The Mostly Real Estate Podcast, with Declan Spring

From Meta to Real Estate: How Ellie Ridge Roared to Success on Instagram - #62 Ellie Ridge

• Declan Spring

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What happens when you combine in-depth construction knowledge, real estate expertise, and authentic social media content? For Ellie Ridge, it created a phenomenon that transformed her from a recently laid-off Meta employee to a successful realtor with 234,000 Instagram followers in just two years.

This conversation takes us through Ellie's fascinating journey, beginning with her unique background. As the daughter of a master roof framer (and later home inspector), Ellie grew up absorbing valuable knowledge about building structures that would eventually become her professional superpower. When her family lost their home, 13-year-old Ellie developed a fierce determination for financial security that would shape her future decisions.

Ellie shares the pivotal moment when, at age 24 while working in tech, she purchased her first home. She approached this not as her dream home but as a strategic investment – a mindset she now passes on to her first-time homebuyer clients. After being laid off from Meta two years ago, she joined her mother's real estate business, bringing a fresh perspective and emphasis on construction knowledge.

What makes this episode particularly valuable is Ellie's candid discussion about social media success. She reveals how her construction-focused content unexpectedly went viral, the mental health challenges that came with sudden internet fame, and her approach to creating sustainable, authentic content. Rather than focusing on algorithms or growing followers, she emphasizes the importance of genuine passion: "Make videos about stuff you love talking about. People can feel when you care about it."

For real estate professionals and anyone interested in building an online presence, Ellie offers practical insights about lead generation, conducting effective open houses, and maintaining multiple business channels rather than relying solely on social media. Her journey demonstrates how specialized knowledge and authentic communication can create a unique path to success in a competitive field.

Ready to learn how someone turned construction knowledge into social media gold? Listen now and discover strategies you can apply to your own business and online presence.

Follow Ellie Ridge on Instagram @ellieridgerealtor 

Ellie Ridge is a licensed CA REALTOR® DRE# 02217753

Declan Spring is a licensed CA REALTOR® DRE#01398898

Declan:

This is Declan Spring and welcome to the Mostly Real Estate Podcast. Okay, well, before we get into my conversation with Ellie Ridge, just a reminder that on Thursday next week, august 7th, I'll have a live podcast recording at the office in Berkeley at 2089 Rose Street with Liam O'Donoghue, journalist, historian and host of my favorite East Bay podcast, east Bay. Yesterday Doors are at 3 pm and the conversation will begin at 3.15 pm. I'm looking forward to diving into the story behind East Bay yesterday and we'll focus on various podcast episodes that are especially relevant to Oakland and East Bay real estate. Refreshments provided by Evelyn Freitas at guaranteed rate, and feel free to text me at 415-446-8591 to let me know you're coming.

Declan:

Okay, that's all the housekeeping I have for today. Now I bring you my conversation with Ellie Ridge. I am really, really excited to have Ellie Ridge joining me on the podcast and it was just a matter of time before you came in. Thank you, oh, thank you so much for asking me and you said it's okay, it's kind of a slower time of year, but that can be different for different agents because your level of transaction is pretty high, your transaction volume, so you're probably in transaction right now. It's not like you don't have anything going on.

Ellie:

I feel like around 4th of July it tends to be a little quieter. So for me, yeah. Maybe that's not true for everyone.

Declan:

You know I used to always cause. I've been doing this for quite a while and I would always plan my vacations around July 4th. It was a smart time of year or or then wait until Thanksgiving or after, right? Yeah, I am grateful to have known your family, your mom in particular. For gosh, I want to say 15 years or so.

Ellie:

Wow.

Declan:

So there's, and your dad of course. I know him and he's an inspector and he's been on several, oh not even several, but many, many inspections for clients of mine. So it's a wonderful family.

Ellie:

Do you use him to do walk and talks?

Declan:

Yeah, I do Occasionally. It's been just a little while, but there was a period of time there oh, especially during the pandemic when we were all so crazy busy and the volume, transaction volume was so high that I would call your dad more frequently than I have been recently. And Ellie, you know, the thing that most realtors locally here in the East Bay recognize about you and are interested in about you is this you know this incredible social media. Following that, you've got right.

Ellie:

Yeah.

Declan:

It's really really impressive following that you've got right. Yeah, it's really really impressive. I just checked it today and there's 234,000 followers on Instagram. I mean, that's like I don't know at what level you become an influencer, but it must be. You must be in that kind of arena.

Ellie:

I mean, I don't, what is an influencer? I guess like someone who makes money off of Instagram, maybe. Yes, I guess, and I have made money off of Instagram.

Declan:

Okay.

Ellie:

Not the way that, like you know, we make money from real estate, but a little bit.

Declan:

Predating your, your life as a realtor, no, no, as a realtor.

Ellie:

Yes.

Declan:

Okay, so let's go back. Let's do a bio, first of all for people who don't know, because they generally only meet you on their phone screen. Right, you're really tall.

Ellie:

Yes, You're like what are you? Six two I'm six feet tall. I'm five, 11, and three quarters, so I round up to six feet.

Declan:

So that's the first thing people might not know about you. When did you get your real estate license?

Ellie:

I got my license. Well, it will be two years this August, august 15th. So in a month it'll be two years. So a year and 11 months.

Declan:

So you're different than most realtors in that your growth has just been very, very, it's just been very, very quick, and so hats off to you, by the way, because that's a staggering amount of information and business to handle within such a short period of time.

Ellie:

Thank you.

Declan:

And so it really truly is very impressive. Now I know you work with your mom.

Ellie:

Yes.

Declan:

So you've got help.

Ellie:

Well, nepotism.

Declan:

Well, you know, you've got some help. And no, it's not nepotism at all. Well, it's a family business.

Ellie:

It's a family business. It's the great tradition of family businesses. I don't think there's anything. I think it's great.

Declan:

I don't think there's anything. I think it's great. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. No, there's nothing at all wrong with it and you're bringing value. So this is the thing about you is your real estate, your Instagram, your social media following the value that you provide there is. It's just beautiful because it represents perfectly your whole family. Describe your content.

Ellie:

Sure, so I make videos on social media that are about construction and structural health and buildings generally.

Declan:

And you're in your 20s, I'm 29. The depth of knowledge you have, you know, it's clear that you have a passion. You have, you know, it's clear that you have a passion and it's also clear that there's something going on behind the scenes that has given you that you know sort of access to that information.

Ellie:

Yeah, my dad is a roof framer. I mean, he's candidly, he's a master roof framer and a roof framer is different than just like a regular framer who will stand walls, yeah, um, or, you know, frame the basic, uh, structure of a house. Roofs are a lot more complicated and they require a lot of geometry because there are so many intersecting angles yes, and he's not a roofer like somebody installing shingles it's's very different, so he's a rooframer.

Ellie:

So he comes in towards the end of building a house, when the walls are already stood, and he does really, really complicated geometry to cut rafters on the ground, bring them up and then assemble them in the air.

Declan:

And he's been doing that all of your life, All my life yes. Your parents are local, more or less right.

Ellie:

My dad grew up in Albany in the house that I grew up in on Albany Terrace, off of Nielsen, by Terrace Park, now called Jewel Park, but oh geez, no Terrace Park and my mom grew up in Oakland by. Park Avenue.

Declan:

Yeah, so you're the local family Totally In construction, and your mom. This is funny. So your younger brother one of your younger brothers went to school with my son and they were at Marin Elementary together and I remember way back when they were and they're your brother's brother's turned 18.

Ellie:

Just turned 18.

Declan:

Yeah, Right and so. But I remember way back when they were in kindergarten. I remember going camping up in Tilden Park.

Ellie:

Oh funny.

Declan:

I I can't remember the group camp, gillespie group camp, I think it was up in Tilden, okay, and we went with the whole kindergarten class and and I remember your mom being there at the time and she was not in real estate but she seemed to know an awful lot about gardens and yards.

