The Speak Life Podcast, sharing Jesus in everyday life.
SPEAKER_07Social media makes us all into our own press secretaries, managing our own images, making releases, commenting on current events, protecting our brand. And the quickest way to perform your identity is to get outraged and to display the outrage as a sign of your righteousness. All anger is righteous, after all. It's just that most is self-righteous. So let me pick out one story from the last week and show you we were all angry and we were all performing. On February 18th, 2019, Jordan Peterson was speaking in Auckland, New Zealand. Afterwards, he had his photo taken with 150 VIPs who had paid for a few seconds of Meet and Greet with him. Did you catch it? Did you see him? Did you read the t-shirt? Did you understand it? Uh I I don't think Peterson did either. That guy, did you notice the perhaps deliberate misspelling of Islamophobia on his t-shirt? Apparently that's a thing. To be distinguished from Islamophobia. Did you know that? Did you did you do the research? Did you notice the reasons for his objections to Islam? It's because apparently he's against, among other things, misogyny and homophobia and female genital mutilation. The final line of the t-shirt says he wants the right to hate Islam, but not the individual. His t-shirt even had footnotes. Did you consult the footnotes? Now, this is not a t-shirt I would ever wear. It's not something I would recommend anyone else wear ever, but for the last week I've been watching as people have asked, Did you see that t-shirt? Peterson should have noticed that t-shirt, all the while they themselves did not really pay attention to it. This is a familiar scenario. We have an image online, and some people want you to notice just enough of the image to be offended, but not enough to understand. That's social media right there. We say, here, here, look at this. Look at this, isn't it appalling? Isn't it shocking? Do you denounce this? Do you disavow? I need your answer now. But the same social media is not interested in really looking, in asking questions, in getting the context. We want to know just enough to get offended, but not enough to understand. Yeah, I do not like that t-shirt. I don't like the performative anger he is trading in, not one little bit. But if you're going to smear Peterson with being in a photo with that t-shirt, it's incumbent upon you to understand what you're denouncing. So anyway, the photo happens, and no one notices really until four weeks later, a white supremacist kills 50 Muslims in New Zealand. And notice this the racist was performing for an audience, a social media audience of millions. So the man in the t-shirt was performing, the terrorist was performing, and the rest of social media went to work performing too. Whitcools, New Zealand's largest bookseller, pulls Jordan Peterson's book, Twelve Rules for Life, off the shelves, saying it's in the light of some extremely disturbing material being circulated prior, during, and after the Christchurch attacks. They mean the photo. So they pull the book and continue to sell Mein Kampf. True story. They continue. As a business which takes our responsibility to our communities very seriously, we believe it would be wrong to support the author at this time. They are performing. But it's not just them. The faculty of Divinity at Cambridge University decided to use this moment to rescind an invitation to Peterson and to do so via Twitter. In fact, the Cambridge Student Union broke the news on Twitter first, three hours before the Divinity faculty. The Student Union said with great relief, Jordan Peterson's views are not representative of the student body, and as such, we don't see his visit as a valuable contribution to the university. I mean, God forbid that they hear from a teacher who does not represent their already impeccable views. But it's performance. Performance by the Student Union, performance by the faculty of divinity, who did not tweet the offer of the fellowship, but they did make much of their virtuous rescinding. And then the performances continued with a response from Peterson calling the publicizing of the rescindment narcissistic, self-congratulatory, and devious. He spoke about their propaganda addled souls and called them cowards and mountbanks. He said of the faculty, I wish them the continued decline in relevance over the next few decades that they deeply deserve and profoundly and diligently work towards and deserve. Now I get the anger. So much of it is justified, but I also know Cambridge people, impressive theologians, who have offered Peterson precisely what he was seeking from the faculty, an opportunity to study Exodus with the best and brightest that Biblical studies has to offer. But after Peterson's blog post, it would be an almost impossible climb down for him now to accept such offers. I get that Peterson has been a victim of many angry posts written by others. But I fear he will be a victim of his own anger too. One of the secrets to his success online has been the channeling of his anger, very often righteously directed. But if we've learnt anything from the New Testament, then let's hear the book of James. My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this. Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry, because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. That link between anger and righteousness is interesting. All anger is righteous. It comes from a desire for justice. All anger is righteous, it's just that far too much of it is self-righteous. And in this online age, it's easy to become performative. From the t-shirt to the celebrity photo opportunity to its weaponization online to the book withdrawn to Cambridge University's tweet, to Jordan Peterson's response, we are all angry, we're all performing, and social media is supercharging this outrage machine. But anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. So, my dear brothers and sisters, take note of this. Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry. I'm Glenn Scrivener, this is Speak Life, and you're watching the live cast.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, it's I was gonna say it's a sad day, but I mean really we can't wait to be out of here. Nobody really likes the colour or even cut would you describe it? Is it kind of turquoise is it? Yes, blue powder blue bluey. Powder blue, it's it's not very nice, is it? Yeah. So yeah, soon, as of Monday, we have a a new bit of building work going on, and this room will no longer exist.
