Adult Siblings Versus...
Adult Siblings Versus...
Ep. 148: Accidental Tim Curry Tribute (Disney’s The Three Musketeers)
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
One of the greats, and one of our all-time favorites, Tim Curry passed away…and the Siblings just so happened to have had “The Three Musketeers” on the schedule beforehand. So…Rest in Peace, Tim. I wish we were doing a better movie.
Discussed:
Sorry about the movie choice, Tim!
The Three “Three Musketeers” Movies!
Book adaptation gone wrong!
D'Artagnan sucks!
Is Kiefer Sutherland too young?
Milady got done dirty!
The 8th Doctor?!
Contact us at adultsiblingsversus@gmail.com
TikTok: @adultsiblingsversus
Instagram: @adultsiblingsversus
Threads: @adultsiblingsversus
Bluesky: @adultsiblingsvs.bsky.social
Theme Song: “Sellout” by Zombie Apocalypse NOW!
https://antizombierock.bandcamp.com/
Who is Antoine DeRosé? What are "Gores"? The new podcast, World of Gore, will answer these questions and more. A new scripted show from your friends at Bagels and Fried Chicken, coming this Halloween season.
Keep circulating the tapes.
Welcome to adult first broadcast whether it's a first side of childhood roughly or two of the childhood.
SPEAKER_00And I'm your other co-host, Ariel Leverett.
SPEAKER_05Well, Ariel, uh, if people are seeing this episode like the the week it comes out, then uh they'll know that uh we lost Tim Curry a couple like a couple weeks ago.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Now we did not plan this in advance. I mean, like we did not say like, oh, let's let's do uh let's do a Tim Curry movie. We that was already in the books. We did not pick a Tim Curry movie to pay respects to one of our favorite actors. We just happened to have this on the list and then he died right before we recorded, which feels a little gruesome.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. It it it makes me think of uh another podcaster, Justin McElroy of the McElroy brothers, who has like a live stream thing that he has been doing, uh doing like old uh video games uh that had like Tim Curry as uh one of the main voice actors, and he called is like call like Curry Works or whatever, and he'd been doing that for weeks, and then Tim Curry is like always like in the thumbnail next to him, and then like Tim Curry died. It's like oh ah, but he had already been doing Tim Curry stuff.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I think if we were gonna do a Tim Curry tribute episode like on purpose, I think we'd be doing Clue, right? That seems like the more the the I mean, I mean, like we already did Rocky Horror Picture Show, so like but I feel like Clue.
SPEAKER_00Have we not done Clue?
SPEAKER_05No, we've not done Clue.
SPEAKER_00That is so funny because like god, Clue is my jam. I love Clue. Okay, no, I won't talk about because we haven't done it yet. So I'll I'll give my opinions on Clue whenever we do Clue. I love Clue.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, no, Clue is great. Clue is way better than it should be considering what it is. Yeah, um, but but uh I don't think we either of us would have would have been like, oh, what is the best movie to celebrate Tim Curry's career? How about Disney's the Three Musketeers?
SPEAKER_00How about Robert Townsend's uh Jackie's back? That's his best work.
SPEAKER_05So, you know, I don't know how Tim felt about this movie. If if he's looking down on us, he's I don't know if he's like shaking his head or what, but like I'm not super jazzed about this being the movie. Um, but it is what it is.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think it I think it's another example of just like Tim Curry was was was in a a lot of a lot of parts of our our childhood. So like, you know, this this was part of the our our kid Tim Curry cocktail, so yeah, I think it's very possible with with except of of like Frank Welker who's in everything.
SPEAKER_05Tim Curry, I think, might be our most reoccurring actor in our childhood. Like I can't I think I think of there's a bunch of movies where he's in. And also he was he played the villain in in Mighty Max, like the Mighty Max cartoon, which is a I think a very underrated cartoon that no one talks about anymore, but I think it's actually a really fantastic show.
SPEAKER_00Agreed. And I mean I was uh a Wild Thornberry's kid, and his his his Nigel Thornberry, that is just pro master work.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and like there's still like a bunch of movies that we could do featuring him.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05That's still that on the possible docket. Like that we've we've done a bunch of ones, and we still have more we can do. That's a lot of stuff. And there's movies we haven't seen that he's famously in, like that um Tom Cruise movie Legend, where he's the devil or something.
SPEAKER_00Yo, see, see here's the thing. So FM and his gang, his his movie, his movie club buddies, they were watching it, but um I um I'm currently being forced to stay up late because I'm in rehearsals and I hate it, but otherwise I go to bed early. And so a lot of times, unless it's something that I'm like really, really invested in, I do not stay up to like finish a movie with them. And they were watching Legend, which I'd never seen before, and I s I I stuck around long enough to at least see like the first scene or two with Devil Tim Curry, and I mean it is fucking amazing.
SPEAKER_05I think it'd be a fun episode to just watch that for the podcast without having watched it beforehand. Agreed, because like that's a major blind spot for for me and my Tim Curry uh knowledge.
SPEAKER_00But you can see Tom Cruise's Middletooth.
SPEAKER_05Oh, yeah, before he had the fixins. Yeah, yeah. Uh yeah, but we'll become we'll become SPs though if we talk about it.
SPEAKER_02Oh no.
SPEAKER_05I was just saying this because I I don't want uh this to be like two hours of us talking about how much we love Tim Curry just because this wasn't even what the episode was supposed to be about, and we've got we got you know talk about how much I just like Chris O'Donnell first. But like, you know. But I will say that I don't know if there is any single actor who had more of an impact on my childhood development as Tim Curry, despite just the ubiquitousness of him uh being around. I don't think he would have been a good Joker, and I'm glad that they replaced him with Mark Hamill. That's the only line of descent I'm going to throw at people because that's because like uh famously, I don't know if if you were aware of this, Ariel, but famously Tim Curry was originally cast to play the Joker in Batman the Animated series, and they changed their minds at some point and hired Mark Hamill instead.
SPEAKER_00I don't think I knew that, but I feel like that's a good example of like I uh you know I think things work out the way they should in some ways, because it's like, yeah, I I don't think that would have worked.
SPEAKER_05And yeah, there um right after Tim Curry died, a video of probably the Joker's first episode, uh sort of floating around like some footage for that with Tim Curry's version of the Joker. And it's if maybe if Mark Hamill had never done it, then it would be fine. But it's just like, you know, I just guys, I love Tim Curry, but let's not go around and saying, like, wow, Tim Curry should have been the Joker. This is like so good. Like, come on, like Mark Mark Hamill is the Joker. I don't care about Luke Skywalker, Mark Hamill's the Joker. Alright, you can email us at adult siblings vs. at gmail.com. Our social media is typically at adult siblings vs. and uh blue sky is adult siblings vs. Alright, Ariel. I will ask you what your nostalgia for Disney's the Three Musketeers is. But if you want to ignore that and just tell me about your nostalgia for Tim Curry, I'm not gonna blame you. But you can you can pick which one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'll I'll well uh I mean I think as far as like my nostalgia for the three Musketeers, I mean it's just I feel like it's it was just like uh one of those like easy access movies that we had. Um I feel like uh I do I do like you know kind of old-timey Renaissancey era something or something or other. I feel like um setting myself up to uh as an adult be very into rent fairs. Um there's a lot of like catchphrases from this movie that we incorporated, like us and our mom. Oh also like I did rewatch this um with our mom on uh on Labor Day. And there were like certain bits that I just like really, really loved. And like, you know how like nowadays everyone's just like ah, I saw the the coffee, the Starbust coffee in the frame, and blah blah blah. Well, my version of that was for this movie as a kid because at one point uh uh Athos is like sliding down a rope and here's a hole in his pants, and I remember always being like, There's a hole in his pants, and uh that was always very fun to me. Um, but yeah, and then I mean Tim Curry. Uh he's he's he he's got he's got some some good like one-liners, but he he isn't as uh deliciously evil as uh he is in other things, so like it's a little it's not like Ma Fave, but like um He has his moments. Yeah, he has his moments, I agree.