Ellie:

Yeah.

Declan:

Right, that was kind of her thing.

Ellie:

So my mom was a stay-at-home mom for most of my life.

Declan:

Yeah.

Ellie:

And then she did landscaping for a couple of years, yeah, which is like pretty hardcore physical labor, I know. I think maybe she did that for two years because she loves gardening, yeah, and then she became a realtor. Yeah, yeah, ten years ago.

Declan:

So you were, you know you had this background in the family, this sort of backdrop to your whole life. You know, growing up as a kid, just this real estate stuff and were you kind of naturally you were naturally interested in construction or what, because it comes like you really sort of project this passion.

Ellie:

Yeah, so it's funny. I mean, obviously I had a career before I was an agent, right, because I didn't become an agent until I was 27 and I worked in tech. I worked at meta. Pretty soon, I had another job briefly as a copywriter right out of college and then I worked at meta for three years okay um, and so my life was not oriented around real estate or construction at all no, that's a whole different yeah it, it was a real pivot.

Ellie:

And so at that time I wasn't that was just like my dad's world, you know. But something shifted for me when it became like my job, Like I really throw myself into things, Like that's, I'm like have an intense personality and I got really obsessed with stuff. And so when suddenly my job circulated around this new industry, I got really obsessed.

Declan:

You got obsessed.

Ellie:

Yeah with, like my dad's. Like I saw that my dad had something like a unique knowledge set that I could really benefit from, and so it's been a really cool thing. It's really changed our relationship. Like I think he's wanted us to be interested in his world for our whole lives and like so none of the stuff that I talk about or that he has taught me is like totally new information, but I'm I felt like when I got my license, suddenly I paid more attention to him, like to the things that he's always said to me since I was a little kid about concrete, about framing, about roofs and you know, suddenly I cared, I guess yes.

Declan:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, let's talk about your dad for a second, because he not only is he a framer, but he's also a home inspector.

Ellie:

Yes, okay. So he framed my whole life and then he more recently sort of started to semi-retire and he became a home inspector, and he's a really, really, really good home inspector. I mean, I wish I could hire him.

Ellie:

I obviously can't, but you guys who can are lucky, particularly for buyers. Because he's so thorough and my dad understands the whole health of a structure in a different way from most home inspectors. Like, I don't have any interest in reports from home inspectors who weren't builders, because I just think that something fundamental is missing, like a real hands-on understanding of structures as a system.

Declan:

Yes.

Ellie:

I think they just kind of attended the class and memorized a lot of facts and that's all well and good and that's fine. I don't mean to be critical, but to me I think the knowledge that's most helpful is when a builder is talking to you, sure.

Declan:

Your reference point being your dad. I mean it makes it difficult for you not to you, know not to go that route. And, in fairness, we are blessed locally with a lot of great home inspectors.

Ellie:

Right, I know. Like a really high caliber. I know so um a lot of them have contractors license and yeah, totally, yeah yeah, I mean I can think of like four who I like, really like and respect and yeah so then my dad um became a home inspector, but he's back to framing now actually, so yeah, what'd you say?

Declan:

he probably got offered like some work that he couldn't turn down. Exactly yeah so he's framing like a really cool complicated roof right now in berkeley I love going out with your dad, because he's just so interested in how everything fits together exactly, and then if there's, a deficiency. Why is it there? It's like it's.

Ellie:

It's really a stream of consciousness but that's what I mean about like a holistic understanding of a building, like he's not just looking at the serial number of the furnace and like looking at the serial number of the furnace and like looking at the age of the water heater and like seeing that there's granule loss on the roof and being like that means it's midway through its life. You know, like the things he observes. See, this is what I've learned from him is how to look at a building and make observations.

Declan:

Yeah.

Ellie:

And it's like a different way of seeing the world. That and it's like a different way of seeing the world. That's what my dad has taught me and it's really fun. It makes walking down the street really fun because you notice a lot more things.

Declan:

Both you and your mom are quick to disclose that Nick is a home inspector that you probably shouldn't push your clients towards. It'd be a little weird, right, it would be a little weird.

Ellie:

It feels a little, even though my dad can't lie, can't say, can't hide something negative Sure, never would I mean. He's like the most kind of objective surveyor of a building.

Declan:

Sure.

Ellie:

And I know that to be true. I don't think it matters. It's probably not such a good look, right.

Declan:

It's not a great idea. I totally get it. But did you go out with Nick? Did you go out with your dad and shadow him when you were getting into real estate?

Ellie:

Yeah, I did, and with a lot of home inspectors too so when I first became an agent, as I'm sure you can imagine, I felt very out of my depth. The learning curve, I mean, do you remember when you first got your license? I do. The learning curve is so steep. Yeah, I have never slept more in my life. I slept like 10 hours a night when I first started because just the sheer volume of information I was absorbing was so intense. I was like it was a very intense experience for me. I was like exhausted all the time. I was learning so much, so fast.

Declan:

You did mention you're obsessive, though.

Ellie:

Yeah, yes, yeah, and I don't feel comfortable doing something, and I think this is all can really be a flaw too, but I don't feel comfortable doing things I'm not good at, and so it's hard. I mean, that makes it hard to learn something new as an adult, cause I feel really, really uncomfortable until I grasp it Right. Um, but I really really try to like embrace that discomfort, reframe it like have a growth mindset, understand that that discomfort is the feeling of getting better at something.

Ellie:

But, even so, I really want to push through it rapidly.

Declan:

So which aspect of it, though? There's so many facets to this job, I mean that's part of what was so intense One.

Ellie:

I think we all know that, like many of our systems in real estate are sort of a little bit obsolete.

Declan:

Yeah.

Ellie:

Right, I mean a little bit archaic maybe, like I mean the MLS kind of looks like the first website ever made you know.

Declan:

Especially if you're coming from Meta and you have to jump into the MLS. Yeah, I can see that.

Ellie:

So it's like learning the MLS think about every single component of a listing right. Like all the MLS data entry, running and overseeing. Like all of the improvements that you're making on a home to prepare for the market Right. All of the sort of soft skills of interacting with clients. Yes, like getting good at buyer interviews and listing interviews and understanding value. I mean that was part of it too is like I grew up here. But there is a level of geographical and regional knowledge that we have that even that a lay person who's a local doesn't have.

Declan:

Yes.

Ellie:

Of course Right, like how many streets we know.

Declan:

Yeah.

Ellie:

That's not typical.

Declan:

Right streets.

Ellie:

We know, yeah, that's not typical, right? Um, and like I mean gosh. I remember when I was brand new my mom said a street and she was like oh, it's in the slide. And I was like how do you just know it's in the slide? Like I couldn't imagine, like just knowing a street name and that it's in the slide. And now it's like of course I know the streets that are on the slide, you know what I mean, but so like there's just so so much, so much to learn, there's so much to know, yeah.

Declan:

There's so much to know and, yes, you're right. So most people getting into real estate, there's going to be an insecurity around some aspect, some gap. There's a lot of gaps in knowledge, sure, and then you know, depending on your personality type, you could feel insecure around those gaps or not. Some people don't Like some people. They don't care so much about the construction aspect because that's what home inspectors are for.

Declan:

So the job is to say you know what? I'm not a home inspector, I'm going to. I'm going to. My job is to make sure you're talking to the right person. So they don't have the depth of knowledge you have. I mean it's obscene, the depth of knowledge you have. Some would say it's somewhat unnecessary.

Ellie:

Totally, but for you it's there and it's a huge part of what you bring, the value that you bring. Yeah, I mean, I think you could totally operate as a buyer's agent and be like the system stuff is not my purview and I mean that's what I do. With loan stuff and insurance stuff, I'm like that is a world unto itself. Like talk to your lender, talk to your insurance broker, I would be doing you a disservice by I mean I can answer on a superficial level, but more deeply I'll refer, of course, and I think with those big systems questions, I operate with the caveat like I'm not an engineer, I'm not a home inspector. Those are crucial trades that we also must rely on right. Like let's get a verbal inspection or let's have a walk and talk with an engineer.

