Hello and thank you so much for downloading episode 418 of the Speak Life Podcast. My name is Thomas Thoroughgood, media producer at Speak Life, and I'm delighted to bring you a brand new episode of the podcast today. Glenn Scrivener and Paul Feasy asking the question: Is politics post-Christian? Now, just a little heads up with this, they discuss the current Tory leadership contest quite a lot. And because it's a rapidly changing situation, within hours of us recording this, Kemi Badenock was knocked out of the contest. So there's part of this episode which in which they talk about the possibility of her becoming Prime Minister, and that at least for now is no longer a possibility. So just bear that in mind. But I hope you really enjoy the episode and find it helpful, and I will catch you at the end.
SPEAKER_02Well, hello, and welcome to the Speakeasy. My name is Paul Feezy, and I am joined by I'm Glenn Scrivener. Hello. Hello, how are you? I'm surviving the apocalyptic heat. Yeah. Fortunately, this room is always freezing. Yeah. And today it's quite pleasant. It's just fine. Fine. It's fine. So it's nice actually.
SPEAKER_10You go upstairs, it's 10 degrees warmer. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. So you can't we can't leave this room and for and for the next few days. But um no, we're doing okay. Hope you guys are all uh doing okay at home. Uh today we're talking about the question is politics post-Christian? Um what does that even mean? What are we talking about?
SPEAKER_10Uh I heard um I heard Andrew Claven uh call President Trump America's first post-Christian president. Where's this going? A while back. And I thought that's that's very interesting because you you know you you think about presidents all the way up to Barack Obama and you think, yes, they, you know, they certainly know how to talk the talk. You know, even if they don't have a personal faith. Um you know, Tim Farron, the um uh Christian uh minis member of parliament here in in the UK, he was the the leader of the Liberal Democrats. He he once said that uh in America you have to pretend to have a faith to get on, and in in the UK you have to pretend not to have a faith to get on in politics. Um and and yet when the first person I heard say that President Donald Trump was America's first post-Christian president, I was like, well that's that's interesting, and it sort of made sense of uh a lot of things. Um such as his um his inability to answer just straightforward questions about the Bible. Um this in particular is quite hilarious.
SPEAKER_06You mentioned the Bible, you've been talking about how it's your favorite book, and you said, I think last night and I'm like some people are surprised that you say that.
SPEAKER_04I'm wondering what one or two of your favorite versus my second favorite I just think the Bible is just something very special.
SPEAKER_02Equal equal. It reminds me of isn't there a cliff in the Simpsons of Reverend Lovejoy said, Have you thought about consulting the good book? Any particular part? No, it's all good.
SPEAKER_10Everyone's a sinner in this book, except this guy. Yeah, so Donald Trump is a man who looks uncomfortable in church. Um he certainly looks uncomfortable holding a Bible. There was there was this famous incident from 2020 where they cleared the space in front of a prominent church right near the Capitol building in Washington, D.C. Cleared away protesters. Did they even use tear gas? There was talk of that, yeah. In order to get his photo opportunity with the Bible, and then if you can listen out for what the crowd are saying and how MacDonald is uh responding, that's quite special, too.
SPEAKER_02So for those listening on the podcast who couldn't see that, you've got Donald Trump standing in front of a church uh looking at a Bible like he's never seen one in his life before holding it up. Like he's never held a book before. Before holding it up and then uh standing there awkwardly and saying, We have a great country. Like I'm not sure what the relation is to that.
SPEAKER_10Someone else is that your Bible? No.
SPEAKER_09It's a Bible.
SPEAKER_02It's a Bible, baby.