SPEAKER_05Yeah We can maybe talk about that later.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but but uh but uh but like I feel like you know as a kid obviously my top Tim Curry thing is is is uh you know Muppa Treasure Island Tim Curry. I think if I had to choose the most important Tim Curry thing from my childhood, I think kid me would say that. And maybe second, maybe because this also like I feel like I need to rewatch Annie now. Like I I I might do uh just sing it to myself, Muppa Treasure Island, Annie double feature. I don't know.
SPEAKER_05As for me, I kind of already feel like I I went through my Tim Curry nostalgia so I won't reiterate or repeat myself, but as far as this movie goes, uh this movie, and we're gonna talk a bit about it. I don't really want to talk about Robin Hood Prince of Thieves, but I will say that I remember very well how popular Robin Hood Prince of Thieves was, and I always kind of thought of this movie as being like that, but for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I guess. Which makes sense.
SPEAKER_05It's a Disney film, and things are maybe a little, you know, more endearing to me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, definitely definitely lighter. Like uh Robin Hood Prince of Thieves is really a a full-on dramatic movie.
SPEAKER_05Also, for this movie, I think this might be the first appearance for me as a kid for possibly all of the leads in this. Not Tim Curry, I would have seen Tim Curry around, but Charlie Sheen, uh, I would have seen in Hotshots.
SPEAKER_00Or in maybe when did Major League come out?
SPEAKER_05Because that's before this too, that would be the 80s. Yeah, Major League and Hotshots. Sure. But Kiefer Sullen, certainly Oliver Platt, absolutely would not have seen Oliver Platt before this.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um, Chris O'Donnell is really only from one thing at this point, and I didn't see it.
SPEAKER_00What's the thing at this point?
SPEAKER_05I'm gonna reference it later. So you'll you'll their careers going forward in a lot of ways is it's that guy from Three Musketeers, like for like the rest of the 90s and like it through the 2000s, because like when 24 comes out, I'm like uh that's yeah, that's very funny. A little I I'm a little bummed about uh Oliver Platt though, because um I I'll talk about it more. I wish that I more was more aware of him growing up. Like I I I'm I was aware of him in the fact that he's in fucking everything. He's one of those actors, but like I wish I appreciated him more.
SPEAKER_00I you know, I I had a similar feeling of like I don't consume as much Oliver Platt as I feel like I should.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and then you look at him in the bear, it's like oh man, he's like he's so old, I feel like I wasted him. I feel like I like did not appreciate him when he when he was like around all the time, and now he's not he might not be around too much longer. So okay.
SPEAKER_00And I can't watch The Bears Do Stressful.
SPEAKER_05It is a very stressful show. Oh, actually, it starts off being stressful, and then like the last two seasons are just kind of fucking boring.
SPEAKER_00Well, I I gotta get to the boring seasons.
SPEAKER_05Alright, let's go ahead and talk about this this movie. So, Disney's the Three Musketeers is a 1993 film directed by Steven Herrick, uh, with screenplay by uh David Laurie. It is technically based on the Alexandre Dumas novel of the same name. It uh had a budget of around $30 million. Uh I'm not 100% certain where all that money went. Um, but it was uh had a box office of 111 million. So this was a hit. This was uh a pretty big hit. I think that if it didn't have such horrible reviews, we might have gotten a sequel to this at some point.
SPEAKER_00Oh, did it have horrible reviews?
SPEAKER_05Oh yeah, like it's it's the it's like in the 30s on Rotten to Mail. So I'd love to talk to you about the movie, but I actually have to backtrack and talk a little bit about uh the book. And I apologize to folks in advance. I'm going to probably butcher the shit out of a lot of names as I was trying to practice and I meant to have the pronunciations in front of me and I forgot. So I'm just gonna have to do it as best I can. So, the original Three Musketeers is a 1844 historical adventure novel uh by Alexandre Dumas, who was apparently working with uh a ghostwriter by the name of Auguste McMaquette. I don't know how much that partnership went. I hope this is not a Bill Finger situation. It is inspired by the historical soldier Charles de Bats de Castelmoe de Tanyon. Um D'Artagnan. Like the the real world D'Artagnan. D'Artagnan is based on a real person. This book is also the first part of a trilogy. Uh the The D'Artagnan romances, which features two other books. 20 Years After, and then the the Vicomte of Bricolion. Subtitled Ten Years Later. That got butchered. And I took you would not believe how long it took me to not get the right answer just now. I've cut it all out in the final version, but I've never wasted so much time to not get a good answer. The concept of the book is that Dumont discovered an almost certainly mostly fictional biographical stories on the historical uh the historical D'Artagnan uh documents and journals or whatever, and maybe one biography. Um the we we know that at least half, if not way more, is just fake stories. But the idea that he found literature about D'Artagnan and he's now relating stories to us is technically true, but as far as we can tell, every single thing that D'Artagnan does literally after the the first page starts is completely fictional. Uh this book is one of the most adapted pieces of literature in history, and it has it has over 35 live-action film adaptations since 1903, minimum, and that's just live-action film. That's not taking animated films, which would put it right up, not nor does it um count plays and all sorts of stuff. This this is a very, very well-adapted piece of of media. Uh now this movie was almost I think I sort of implied this, but this movie is almost certainly inspired uh by the runaway success of Kevin Costner's Robin Hood Prince of Thieves, which came out in 1991. So by 1992, interestingly, Disney, Columbia, and TriStar all had their own Three Musketeers movie in pre-production in the wake of Robin Hood. Now Disney ended up purchasing a screenplay by uh David Lowry, but oops, it turns out that Columbia had actually hired Lowry to write the script for them, and then he turned around and sold it to Disney. This would lead to Columbia suing Disney over uh IP theft. But it ended up being settled out of court, and however it s it squared away, Columbia opted to not continue doing a Three Musketeers movie. Um now, Tri-Star TriStar, their movie was apparently going to be a lot more adult-oriented and more faithful to the novel than Disney's version, but it ended up fizzling out on its own. If all three of those movies had come out, that would have been a very important historical cinema event. Charlie Sheen was originally targeted to play Porthos, which makes some sense because Charlie Sheen at this point is known more as a comedy guy, although I do think that casting him as Porthos as written really misunderstands the type of comedy Charlie Sheen does, which is more uh straight faced. Yeah. But he ended up taking the slightly less comedic role of Aramis, and yeah, that makes if you're gonna if you're gonna put Charlie Sheen in this movie, uh Porthos is not the right one. Aramis makes more sense. Shockingly, the studio's first choice to play D'Artagnan was Brendan Fraser.
SPEAKER_00Ooh, man, wouldn't that have been fun?
SPEAKER_05Well, while I do agree that that would have been super good for our childhoods, I cannot think of a young actor from this time frame who is less suited to play such a dickhead role.
SPEAKER_00That's that's fair, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Uh plus he's too tall. He is very like he would have just it would I I don't think anyone would buy saying like this is a this is a a young kid who can't even drink when he's towering over the other leads.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, no one's calling him a wee baby.
SPEAKER_05So, while they had some other folks that they they asked and rejected, they ended up settling for Fraser's co-star from School Ties, which is the thing that he did before this. Chris Chris O'Donnell, who was also in school ties.
SPEAKER_00Man, everybody was in school ties.
SPEAKER_05Maybe if you're young white in 1991, 1992, maybe young white man, time to be in school ties. Now I have pretty strong memories of the marketing for this movie really trying to sell this as a breakout performance for a hot new Hollywood star. Uh, I don't think that really 100% worked out. Uh anyway, so I want to drop some names of actors who were sought out for some role and apparently um said no. Uh, Jean-Claude Van Damp, Al Pacino, Johnny Depp, Robert Downey Jr., and Gary Oldman. So to me, this suggests that Dizzy did not really care about casting the right actors for this role. They cared about casting the biggest names they could.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But the script was bad, so I think that the biggest things they could said no. Um, Brad Pitt was also on that list, uh, but he was uh targeted for D'Artagnan. Sure. I just didn't write, just didn't write that down. Yeah, yeah. Uh so since everyone said no, then instead they got uh Kiefer Sutherland, who I think was still kind of looking for his post-80s breakout.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, definitely. He's still dissel dissel what's it lost boys? He just does a lost boy. He just a lost boy still.
