Selling Joy, Dodging Drama, And The Dog In The Empty House - #67 Herman Chan

What happens when the noise gets louder than the work? I invited the ever-candid Herman Chan to cut through the hype and talk honestly about what it takes to build a meaningful real estate career right now, where brand still shapes outcomes, regulations keep shifting, and clients are more anxious than ever.

We trace Herman’s journey from corporate and TV pilots to a long, resilient practice, and why he ultimately chose local, personal, and sustainable over scale and spectacle. We unpack the three fronts agents feel most: regulatory pressure that rewrites playbooks, client dynamics frayed by post-2020 stress, and industry competition sharpened by scarcity. Along the way, we examine brand gravity, why the sign still matters at higher price points, and how broker wars and private listing platforms manufacture FOMO that most agents don’t need to carry.

Herman argues for a smaller, stronger tribe: fewer gimmicks, deeper trust, and the discipline to say no. That’s where the joy lives. He shares raw stories from the field; squatters, liens, break-ins, midnight security calls, the quiet, unglamorous work that protects clients and never makes the reels. We also talk AI without the buzzwords: where a co-pilot helps (drafts, structure, polish), where it crosses boundaries (privacy, ethics), and how to use it without feeding it your life. For new agents, Herman maps a practical on-ramp: apprentice with a strong producer, publish one consistent content lane, reduce expenses, and let your micro-community anchor your lead flow.

If you’ve felt exhausted by broker drama, algorithm churn, and the pressure to “be everywhere,” this conversation offers relief and a plan. Shrink your world, serve with precision, and measure wins by the people you help, not the likes you chase. Subscribe, share this with a colleague who needs a reset, and leave a review to tell us where you’re finding real joy in the work.

Herman Chan is a Broker Associate and licensed CA REALTOR® DRE# 001988025

Follow Herman Chan on Instagram @hermanity

Declan Spring is a licensed CA REALTOR® DRE#01398898

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Listener Request
• 1:05 Call For Anonymous Team Stories
• 2:29 Reintroducing Herman Chan
• 5:20 From Gap To Real Estate And Media
• 10:40 Why Hollywood Lost Its Appeal
• 15:45 Creativity, Content, And Realtor Pressure
• 20:45 Are Agents Happier Now
• 24:30 Society Shifts And Tougher Clients
• 28:20 News, Echo Chambers, And Burnout
• 33:45 Brand Power, Broker Wars, And Compass
• 40:50 Private Listings, Zillow, And FOMO
• 45:05 Advice For New Agents And Nepotism
• 50:25 Teams, Fit, And Brokerage Choice
• 54:20 Buyer Representation Agreements
• 55:45 AI Fears, Guardrails, And Alignment
• 1:02:30 Working With A Spouse As Equals
• 1:07:00 Hard Deals, Hidden Risks, Real Joy
• 1:12:45 Gratitude, Boundaries, And Finding Tribe
• 1:22:00 Credits And How To Reach Us

Transcript

Declan: 0:00

This is Declan Spring, and welcome to the Mostly Real Estate Podcast. Well, Herman Chan is one of my favorite realtors to follow on Instagram, and he's great fun to chat with. He might well work more hours than any other realtor I've ever met. Last time we chatted was uh in October 2020, and it was just episode four of the podcast, and he admitted to me at that time that he didn't even keep any house plants because he didn't have time to take care of them. Herman's not afraid to speak his mind. And this being the mostly real estate podcast, we talk mostly about real estate, but not always. By the way, all of Herman's contact details are in the show notes. So if you want to reach out to him, please dive into the show notes, and towards the bottom, you'll find Herman's contact info. Hey, I have a quick request for you. I need your help. I need some participation. I want to put together a podcast that focuses on teams and agents' experiences on Teams. I say I want to come at this from a different angle. I want to talk about agents who are on Teams and I want to hear their experience, good or bad. The show is not going to mention specific team names. We're not trying to call out any teams or anything like that. And if need be, I can keep your name anonymous. But the goal of the podcast will be to really share true experiences from agents who've had a good or a bad experience on a team so that other agents who are newer to the industry or who are considering joining a team can learn from your experience. I also think the information could be really useful to team leaders. There's so much variation between teams, and it can be really difficult to know what works and what doesn't, or what's going on behind the scenes. Anyway, could you please reach out to me? Could you share this podcast as well with other people who might find the content relevant? And especially newer licensees who might want to participate in this particular project that I'm talking about. I'm really easy to reach, 415-446-8591, and I'm really, really hopeful that you'll help me with this. Okay, so without further ado, here's my conversation with the ever effervescent Herman Chan. I think the levels are good. So Herman Chan, welcome back. She's here. She's back. Welcome back to the Mostly Real Estate Podcast with Declan Spring. Listen, uh, you and I were just uh observing that the last time you spoke was, I think you were episode four of my podcast, October 6th, 2020. What a different world we were living in. Yeah, half a decade just gone like that. Oh, when you put it like that as half a decade, I don't like that at all. No truth. Wow. And I had it was, you know, it was my fourth podcast. It was so much fun. I didn't know you at all. And you're just you know so generous with your time, and and I love your outlook. And you know, I was really listening to that podcast, Herman.

Herman: 3:35

Oh gosh, what did I say? I mean, I was a whole different person. I was I was a different pronoun back in those days or something. I don't know. Just joking, just joking.

Declan: 3:43

Yeah. What was so interesting to me was you're you're trilingual, right? And you travel a lot. And you know, when I listen that bank back to that conversation, you talk a lot about how business is done other places, and you kind of pressed quite a bit on how like why do we take some of the small local items here so darn seriously when you kind of have this bigger picture view of like you're basically we're saying how lucky we are to be able to operate in the market we operate in.

Speaker 5: 4:16

Is that what I said?

Declan: 4:17

You did, for heaven's sakes, okay.

Herman: 4:19

All right, so I want to kind of get into that, we'll segue into it, but let's kind of catch up. I I purposely didn't re-listen to that uh episode, by the way. Yeah, I feel like going back to meeting you right now, it's almost like if you did a podcast like your senior year in high school, and now you're five later on, you're going back. It's like, God, you're just a different person. You know, your life has changed. Four years of university or being out there in the world. Yeah. I'm really kind of curious um what we discussed last time.

Declan: 4:50

Well, you know, you never even need to listen to it. But I like what you're saying, absolutely, to your point. Like everything is fluid all the time. I mean, Christ, we were in a pandemic lockdown. Remember, the skies were orange in October that year. We were we were we were wearing masks for two reasons smoke and pandemic. Right. And and the way we were doing business was, I mean, it was it had barely taken off the peds, and here we are in a whole new world. Right. Compass owns everybody, and we have BRVCs, and you know, so but business. So let me ask you a super simple question. Despite all of that, is it still just business generally as usual? Has anything fundamentally shifted? No, not really. Yeah. No. Yeah. See, I love that. I love that. It's just it's just a simple answer, but I I kind of agree with you. Listen, let's talk to people about who may not know you. Herman Chan, you are um you're unique. And you got into the business at, I think, around 22 years of age, out of Berkeley.

Herman: 5:55

Yeah, C C Berkeley, graduated in 2000. Yeah. Um, had a very brief stint at Gap Inc. Corporate. Right. Trying to trying to be a little mis business woman out there, failed miserably. Um, and then I was like, I gotta be a boss bitch. You hated it, right? Yeah, I hated it. It was just can you imagine me being in office like just nine to five or more like seven to seven? No. No, no, so it's been 26 years. Yeah. Quarter century. Yeah. Yeah, quarter century, girl Hawking Holmes. Oh my god. Oh my god.

Declan: 6:23

Oh my god. So you got you you just hated Gap, right? You got kind of your mom suggested you get a license, right? Exactly. And you started doing, but it was always maybe a kind of an interim thing. Yes.

Herman: 6:36

But then it wasn't at some point, probably around the um the panel. Well, yeah, I mean, I I was um always kind of doing my my background was social, not social media, that didn't exist back in those days. Um, mass marketing, like mass media was my degree at Berkeley, and so I always liked TV, radio, advertising. So that was always like in my blood. Yeah. So at the time I was I had my license, I was doing lots of like HG TV and also like had two pilots that were optioned when we filmed a pilot with her in DC. So I was really kind of going in that vein under the real, but uh ultimately um I I just I I decided it was the the podcast I picked up. I forget if I told you this last time, but um, it just I just I I gave it my all. Yeah, I did the best I could, yeah. And I thought, you know what, I'm gonna just go like really, really, really full-time real estate. Although, like visually, uh optically to the public, I was always a you know, a decent producer. No one knew I had other these other things going on in my life, but in my mind, I mentally decided, okay, I'm closing that chapter, yeah, and I'm really gonna dive um in and just kind of like went deeper into it, which is maybe about like around the crash, around like oh yeah, 2010-ish.

Declan: 7:42

Well, you moved to LA when? 2000?

Herman: 7:45

Um, right when the crash happened, I think 09-ish. So I was there for maybe a couple years and then I came back. But I was like going back and forth. I was driving. Um crazy. I mean, the things that you know, when you're when you're possessed by the fame demon, yes, honey. Yeah, the crazy things y'all do, you know. Yeah, and and it's the same thing with like the money demon, some of these realtors, yeah, or people in general, the things you'll do to make a deal happen or to acquire a client. It's just no, it's a drive, just a drive.

Declan: 8:13

But you but I you know what I'm saved. Amen. But you are a celebrity in the way you present yourself. This is one of the reasons I love Herman Chan so much, is because you are like, I I just have to look to what you're doing on Instagram or on your website, and you you just you have this wonderful way of just being a celebrity in your own space. And I love and honestly, that's so sweet of you to say, but I'm a country bumpkin at heart.

Herman: 8:41

I mean, really, just a country bumpkin.