SPEAKER_10What are your thoughts? We have a great country. Yes, like totally seeking Jesus is my favorite American. Seeking this religious moment like goes to a lot of trouble in order to get the the church in the background, the Bible in his hand. What are your thoughts? We have a great country. And I think the post-Christian thing works because I mean Trump, when he did go to church, he went to the church of Norman Vincent Peel, who is the author of the the this massive bestseller, The Power of Positive Thinking, which is this massive Protestant work ethic, just we live the American dream, you can do it. Um, which is this sort of you know, it's it's developed from Christianity and the the belief in the individual and the belief in the equality of all people and the belief in sort of liberty, religious liberty at least. But then from that you you get the sense of everyone must be free to release their own their own divine spark within themselves and to you know potential in there. The potential and the then the power of positive thinking and sort of name it and claim it type stuff you know comes from from very Christian roots. Manifest it. Yeah, manifest it, and and then Donald Trump becomes the sort of man that he has. And it's it's it's it's not Christian, but it's it's unimaginable without Christianity. And I think that's that's kind of what has made Donald Trump a kind of a post-Christian figure. Right, yeah, okay, yeah, that makes sense. But then a lot of people want to draw the links with Boris Johnson and not just the hair. But Lar I mean when people first sort of talked about Boris Johnson, well he's a bit of a populist, isn't he? And he's a he's a Brexiteer because it's the populist thing. Um and he sort of rises to prominence around 2016, and and so is he the British Trump? And I I've always sort of thought that's a bit silly, they're probably just noticing they have blonde hair. Is there is there anything deeper to that? Well, certainly the ways in which both men uh held on to power far beyond the democratic mandate, far beyond when they should have. And certainly Trump calling massive questions, you know, uh about the the election and the the election was stolen and stop the steal and all the events around January the sixth. Um Donald Trump has has had sought to cling on to power beyond um the democratic mandate, and Boris Johnson similarly. I mean, how many resignations?
SPEAKER_02Oh, it was well over 40, wasn't it? And that was after within a day. That was after scandal and already, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_10So yes. Like anyone else would have resigned many months earlier. Um there was scandal after scandal, you're right. There was there was party gate um in terms of him uh putting rules on others that he himself was not abiding by around lockdown. And then the thing that sort of brought him down really was lying uh uh about a fellow MP Pincher and and his um sexual harassment, and lies around sexual harassment actually ended up being his downfall. Um but he was gonna cling on, you know. Um and fascinatingly, um at the at the end, when he finally made his resignation speech, uh he never actually resigned. People sort of noticed that. Yeah, a few people have said that. Never uses the word. Come September. I never said I was going. Yeah, yeah. Is he giving himself some some wheel room? Um but just just listen to what he said outside of of number 10 when he basically resigned.
SPEAKER_08But as we've seen uh at Westminster, uh the herd instinct is powerful. When the herd moves, it moves. And my friends, in politics, no one is remotely indispensable. And our brilliant and Darwinian system will produce another leader equally committed to taking this country forward through tough times.
SPEAKER_10Our brilliant and Darwinian system. So that is what makes me think Boris ain't post-Christian. Boris is pre-Christian. Okay. Largely.
SPEAKER_02So unpack that then. Is he? Yeah. He just thinks it's the biggest dog should come out on top. Yeah. Survival of the fittest. Nature is read by tooth and claw. Right. So the person who gets to the top is the the biggest bully in the playground. Yes. Whoever wins the fight doesn't necessarily mean they're good for the position. Yeah. They're just big and bad.
SPEAKER_10Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Which is a great description of Boris.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, yeah. He's top dog. Um, and he he says that our brilliant system is Darwinian. And at that point you you think, ah, he thinks he's Julius Caesar getting knifed in the back. Right? Because that's that's basically um that is basically the the the way uh undemocratic societies operate. You know, you d the the top dog is top for a bit, yeah, and then he's topples. Yeah, and and then that's that's kind of Boris's um is is does Boris really look at the the grand history of parliaments that sort of go back into the medieval period, in which uh this hard-won belief that rulers only rule by the consent of the people, and that rulers are under God, and that they have a kind of a compact with the people, a contract with the people, a covenant with the people, if you like. And it's totally coming from kind of Old Testament theology, New Testament theology brought through into the medieval period and the first parliaments start to emerge in the sort of the thirteenth, fourteenth centuries. And it's not a Darwinian thing, you know. Um it's a it's a very undemocratic thing to say that actually our system is is Darwinian. I mean, um who was it? Winston Churchill sort of joked that um you know democracy is the worst form of government after all the others. And he said the best kind of uh government would be benevolent dictatorship tempered by assassination. Did he mean it? I don't know. Boris, a biographer of Winston Churchill, we have this brilliant Darwinian system where he thinks of himself as the benevolent dictator and he's been assassinated, and that's the sort of thing. So is he is he post-Christian? Is he Christian? I wonder whether he's even pre-Christian. Um because obviously an old Etonian goes to Oxford to read classics. Okay, and have you seen Boris Johnson reciting the classics? I have not. No. Should we should we have a look at Boris? And what's fascinating here is he's he's mayor of of London at this stage, and he's being asked by his interviewer, what gets you through when times are tough? When your back is against the wall, where do you turn? He does not turn to the Lord. He turns to ancient law. Let's let's have a look at the the Iliad.