SPEAKER_05Was he in Young Guns?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So Hollywood Heartthrob, but still looking for the Naiz Roll. Oliver Platt was also brought in, and they round out the four remaining characters. Supposedly, Renona Ryder may have been in talks to play Malady. But according to what I read, it made it sound like she dropped out, but I don't know if she dropped out or if she just or if she actually ever agreed to be in it. I haven't actually seen any evidence. But that would have been again, they're just trying to get the most famous people they can.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that is weird and unreasonable.
SPEAKER_05I'm surprised Keanu Reese wasn't asked to be in this movie, to be honest. I can't prove it, but based on the performance, I deeply suspect that Tim Curry was hired specifically as an Alan Rickman type to try to capture the over-the-top performance from the Robin Hood movie.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_05And whoever did the casting assumed that the Alan Rickman type meant British actor.
SPEAKER_00All of this sounds accurate.
SPEAKER_05This is conjecture on my part. Uh the production studio, uh Synergy Pictures, disagreed with the casting choices so much that they that they literally quit the project.
unknownWoohoo!
SPEAKER_05Uh, though perhaps Disney got the last laugh because they bought them in 1998. Uh, Caravan Pictures were hired instead, though it does appear that this was their first film. They they also um kind of crashed and closed by 1999, so it just wasn't a good year. It wasn't a good decade for these guys. Caravan crashed right around the time they released their final movie, the live-action Inspector Gadget movie.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sure. Okay, yeah, that seems that seems right.
SPEAKER_05A movie that I have not seen, even though um I had a lifelong crush on Michelle Track, who plays Penny in that.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah. I've seen it.
SPEAKER_05I've not. I think I've seen scenes and I was like, I just can't take it. Okay, I think that's all that I have to say uh about the background of this film.
SPEAKER_00Oh, what about the director? The director, isn't it the same director as uh uh Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure?
SPEAKER_05Oh, maybe. I didn't even bother looking that up.
SPEAKER_00Uh I was I didn't mean Let me actually say the names so I'm not just like being weird. Uh uh Stephen Herrick. Who uh he uh was also the director of Bell and Ted's Excellent Adventure, which we covered. I just like when I saw that I just found it funny because I did kind of feel like this movie reminds me a lot of the The like you know, uh the the time travely part seeing like the princesses in Belin Ted's excellent adventure. So like it is kind of funny. Like I I wonder if he kind of scouted some of the same places, and you know, I guess he has a certain style when it comes to that era.
SPEAKER_05He also directed the Mighty Ducks and Mr. Holland's Opus, which is like our dad's favorite movie. Yeah. So so yeah, this guy's actually pr a pretty important director for for for us. Uh I should have caught that quicker. Thanks for thanks for bringing that up.
SPEAKER_00Right on. Oh, we are a team.
SPEAKER_05Okay. So oh, also Dead Like Me.
SPEAKER_00Ugh.
SPEAKER_05Uh Life After Death.
SPEAKER_00God, I I love Dead Like Me.
SPEAKER_05I I I'm certain we've had this conversation probably at least two times. Yeah. Considering the movies that we've done for this podcast. So this is probably the third time. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Uh I love Dead Like Me.
SPEAKER_05Alright. So, Ariel, I was going to watch Three Musketeers, but it turns out there's a lot of Three Musketeers movies. And even though I watched 16 different Three Musketeers movies, I still watched didn't watch the right one. So can you just go ahead and um tell everybody what uh happens in this movie while I check out the uh the cliff notes for the novel? I'm sure it's the exactly the same plot.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I I totally get it. I thought I was watching the movie at first, and then it turned out I was just eating a candy bar. But then I got back on track. Um, so the musketeers. So this story takes place in 1625. We're in France. Right now, uh the the current king is Louis the Thirteenth. Yeah, Louis the Thirteenth. Um he's a a a young a young baby boy king. Um uh and uh there is tension and uh looming war with England happening. The king's right hand man is Cardinal Richelieu. Um uh you see in like the cold open that oh he's a bad boy, and he's like hanging out in a dungeon with his uh captain Rochefort Rochefort, and uh and you know, like people are begging for mercy, and he's like, Yeah, cool, I'll give you mercy, and like, you know, kills him. He the cardinal uh disbands the Musketeers. So the Musketeers are like the personal like bodyguards of the king, um, and he disbands them all under the pretense that they that France needs them to join like the full like France army against um England when really it's just that uh Cardell is about to like make his play for power. He's he's basically um you know staged in a coup where like uh most of the other like armed guard kind of people, royal soldiers are under his control, so he's getting rid of uh the musketeers who uh are not in his power. Um the only people who did not get you know lumped in with this uh disbanding are three musketeers that are left that didn't show up to the little roll call to drop off your your blue tunic, you little you blue smock. Um that's um Athos, Porthos, and Aramis. But you'll learn about that later. Uh cut and we also meet D'Artagnan. D'Artagnan is a young man whose father was once a musketeer, um, died in the line of duty. He's traveling to Paris because he wants to become a musketeer. He's quite the hothead, just getting into fights and doing, you know, naughty things with people's sisters and then getting in trouble for it for the rest of the uh movie. Uh he comes across um in three different occasions, Athos, Porthos, and Aramis, um, and manages to uh strike up a duel with all of them. He realizes that they're musketeers, and he's like, oh, I want to be your sidekick, and kind of joins them. Um meanwhile, they're they have a lot of conflict with uh Captain U Roseport, uh, who is uh who's been like uh charged to, you know, get rid of the last of the musketeers. Uh the the boys also find out that Cardinal is planning something bad, even and they act like it's a big mystery, but I think it's pretty obvious that he's planning to kill the king. Um so they kind of have a couple of adventures in the realm of like we gotta get to the bottom of this. Like Cardinal's sending a r a letter off to England. I think that you might be like he's gonna be trying to like have an alliance with the Duke of Burgundy, no, the Duke of Buckingham, and and and take over France with the help of England and all this stuff, and and mm-hmm and other stuff. And then there's like, you know, Milady, and she's doing spy stuff for Cardinal, and turns out she's the wife, the former wife of Aramis, and no booth. And it turns out he's the former, she's the former wife of Athos and all that stuff. Anyway, so in the end, they do their thing, the musketeers get back together and for the sake of um saving the king from this assassination that the cardinal tries to do, um, and it wraps off very uh easily, and everything's awesome, and the musketeers are back, and uh baby king Louis is fine and yay!
SPEAKER_05Alright. So, Ariel, how much do you know about the plot of the original novel?
SPEAKER_00You know, I I never I never read the novel for school. And it and like I I was thinking about this, like I I know so many people who have been in productions of Three Musketeers, and I've never I've I've never actually seen one. Like, literally when we were doing casting for Lear, uh, we had people auditioning where like uh like multiple people on our casting team was like, oh yeah, I know that she can do like sword fights because I saw her in Three Musketeers, however, recently, and it's like, oh, maybe I should have gone to see whoever was doing that production. So, like, yeah, I don't actually have uh much of a knowledge of like what the actual plot of the m of the actual book is and how much this strays from it. I'm assuming this strays quite a bit from it, but like I don't actually know.
SPEAKER_05So I'm gonna go ahead and give a quick shout out to Dominic Noble, uh does the YouTube show Lost and Adaptation, who I've mentioned a couple times over the course of this podcast. He did a three-part, three musketeers episode uh some years ago, and I uh re-watched it to kind of refresh myself with some of the various aspects. I okay. So it is correct that a young man named D'Artagnan goes to Paris to be a musketeer. Uh he does meet three senior musketeers by the name of uh Pathos, Athos, and Aramis. That happened. And there is a villain who everyone calls Milady. And the Cardinal is in that, is in it too. That is the ext- and all I guess the year probably takes right to place the right place. It's the right King Louis.
SPEAKER_04Uh, but that is the extent of what this movie has to do with the book.
SPEAKER_05Uh so first like first of all, like the it's just simple. So almost everything you can think of is just it's just fucking different. Like, D'Artagnan's dad was not a musketeer. He was he was like a minor noble who wrote him a letter of a recommendation to get into the musketeers, which he loses before he even makes it there.
