The Speak Life Podcast, sharing Jesus in everyday life.
SPEAKER_04Does anyone know why we do what we do?
SPEAKER_07We get paid for this. Incredibly.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I wrote that this morning at about 5 30. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07We could tell.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Kind of the the kids the kids they don't recognise the new uh the new time zone. So yeah.
SPEAKER_07Oh, so you're up early. I was up early. An early start for you.
SPEAKER_04So I thought, why not redeem the time and write pure silliness?
SPEAKER_07Yep.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And that's what we got.
SPEAKER_06That's what we got. There we go.
SPEAKER_04But there's a reason behind the silliness. Okay, because I I think some evangelical reactions to Kanye are a little bit like that. Like how do we jump onto the bandwagon and not sound like grandpa? Yep. Yeah, absolutely. I get that. Certainly that's that's been my my heart. Because I know the minute I open my mouth about Kanye, I have to say I'm not the biggest Kanye fan. Sure. Um can you name a Kanye song? Uh yeah. Yeah. Stronger. Stronger, me too. That's that's the song I think. Yeah, I know these things. Yeah, yeah. But there there is this flurry of activity now because he's released his album, uh Jesus is King.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, long awaited. It's been in the pipeline for a little bit, hasn't it? Ninth studio album, isn't it?
SPEAKER_04Ninth studio album, yes, you've been Googling too.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. I just know these things. You've been listening though, haven't you already to kind of I've listened to the the whole album all 27 minutes. Short change twenty slightly.
SPEAKER_04Does he still charge the same amount for 27 minutes? That's probably probably.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Um yeah, I listened to it this morning. Um and I I I watched, I kind of put it up on YouTube and I got the lyrics up as well, so I could listen and kind of hear what we're talking about. Um yeah, I mean it's in it's an interesting listen, that's for sure. Yeah. Without giving too much away there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And I think I think probably it's the contrast that is the story, isn't it? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. When you when you contrast Kanye and his antics, BC, to what has happened since his turnaround. I mean he's he's he's kind of claiming he's come to Christ in the last few months. That's kind of the claim.
SPEAKER_07I'm guessing so, yeah, although Yeah, I don't know how long the album's been in production, like in terms of actually writing that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04He rattled it off. And it's all other people's music that he just raps over. You know. He is the Chris Tomlin of rap. He's just he takes music that was perfectly fine, shots fired, adds a adds a little something to it and uh and makes billions of billions of dollars. Yeah, yeah. But uh yeah, so I I think he's he's claiming to have come to Christ in the last sort of four or five months, that sort of thing. Sure. And for those, you know, skeptical about that that kind of turnaround, um, I did see a really interesting interview on Apologia Studios, uh, where they got to they got to talk to the pastor that Kanye visited and who has been evangelizing Kanye. And he was a graduate of Master's Seminary, which is where John MacArthur teaches. He's a total John MacArthur, he's a black coffee Calvinist, Baptist, you know, preacher who is a straight up Bible guy.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, and I'd heard the same. And so certainly the people around him and and listening to the album, you know, and and looking at the lyrics. I mean, I I came away thinking like, yeah, there's a level of there's a depth of uh theological stuff being said here which is more than just you know a smattering of Christian ideas thrown on the top of uh a track. Yes. You know, there's a there is a sense that he's clearly he's clean clearly been hearing stuff and being kind of discipled in some way or taught.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_07More so than, you know, perhaps someone who would just be cashing in and let's just throw a bit of Jesus on the top and whatnot.
SPEAKER_04And even in his persona, not just in w what he's saying, but how he's saying things now in interviews, he seems a lot more at peace, he seems a lot more sane. You know, he talks about talks about that in his lyrics as well.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I mean yeah, it's a complete different I mean and I said before about him, you know. I mean, I'm not a fan of Kanye, uh like his music, or or I hadn't really been a particular fan of him as a person, if I want to say. Yeah, right. Um because and and I'd say a few times genuinely to people, I said, look, I th when I see Kanye West get up and do things, we'll see a few things he'd said and done before in a moment. I used to say, like, he's either he is the most arrogant person on the planet um or he is mentally ill. Yeah. Like there then there's something wrong with this guy if he genuinely thinks he sings, but you know, there's something going on here, you know.
SPEAKER_04He has a god complex. Yeah. He definitely does have a god complex.