SPEAKER_07Basically, every single wall is gonna be hacked through, and the back half of our offices, which is was an old Brethren church, but the back half of our offices will be entirely devoted to studio space. So hopefully we'll have at the end of this process a really nice studio.
SPEAKER_06Yep. Hopefully it will just make our life a bit easier and we'll be able to make some good good bits with it. And we're particularly looking forward to September time with the interns coming on board and having a bigger team. Hopefully, all these things together will just mean that we'll be able to push out more stuff um more quickly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And so the live cast uh shot on uh proper cameras rather than the webcams that we've got here. Yeah, uh so you'll be able to see us in HD.
SPEAKER_06We might even have a proper set, something to actually sit on rather than just sitting here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We should we should get people because we're still wondering really what we should. Right. What should the set be? What should the set be?
SPEAKER_07Where should we be? Where should the fern be placed? Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Somewhere. Are we in deck chairs on a Hawaiian beach? We could be thing, you know. We totally could be.
SPEAKER_07Or we could look, you know, really grown up with newspapers on the coffee table. Oh, yeah, the broadsheets. Yes. And then the theme music. Digga diggadin, digga digging, digga digga digga diggain. And then we shuffle our pages. It's all possible. Um so stick with us. Uh really interesting times are ahead. Yeah. Especially with the with the interns. I mean, I did a cal calculation the other day that uh if we have, let's say, three interns and that's looking quite likely, then um uh we would be able to, I think, triple our output um in terms of Dan Rackham being able to give uh half a week, you giving half a week, me giving half a week, the interns giving half a week. I think uh yeah, cool cool things are uh are are coming. So stay tuned to speak life.
SPEAKER_06I think it would also drastically reduce my blood pressure levels during the live cast as I'm frantically trying to queue up this, cue up that, hit the right thing, not hit the wrong thing. Right. Cut something off in the middle that I can't then get back. Yes.
SPEAKER_07Yes, we need to we need to separate Paul the producer from Paul the presenter. That would be important. So, yes, so our opening monologue uh was all about just one story. You could pick almost any story on any day, and it sort of has this theme to it. Um there is something that happens, and then there's an outrage machine that's called social media that kind of kicks in. And it and it is particularly sensitive to the emotion of outrage, anger. Um, and it's the quickest way that you can virtue signal, you know, it's the quickest way that you can signal to everybody else. You're on the right side of history, you have the right views, and you're dead against this guy here. Um and it that that story just snowballed, really, the Peterson one. Did you follow any of it?
SPEAKER_06They Yeah, I picked it up a little bit through like seeing a post about I think it was what something you tweeted and then someone's response to that, and then um, you know, you kind of just saw how it went on. But you know, we were talking earlier and saying, you know, you said what are what you asked me what I thought about all this stuff, and my answer was just Yeah. Like so I mean I could I I I don't know if I'm in a minority, but I just see these things and and I think, yeah, of course everybody's doing it for a performance. Right. You know? Yeah. And so like so I would say I for a long time so I still use Facebook like quite a lot, like every day, basically. Um but I don't post a huge amount. I mostly I might I use it for business and I share memes because that's how I communicate my emotions to the world. Um But I generally hit a point where I was just like, why am I posting anything about you know like like why do you know even if I go somewhere nice, why do I need to post a photo about I don't know why why does anyone actually care? Right. Because there's a lot of people believe me who I'm friends with and they're posting stuff and I think I don't care. I'll be honest. I'm like, I don't care what you have for breakfast.
SPEAKER_07It's different though, like like because Facebook has become a much more public-facing thing rather than it's not like a WhatsApp group. Like you would share photos to a WhatsApp group, wouldn't you? In terms of your holiday, wouldn't you? Well Come on, have a heart, man.
