Blossom Your Awesome Podcast Therapeutic Mindfulness With Ruth Fearnow

Blossom Your Awesome Podcast Therapeutic Mindfulness With Ruth Fearnow

Ruther Fearnow is a therapist, speaker and author of 'Therapeutic Mindfulness.'

She is also the creator of the Therapeutic Mindfulness method, a step-by-step method for using Mindfulness Meditation and Self-Compassion to transform one's experience with any painful thought or experience.   

To learn more about Ruth check her out here.

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Transcript

Sue (00:01.624)
Hi there today on the show we have got Ruth Fair now here with us I am so honored and delighted to have you here. Welcome to the show

Ruth Fearnow (00:10.166)
Thanks for having me. It's so good to meet you.

Sue (00:13.78)
Oh, it's so great to meet you. We've already been chatting and I'm just feel so connected and just love having you here. So Ruth, getting into your story, the background, I just love your story. You began your journey learning meditation mindfulness more than 20 years ago in Shaolin, China. You've studied Kung Fu and Qigong. I just love that. And mindfulness, all of that. You are a trauma therapist. You're certified in EMDR.

Give us the backstory, like how this all, how you ended up in China, how have you always been spiritual? I'm gonna have so many questions for you, but how and what?

Ruth Fearnow (00:53.154)
I guess. Have I always been spiritual? Maybe I'll start with that one since it chronologically goes back further. I was raised Mormon, which is a Christian church. And I remember it's...

It's interesting because in my family we were taught to listen for the still small voice which could be Holy Spirit, intuition, higher self, source, whatever works for you. And there were times when I was going through something and I prayed and I got an answer. So even as I went through a journey of questioning and deciding what I believe and trying to figure out things, I always believed that God was there, that there's something.

So I would say yes from a very young age. I was spiritual once I was in my 20s, once I was on my own in the main turmoil of life, which was how to take care of myself and be an independent adult. Once that was solved, starting at about age 25, I was very actively seeking.

I remember when I got my second place and things were settled. I have an autobiography of Gandhi. I read the autobiography of the Dalai Lama. I read all kinds of things I was seeking. And then I have a friend that I run into from high school. And he tells me, we're catching up, he tells me, I found this school in China and I'm going to go there for three months and I'm going to study Kung Fu. And I'm like, oh, that's cool. I would love to do something like that.

you really?" And I'm like, yeah, really, you can come. I'm like, I'm going. It's so funny. It sounds like I mean, everything in the bio is true, but it sounds like this big thing. And it really was just like, that would be cool. Let's do it. And so I went and I had studied in American martial art for

Ruth Fearnow (02:42.866)
Several years, so I liked martial arts, but I was going because I've always been curious about people and cultures and differences And I figured it would broaden my horizons I would be able to see a lot so I went to Shaolin with my friend from high school and And so there's the Shaolin temple which is in Shaolin the town and Shaolin the town is lined by martial arts schools

It is a tiny little town. I was at one of the schools at the base of the Himalayas and we would train for anywhere from five to seven hours a day in Kung Fu and then the master would come and sometimes teach on Qigong and we would sit in a sanctuary and meditate. We didn't have running water or electricity, so we were really focused on what was going on there. I had a lot of time to read.

Ruth Fearnow (03:40.109)
I was doing a lot of practice. I felt like I was terrible at it. But this is when I got serious about a practice because I remember coming home and I would still attempt every day. I would sit down and I would work on meditation. And it's funny because again, I have a lot of people tell me.

that it's hard and they don't think that they're very good at it and therefore, or they're not getting anything out of it. And I certainly felt that way and still have those times. And yet somehow within a year of that, I opened up to my life's purpose, which I've been searching for years.

So it's like, no, I don't feel the inner peace then. I don't levitate when I meditate and I'm not feeling like a connected cosmic being. But what I'm supposed to do, what I've been searching for years suddenly becomes known to me on such a deep level that

I didn't even question it. I had to go back for my master's, my bachelor's, my master's, and I didn't even question it. It was that deep. And so we don't see always the effects of learning to meditate. And yet, any research on it or anyone that's been dedicated to it, there's no denying that it changes your life.