Declan: 8:44

No, but you're you're and I trust me, I I love all this about you. I'm not saying in any kind of a negative way at all, but it seems to me that you're followed by paparazzi because most of your most of your own posts are, you know, you do a lot of photo shoots. And when we did the last podcast, for example, it for you know, to sort of uh advertise that on your social media, you turned it into a whole like uh magazine cover thing. I mean, you just have a tremendous I forgot about that. You did that, you have this great capacity for you're a showman. You're kind of a showman.

Herman: 9:19

Uh life of a showgirl. Did I say man? I'm so sorry. Oh, no, it was a it was a swifty um illusion. Never mind.

Declan: 9:28

Okay, I'm on it. I'm on it. But you are, you're kind of you're you're a showman, and I and that's why you went to LA was to pursue that side of yourself, and you never lost that side of yourself. I think you just you you still I was looking in the wrong place.

Herman: 9:43

I was looking in the wrong place, and honestly, looking back, I dodged a bullet. Really? Just first of all, everyone in LA right now or in show, they're unemployed. The the it's streaming changed everything, and and um just uh you consume things online, it's not the same down there at all. And honestly, just the in order to make it in any type of like entertainment business, yeah, it's who you know or who you bl can we say that honestly can we say that on this? Whatever you like. Who you know and who you blow. I mean, and um I I just thank God that I did not like fall into that trap because I know the price that people have to pay to ascend to the gates to be open for you. I mean, you sign a deal with the devil, basically. Really? You know, yeah. And aside from that, if you're not talking spiritually and you're talking about like economically autonomy, you have so many hands in the pot that you're really just a product. You're just you're just you're the the era of trying to have any autonomy is is is non-existent. Not that it ever was in Hollywood or in the music business. I mean, just look at what happened to Diddy and all there's a there's a million examples. Nowadays people just know too much how how the business is run. You know, and so now it's um I I I'm glad I didn't do that. I I was not very comfortable being um like even on the pilot that we shot, um I mean getting I mean we're veering off to the no, I'm really interested in this. During the um pilot that we shot, um, it was produced by um the people who did logo TV, which is the gay channel, um, which is owned by MTV, Viacoms. It's you know, they're all conglomerates, right? Yeah. Um I remember during that pilot, there was I was the host, and then we had the two guests um who were gonna be like on the show with me for that one particular episode. And I kept saying, Oh, make sure you shoot them, make sure you shoot that. I was I felt uncomfortable being the center. Oh, I see. I just felt so vain to me. And I don't, I know if you're if you're born in that way where you're very self-centered and you like being the you people revel in that. Yeah. And that's where the egos get kind of cuckoo, but in general, you you have you have a little bit of that in you. Kind of like a rainmaker for a real estate team.

Speaker 1: 11:46

Yes.

Herman: 11:46

It's like if you don't, you you want the glory, you want to be out there. Yeah, you you you if you're if you're not, if you're more admin or more strategy on the back, and you're that's what I realized about myself. I'm better as a producer. Okay. Instead of being the talent. Yeah. If that makes sense. Because being on the talent side, you are being pulled a million different ways by wardrobe, by producers, by directors, by, by, but, by what the network wants. You know, it's the same thing in in in real estate due surgery. You know, when you're the when you're the front-facing personality or the rainmaker or the team lead, like you're pulled in so many different directions. Yeah. I realize this is not for me. No. No, you're so right, though.

Declan: 12:21

And it it makes me, it makes me actually look at my own interests in real estate. And I just, what a wonderful space a real estate career is to find your own joy in it. If you're if you're fortunate enough, first of all, you got to get a career off the ground, which takes a few years. But once you get into it, if you're fortunate enough to make it a career and a full-time job, there there's so much space. And I think, even since we spoke last, um, I think it's for people who are creative, because that's kind of my bend, I think it's gotten so much more fun over the last five years. I think there's- Oh, oh my feel the opposite, but it's a let's let's let's discuss. Really? Well, well, I think like I am more interested in the creative opportunity, just the personal, the satisfaction of just creating, just you know, small-time media stuff. And okay. And just scratching an itch to make small movies or do this, have a podcast. I think there's just so much room to maneuver around creatively.

Herman: 13:24

I agree. It's an outlet for creative people. Yeah, you don't have to be like Steven Spielberg, or you don't have to be like Angela Jolie or or or Jeffree Star or something, but you can like survive with little tidbits of things to kind of get your creative juices going, whether it's a flyer, whether it's agy, whether it's a little movie or a reel or a podcast. Like um, and the sky's the limit. So uh I like that.

Declan: 13:43

Yeah, I kind of like that. I think it's uh it's fascinated me, particularly since you and I spoke before, that you know, we we talked a lot and I talked a lot about what is the backbone of a career. And most agents land on referral-based marketing sphere, that's 80%. But I've been fascinated over the last few years to see younger agents building legitimate businesses out of a um a sphere on a social media channel.

Speaker 5: 14:10

Yes.

Declan: 14:11

And that to me has been uh wonderfully uh, you know, illustrative of what I'm trying to say here is the creative people. Yes.

Herman: 14:19

This is why someone like you is gonna is thriving now and doing a great book of business. Um, because you have that showbiz slash producer slash artistic vibe in you. The older school agents, yeah, they're struggling. And there's so many memes about this, about like, um, you know, I I didn't know I had to be a TikTok dancer to become a realtor now. I mean, it's basically it's almost like you have to, if you have to produce content. Yes. It's if you don't, you just are gonna be lost in the wasteland. I mean, it's it's you're you're almost being forced to. Yeah, yeah. If you don't produce anything, um you're invisible.

Declan: 14:53

Yeah, there is a lot of pressure to create, you know, be a content creator nowadays. You know, it's a whole category of, you know, but but I I don't know. Realtors have always put pressure on themselves to do what the crowd is doing when in fact you don't have to do anything but sit back and enjoy uh your good positioning with referral-based marketing if you're a career agent. I mean, that still works, right? Uh yes, absolutely. Absolutely, right? Yeah.

Herman: 15:21

So let me ask you about um There's no right or wrong way. We're all God's children. Amen.

Declan: 15:26

You have to find your joy. What do you think? I don't know how, because I don't watch them, and I don't know if you watch them either. So, but what do you think of the reality, you know, selling real estate shows that uh are on TV? Because I well, I talked to a couple of younger agents who Ellie and um Emma Dulgan and Emma, yeah, yeah. Yeah, lovely girls. They're so great and so much fun. But they, you know, Ellen said, you know, as a teenager, she was watching things like Selling Sunset. It was part of what informed her about where she might want to go after school and all that kind of thing. And it you know, I was telling her, I remember in the 90s, for me, the perception of realtors or people get in the business was like it failed at something else. And and I was wondering if if the perception of what a realtor is and what real if if there's if they're held in higher esteem now, or if those have all those entertainment shows actually made it worse for us?

Herman: 16:24

Yeah, well, this has always been the case. Like even with HGTV during the era, it was just kind of um there was a lot of backlash about HGTV back in the early 2000s. Yeah. Um, so this is not a new conversation. I think that the thing that's different now is that um the the salaciousness of it all by the way. I went to high school with Jason um from Selling Sunset. He also went to Berkeley as well. So I did not know that. Anywho, um, so I mean my point is it's it's nothing new. I just think that there's always gonna be someone who's um out there doing a thing. And if you think about it, that's just their version of doing content creation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's their demographic, and that that would not work here. There's a reason why there's no reality TV shows filming San Francisco. That's just not our our vibe here, right? Right. So they just have the ultimate content making machine. It's a TV show. Why do you think Mauricio got into doing his own show for the agency too down there? I mean, like Yeah.

Declan: 17:10

Yeah, it is. You're right. It's just on a on a grander scale because it's LA or whatever. Do you ever, I have to ask, do you ever feel a draw? Or you feel you just like feel like so free and cut free from any drive in that direction to be involved in that? Are you completely free of it?

Herman: 17:27

No, I don't want any part of it. You don't want any more? I mean, I don't want any part of it. No, I just think it's well, first of all, it's over TV. People just don't watch TV anymore. And like, um, even when you say HG TV, it sounds so old. It just says there's nothing, it has no brand equity as like, oh, you appear on it before you that means nothing now. I mean if anything, it's like it's almost saying you're faxing an offer over. It's like, yeah, it does a job, but like, girl, I guess like you know, and then like um the reality shows now, um, they just don't command the same. I think people are understanding as a consumer base that it's produced. We're we're in a new like postmodern era in media where people know when people are posting things on TikTok. It's like it's all produced, it's not really the same thing with TV. I don't think people really take it seriously. They watch it for entertainment, honestly. Right. I I I just I that's how I honestly feel. Yeah. Um people more the the public is too savvy at this point. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:20

So uh you think? Yeah.

Herman: 18:22

I don't know.

Declan: 18:23

Seems like a lot of people still say they saw something on TikTok. Oh, oh you know, like don't take Tylenol because somebody took too much. Oh well, yeah, well, that came from a different person. Um not TikTok, but uh yeah, our lovely um here. Um listen, you found your happiness in in real estate after, you know, probably sometime around 2012 and you came back back to the Bay Area and you just kind of doubled down and and got into your career properly, right? Yeah.

Herman: 18:55

I gave it all, I gave it my all.

Declan: 18:58

Yeah, and you've got you've worked so many incredible listings, and you seem to work every kind of listing. Are you still happy with real estate? I mean, it's been a long time.

Herman: 19:09

No, no, you're not. No, no, I you know, I was very nervous, not nervous, I was um trepidatious coming here. Yeah, because um the world has changed. Yeah, and not just the world, but um and you're you're kind of touching upon it with your questions in a very roundabout way, like about like pop culture and whatever, but I think what really is happening is that there's been a diametric shift in just um humanity. Right. The societal degradation is is occurring. So just as an example in real estate, and this is this is across the board, but because we're real estate show, we'll talk about real estate. Like the it's it's not fun anymore.