SPEAKER_08And when things are really tough, and when they are and when when they are if they are ever if they ever find themselves stranded in the bush, say in in Arnhem Land, or in Kakadoos with a with a crocodile at the at the at the foot of the of the um the mangrove. And and and they are and they are and they are up the mangrove, and the crocodile is at the foot, and there is absolutely nothing for it but to hang on. And all they all they can do is think of all the things that they can remember. Do you tell me to shut up? I can shut up in a minute. All they all they can do is keep themselves uh conscious by reciting all the poetry that they know. They will not do better than to preserve, to pickle, uh to conserve in their brains forever the greatest uh classics of every reference, such as the Iliad. And that is what I do. When I'm in trouble, I recite to myself, Main and Eidethear Peleia Joe Wachileos, Ulomane, Homoria Kaios Algie The last if the moose pseucasa diproapsin hero now to stih conesin, or no se depassed, dios tia teletor bule exhude ta prota, the estate near sante atredes kenaxandron caldios Achilles Letus Cardios quilosile colos luson anaston ostane or the conto de la Hunecaton Crusane Atima Senaritera Atreides.
SPEAKER_02Oh, it's it's just embarrassing, isn't he? It's just embarrassing to watch.
SPEAKER_10Isn't that what you do when you're back into a corner? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Yep, totally. When I'm in the mangrove. Yeah. He was in Australia at that stage, that's why he's making those comments, but yeah. You say that's why he's making those comments. It's just that's just what Boris does, doesn't it? He could have been in the Antarctic, wouldn't have made any difference.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, yeah. But when he's asked a serious question about what gets you through, um, yeah, he he quotes the classics and and and like the Bible is not part of you know the the the classics for him, you know. He goes back to Homer's Iliad. And you know, the the Iliad is the story of the Trojan Wars, and it's all about the hero Achilles and his rage. Um yeah, it's all about wrath and rage and revenge. And that's that's what gets you through. Like, I don't know. Can you can you do your best, Boris? Because we've got we've got we've got a translation of the first stanza. Do we need a wing for Achilles? Have we got a wig for Paul?
SPEAKER_02Sing goddess Achilles Rage Black costs the Greeks incalculable pain pitched countless swords of heroes into Hades dark and left their bodies to rot as a feast for dogs and birds as Zeus' will was done begin with a clash between Agamemnon, the Greek warlord, and godlike Achilles. Which of the immortals set these two at each other's throats? Apollo, Zeus's son, and Leto is offended by the warlord. Agamemnon had dishonored Crises, Apollo's priest, so the god struck the Greek camp with plague, and the soldiers were dying of it. Wow. That was like he was in the room. I mean, Boris in that clip looked like a bit he was possessed, and now it people may be wondering whether channeling Boris. I don't know.
SPEAKER_10This could be your new party piece, I think. You could get it in Greek too, I reckon. I reckon. But yeah, so that yeah, it's it's a poem all about Achilles' rage and plague and soldiers dying and dishonor and clashes between the gods, and the the gods are all warlords. And this is comfort and solace. Yeah. Makes you feel warm and nice. He does not turn to Psalm 23. He turns to you know, he turns to this. And kind of extraordinarily um you know, I I wonder if you'd said to people 20 years ago the occupant of number twenty would be there with his girlfriend who has one child and then they get married and has another child. And the the current occupant of number 10 doesn't know how many children he has. Um it's it is a matter of dispute. Um I think we've even got a kind of a family tree for Boris.
SPEAKER_02It's I mean it came to a point where you think it would be quicker just to say who's not related to Boris. Yeah. Um so what we've got here, uh so we've got Alexander Boris Defeffel Johnson, and uh so we've got it was that a first marriage there with with no children. Yeah. Uh but then he was married to Marina Wheeler, and he's got one, two, three, four children. Lara Lettis, Milo Arthur, Cassia Peters, Theodore Apollo. Uh during that time he had an affair though with Helen McIntyre and he had a child named Stephanie. And then says there's a possible extra child from extra marital marital affair as well. Yeah. Don't know if that's supposed to I don't know whether that's supposed to go with that one or the one with during Carrie Simmons there. Um hard to sell. But then so Carrie Simmons, two children there as well. So that's at least uh what's that? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven confirmed children. Yes. Possibly another one. Yes.