SPEAKER_06Come on. I might. I don't know. I I mean I might yeah, I mean I might share photos with my parents and be like some photos of the kids and like you know, this is what we're doing or whatever. Yeah. Um I might tag them in some photos on Facebook if I was doing that, but yeah. But just the day-to-day life stuff. No, sure. But so it's but I was saying on a kind of much more serious note, like what do you like like the other week, I I mean I generally when I see things I think why I don't know what to post. You know, so I sort like the Christchurch stuff. Right. When obviously this terrible tragedy is happening, and you think like or I think to myself, like, should I post something? Because I'm genuinely looking at this and I'm horrified by it, and you feel like you want to say something, but then there's part of my head going like but does anyone in like why am I it whatever I say will seem really twity, yes, like and trite, like you know, like just you know, thoughts and prayers, and there's nothing wrong with thoughts and prayers, but you know, it's just it just seems it's easy for everybody to to say like, oh, isn't it terrible that something's happening anyway? You know, it doesn't have to be that situation, any situation, without actually making any difference at all. And I remember I once got really called out for like because it was a while ago, it was it was years ago now, it was I think it was for the NSPCC. It was like change your profile picture to a cartoon character from your childhood or something. Right. Um and I basically made a post, I I said I I posted and said something like Um My suspicion was lots of people change their things and they don't give any money to the cause, and basically it doesn't make any difference whatsoever. And loads of people really got on my back about it and were like, Oh, I gave some money. And I still suspect though they're in the minority. I suspect a lot of people just it's like when you put like a filter over your profile picture of like you know, a French flag after there's you know some things that have gone on, you know. And and I could I think to myself, I could do that, but like why am I doing it?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, and it's become so caught up in the virtue signalling thing. So even if only five percent of posts are kind of virtue virtue signalling, the other 95%, let's be generous, that you know, the other 95% aren't virtue signalling, and of course everybody is virtue signalling all the time. It's kind of one of the big teachings of the Bible. But exactly self-righteousness, self-justification is just hardwired into the human soul. But even if it's just entirely from the overflow of the heart and your your heart goes out and you want to express something, it just becomes tainted by the rest of the whole virtue signalling thing.
SPEAKER_06Absolutely. But then there's so so then I'm sitting there going, Well, I won't post anything, but then as we were talking about earlier, it's like you're saying something by not saying something, you know. And then I think I I think I'm just neurotic, basically. Like they're going, if I don't post anything, what people might think he's not posted anything, he clearly doesn't care. And then I'm like, Yeah, to be honest, does anybody really care what I'm posting anyway? Like, yeah, why why would I think I was important enough for anyone to notice? Yeah, you know, I was on a go to counselling now, right?
SPEAKER_07This is what social media is doing for us. Um and in a minute we're gonna um have a look at some some clips from Alistair Roberts. So I I interviewed Alistair Roberts yesterday, uh, who um is just uh an incredible mind and and uh thinks very deeply about technology and social media issues, and we had a wide-ranging discussion about all these things. We're gonna post the whole interview on Monday night. Um uh but we've got some clips for you here uh um today. But uh just this week in a private Facebook group, somebody said, quickly, um, can you count up all the evangelicals you know who have posted something about Christchurch and have offered thoughts and prayers? Um and I I sort of said, Why? Um, you know, I mean my first reaction was, oh yeah, there's this person, this person, this person, this person. But then I kind of stopped myself and said, Oh, uh why? Why do you want that? And he said, Well, I I'm in a discussion with someone from a different theological stream, and they reckon that evangelicals don't care about the Muslim community. And I want to be able to say, no, there are all these expressions of of thoughts and prayers. And it just becomes this kind of crass calculus of you know weighing up Facebook posts.
SPEAKER_06Not only is it crass that you have to kind of compile your list and be that, but I mean the person who is there going the also the person who's saying evangelicals don't care about the Muslim community. I kind of look at that and say, well, to be honest, it doesn't seem like you care, or it seems you you're using this tragedy just to get one over on some theological opponent that you've got.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_06I mean, which is equally as crash and you know ridiculous.
SPEAKER_07And we just don't know what's going on in the lives of anyone offline. You know, uh all all you see is Facebook posts, and then that is a very, very small you know, proportion of your life. Well, for some people. Right.