Declan: 19:41

Herman Without Joy wants makes me want to, you know, tear up a little bit. So Leah, let's unpack it then. Let's unpack it.

Herman: 19:48

Well, don't cry, but just know that you know, clowns are the saddest people in the world. So um that should be no surprise.

Declan: 19:54

But I think it's an interesting, it's very interesting to me.

Herman: 19:59

And I'd love to. I mean, here, I can either take this opportunity and cow the part toe the party line and just say, oh, what's great, the economy's wonderful. What's a word what a revealing and fulfilling uh business trajectory that you can have in real estate. I mean, I No, don't do that. Or I can just keep it real. Please. Um, and I just came back from a conference speaking on, you know, and uh of course I I have a cognitive dissonance situation where you're at a conference, you're being asked to be a speaker. Of course, people are paying lots of good money and flying all the wonder you they're not coming to see negative Nancy. Right. Okay, so I mean, I I I kind of felt a little um and I think most realtors are this way because no one, even to your clients, you don't want to be 100% real because the world's a dark place now. Um but you you have to kind of but here in this like safer space, uh, mind you, this will probably go out in all places, so I can't really hide what I'm feeling. But I do feel that the business has dimensionally changed, and it's basically three verticals. If you really want to cut it down, it's three silos. So like regulatorily, yeah. This thing more has changed since we last talked. That was that was the beginning of clear cooperation, and that was just the tip. That was just the tip, okay? And you hated it. You hated it. I hated it because it's it's it's um telling people how to do our business essentially. But I don't even know what my stance was. Things have changed so much, but regulatory regulatorily, things have changed so much in the past five years. Um, and it's not gonna get easier. I mean, the SB all things are happening which are just a little too much. Yeah, more change in the past 45 years than the past 40 50 years, okay? That's that's the regulatory side. And then there's the client side. Um, no personal clients of mine, so get don't get mad at me. No, no one I know personally, but from what I hear is that um the clients are there's lack of grace. Really? A lack of grace. Okay. It's a reflection of what's happening overall in society, I think, ever since some COVID or pandemic made us all very anxious, or just something, no boundaries. There's always calling. There's just no right, there's no sense of respect, lack of less of respect. More Karen's. Before Karen's were like a once-in-a-while outlier. Now it's almost like you're just gonna assume that they're gonna be that way a little bit because I just think the culture has encouraged that, yeah, allowed that it happened. So just it's just not as um fulfilling on that end because it's more difficult. And then there's the middle silo. Um, agents, times are getting harder, yeah, agents are getting less nice because we're all fighting for the same pieces of the fight. Not so much here in this area, because we're very we have a nice little community here, but like I hear stories all the time from my travels and my other, so it's just um it's getting tougher. It's getting tougher. So on those three fronts, you can't deny those things have changed. I mean, like it's it's are people nicer? No, they're not. Like, you know, is there more business to go around? No, there's not. Right. Are the are the regulations and rules um getting easier? No, they're not. Yeah. So having said that, yeah, I'm not afraid of hard work. Right. I'm not afraid of of difficult clients. Right. But it's like if they don't appreciate you and the industry is not going in your favor, and and it's just you don't have the sense of camaraderie or community with your own peeps, um, it just becomes less and less fun. That that's that's that's all it is. I mean, and I'm in a fortunate position where I I feel like I'm rambling. Am I rambling? No, no, this is I I feel like um if I were married with two children and two ex-wives um and alimony and child support payments, I would probably not be thinking about this.

Speaker 4: 23:16

Right.

Herman: 23:17

I'm thinking about how am I gonna scale? How am I gonna leverage? How am I gonna do my farm? Because I'm trying to make money to feed my family. Yeah. Or or whatever. Um I'm not in that position. Yeah. So I I have this, yeah. And I don't have to prove myself. I was listening to some of your older um guests who came here, they're hungry.

Speaker 2: 23:35

Yeah.

Herman: 23:35

And that's great. Yeah. You know, I could have retired years ago. I'm not needing that.

Speaker 2: 23:40

Yeah.

Herman: 23:40

And so I'm in this weird space where I can kind of just see this is our third recession. Great great financial crisis, yes, dot bomb, and whatever the hell this thing is gonna be called after it's done, because they never say it what it is during the time, because that's bad optics. But um, so I've seen this before. I've seen it before. Right. Um, and I'm not scared, but I am um, I realize though, like looking back when this happened last time, I was about how am I going to regroup? How am I gonna scale? How am I gonna be six smashing success? And I'm like, no, I've been there doing that. I don't know, it's not it's necessary, you know, let the young kids do their thing. It's just yeah.

Declan: 24:15

Yeah, yeah. Well, you've been doing it a long time. I mean, you know, you know, a career, you know, uh a very sort of specific career as a sales, as a salesperson, I mean, you know, more than 20 years. I mean, it every who's gonna remain as joyful as they were 15 years prior, you know, at that it's hard, but let me run something by you because it's I'm I'm getting a concern because you've said that I'm not joyful twice already, and I need to reflect on my find myself.

Herman: 24:41

Like, is it because I really have like the grime of daily living in the industry is just beating me to a pulp? Or am I just having a bad day? Because I am going through parametopause right now. So that's the one biggest difference since I last saw you.

Declan: 24:53

Well, you definitely need to give yourself, you know, the chance to get through that. But here's here's here's what here's what I think. It's it's um it's somewhat similar to what you're saying, but a different, slightly different perspective. I feel like I feel like people are really exhausted. People meaning agents or everybody, yeah, yes. I just because we got we we keep getting hit by something new every year since 2020, in particular. It's the pandemic, and and just when you think there's a silver lining, there's another thing and another, and it's been five years since you and I spoke. And it's been five years of drudgery going from one big problem to the next. And I just think agents are exhausted, keeping the chin up, keeping the smile, things will be better next year. I mean, how many years in a row can you say, oh, rights are gonna improve next year? Let's do a two-one buy down.

Herman: 25:49

Exactly. You know? Exactly. So we're saying the same thing, honestly. Yeah, we're to your point. Um, I've said the same thing as well. It's like in the past, maybe there was one disaster or one big moment in the year that a buy because the buyers can only stomach so much. If it's the election, every single conversation you have with a buyer and sellers about the election. Oh, wait till next year, wait till the next election is over. Oh, steals gets, you know, but it's the election, then it's the storms, then it's the fires, and then it's the insurance, and then people backing out. It's one, it's like there's like every month is a new war, too. I mean, it's it's just so much going on. I mean, I I don't know how people have the gumption and the and the energy. You it's like if you buy something now, you have to really, really, really, really want to do that. Yeah. Yes. Um, it's a whole new world. It's exhausting.

Declan: 26:32

It is kind of an exhausting world. And and you know, there's there's the political thing and the economic and all of that. But then on the other side, especially here in the Bay Area, you know, there's this need by you know billionaires to create superintelligence.

Herman: 26:48

And it's having this terrible beyond Bay Area, it's yeah, it's everywhere, right?

Declan: 26:53

But it, you know, here in particular, it affects our local economy and you know, those shoe-in jobs that people, you know, first-time you know, entry-level jobs, they're disappearing. Yes. Right, right.

Herman: 27:06

So I I see why um well, this is something that we won't talk about. It's first of all, like China has we're in an arms race now with AI with China at this point and other so it's not just in a uh Bay Area USA thing. That's the first thing. The second thing is um the the discussions about oh, taking jobs away from something like that. That that is while that is true, yeah. I think what's people are not talking because someone told me yesterday, oh god, if Elon were just wait, white property basically the earth, things are so much better. Or same thing when people say, Oh, I wish 47 would be out of the office of things, but you know, you think that one person is going to cancel all of the government contracts between Palantir and all the governments from the world. I mean, y'all are so dumb. I mean, like, really, that it's so much bigger than that. It's about um a movement toward a police state, essentially, because that's what AI is really about. Digitation of identities, right, digital currency. It's all shifting towards like a police state. It's very Orwellian. So when people are talking about, oh, well, the poor worker, that's the least of our concerns, honestly. Um, but you know, if that's what's relatable to the average Joe Schmidt. But if you ask a regular person on the street who palantiers or Peter Theos, they have no idea. They have no idea.

Speaker 4: 28:15

Right.

Herman: 28:16

Government contracts, with what say what meta? Say what they have no idea. They're still trying to figure out when someone pokes them on Facebook. I mean, much less understanding what happens on a global financial technology implication conversation.

Declan: 28:30

So I I appreciate that this stuff worries you when you think about it.

Herman: 28:35

Yeah, I I think about it probably too much. Um, but it it's right. I think historically you would think um, even during the pandemic or even during the first like um 45, like, oh, we'll just wait till the next election or what we'll march on Market Street, yeah. Uh you know, change our little IG profile to a black screen. Yes, girl, I mean that I mean uh hope was so the problems are so much more embedded. It's not like a left or right thing. It's just so, it's it's part of the economic system.

unknown: 29:06

Right.

Herman: 29:06

I mean, if you want to call it lace age capitalism, you can call it that if you want to, but it's it's really it really comes down to that. And it's global. It's global. It is absolutely global. I mean, if you look at all the um countries which are kind of going through very similar things, like uh everyone's moving towards a um totalitarian. Yeah, they don't say that, but what they're trying to do with all the digital, the AI, it's really just a function of trying to try it's I I'm not I sound like a conspiracy theorist, but no, it's it's it's a it's a fact. I mean, like when you have everyone digitized and AI'd and identity, everything is like China and Dubai, they're so safe because everyone you you can't commit a crime there in a few seconds because they're they they have facial recognition like everywhere. And you know, you can't if you say something wrong or not pleasant on social media, they shut off all your digital you can't buy anything.