SPEAKER_00Dumbass.
SPEAKER_05Um so this so there's no whole, there's none of this like my dad died in the line of duty, he's a legendary musketeer, the villain killed my dad, so I have to have a final duel. None of that, none of that there. The stuff with the the actual three musketeers, they're just portrayed very differently. They're kind of scummier and lazy more lazy. They don't really give a shit about being musketeers. But they do they do have a cool nickname, they're known as the inseparables. The cardinal isn't the villain in the original book. He's there, he's shady as shit. He does hire a spy to do bad stuff. It's just that that spy went rogue and did a lot more bad stuff than he had asked her to. The villain of the book is Malady. Whose role is greatly minimized in this, so that um Tim Curry can only munch on scenery.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it it does when you're watching it, it does feel like there's stuff missing from Milady's story. The whole like it's like it it feels really like rushed through and watered down and simplified and and and and it's not as interesting as it's not very interesting, and it feels like it should be. So like that makes a lot of sense that like she's supposed to do more things and be the primary antagonist.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, to be fair, it's a really fucking long book. Sure. It would be very difficult to put to put that to put that all into one movie without taking something out.
SPEAKER_00I am I am not surprised. Alexander Dumas books are are they're long.
SPEAKER_05The Musketeers are not broken up in the book. That they exist. They D'Artagnan just gets you know the the the the plot with uh the alliance with England is different, seems more complicated than we have here. Sure. Um, but probably the biggest change is also the biggest change from history where King Louis is depicted as having a genuine romance with his wife. Which at best they had a very contemptuous marriage, and at worst, he was gay as night.
SPEAKER_00I mean, at least bless this this King Louie, this this sweet, beautiful, beautiful boy, this this this call the midwife nurse looking motherfucker with his sweet baby bangs and his boots that are too big. Um you you still get the vibe um that uh this is uh maybe not uh a love match. Maybe this this young man might prefer different things.
SPEAKER_05But maybe there's a reason that he was so mad that the musketeers got broken up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. My boys! Not my boys. I god boy howdy. He he this is he's so pretty.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, he's got that long that long hair. He kind of looks like what would happen if Elijah Wood made a made a wish to be the prettiest man in Hollywood.
SPEAKER_00Do you wear Viggs?
SPEAKER_05So I'm gonna segue the the book to movie stuff into the actual critic the actual stuff about the movie um right now. Um one of the other major differences is that you're not gonna believe this. Because one of my major problems with this movie is how sh much of a fucking shit bag D'Artagnan is. D'Artagnan is much fucking worse in the books. Like this version of D'Artagnan is almost playfully like a playful scoundrel complain compared to the to the fucking rapist from the novel. Dominic Noble in his videos described him as an incel by the way he treats women, and yeah, makes sense. He uh Constance is in the book, Constance is a married woman who he stalks.
SPEAKER_02Oh no.
SPEAKER_05He stalks a lot of women in in the books. A lot of married women, that's his type. His type are married women, and then he screams at them when he sees them in public with other men, you know, their husbands.
SPEAKER_00Let me cuckold your husband, goddammit.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Like all the musketeers are like fundamentally worse people in the book than here. However, in the movie, and I uh the movie, uh, I had a hard time being able to enjoy it. Specifically because of how much I hated D'Artagnan in this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Just so fucking quick to make to just get in fights with with with folks for the littlest of reasons. Like it's just it's just insane. Like this guy should have been stabbed several times over. And I just want to make that segue. Um I I did not care for D'Artagnan. Even though he's worse than the book, I still did not enjoy watching a movie starring this version of D'Artagnan. And maybe if there was a more charming actor, maybe that would have worked. I don't think so. I think the script kind of ruined this character.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I will agree that it's it's really annoying. It's it's it's really annoying how how at every other set like it's just like the yeah, the the way he starts fights with everyone for like nothing. Like, I feel like Porthos is a a a pretty strong well, I don't even remember what exactly made him want to have a fight, have a duel with Athos. Porthos was like really dumb. Like, I mean he just kind of like spilled Porthos' drink, and Porthos kind of was like, the fuck? This was given to me by the Queen of America, and like next thing you know, he's like, well, let's fight about it then. And just like what it's just yeah, there is so much of it, and like and and in just yeah, his kind of like when in doubt, I'm just gonna, you know, fight it out, like, you know, when they're being chased by the by uh Rochefurt and the guys, and and and and the three Musketeers have like run off, and he wants to go like ooh for the musketeers, and like basically tries to like have a a a mounted duel with Rochefurt, and like you know, it's just like it's it is a lot, and and uh it's annoying.
SPEAKER_05So, like the duel with Porthos happens because he calls Porthos out on his lies rudely, and Porthos is probably like, well, I gotta fight this guy now. He gets into a fight with Aramis because he didn't accept Aramis' apology when he accidentally saved him when he jumped out of a window and was kind of a dick and also a dick about it.
SPEAKER_00At least for that, it's like, okay, like I'm pissed off that this guy like fell on me from the sky. Like, I feel like that I mean, I don't I I think none of these things are justified, but that feels like more of a thing of a reason to be annoyed because like ouch, that hurts.
SPEAKER_05Like that but he he but he was fine and the guy apologized. I feel like this isn't that that shouldn't lead to I'm now going to murder you.
SPEAKER_00That's true, that's true. These are duels, and he definitely is planning to duel to the death, like a just uh just even when he like even when he finds out they're musketeers, because he's like he has he has honor, so like I still I'm so sorry, I have to kill you. Like, God. Although I do appreciate their reactions to him.
SPEAKER_05The his duel with Athos is the worst one because how that duel starts is that Athos is grieving in Musketeer headquarters. D'Artagnan gets there, doesn't know that the that the Musketeers has have been disbanded. You know, you know, Athos is hurting, you're right. He's like he's he's brooding. That's why you got Keith Kiefer Sullivan here. And D'Artagnan mouse off to him for not being more helpful. Okay but first of all, D'Artagnan's D'Artagnan's so dumb that he didn't put two and together, this guy's probably a musketeer.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's what like I was thinking about that like later, like when he when he goes to to duel the three, um, you know, the the 12 o'clock, one o'clock, two o'clock. And and it's like, and they, you know, take off their coats and they have their musketeer smocks, and he's like, You're all musketeers, and yeah, it does feel interesting. Like he's I think for me, part of this re part of the reason why he is so insufferable, like beyond being like this like hot head guy, he's also a fucking idiot. And it's the combination, it's just it's just intolerable.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. By the way, the three duels against the three musketeers was in the book. There were I think there were different different reasons. I guess that's a famous literary moment. Like he challenges all three musketeers to a duel, not knowing they're musketeers. Anyway, um, I wanna back over. I wanna I want to turn around and go back to like talking about good things, like I normally try to start out with. And um, I'm gonna tell you, Aryo, I don't think I have a lot of good things to say. Um, I think the script is quite weak and everything suffers. But I do think that there's some bones of something that could have been really good. And while we're probably gonna talk about casting, I do think that Keith Sutherland as Athos and Oliver Platt as Porthos, particularly the way Porthos is depicted in this in this movie, would have been fine with a stronger script, like a version of Athos that is like a like a um brooding loner. I can see it, yeah. Young Kiefer Sutherland, get him in there. Makes sense to me. Uh Porthos is a large blowhard, yeah. Oliver Plat, get him in. I like that. I think that a better script would have lended itself better to to our to our buddy Tim Curry.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And you know, like I think the basic plot structure wasn't bad. It's okay that it's not similar to the book, but I think a tighter, better written script, it could have been a great movie. I, however, fucking think I hate this movie. I mean I hate. I mean hate's a very strong word, but it disappo was just a big disappointment for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I think I I think Kiefer Sutherland, because like at this point, he's he's he's still pretty baby. Like he's he's like late 20s. And uh and I it's it's so funny because like and come like he's supposed to be kind of like this, like kind of like the older grizzled one and because they slapped a beard on him and I was like, but he baby. Um and I and I think he uh suffers what we have experienced with other uh like still growing actors when they're given a bad script where like they can't really turn it around, and so like it's it's it just like feels pretty flat. Like I feel like you know Kiefer Silent feels pretty pretty flat in this.