SPEAKER_07But uh yeah, but the th th what I've seen of him in some of the interviews since, you're kind of like, oh, this is very I don't think you can just put that on for some kind of commercial gain.
SPEAKER_04Yes, because I don't I don't think he's gonna get commercial gain out of it.
SPEAKER_07Well no, I'm not sure it's a smart move at all.
SPEAKER_04No, you know, become a Christian, embrace martyrdom. Yeah. Yeah, there will there will be a cost, I think, to him. And and already, you know, he he jumps into everything that he does with both feet, doesn't he? Um we're seeing him jump into lots of culture war issues and he doesn't care, you know. Um, you know, he'll wear a MAGA hat and you know get masses of backlash, you know, from the black community because you know, apparently you've got to have your politics align with your skin colour these days. But you know um but he didn't mind, you know. I I guess he's got enough cash where he doesn't need to care, you know. He can chill for a little bit, and even if he's you know thrust out into the wilderness for a while, um he's you know he's got a he's got a bit of spare change down the back of the couch. But should we should we see some of the journey that Canyon's been on? Um one of the f more fun moments uh of the last I guess this is like ten years ago. When did all the single ladies come out?
SPEAKER_07Man, I don't even know. Yeah, it's probably it's probably it's probably around then, if not over a day.
SPEAKER_04I think I think it might be 09.
SPEAKER_07It's worrying, isn't it?
SPEAKER_04All the single ladies was out, and everyone was tipping that was gonna be the MTV Music Award, like video of the year. Yeah. And Kanye um was not very happy that Taylor Swift won. No, not impressed. Let's have a look at the clip.
SPEAKER_03I'm really happy for you, I'm gonna let you finish. One of the best videos of Alamatam! One of the best videos of Alma Tam!
SPEAKER_07So, you know. That's probably like the that's probably the most famous. If you're not a Kanye fan, if you don't really follow him, yeah, um I think most people will have come across that before. Yeah. Um and seen what went on there.
SPEAKER_04The thing is, he was right. He was right. All the single ladies was far better than Taylor Swift.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, well you know well, yeah, undoubtedly. Not too difficult to be better than Taylor Swift, is it? But um Yeah, but I mean I watched it when I watch that I just think, oh man, what a wally. You know, who's this guy think he is? It's very you know, all very well to have that opinion, but like seriously, yeah, get off the stage. No one cares what you think. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um who does he think he is? Well, in the next clip, we will see who exactly Kanye West has thought of himself as. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I am a god. Everybody says, who does he think he is? I just told you who I thought I was. A god. I just told you. That's who I think I am. I'm standing up and I'm telling you I am Warhol. I am the number one most impactful artist of our generation. I am Shakespeare in the flesh. Well, Disney, Nike, Google. Now, who's gonna be the Medici family and stand up and let me create more? Or do you want to marginalize me till I'm out of my moment? Or why don't you empower yourself and don't need them and do it yourself? You already got the answers, man! You already got the answers, you already got the answers. You already got the answers, Dwayne. I've been doing this more than you.
SPEAKER_02Like, I love it. It's like it's like you ain't got the answers.
SPEAKER_07You ain't got the answers.
SPEAKER_04This is what we need on the on the live cast.
SPEAKER_07Oh man.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, he does have dragon energy. He does.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, sure, sure. He totally does. Again, you just watch that and you just think, man, this guy. And you know, again, I was watching that when I've seen it in the last few years and just thought, like, how on earth? Like, is it is it an act that he's doing? You know, it's a very convincing act if it is. Yeah. Yeah. But surely, like, to me, he's like a I just I used to look at the stuff he'd done like that and those kind of clips and just think, like, this guy, is he a real is he a real person? Like, he's like a walking cliche of like, you you think surely s no one could really be that arrogant and really believe those things about themselves unless there was something seriously wrong with them, you know.
SPEAKER_04Um He's a force of nature. You know, we do we do know people like that. Like, like I I I know people who are just like full of beans, full of juice, full of energy. I mean, obviously Kanye is taking it to another level. Yeah, that's like on steroids.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, full of juice on steroids ramped up to another level though.
SPEAKER_04He does he does have a God complex. I am God, right? Yeah, yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_07I just told you who I think I am. Gods.