Speaker 2: 29:46

Yeah.

Herman: 29:46

Kind of like what happened in Vietnam, you know, just recently the 86 million accounts were just like deactivated overnight. Like, I mean, people have no idea what what could really happen, you know. Right. Um and people always say it's never gonna happen here. Well, I don't know, it was just I I just think we do a better job of hiding in here. Because we distract by like, oh, it's Trump, or oh it's, oh, it's um, oh my god, like the Gulf of Mexico. And we always fall for the bait. We always fall for the bait. We are so gullible, okay? Oh my god. The Smithsonian is not gonna be the money manager. I'm like, y'all, there are so and y'all just fall off for it and talk about it for the next five days. I'm like, Lord. Yeah, it's just big picture people, big picture people.

Declan: 30:29

Yeah, that's one thing that 47 is really good at. He is he is a great showman. He knows he knows how to distract the crowd. Yes. He really knows how to you know put a shiny object over here while this is going on over here.

Speaker 1: 30:42

Exactly.

Declan: 30:42

So yeah, you don't sound like a conspiracy theorist. I actually I I recognize your concerns. I have them as well. And well the earth is flat too, you know that.

Herman: 30:58

JK, JK.

Declan: 31:00

But I these things are out there. And yes, to some people, you might sound like you're you know going off into tinfoil hat kind of, but you're not actually.

Herman: 31:09

I I think anyone see I'm a news, I was a MASCOM major at Berkeley, so I my love is news. I'm always consuming news. Okay. And this is why I always my social media stories are always so new. People are like, oh my god, I don't even watch the news anymore. I tune into the Hermanity News Network. Um but that also shows to me, well, first of all, I'm flattered by that. But number two, that God, if you are not even being aware of what's happening culturally or economically or governmentally, in your own area, or even the or I I that's really a sad state of the world that you're relying on some little ding down like me to your for your news. Um What do you listen to?

Declan: 31:47

What podcasts do you listen to or where do you I watch everything?

Herman: 31:50

I watch and I think this is why I um I'm a little bit more measured in my point of view about things, um, because I do I watch everything, I consume everything. So Lefty World, MSNBC, CNN, um Rachel Maddow, yada yada yada. And then I I listen to like um what's that what's that guy's name? Um Joe Rogan, Candace What's her face? Candace Owen, Candace Owens. I listen to everything. And in the what the funny thing is, um you have to parse over like 10 sources to get what the real story is. Yeah. Because if you see something covered for the same day by two different, three different people, it is like vastly different. But in the era of social media where they silo you on purpose, yeah, because they don't want you on that side. They want to keep, you know, so they they they echo chamber it. So most that's why most people don't even know what the other side even is. This is why humanity is so difficult. You can't have Thanksgiving dinner with like your parents who feel differently about you because it's oh my god, my my so-and-so voted for Trump. Like, I mean, this is no different than the 60s about the war. I mean, that you you have to find a way to to to relate to people and to be human, to have empathy, but that just doesn't that doesn't exist anymore. We're so we we love to live in our little echo chambers and we love to monetize that off of us, and we just fall right into the trap all the time. Most people just don't want to believe that it's really that bad. Because they you feel it. If you I mean I talk to everybody like Uber, I love talking to Uber drivers. I love talking to waiters because they're they're like the backbone of America. That that just just people who are like they're trying to make it. Yeah, um, their stories are so harrowing.

Speaker 1: 33:23

Wow.

Herman: 33:24

And um, I yeah, it's the the the vibe is not everyone's struggling, you know. Inflation too is really hitting people really hard. But then you see these things on the media about like, oh, the economy is booming, oh, the stock market's a record high, and like it's like as a regular person, you're so confused because you're kind of being gaslit. Yeah, it's like the vibe check kind of the the the the math ain't mathing girl. Uh uh okay, but um, hey, you know, the news says it's uh, you know, it's I'm I must be then it must be me. I'm not doing enough. And then it kind of spars people off into like loneliness and feeling insecure about themselves and just despondency. It's just kind of like um right, you know, I I I just you're kind of disillusioned with things right now. I can't really. I'm so disillusioned. I am so disillusioned. Even the stats they give us are just unemployment's four percent. Oh my god, you know, the method again, you have to understand the methodology of how they're pushed. No, they're not counting people who've been looking for jobs for a long time. It's all this, all these numbers are all it's just like the more you know, right um, the more um burdened you become. I wish to God um I was a ding dong. Because ignorance is bliss. Ignorance is bliss.

Declan: 34:31

So so so work with me here. How can we use this career that we enjoy, right? Because I I I believe there's a lot of people whose head are where your head is. And I think, you know, maybe they don't admit it, but like if we admit that we're exhausted, if we admit that things are not as they're being presented, but we don't know exactly why, because we're not privy to what's really happening, etc. But we know that we enjoy this career to whatever degree. What can we what can we do to to at least make our small world uh something more useful and quick question?

Herman: 35:12

Um and I am coming off sounding like a um depressing Deborah or negative Nancy or but I call it I call it realistic Rita. Realistic Rita. Um I think it comes down to right now. We're entering a techno-olligarchy environment, okay? It's techno feudal feudalism, and it was predicated upon uh mass data, big user base, always acquiring. That's what always billion dollar unicorns. It's not really that they're value, this is all user bases, just trying to get scaling, right? So um, and the same thing with like on the more proletariat level, oh, get many viewers and get many uh followers and follow me, and you know, it's it's it's right, it's it's idolatry. It's basically idolatry.

Speaker 5: 35:58

Hmm.

Herman: 35:58

And so I think right now, and I even the younger generation I feel is starting to get burned from this. Like the the millennials who are kind of growing in the area of IG, they're all about amassing these bigger platforms and and but the younger they are like they don't want to be they they first of all it started with disappearing stuff. They they're posting things with disappearing because they don't want to be beholden to something that you know, that's the first thing. The second thing is lots of private networks, yeah. Lots of like smaller, closed-off networks, or circlosed circle of friends. They're not about trying to like post on a Facebook post like tangent years ago, oh I've got 10,000 files on Facebook, you just posted it nobody out there in the universe. They're not about that now, you know. And then it's also about migration off of social into like small things like like Twitch and Discord and Reddit. There's a shift happening right now, and I think that's all of that. I'm right and I'm rambling again, but um, all of that I think is a function of just trying to find your own little tribe. Yeah, yeah. Because if you just take away the past 20 years, pre-internet and pre-social media, we were basically living a tribal life. You just knew everybody in your little maybe 10 mile radius, right, and you took care of them and vice versa, and you went there was there was a more of a sense of a community. Yeah. We tried to expand the notion of community as your follower base, right? Which is so toxic, it is, it is and so ephemeral. Because, you know, I know people who grew huge followings and they said one wrong thing, or someone reported them to three strikes or out on YouTube, but all of a sudden, your community, right, your commun gone.

Speaker 4: 37:20

Right.

Herman: 37:21

Over and who are you? You're nobody. Right. Right. Yeah. So um I I just think going back to your family, your your close friends, right, your trusted, um, valuable clients, people who are your your tribe, because there's no way you're gonna even from a real estate standpoint, you're not gonna sell 10,000 homes a year. Right. You mostly if you sell a good 10 to 12 a year to people who are the best people in your life, you're golden.

Speaker 2: 37:44

Yeah.

Herman: 37:44

And you're have a better mental state too. Yeah. So it's about retraction. And this is a thing about the you started this conversation about like TV. I'm not about pushing that. I I I want to I'm retracting. It's about being local and and personal and and um staying with the people who are um the most valuable to you. And everyone else is just trash. It's just just noise. It's just noise, yeah.

Declan: 38:09

And and but and this is this and this has always been a problem for realtors. You and I both know that we're we're so we're so uh we're so a lot of us, uh especially in an earlier point in our career, we're so vulnerable to sales gimmicks because because as you and I talked a lot about before, we're 1099, but 1099 does not make an entrepreneur, right? And but we're told we're entrepreneurs, but mostly we're not. We just want to be employed by somebody and sell or buy a house. Yes, right, right. And so so this constant pressure to be doing what everyone is doing is is the I think it's a terrible chokehold on on people. And it's and when you can just double down on where your joy is, which is right, right? Just reaching out to your community of people, you have to find your joy and just stop thinking you're missing some gimmick that's gonna ten times your career, ten times your pay, right?

Herman: 39:12

Yeah, you miss the Bitcoin, yeah, you miss the crypto, you miss the dot bomb thing. I mean, like you're gonna you'll be fine. You'll be fine. Yeah, you know, it's just um, but we're we're tribal creatures. Yeah, we like to be a part of something. And um, if you don't have the fortitude or the inner zen to let things pass by, um it's a power of saying no, basically. It's like when you meet like a seller who you know is bad news, yeah. You know they're gonna be Dululu and they're not nice, but you just in your heart think, oh well, could that paycheck could be separate? You know, no, just walk away. It's really not worth it. Right. It's really not and I having I'm saying that I know it's a place of privilege because I'm obviously established, but like looking back, even when my earlier years, like I just it's not worth it sometimes. Right, right. Right.

Declan: 39:58

I I I fully agree with that. I mean, absolutely. And it is a privilege too, sometimes. Yes. Just refer to someone else, your your worst enemy in real estate.

Herman: 40:07

Oh girl, you know I'm a hiatus. You want to take this over for me?

Declan: 40:12

So when you travel around, you do all these uh you you're on panels and you're you're you're kind of sought after as a speaker, right? And so what are the panels generally and what are you being asked when you go on these panels? Is it for educating younger uh licensees or newer licensees?