Sue (04:59.38)
And you know what I'm picking up here, Ruth, from you is so part of it with your training, your background, the kung fu, the martial arts. It's, you know, for people who don't know, it appears to be this kind of like, it has this appearance. But really, when you go into that world, that energy world with your masters and teachers, it's really more of this kind of effortless.

learning how to move with ease and grace and being less reactive and same with mindfulness, right? Where people say, oh my God, it's so hard, but it's actually this idea of like, effortlessness and ease and not doing and just being.

Ruth Fearnow (05:45.366)
And I think eventually people get there, but I think it feels very, very difficult for a chaotic mind.

And so what I think might be helpful for people to understand, how do you know if you're meditating successfully? Because we get really caught up. I spent X number of hours in the first few months meditating, and how do I even know I'm doing something right? And to me, if you're calmer than when you started, if your mind is slower, they're like, I can't empty my mind. I'm like, neither can I sometimes. But...

Sue (05:54.326)
Mm-hmm.

Ruth Fearnow (06:17.906)
are the thoughts less chaotic, less wild, less intense. We want to get to that point, and I've had those moments. Of course, I've been meditating for 20 plus years, but in the beginning, it does feel, there's a lot of doubt.

And so I don't even know what drove me to keep trying it. I'm not even sure why. I think somewhere I just sensed that there was something here for me. I hadn't read all the science on it by then. It was 1990 something. Oh, no, it was 2001. I was in China in 2001. So I hadn't read all the science on it. I was a young woman. But something just told me to keep with it. And there.

There are moments when I feel like, and I don't know that I'm actually ADHD, but I feel like I am when I'm trying to meditate, right? And there are other times when I'm going through something and a message comes that's so powerful that it changes my life or gives me stability during a hard time. And most of the times I can find, if I look for it, where's the peace inside me? I can connect to that.

And I know doing what I do now as a therapist, so many people don't even know there's peace inside them. They have no idea. It shocks them when they find out.

Sue (07:37.996)
And I love that you're a therapist and I love that you promote meditation to find peace within and this idea, because so often that's not the conversation or dialogue that's happening, right? Like, it's just kind of like, okay, you have this chaotic mind and maybe you need this medication or this or that, versus this idea of like, it really is possible.

You know, it takes time, it takes a little effort, but it is possible to kind of awaken, calm within even with the most chaotic mind.

Ruth Fearnow (08:13.142)
My therapy website is Calm to Happy. Find the calm and that leads you. So yes. Yeah, yeah. I've known of people that have gone to see a therapist and they're like, if you don't want medication, why are you here? And I'm like, why are you a therapist? It doesn't make sense. Medication has a place for some people. I feel like it's a very personal decision. But most mental ailments that we go through

I think we can get to a healing place where we no longer need it. I really think that is accessible for most people on the planet. And meditation is, well, all the mindful, there's a lot of mindfulness tools, but, you know, so I'll just say meditation is one really powerful way to train your mind and get there. It's yeah, it can be life changing. It was for me.

Sue (09:01.008)
I mean.

Sue (09:05.696)
Yeah, and I have no judgment here, but I just I love this ideology and it's so empowering, right versus another and again, I know there's certain people, they need medication, I get it. But this just idea of empowering yourself and knowing that you can get to this space of like stillness and quietude within through, you know, mindfulness practice. So

Give us some insights here for somebody who's stuck and struggling. What's some practical guidance for that person? Where can they start just something really practical?

