Very close to. And the way people seem to like not know anything about the 90s and not understand what the 90s were, like, it makes no sense. Like the whole like the the way that the the the vernacular of the society have completely changed to the point where like they don't know any of like any colloquialisms from the 90s and like all this stuff, like there it's is it's it's 2036. There are so many people who are still alive like during that time from the 90s, like it doesn't make any sense. They could have easily simply made this farther in the future, but they chose not to, and it just and so like you have this weird thing where everyone is just like 90s, what what dat? And I know that there was like supposedly a thing that happened, an earthquake, I guess, and for some reason that seems to have done a lot. I don't know. Like it just like uh it's it's it's it's very annoying.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, there's there's a lot of weird things like that. Uh okay, so here's here's my thing. I think that and this ties into what you're saying, because it's because it's not just with that, it's with fucking everything. This movie makes a lot of choices that if they just slightly changed it, it would have been a really fucking good sat satire film. And one of the things is that like you know, like the the police chief, right? Or whatever his rank is, I think he's a captain. Like that guy is not young. That guy probably was alive in the 90s. Yes, like so, like, so it's weird that so it's weird. So, yes, this movie should have been at least a century in the future, maybe more. And everything would have made more sense 36 years ago, fashion was different, but the average person on the street basically still dressed the same as they do now. Yeah, like maybe some minor changes for your at for the average lady, since fem since women's clothes tend to be, you know, more interesting than men, right? But like if I got zapped to the past, I would look as I would not look out of place. Yeah, like the 36 years in the past.
SPEAKER_05You could still get jeans and a t-shirt. You could you could get by with wearing jeans and a t-shirt for many, many, many decades.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because like all the weird and like um like clothes that you see when they're talking about like oh the 70s and the 60s, that wasn't fucking everybody. That was just like that was just like the guys who were like really interested in fashion.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like, yeah, you wear bell bombs if you're going to the disco, but if you're just going to if you're just going to work, you're probably just gonna wear regular slacks.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, but also it is ludicrous. The the the the prologue is just all sorts of ludicrous. Like the the fact that we believe in three or four years LA will just be just based off of what we are seeing now. It's just gonna be a huge battleground, fire, gunfights all over the place. And it's just like um Why?
SPEAKER_05Like literally why.
SPEAKER_02I mean, like there's I guess they're saying like crime was so bad. Although it's so interesting because like the crime that that the type of people who are writing this would have been thinking of would have been like impoverished black men who have made gangs, so like you know, gang violence. Yeah, they're definitely thinking of gang wars, and yet the er example of criminal in 1996 is not anything like that. Yeah, this is a completely different type of criminal. Now, if if if Simon Phoenix was like a gangster-gangster type of person, which I don't think Jean-Claude Van Damme could have pulled off, by the way. Uh, then it maybe maybe it that'll make a little bit more sense. But it's still like how bad they thought LA was gonna be kind of to me suggests that subtle racism that you don't realize. Someone has to tell you, and then you could be either apologetic or defensive, depending on how racist you actually want to be.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Then like also, like, you know, exactly what John Spartan is, like what like the like the type of copy is, is this kind of also silly. For number one, based off my understanding of the police, I don't think he would have gone to jail.
SPEAKER_05Agreed. I am certain as well. We definitely live in a world where uh police officers get away with a lot of shit. And this is a scenario when he literally did not realize those people were there. And like, I yeah, I can't imagine. Like the the just like the way the the way that like I mean uh uh uh uh police the police protect their own and And I I yeah, I don't think he would have gone to jail for this.
SPEAKER_02I think he might have lost his job because he went in unauthorized. This is like him going on his own, being a rogue cop.
SPEAKER_05He probably still would have gotten like a pension and shit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, probably. Like it would not have been like a like a you're a disgraced. So, first of all, like we find out later in the movie that he was right. Because the thing was that he went in because he they couldn't find the heat signatures for the passengers and assumed that they weren't there. But then Simon, for some reason, just to taunt him, I guess, when he's about to kill him, reveals that he'd actually killed the passengers before them, and so they were never alive. And so so it means that Spartan was right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And do you mean to tell me, especially with how much the cops protect themselves, that no one in that whole process realized that those bodies um may have had other injuries besides just being blown up.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, like where where's where's where's the forensics people? Where's like you these like you you have like a whole like police morgue doing stuff. Like, I mean, yeah, so we're really we're really starting off on the wrong foot.