Herman: 40:30

Most people who go to conferences, um, and this is not something that they would widely publicize, is are they aspirational? Yeah they're people who are going there to learn, to be exposed. They say it's networking, but really it's yes and no, but really um to make the ticket sales, you're either selling them to corporate sponsors who buy tables, yeah, um, or new agents or people who are just into the business who are looking for something to learn. It's all you know, it's usually like A-list panels or like top producer panels. How did you get to start? It's stuff that you asked me last time, basically. Like, how do you get started? Right. What are best practices? What do you regret the most? Right. Um, people love stuff like that. But I was just on a panel with Kenny Fast, who he and I do totally different business models. He has like 200 agents, you know, I'm solo lone wolf here. Um, he he's all about teams and leveraging and growing and yeah, you know, the EXP model, and I'm you know, a little miss old school here. So I mean it's very interesting to see how people still but the my all my takeaway is like no matter how what you do, there's a different way to do business for everybody. So you like I said about news sources, you have to pick and choose what works for you. Talk to everybody, right? Talk to everybody. Yeah. If you like door knocking, fine. Right. You gotta try a little bit of everything and see what works. I tried door knocking and I almost got shot. So I'm like, no, girl, I don't think so. Mailers, I did that in Berkeley. I get so many phone calls. You're chilling tree. I'm like, nah, I'll pass on that. You don't do farming at all?

Declan: 41:53

No, no, no, no, it's yeah, there's a there's a lot of mailers going out there. I know. All those portries. Yeah, yeah. So it really just comes back to the referral base thing.

Herman: 42:03

For me, it's for see, so I was again, again, I'm very pretty. I was born and raised in the Bay Area. Yeah. I went to college. Everyone who I know for 47 years of my life is here. Yeah. If you told me I moved to Wyoming tomorrow to start a new career, I wouldn't know what to do. Right. Well, I know what I would do. I would say, ma'am, do you want fries with that? Ma'am, do you want fries, huh? I wouldn't know where to begin.

Declan: 42:26

Yeah. But yet here you are, you know, going around the country doing panels and telling people, you know what, best practices and how to build a for myself.

Herman: 42:36

I mean, I I always tell I have a caveat. It's like, you know, just you need to resonate with what your personality type is. Yeah. Um see what works best for you. Yeah.

Declan: 42:48

So absolutely. What about um, you know, we talked before about how important a brokerage is. And it seems to be one of those questions that really is very, very important in a person's first few years. Now they they often don't get it right the first year or two, but but within time. It's like your first date or something, your first girlfriend, you just say, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you you start to recognize what the problems are and what maybe you need to find something better. And so uh for you, um it it was even more Sotheby's turned out to be uh like extremely important for your business because I think of the uh recognition globally and because you're trilingual and again, back to me, yeah, that fits me.

Herman: 43:36

Yes, because of my national, international background and just I think just my clientele. Yeah. Um, if I was just selling in a five-mile radius to my PTA, yeah, not the same value add. Um you have to do what's right for you. Yeah. So uh yeah.

Declan: 43:52

And and and of course, before when we chatted, and I'll just go into this just a little bit, even though you know, obviously there's only so much that we know, but now the compass has has acquired anywhere, which uh, you know, uh Sotheby's is part of. I'm not gonna ask you to speculate about whether or not they'll keep the brand or we don't know any of that stuff.

Herman: 44:13

But how does You're gonna ask me what do you want?

Declan: 44:15

I mean But what do you what do you like what do you think of this desperate need to battle Zillow from the compass side, these wars that are going on.

Herman: 44:27

Um well there's I mean I could talk whole hours about this issue.

Declan: 44:30

So I mean, so um Well, here it just here's the thing is me personally, I'm just trying to sell houses out there. Right. And and at the same so I find that because we're in such, we just literally we opened our as soon as we open our phones in the morning, we're we're basically standing in front of a fire hose, and the the amount of water is spraying out of that thing, it just pushes you off your feet from the minute you wake up. Yes, and and and that fire hose of information in our world will now uh lead us into all these broker wars, yeah. And I'm just like really doesn't matter to me as an agent.

Herman: 45:07

What was your first question you asked me? Have things really changed that much? No, not really. I mean, right, but if you want to me go into the rabbit hole, I will engage. So, um, first of all, I don't think the deal is completely done. Okay. They're merging, it's gonna be a behemoth. Yeah. I mean, there may be some regulatory issues, it's almost gonna be like a monopoly to a certain degree. It may be argued as that. I don't know if that will be, but it has not really fully been approved. I think it's in the works and they've announced it obviously, so it's clearly but it hasn't really it may have to pass judicial muster, but that's that's my personal take. I can know why. And by the way, I'm not on behalf here on behalf of anywhere or southern bees or whatever or compass. I just know you're this is my personal pontifications. So that's the first thing. The second thing is um um uh anywhere they had so much debt, there was nowhere to go. I mean, honestly, where where are you gonna go? Like there's nowhere to more expand. You can't expand anymore. The market is contracting. Um we don't do go out into office anymore. What what are you doing? Franchising, no, that that's like so 90s. It's you know, so um it the only way they would ever exit is if some major, major crazy behemoth like Google or real estate by Amazon or or whatever, you know. I mean they bought Whole Foods or something. It's it's it's that that would be the only way to exit. Right. And so there's this person here who I think is wanting to make a name for himself um and kind of under dire straits because he's just lost a lot of like social credit at this point because the whole like private listing thing kind of like backfired on him, I feel just from a like a political don't no one at Compass will say this, obviously, because that's they have you know drinking the Kool-Aid, but like in general, I think he misfired on that. I think he I think he he overshot his shot a l a little bit. I don't think there's gonna be so much lawsuits and low back and whatever. So anyway, so um and also that's the first thing. So I think just getting uh anywhere to get published numbers and and they want to be bought, I think, because they just have nowhere else to go, frankly. Um, number two, or number three rather, um I I think his acquisition for Christie's they got Christie's too, right? Um I think that was his because here's the thing, I'm gonna say it right now, Compass, and there is a local broker who I will not name, but he was quoted in the real deal recently. Yeah. And if you look it up on Google, it's like um compass is the the Walmart of real estate. Right, I know exactly. Um and um I don't disagree, and that's actually something that has said me for many, many years as this was happening. Right. No disrespect for y'all compass friends, girls, okay, but you know, it is what it is. Um, but I just think became they they they became their tagline is um compass everywhere. Well, so is Walmart. Okay, so because they wanted to be in their in their whenever you scale something, yeah, everything is flattened. Right. And so, and especially as you have to have more and more um acquisitions for aging count, yeah, you have to bring basically everybody in. Because in the beginning it was oh exclusive, and we're gonna bribe you. I mean uh signing bonus, indeed, you know, it's they were that was the beginning. That was that was the Uber playbook, too. We're only gonna do rides for black limos and and and upper east side moms to to deliver their children. That's how Uber started. Okay. It's the same playbook, honey. It's you know, but now that it's all been like proletariatized, if that's a word, um, they're losing their lux, their feel. It's not shiny anymore. So I think that Robert um tried to thought that Christie's was possibly gonna help him elevate. But Christie, I don't know, Christie's just doesn't have the same, it's just not the same vibe. I I think that he really came after um anyway, one of the biggest benefits was acquiring the Sotheby's brand. Because there is no there is that that name is synonymous around the world. Like in yeah, it's just there's no comparison. Um the other brands, I don't know what will happen with them. I think they'll probably either be left alone to just do what they want to do. Probably, right? Or if they have the option, if you want to convert to a compass, then so be it. Um but I think they he bought it for the name brand for the Sotheby's, but that's always been the crown jewel for anywhere. Always been the crown jewel. So it's that's yeah, I think that's yeah. So hopefully that's a long answer, but no, no, it's interesting.

Declan: 49:05

Hopefully, life at Sotheby's won't get won't change for you, and you, you know, it'll continue.

Herman: 49:11

I don't see people are so like I don't understand what the quest. It's just like when Gucci, you think Gucci family actually like designs their clothes? No, it's like they were conglomer they were corporate. It's the same thing, Hallsted I I mean it's you're just handling a brand.

Declan: 49:25

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, you're just handling a brand.

Herman: 49:27

Let's just be honest.

Declan: 49:28

And the brands do matter, you know. There's a fascinating conversation with you. Remember Alto? Um, it's like about before the pandemic, you see a lot of listings by Alto.

Herman: 49:39

Well, yes, they were, I think, local East Bay boys who started and um they went to Marine for Yeah, yeah. And then their whole Clear Cooperation thing kind of ruined the whole business model.

Declan: 49:48

Yeah.

Herman: 49:48

What about them?

Declan: 49:49

Well, there was a uh it it failed. Clear cooperation killed them.

Herman: 49:53

Yes.

Declan: 49:53

The uh the guy who founded that was on uh Mike Delpredi, uh is uh is a guy in Colorado who does uh who study, he's a professor at University of Colorado. Um and he he teaches aspects of real estate business, but he has a really interesting podcast where he talks to like important people. But he was talking to the founder of Alto about about why what are some of the reasons it failed. Yeah, I thought this was this was a really interesting one. He said that people selling property, even though Alto could demonstrate a massive savings, 30% or more of their potential sellers eventually were like listing with a brand. And he said the higher the price point of the property, the more the brand mattered.

Herman: 50:48

Yes.

Declan: 50:48

And that was part, that was something they didn't see coming because they thought that the value they were offering would overwrite that. And he says, that's ingrained in people.

Herman: 50:58

Yeah, um, brand matters. It does. Why do you I go to these conferences and these girls and be like, brand doesn't matter, it's all you. I'm like, girlfriend, do not lie to my face. Uh-huh. Because if that's the case, you wouldn't be wearing a work-in, not sporting a Birkin. I mean, if really brand doesn't matter, girl. Right. $200 at Walmart, why would you pay $20,000 and flashing in front of all the little industry friends? Right. So brand tell me, brand doesn't matter. Tell me.