Ruth Fearnow (09:46.022)
Okay, well I think this gets right into my work. So it's good that we have the background on the mindfulness because I had been actively practicing, how do I meditate? What are the different tools out here? Here's meditation, here's guided visualization, here's contemplation. Decade before I even became a therapist. Then I become a therapist and I learned about something called grounding. It's a coping skill and it pulls off of mindfulness techniques. And I'm taught as an

In turn, you need to teach your patients the ground every day because there's a lot of people that have never learned about emotional regulation. Like I said, it can be shocking for some people to learn that there even is peace within. This has been wonderful for many people. What I ended up learning is that even though these practices are really, really helpful,

If you use only the practice of trying to find peace and avoid the turmoil, like really avoid and push down and suppress the turmoil, then your mindfulness practice is no longer mindful. It is a new method of avoidance and that is damaging long term.

And that's what I address in my work. That's what's a bit different. The first person that this happened with, I did a safe space, which is a pretty common thing in therapy. It's a visualization where you create a safe space for yourself. And the person that I was working with had a really intense avoidance, just a lot of fear about all the trauma and all the feelings. And when she experienced the safe place, she...

I've said she felt more peaceful than she had ever in her life as far as she could remember. It astounded her. She wrote a thesis on it. She was in college at the time. This became her jam and she used it all the time, but that's all she did. She still had so much fear about facing emotion. A year later, her trauma content actually broke into her safe space and it was no longer safe.

Ruth Fearnow (11:50.218)
because the stuff that's hard, if we never face it, if we push it down, it will push back. You can't ignore that stuff.

So that's when I became aware that it could be avoidance. And what I'm teaching now, what I call therapeutic mindfulness, is using mindfulness instead of pushing stuff away or avoiding. And remember, I am all about all the mindfulness stuff. But if you only try to make yourself feel positive and peaceful every minute and never take time to look directly at what's difficult, that stuff builds up like a tea kettle.

And so therapeutic mindfulness is a process that I created of how to use mindfulness techniques to go to the negative feeling. And you know what? When you do that, you can heal it. And sometimes it's in like 15 minutes. It's incredible.

Sue (12:48.248)
I love that. And you know, I was having a similar conversation yesterday about, because really so often, there's so much fear around feeling, right? So it just kind of seems like a natural human reaction or instinct to just, oh, let me ignore this, push it away, not feel it, and just distract myself with other stuff. But it is there. And it's inevitable that it's going to come up.

and will be triggered.

Ruth Fearnow (13:21.454)
Absolutely, it does. I tell people, if you're relating to this and like, oh, I have been avoiding bad on me, don't feel bad. I consider feelings like a hot stove. And if you touch it, it's a natural reaction. You're not thinking run away, your hand jerks back automatically.

If I hit something super duper painful, I have that urge to run away too, and I've been doing this for decades. It really is a natural human reaction. What you can do is learn... Say you find a process that you can use to face the feeling and it actually heals it, like therapeutic mindfulness. When you do that, when you practice that...

again and again and you find something that could have been painful for days, weeks, months, or suppressed and then come back later. Something that can be that bad if that thing is healed or minuscule within like 15 to 30 minutes and you have that experience again and again.

The fear goes down, because you're like, wait a minute, I've done this before, and it felt awful, but it wasn't that bad, it went away so fast. If you start practicing therapeutic mindfulness, you start to believe that I am stronger than this feeling, that it's not too much for me, and I am not too much, and that's huge.

Sue (14:48.336)
That is so powerful. I love that. Now, so, you know, for people who are resistant and not making anyone wrong here, but this idea of even feeling or, you know, if you're kind of guarded and closed off, what's that guidance for kind of allowing yourself to open up and start feeling some of that hard stuff?

Ruth Fearnow (15:13.014)
Well, as I said, I've developed a whole process that you can follow and I have it in my book. I have it on my website. It's called Therapeutic Mindfulness. But if you want to just start with something, you can start with what am I feeling and where is it in my body?