SPEAKER_02And and and if they couldn't find something, I bet they could have found something, if you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_05You know, yeah.
SPEAKER_02You're all saying the evidence suggests that's that uh the black guy did it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that is yeah, even even if there was nothing, the idea that they wouldn't find a way to blame it on him is uh yeah, unrealistic. Oh, the the poor the poor sweet policeman.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, I'm just saying like the this the idea of how why he like the the incident that would put him in jail in the first place seems silly. And of course, the idea of like being put into that cryogenic program also seems pretty ludicrous. But at this point, now we're now we're getting to like the this movie is fucking crazy.
SPEAKER_05So I mean the cryogenistasis thing, because it's like it's already weird they put Phoenix in it, and then he has all of like so many of his like like uh uh criminal buddies who also were put in it. Is anyone actually going to prison? Like, what is actually going on?
SPEAKER_02See, and this is one of the things I think they should have done. And they should have had a sequence when someone, maybe, maybe it's even um Cocteau, like a young Cocteau, goes to see Spartan while he's in prison and says, I want to make you an offer. Um, instead of being in prison for the rest of your life, if you agree to be in my in my special prison program, which I've gotten authorization to offer, you'll be crowdedly frozen and you'll be in there for 70 years, but you'll get to live your life after you're done. And is and he's like, Oh, I have from dark, I don't know, but it sounds pretty good. And then he does you know, you know, does it, and then it turns out that he did it with several people, had turns out he had the same conversation with Simon Phoenix, and then he later happens to take over so much of like the prison process that everyone starts going into that, or some sort of explanation, right? Because like the only way this could possibly make sense is if they've been freezing people for years, and this only takes place three years in the future, so there's no fucking way that that's been widespread enough for this.
SPEAKER_05I just I just don't see because like especially because once again, this includes like other like bad guy buddies of of of Phoenix who for some reason and this is like this has to be so expensive. And I and like looking at our prison system now that like so many prisons uh essentially use uh like the inmates as like modern day slaves to do all these different things, like so they're also like making a like a bunch of money off of the people in the prisons, like to for them to lose that and then spend however much money it costs to to keep these people in the cryogenic state, like it just it just doesn't make sense.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, unfortunately, this has gotta be a thing where we're gonna have to be like, okay, well it's it's they do it because it's fun. Right. Like like this is this is this is how we get the plot to move.
SPEAKER_05So so many butts. Also, like the the amount of shots of just like like we're having full-on scenes in these spaces where like right next to someone's head is just like someone's like frozen ass and balls just kind of hanging out, and you're like just trying to like not make direct eye contact with it. And it's like, why are we doing this? Why can't we do that? That's where the uh you literally they never have someone like you never see something like just facing someone's head. It's always it's always crotch shots.
SPEAKER_02This that's where the budget went. Yeah, you know, like like that the to that extra 30, the extra uh 30 million was to really replicate those those mannequins to have like the perfect shapes in silhouettes, the perfect scrotums.
SPEAKER_05Uh although I will say, uh, because you know the the kind of like um title sequence um that kind of shows it's this kind of the sweeping shot of of uh Spartan frozen in his tube thing. Uh and like we were wondering, because I was watching this with FM and we were wondering, like, because it's obviously some kind of like mannequin figure, obviously, in that shot. And we were wondering if if they had like enlisted like you know, like the Madame Tussaud's people or something to to make it, it just kind of gave that house a wax vibe.
SPEAKER_02I don't know, because like because it was in that block of fake ice, it didn't need to be super detailed, so it could have been something like way less, right?
SPEAKER_05Well, like that's the thing, because it was detailed in that sequence. Like when you're like going through the opening credits and it's just like, you know, like the camera's just like sweeping over every part of him, but it looked fake, and some was wondering what that thing was.
SPEAKER_02Maybe I missed some of that because I remember seeing it, I remember thinking like, oh, you can just quite not see his face, so it can be a mannequin. So I had like a different reaction. So maybe I just missed the shot. I am a very sleepy man.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it it might have been you like if you happen to be like checking something during the moments of like the opening titles, then you might have just not paid attention to it.