Declan: 51:29

We're funny humans, aren't we? We're kind of funny. We don't notice our own contradictory nature. Yeah. You know, so I thought that was fascinating. But so here's something that's on my mind though, legitimately, and I really haven't thought it through, but it's like when I think, okay, uh, everybody is compass, and I kind of just do the math in my head, back of the napkin. And I think if we have, let's say, in an urban area like the Bay Area here, if 30% of agents in this area are will be essentially compass agents, and they're pushing the they've got the private listings, and they're 30% of the agents, like that makes me think I should be thinking. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't want to feel, but then you feel like there's a coercion because like I don't want to get locked, like that's problematic.

Herman: 52:21

This is a very long conversation, so there's so many things to talk about. Um, so first of all, you you're you're right. The it depends which geographic region you're talking about, SF, like campus is owned 50% of the agents there. So they it's and not by like a merit, right? By acquisition, okay, and that's fine. But the fact of the matter is, like, half the agents in SFR are compass now.

Speaker 1: 52:40

Okay.

Herman: 52:41

Um, that's fine. So um in other in other neighborhoods, not so much, okay. So I mean in other cities, not so much.

Speaker 1: 52:47

Right.

Herman: 52:47

Um, so to your point about it feeling like you're missing out on potential exclusives. I mean, I believe compass themselves said that like the majority of them do not sell off of a private listing that the era, you know. Right. It's like a pre-buzz thing. I mean, statistically, they do eventually hit the MLS. Right. But you know, you're right, you are missing out on a couple of things that may be the one that your particular buyer is looking for. Right. Um, and this is why Zillow said, Oh, we're not gonna have this. Nice try. All right. Yeah, if you try to put your compass listing privately, yeah, and you go publicly later on, blackballed. Yeah. And Zillow, and I don't think clients realize Zillow controls like 80% of real estate traffic. Yeah, they do. So, yeah, exactly. And so yeah. Yeah, so now there's a whole lawsuits back and forth. It's just it's it's a huge mess. It's a huge mess.

Declan: 53:39

So, so what I was saying earlier was like all of these broker war, you know, BS that's going on, it's not BS. I mean, for some people, it's huge money, it's massive. But as an agent, boots on the ground agent, an awful lot of the time, that really shouldn't be occupying any space in my head, except for this one aspect of things, where legitimately in our corner of the of the country, our little our little market here, that's the one part that keeps me. The private listening. Yeah, just the the the just the the volume of agents locally who are compass that it does it does impact the market I'm working in as an agent. Yeah. Um, so what do you think? How does it impact you? Like you're saying. Well, like what do I do about that? I don't know. I told you, I hadn't thought this through. I'm just it's on my mind.

Herman: 54:24

Like, how do I think about this? I I really think that although they're offering it, I don't know if people are really doing it as much. Right. Because statistically, like I said, it things are not necessarily the majority of things which are launched off that platform don't sell privately. They do eventually go public. Okay, that's the first thing. But even if you didn't, like, do you really want to put your seller in that position where you're like, oh, I can't launch now because you have to switch to Sotheby's now or something because I can't represent you because Zillow is banned. You're a listing.

Speaker 2: 54:52

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's very comfortable.

Herman: 54:54

That's a very common. I mean, if I was a compass agent, I'd be feeling very uncomfortable with that conversation. Because how do you justify that?

Declan: 55:00

Right. Yeah, that is sticky too, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

Herman: 55:03

Yeah. Well, I I you know what I won't let it occupy too much of my space. I'm I'm gonna I well here's a here's a little copy, because I know I've love compass listeners out there and whatever, but like in Zillow users, but um the bottom line is I don't think they're they have the time to chase after you. Right. I think they have bigger fish to fry. These are all just kind of like distractions in a way, and they're like posturing. Because you know, you notice like, you know, compass does one thing and then Zillow launches a lawsuit, and there's another one, and now Zillow and Redfin are being sued by the FTC for something. It's it's always something. Right. You know, and it's like I'm just gonna sit here with my bag of popcorn and watch y'all just devour yourselves. And I'm just gonna watch a show. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, it's it doesn't really bother me.

Declan: 55:47

So it shouldn't because this is this is my my and my instinct is that's what they want you to do, Declan.

Herman: 55:52

They want you to feel like FOMO. So, oh, join our brokerage then. Or it's it's basically it's it's it's it's the same thing. Right. I I just don't think it's I think if you're a broker owner, yeah, different story. But if there's an individual agent, it doesn't really concern you that much, honestly.

Declan: 56:06

Is it just this noise problem? Is that the problem? I mean, I because it seems to me like uh an awful lot of the problem is noise, but that noise is it's just it's like you know people who have tenabris and they uh are I think that's what it's called, they're that ringing tinnitus. Tinnitus they have tinnitus, it's just constantly there, it wears you down. It feels to me like that's what our world is like nowadays, and this is why we're all so tired. It's just this constant noise.

Herman: 56:32

Um this is why people get off social media now. Yeah, it's just it's just too much. We're on the phone all the time, being indoctrinated or sold to or advertised to. Why do you think all of the mega tech billionaires don't allow their children to have smartphones? Yeah, they don't, do they? Think about that. Yeah. I don't know what I would tell. If I had a niece who was like 22 years old, yeah, and wanted to get real estate, I would say, are you sure? Are you sure? Um which is why I admire. I mean, this is what uh Emma and um Ellie were kind of talking about. They they came in at a certain time during the peak and they're going through a little and I by the way, I was so appreciative of their honesty. That's the one thing about these younger agents, they just let it all hang out. Yeah, the older, old bitty realtors from maybe prior to our era, they're all about just pristine, just so the veneer, girl, just drop the mask. Drop the mask. Okay, we're all in the same boat. So I really appreciate that that interview you did with those two. But to their point, yes, if I'm talking to a young person, a young agent, yeah, girl, you better pray to God your auntie is a top producer. Yeah. Or because we now you know you see there is a rise of the Nepo baby uh aging here. I'm not blaming them. Okay, I mean, if that's you go up there, you graduate, yeah, and you see how hard it is out there in the real world, yeah, and all of a sudden mommy, daddy, uncle, nanny has like a nanna has a Rollodex of just stuff, even if you get a fraction of that, you're getting exposure, you're getting, but you know, it's why wouldn't you? And so this is why it's almost like the only way you can succeed as a young person is through nepotism. Because how would you do with the in the olden ways? You would do the door knocking, you would do the you know, um, social media, uh cold calling, but those things don't it's no, and and back in the days, build a social media brand. There's so much noise now you can't break through. Back when only a fraction of the people were doing it, yeah. But now even grandma Moses, even homeless people have TikTok accounts and are socially searching on Zillow right now. So to break through. This is why I really admire Roland, yeah, who's able to honestly, and he's just baby too. I mean, like, how do you do that? Oh my god. Like so it is possible. It is possible, but I know how hard he grinds. So it's yeah, he's driven.

Declan: 58:45

He's he's a yeah, the you know, there's always people who break through, but yes, you need, you know, and then and then they're inspiring for the rest of us, you know. Absolutely. We need that inspiration.

Herman: 58:54

Yeah, we do, we do. I don't know, but I think this is why here's the young here's my final thing about young person. If you're not a Nepo baby, um you have to reduce your expenses. And if you truly, truly, truly want to be in the business, yeah, you need to find an old biddy who is basically got the got the door and needs your tech savvy or whatever because you you're never if you join a team, yeah, you're always gonna be so-and-so's teammate.

Speaker 2: 59:21

Yeah.

Herman: 59:21

I even to this day, people who start on teams 10 years ago, in my mind, yeah, you're still so-and-so, it's like so-and-so's little sister. In a way, you you it never leaves people's mind. Okay. So it's very difficult to break free. Um, you need to find the one person who is um willing to take you under their wing. It's hard to find. Right. But you're basically creating your own Nepo, your own Nepo um situation.

Speaker 2: 59:45

Yeah.

Herman: 59:45

I I don't honestly don't know how a young person would make you have no resume. You have to you have to justify your resume now. You have to justify your commission. Uh huh. You just don't back back in the day, if you're young, okay, hold up someone's open house and hard producer. Oh, you get someone trapped in your web for an open house. All Of a sudden you get two and a half percent and you got you just got your license last week.

Speaker 4: 1:00:03

Right.

Herman: 1:00:03

Versus someone who's been in the business 26 years and you're getting paid the same amount as me. Why can't they say what that don't make no damn sense? But okay, but that was the way it used to be. Right. And now you have to justify your commission. Right. On the my side, and uh and the self-side too, but I mean it's just harder as a young person, you have to partner with with somebody. Are we just a couple of old people, Herman? I told you I was gonna do a pair of monopause. I told you, girl.

Declan: 1:00:30

I'm getting hot in here. Oh my lord. And the AC is on two two more questions. I'm thinking two more things. It's so fun. So the BRBC, like it or hate it, what how do you feel about it?

Herman: 1:00:44

It's not about what I feel, it's a law now.

Declan: 1:00:46

So Yeah, that's that's true. But I but I mean I personally like it.

Herman: 1:00:50

I just think it tidied things up in a very it saves a lot of time um for people who waste your time. Yeah. Who just who used to treat realtors as just random touristic tour guys for the weekend, you know, and so it kind of forces the the question um without you having to be the chauffeur. Okay, yeah.

Declan: 1:01:11

All right, well, I I I won't dwell too much on that.

Herman: 1:01:13

So my last thing, and I'm sure this is just gonna be loaded, but anyway. Well, I have questions for you too, so it's not that it's not over yet.