This is an early exercise that I give to people because I had a woman, we've been doing a lot of deep work, but she had this really fundamental sense of instability. I had heard from a neuroscientist on a TED Talk, if you do something for your brain that's relaxing every 20 minutes, you will train your brain to relax on a regular. By something relaxing, a yawn relaxes you.

in your neuropsychology and so doing something like that. Well, I asked her to check in her body. What do I feel? Where is it in my body? Every 20 minutes, she said, that's easy. I'm a clock watcher. I hate my job. So she says, I'll do it. And I forgot to mention, but when I had that conversation with her, her instability had been triggered and she asked for an emergency session one day before her session.

So she came in and that's what I told her to do. The next day she already was feeling better and the next week she felt more stable than she ever had in her life.

There's something really powerful about that. So what do I feel and where is it in my body? Well, it'll have different effects, but some people are already aware and some people have never thought about it. And so you can start to gain an awareness of that. And then as I teach in my process, you can go deeper with that. The process of therapeutic mindfulness is about going into your body. And I can describe why that is, but it's going to have two components.

Ruth Fearnow (16:59.08)
Judge, pardon me, two components, non-judgmental focused attention. That's what mindfulness means. That's why I said when people start to use, say guided visualization, oh I feel bad, I'm at the beach, I'm at the beach. If you're using guided visualization to avoid something, you are now judging that feeling as bad or scary or too much for you and you're no longer mindful. You're just avoidant.

Right? So non-judgmental focus attention. So what we do is we focus attention into the body and there's a method of how to do that because we need to get out of the mind. The mind will get us trapped up in guilt, anger, the story. It feeds the story, our thoughts. But if we can get into our body.

and find that emotion, and I use this process to really get hyper-focus on that, then I switch over to adding non-judgment. So let's say I did a workshop and I demonstrated the process for everybody, and there was a woman who...

wanted to ask for help at work, but the shame, shame will absolutely block you in ways that make no logical sense. So this shame, I asked her about where does it feel in her body and she says it's in her stomach. So I start asking her questions. If it had a size, how big would it be? And she holds her hands out like this. It's almost bigger than her. And if it had a weight, how heavy would it be? If it had a texture, what would it feel like if it had a color? So she ends up with this giant marbled slate.

a stone in her stomach that's huge and she's feeling it. And so once I get her focused on that, and it's bizarre, but a lot of people who do not think they're artistic or visual at all come up with these really unusual, unique visualizations because this is your subconscious mind expressing a feeling in some way, symbolically.

Ruth Fearnow (18:55.046)
If you try or think about this and it sounds super weird, just think about dreams. They're not logical, linear, it's symbolic. So she has this stone in her stomach and it's heavy and it's uncomfortable and it's rough and it's like a marbled gray and it's really big with sharp edges. And she feels that. And so now she's got to focus attention on this giant feeling. And then I bring in the non-judgment to aspect of mindfulness. And I tell her,

there. Let it be heavy. Let it be cold. Let it be hard. I said this feeling, this is just a hurt part of you showing up. And the thing is, if you're with it, it doesn't have to be hurt alone. So let it be uncomfortable.

and I see her face smoothing out and transforming as I'm walking her through this. And then I check in, so where is it now? Now this one's unusual, because a lot of times the feeling will get smaller or it'll spread out and dissipate, but she says, well now it's on my lap. I'm thinking that's new. Okay, let it be there, let it sit there. Just...

see what it's going to do next. Just follow it. There's no judgment. Allow it to do what it needs to do. And then I watch her for a while and I prompt her and then I check in with it. And next thing I know she's like, oh, the stone's not there anymore. It flew off into space. Oh, okay. So she says, I think, I think I can ask for help now.

I'm like, oh wow, so that shame's gone. She's like, yeah, there's no shame. I can ask for help, but I need to ask the right person. I don't know if I can trust anybody. I don't know who I can trust. Where do you feel that doubt in your body? Where do you feel that? Well, it's in my arm, and it's just like, she's shielding herself. And then I ask again, next thing you know, she's got a metal shield.