SPEAKER_02I uh you already kind of went over like the stuff about being in the future, so I don't want to like dwell too much on that, but I do want to also add just there's no even in the even if it took place in the future, this is the thing that just shouldn't have happened. There is no fucking way that the human race would be okay with not ever having sex.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh hum humanity is far too horny for that to work.
SPEAKER_05It's well, like, there's like a couple of things happening. Because like I feel like all of these rules are like happening relatively fast. Because like that's the thing. Because like the actual big change happened like 16 years ago. So even more recently, things were still probably relatively similar. Like, and so like there's it it really is dumb. And it's like, okay, no coffee, people are uh a hundred percent addicted to coffee, so like that's that that's that's also not gonna apply well. No alcohol, no salt, blah blah blah. It's like and then just like weird cyber sex, and like it just yeah, like it just like this is just not a lot of time. And how are you going to just go into like straight into you can't have like any of these substances at all so no kissing? Like, I just yeah, it is like how how you you wouldn't it just wouldn't work, like you wouldn't just have like uh an underground of rag type people. I do have a question, but like, but yeah, you you get it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Do you what do you think so the story is taking place in uh the town of San Angelis, which is like a combination of Los Angeles, San Diego, Santa Barbara, like blah blah blah. What do you like what is what is is is is this shit just here? Like what do you think is happening in the rest of the world?
SPEAKER_02So I think it's very clear that this is just in this mega city.
SPEAKER_05That is crazy that people stay there.
SPEAKER_02Cocteau has repeatedly said that he is this he's the leader, he's the founder of their way of life, but he's repeatedly says that he's looking over the city. He doesn't say the country or the world, he says specifically the city. So that does imply that it's just this city, and if it's just this city, it does beg the question what the fuck is happening else in the rest of the world? Now we know there was apparently a massive earthquake, right? We know that that happened, and supposedly there was also like some huge chaos that was destroying the world, but that comes from Cocteau, so I'm not sure how much we can believe anything that he says to Spartan, but yeah, like they don't talk about the United States. I don't actually remember seeing any flags.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, like that that was a big thing for me because uh yes, the whole thing about how like it this definitely seems very centered on the city, and it definitely like I just I I really needed to know what was the state of the the rest of the country because this because like this this city is so extreme, and like I mean, are it's like are we having like a fucking like a like in the twisted metal show where like as soon as you leave the city's gates, it's complete pandemonium, or are the other cities actually normal and it's just like they're weird. Like I just yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, see, I have to assume that there's nowhere else to go, or at least going somewhere else is very hard, because I don't believe that the sheer amount of people would live in in in the underground if they could just leave and go somewhere else, someplace else. Like, could they just go to Oakland and then everything would be okay?
SPEAKER_05Well, like maybe that in like you know, the immediate area, but yeah, yeah, sure, sure.
SPEAKER_02Um, so I assume that there's not any place that they can reasonably get to. But yeah, I had no idea. Maybe that would have been what the what the uh sequels would have would have died into.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, because it's it because like now it's it's it's sad because like now watching it, it is like, well, like I've been through like a a world shattering uh like global incident where like many, many, many people died, and like we're essentially the same. So yeah, fuck this.
SPEAKER_02Some of us went crazy, is all. Yeah, but like a sizable amount of the population literally lost their minds and have never gotten them back.
SPEAKER_05But we still know the names of like we know the songs from the 90s still. We don't just do jinkles. Although I did find it funny, because there were there were some future things. It was just like, you know, it's like, well, we're we we have we have gotten there in some ways. A lot of zoom calls happening.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Uh we we got we got the self-driving car now.
SPEAKER_02Well, kind of. The self-driving car is still a bit away from being practical.
SPEAKER_05But but they exist and people use it. Her parents definitely uh use uh she she told me that they they use the self-driving car to drive like to their home.
SPEAKER_02Um no, yeah, they they definitely exist. There's there there was a lot of self-driving cabs driving around in the last time I went to San Francisco.
SPEAKER_05Oh yes. Yeah, I I found that so terrifying. Like I can't, I can't I I could not imagine uh being in a car that was driving itself. I don't well, I don't I don't use clamshells, but I do have a tushy. So I I can kind of I can kind of get them on that regard. Many people do have bidets. Why don't any of them use a bidet?