SPEAKER_04And so, you know, w one of his albums called Yeezus, and he did a tour. So Kanye went through this incarnation, shall we call it, as Yeez, in which you know he appeared on a Y-shaped cross, in which he uh yeah, spoke from the top of the mountain, Moses style, or or I I guess he wasn't really Moses, he was God, you know.
SPEAKER_07Probably, yeah, given given what he said before.
SPEAKER_04On top of the mountain, kind of preaching in autotune and to the assembled masses below. But in in some senses, I think he's kind of embracing what pop culture is. He's embracing um what an icon is, what an idol is. Kind of, you know, we want to put our idols on pedestals. And with Kanye, we we found a a willing kind of a willing recipient of our praise. And he was like, You want to treat me like a god? You want to be idol worshippers? Then okay, I am your God. Sure.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And away he went. And so he was he was Jesus. And all of that is background to this recent conversion, and I think that that's why it's making the headlines that we've got somebody who's incredibly proud, uh, somebody who uh like has almost the definition of a of a God complex. Um suddenly realizing he's not God. Um I once I've I've got a friend who um he actually became a Christian because he first of all thought he was the son of God, and he was having a psychotic episode, he was in hospital, and um another another guy on the mental health wing of this hospital um said, Oh, it's so good to meet you, you're the son of God. Brilliant! Because I I've got this question about Revelation chapter 11. I don't know really what's going on, so could you help me out with Revelation 11? And this guy said, I've never actually read the Bible. And so the other guy said, You haven't read the Bible, but you're Jesus, you're me you're meant to have read the Bible. He's like, Okay, I will. And so he went back, he read the Gideon's Bible, and he said, I made the two most wonderful um uh realizations a human being can make. You know, one, Jesus is the Son of God, two, I'm not. Yeah, yeah. And it's like Kanye's come to this same realization as well, you know, Jesus is king, I'm not. And in some ways, that's kind of restoring his sanity.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um, so we've got um we've got a couple of clips about um Kanye having his sanity restored. Um the first uh that we're gonna look at is um Kanye doing like a reading at a big concert. He's doing a Bible reading from Philippians 2, and he apologizes for not knowing how to pronounce words. Yeah. Incredible like humility. And then straight after that we'll see um him on Jimmy Kimmel uh talking about being a Christian everything. Let's have a look.
SPEAKER_00I want to let you guys know that I'm not here for your entertainment this afternoon. We're here to spread the gospel. Philippians 2. Excuse me if I mispronounce anything. I'm a recent convert. It means I'm recently gonna say within this year.
SPEAKER_02So I've been a gambling scalmie and have I'm a number and have given my life to Jesus Christ and work for me. Do you consider yourself to be a Christian music artist now?
SPEAKER_00I'm just I'm a Christian everything. Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_04That's pretty cool, because quite often Christian artists are asked, are you a Christian artist? And they'll say, Well, I'm an artist who happens to be a Christian. Sure.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I really like Kanye's answer. He's like, well, I'm a Christian. Christian everything.
SPEAKER_07Just a Christian everything.
SPEAKER_04Isn't that great? Yeah, yeah. Because the answer, like, well, I'm a I'm a an artist who happens to be a Christian, I actually puts the Christian thing on the back of the bono. And Kanye is like, no, no, I'm Christian everything. So, you know, whatever he does, he jumps in with both feet. Yeah, absolutely. This could be this could be a very good thing. Uh so and I loved it, I love the humility of him saying, I'm a recent convert. Um Yeah, and the humility of saying I get things wrong, and the humility of saying that he's had to start again. You know, in the same way that you think Jesus said to Nebuchadnezzar, a guy who was at the top of the tree, um, you gotta be born again. You gotta start again, you b you gotta be a baby. And I I see him kind of embracing that right now, and kind of he's he's the top of the tree in terms of being an artist. He still talks about being the greatest artist on planet earth. And nobody can disagree with that. Um just give me give me a few minutes. Sit down with Paul Feasy, he'll take you down a peg or two.