SPEAKER_10And yet when it when he was asked on on one interview, um when when Romy Iris Charlotte was born, um, how many children do you have? Six now. And he was like, Yes, six. Which she was at least his seventh. Um but yeah, yeah, a man a man who doesn't know how many children he has. And if and if you told somebody twenty years ago, um the the occupant of number ten would be in there with uh his girlfriend who he was having an affair um with um when he was a cabinet minister and tried to get her a job for a hundred K plus um while he was having an affair with her cheating on Marina Wheeler. And I I'm very aware that I sound like I'm about a hundred and fifty years old by saying, Have people noticed how many children? Not all by the same woman. I I I very I'm very much aware of how this dates me and I I sound like a an old curmudgeon. Um but I'm j I'm just noticing you know it in terms of the moralities of different eras. And yet at the same time, the one thing that brought Boris Johnson down was that he lied about Chris Pincher. So it's n it's not that we as a society have no, you know, sexual morality at all. We we've got very finely tuned sexual morality. It's just kind of infidelity and extramarital affairs. Okay, not too bad. Is not even worth commenting on. And if you do, you're like me. You're like, you know. Um but what what brought him down after all you know what was it, what was his nickname when he was um at the telegraph? He was called the Greased Pig the Greased Piglet. Because you just couldn't you couldn't grab him, you couldn't pin him down, a greased piglet. He'd always escape. And finally, finally, what is it that pinned down the Greased Piglet? It was it was lying about sexual harassment. So is is Boris Well, you know, I I don't want to say he's pre-Christian because I've just written a book saying everybody has been shaped by the Christian revolution. It's the air we breathe, he hasn't been able to escape uh a Christianizing influence. None of us have. But he's pretty pre-Christi like like his his behavior is saintly by Roman standards. Sure. Um but it's appalling by our standards. So then then comes the question, okay, so our politics isn't pre-Christian, even if Boris acts as pre-Christian. Our politics is Christian and post-Christian. And let's let's like have a think about the ways in which it's Christian and the ways in which it's post-Christian. Um it's Christian in that much of Boris's behavior is um not on by public standards. Yeah, so party gate, for instance. Like what what what is it within what is it within our Christian sensibilities that that makes us draw the line at party gate?
SPEAKER_02The the hypocrisy of it, the idea that basically you do as I say, not as I do, that kind of thing. You know, as leaders we we don't follow the same rules as you. Yes. Actually we don't we're like no out because we're so strong into a kind of equality, it doesn't matter who you are, we all should be on the same page.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, yeah. All of which are profoundly Christian ideas. You know, you you say to a Caesar, rulers shouldn't be under the same, you know he would he would absolutely assume that rulers should not be under the same rules as well. What does it mean to rule? Of course I set the rules and other people um have to have to obey them. And then hypocrisy, again, Jesus coins the phrase um the hypocr the hypocrite, just that was a Greek word referring to a masked actor, and then suddenly Jesus starts calling all the like the religious authorities, you're all actors, you're all wearing a mask. Why should why should we be? Why should we have integrity? Why should we act the same when we're in private and in public in this venue and in that venue? Um why yeah, why why should we why should we serve as rulers? Yeah. I mean, as I say in the the air we breathe, you know, one of the great markers about how Christianized we've become is that we literally used to worship our rulers as gods. And now they take the name ministers, which means servants. You know, they used to be gods, now they're servants.
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SPEAKER_10Boris is meant to be the chief servant of the United Kingdom. And he is not meant to ascend the throne through a Darwinian struggle. Um and that's a another profoundly Christian thing. Um it is meant to be the consent of the people, it is meant to be by persuasion and argumentation and never by force. Um and it is meant to be rule of the people by the people and for the people, which is a phrase that was sort of emerged in the medieval times. In fact, it was um John Wycliffe in his preface to the New Testament, uh, whose I think he first coined the phrase rule of the people by the people for the people, and he was actually considering Christ's high priesthood. You know, it is a Christian idea that the one on the throne is one of us. You know. It's and we sometimes talk about, we used to talk about sending our man to the seat of power. You send your man to Westminster to represent Eastbourne um in the in the place of power. And that's all a kind of a it's kind of a reflection on a very Christian idea that Christ has ascended from the earth as our brother to reign as man for man. So rule of the people, by the people, for the people is this deeply kind of Christian idea. And so we've kind of gotten rid of Boris, sort of maybe kind of who knows? Man, is he like a greased spiglet or is he spiglet, right? Like a like a muscle kind of limpet clinging onto the hull of the ship. Um but now we have a whole bunch of people who are falling over themselves to present themselves as servants and wanting to seek not the the grand popular vote because they don't want to go to an election. But at least with within the Tory Party membership, they want to seek uh the consent of the people in order to rule. So that is something that's kind of deeply Christian, really. Um but then there's a question of are are we now post-Christian? Have we now taken on Christian values and uh kind of uh supercharged them such that we don't just believe in equality, now we believe in individualism. And we don't just believe in compassion, um we we believe in competitive victimhood. Um and we we now have rules of the game that have been totally shaped by Christianity Um even though we we've kind of been detached from those Christian moorings. Um and I thought one one thing that kind of shows that we're kind of in post-Christian territory is um let's have a look at Rishi Sunak's campaign video, uh which he released I think like the day after he resigned, or like two days after he resigned, and people sort of ask, he got that done really pretty quickly.