SPEAKER_02Okay, so here's so I looked into this. They never say what the three C shells are.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, they don't they don't say how to use it. They don't yeah.
SPEAKER_02But I I looked it up to see if there was any like prevailing theories, and apparently two that came up very quickly were it's some sort of futuristic uh bidet, which I actually think could make sense because for all for all we know, if you just press down on it, then the wire would shoot up from the toilet and he just didn't understand. But the clam the clamping and scraping method is the other is the other theory.
SPEAKER_05It's like it's like what's like what what would you be doing with it? Like what's what's the next step to that? What's the next step of clam ass?
SPEAKER_01Uh you shouldn't you shouldn't have to risk your risk your life trying to to wipe your butt.
SPEAKER_05Horrible future. No one no one wants to explain that cut, you know, like gosh, what a bummer.
SPEAKER_02Um I don't want to go super deep into every single aspect of it because we'd be here all day, but I do want to I do want to touch on the um the fact that this is obviously a send up of PC culture, and I want to focus specifically on, and this is how I know is I want to focus on the police, how the police are portrayed in this film. That's one of the most one of the least realistic aspects is that the police aren't a bunch of thugs. You know, like the police seem to only be there to wave fingers, right? And thus they are completely unable to handle any sort of actual crime. I I guess that's the reason that um Dennis Leary's been been running around because the police faint at the sight of him.
SPEAKER_05Once again, too too early for that. Like you you would still have like fascist enforcement happening because you would still be getting pushback for these things.
SPEAKER_02Well, like the point I'm trying to get to here is that I feel that this movie is explicitly trying to tell us that see what happens when you don't have fascists running the police department is terrible. That we need a guy who went to prison for going against orders. He that's the guy who will save the police department.
SPEAKER_05It's always amazing when like stories will like uh create a convoluted scenario to make a point where it's just like you can't make a point of a thing, like you you you you created the thing, and then it's like you it's like when you like create the problem to give the solution, and it's just like you you you constructed this scenario, this doesn't prove anything.
SPEAKER_02Oh, and I guess one thing, uh, and then I want to don't want to dive too deep into characters, but I want to touch on the characters, but one thing I'll mention, if you have something else to add, you can't say anything. I don't I'm not dictating what you can and cannot do in this podcast. There's no fucking goddamn tap dancing way that a museum would have a bunch of guns with live ammunition.
SPEAKER_05That's all I wanted to talk about.
SPEAKER_02It's like it is ludicrous that Time Phoenix it becomes so heavily armed and he gets a he he's able to escape from the trap by shooting a cannon, which was also active.
SPEAKER_05That would have like someone would have had to like the museum would have had to put like fucking gunpowder in that bad boy and have it ready to go.
SPEAKER_02There had to have been a better explanation to how Simon got his guns.
SPEAKER_05Sweet baby Jane. That crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy. Like, yeah, just the idea like, yeah. It's like the I like I'm I'm thinking of like the times that like I have uh you know gone to museums that have like uh firearms. Like, like for instance, you know, like going to like uh I I guess like Tower of London or whatever, and they have like a display of like old armor and like old weapons, and like I think of uh either there or maybe some other museum, like eventually you get kind of like old-timey firearms. And like, yeah, the idea is like it's like we're also gonna have the ammunition over here, all like all in working order, it's fine. Like, yeah, to the point where even the the the the little above shot of like old LA and how like the fire hydrant it's still connected to water, like who whose idea was fucking that? That you could like knock off the fire hydrant and have the water gush out. Why would you do that?
SPEAKER_02Cocktail.
SPEAKER_05I mean, think of it. Imagine like um uh so in Detroit, there's like the Detroit Historical Museum, and uh there is a part of it where uh you you walk down Woodward, and the further you walk down the street, you go further back in time. And I actually find it very creepy, uh, but uh it but like I'm just like imagining like all of a sudden like you could like have all these things that are like actively functional. It's like this does not make any sense. Like the butcher that's at the end like has like actual sharpened knives or something. Although that's actually starting to sound like a pretty good horror movie.
SPEAKER_02Uh there's a smaller similar type of exhibit at the field. So it's Museum of Science and Industries. Oh, yes, yeah, you're right in Chicago. Um but but it it I believe it's it is smaller. Yeah, yeah. I haven't been to the Detroit one in an in some time.