Ruth Fearnow (20:46.95)
over from her chest down to her hips, like her whole torso. And it's got specifically rusty screws in all the corners. And so I say, let the shield be there. How big is it? How is it hot or cold? How hard is it? And I ask her all these questions. And she'll see she's watching the shield. Notice we're not in story. We're not about who she's not trusting, her fears. Her emotions are displayed in the body. And that's where we heal it. So she's got this shield. And I say, let it be there.

It's just a hurt part of you open up to it be curious your only job is to observe I'm giving her all this stuff so she can not judge it and not be upset with the experience so she watches the shield and it shrinks and it shrinks and it shrinks till it's a little corner and Then it peels off

And now she might be able to trust, but there's a plastic porous shield underneath the metal shield. And so you can see the layers of fear are stripping away. First, it was a shame that went and then the layers of fear are stripping away. And then we finished for purposes of the workshop. But I imagine at some point it moves from I can't trust anybody to something like.

I have the discernment to know when to trust and when not to trust or I can test out and find the right people to trust. And that is a core belief that is so much more flexible and so much more focused on her wisdom and her resilience rather than reacting to fear. And that's what healing looks like.

Sue (22:22.956)
Mm hmm. Oh, that's beautiful. It's, it's so counter intuitive to what most people consider, you know, healing to look like really where you're kind of you're going all in and almost like hyper activating the feelings of hurt and pain and all of that.

Ruth Fearnow (22:39.224)
Thanks for watching!

Ruth Fearnow (22:45.454)
Yeah, I think that happens because by default, our brain has certain ways that it deals with emotion. So I'll give you the swallow concept. Default option number one, we can swallow. You can stuff it down, avoid it, all that teapot stuff where it builds up. Unfortunately, when you swallow and you shove down, you can't handle anything.

it ends up exploding sideways. Like if you're shoving down a cloth cube and the seams rip and everything explodes out. Exploding sideways looks like nightmares, panic attacks.

rage attacks, unexplained emotion, physical ailments, that's what happens when it comes out sideways. So what can you do instead? Swallowing is not really good long term. Swallowing is good if something scary happens and I need to be strong for my child. I'm going to swallow short term for the day until I get the kid to bed and soothed and calmed and all that stuff. But if that's all I do, if I never deal with it, it's going to add up.

So swallowing short term, just fine, long term, this is not a healing solution, it's a suppression technique, right? So take off the S. The second thing you can do is you can wallow. Now this is why people are afraid of feelings, I believe, because the moment you're like, I'm gonna face my feelings, let me deal with it, face my fears, I'm gonna think about it, and I'm gonna figure it out, and we get into our head. And when we're in our head, we try to analyze the feeling. We're trying to use logic.

to fix something that's emotional. So our logic starts telling us all this stuff and the story starts spinning. And if you ever notice when you're stuck in your brain trying to analyze a problem, you feel worse and worse and worse because your logic is telling you, here's all the reasons you should be upset. In fact, not only should you be upset, you should be more upset and let me tell you why. And the story starts running amok. So wallowing doesn't work.

Ruth Fearnow (24:53.246)
And I think that's why people are afraid. If you try to face it, it gets bigger and bigger. It's very frightening. And if emotions are a fire and you think about it, the thoughts are like logs and the fire grows and it can be out of control. And I really think people think it's going to burn their life down. And I've had people tell me that. If I start crying, I'll never stop. If I let myself feel it, I'll go crazy. They will have to lock me up. So what's left? You know, if you avoid it, it doesn't work. If you face it, it doesn't work. What's next?

Well, guess what? Take off the W, you can allow it. But the trick, the thing people don't know is you don't do it in your head. You cannot solve an emotional problem with logic. It's a different layer of the mind. You solve it where the emotion is, and that's in your body. So you get out of the story into your body.

and it's a rock in your stomach or a shield on your chest. It's a clenched fist in your throat, whatever it ends up being. And you go to that feeling and you give it unconditional attention and say, I see you, I'm here. And the feeling, once you allow it to show up, your subconscious mind actually knows how to heal and it will start to shift and change and move and allowing leads you there.