Ellie:

I do that all the time, like all of us do. But I think that it can be a lot of time and money can be saved, because I'm I and my clients are rarely surprised by what a home inspector will tell us, and so I think the situation that I can avoid with my clients is them spending the money on a verbal inspection only to be like oh, this is like wildly out of scope for us financially, like we usually have a pretty good sense of what we're going to hear, and sometimes I'll just want them to hear that from a licensed home inspector too, and for that me to be not be the end all be all. But I think that it feels really good for my clients when I've already talked through a lot of the big points and so they have a sense of the health of the foundation by the time they meet with a home inspector.

Declan:

Don't get me wrong. The value that you bring is tremendous. I mean, it really is Just little simple things that you'll point out to people. The quality of the redwood framing the house, because it's 100 years old, is priceless.

Ellie:

Also, that's just fun. That's just fun. I think that the people who want to work with me want to geek out about that stuff and want to understand their house on that level, and so maybe some people are like that is not appealing. I wouldn't want to work with a realtor who's going to be really esoteric like that, like I don't care about, I don't want to talk about that, but I like talking about it and a lot of my clients like talking about it. So we have fun, you know.

Declan:

Yeah, yeah, perfect Birds of a feather. You know, we tend to attract people who like our style.

Ellie:

Yep Totally.

Declan:

You've got a really good reach. So when your mom got into real estate, so you were at Meta and then your mom got into real estate, first of all. Is this correct? I seem to remember at one point thinking, oh, ellie is somewhat similar to Carrie Naslamondi in that she got into real estate in her early 20s, and that's a hugely beneficial thing to do when you're in your early 20s. And that's a hugely beneficial thing to do when you're in your early 20s. And people who do that are blessed because they understand the value of real estate, because they watch it grow, they see it make their financial foundation. So you did get involved with. You invest in real estate young.

Ellie:

Oh, yes, so I bought a house when I was 24.

Declan:

Which is which is young for the Bay area?

Ellie:

Yeah, it felt crazy young, like I felt kind of weird that I was doing that. Like it was very much out of the realm of what my friends were doing.

Declan:

Right.

Ellie:

But I, you know okay, so my parents lost we lost our house in 2008 when I was a kid, and that was very impactful for me at 13. And it really kind of formed. It made me anxious, honestly, about money and about having a home since I was young, and so I was very determined since I was I guess I was 12 or 13. I was very determined to be financially self-sufficient since that age, and so I remember at the time being like I am going to go to UC Berkeley and then I'm going to have a job in corporate America with a steady paycheck and I'm going to make $100,000 a year, right, that was like my plan.

Declan:

Security, security, security when I was little yeah.

Ellie:

I was 13. Yeah, so I was in sixth grade. So, whatever age that is, yeah, and I mean I did that, whatever age that is, and I mean I did that. You know, I did like steadily work towards my goal and I went to UC Berkeley and I got a job in corporate America. I made $100,000 a year and then I bought a house and I really was just like I want to be comfortable and financially secure.

Ellie:

To be comfortable and financially secure, Um, and I felt a lot of anxiety because my dad, you know, was in a physical like a blue collar job, Right, Um, and I was very I think this is maybe like oldest child syndrome too, or like precocious only daughter, I don't know Um, but I was like, if something happens to my dad that will be really devastating for my family, Like he felt my dad fell off a roof when I was seven, really injured himself, and my mom was stay at home mom, Like I said, until I was 18. And so I really sort of took it upon myself like I need to be able to support this family, you know, like I was really aware of, like my dad doesn't have a retirement account through his job, Like I don't, you know, I don't know like when we were kids, like we didn't have health care for some years of our childhood and I was really aware of that and anxious about that, you know, and so a lot of the like success I had early in my life was very motivated by fear.

Declan:

Yeah, it was informed by that. That really paints a a very clear picture of what you know, what influenced you.

Ellie:

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think that's the reality for a lot of working Americans, right Is um being like, yeah, one really bad accident away from something?

Ellie:

you know really bad happening to your family. So I bought that house and that really changed my life. I mean, I put down very, very little money. I put down three and a half percent. I had an FHA loan. It was way out in deep East Oakland. I had roommates, so I like collected rent. Um, my rate was 3% cause it was 2020.

Ellie:

Okay, um, and my whole goal was like I am going to make a little bit of money for off of this. Like I don't really love living here, it's not. It's like I don't I'm not obsessed with this neighborhood. I'm not like that into having roommates. Like none of this is sort of what I want in this moment, but I'm just thinking about this as like a second job, as a worthwhile use of my time for my future, like this is a sacrifice I'm making now for my future.

Ellie:

Um, and it really did work out. I mean, I only owned that house for two years. It really could have been not so great like buying a house and selling it two years. I appreciate now that it was I accidentally kind of timed the market Like I really did buy before things went cuckoo crazy and COVID, and then I sold it when values were up a little bit and so I made a little bit of money, but to me it was like a lot of money at that time. And then I bought the house I live in now, which is in El Sobrante.

Declan:

Yes, yes.

Ellie:

And I'm really hoping values in El Sobrante go up. I think it's an undiscovered gem. I think it's really cool out there.

Declan:

What I really like about this, this story, though, is that you're a lot of people and they're buying the first property. Is that a lot of people? When they're buying the first property, they're looking for the wrong satisfaction or the wrong value out of the first property. They're looking for the dream home. They're thinking how does it look? They're looking for the vibe, and what you were looking for was just security, and the first house is not the perfect house. It's not the forever house. As you said, it's a job, it's a stepping stone, it gets you where you need to go. It's security, security, security, yeah, yeah, no exactly I mean that was.

Ellie:

I wish I had even been like a little bit more divorced from like the good feeling of it. Like there was like some cosmetic stuff I did to that house that in retrospect I'm like I could have not spent that money. But whatever the right it is.

Ellie:

It's really hard to spend all your money on something you think is ugly and I mean I have compassion for that with my clients. But I do try to kind of um, you know, express this like the paradigm shift, the value that that paradigm shift can have. Of like, of course, it would be a wonderful thing to buy your dream home.

Declan:

Yes.

Ellie:

Because you love it and it makes you feel good. But there's another reward in delaying gratification, in thinking about real estate as an investment, in thinking about converting your housing expense into a launchpad for your future.

Declan:

Yes.

Ellie:

And committing a couple of years to a financial tool.

Declan:

Yes.

Ellie:

To propel yourself in the future.

Declan:

And in your 20s it's a beautiful time to do that.

Ellie:

It's like where are you living anyway? A warehouse Like your friend's couch, you know what I mean. Like a studio apartment, Whatever? Yeah, just renting. Where are you living anyway? A warehouse like your friend's couch, you know what I mean? Like a studio apartment, whatever, yeah just renting something with other people. Anyway, yeah, like you're renting a gross damp room, probably, anyway.

Declan:

So I don't know if you know Carrie Naslamonde, but she had a very similar story. You know a different decade, but you know she bought a house that you know it had been a crack house and then she filled it with a bunch of people to help her cover. But her life started with that investment. Was it pretty? Was it a cool vibe? No, but it was security and it launched her financial future, you know what I mean, oh my God.

Ellie:

No, I mean. It couldn't be more true for myself too.

Declan:

And so that allows you, then I know you do first time buyer seminars and it allows you to really help people get over that. You know. Hey, you're not looking for your forever home when you're buying a first house. Try and think of it differently. This can be more than that, which I think is incredibly useful. So, from that experience, how did you segue? Then your mom got her license, and what was it like? Because a lot of people, a lot of kids, when they watch their parents work, will say you know what?