SPEAKER_07No, I mean, I mean, I'm I uh looking at what he said and stuff, and there's a bit of another clip in a moment, we'll see. You know, he it's an amazing transformation, isn't it? From where he's gone from to and um I mean the fascinating thing has been watching people's reactions to it that some people have kind of been like, oh, but I think of all the things he said and done, you know, how can he really you know be changed and anything like that? That's kind of how Christianity works, right? You know, like you know, most of our New Testament or not the most of our, but uh the most of it, majority of our books in the New Testament written by the Apostle Paul. And you think, well, you would wouldn't you not have just said the same about him? You know, when he became a Christian, there was distrust, wasn't there initially? Ananias. Yes. Uh not Ananias, sorry, um what's the guy's name? Uh I've said Ananias now, that's right. No, the one he goes to.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, it is, isn't it?
SPEAKER_07Is it? Yeah, yeah. I think Ananias and Sapphira and Oh right, so yeah, Annas on straight side. Anis, Anis. Yes. There we go. That's yeah. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah, so there was distrust there, like really, like this guy. Um we'll see, won't we, I guess.
SPEAKER_04We'll see. And we'll we'll get on to you know, how do how do we respond to such a such a turnaround? Uh Sam James uh on uh Top Chat has said maybe there will be a debate in the future entitled Did Kanye ever claim to be God? Yes.
SPEAKER_07Well maybe they'll say that. I don't know.
SPEAKER_04What what do you think about that clip though, Sam? It did it did seem it did seem to be quite insistent on the point, but maybe not, maybe not. But um so the the the piece of uh footage that's come out that uh I've been most encouraged by uh has been the interview with Zayn Lowe for Apple Music, um, where they actually, you know, Zayn Lowe goes out to Kanye's farm in Wyoming, which is terrific because it's it's just the fulfillment of um a beautiful Onion article from like 2011, like eight years ago. The Onion wrote this totally spoofed piece about how Kanye um it's called a fully validated Kanye West retires to farm in Iowa. It's just this idea that Kanye gets all the affirmation he could ever possibly need. I'm done now. I'm done. And he retires to a farm in Iowa and lives lives a small life, you know, out there. And so here we are. And here we are. Here we are. And what was was so interesting to me, reflecting back on the onion article, the only way they could think that Kanye would be changed is if he got all the validation he needed, right? Is if he was you know fulfilled and and he got the self-love that he needed. That's salvation, that's what's gonna, you know, change Kanye. Um well, no, that's not gonna change Kanye. We all know how ridiculous it is to keep on wanting that self-affirmation. Um what really changes Kanye is is being born again from above.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And then all of a sudden he does it doesn't exactly retire to a farm, but he does say, I'm not an entertainer anymore. I'm not here for your entertainment, I'm here to spread the gospel, and he retires to a farm in Wyoming. So um the onion were off, yeah, you know, in the in the state that they chose. But um, let's let's have a look at this this great um interview between Zane Lowe and some of the some of the truth bombs that Kanye drops here.
SPEAKER_00The more that I'm in service to God, I just clear my head and just wake up more empty every day and then let and let God do the driving and just use me as he may be Christian. Entertainer rap a pa a preacher. Well, no longer entertainer. I'm not here for anyone's entertainment. Now that I'm in service to Christ, my job is to spread the gospel, to let people know what Jesus has done for me. You know, I've spread it a lot of things. I I there was a time I was letting you know what high fashion had done for me. I was letting you know what the Hennessy had done for me, I was letting you know all these things, but now I'm letting you know what Jesus has done for me. And that I'm no longer uh I'm no longer a slave. I'm a son now, a son of God. I'm free through Christ. God is using me. God is using me to show off, I believe. He like, you know, God is similar to He's saying he wanted the loudest voice and the and the the one who made the most noise to make to make the most impact. Yeah, he wanted to show off. He's like, now let me take uh this, let me take this Nebuchadnezzar type character. Nebuchadnezzar was the king, was it is it uh Babylon? Nebuchadnezzar was the king of Babylon, and he looked at his entire kingdom and said, I did this. And God said, Oh, for real, you did this? Sounds kind of similar, right? I'm standing on the tip of the mountain talking about Jesus said I did this. I'm a God. I'm a God, and I could talk to Jesus at the end of my show. A God dressed up as Jesus at the end of my show. He's standing on a huge mountain. And that huge mountain, first of all, I didn't make any money off the tour. I'm lugging a mountain around, and God said, okay. Nebuchadnezzar was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. He was and he was still king.
SPEAKER_04Well, I'm not actually sure that he was biagnosed with bipolar disorder.