So I think that's why, and there is a solution that generally we don't know, but as an energy healer, I bet you've seen things move through when you allow them to happen.

Sue (26:27.688)
Hmm. Oh, that's so powerful. Now is that whole swallow? Is that an acronym or the is there more to it?

Ruth Fearnow (26:35.778)
No, it's just the three ways or strategies of dealing with emotion, which I created. I'm not going to lie, I jumped up and down in my kitchen when I did. I was so tickled. I love good wordplay, but it's just swallow, wallow, and allow. That's what your mind can do. The first two are default, but if you learn about allowing it, it changes everything, everything.

Sue (26:47.536)
I'm sorry.

Sue (27:06.18)
And now talk to us more Ruth about mindfulness ninja, becoming a mindfulness ninja. I just love that. I think that's so cool. I love how you've blended your kung fu with mindfulness. Give us that.

Ruth Fearnow (27:16.11)
Oh.

Ruth Fearnow (27:25.046)
Oh, it all started when I was trying to come up with the name for my talk. I presented a talk after my book came out and I decided to call it, hey, become a mindfulness ninja because if, so I said to the group, if you think becoming a mindfulness ninja means that we are going to be a government spy and we're going to infiltrate our enemies and you know, kung fu them.

get rid of all the threats, all while being perfectly mindful and that peace in our minds, that's not it. But if you think it means we're gonna go into our mind mindfully and face all of our threats mindfully and then dissolve them, that's being a mindfulness ninja.

Sue (28:10.188)
is so beautiful. And now, you know, is there a practice, an exercise for sitting and going inward? I mean, give us some of that there. Like, what would that look like if you've got, okay, there's these three things, three hang ups I've got or whatever. Can you give us that insight?

Ruth Fearnow (28:32.722)
Sure. And the process, by the way, I have free downloadable PDFs with the whole process. My book goes into a lot of detail and it will address the resistance issue because even noticing or knowing the process, all of us have resistance. By the way, I did want to mention that when you said not to shame anyone for that and that's great, but everyone does. It's just how much do you have? Is yours a little bit because you've learned you have a lot of strength or do you not believe you have a strength and you believe the feeling

are scary and now your mind is very afraid and there's a lot of resistance. So it has a lot, it has advanced techniques, but the basic process is on RuthFernall.com and you can download it. That I want everyone to have that. So the process essentially is you pick a pain point. I call it a target. So this target could be a memory from the past, something that happens at work, something that happens in the present regularly, a fear of the future. You know think about

My spouse is going to leave me, my kid's going to whatever. You know, so you have any image or even a belief, I'm not a good mom, I'm not a good person, I'm not worthy, whatever. So you have a thought or an image that brings up pain for you. So step one is to bring up the pain. Step two is to go into your body using the body focusing questions. And I gave a brief demonstration of that with the stone.

Step three is to use the allowing phrases to practice non-judgment.

Your job in this is once you find the feeling to give it your full undivided attention without any judgment. And that's when I prompt my clients or workshop participants, let it be there, open up to it. And there's different ones that I do. But again, I have a brainstorm of that on one of those PDFs. You know, you find what sounds right, what works for you. So one of the big ones that

Ruth Fearnow (30:37.3)
That the feeling if something comes up say it's some fist clenching their throat and it feels so uncomfortable And part of them just wants to push it away and I say let yourself be uncomfortable That's huge. I see that shift a lot of people The other thing is that what you're feeling in your body is a part of you that's speaking up saying that I'm hurt and If you can be there with the hurt part

without judging it, without saying it's bad or too much, but just be with it and listen. I can almost, well, I can, I can see it on their faces when they start to believe that they're actually there with it, because there's this relief that happens and they're still uncomfortable.

But it's like, it's as if the hurt part can actually tell that for the first time, some people that I do this with for the first time in their lives, feel listened to on a level that they've never experienced before. Because it's coming from them inside them and they can feel the sincerity. They can feel that it's real.