Declan: 1:01:22

So I don't know about you, but the day ChatGPT was launched and I was playing around with it, I remember where I was. I was in my car, I was actually outside um uh a bicycle store. My son's bicycle was getting repaired, and I was like, I'll give this ChatGP thing. And I just I felt the I felt the earth moving. I mean, I I could feel it. I was like, oh oh my god, you know how long ago was this? This was what, 2022? Okay, I guess. Okay. I think that's 2022. It's right when it got released, you know, the first year or first week. And uh, but I I I you just knew immediately that the world had changed, right? Because it was just incredible. What are your general thoughts on AI if from here? I find that there's two camps of people. There's people who are just they just hate it and don't want to talk about it, or there's people who uh recognize that if you don't talk about it and you just choose to hate it, that's one of two camps because I'm I I'm not a fan of it, and I think we should talk about it.

Herman: 1:02:22

Yeah. Yeah. Because um I I think it's um it's the beginning of the devolvement of humanity. Right. This is the final step. Or the beginning, big b the beginning of this last stage. I I I I just think it's the beginning of something more insidious. Um it's it's almost like it's almost like the internet. It just came too early. Like in 2000 with pets.com and it just came too early. E-commerce.

Speaker 5: 1:02:45

Yeah.

Herman: 1:02:46

But is internet and e-commerce are still here.

unknown: 1:02:48

Yeah.

Herman: 1:02:48

AI's not going anywhere. Right. But I think we're kind of in this like pets.com era where everyone's rushing in. Well, look, when you have someone being paid a hundred million dollars, yes, signing bonus, right? Not even like over you know something is awry. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So I'm not saying that it's gonna go away or it's bad, although I do think it's there's no guardrails. Okay, if you had told me AI exists and the government, you know, whatever, is able to guard whales up, like sure, there are ways to do it responsibly. Right. Just like Facebook. By the time Mark Zuckerberg Zuckerberg was up there being like slapped on Congress with that little performative show that he did, yeah, it was already embedded. We were already addicted to it. Oh, big deal. Yeah. I mean, it's like, what you gonna do? What you gonna do?

Speaker 2: 1:03:31

Yes, too.

Herman: 1:03:32

The wheels of justice just don't move that fast. Right. And with all the money that's being pumped into AI and all the lobbying they do, I mean, like, you think those senators and those people out there are really gonna turn down those big donor checks when a ding dong engineer is getting a hundred million for a signing bonus. How much do you think is really happening on the lobbying end that they're going to?

Declan: 1:03:54

I mean, so I'm and I'm just surprised you don't use it at all because there, because there are there are there are use cases in our in our work life where I enjoy uh having it as a co-pilot. What does that mean? You know, um, like I if I am looking to just um spit my thoughts out on paper and then have them organized into something that's more a little more polished looking. Yes, it's still my thoughts, but I'm getting the benefit of uh, you know.

Herman: 1:04:25

Yeah, I'm not saying that's not purposeful. Um you know, I I have done the same thing recently with um what's it called? For ad copy. Yeah. I'll spit something in not clean it up and it'll just spit it out and clean it up for me. I don't use a chat, I'll use Gemini or something because that's already I'm already in the Google system, so I just have this brand. Again, brands, I know the brand. I it's it's I'm a little more comfortable in that brand, although it's probably just as demonic. But um I mean, do you ever talk to it about your problems or about your finances? Because you know that Chat GTP and all the stuff that you put is subpoenaable for people who are going through divorces, uh-huh, if you're getting fired or vice versa, all that stuff that you've been talking about, little pillow talk you've been having. Yeah. That's public.

Declan: 1:05:11

And I think it's extremely dangerous to also think that all of that information that you're chatting in there or right typing.

Herman: 1:05:20

You're a decent person. But that'll all get sold. If you think that's not gonna get sold, my DNA was sold on 23andMe. I still regret that. I was so bamboozled back in those days because we were so naive. We thought that, oh, we're we're gonna save the world one person at a DNA at a time or whatever. It's just it's all it's all they just want to sell us. Yeah, everything is just we're just being sold to.

Declan: 1:05:42

Yeah, they're just it's it's just it's just a massive gimmick.

Herman: 1:05:46

And I'm okay with that. We live in a capitalist society. I accept that, but I don't what makes me uncomfortable is that the no guardwells, there's no ramifications, there's no and then for children, this is the thing I'm always posting about these people with children who are being, I can't probably say the word on here, but you know, just you know what I'm saying. Um, but like there's children who have been told to commit us to unalie themselves from talking to from their little chat babies. I mean, like, no one really says says very much about it, girl. I mean, it's just that that's uh we've gotten so far in society that the children, honey, and I don't even have kids. Yeah. And I'm seeing how dangerous it is. Yeah.

Declan: 1:06:20

So it's it's very dangerous. I I I I personally think uh, well, I'm listening to a podcast series right now. Uh can't remember who it's produced by, but it's called The Last Invention. And and that really says it all. This this race for superintelligence, and I think the reason why people are putting so much money into it is it is literally the last invention. But I kind of think like if they stopped where they are now, right? That's a big if. If the guardrails went on right now and they said it said, you know what? This is freaking great the way it is. Can we just let's just leave it?

Herman: 1:06:53

Totally agree. Right? But big if who was gonna do that? Nobody. Nobody, the guardrails they put up for Facebook, social media, there's no no police. Yeah, no, no, no. We learned nothing. I think other countries have banned social media for under 16 years. I think Australia did. I think um, and even then there's some ways to get around, but at least there was a like legal, political like effort, at least frontally speaking, visually optics that hey, as a country, we are saying that there's some concerns here. Right. Here, no, no such thing.

Declan: 1:07:22

No, no, in fact, it's just a race for superintelligence. Absolutely. And super intelligence is the last invention. Yes. And I think that you know, Silicon Valley and the various huge players we have down here, I kind of on a darker day, I think of all of that as Los Alamos. I really do. I'm just because if they achieve what they're racing towards, like that is everything changes just like it did in 19, you know, 40.

Herman: 1:07:49

So well, let's put it this way. Yeah. What we are rationed out to, they are decades ahead. The internet was invented circa 1980.

Speaker 2: 1:07:59

Yeah.

Herman: 1:07:59

It didn't even hit critical mass until 1990 something. Right. So just imagine what really has been three like let's not be naive here.

Declan: 1:08:09

So yeah. I think I think there's no effort to responsibly work on what they call the alignment problem.

Herman: 1:08:16

The alignment problem. What's that?

Declan: 1:08:18

You know, making sure that superintelligence is aligned with us humans. Yes. And is not going to go off on.

Herman: 1:08:26

I mean, I mean, that that's also a function of human hubris. I mean, to say that, I mean, I'm sure whoever is the AI brain is probably thinking, oh, sure, sure, sure, exactly. And then they're that's what they think. I mean, um, I mean, there have been some examples already where they're trying to AI is trying to override something because um but it's it's Oh it it it will lie in order to further its own existence.

Declan: 1:08:48

Yeah, of course. But that's showing up. Yes.

Herman: 1:08:50

So I mean but I have some questions for you though, I I if you don't mind.

Declan: 1:08:54

Uh okay, go ahead. Go ahead.

Herman: 1:08:56

You can always cut it out if you want to, but like um I'm just kind of curious how it is working with somebody because the the team husband-wife thing. Oh um, there's been plenty of people who've crashed and burned and people who have flowed through what what what has been that dyn dynamic? Because I knew you before that.

Declan: 1:09:12

Yeah. Oh, how lovely of you to ask. That's really nice. So so with Denitsa, um, you know, it's interesting. I think what has made it work for us is that we're 50-50. So despite my, you know, 15 years experience prior to her getting her license, we went into it as as equals, right? It was never mine. Yes, it was our choice to do this together. Yes. And so she had the freedom, and we both agreed, there are things that you're going to be really good at that we don't know yet. We don't know what they are.

Speaker 5: 1:09:53

Right.

Declan: 1:09:54

And so let's let's take some time not to have any, not we're not gonna give you a preconceived like you're taskless, yeah, you're rolless, right? Let's find find your way to what it is you do best, and that and that'll help me understand what I do best. And so we have kind of found our way. And there's been a great partner.

Herman: 1:10:13

You gave the space to um yeah for her to thrive and to grow, and you weren't threatened and you didn't feel castrated and well both of us, Herman.

Declan: 1:10:21

You know what she's really good at? She's really good at touring homes with prospective buyers and sh you know, having them feel excited about the space. Yes. You know what I can't do?

Herman: 1:10:33

Why that oh I I find that hard to believe so charming.

Declan: 1:10:37

I mean, I could be I could be happy and charming, but I I I just for some reason can't um can't get that ex I can't I I I Deditsa really sees the value in space. That's that's the way she is. She went to school for fashion styling. She's a visual person, very visual. She's the only person I know who can ten times out of ten, you can ask her what is the exact uh what is the exact, you know, 50% distance from here to here, and she will know. And if we measure it, she's always right. She's got this incredible uh ability to understand space. And so, you know, watching her do that uh is such a relief to me because sometimes I'm just not in the mood to show a property to somebody and have them understand the value of the space. Right, right, right. Effort, there's no joy, but for her, it's just innately a joyous thing. So that kind of thing is Oh my god, you found a perfect match.

Herman: 1:11:33

But that also goes to show that um different agents have different clientele. Like um, if the client is not visual and they're all numbers, what is the ROI? What is that was she be would she shine just as much? Maybe not. I don't know.

Declan: 1:11:45

Um she's actually very good with those people because she Oh, good answer, good answer.

Herman: 1:11:50

Yeah, go on, good answer.

Declan: 1:11:52

She'll like have me look at the spreadsheets and the stuff and deal with that end of things, but she'll bring them to a space and and I just I just love them. So I think that's really been it. It was just that equal share.

Herman: 1:12:03

And you enjoy having this um binary situation, you don't want to grow into a bigger team. I you know, I I um so it's this is the team color, this is like that that's what they encourage, that's the whole thing, right?

Declan: 1:12:14

You know, I I um I wasn't sure what would happen. We were fortunate to have one person join the team and kind of came sort of asking, you know. Right. Um but it it it turns out that it's not really in me to I don't have my ego, and we all have one, but my ego is not demanding me to grow a team for its sake. Do you know what I mean?