SPEAKER_07No, but probably people have looked and said maybe there's something similar there. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04And we'll we'll think about Daniel chapter four in a second, because I th I think that's a really interesting um parallel with what's happened to Kanye. Um and if you if you're gonna think of like who is King Nebuchadnezzar today, um actually probably the closest thing we have to royalty today are the Kardashians anyway. Like um and in terms of their their influence, um uh yeah, so that that's interesting. But but I I think with the reactions that we've seen to Kanye, um I see uh I see a lot of people lining up uh on different ends of different axes. Um so one axis that people um kind of line up on is um it's all about the conversion, let's celebrate the conversion and well wait and see. It's all about discipleship, it's all about the life lived.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um and I I guess with conversion, um, people are are kind of camping out in uh Luke chapter 15, you know, there's more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner that repents than over 99 righteous people who don't need to repent. And so people are kind of saying, um, you know, let's just you know, he's a sinner's come home. Let's just rejoice right now. Yeah, but then a lot of other people are saying, wait and see. Why are they saying wait and see?
SPEAKER_07Well, I guess uh you know, uh so if we where would I be on that spectrum, you know? Um, you know, I I s I I would definitely sit more in the wait and see. And I know I need to I I'm the kind of person who generally, you know, when we've been in church and stuff, and they'll say, Oh, so and so well, you go on camp, so-and-so has given their lives to Jesus. Yeah. And and I'm always like, that's a good thing. Um, and I probably need to be more excited about it, but for me, I always think like it's all I think the church's issue sometimes is when someone becomes a Christian, we almost kind of go like, great job done. Right. You know, and for me, I'm like, well, it's almost like someone's pulled the trigger at the beginning of the race and there's actually now a race, you know, like so. This guy, Kanye, he's literally just started the race.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um and there's a long road ahead. Um and that's kind of where we're gonna see you know, you know, I'd be I I'm more amazed by the people who've been Christians for forty years through the highs and the lows and they're still clinging on to Jesus um in some way. No, I should be more amazed by the the Kanye stuff, I know that. Um but maybe it's just 'cause I'm such a cynic, but um Yeah. Uh but yeah, I mean it's I guess it's to do with the the the seed falling on different types of soils, isn't it? Okay. You know, so you look at someone like Kenny and you go, I you know, I really hope that the seed here has fallen on good soil. Um but you just don't know because the the thing about the those the three soils, the one that it takes root in the shallow soil and the one where it grows amongst the thorns and even the good soil, that the thing that those three have in common is they all look like they're going all right for a while, don't they?
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_07So at the beginning it's really hard to tell. So that's why in a sense time will tell. We'll see what fruit will come from it and will he will he stick with it? Will it turn out to be a a cynical marketing thing or will he get consumed again by fame and money? I don't know.
SPEAKER_04Like let's hope he doesn't yeah yeah and and there is some that that sprouts early but the the soil is shallow and and when trouble or persecution comes they fall fall away on account of the word and you know I guess trouble or persecution is going to come for Kanye in various ways. Yeah yeah um so that's that's where the wait and see people are so that's that's one axis it's it's let's rejoice in the conversion versus let's wait and see about the the the whole life lived. Another axis that people seem to be lining up on is I've called it the bandwagoning versus the glad wagoning hear me out hear me out okay so the bandwagoning um is um people people are worried that that's um certain christians are just really happy that a celebrity trusts in Jesus sure yeah and there can be a really unhealthy an unhealthy desire to look up to celebrities and say oh I guess it's okay that I trust in Jesus because Justin Bieber does and that's that's just bandwagoning and that's and that's silly and I guess there's there's kind of Acts chapter 16 um that you've got to contend with because there you've got this female slave girl who has a spirit by which she predicts the future and she follows Paul and the rest of them around shouting these men are servants of the most high God we're telling you the way to be saved. So she's saying a lot of great stuff you know but actually Paul became so annoyed he turned around and said to the spirit in the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her at that moment the spirit left her which I'm not saying there's all sorts of things that are parallel to Kanye's case I'm not s I'm not saying he's demon possessed, I'm not saying he's a devil or anything remotely like that. But I am saying Paul doesn't seem to think that all publicity is good publicity. Right. Necessarily at times he tells people to shut up if they're saying things from wrong motives so as we climb onto bandwagons and say well hey somebody's saying something nice about Jesus well I mean also ca the the day there there are people who would who would do the kind of hey look he says he says he's a Christian it's all good and you're like yeah but then there's loads of people who say they're Christian.