So that part starts to get listened to. So I use the non-judgmental phrases to help them get into that mindset and that's let it be uncomfortable. Let the fists squeeze, let it be there. Your job is just to be present, that's it. And things start to shift and change.

Step four is to do step two and three again and again. Describe it. Well, it's not a fist anymore. Now it's at the bottom of my throat. Now it's like a rock or now it's squeezing around my heart. So you're gonna describe again what's happening. It's getting bigger, it's getting smaller, it's changed color, it's less hot, whatever it's doing. So you describe and allow, describe and allow. Step two, step three, describe it in your body.

Ruth Fearnow (32:28.038)
Let it be there. Describe it in your body. Remember not to judge it. Describe it in your body. Let it be there. That's step four. As that's happening, the feeling will change, shift, sometimes dissipate, sometimes it will leave your body completely.

And then when you think you're done, step five is, let's check with step one, let's check with the target. Okay, my spouse, I imagine my spouse leaving me. When I think about this now, how much pain comes back up?

Because we check back in where we started, that's how we know that we're not avoiding. I'm not telling people to imagine riding on a dolphin into the sunset and then they go back to it and they're like, no, it still hurts. We went straight into it. So they go right back into it. And if they're like, eh, it's just a little bit of pressure on my heart, then you can go back to, okay, notice the pressure, let it be there, you can go back into that. But sometimes they will tell me,

It's gone. I don't feel, I think about my spouse leaving me and I don't feel anything. Like it doesn't seem real. It does not seem like that's an imminent problem. It's just, it's just not a concern right now. And it's done. The fear is gone. And that is when it's healed.

Sue (33:48.372)
Mm hmm. Oh, that's so powerful. I just love that. What incredible insights there. So couple of things. First, I want to ask you what's up. I'm going to be sure to have links to all of your stuff, but want to ask you what's on the horizon for you. What's upcoming? What's going on in 2024? Give us that.

Ruth Fearnow (34:13.93)
Well, now that the book's out, so I did a podcast tour all the summer of this year and that's wrapping up, actually you are probably my second to last podcast, unless some come up organically.

So in 2024, I plan to expand my in-person teaching. I've done a few of those. I've done a few workshops. And I already have two book that are coming soon that I'm excited about. One is next month and I'll be speaking to a group of therapists. So I'm planning on taking my curriculum and getting it certified so therapists can get continuing education credits. This means I can teach more therapists how to do this. And I got to tell you, when I was a new therapist,

knew I didn't know any of this. I knew how to meditate and I was guiding people and healing visualizations and things like that and those things are very powerful and useful but I didn't have this skill set yet and this is something that is gentle enough that new therapists could do. So I'm teaching a group of therapists and that is

super exciting to me because they can reach a lot more people than I ever can. And then there's a nationwide, I don't know if they're beyond the US, but it's a meditation group called Insight Meditation. They have a center here in Fort Wayne where I live. And I'm planning a series of classes where instead of just doing the one presentation where I teach about this and I demonstrate it and do a Q&A, I'm going to be doing a six

series where we're going to do.

Ruth Fearnow (35:50.582)
the swallow and I'll demonstrate in front of everybody. And then I'll teach other things. I'll teach self-compassion one week and advanced techniques another week. And I'll do group practices for four out of the six weeks. When I do advanced therapy and mindfulness, I'll show that with a demonstration again. So they'll be getting a really in-depth look at it. And these are people that are actively into meditating, self-help, improving themselves,

healing themselves. So that's also a really great group for me to work with because I can give them something to take home and actually do. So and I'm just going to keep expanding doing talks locally and see where it goes from there.

Sue (36:38.828)
Oh, I love it. How exciting. I mean, those are some big things. And again, you know, training other therapists, that's just like you say, that just is going to kind of, you know, expand and grow and evolve. So that's incredible that you're getting your work out there in that way.