Declan:

I never want to be a realtor, because they watch us work these outrageous hours and they watch us just fret around the clock over this, that and the other, because it's a lifestyle, not a career, I often say so many, many children of realtors are like you know. They're running the opposite direction. Occasionally some jump in or later in life they jump in, they go you know what maybe? It's not so bad, after all, when they've tried some other stuff. So yeah, so like how did? How did her being a realtor? Like when did yeah?

Ellie:

no, it's a good question. So when my mom first became an agent, she was so obsessed with real estate that I it was like an issue between us, like I was like I don't want to talk about this, like I don't care.

Declan:

I don't care.

Ellie:

And it's's like, it's all you care about. Now, like, yes, I was like resentful, like yes about her obsession. Yeah, um, now of course I get it like there's nothing more and she's been a stay-at-home mom yeah, right and she was chomping at the bit because she is driven as well.

Declan:

Yeah, and like I mean, fuck it is hella fun, yeah.

Ellie:

And like I mean, fuck, it is hella fun, it is hella exciting, like it is all we talk about now to each other. I mean my mom and I like talk all the time, like all day. We work together and then we talk on the phone many, many times a day about work, like we have to stop ourselves family from talking about work. I mean, don't you? I feel like I'm obsessed with work. It is all I want to talk about.

Declan:

I got licensed 20 years ago.

Ellie:

So maybe you're a little bit over it.

Declan:

I'm not over it, but I think I. I guess I've learned how to compartmentalize, Totally yeah.

Ellie:

Well, I'm still very much obsessed. So I relate now, but at the time I mean I was like 19, 20, I couldn't have cared less and I was still very much like I would never want to work for myself, I would never want to have like an unstable paycheck. Like instability is really, really scary to me. I don't want to deal with the public Like I don't want to deal with crazy people Like no, I'm very much want my night at my corporate nine to five and that was what I did right from 21 to 27.

Ellie:

But then I really kind of became disenchanted with, like, corporate life. I think many people probably have that experience Like I. I became disenchanted. I don't know I can. Like I just started to see that like I had, I feel that I had done well in my life, like I had felt like I had been good in school, I had been, you know, gotten good internships, like I had and I got a good job out of college. And like I felt like I was generally like a well-liked kid. And I felt like I was generally a well-liked kid and my professors thought I was smart and it was all because I was diligent and hardworking and smart and that those things should be rewarded, and then it was not really being rewarded.

Ellie:

Do you know what I mean, really being rewarded. Do you know what I mean? And I was like not advancing in the way that I felt I should be and the way I had in other realms of my life, and I felt like the things that were rewarded I didn't admire, like my managers and my corporate jobs.

Ellie:

I was like I feel like I'm smarter than you Like not to sound arrogant, but I just wasn't fulfilled. But it wasn't like the qualities that were rewarded or the personalities that were rewarded were what I had or what I meshed with or what I admired. That's what I started to feel like I don't admire the people who are my seniors anymore and that sucked Like I didn't like not liking my job, you know, and it's not even like I didn't like it, but I just felt bored by it.

Declan:

It's interesting. So I'm like your mom, I'm a. Gen X, and we kind of have this interesting view because we can look at people younger than us, millennials, who are in the workforce. And we look at our parents, of course, and you know, when we were kids, our parents typically had their career for a long time. They had a job. They were rewarded in the way that I think you had anticipated you might be. They were genuinely valued by whomever they worked for.

Declan:

And then it seems, and they, you know, and. And then it seems to me, cause now I've been doing this for 20 years, so I haven't been in corporate. You know I haven't played that game in a long, long time. But it seems to me when I look at millennials, people your age, especially in the last you know, five, six years, um, you know, people are just hopping in and out of different jobs, like like it's a game, like there's nobody seems to value anyone, that the employer doesn't value the employee and the employee doesn't value the employer, Like everyone's at odds with everyone and everyone's just kind of running a game.

Declan:

And it just that's how it kind of looks from the outside, which is a marked difference from what we watched. My age group watched our parents do so.

Ellie:

Yeah, I guess part of what happened was that I worked on this big project at work and then I mean, maybe this is boring. A few different things happened that just made me feel like this is like not a good use of my time and my brain power, Like I feel like a cog in like this big bureaucratic machine and like what we're producing is just what? Like money for the richest man on earth who's like stealing land in Hawaii. Like I don't want to be a part of this, you know Right. And then there was big layoffs at Facebook.

Declan:

Right.

Ellie:

And like a ton of the people I worked with got laid off. And then the whole culture just shifted from like wow, this is a cool job and we have great benefits and this is really fun to like oh, we were told there weren't going to be layoffs, and like that wasn't true and like people are being really devastatingly laid off. And then there was a second round of layoffs and it was just like the whole culture of work was everyone was really scared and then I was laid off is what ultimately happened. And so before I got laid off like when they were, you know, coming like layoffs were talk was brewing, you know, coming like layoffs where talk was brewing my mom who had always wanted me to join her, by the way, and I was like no, I'm not was like I really need a partner. I really need a partner. What if you teamed up with me?

Ellie:

And I was like, uh, maybe, you know, and we kind of gamed it out. And then I was like getting into the idea, kind of, and then I was like gosh, maybe I will get, maybe I will get laid off and it'll be kind of like cool. And then I was like no, no, it'd be horrible like universe. I'm sorry, I even had that thought. I don't want to be laid off, you know, and then I was laid off and so it was like yes.

Ellie:

I kind of hadn't. I mean I did. I had a choice right, I could start applying to other tech jobs, which I'm sure most people did. But I was like I don't want to like apply to tech jobs, like I don't want to do this anymore, and so I just God. I mean, it was like maybe that day I started studying for the test. It was such. It was like in a day my entire life changed. I was 27. I didn't have a job anymore. I started nannying and then, ironically, I went on carecom. I started I was like nannying like I had in college, literally like when I was 19,. You know, I went back on carecom, revived my like nanny profile eight years later. Yeah, I was like this is humiliating. But whatever the family, I started nannying for the guy. The dad worked at meta and had not been laid off, so it was like he wasn't laid off. I had been laid off. I was like nannying for him and his super pregnant wife and they're like little baby at like 7 a and 3pm, like really weird schedule.

Declan:

And.

Ellie:

I would study all day and do my flashcards and, like you know, it was very humbling. And then I did my test and I really, really thought I would fail my test, but I didn't fail. And then you know, four months later I had my license, which is crazy, crazy low barrier of entry.

Declan:

But whatever, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. It doesn't teach you to be a realtor.

Ellie:

It really doesn't. You're not a realtor when you get a license because you can't. This is a job where you only learn from doing it. You only learn from transacting. I mean, that's how you learn, and it's not how long you've held your license, which, as someone who's only had a license for two years, I really want to make it clear. It's not, it's how truly it's how many transactions you have experienced and circumstances you've been in.

Declan:

Right, it's very situational yeah.

Ellie:

Absolutely.

Declan:

Yeah.

Ellie:

Deep, profoundly so.

Declan:

Absolutely, so you hopped in. So I want to like segue now into, because what began for you at that point and it's really almost the most important thing for any realtor once they get licensed is I need to generate leads, because without leads you got no business right. So I always differentiate between the job of being a realtor and the business you know the having a business as a realtor, and some people are very good at the job but they're not verytor and the business. You know the having having a business as a realtor and some people are very good at the job but they're not very good at the business. And then other people are very good at the business and they make a lot more than people who are very good at the job and not good at the business.

Ellie:

So do you think the job is being a real estate advisor, a realtor, and the business is generating the leads. There's a lot of well here. What do you think?

Declan:

So there's a lot of people who, when they're in transaction, when they have a client and they're now in transaction and they're handling an escrow, they're extremely effective, they're extremely good at that aspect of the job, but they're painfully bad at generating leads. Yeah, because it sucks Because it's hard.