SPEAKER_05But like yeah, he feels flat.
SPEAKER_00But I I bel I believe that's completely the well yeah, but like I I think But I I know you're saying we've said this about a bunch of actors, yeah. Um but like I I I think I I think Oliver Platt though manages to be I think really fun. Like I think he is my favorite part of this movie, and uh and I think I enjoy it more I enjoy this movie more than I should because of the stuff that Oliver Platt does. I think he I I think he does a lot of fun things with this role and and I think it's a a good time.
SPEAKER_05And um Yeah, he he he needs better friends.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But but he's but he is great. I think he might be the reason why I hesitate to say I hate this movie because he's very funny.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um I like I I think he has uh a like a perfect handle on his character. Um it feels very realized and very lived in, and like the way he delivers moments are just like really good. And so that's something. Um yeah, let's see. Hmm.
SPEAKER_05Something good, something bad.
SPEAKER_00I don't because I'm trying to think because I'm trying to think of like things that I uh enjoyed about the movie, but like uh but like now that I'm like kind of like looking at my a lot of them are just like related to like movies I moments that I thought were fun with porthos. It's so it's like oh no.
SPEAKER_05Um I like I I I like some of the scenes with the cardinal when some of his one line, not all for one and more for me. That's that was the trailer line. But I do like when Athos con uh sorry, when Aramis confronts him and he's like, I don't answer to the laws of men. It's like you'll answer to God, and then he shoots him. He's like, you fist.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um just so nonchalantly, it was so such a greatly delivered line. Like that's easily my favorite line that the Cardinal has in that.
SPEAKER_00Agreed. I think that's a great moment. And like, I mean, okay, so like I feel like the two big lines from this movie that got repeated a lot. Um, um you so like speaking of Tim Curry, when he has like captured the king and the queen and he's Been lusting after the Queen, like the whole movie. And he's like, I'm gonna take over with my queen, of course, you know, that kind of shit. And uh Queen Anna's like, I'd rather die. And he kicks out of it out of the way and goes, That can't be arranged. Um we I remember quoting that a lot. Um, and then another fun Porthos uh moment. Um, the the boys have stolen the cardinal's uh carriage, and uh Porthos realizes that like he has a full picnic, all all the all the cardinal snacks and and and boozies are in here, and uh he takes out some wine and there's a lot of shenanigans with that, and he's like drinking it out of the bottle, and uh he says to uh D'Artagnan, uh, you can't have any, you're too young. Which is something that our mom used to say to us a lot.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. I I I hope that was ad-libbed because otherwise that mine doesn't make any sense. It like for the time. Yeah. Also, also that also he drinks with them later.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But like I either way, like I I find it I I wouldn't I mean I I think it's I hope it's imp improvised, but the fact that he, you know, technically could drink anyway, I think is fine. Because I think it just adds to the fact that like because he like he calls him like an infant and things like that. And so like uh I I I do not take uh I don't take Umbridge with the idea of him saying that you can't have any you're too young because he's constantly calling him a a baby boy anyway. And I think even in France, you know they weren't giving that much wine to infants.
SPEAKER_05I mean like it's the what, the seventeenth century? We don't know.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah la la la la la la la Um Yeah Uh yeah, I don't know. Um I uh it's uh I don't know. Um I'm trying to think of like uh I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't think Charlie Sheen as Aramis is like horrible or I I I think it's um it's it's just kind of like a a a a bummer because I think it's more like uh I someone someone else that has more uh like depth of of of quiet emotional presence uh just would have been able to do so much more with with Aramis because I like uh because yeah, he is like this kind of relatively stoic guy, but also a scoundrel. And like um that in theory had more to be played with that like probably out of like Charlie Sheen's purview. So it's just like I think there are like things left off like you know left on the table.
SPEAKER_05So I did not like Charlie Sheen in this movie, and however, I admit that a lot of that might be from my own incredible distaste for Charlie Sheen.
SPEAKER_00I think part of it might be because like I don't because this because it seems pretty good for him.
SPEAKER_05I mean he's decent, um, but like but the but like I have such I have such disdain for for him. Everything I know about him, I just have such disdain for the way he's he's like been described. Uh maybe a documentary that a a Chow TV star made on Hulu recently suggests that he may have taken her underage virginity. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00That's pretty awful.
SPEAKER_05Um I don't I don't know. That's allegedly, I guess. So like anything anytime he opened his mouth, I was just kind of like boo hiss. So like I I I probably wasn't gonna give him a chance anyway. But I will say that I just don't didn't find him sincere in the line delivery. Yeah, he's fine, but like I would have pref like uh I think a better actor would have been able to strike the the balance of like what you said, like a man of God, but also a scoundrel. Whereas like every time he said, especially anytime like he said anything about God, I was just I it was like the way you say it sounds exactly like someone who's reading that phrase off a script. And since you're Charlie Sheen, you're not really doing that much acting anyway. Yeah, so yeah, just I d I I uh it it bothered me. I preferred Sutherland, even though he's not doing like great, I do think that like he was more capable of like trying to hit the notes that the script wanted for his character. I believed it more. Um I would have even been okay with him being in his late 20s if they cast a younger man to be D'Artagnan.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05They should have cast the they should have fucking cast the goddamn king to be D'Artagnan.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I would have believed him as uh a baby. Although it does make me think of um uh speaking of uh Muppet Treasure Island when like uh the the Muppet blind Pierre grabs Jim and he's like ah a little girl because he's like stroking his hair and he and he's like uh I'm not a girl. I did have that thought with uh with King Louis, like, ah, a little girl.
SPEAKER_05How about you give me your throne, ma bitch?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, basically. Um I I will say yes, I agree that um Athos uh and and Keith Keefer's Sutherland's uh uh performance in general is is is more definitely more truthful than you know fucking Charlie Shane. Although I gotta say, uh I found zero chemistry between him and Milady. That did like that's I think that's where he seems most baby boy to me. Um like he it felt I don't know what it was about it, but like for some reason I felt like his stuff with Milady, it felt like a school play where it's like, and now I'm doing these romance scenes with a girl, and the way he scrunches up when she kisses him is weird. And I like found it just all like, oh, I that I found it just like that's that is that is not good acting there.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, poly poly casting a more experienced actor who's also older would probably would have been the better thing to do here, sure. Let's talk about the casting for a quick second, actually. Uh just overall. I want to say this, and I know why, because Kevin Costner could not be ours to do a British accent and Robin Hood. So now we're in this, we're in that era of of Hollywood swashbuckling films. But as far as accents go in these in these type of movies, these like fantastical movies based off of potential real-world history. I don't really have like this thing about we have to have British accents.
SPEAKER_00I always find that necessity kind of dumb. Like, I don't I don't like it when movies decide that all of Europe is British.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you know, this this has come up in pop culture over the summer because of the Odyssey, because everyone in the Odyssey has some sort of American accent. And that was a big backlash against that, where people are saying, like, why isn't everyone having a British accent?
SPEAKER_00Why would they?
SPEAKER_05And it's like, and then and then the res and my response is because they're not British. Like they're not American either. I was like, okay, yeah, but here's what you would need to do. You have to have them speak the language, which you're not gonna have them do, because no one's gonna go see the Odyssey if it's all in subtitles. And and so the only next best thing is to have them say it in the accents of ancient Greeks, which first of all is impossible to replicate because like not a language that exists, yeah. We don't know, we don't know, but you're not gonna want that either. Like, whenever like we like as Americans, like put British accents in these type of films to that are definitely not in England. Um, I should say English accents, like people in in Great Britain don't really appreciate how having it's like called the British accent.
SPEAKER_00It's usually English RP um received pronunciation. So like most of the time when you have the random English accents in these movies, this is technically the accent that you would put on when when uh being received by the Queen or the King. Sure. But like just just for just for folks who have not heard the term English RP, but like technically that's what that accent is. Um and so it's very much not even an accent that people technically have on in in real life in England. It is it is kind of a constructed, you know, uh in a similar way where like uh there like is a certain kind of like American, like down the line accent that is kind of like the kind that you would have like newscasters have that it is is perhaps kind of um a little Midwestern like but is this kind of like standard you don't know where they're from kind of thing. That's kind of what English RP is.