SPEAKER_09Family is everything to me, and my family gave me opportunities they could only dream of. But it was Britain, our country, that gave them and millions like them the chance of a better future. I got into politics because I want everyone in this country to have those same opportunities. To be able to give their children a better future.
SPEAKER_10So what what strikes me about I mean this is this is just emblematic of all the videos, is that everyone in politics is trying to tell their story. Like their personal story of their humble beginnings, right? And again, you want to be the David figure who's just the l- the lowly shepherd boy who, you know, for such a time as this, really me? You know, and it's and it and again that there's something really deeply Christian about it, because we love that story. We love the Rags to Riches story, um and we love the diversity, and we we love people, you know, coming from backgrounds that have traditionally been uh marginalized and somehow they triumph against the odds. And we live in a society in which we don't have a steep hierarchy in which you know you can you can you know you can get to the top. So we love that, but we just constantly tell stories. It's just like like everyone's campaigning is just like, well, speaking as dot dot dot does that bother you? Is it is does it only bother me? It probably only bothers me.
SPEAKER_02Well, I mean it all feels quite false anyway. Yeah. I mean the whole it that that kind of you know I'm still Rishi from the block kind of thing. Don't be fooled by the rock that I got. Uh you know, he's worth hundreds of millions, and that you say I'm just one of the people. We looked it up the other day. How much is Rishi Sunak worth?
SPEAKER_07With his wife, 730 million.
SPEAKER_10With his wife, 730 million. Right, right, right. Right, there you go. So I mean But again, like here's here's a kind of a post-Christian thing because like pre-Christian, you'd just be like, Yeah, I'm rich, so I'm better, so elect me. Or, you know, like I should be I should be your ruler.
SPEAKER_02But isn't that what they think anyway? Yes, yes, because isn't that I mean, because we kind of say we know as if that's not what they think. Like clearly they do think that. Yeah, yeah. You know. Oh, totally. Um whereas, you know, perhaps that doesn't mean they're right for the j the job.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, yeah. You know, but yeah. Like, but you could you could imagine a universe in which Rishi Sunak says, well, of course I should be the Chancellor, or of course I should be in I should be in number eleven or number ten, but definitely I should be in charge of the purse strings of this country. Look how good I am at handling money. I got loads of it. Right. You can imagine a universe in which like just let the billionaires rule this. They clearly know what they're doing, they know how to handle money. Yeah. Put me in charge of a of a budget that has that many zeros on it, I'll faint. Like I like I won't know what to do. Yeah. Put him in charge, he knows what to do with money. Oh, good.
SPEAKER_02Let's we've I mean it's uh it's easy, isn't it? You just you you give it to your friends, isn't that what you're supposed to do? Is that right? Is that what you want me to do? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_10So so even Rishi, who's worth 700 and whatever, 738 million?
unknown730.
SPEAKER_10730. I just gave him an extra. Worth eight million to him. Find it down the back of the sofa. 730 million, but he still has to spin the story as I'm still Rishi from the block. Yeah, yeah. And then when he was asked about his wife's fortune, he was like, Well, her parents started out with a hundred quid in the bank, and that's a rags to riches story. We we are so in love with the rags to riches story. Like, why? Well, because of Christianity, because of Jesus, like like a car a carpenter rules the universe. Like we we we love the rags to riches story, you know. So of course he's got to package it as that, even though we're all kind of Darwinians at heart and we all just you know we all just want to live in a dog-eat dog world, especially if if we've got money. But but it's it's what really bugs me is that they don't have long in these debates. We'll we'll see how absolutely boiled down these arguments are when they're debating one another to be the next leader. And they don't have long, and they but they what they spend all their time talking about, well, speaking as a this kind of person. And he's like, well, either you've either you've got wisdom and experience or you don't. Yeah. But again, I'm sounding 150 years old, aren't I?