Ellie:

Yeah. Because, bad at generating leads? Yeah, because it sucks, because it's hard. Yeah, because we love the job and because the very people who are good agents empathetic you know people's people like lovers of the complex and the like, sophisticated problem solvers probably are also people who don't want to make cold calls.

Declan:

Well, yes, because we have this chronic condition. I think locally here, and I only know locally, but there's there's a chronic condition of not wanting to label yourself as a salesperson.

Ellie:

Oh, my God. I couldn't relate more.

Declan:

Yeah.

Ellie:

Well, I just wholeheartedly reject that. I'm like I'm not a salesperson, Like I have no interest in trying to get you to buy a house.

Declan:

Like if you want to buy a house, I can help you, but if you don't want to buy a house, don't talk to me you know, yes, and, and I, I hold the opinion that actually we are salespeople and we need to, we need to accept some version of that word into our vocabulary.

Ellie:

Really See, I'm like as soon as my clients start being like we don't know if we want to buy a house, what do you think? You know, I'll say you know, bay Area real estate is an incredibly strong, high yield, resilient investment and you have to pay for housing one way or another. And beyond that, I don't know, do some soul searching. If you don't want to buy a house, maybe you ought to not buy a house. It's not for everyone. I really don't want to sell people on buying a house.

Declan:

Exactly. But if we go back to somebody like Zig Ziglar, who is one of the great salespeople, and we try and understand, what does it really mean to be a good salesperson? It means you identify a need that somebody has that would genuinely benefit them. They're unaware of it and we help them to draw that conclusion. That's being a good salesperson. So you're actually recognizing- I like that yeah.

Declan:

Yeah, right, you're recognizing a benefit. Somebody is just not, they're not connecting the dots on it. And so you're bringing benefit to their lives and you're making a living as well. But the bias isn't towards you getting a sale. You are genuinely bringing value to somebody by helping them acquire something. Sure, understand the benefit and value in their lives, right? So sure?

Ellie:

yeah, I guess I want I have to start from a place with people where they are stoked on the idea of buying a house you know, and then which house it is. I definitely have some thoughts yeah you know, and I definitely will steer people away from a house they think they love yes, for whatever reason and to a house that I think would be better, for whatever reasons, for, you know, for their long-term goals or things they don't know yet.

Declan:

You have described your value as a salesperson right there.

Ellie:

Okay, fine, I'm a salesperson.

Declan:

You understand the value of real estate Right. You want other people to experience that Right, and you know, and if they're not the right person for a fixer, you're going to tell them.

Ellie:

Totally, and I would hope we as agents have this unique point of view, right, like, hey, listen, this is why this is. I know this seems amazing, yeah, but the reality of this is this house is too big and you're going to hate it in three months, or like in three months, or like this street. You're ignoring that it's busy but, like I know you now and it's not long-term going to be the one for you, you know or whatever that may be.

Declan:

How many people, how many times you hear people say we don't mind doing a little bit of work?

Ellie:

Yeah. Now and I'm like good, because in Berkeley you can't escape it. And that doesn't make you special, because you have to do work. You have to do some work.

Declan:

But at the same time, they're trusting that you'll know where that line is.

Ellie:

Sure, yes, totally.

Declan:

Right. And so because there's certain houses I'll call the marriage killer, I've told younger couples this house, despite your passion and interest in it, it will kill your marriage.

Ellie:

Oh my God, you will end up in divorce. I've never yeah. I know from remodeling my own house with my boyfriend.

Declan:

Yes, yeah, yeah.

Ellie:

We've never fought more than when we were sleeping in the living room on a mattress on the floor, cooking all our meals on a hot plate. Yeah, that's hard, so it's a big responsibility to be this type of salesperson.

Declan:

You know it's really really huge. Okay, so you get into the real estate. So you, now you have to start generating leads, right?

Ellie:

Your mom.

Declan:

Probably at that point she's already up and running as a realtor Pretty effective realtor too and made a name fairly quickly. I mean, I was so impressed.

Ellie:

Yeah.

Declan:

She, you know, she knew Anna Belomo, of course, and she made a brilliant, you know decision to work with Anna. Yeah, I think they were at. It wasn't even Thornwall. They were at Thornwall, right, yeah, and but you know she was great. So when you get into the business, your mom probably said look, here's a lead gen. Now.

Ellie:

So my mom doesn't do any lead gen. My mom doesn't do anything. She doesn't have a CRM, right, she doesn't. She pays for Yelp ads, okay, but beyond that she doesn't do anything and she's just is like a wonder kind, I don't know, like I think that literally the power of her referrals propels her, I don't know, but she just gets calls.

Declan:

Yeah.

Ellie:

And so I had no book of business. Obviously, I started doing open houses. That was my first thing. I was like I'm not, I'm not door knocking.

Declan:

I'm not Right. Did you ever do, or not?

Ellie:

No, I'm not doing cold call, Like it just was not for me and my mom was like no, like she just would rather die than do that and so I kind of was like yeah, I just am not cut out for that and so if that's what this is gonna be, I don't think it's for me, and no shade to the people who do that. That's incredible, truly. The veracity, the like yeah, I admire it and and now I feel like I'd actually be more open to it. But then I I just was like I can't and so I um, it was like all of it, you know what I mean Like to humble myself, to cold call and also be humbling myself to start this new job, start a totally new career, not know anything. I was like it will just be too hard on my ego, I can't. So I just did all the possible open houses I could do, okay, and at first I just picked up clients from open houses.

Declan:

Right, how important. So just you know, as far as things that are actionable for newer licensees, how valuable are open houses.

Ellie:

Tremendously, enormously. Yeah, like if you, if you are getting your license and you don't have a brokerage in mind yet, my biggest advice would be to pick a brokerage where you'll have open house opportunities, because I think the stuff that's happened for me with Instagram is really, really unlike, like, unlikely. Like the fact that it happened for me is very cool, I'm very grateful, like it's awesome, but I think it's it's like.

Ellie:

Going viral is just sort of a little bit of dumb luck and so kind of like lightning a little bit a little bit, and people can be making amazing videos and awesome content and just never go viral, and so it just may never become a big lead generation source for them, and so I probably wouldn't advise people to make that the goal. And it wasn't my goal, truly truly, it wasn't my goal, nor did I think it would happen. So I would rely on things that really are very much in reach, like open houses, and that is a crazy powerful way to meet people. I mean, it's perfect. You're in public, you're meeting people who want to buy a house. What could be a better situation if you're looking for a buyer and new buyers wander into open houses without representation as their first step all the time, it's like perfect.

Declan:

Let's talk about this a little bit. I come from a time when I got my license, people came to real estate offices Like people would walk in. Yeah, like we would have desk time. You'd have floor time.

Ellie:

Yeah.

Declan:

So at any given hour of the day in any real estate office, there was one person who had the desk, who had the floor.

Ellie:

Oh nice.

Declan:

And when people walked in or the phone rang, the front desk would direct them to you because you had floor time, so you'd sign up for floor time.

Ellie:

See, I would have been obsessed with signing up for floor time.

Declan:

People were obsessed with signing up for floor time and then, at a certain point, I don't know, 10 years ago, and especially after 2020, that just went away. Floor time, it doesn't exist. Right, it doesn't exist. So where's the only other place where customers can reliably be found? You're right, is that?

Ellie:

an open house, so they're there.

Declan:

But here's the thing though and I don't mind saying this I would always track where I got my clients from and the first five years of my career. When I look back at my tracking, I did get a lot of clients at open houses, but at a certain point I stopped, and there's just something about my energy at an open house where I just wasn't getting any clients.

Ellie:

Maybe you weren't hungry enough.

Declan:

There's the word hungry, but I knew a lot more. So this is the sales part, right? So you say hungry. Now that's very much a salesperson word, right, did you hear it?