SPEAKER_07I doubt those same people will be saying Donald Trump says he's a Christian it's all good. You know like everyone has different standards you know about who they want to say is it's good when they say they're a Christian and who who not so yeah we only claim Jesus for ourselves.
SPEAKER_04So that's the bandwagoning danger but there's but you know I I think there's also glad wagoning glad wagoning with us. Well it's I I'm just glad to hear the name of Jesus lifted up like you know sure. And and we we had this last year with Michael Curry's uh Royal Wedding Sermon. Oh yeah where you know I think a lot of evangelicals were happy to hear Michael Curry like name Jesus and talk about you know this God of love but then a lot of people said ah but what about the other stuff in his life that a a man who had whose theology didn't necessarily line up with theirs gave a without sermon most of them live on a Sunday. If I can be blunt you know so right so you're very much on the glad wagoning which I am which I am too and I I think when people hear the name of Jesus I think there's a lot of people who just say look I don't know about everything else. I just love that there's a hashtag that's trending that says Jesus is king.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Isn't that nice? Pretty weird age we live in isn't it like when you see that on Twitter you're like what?
SPEAKER_04Yeah it's bizarre. And I guess the verse for that is kind of Philippians 1 and Paul is in prison he says that some are preaching Christ out of envy and rivalry others out of goodwill but by the end in verse 18 he just says but what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way whether from false motives or true Christ is preached and because of this I rejoice. That's Paul getting on his glad wagon.
SPEAKER_07Yeah and and I think when you listen to the album and you look at the lyrics you as I said earlier undeniably there is some good theological depth in there you know and and the things he said there you know I'm I'm I'm a son now, I'm not a slave, I'm free, you're like that's not the kind of language of someone who I mean firstly that's just good stuff to hear. Yeah you know that is good theology to be hitting people with but also that's not the kind of thing I think if you've got a shallow kind of understanding of Christianity I don't think people go around saying those kind of things. No right you know it's that there just seems to be something deeper there. Yeah. So I think you know he's preaching good stuff yeah yeah from what we're hearing.
SPEAKER_04I think so Sam James says Jesus is also pro-publicity as well as anti-publicity. Yeah exactly you know the demons say you're the son of the most high and Jesus says shut up. Yeah or he says people don't go and tell anyone don't you know anyone um so it depends like it's not that all publicity is good publicity. Sure. But sometimes it's just great to hear somebody say Jesus is king. So there's there's that uh there's that uh axis that people line up on the conversion versus the the whole life there's bad wag bandwagoning versus bandwagoning. It's gonna catch on I promise it'll be a hashtag by the end of the day. And then and then for me like I I very rarely think of Kanye as a person as the man Kanye West who has come to Christ. And I'm very challenged and and I'm grateful to be challenged by people who are like well let's pray for the man Kanye West that that this sticks with him and that he sticks with Jesus because my instinct is always to think about the culture and the wider phenomenon and the impact on the world that Kanye and his words might have. So while while some people are very um the the only reaction they want to make to Kanye is to Kanye the individual and how is he going to go on with the Lord or not. Whereas I'm looking at a whole culture that is now like you you saw a tweet earlier today where someone said I've I've found myself in church and Yeah what did they say?
SPEAKER_07I think I wrote it down on here somewhere but um they said yeah like I'm an atheist and Kanye got me saying Jesus is king and it feels good.
SPEAKER_04Right yeah yeah yeah yeah you're like okay yeah so and there and there are other tweets from people saying I found myself in church and now I've now I've been saved you know through and who you know who knows that's that's could be bandwagoning as well. Sure yeah you just don't know at the end of the day but I mean but there is a cultural impact um and so is it is it about the person or is it about the cultural phenomenon?
SPEAKER_07That's interesting isn't it because like you say you think oh that you have the big thing of where does how does that affect the culture and where's it hit? Whereas interesting I mean they've got a comment here there Tim Gas said we need to pray finds a barnabas um you know in my mind when I hear about that I when I hear about Kanye I'm I'm kind of thinking to myself like you know in a sense I'm not so fussed about his impact on the culture. I more look at him and I'm concerned that he's an individual who will get hijacked. And then we've already heard like someone said like Joel Osteen has invited him to his church and you just think you don't want him to fall in with false teachers like that. You want him to be taken under the wing of some great kind of biblical Christians who were It'd be cool if we went and preached the gospel at Lakeside first time.