SPEAKER_05Yes, it it the the one at the uh science and industry is smaller. But they have a Nickelodeon there, and that is uh Oh, they sure do. Yeah, that is more interesting.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Can you talk about characters really fast? Yes. Okay. Um I don't need to go through every single character. I feel like uh the one thing I didn't say about Spartan is that as much as I like Stallone, I think Spartan is very wrong. Like he's very wrong all the time.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_02About like how things are, and he is he does the Harrison Ford thing of like doesn't wait for consent for what he puts when he puts his mouth on another person. Yeah, that's and I want to make sure that I establish that I understand that that happens and it's bad. So this is a pretty sexist movie without being super overtly sexist, except for the scene where this is a naked woman for literally no reason.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, what the fuck? And how how was that even in in in this world in this sexist sexless world? Wha why why is there even like a thing where like you you're doing like a random naked phone call? Like, I mean, I uh it's stupid. I I I hate I hate action movies and they're just random, gratuitous tits where they're just like, I mean, we gotta have a tit. It's got it it. I don't it doesn't matter why, but it's like we we gotta hit our tit quota.
SPEAKER_02I would like to have a little better context instead of just being like, oh, there's a naked lady there, or even like a naked lady gets her clothes ripped off by some sort of creature. I also don't like that either.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, no, because it's all like it's literally tit quota.
SPEAKER_02I only like nudity when it's like consensually sexual in nature. Any other type of nudity in a movie I get uncomfortable with, especially when I know the movie wants me to think it's sexy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05It it's just fucking dumb. But yeah, um, it like it is it is a good, yeah, it is a good example of that weird thing where it's just like, oh, like manly man who just does what he wants and doesn't take no for an answer and bulldozes everyone, and that's I'm into that. It's just like okay, cool.
SPEAKER_02Huxley is a hundred percent right in the way that she treats Spart Spartan and like tells her to tell him to get up out of the out of her apartment. Yeah. The movie kind of frames her as looking like uh almost like a cartoonist prune.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_02Which is ridiculous. But she was right. He went farther than she was comfortable with and didn't seem to be interested in stopping. And so she said, like, yo, get out of my room, get out of my apartment.
SPEAKER_05And honestly, good for her, because like, I mean, like, I mean, in some way because she seems so like naive and stuff, it really is good for her to be like stand her ground and be like, Yeah, get out of here. Her rump. Like, yeah.
SPEAKER_02The movie definitely makes it it's like the oh, she just needs a good dick and and then she'll be fine.
SPEAKER_05Some some fluid exchange, as it were.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, by the way, I don't like where Spartan is on this conversation, but I do like when she says kissing is illegal, he was he was just like, damn, I was a good kisser. Yeah, yeah, that that I I should also probably mention that it's weird that he's so ready to move on from his wife when his point of view he just saw her.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Cause like so this is like interesting when he's kind of talking about his experience in stasis, where he wasn't he it it it was it wasn't this is simply like he went under and it was instantly awake. He he did say that he had like flashes of what was happening, including flashes of his like wife crying over his frozen body. And so like, yeah, that's that's and and not being able to do anything about it. And so it's like, yeah, that that seems that seems like that should have more weight than it does considering that you've been out and about for like a couple of hours.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And then also the fact that he does not seem interested in finding his daughter.
SPEAKER_05If if if there was more to that because like I could understand that kind of like at first where like the circumstances of like what how like you know, him being like imprisoned in this thing and and and this world and worrying about like who who she has grown up to be and and what what he might think of him considering the way everyone else is reacting to him. But they don't really go into any of that, so it's just like yeah. Uh honestly, they they they just shouldn't have bothered having him like have a daughter because it doesn't mean anything.
SPEAKER_02So the daughter actually was supposed to be in the original script. Oh, see, they actually cut her out, and I think the mentions of her is lingering stuff that just kind of made it to filming. She was supposed to be one of the underground people. Interesting. Um, but they cut it out for ca uh for time, I think, and let's make it less complicated. Okay. Let's move on really fast. Uh uh, I because I because there's a couple people I just I feel like I would have to hit on. Sandra Bullock is okay in this movie. She's not this is kind of like a Cameron Diaz situation, like we had in The Mask, where like I I know that she is capable of doing more for a role this light.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But maybe not in 1992, right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. It is interesting going through this, because like also in that category, it's like, you know, uh like uh Star Wars prequels, Natalie Portman, in a similar way, where like you know, she will be able to act better, but she doesn't know how to to deal with a shitty script.