Ellie:

Yeah, I mean, you know what I'll say, declan, when I'm hella busy at work I don't do well at open houses I'm exhausted and I want to go home and I'm really busy with my clients, but when things are a little slow, when you're looking for a sale. Yeah, or well, okay, yeah, I guess when I got to pay my bills, no. But seriously, when you, as a working person, are like I got to pull something together, yeah. Or when I was brand brand new and had no clients to speak of and no business.

Declan:

Yes.

Ellie:

Oh, I was so good at open houses.

Declan:

Have you been able so this is actionable, too open houses have you been able to? This is actionable, too, for people have you been able to examine or have the self-awareness to, to recognize what is a more fruitful open house for you Like? How do you prep and know going into an open house?

Ellie:

Okay.

Declan:

Today I'm going to impress some people and and they're going to want to work with me as a realtor, Like, like what. What does it take to be in that mindset?

Ellie:

Um, well, what started happening is that I got really, really busy at work. Like I mean, I'm sure we've all been there like working really late into the night, working 70 hour weeks, like crying at night but typing on my computer Cause I was so tired, like really busy, and then I would go to I would not take any days off and I would go do open houses on the weekends and I would just be dragging and like not feel very friendly, not feel very outspoken, kind of want to go on my phone a little bit at the open house, you know.

Ellie:

And then I would go home and be like that was a waste of time, Like I should have just taken the open house, you know, um, and then I would go home and be like that was a waste of time, like I should have just taken the day off, you know. And so now, um, I'm, I really, really seriously, I'm taking one day a week off of work.

Ellie:

I mean it's not happening this week, but I just went on vacation, but I really have to. It's like, I think, not good for people to not take any days off, so I'm very committed to it, seriously, seriously, um, and so I'm like I I just can't do it. I can't work seven days or 14 or 21 or whatever days in a row and go to open houses. I'm not going to be effective. That's not good for whoever's listing it is, and it's just like not a good experience for the people coming in and it's not a good. It's not like I'm going to generate business from that. So why am I doing?

Declan:

it.

Ellie:

And then the days I am committed to going to an open house, I, beforehand, I really just have to consciously be like you know, like I'll, I'll like have a little internal thing of like pop up, you know, like happy, in a good mindset, like you have a goal here right, like you're going here to meet people and be like helpful and engaging and that's what you're doing today, and like, if you can't do that, you're not in the mindset to do that. You've already committed. So that's too bad. Like you need to get there psychically, you know. But yeah, I think I just had a little epiphany that like um, things shifted for me, like you know. But yeah, I think I just had a little epiphany that like um, things shifted for me. Like you know, very early, early in my business, I was so stoked to go to opens and then, as things got busier for me, it kind of became harder.

Declan:

So I I often liken it to the. You know when you, when you go to the airport, you're getting on a plane. It's like the uh, the hostess whatever people are called nowadays well, I don't know the stewardess or whatever.

Ellie:

yeah are called nowadays the stewardess, Whatever yeah.

Declan:

They're at the front of the plane they're at the door. They greet you as you come in. They smile, sure, and that's kind of like some of the better people, because I like going to open houses on a Sunday sometimes more than broker tour to see how agents are greeting people. Yeah, and so some people will be right at the front door. Right, they're passing out information right at the front door and I don't do that very well I tend to be in another room in the house.

Ellie:

Yeah same, I try to be a chiller. I try to be like if you want to chat, I'd love to chat, but also give you your space.

Declan:

Right.

Ellie:

I feel annoyed when I walk in a store and people are on me. I like when people are chill. I don't want anyone to ever feel that hunger like that we're talking about. I don't want anyone to ever feel that from me. I think that's uncomfortable, you know so.

Declan:

Yeah, yeah, you're right, yeah Well, desperation has a stench Totally. And so yeah, and again, I think for a lot of people in real estate they just don't see themselves as salespeople, and so they just really don't want to come off as salesy. I mean, that's the word that people use.

Ellie:

I don't want to be salesy and you can feel when someone wants to talk to you. I think, Like I can just feel when people are like not into me talking to them and I don't want to talk to them either, then you know, or when I'm clicking with somebody.

Declan:

How have you found it, since the rules changed August 17th last year and now we're, you know, required? To be a little more mindful of maybe collecting names. Or you know, for a lot of people there was that like hey, I've never really collected names at an open house and now I feel like I'm being made to do this thing. That doesn't work for me because of my problem around this word salesperson, sure, sure.

Ellie:

I don't find it to be that bad. I mean I think that I'm sort of lucky in that I was so new when that rule changed, that that is how it's almost always been for me, like I've never not used buyer's agreements except for at the very, very beginning. And so the collecting names. I mean I'm not a cop, I don't like force people, but I just will say, oh, if you could sign in. And then if they don't, like I said, I'm not like going to be a whole monitor about it. I don't love the language on the CIR form. I think it makes us sound like duplicitous, you know. I think it makes the agent sound really bad and like the onus has fallen upon the agent as the fallout from that lawsuit. So, whatever, I have my personal feelings about that language, but overall I haven't felt like my dynamic with buyers has shifted since the lawsuit and I don't feel like the dynamic at open houses has meaningfully shifted, honestly, okay.

Declan:

Yeah, it's nice to get you, but I'm really new right.

Ellie:

So I don't know, maybe it was really different before and I don't have that frame of reference. I think conversations about compensation are good and worthwhile and good for both parties, and I think that if somebody has an aversion to signing a contract with you, they're probably not ready to sign a RPA, you know? Yeah.

Declan:

I think, generally speaking, I haven't really come across anybody who's opposed to it. I think generally the mood is here in the East Bay at least. Yeah, more transparency the better, great yeah totally. More transparency is a good thing, so give us your Instagram handle again and I'll put it in the show notes.

Ellie:

Yeah, it's Ellie Ridge Realtor.

Declan:

Yeah.

Ellie:

And my mom's a Sarah Ridge Realtor, all right, and the videos on social media. I just was copying my mom, like my mom invented the talk about structures video on Facebook. And I was like I'll just do the same thing. Doesn't she have a? There's a classic image of her where her feet are sticking up out of it.

Declan:

The classic image yeah, exactly Out of a crawl space, and her heels, yeah, yeah, you're right. Image of her where her feet are sticking up out of the classic image yeah, exactly the red.

Ellie:

Out of a crawl space and her heels yeah yeah, you're right she was.

Declan:

She was very much into that. I do remember that. God, I've forgotten about that. Yeah, that was.

Ellie:

My mom was like the goes in crawl spaces, goes and stands up on my dad's shoulders to look in the attic, you know so. So I didn't, I didn't wasn't making anything up, I just was like, yeah, this is our shtick, I guess. Like, so I'll just make those same videos.

Declan:

How many followers did you have when you first started to engage? You know your Instagram with with your real estate career.

Ellie:

Zero.

Declan:

Oh zero.

Ellie:

Yeah, I made a new. I made that account when I got my license.

Declan:

So when did you make that account?

Ellie:

Two years ago.

Declan:

Okay.

Ellie:

Yeah, when I got my license. Okay, so maybe like a little before I got my license I started going on broker's tour with my mom and I was like I'll make a work Instagram account.

Declan:

Two years later, we're 234,000 followers.

Ellie:

Yeah.

Declan:

Okay, that's amazing. When did you notice that people were just starting to follow you?

Ellie:

Yeah, what does that feel like? Because most of us don't know what that feels like, so I'll tell you what happened. I felt like, as you know, declan, our peers, like our colleagues are very good, like we work in a market of very sophisticated, smart agents, and I was like why would anyone ever work with me when you could work with Laura Rechica?

Ellie:

or Nagar I mean, and I still feel that way, you know. But I especially felt that way when I was like brand new. I was like I am less than nobody, you know Right, and I so. But I felt like I was like okay, I have one tiny little thing which is like my dad, like my dad is a genius about buildings. Yes, and my mom, my mom had learned a ton from my dad, and my mom had learned a ton from my dad. And when she was starting out, her way she kind of differentiated herself was that she was like I know a lot about structures. That's how I'm going to be different. And I just copied my mom. I just did the same thing.