Ruth Fearnow (36:59.07)
It is very exciting. There are some therapies that I have to do that I would never recommend, like EMDR. I'm EMDR certified, it's a trauma therapy. I do not teach people to do at home nor recommend they do at home. I recommend EMDR calming, but not therapy at home. But therapeutic mindfulness is generally if you can tolerate some level of emotion.

then you can do this on your own. So this one I do teach to people and they do it without me and I see people growing between sessions. I see people needing me less. Once we work through whatever big issue they came in for me, they're not dependent on me afterwards because they're like the day to day stuff I've got because I have this tool set. So really excited to teach this to therapists as well as lay people but yeah, they can get it out to more people than I can.

Sue (37:52.508)
Wow, that is amazing. Wishing you just so much expansion with that and prosperity, it sounds incredible. And again, I love this idea, like you say, they need me less. And that's kind of, I think, a point that gets isn't being stated and embodied enough just in general in that world, right? Where it's kind of like.

Ruth Fearnow (38:20.182)
Yeah.

Sue (38:20.944)
That's kind of the idea where you want somebody to come to therapy and heal and not have it be like, oh, same time next week for years on end, right? Yeah. So that's amazing. What were you gonna say?

Ruth Fearnow (38:29.314)
forever.

Ruth Fearnow (38:36.602)
I was just thinking about every time someone graduates or someone says, maybe let's go to every two weeks or every three weeks, always excitedly tell my partner after work, I'm just, yay, somebody needs me less, somebody graduated happily, they're doing so well, and it's just really exciting. That's where I wanna be. You're supposed to be able to...

a good therapist puts himself out of work, except that's impossible because once these people are done, everyone hears about it, more people are coming to you. So I'm like, I had a client that was like concerned that I wrote all this down, put it in a book, very scarcity lack oriented, fear oriented. And I'm like, trust me, I did not heal mental health with one book. It's a great, and if I did, then I would be the one that's not out of work because I would be touring, telling everyone how I did it.

Sue (39:08.817)
Thank you.

Sue (39:23.769)
I'm sorry.

Ruth Fearnow (39:31.12)
But I'm like, don't worry. There is enough for me out there. And I'm really excited when people need me less. I really am. That's the best thing that...

Sue (39:31.587)
Right.

Ruth Fearnow (39:43.314)
We're not going to solve all problems and things will keep coming for us, coming up for us as we grow. Me still, I've been doing this kind of work on myself for 20 years and I've evolved tremendously and I have a lot more happiness in my life and yet I'm still on that growth plane. But for people to be able to do a lot of it with themselves or with somebody and not need a therapist.

is a wonderful thing. And people sometimes come back when they have a big event and they want a few sessions, but a lot of people are comfortable without a therapist after me. And that's really exciting.

Sue (40:24.16)
Oh, that is so beautiful, Ruth. I love that. That is music to my ears. So a couple of things, first and foremost, I just wanna say you have been so amazing, so insightful. I know people are gonna have so many great takeaways from what you've shared here. I'm gonna have links to all your stuff, and I just thank you so much for your time today.

Ruth Fearnow (40:45.858)
Thank you for having me. I really appreciate any way that I can get the word out. It means a lot to me.

Sue (40:52.356)
Wow, I love that. And you were wonderful. Now in closing, if there were just one message, your hope for everybody, what is that closing message you wanna leave us with?

Ruth Fearnow (41:04.226)
The ideas are inspiring and lovely, and they don't matter if you don't do it. I don't mean it to be a downer, but seeing people's face after they try it, or after they learn to do it, nothing tops experience, and this is one of those things that can really help. So the one message would be try it.

Just try it. The basic process is free, and there's a lot more learning in the book, therapeutic mindfulness. Yeah, just try it. That's all. And healing is possible.

Sue (41:43.352)
What a beautiful closing message. You've been so awesome, Ruth. Thank you so much.

Ruth Fearnow (41:48.35)
You are very welcome and thank you.

Sue (41:50.396)
Thank you.