SPEAKER_02And well, no, but also like s that that whole kind of speaking as this, speaking as that, that the so much today is based on I I have an authority on this because of this, you know, because I am this or I am that. But there's an assumption in there that if you're if you're not that, you can't speak on those things. Yes. So it seems a bit self-defeating almost to to be like as this I can speak on this. So you say, well, you can't speak for the rest of us then, because if you're different to me, that means you can't speak to me. Yes. But for some reason, at the moment now the idea is you can only speak on anything if you're directly Yes. You know. Yeah. You can only speak on issues around certain rights if you are someone in who's involved in that area or which moves into the post-truth thing.
SPEAKER_10Like we used to be into truth. Yeah, like just say something because it's true and and and it can be demonstrated to be true because it accords with reality.
SPEAKER_02Either you can be someone who can represent everyone, yes. Or you can't. Yeah. I mean, and of course, no one can truly in the political sphere be a good representative for everyone, but someone might be able to try and hear different voices and take on advice from all areas and walks of life and say, right, we need to try and make this work. Um So you can either do that or you can be the person who says, Well, I am this thing. Yeah. And I'm like, Well, are you saying you're useless for everything else then? If that's your thing? Yeah.
SPEAKER_10It's kind of the death of democracy at that point, isn't it? Because that's like, yeah, how how can you speak for others or rule for others? Yeah. Yeah. There's got to be a common humanity for democracy to work. Otherwise it's speaking as a hmm, well, okay, well then you go and rule all the You go rule all them. Yeah. Well Yeah. And that's what's that called? That's like tribalism. Yeah. Um so yeah, some of this some of this post-Christian kind of this this hyper focus on the individual um leads in some pretty silly leads to some pretty silly outcomes, really, and all this kind of identity politics. Which fascinatingly you I mean it's on both sides. It's it's with Labour as well as as and with the Lib Dems as as well as with the Tories identity politics. But you would more associate um identity politics with Labour than with the Tories. Um fascinatingly though, they've got a more diverse ethnic mix to their leadership kind of campaigns than than Labour did. I mean, Labour had a bunch of women in Kiostama and they elected the Kiastama, right? And Labour, you would think, would be more interested in diversity. They certainly talk more about diversity. Whereas for the Tories, um, they don't talk as much about identity politics. In fact, Kemi Badenach kind of speaks quite um quite strongly against being considered in in her ethnic terms or just because she's a woman. Um we've we've got a um a clip of her just in a in a second. She she speaks against this kind of identity politics and and and dividing us up by race, and she is more representative, I guess, of of uh of a conservative view, and yet the conservatives have managed to achieve what Labour hadn't achieved in terms of its racial mix. I think that's very interesting. Let's have a look at Kemi talking against uh critical race theory here.
SPEAKER_00What we are against is the teaching of contested political ideas as if they are accepted fact. We don't do this with communism, we don't do this with socialism, we don't do it with capitalism. And I want to speak about a dangerous trend in race relations that has come far too close to the home to my life. And it's the promotion of political race theory, an ideology as a fashion, and absolutely critical race theory. I've been showing you that. We do not have a stuff movement in the summer. It is a political movement, but if members of the state members of the public political movement instead of pretending that it is a completely wholesome anti-racist organization, there is a lot of malicious stuff that is being pushed, and we stand against that. We do not want to see teachers teaching the white people about white privilege and inherited racial guilt. And let me be clear: any school which teaches these elements of critical race theory as fact, or which promotes partisan political views such as defunding the police without offering a balanced treatment of opposing views is breaking the law.