Ellie:

I was like okay, well, the two ways I can be different and kind of like, try my hand at this is that I'm just going to try to be the hardest worker in the room, and I know I can work really hard, and so I know that's one thing I can do is that I can just like put my head down and hustle, you know. And so I was like okay, I can be in control of that, like how hard I work, even if I can't be in control of anyone ever wanting to like use me as their realtor. You know I can. I'll show up every single day and I still go into the office every single day, go to the office Monday through Friday, and if I don't have anything to do, I'll just listen to what Anna and Jess and Jen and you know, the other senior agents around me are doing and I'll just learn by listening into their phone calls and sitting in while they negotiate. And I mean I would ask can I be in the room while you're on the phone with your client?

Declan:

Yes.

Ellie:

Like, can you just, can you put it on speaker? Like, really just, I want to be exposed.

Declan:

You want to catch everything you can possibly catch.

Ellie:

Yes, so I was just I would go nine to five every single day, and I still do, and I think that's really important as a new agent. And so I was like I'm just going to be here, I'm going to say yes to every opportunity. The one thing I can control is just being here and absorbing as much as I possibly can and being around these other agents to try to like suck up every bit of info I can. And then I was like the other thing I can do is that I can really try to learn from my dad as much as I can, and then I'll have this like a little bit of a unique knowledge set. So those are like the two ways I can try to kind of create something for myself, like create a little niche in this highly saturated business of like really good, smart realtors. You know, um, and so I did that.

Ellie:

I, um, you know it was like very, very present in my office, uh, and I started making those little videos, um, and at first I would just kind of do like a little selfie video and it was fun. It was like I was learning stuff and I was sharing what I was learning, and you know it, um, it came very easily to me, I think, because I've been exposed to a lot of that since I was really young, you know, because it's just like that's my dad's world and my mom was teaching me a lot of stuff. Um, and then I was like these videos would be better if someone filmed. If it wasn't like a selfie, like if someone filmed them, they'd be a little bit better.

Declan:

Yes.

Ellie:

And they always kind of did well. I would get like 3,000 views or like 6,000 views. And I was like that's a lot on this little Instagram page that I just made. So I felt like that was awesome. And then I remember I saw this post, um, from a, from a, like a realtor who has a ton of like a big influencer realtor.

Ellie:

I saw this post that was like don't make your goal to go viral. And I I thought that was great. I was like okay, I really take that to heart. Like yeah, my goal is not to go viral. And that creator said in the post like your goal is not to go viral, it's just to connect with, like the small group of people in your area who might work with you. And I was like totally, um, so that was super duper. My mission like just got to connect with people in this area who are interested in houses and like who maybe feel intimidated at the idea of buying a house because they really really don't understand houses. I can teach them a little bit more about houses and then it will feel less scary to buy a house. Um, so that was like how I was going about making my videos.

Ellie:

And then what happened was I had like seven go viral at the same time like get over a million views, kind of like in rapid succession, and then my page blew up, so that's what happened.

Declan:

How did it feel and like, how do you cope with that? Because there's an awful lot of engagement. When you have that level of engagement, I mean there's got to be an overwhelming response. Is it a lot of direct messages?

Ellie:

Yeah, it was really, I would say probably for the first like four months that was happening. It was really intense and it was like pretty like, pretty like impactful on like my mental health. Like it didn't feel good. I mean it felt good. It totally felt like on a base level, like very affirming and like a lot of attention and like a lot of like positive feedback, like all those things that feel good.

Declan:

But a lot of things that feel bad. Yeah, like a lot of mean comments and like weird comments and like you know, I mean you can imagine no, I mean, I'm a, I'm a dad and I have a daughter who's just a little younger than you are. And so when, when, when I noticed that you were just blowing up like this as well my dad's side be like I'd look at some of the comments yeah like I wonder how Nick's feeling about all this totally yeah, yeah.

Ellie:

And like I mean, it was very intense at first, and so there was like a couple of times at first where my boyfriend was like you should just delete this account, like this is making you feel so bad, it's not worthwhile, and I was like, okay, I don't want to delete the account. I think that this can be really incredible. I have to learn how to engage with this in a way that is sustainable for me, and so I just stopped reading comments for a really long time.

Declan:

I just didn't read comments.

Ellie:

Good for you. But a funny thing I've noticed is that the more followers you get, the nicer people are to you. So there was this really uncomfortable growth period where I didn't have that many followers yet but I was getting a lot of views and the comments were crazy and I think it was because people no one knew who I was or like cared about me. And now that I have a little bit more of a core following, the comments are actually like I can totally read them. They're like majoritively very pleasant. I can totally read them. They're like majoritively very pleasant and like there is a cool little.

Ellie:

I always cringe a little bit when people are like building community online because I don't really know if that's like real, but it does feel like there's a community for lack of a better word of people who follow me and like really regularly watch my videos and like me, maybe like the idea of me that they see on the internet and are positive and are interested in the content. That's the most important thing Like people who follow me and regularly watch my content and are interested in it. So there's a lot more just engaging with the content and a lot less of like comments about like me being like a woman, or stupid or annoying, or like talking like a valley girl or whatever it is that people say you know?

Declan:

Right, yeah, I mean I've enjoyed. You know, occasionally I'll just take a look at the comments and it's fascinating. Sometimes there's entire like side conversations going on about construction. Yeah, you know, you get these incredible conversations going.

Ellie:

And that's awesome, right, very cool. I think the engagement that's like for the love of old houses is awesome.

Declan:

Yes.

Ellie:

And then there's always just going to be like weird stuff where you're like I don't even know if you're like a real human being you don't even know if they're real. Yeah.

Declan:

Yeah, so you broke through. Yeah, and I wanted to ask you about that because I wondered about your mental health. Yeah, um, because you know, in people's minds, you know, oh, I want to grow this big following, but being in the public eye, which you very much are, with that many, almost a quarter of a million people, you know that doesn't there's downsides to that? Mental health downsides totally, and you've experienced thoseides Totally and you've experienced those, but you broke through and you obviously have the support of your family and all that stuff.

Ellie:

Yeah, I mean, I think that what's great is that, like my dad thinks it's awesome. My dad thinks I'm a badass, he loves like helping me make videos. He loves giving me ideas for videos. It's like a fun thing for us to do together, so that feels really fun and wholesome. Yeah, my boyfriend is not on social media, thinks it's stupid, like doesn't go on the internet, but like thinks I'm awesome and thinks my videos are awesome. So he's like supports me and loves me, but is also like that's not real and like it doesn't matter, you know, and so that's a very helpful paradigm to have in my household.

Declan:

I think it is. Yeah, that sounds helpful. The other thing about your videos is that if anybody thinks it's a novelty, it doesn't take long, you know. You only have to watch two or three or four of your reels before you just really come solidly to the conclusion. Oh my god, she really knows what she's talking about.

Declan:

Like you know what I mean and that's when that's when I started to follow you more, because, like you know what I mean and that's when that's when I started to follow you more. Cause then you know there's realtors out there who are grateful for the knowledge. It's a classroom, you know it's a classroom. And then when you go on vacation and you can't help yourself, you're you're looking at the differences in construction in other areas which I always think is a lot of fun, as well, it's cool, I agree Totally.

Ellie:

Like I was just in Tucson, it was totally different. Or like when I was in Hawaii or when I was in Mexico. Those were three places I filmed videos from. It's just cool, it's fun, it's like this. I like to geek out about construction. Right, it's like a topic I'm really interested in, whether I'm talking about it or not, whether I'm making videos about it or not, I'm thinking about it, and so it is cool that I have an outlet to share that and people are into that. That's a cool thing about the internet is that you can really find esoteric niches that are super fascinating to you, that other people like you know. That's a fun thing.