SPEAKER_04Well yeah oh yeah sure sure but you know you just think like wouldn't it be a real shame if this guy kind of had become a Christian and then was just dragged off course by a load of kind of prosperity nonsense and if he's held up as this model Christian and actually he has no connection to the local church he has no connection to church and church discipline and all that that would be that would be a real shame it's just if it's just a celebrity movement.
SPEAKER_07Because I mean I think it's fascinating seeing those interviews with him and you know what he's talking about but I just think like I wonder what it would be like being in a in a Bible study small group with Kenya West. Yeah you know like you know I generally find that fascinating to think like what would it be like to have him there in the room with you and obviously like he's not the centre of that group. You ain't got the answer peezy you ain't got the answer so I think you're finding the first five has the answer actually I got the answer just remember who's God's no I generally think that'd be fascinat you know fascinating and and and I'm kind of looking at the whole thing and I part of me's wondering as well that maybe there are it's the knock-on effects I suppose like you talked about culture but then I think like what about the rest of his family because his family are not known for like a a Christian faith like around him they're known for you know primarily for being the kind of Instagram crowd and money and fame and stuff like that. Yeah. And I just kind of think well how's this all yeah you you wonder what conversations have already gone in in the household and what's what's happening there.
SPEAKER_04Well there is there is already a clip of of him talking to Kim and saying you know I I don't I don't want you to be presenting yourself in a certain way to the world and what about modesty? So you know who knows who knows where this is going. It's interesting isn't it but I I I think even Kanye is thinking about Nebuchadnezzar um which is really interesting because I was thinking about Nebuchadnezzar as well in in terms of here is a guy who is known for his pride who is looked up to all throughout the world and who has this dramatic conversion. And I you know I went back to Daniel 4 uh just this morning to read it again and it's just so relevant. You know uh the chapter begins to the nations and people of every language who live in all the earth may you prosper greatly says King Nebuchadnezzar it is my pleasure to tell you about the miraculous signs and wonders that the Most High God has performed for me. How great are his signs, how mighty his wonders and this is actually in verse. So Nebuchadnezzar is publishing like this lyrics right he's publishing lyrics to the whole world saying his kingdom is an eternal kingdom his dominion Tom Holland hello his dominion Tom Holland and Kanye come together it endures endures from generation to generation and and of of course Nebuchadnezzar then narrates the story of the dream that he has about this big tree that gets cut down by God and Daniel says no you are the tree Nebuchadnezzar you've become great and strong and then you know God says cut him down and then he's drenched with the dew of heaven and he lives with the wild animals until seven times pass by for him. That's what Kanye is referring to as the bipolar thing right he was diagnosed with bipolar I was like well okay maybe maybe he would have got a diagnosis. Sure yeah um and um and all this would happen for seven times maybe that's seven years until he acknowledges that the Most High has dominion over the affairs of men and then his sanity returns to him and then he publishes to the world these lyrics and again Daniel chapter four um finishes um with more lyrics that he publishes to the whole world. At the end of that time I Nebuchadnezzar raised my eyes towards heaven and my sanity was restored you know some of his lyrics in Jesus is king is Jesus you make me sane.
SPEAKER_07Yeah which which I think you know is is you know I said earlier like either he's hugely arrogant or there is he has got some mental health issues. Yeah in which case you know actually he needs help. Yeah um I looked at that lyric and I thought like is there an you know there he's I think he's kind of just saying like yes there are there have been these issues in the past and and stuff. So I think it's good to see how this is you know Jesus has actually been at work in those areas of his life.
SPEAKER_04Right and the the onion thought he was going to get sanity by getting enough affirmation. Yeah picked him up enough but what does Nebuchadnezzar say I raise my eyes towards heaven and my sanity was restored. I love that. And then he publishes these lyrics his dominion is an eternal dominion his kingdom endures from generation to generation all the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth no one can hold back his hand or say to him what have you done which sounds like a lot of the lyrics from Jesus is king and out it goes and then you know there in the ancient world that gets published out to like the four corners of the earth because the most famous man alive he was proud he was humbled he turned his eyes to heaven his sanity was restored and great cultural good came from that one individual conversion. Yeah so where do we line up on the personal versus the cultural well maybe we don't have to maybe you know because of that one person there is great cultural good that can can come out of it.