SPEAKER_05So when you say English RP, you're not saying English roleplay. We're not talking about having an English, an England fetish.
SPEAKER_00Received pronunciation.
SPEAKER_05Okay, okay so this is not we're not talking about like all these guys um who were mad about the Odyssey having uh having their kinks out in the open. Okay, got it.
SPEAKER_00This is not like a weird art Odyssey LARP. And like I just like when it comes to because the idea of like, well, why are they having American accents? But it's like, well, it's an American student, it's an American movie, like it's it's made by Americans, so why why why would a movie coming out of Hollywood need to like I like I I don't know why it needs to be explained. Why to just do an American accent for something that is not taking place in the UK.
SPEAKER_05I think that when we do that with the accents, with the English accents, I I feel like it makes us look buffoonish as Americans. Right, you know? So I I always dislike that. So that everyone has an American accent in the Odyssey, not only doesn't bother me, I actually kind of like that. Me too. I like that someone made an epic, like a grand epic movie based off of that epic poem, and then just had everyone just speak. So I just it just I think it works. I I really like that movie, and that's one of the reasons. Same. And so the fact that the four leads of the three musketeers use American accents does not actually bother me for the same reason. But what I want in a movie is consistency. Yeah, I think that everyone in the movie who is French should have the same accent. And if you have anyone from another country, they should have a different accent. Now, whatever those accents are, you can decide later, but I just needed consistency. But in this movie, it's all over the place. We've got like the four four American leads, we've got a uh an English villain, we've got a oh, we got a Canadian sub-villain, but that's whatever.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, minus like I guess Rosefort, like if he's from if if that guy's from Canada, he's just doing like weird, vaguely English things with his accent. Tim Curry's just being himself. If if it were something as simple as like everyone can just be themselves and just have the accent that they have, that's something I guess, but it feels like that's not quite what's happening. So like it's it's yeah, like you said, it's it's very muddy and it doesn't it doesn't feel good.
SPEAKER_05I just I just want I just want consistency. I just want every French person to have the same accent so they feel like they're from the same country. That's all I want. That's all I want. If that meant everyone had to do an English accent, I would be okay with it. Uh but yeah, whatever, whatever. I want to say that this movie felt really sexist. Like that scene about like them teaching um D'Artagnan how to how to how to how to do wenching is pretty is a pretty big bummer. However, the shit they do in the book is so much worse that this feels quaint.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I I still don't I still don't I still don't like it maybe super uncomfortable and kind of pulled me out of the movie, but at least no one got sexually assaulted.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Well, actually, I guess at one moment kind of she kind of did. He just kind of kissed her without getting consent first. Sure.
SPEAKER_00I I at least in this scenario, they all seem to be having a good time. Um, like it wasn't like a kiss and a slap. So like I'll let them have that part of it. Um, yeah, it the I mean the I mean they're just treating them like, you know, uh fucking dolls, basically. Um, and uh yeah, it is quite a bummer. Bad source material. I mean it is like I was gonna say like, you know, the the Disney the Disnification of stories, but that is exactly what this is, because it is a Disney movie where like uh it's like oh if you if you read the actual story, you would be just terrified. And it is a it is a bummer.
SPEAKER_05I think I have two things I want to say, not including the shout-up. Um and then I think then I think I then I think I'm done. If you have two more notebooks full of notes, you can feel free to say it. But I just quickly want to revisit in more detail my issues with the main character and the villain. So um I hate Chris O'Donnell in this movie. I'm not sure if I've ever liked Chris O'Donnell in anything, but I hate him here. I I feel that this was a very bad casting choice. I think they needed somebody younger, which is exactly what I'm gonna say if we ever do Batman Forever.
SPEAKER_00Oh, good God, yes. Sweet baby Jane. Why can Robin rent a car? Like, I it's too much.
SPEAKER_05I don't think Chris O'Donnell is that charming. Perhaps a more charming actor would have been able to make me not hate D'Artagnan as much, but D'Artagnan is greatly handicapped by the script. So, and and you can't say that's Chris O'Donnell's fault. Uh, Chris O'Donnell doesn't do anything interesting in the film, and that's kind of his fault. But he he I'm assuming he wasn't on set going, like, what if my character was just more of a dickhead? Can we just add some more dickhead lines? Guessing he wasn't doing that, yeah, right. But it's just but like I just really feel that they could should have gotten somebody else, and if they couldn't get a famous person, that the most famous person they could get for this was Chris O'Donnell, they should have just gotten a known uh an unknown and and introducing John Doe, you know, right? Like you already got like the three musketeers played by people who are known, more or less. Um, D'Artagnan doesn't necessarily have to be a famous actor. Find the best fucking D'Artagnan you can find.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Also, he'll be cheap because he's unknown. Like good good good and cheap.
SPEAKER_05But I mean get it down a little bit.
SPEAKER_00But man, I I I'll I will probably never understand Hollywood casting. Cause I I I really there's so many times it's just like I just don't understand why this decision was made.
SPEAKER_05In regards to the villain, well, first of all, I'll say that like it's it's shitty that uh Milady doesn't get more considering she's the villain of the book. Uh Rebecca de Mornay. I think she's fine. I just don't think she has anything to to work with.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I think the the paper thin plot really does her no favors. Her interactions with D'Artagnan and and why she decides to bring him along and not kill him when he finds out, like, you know, that she's the spy. It's like, you you love an adventure. Bring him along. I think they said something. What?
SPEAKER_05Like he knew something that they weren't 100% sure if if he was telling the truth or not. I can't remember what they said. I I remember clocking that as being it was a very weak excuse, but I remember it still being an excuse, right? I can't remember what it was.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I know he like you'll never know about why blah blah blah. Yeah, it it just it it was it's still it's it's it's a weak plot. It's a bummer, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Okay, so I don't want this to sound like I'm talking shit about Tim Curry. I'm not, alright? I'm not gonna talk shit about Tim Curry the week after he died. That's uh that's monstrous. But um, I am deeply disappointed by the Cardinal in this. I feel like there could have been so much more done. I've seen this man just turn a scene into him just like um like jaw dislocated, chewing up that goddamn scenery like it was like like it was no one's business. I've seen him do this. I've seen him do this a lot. He's a very expressive and outrageous actor when he wants to be. Somehow not being anywhere close to what you would need for a movie like this, despite the fact that they made the cardinal cartoonishly evil.
SPEAKER_00Well, like, it makes me wonder, because like we know he knows how to to twirl a mustache. Not even a mustache, a mustache. And I wonder, like, in the like is this like is he getting direction that's like pulling making him pull back? Or like because it does seem because he does seem restrained.
SPEAKER_05Obviously, we weren't there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Right. But it does sound like he got notes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05It does kind of feel like someone may be like, hey, rein it in, Tim. But if someone said that, that person would have been fucking insane. But at the same time, I cannot believe, after watching Rocky Horror Picture Show, that the guy who played Frankenfurter did not have it up to 11 at some point. Like I can't imagine that he made the choice to to do a seven instead of an eleven, you know?
SPEAKER_00And and that's a it's that's a that's a that's a such a bummer. And like it just uh it it just adds to the list of like this movie production just making shitty choices.
SPEAKER_05I just kind of feel like every choice they made, they made the wrong one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You you like if you're casting Tim Curry, you gotta just let him cook. And like, because and I it's like I I mentioned this this movie Jackie's back, which is a movie that I had never seen before, but it happens to be a movie that had Tim Curry as like the co-star, but also had some some Dolly Parton. I was like, this might be the one movie that they're both in, and I found that quaint, and so I watched it. But like that was a movie that 100% did not know what to do with Tim Curry, and like didn't really have a reason for him to be in that role, and it showed and it was not good, and it's just like you get home even Home Alone 2 seemed to get it more. Yeah, because the fact that in all of these line deliveries that Tim Curry never did a word word word thing, it's like we are not letting him do his thing. And like I I don't I don't like it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And then just add to the fact that uh a lot all this villainous stuff that was invented for the movie does also make it feel a little you know a little a little a little worse. Because then it just feels like like, oh, so this is actually not very good, and you invented it. Like you you decide you had to have your Disney Vin your Disney villain. And god damn it. This this this probably should have been an animation, because then not only and so have Tim Curry, because not only would he have gotten to sing a song, but then he also would have he also probably uh would have been would have been queer-coded as many Disney Renaissance villains are, and it would have been a much more fun performance.