SPEAKER_10Strong stuff. Yeah, certainly. And and I mean, I would say on that that okay, that's a that's a political position that people can take as political conservatives on that. I think I think a Christian view would want to throw into the mix, you know what, there are categories for corporate sin. There there are power dynamics that are worth pressing into. And for those reasons, um you you might not want to throw all of critical race theory out of the you know, uh out with the bathwater, you know. Um you you don't want to throw throw the the corporate element of sin and the reality of power dynamics, you don't want to throw that baby out with the bathwater um of of CRT. You want to scrutinize it with scripture um as king over the top of that discussion. Um so I think I think a Christian a Christian approach to CRT is different from a merely conservative political response to CRT. Having said that, it's interesting when you see a conservative political response to CRT that is as strong as Kemi Badenox, you also see Kemi Badenock, she might be the new Prime Minister of Britain. Like in in a few weeks' time, there might be a black woman, a Prime Minister of the UK, who doesn't believe she that her her blackness or her femaleness has anything to say to whether she should be there or not. Yeah. That's just a fascinating dynamic. And for those who are who bang the drum more for diversity, but uh tend to be more monochrome. Actually. But you you can tell, you can tell the the class of someone, you can tell whether they've been to university if they make that kind of comment.
SPEAKER_02You can guess their race. Ironically, they're probably going to be more cross with Kemi Badenok. Yes. For those views. Yes. And you know, despite that if she did become Prime Minister and was saying those things, they wouldn't be applauding. No. They'd be quite cross about it, I imagine. Yes. Because it doesn't fit their narrative.
SPEAKER_10Right. To which she can and has responded, oh, are there only certain thoughts I'm allowed to have as a black woman? Like please, please, white people, educate me in all the thoughts I'm allowed to have as a black as a black woman. So I I I think that kind of points to the fact we've gotten to a post-Christian place when it comes to diversity and inclusion that has some Christian presuppositions that you we're um we're equals, um, and that community together, Jew and Gentile, the host the wall of hostility has been broken down, says Ephesians 2, and there's there's neither male nor female, slave nor free, Jew nor Gentile, we are all one in Christ Jesus, says Galatians 3, verse 28. Um there are some really Christian presuppositions going on, but they've been detached from the Jesus story, such that now we don't really want to be one around the same table. We want to be equally high up our individual ladders, and that and we're pulling apart and playing these diversity games and the identity politics. Um and and so it's it's not a pre-Christian phase that we're in, it's been decisively shaped by Christianity, but it is moving into a post-Christian territory in which diversity and inclusion becomes um uh a a real steamroller. And even a Kami a Kemi Badenok is not allowed to say what she just said because we need to we need to raise a banner for diversity and inclusion, at which point you're telling a black woman what to think. Yep. In the name of diversity and inclusion, something's gone wrong. Yep. Something's gone wrong. And and again, this is this is not to just fall onto the right side of that political debate, it is to call everybody above to the Christianity that that informs this. And and let's let's preach the gospel again in which there is no male nor female, Jew nor Gentile, slave nor free, and in which all nations, tribes, and peoples and tongues are united in Jesus rather than just equal together, claiming their own distinct identities. So there there's a sign, I think, that we're in post-Christian land, all this kind of identity politics. Um Two more signs that I think we're in post-Christian land. Um one is the absolute and I've bang this drum all the time, I know, but the absolute veneration of the NHS. It it would be political suicide to e to to even think about breaking up the NHS or think you know, thinking about any other way of structuring uh the health service in the UK. And uh at the Channel 4 debate that was held uh on Friday night, I thought this um this clip is just uh embarrassing and I I feel like I need to have a shower after I watch this. Tom Tuganath um was asked by uh she was a nurse in the NHS about the NHS, and just look at the kowtowing you have to do in UK politics when the subject of the NHS comes up.
SPEAKER_12You've also given me two children, so I'm also grateful for that. Not you personally, of course.
SPEAKER_02Brilliant.