SPEAKER_02Senator Book does not have that here.
SPEAKER_05She's not there yet.
SPEAKER_02Although I do think that there is an interesting character buried somewhere in there, and if they were actually interested in making her a fuller character, it would have they they would have had what they needed to work with. They just didn't.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. She's a big nothing burger.
SPEAKER_02I want to mention Dennis Leary, who, as far as I could as an asshole?
SPEAKER_05Yes, it's sorry. Oh, sorry, go on. What what is he?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Uh he was hired just to be Dennis Leary. Like that, like that was they they wanted him to do a Dennis Leary rant. Somehow, someone wanted to, and he does. And it's actually kind of stupid. I didn't really like appreciate it before this because I didn't know Dennis Leary at all growing up, and it was only like a couple years after this that I started seeing him and stuff, and it clicked with me as like, wait, is that that guy from Demolition Man without a beard? But his rant doesn't fit in with it feels it feels kind of like out of like doesn't fit in with what what's going on in that moment and the stuff that he's saying doesn't make sense for the society that he lives in. Yeah. Which also makes you wonder why is it that underground people still shake still like seem to remember the 90s, you know? Like it's Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Cause like, yeah, like what is he like I mean he he's like in his 30s? Probably yeah, about so in theory he if the timeline is confusing, but in theory, like uh he would not have experienced these things in a normal way above ground, and he's definitely talking about it like his favorite diner up above was closed and he remembers when. Like it it doesn't make sense.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Trivia, even though they hired him to do a Dennis Leary rant, he had to get massive, he had massive amounts of like approval for his final rant. Apparently, he had to he would write one, take it to the producers, and they would send it back, and then he had to fix it and then send it back, and then they back and forth for some time. Uh that's how you know, that's how you uh know it's good comedy because it's by committee. And then uh Rob Schneider's in this movie, he doesn't do fuck all. He doesn't need to be in this movie, but I do think it's important to point him out because he will eventually in a couple years from this movie, he'll uh reunite with Stallone in Judge Dread, where he is promoted to proper sidekick.
SPEAKER_05I feel like uh Rob Schneider's character is just I think the character's name is like Tyler in the Beverly Hillbillies movie. Yeah. And it's just like, well, this is just this is this is just your Beverly Hillbillies.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And then I just want to mention Benjamin Bratt, who's in this movie. Baby Bratt! He he is a baby. He's like he doesn't just he's not it's not just a clean shaven, he's just looks so fucking young. I think this might be before Law and Order, even. So it is just so weird to see. I just saw him in Andor. I know. Or he's right, so it's just like looking looking at this, and it's like, man, that guy, he's aged well. Yeah, yeah, he's he's like he's like he's a handsome, he's a handsome old man.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and like it's so funny because like when you get to the end and he's just kind of like you randomly you realize that he's kind of just like randomly like sided with uh the underground people, and he's like so cute in his little his little like underground like outfit and blah blah blah, and it's like oh, aren't you so sweet? Did you're like your your new boyfriend like give you like a tattoo? Like you're just so sweet.
SPEAKER_02Uh number one, there must be something in the air, right? Something in the air makes you remember the 90s, and then he remembered the 90s and he changed his outfit. Number two, number two, uh his character Garcia should have been in the movie more.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you know, when the movie started, I was like, oh, like, well, one, oh, it's Benjamin Brett. And then two, I was like, oh, is there like a plot where he was like Huxley's like boyfriend or something? And I kept like thinking that there was gonna be more of him, but like, no, no, he's just kinda just kind of there.
SPEAKER_02No, he he should have been in the movie. He should have been the guy who completely doesn't believe in Spartan until but then gradually he becomes his hero. Yeah, right. Like by the end, that's what his role should have been. And I do not understand why Huxley was invited to Taco Bell and he wasn't, because Garcia and Huxley do exactly the same amount of work in the scene in the museum, and that is nothing, but he did not get invited to Taco Bell and doesn't even seem to notice he doesn't get invited to Taco Bell. He's just standing there while Huxley is like bouncing off the ground, like ooh, Taco Bell, Taco Bell.