SPEAKER_00Let him toxic love that bitch. But I will say, because it does make me think of like I mean, I I don't have like any specific examples, but like I I have had moments w with like shows and movies where they do a casting where it's like, oh wow, you decided to go with them. Oh, okay, well, they're just gonna like yum nom eat this up, and then you watch it and you're just like, oh no. This is like they're like they're doing nothing. Why why did you cast them if they're doing nothing? Like, this isn't the first time I've seen this kind of thing happen. And like it is interesting.
SPEAKER_05I I it's like casting Nicolas Cage for a subdued a subdued role. Um, I'm I I I I don't have anything like Except for that one shout-out. So is there anything else you would like to talk about? The floor is yours.
SPEAKER_00Um I did find it funny. Like I was trying to uh to uh place constance because I was like, oh, she definitely seems familiar. And then I realized that like I knew her, like she has like two versions of this movie. Um one is like two days in Paris and one is two days in New York. It's like this Two Days in Paris is first, and it's actually her and Adam Goldberg. Um and like they're a couple and they go to like Paris for like a thing, and you know, she's being French, and um, and they meet like her exes and like stuff goes down and and then like years later she does a different version of this that is kind of a similar movie, but this time her partner is is Chris Rock, and now they're in New York having a similar plot. And I'd seen both of these movies like years ago, I think when I was in college, and I was like, ah, it's that woman from that thing. I think those like are like her projects. Um but anyway, I was just like, oh, Julie Dopey from those. She's I think she's in a lot of other things, but like I remember her particularly from the two two days in Paris slash two days in New York thing that she did. Yeah, that's I guess it's not that interesting. I just I remember her from a thing. I think I'm ready for the shout-out.
SPEAKER_05Okay. I'm a little embarrassed to say that I actually didn't recognize him at the time. I had this had to be pointed out to me afterwards.
SPEAKER_00But I you know, it's okay, no, you say your your thing. Cause like this time around, I was like, wait, is that because this would have been the first time I would have recognized this person. And I was like, oh shit.
SPEAKER_05I guess I've only seen him in two no, I might have seen him in something else. I've I I've seen him in uh like two major things and also in a picture with my ex-girlfriend in it.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay, yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure.
SPEAKER_05But um there's a character who apparently uh D'Artagnan said that nothing happened, but like he seems to be pretty certain that D'Artagnan boinked his sister, and so he's he wants to kill D'Artagnan in an honorable duel to restore the honor or whatever, and then he after he gets beaten up by D'Artagnan, he's like, Well, I'm in instead of like calling this good, my brothers and I are gonna chase you for the rest of the movie, and it's just kind of like uh there's like a there's like a a uninteresting game of cat and mouse in the in the background of this film at any given time. But the act and the joke about this guy is that he's like he seems like a like a foppish buffoon, uh an English actor. And then that he when he says D'Artagnan, he he says it very high-pitched, like D'Artagnan! He does that, like does it constantly.
SPEAKER_00He looks he looks like a looks like a rooster. Yeah, this this character the character Girard. Very annoying.
SPEAKER_05I don't even it doesn't even matter what his name is. Like it's it's so unimportant. Um, but he is played by the an actor who played the doctor from Doctor Who, but was probably the doctor that got got done the dirtiest.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And it's none other than Paul McGann, who played the eighth doctor, who is very who's like quote unquote famous for playing the doctor in the attempted 90s reboot that was done by an American production company that went nowhere after its its pilot movie, and then doesn't we never we don't see again actually we never see him again on a TV show. We only ever see the character again many years later to explain the the origin of a different doctor.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like a little, like a little, um, a little short. Um they do have him do um Doctor Who like audio book like drama things, and like which is sad because like he is he is good and it's it is it is a bummer for him for sure.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, those uh those um audio dramas were apparently were apparently really well received. He did a whole series of them, and they were popular enough that there were some people who were like saying, like, we should just have like a Doctor Who spin-off of just like the Eighth Doctor's Adventures, even if it was just a mini-series. I mean, they had enough spin Doctor they had so many Doctor Who spin-offs going on during this time period that uh I don't I think I I think I would have been okay with seeing um uh Paul McGann spin-off for a season than these than the sixth um Torchwood one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I will say, like, if if any of you are interested in um, you know, kind of getting a taste of like, you know, what what could have been. Um I know at like conventions people like so 11 in particular has like um really um iconic speeches um that a lot of times at conventions um they'll ask other doctors to do those speeches. Um, like there's like a particular speech, for instance, um, I think it's when uh from like uh Pandora opens, um that like the 11th doctor gives to like the legion of aliens who have come to like basically battle him to get to the Pandora or whatever. And so like in one of these conventions they had Paul McGann read that speech to like do like this is his doctor's version of it. And it's it's really good. And you can just look you can just look this up on YouTube.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, like uh it's it's so interesting because like is this how different it is, yeah, than than Matt Smith's uh original version. Just like because Matt Smith is like it's like uh loud and angry and a little desperate, but his is so subdued, like a quiet anger. Yeah, it's very interesting.
SPEAKER_00For for me, it's it's fun because like I um a a lot of these uh audiobook and audio dramas are available on uh Spotify, and so like sometimes I'll just kind of cycle through um listening to some of these Doctor Who's like on long runs. It's nice.
SPEAKER_05Paul uh Paul McGain is not good in this because no one's is that good and he doesn't have much to do. Um I'm not saying that they would have realized how good an actor Paul McGahn would have been in like '93, but this is technically an example of someone talented being wasted in this movie.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but that's like his Paul McGahn historically being underutilized.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's an unfortunate like that has been his lot in life. Um okay, anything else, or should we go to ratings?
SPEAKER_00Oh, you know what? I actually did have a thought, speaking of like Milady and her raspataz with D'Artagnan. Um also, like, don't stop speaking of like sexual assault, like you stop stop fondling and and stop fondling that boy and get him some clothes. Um but he has the moment when she's when he knows who she is and um and she's trying to seduce him and she kisses him and then takes a pick out of her, like a little like hair thing out of her hair, and it's a knife. And I definitely thought of like, oh no, it's Milady's Gom Jabbar. She doesn't get to use it on him. She doesn't get to stab him in the neck. Oh, also, I'm sorry, cause I've this was another thing with Milady and the in the in the plot and just like you know, poor, poor, poor writing. The fact that Athos is having this big, you know, the big story about his past with Milady, which sounds that whole that whole scene while he while Keeper Sutherland, you know, as he gets into it, it becomes, you know, very very poignant and sad. It feels like so forced the way they have like made him tell the story about this guy who was a count and loved a girl and blah blah blah.
SPEAKER_05But like basic bad writing, right now, yeah, it it's it's a dialogue.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's not good. And he he he he does do as much as he could with it. But like the whole thing is like how like she has this brand, this brand of a fleur-de-lee on her, and he sees this and it's like this is the mark that she's killed someone, and he had spent so much time never having seen it. And then you get to the scene when D'Artagnan sees it in like two seconds because it's on her fucking shoulder. How the fuck? It like he sees it in like he's he like D'Artagnan's with her for like 10 minutes before he sees it, and for some reason, like at those characters goes however long married to this woman, and I guess never seeing her fucking shoulder. It's such it's so dumb.
SPEAKER_05She was a lights out kind of girl.
unknownGod.
SPEAKER_00Awful.
SPEAKER_05Hey, uh speaking of that particular story, I do want to reiterate it's an example of why these guys are worse people in the book. Um, in the book, the mark wasn't specifically for murder, it was for someone who's been convicted of a crime. Um, so what that crime was, it could have literally been stealing bread, right? Um, he doesn't hand her over to the authorities, he hangs her himself.
SPEAKER_00Damn. Wait, does she just survive the hang-in?