SPEAKER_07Yeah I wonder like I mean I I what would you want to happen to Kanye like where because obviously this album is is a very exp it's an explicitly Christian album basically you know um I just wonder like where would you like to see him go next? Yeah like in terms of what he does.
SPEAKER_04Well he's g uh he's not into entertainment anymore. He's into preaching the gospel you know and and his next album slated is is going to be Jesus is born Jesus is born a Christmas album. I don't know.
SPEAKER_07I think so my concern is uh and and it's not necessarily to say that if he does this it's wrong. What I would hate to see is is for him to be like just walk away entirely from the the celebrity world because actually like you say I mean he could be a a force. It wouldn't be I mean because he talks a lot he references Instagram a lot quite a lot in a number of the songs it'd be interesting just to see like what it'd be what would it look like to have a guy who is a really going for it Christian. What would his Instagram account look like? How how would it differ from before? What will the rest of his albums look like if they're not you know will they be explicitly Christian or will they be Christian infused? You know what will it look like when he goes on interviews and stuff and I'd hate to see I'd hate to see him just turn away entirely from what he's doing in his his job basically.
SPEAKER_04Yeah um the pastor who was advising him had to say no you can rap because Kanya was saying with that I'm not sure I want to rap anymore.
SPEAKER_07It's one of the old kind of the old 321 material isn't it you say like you know you might become a Christian and you know you might carry on in the same same job unless you're like a bank robber or something which means you've already changed your job. But you know you you you you work at a s you're a teacher in a school you keep being a teacher in a school but now you're a Christian and stuff and I'd love to see him still going on in what he's doing and just see what that looks like. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Because he is such a huge star regardless of whether you like his music and stuff or not I'm not sure there is any other I mean can we think of any other Christians who are that high up the I don't know I was thinking Johnny Cash like before like Johnny Cash in his heyday would would have like a Saturday night you know program in which he'd sing gospel songs at the end of his like he was like the biggest star, the biggest musical star of his day and I but I guess now this is even higher isn't it?
SPEAKER_07Just what we say according to Kanye but just in terms of like the reach that yeah because with with the internet and social media I suppose a figure like Kanye is even more known than someone like Johnny Cash would have been possibly you know possible around the world.
SPEAKER_04Maybe maybe but but maybe our tastes become more fragmented as well. Yeah that's that's true around the around the world.
SPEAKER_07But I mean I think yeah I my thing is despite saying in a sense I'm more interested in the personal side also I am just thinking yeah it'll it'd be a real shame if he just walks away from the public.
SPEAKER_04MC Hammer did. So MC MC Hammer went and just became a Pentecostal preacher and went around the place and yeah I went and saw him in Sydney and uh as a preacher or as a preacher as a preacher they passed they passed around the buckets for for the for the um the the offering and he said uh for five minutes beforehand he said let me hear you say generosity we're like generosity no no let me hear you say generosity generosity you whipped us up into saying generosity and then the buckets went round and gosh believe me I can't believe you even went to see MC Hammers what was he like as a preacher um yeah he had he had dragon energy dragon energy yeah so what's this space what's gonna happen with Kanye we don't know but we we like the fact that people are saying Jesus is king yeah because he kind of is yeah he kind of is scratch that scratch that understatement there he totally is he totally is no let's pray for the man Kanye but let's pray uh that this does great good as the gospel goes out yeah I think so brilliant thanks for all your comments on top chat uh this will be published uh on YouTube and then you can comment uh as per normal on YouTube uh do be subscribing to us on Facebook and uh yeah what else? Uh Instagram Instagram don't give up the gram just yet for good godly content you can use we need you on the gram yeah and if you want to help us with our Christmas films we've got four Christmas films coming for you. We've got a 2D animation a 3D animation a cinematic journey and a musical comedy and uh to make all those four happen we need 10,000 pounds can you go to give.net slash uh Christmas videos let me hear you say generosity generosity we need the Benjamins awesome well that'll do us yeah yeah thank you Paul Feasy thank you Glenn it's been good already thank you everyone would see bye