SPEAKER_05Gosh.
SPEAKER_02Also, Jesse Ventura is somewhere in this movie. I didn't see him.
SPEAKER_05Oh, uh he's he's he's one uh he's uh uh I believe one of like the underground hooligans. Yeah, he's only like he's he's there for a second. I don't think he says anything.
SPEAKER_02Uh yeah, yeah. I mean he he that must be where he is. There's like no other okay. Um anything anything else from of characters before yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Two two things. Uh one, shout out to Bill Cobbs. Uh he plays uh the character uh Zachary Lamb when he's aged. So like Zachary is this like little character, like at the beginning of the movie in the 90s, uh he's like a pilot uh who like Spartan like kind of uh drops from the the the plane to like you know do this this whole rasbataz with Phoenix. And so you find out in the future that you know Zachary's still kicking and he's on the force and he he gets to probably play w uh one variation of probably many where he's kind of that uh that like mystical magical black man. He seems to be the only living person who seems to remember what the 90s was. Um and so it he remembers Spartan. Um and yeah, and like so he's like the only like normal person for some reason, and like and it's just it once again, just like the writing is dumb. But yeah, shout out Bo Cobbs, cool guy. He's the guy that you'll go, like, it's that guy from things, yeah. And then uh had a random, like, holy shit, another movie that has like uh an early sighting of Jack Black.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, you know, I saw his name in like the cast page on Wikipedia, and I completely missed him. I did not know see him at all.
SPEAKER_05We saw him. It like so he's he's he's he's one of the underground people, just like off to the side at one point, and we had a moment where uh FM was like, was that just Jack Black? And then like, you know, gets another a little shot of him, and just like holy fuck, looked it up. Yeah, that's another uh I feel like uh between like this and like uh Waterworld, just really Yeah.
SPEAKER_02How many dystopian future movies was he just like background character in?
SPEAKER_05So funny. But I I I guess that's kind of it for me. Oh, oh, no, wait, oh sorry. Uh the other one was Associate Bob. So uh Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so this is Cocteau, which is Nigel Hawthorne, sorry. Nigel Hawthorne's Cocteau, blah blah. Uh but uh Associate Bob is played by Glenn Shaddocks, uh, who uh is like the interior designer guy uh from Beetlejuice and essentially playing the same character, you know, you you half expect him to start dancing to Deo at like any second. The the banana song, I should say.
SPEAKER_02Right. We probably talked about this before, but this is a very sad ending to his life.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But hey, he's like got hurt on on a job and uh is a bit immobile and apparently had an accident at home that he probably would not have had if he hadn't hurt his foot or his leg or whatever it was. So that's a bummer.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but I I see you and I acknowledge you, Glenn Shaddocks doing your uh sidekick thing.
SPEAKER_02Cocteau's plan is really dumb. There's no reason even the idea that that Phoenix was the person he picked, because he is a guy who would have been a fully formed adult when all that happened, and he's like, that's the guy I need, the most psychotic person with the highest civilian body count.
SPEAKER_05Oh, yeah, I'm so dumb. I do have opinions about this. Like, why would you give this outrageous psycho all the knowledge to do whatever he wants? Like that what like you know this person is completely unhinged, like a complete homicidal maniac, and you're just like, yeah, I'm just gonna enhance him. I'm gonna make it sure that he's unstoppable. For some reason he'll listen to me because I guess I'm awesome. So, like, why wouldn't he? And it's just like, what are you what are you doing? What the fuck? Okay, yeah. It's dumb.
SPEAKER_02Okay, it's dumb. It is okay, Arya. What would you give? Demolition, man. A thumbs up, a thumbs down, or a thumb somewhere in the middle?