SPEAKER_05She survived. Uh and and he did not somehow she survived, and like that's like a thing over part of the reason he's brooding is that he's you know he murdered his wife. Um, but he had to because she was a criminal. Uh, and then she shows up here, and then she's like, Well, you didn't hang me hard enough. Now I'm now I'm really evil.
SPEAKER_00You didn't hang me right, bitch. Stab.
SPEAKER_05Arya, what would you give Disney's the three musketeers? A thumbs up, a thumbs down, or a thumbs somewhere in the middle.
SPEAKER_00I had to think about this because like the more I've thought about this, the more I'm like, uh Oliver Platt's three musketeers is a thumbs in the middle. And then I was like, wait, if if you took Oliver Platt's performance out of this, what would you actually think this this movie was? It was like, oh no, it's a hundred percent of thumbs down. Like, whoopsie doodle. I was blinded by uh a a fun performance. So thumbs down.
SPEAKER_05Um it's a thumbs down for me too. I know I've been giving a lot of thumbs down lately. Um, I would say this one is like maybe a higher thumbs down because of Platt's performance. I wouldn't say never to watching this movie again, and a lot of it has to do with him.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's the thing. He's it's so fun. Like, I it it is really crazy because like he really made me feel like I was having a fun time.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. But the thing about this movie is that it's really badly written. It's a really badly written script, it's very paper thin. They the characters aren't super developed, and it's the worst with the cardinal, who is like a very cartoonishly evil villain without without having the over-the-top nature of such a villain, and despite having one of the most over-the-top villain actors in Hollywood history there, and the casting isn't really good for most of it. Like, um, even the even the ones that we kind of liked, except for um Pratt, uh except for Platt, Platt's good, but like aside from Platt, even the ones that we kind of liked or thought were okay, we know that there was there's better choices out there, and it just sucks. This movie just kind of feels like it had the ingredients to be awesome, and it just fucked up at every turn.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's a it's a bummer. Also, I do find uh Chris O Chris O'Donnell's hair I I didn't get to mention my feelings on his feathered 90s hair that's happening. Good lord.
SPEAKER_05I think that's gonna do it for us this week.
SPEAKER_00Oh, wait. Oh my god, I forgot. Rochefort is like fucking hot. He's like the evil pouty boy. Okay, I I forgot to bring that up. Rochefort is hot and pouty.
SPEAKER_05Here's the thing about him though. He was in Robin Hood Prince of Thieves.
SPEAKER_00Oh.
SPEAKER_05That might be why he's in this movie. I do not really know who he played because I have not seen Robin Hood Prince of Thieves since the 90s. So I don't actually remember much about it aside from that was the first time. No, maybe not the first time, but it was like an early time for me knowing uh like seeing Morgan Freeman and something, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I I feel like the things I remember the most from Robert from Prince of Thieves, that cut your heart out with a spoon and uh and and and too much childbirth and me being like this I this is too much for me as a kid.
SPEAKER_05God, I wish that uh I wish that there was a cut your heart heart out with a spoon moment in this movie.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Alright. There was a m a song attached to this movie that was very famous. I just feel like I should probably give lip service to it. It's called All for Love. It's like a super group move, it's like a super group song. It is uh Brian Adams and Rod Stewart and Sting all doing it together. It's not a good song.
SPEAKER_02I don't know if it was on the radio fucking constantly when we were kids.
SPEAKER_00So 90s.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, uh, it exists. I don't need to think about it again. All right, so that's gonna do it for us. Our theme song was Sell Up by Zombie Apocalypse Now from the EP for Bin Tales of Science. You can find that more at anti Zombie Rocket.bankhead.com. Next time, we are going to try to cop on that sweet, sweet SEO train by uh doing a movie that we're gonna hope is gonna trick a lot of people into listening to the podcast because of the movie that comes out just a couple days later, as long as everything goes well. Speaking of over-the-top villain performance, it's about time that we watch what could be the over-the-top villain performance, and we're gonna take a look at the Jean-Claude Van Damme Vehicle Street Fighter the movie.
SPEAKER_00I'm very excited.
SPEAKER_05This is one of those movies that I have nothing but bad memories about.
SPEAKER_00I'm sure. Did I did I mean, did I watch it? I don't remember it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, we did. We didn't we didn't own it, we rented it, and we saw it like maybe a time or two during the rental period.
SPEAKER_00Huh. Yeah, I don't remember a thing about it.
SPEAKER_05It's it is okay. So I have not seen this in decades. So I I cannot say it's actually garbage and shit, because I I haven't seen it. And I don't think it's fair for me to say that. But my memory of it is as dog shit. However, it does feature an actor. I obviously said uh Raoul Julia is is like the villain in this. We all we all know this, yes. Um we're gonna talk the shit out of him and talk about how much we love him, I'm sure. But there's another actor in here who I did not realize had been in this movie because I didn't really care about her in the 90s, even though she was in a lot of really important things. But in the last 15 years or a little bit more, she's actually become one of my favorite actors, and that's uh Ming Na Wen, who is also the voice of Mulan. Um, also uh played a major role in Agents of Shield and and The Mandalorian in recent times. Also a big old fucking nerd, big old nerd who's living her best life.
SPEAKER_00Hell yeah. Uh one uh one of the few people who have done uh the Disney hat trick of Disney movie, Marvel shit, and Star Wars shit. Good for her.
SPEAKER_05Realistically speaking, with all the potential animated roles she could do for those characters, she's always have income coming in.
SPEAKER_00Honestly, oh god, yeah, that is that is really fair.
SPEAKER_05She actually just got uh um inducted as a Disney legend recently.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I'm happy to.
SPEAKER_05So like I I this is beyond the purview of this episode. Okay, we we gotta wrap it up. Um so uh we're gonna go. I do have a a question for you, Ariel. If you were going to cast Three Musketeers today, and I'm gonna make it easier on you. Who is there an actor that you'd be really interested in seeing as one of the four leads? I'm not gonna I'm not gonna make it hard and say what four actors you would want to see in this, but there's an actor you can think of that you'd be really interested to see as any of the four mains.
SPEAKER_02Oh boy, oh boy.
SPEAKER_05Oh I have my answer.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I I feel like it's getting a little old now. So I guess it's not quite today, but I at some point in recent years well mm-hmm like like I could I I could I could I could see like at some point like maybe like Chris Hemsworth being a washed up mu musketeer and and but also having like fun comedic stuff. I don't know what exactly I would make him like which person I would make him I'd make him Matthos. Yeah, like I feel like I I could like I could see him as being like one of like yeah what one of the musketeers.
SPEAKER_05Um my answer is Timothy Shallamette five years ago.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was like I knew it's like either either Timmy or Tommy being the young boy because they're always young boys.
SPEAKER_05I think he would have been a perfect person for D'Artagnan five years ago because even today he looks younger than he is, but five years ago he would have looked the appropriate age. He's a fantastic actor, if you know, a little dumb, seemingly in interviews sometimes. Um, and he speaks fluent French. True, true, true, true, true, true. I don't think there has been a Hollywood actor more appropriate to play D'Artagnan. It's just kind of a bummer that Hollywood just wasn't making terror movies at the time where he would have been most appropriate to play it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, basically on either side, on either side of the the right timing.
SPEAKER_05All right, I'm gonna reach out to the the people who run the Wayback Machine website and see if they have any way to uh not just go back in time to see the website, but go back in time to talk to actors and then pitch it to Timothy, see if he's if he's down. He's probably playing Call of Duty, he's probably not listening to me.
SPEAKER_00So you know, like Marie, was it Marie Cotiard? Is that right? She'd be a good malady.
SPEAKER_05Oh god, yeah. Yeah, if we're talking like five years ago, yeah, yeah, fucking definitely fucking true that God, god damn. I'm mad. Oh well. Um I'll I'll try to get Timothy on the on from five years ago on the on the horn. See if you can get if you need to stop playing Xbox for a moment to talk to me. But uh until next time, as always, please do not put a dirty stock in your I forgot to have the pronoun some of the pronunciations ready to go.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05All right, well, I gotta have the Fuck it, we'll do it live.