Declan:

You know, when somebody looks at you and go, okay, she opened her account like two years ago and here she is now almost a quarter of a million people following. Is there any actionable advice you can give to somebody who is really interested in not necessarily going viral but, you know, is interested in establishing themselves on social media? Like I know, it's a little bit of a lightning in a bottle for you, but at the same time you must have learned something.

Ellie:

Yeah, I know I think that you're kind of getting at it talking about passion. Yeah, I know I think that you're kind of getting at it talking about passion. Um, I think that the secret that's not so secret is to make videos about stuff that you love talking about. I really do. I think that's the key, because people can feel it when you like it and you care about it. It's fun to listen to people talk about things they love. Everyone knows that like in conversations with people.

Ellie:

It's fun to watch somebody geek out on something People like learning. I like learning.

Declan:

Do you think a narrow focus is and just a consistent but narrow focus is better than like cause realtors? As you know, we wear so many hats.

Ellie:

Right.

Declan:

And every day there's so many ways we could teach on the career and on the market.

Ellie:

I think that probably, like social media experts or guides or like social media coaches or the kind of party line about the algorithm is that consistency is best and like, pick a niche, like focus on that niche. That's how you build a following. But I think, if your goal is less to, is that the goal? Like, is the goal to build a following, or is the goal to have, like, a really valuable source of social media, like to build business or as part of your branding? Like that's what I would think, is that the goal as a realtor is to grow your business through your social media? Like to build business or as part of your branding? Like that's what I would think is that the goal as a realtor is to grow your business through your social media. Right, not necessarily to grow your quote, unquote following. That doesn't convert to clients right.

Declan:

Oh, I love that you said this. I love that you said that, because it's very subtle. Am I growing my following or growing my business? You're right, so how has it impacted your business? Has it translated to growing my business? You're right, so how has it impacted your business? Has it translated to growing your business?

Ellie:

Yeah, enormously it has. So most of my business comes from social media, really yes, and is it?

Declan:

I'd just be curious to know. Is it a certain age group, or is it?

Ellie:

every age group it is. I, um, it is primarily probably people in their 30s. Okay, yeah, so probably, which is also probably the first time home buyer pool right, it's people in their 30s. But, um, yeah, I think that is my primary source of business, which is scary a little bit, cause I think anything could happen. Right, it's a. It makes me I I very much want to never rely on a single source of business, never put all my eggs in one basket. Like, instagram is awesome and I'm really committed to making regular videos and that is a great source of business for me.

Ellie:

But also, right, I never stopped hosting open houses right I never stopped collecting reviews on google like I you know, I uh always still want to like work in partnership with my mom when she needs support to meet people right and build my business in the traditional ways write my newsletter. These are all things I do and that I won't stop doing, because right I don't know the internet could, the algorithm could like not it could change suddenly support like show my content anymore, you know, or anything could happen?

Declan:

Yeah, cause we joke around that you know the uh, and this probably makes sense to you. Um, the people who are watching your reels probably don't have an email address that ends with sbcglobalnet, right, totally.

Ellie:

Right.

Declan:

And it's possible that maybe a lot of the sellers over the next decade here you know, in, let's say, in Berkeley for example, you're missing them completely, Totally.

Ellie:

They may be on Facebook Totally. So I definitely don't want to have like a one be a one trick pony with that. That's like a very real fear and concern of mine.

Declan:

So Are you on TikTok?

Ellie:

Yeah, I post my Instagram videos on TikTok too.

Declan:

Okay, cause I was amazed when Felicia Mara said a couple of weeks ago when she was on here that in her opinion, if she were to start over, she's big on Instagram. The better place that she sees broader engagement demographically is on TikTok. She feels like she feels, in her experience, people who are on Facebook or on Instagram they're all on TikTok. I have no way of gauging whether or not that's accurate.

Ellie:

Yeah, I don't really, I don't know. I mean, maybe I'm showing my age, like with this, that I'm like out of the loop because I don't use TikTok really Like I honestly I find TikTok to be like a very addicting, intense app and like that I don't want to engage with and so I just I post and then I close it because I just personally don't want to engage with it and maybe that is detrimental to my like fame on there, but I would rather like sleep better at night and like not have another thing I'm battling using, you know, so I post on there. I have 20,000 followers. I don't think I've ever gotten a client from TikTok, but Instagram.

Ellie:

I think what's really important for me with social media is long-term sustainability and liking my life, and so I only want to make videos that I think are fun to make, that are really easy for me to make, that are fast for me to make, and I just want everything about it to be like easy and fun and sustainable. So like, post it on Instagram, that's easy. Post on TikTok, less into it, you know, posting on topics I like in one take that I don't have to edit easy, fun, sustainable. You know, house tours, which I know is like blowing up as a way for realtors to like get viral or get followers or whatever. Like making those house tours could never be me, like the editing looks crazy and hard and like that just would not be authentic to myself, so I will not be doing those.

Declan:

Right, yeah, they are amazing. They're so impressive.

Ellie:

I think that if your goal is to build your business, get clients from real estate the best thing to do is this is is so corny, but be yourself, talk about what you are interested in and then trust that you have value that is attractive to your clients and they will be drawn to you. I think if your goal is to get a lot of followers on Instagram, then, yeah, find a narrow niche and just do that every single day. You know, right, and I guess that I did sort of back into that, right, but I didn't mean to do that. I meant to show up and be myself and talk about what I was interested in, and that did happen to be a specific niche.

Declan:

Yes.

Ellie:

And I do run up against that where I want to post other things.

Declan:

Right.

Ellie:

And they don't perform as well. And then I have to measure how much I care about that, like, does it matter more to me that the performance metrics are good, because it could potentially show to more people and then show to more potential clients, or does it matter more to me to post this thing I want to post? So that's just sort of like an ongoing thought process I have about it.

Ellie:

Do you have other Instagram accounts? I have like a personal Instagram account that's like private and it just is like me and my friends and my dogs and but like I don't really want to put my personal life on my work account. I think that's another way to make Instagram feel like a sustainable outlet with a lot of followers is to make it really separate from your personal life.

Declan:

Hmm, so interesting Cause. Then I know other realtors who are really just show up as themselves in their personal life every day and and so it's like watching the story of somebody's life.

Ellie:

Totally, and I think if I didn't have tons of followers I would totally do that too. But it's like I think not everybody wants to be exposed to 200,000 strangers. You know my boyfriend doesn't like, my brothers don't necessarily. You know I don't necessarily want to show that much of my house on there, you know.

Declan:

No when you. When you, no, you're right. When you, when you get to the level of exposure that you're at, it's totally different.

Ellie:

The responsibility, it's different and it's weird it's definitely weird, like yeah I definitely have started to shift like how I think about, like. Okay, I can't really be negative about this house because a lot of people are going to see this, right, you know, and so if that's a topic I want to talk about, like I need to find that in like a friend's house or in my own house.

Declan:

Yeah.

Ellie:

Like I can't talk about someone's listing. You know what I mean.

Declan:

Ellie Ridge. It's been absolutely brilliant to finally kind of sit down with you and talk about everything you're doing in the last couple of years and beyond, and I'm just very, very grateful for your time.

Ellie:

Thanks so much for having me. This was really nice.

Declan:

Maybe sometime you'll come back on when I'm on video.

Ellie:

Yeah.

Declan:

Yeah, okay, we'll do that again Okay.

Ellie:

Sounds good.

Declan:

Thank you so much. Thank you. This episode was edited by me with the original music by Chuck Lindo and graphics by Lisa Mazur. The podcast is brought to you by the Home Factor Realtors, thehomefactorcom. Catch up on the latest news from the East Bay Market in their weekly sub stack, published every Saturday. Go to thehomefactorcom to subscribe If you'd like to reach out to me with suggestions for the show or anything like that. If you'd like to reach out to me with suggestions for the show or anything like that, please just text me at 415-446-8591. Catch you on the next podcast, everybody.

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Ellie Ridge

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