Herman: 1:12:38

You nailed it. Yeah, you nailed it.

Declan: 1:12:40

And and for a for a year or so I felt bad that I wasn't quote unquote growing a team.

Herman: 1:12:47

See, again, you're being ghastly. That's not you. Again, it's the whole thing about FOMO. You should do this, you should scale, you should get you an uh in-house TC and uh manager, it's all these like things. Oh god, it's if it's not your vibe, don't do it. Oh god.

Declan: 1:12:58

Yeah, now if somebody comes to me and says, talk to me about your team, I'll say, Yeah, but I I don't really have a presentation for them. I don't really, you know, I'd be like, if it resonates with you, then yeah, you know, and that can happen. You know, it's a very interesting Annabellomo, she when she started District Homes, um, and I believe this is absolutely true to this day, even though I haven't talked to her about it in a long time, but she claims, and Anna's very I mean, she's just a such a nice person. Yeah, she's a doll, right? She she claims that she's never once solicited anybody to join District, ever. It just grew of its own accord, and whatever the dynamic is between her and Sarah Ridge, who was also you know, her, you know, a huge part of that office. Um, they just drew people. And and so if I drew some people, that'd be fine.

Herman: 1:13:50

Um I don't think that's your name. I don't think that's your nature.

Declan: 1:13:52

No, I know. No, it's just not your nature. No, I I love I like this kind of thing. I like chatting with you. So I mentioned your s did you say your son or your um how old? Uh my son is uh gonna be 18 in February.

Herman: 1:14:05

Okay, so if in a year or tees uh I want to Oh yeah, I wanna go into real estate, what would you say?

Declan: 1:14:11

Oh, I'd be thrilled.

Herman: 1:14:12

Oh, great.

Declan: 1:14:13

And because uh because I You have a succession plan. You he's because he would to your point, absolutely, he'd be an epo baby. Yes, yeah, right? And I'd be like, you know what, that's that might be what it takes nowadays.

Herman: 1:14:26

Yeah, and you say four years of college and got bumping around for a whole 10 years, you know, but yeah, I they have zero interest.

Declan: 1:14:33

I'm trying to, why don't you just get your license, keep it, and then as you go through life over the next 10 years, that's exactly if people want to refer exactly, you can make you can make some money. Yes, you know, I wish they would do that, but you know, anyway. But so are we gonna find joy in our work again, Herman?

Herman: 1:14:52

Are you there is always joy in your work? Okay, there is always joy. So let me leave this on this note. Like, yes, the world is in devolvement and humans are um being terrible, like you know, nasty people, but again, back to your common core group of friends and family and clients. Like, just as an example, I just closed this thing in Brno in San Francisco, and this guy had inherited this house that he grew up in, but it was a disaster. There were squatters there, there was a probate that pop there nowhere, there was a lien from 1963 from a bank that didn't even exist anymore. They would go, we had to like possibly go to the FGIC to get it removed, and then neighbors are complaining, and there were there were he was being sued by multiple people from the city. There's a bait list of it, but like and this thing, I literally was nine months of my life.

Speaker 1: 1:15:36

Yes.

Herman: 1:15:36

I earned a and there was a referral fee too, okay. So I literally earned nothing, but it wasn't about that. Yeah, it was about finding, getting, helping my client. He was in dire straits. Yeah, he had no money, he was unemployed. I had to front some of the bills for the fencing, for the the boarding of the property, but like I did it without any complaint because he needed my help.

unknown: 1:15:56

Right.

Herman: 1:15:56

I'm the EMT, a real estate girl. No, I mean, I really, I really that that is what I found so much joy in.

Declan: 1:16:02

Beautiful.

Herman: 1:16:02

It was, you know, I just I really that reminded me, and and you know, people we never get enough credit as real estate agents um for all the work we do on the back end. Yeah when we save people out of their crazy situations that they got themselves into, because you know why we suffer in silence. I know you want to wrap this up, but I want to give you another example. Um, there was this house that I sold recently, and um um there was someone had broken into it. An agent came and showed it and called me up and said, Oh, there was a dog in the house. I was like, why is there a dog in the house? She's like, Oh, and then she's like, I tried to get out of me, he scurried in. Oh, and then she found a coat can and then a phone on the on the kitchen table. And she's like, Oh my god, someone's in this house. This empty house. Yeah. So she turned around and there was a homeless guy all alone in a little house. Wow. He was probably on a bender or something. And by the grace of the god or goddess, she exited and able to to to to to let herself out somehow or whatever in ten minutes. It was like ten minutes of negotiation or um that's just the beginning of it. Okay. Because then um I thought it was just a random homeless person. No, we were hit. My when I drove over the other key was incinerated. Really? It was you could see right through it. So no homeless person carries around a acid burner or flamethrowing thing. Yeah. Because there was no there was no four signs of entry. Okay. The electrical panel was messed with, so they were trying to get hit the alarm. All these garage door openers were missing.

Speaker 4: 1:17:31

Wow.

Herman: 1:17:31

They wanted to come back and do whatever the hell it was. Yeah. And that was just the first issue of that house. I boarded everything up. I hired private security that night because someone had a key somewhere out there. Right. I had to protect my client and the house. Yeah. I hired private security, spent the night, and then the locksmith came the next day, rekeyed everything, put an alarm in there. Yeah. I thought I did my job. Guess what? A week later on, anything happens. Yeah. We're being targeted.

Declan: 1:18:00

Wow.

Herman: 1:18:01

The buyer's agent showed up, called me, and says, Hey, hey, where's a lockbox? It's like burnt to a crisp. Wow.

Declan: 1:18:09

That's wild.

Herman: 1:18:10

Yeah, and that's just, yeah, I'll tell you stuff offline, but it's there's other like very disturbing things that happened. But all that to say, yes, I was putting my life on the rip at risk going to the house every day because someone was like, you know, but no one knows about you because you don't want to. We suffer in silence as real just because we don't want to bring shame to the property as our fiduciary duty. I mean, yes, we have to disclose everything to, you know, on the disclosures and to the buyer, but like in general, it's not you're you're not blogging about it. You're not. So I understand these people who go on TikTok and talk about like, I I I hope to God those deals are like 10 years old or not real because I would feel so offended if I was the client, right? Especially if you haven't closed yet and you're gonna jeopardize our escrow by talking of just so you get some miniature clout and some clicks and views. I mean, uh God. Yeah. Um no, no. So, but I think most realtors are professional. Yeah, we get joy out of helping our clients, but we don't do a good enough job of talking about all the things that we do. I see when people sell things, they talk about, oh God, multiple offers and over-ass, or oh, with the best strategy. That's not, I mean, that that's like everybody, but like um what what the real struggles that people go through, what you have to go through, people don't really talk about it.

Speaker 1: 1:19:23

Yeah.

Herman: 1:19:23

Because um, well, there's client confidentiality, but there's also just um, I think people don't want to talk about like the things that you've really done to get the deal done. And what's worse is I think maybe why you're feeling the sense of like despondency with me is like, um, people don't appreciate it. It's it's almost those assume that, you know, they just assume that you're gonna do it. Like, right. I I I will go to the ends of the earth for you. Right. I just want to wholehearted thank you and a hug at the end. And other one's like, well, didn't you tell something else? It's never, they're never happy. Yeah, yeah.

Declan: 1:19:52

There is something, there's something about the last five years with all of this uh, you know, this the speed of everything now and this this constant dread of the next thing that's around the corner. It's just it's just there's there's no room to pause and be grateful or go, yeah, thank you. Like there's less of there's less of that, but I don't fault people for that.

Herman: 1:20:18

Well, this is my original point, is that I think you just because people are you can't control what other people think about you or say about you, right? Or appreciate you or not. Yeah. You have to find inner zen and happiness. So back to your question about can we be joyful? Yes, yeah. I did that terrible, terrible transaction with the squatters and the babies and the lostes, but I was so happy when I closed, I just felt like I did him such a great favor and myself. I I just I I was there is joy to be had, but it doesn't come from money or accolades, because that was all private listing, too. So I'm not talking about it.

Speaker 4: 1:20:49

Right.

Herman: 1:20:49

I didn't post about it like massively during the whole process because it was nine months of it. That would have been great content, by the way. Nine months of content, but no, yeah, I just zipped it. Yeah.

Declan: 1:20:59

Beautiful. So there there you go. So so like uh at a certain point when you have a roof over your head and you're reasonably comfortable, you seek joy in these connections with people and genuinely improving their lives as only a realtor can. Amen. Oh, there you there's joy in that. What am I missing? What am I missing that you might you might have wanted to bring up?

Herman: 1:21:24

Is there anything if I were to do anything over again in my career? I would have married up. Because even if I got divorced at 40, I mean, I would still be a young woman. I can still get no just joking. Yeah, just joking.

Declan: 1:21:39

Kind of not really though, but Herman, will you come back again another time? Oh, anytime.

Herman: 1:21:46

Okay. Anytime. If you'll have me. No, I don't know if your your viewers are gonna be like bored to tears or no, not at all.

Declan: 1:21:54

And you know what? I enjoy chatting with you. That's all that matters to me. It's really nice to connect. Thanks for coming in. I really appreciate you taking the time. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much, Herman. Again, you can find all of Herman's contact info in the show notes. Okay, let's do the credits. This episode was edited by me with original music by Chuck Lindo and graphics by Lisa Mazer. The podcast is brought to you by the Home Factor Realtors, thehomefactor.com. Catch up with the latest news from the inner East Bay market in their weekly substack, published every Sunday. Go to thehomefactor.com to subscribe. If you'd like to reach out to me with suggestions for the show, that kind of thing, please text me at four one five four four six eight five nine one. Catch you on the next podcast, everybody.