SPEAKER_05Good question, Jason. I mean, probably thumbs down. Like, I I don't I don't really care for it. Um, it's not like it's not like the worst thing I saw, I've seen, but like the premise of it I just find so annoying that like even though I very much enjoy uh what Wesley Snipe is doing, like I just this this movie just really annoys me. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh I'm gonna give it a thumbs in the middle because even though I acknowledge that this is a very dumb movie and it doesn't make any fucking sense and has a lot of problems, I've really had fun watching this film. And and it's all because of like Snipes and Stallone, like like as a double act there. Like, I don't know if it was any other two actors if it would have worked the same, but I really enjoyed it. Uh but it's not a good movie. It's a movie that you have to like decide, okay, this is just a crazy world, that's why all this is happening, right? So um, this is not a recipe for a good thumbs up movie, but this is definitely a movie that I would have no problem watching again. Over yeah, I there's some movies we've watched that I was like, I don't need to say that again. I would watch this again for sure.
SPEAKER_05This also does seem like the kind of thing that I would watch with FM, so it might come up again.
SPEAKER_02It sounds like he's more of a Schwarzenegger guy.
SPEAKER_05That's that's true, maybe not. We we don't really we don't really get into much sly stuff, so maybe I'm okay.
SPEAKER_02Just watch Rocky, and then you get all the goodness. Watch Rocky and then watch Blade, and then you don't have to watch this.
SPEAKER_05Hell yeah. Although, can I just say, speaking of uh the whole one of the things in this movie is that uh the only music is old-timey jingles, and the sound levels were really wonky um for this movie, at least for for us. So I had subtitles on. All my childhood, I thought they were saying uh Arbor hot dogs, like hot dogs, armor hot dogs, and then watching it with subtitles. It's armor hot dogs, and I was really mad.
SPEAKER_02I had subtitles on and I because it's a salon movie, but uh, I I uh I was not paying attention to the lyrics of the jingles, I have to say.
SPEAKER_05I I used I used to sing along and I was singing along wrong, I guess, and I was mad.
SPEAKER_02Well, I mean, I mean that happens often for me. Anyway, I I have to get going, so let's wrap things up. Um next time we are going to be uh We're going straight straight this we're still yeah, we're still in the science fiction realm, uh but leaning more in the comedy and possibly more into the bad movies.
SPEAKER_04We're going straight to Wild Wild West.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we're going back to the Willennium and we're going to be checking out Wild Wild West, which if I recall correctly was Will Smith's film follow-up to Men in Black.
SPEAKER_05I think it's a great idea.
SPEAKER_02And Men in Black raised him to a much higher level of notoriety, and this is what he chose to do with it.
SPEAKER_05We we also get some some Kevin Klein.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_05And uh Double Kevin Klein. Oh, wait, what?
SPEAKER_02Kevin Klein plays two roles in that movie. Oh he plays because he plays Grant.
SPEAKER_05Oh.
SPEAKER_02President Grant.
SPEAKER_05Oh. Oh. We also get to see I think the reason our mom hates Kenneth Brenna.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I would have thought it was uh the self-importance, but okay.
SPEAKER_05You would think so. I feel like there's a lot of reasons to hate Kenneth Brenna, but I I think for our mom it's even this movie.
SPEAKER_02And also the cheating as well. Yeah, like that's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_05Like the like, I mean, if please please uh watch uh our episode when we get into uh much ado about nothing, so you can hear my rant. Like, no one puts Emma in a corner. But yeah, I'll I'll have to ask her if it's for sure this, but she definitely hates Kenneth Brennan.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, Wild Wild West next time. So there's gonna be a lot to talk about. Some s Kevin Smith will come up, I I promise. Oh, sure.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_02Our theme song was sell out by Zombie Apocalypse Now from the EP Forbidden Tales of Science. You can find that and more at antizommyrock.bandcap.com. Ariel, we gotta get going. Um but I guess I'll ask you a question. What would you do if you were thawed from crowded freezing in the far future of 36 years from now?
SPEAKER_05Well, um, I'm gonna go straight to the museum and pick up some guns. You know?
SPEAKER_02Yes. They will be they will be loaded and primed ready for you. Someone has to do maintenance on those things.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Like the by then the field museum would have for some reason acquired guns and I'm gonna take them.
SPEAKER_02That might be in the science of industry.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you're right. Yeah. But also take the time to do like the I'll do like the mine ride first, but then I'll pick up some guns.
SPEAKER_02Well, we're gonna contact uh the same cryogenic labs that the billionaires think they can use to live forever and see if they'll take any uh walk-ins. Uh, but uh until next time, as always, please do not put a gray stock in your time.