SPEAKER_10She's because she's like a high priestess of the NHS, such that when the nurse appears, the NHS appears. And that to thank her is just to thank the NHS. And it's the NHS has given him children. It's just like sorry. It's just as someone who's not in the UK, I it it's just one of those things that I'm like, really? Okay. Alright. Um and I and and why do I say that's a post-Christian thing? Well, uh Tom Holland in Dominions sort of pointed out that World War II has been the the shaping mythology for the West. Um, you know, for 1900 years, the moral exemplar for the West was Jesus Christ. Since 1939, the moral exemplar has been Adolf Hitler. And for the first 1900 years, you looked at Jesus and you said, What would Jesus do? And you'd do it. Now we look at Hitler and we said, What did Hitler do? And you do the opposite. And so where he bumped off all the weak and the disabled, we must do the opposite. Where where he was a racist, we're not going to be racist. Um hence, you know, the previous discussion about CRT, etc. Um and where he would uh winnow the weak and do away with them, we will protect them and provide big welfare states and the NHS. And it's often joked that the NHS is is the national religion of the UK and there's a lot of truth to that. And you can see you can see the kowtowing to the NHS and just uh and the yeah, and this this woman became an avatar of the NHS. He's he teared up at a nurse. In in a lot of other countries, we're just like, Well, yeah, thanks for being a nurse, but you know, um Yeah, we we we clapped the NHS during twenty twenty. A lot of a lot of you know in in other nations a lot of people you know clapped emergency healthcare workers and and you know emergency services and all that kind of stuff but yeah we clap the NHS as as this saviour as a saviour that we you know that we swear allegiance to so you know is this is this another kind of post-Christian thing and and then the f the final kind of post-Christian marker for me was just the the brevity of these um debates um certainly the the the last one that I saw was ITV on Sunday night and there were five people still in the race at that time and um fascinatingly like one one of the questions right towards the end was okay what are you gonna do about the cr the climate emergency which is a question that is literally about everything. Like the climate is literally about everything. What are you gonna do about the world? Yeah you know and saving the world and it involves obviously all sorts of energy you know um questions and whether you go nuclear and what about fossil fuels and all sorts of of other things and and will you hit net zero and are you still committed to hitting net zero but but like they were asked a question about the climate emergency and each person was given 10 seconds to respond.
SPEAKER_05Quick follow-up question now on climate your COP president Alex Sharmer has threatened to resign if you fail to lead on the climate crisis we face can you confirm there will be no backing down absolutely no backing down on our commitment to net commitment to net zero by 2050 if you become Prime Minister Penny.
SPEAKER_01I'm committed to that but it mustn't clother people our plan uh it has to support our levelling up an industrial strategy and our energy resilience.
SPEAKER_10Okay Tommy I'm committed to making sure that we deliver the nuclear reactors to keep it screen that we deliver the nuclear reactors that are going to drive an export economy the carbon capture and storage in Scotland and you compare that to in in the nineteenth century um uh you know Abraham Lincoln in in his presidential debates was debating the other guy whose name I've forgotten for seven hours and people came and they brought their lunch and they and they followed an argument for seven hours. You know it's kind of the most they reckon that nineteenth century America was kind of the most educated you know sort of sliver of time and place that that we've ever had. And people were able to sort of do that. And I think we've you know and and and again the place of education within the Christian revolution has been just been immense through the medieval times and the establishment of the universities and classical education and that sort of thing. One of the signs that we might be in a post-Christian age is that wow we we only get ten second sound bites about climate and we begin them with eight and a half seconds on on well speaking as a minority so yeah there's my there's my analysis I don't know who anyone's going to vote for or why but yeah I I think it's interesting to to think about why and think about what are the moral intuitions that we have what are the politicians playing to and how have we gotten these these kind of moral assumptions. Boris let's say pre-Christian a lot of the movements to topple him were Christian and a lot of the ways in which we want to replace him post-Christian.
SPEAKER_02But yeah interesting food for thought there you go things I've not really thought about before so yeah good to know people can feed back and tell me how wrong I am but uh yeah it will only show how very Christian they are if we know if we know how YouTube works people will be doing that furiously as we speak.
SPEAKER_07Uh great guys thank you very much for joining us hope you've enjoyed that as Glenn said do pop your comments uh down below let us know what you think get in touch uh we'd love to hear what you've got to say um and yeah we will catch you for another speakeasy at some point in the future until then take care bless well there we go thank you so much for listening to the Speak Life podcasts just a small thing you can do to support speaklife we're thinking a lot about our media and how we can continue to make videos and podcasts that bless you and see all of life with Jesus at the centre because we really do believe that he runs the show and so what you can do is subscribe to the Speak Life YouTube channel. All you need is a Google account so if you have a Gmail then you will be able to click the little subscribe button on our YouTube channel and that will just help our content to be seen and heard by more people so if if our content has been a blessing to you and you think others would benefit then you can just go to youtube.com forward slash speaklifemedia or just type speaklife into the YouTube search bar and give us a little subscribe there if you haven't done so already that would be very much appreciated. And while you're at it feel free to have a browse of the speaklife youtube channel we've got all sorts of resources all our podcast episodes are uh available as videos as well I believe on the Speak Life YouTube channel so if you only know us by this podcast there's a whole schmogers board or cornucopia or another pretentious word like that to describe what is available to you completely free on the Speak Life YouTube channel. Well that's all from me thank you so much for listening and we will be back next week