SPEAKER_06I mean, you know, yeah. There's a few people a little in the overshare, you know.
SPEAKER_07Like But you know, we've we we've just had a sanctuary cafe for refugees in this in this town, and and this is the first time we've mentioned it on on you know online. And you know, and yet you know the majority of people coming to use this service would be Muslim, and and and yet, you know, I don't feel like posting that.
SPEAKER_06I don't feel like we're you know, we're not we're not we're s we're not really supposed to do our good deeds to be seen before others. I've read that somewhere. You know, I'm s yeah, I think I've read that. Um so there's that thing, isn't it? You're you know, when people are saying I I preached on that passage. I think I think it's on the Speak Life YouTube channel, actually. Yeah. Um but I talk about how I just don't believe, and maybe this controversial, and it was for a few people at church, I didn't believe there was such a thing as an altruistic act. Like I I said everybody's motivations somewhere deep down are selfish. So some people do things deliberately to be seen by others to virtue signal, which is what the Pharisees were basically doing. It was a religious virtue signalling of the day. Yeah. I said, but I said, even in I said, and I use the example, I said, you know Maybe you're at a party and you know you're you've you've conversations finished and you're kind of just by yourself for a second, and you and you look around and you see there's lots of glasses, and you think to yourself, I could be helpful here. And you and your and your motivation at that point is is just I want to be helpful. And so without being asked, without drawing attention to yourself, you kind of go around and start collecting out some glasses, you know. But there's this bit of it, isn't there, that as you do that, as you turn to go to the kitchen, you kind of just have a quick glance. Has anybody noticed? Has anybody noticed like you know, you know, Paul's done that. He wasn't even asked, you know. Or even things where and and I said as well, you know, there's stuff I do, and I think to myself, um, nobody will ever know I've done that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think to myself, go me. Yeah, like pat on the back, like how and I'm not congratulating myself.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06You know, so my mo your motives are always kind of I think by the flesh we can say that.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, everyone. Absolutely, that's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. I think you know, supernaturally, by the spirit, we can overflow, and our right hand can give and our left hand doesn't even know about it. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, that's the exception. That's that's the supernatural thing, the natural thing.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and I mean I the because I use an example, I think, of like when you see the celebrity with the big check for the charity. And I just think like it's great that they've given all that money, but but who are they they're partly it feels at least like they're helping themselves. Like here I am being photographed with my big amount of money I've given, how good am I? And I'm just like, why do you need to be seen to be giving that?
SPEAKER_07Anyway, we're slightly. Well, yeah, so Matthew six is what we're talking about, you know, and and I I love, you know, Jesus kind of goes right to the heart of all really all religions talk about giving, they talk about prayer, they talk about fasting. And and Jesus says, Okay, um, chapter six, verse one, Matthew six, verse one. Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your father in heaven. So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets as the hypocrites do in the synagogues. I've taken that to heart because I think if you look at me, um you'd never think I was righteous. Then your father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. And then he talks about prayer. When you pray, don't be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray, standing in the synagogues. I love it, they love to pray, standing in the synagogues, to be seen by others. But your father knows what you need before you ask him. And then with fasting, um, verse 16 when you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces. Imagine that. Imagine actually physically disfiguring your face so that everyone knows that you're fasting. Um Truly I tell you, they've received their reward in full, but your father who sees what is done in secret, he will reward you.
SPEAKER_06The thing I said about those verses, and this is what makes social media very difficult as well, and e even away from social media, is that um you can be doing these things to be seen by others, or you could be doing them out of a good mode. So let's take Christchurch, you could be genuinely moved and grieved by it and uh feel you need to say something. And then there could be someone else who just feels they need to say something to be seen saying saying something. But the problem is on the surface, there's just you you can't tell the difference. No, it all looks the same, pretty much. Exactly.
SPEAKER_07That's what I was thinking about the private group, because all of a sudden, all those friends of mine who had said something, I I felt that they'd said it genuinely, but it had suddenly become sullied by this person who wanted to add it all up and and make a point with it. And it's just yeah, there's there's just so much virtue signalling, so much self-righteousness going on, and I guess with social media, the the easiest uh in fact, kind of the the only thing you can do to kind of express yourself is express your views, really. I mean you you can talk about what you've done and people can do that, but but it does tend to be your views on things. Yep. And so you feel not only the pressure to post something, because you don't want to be the person who didn't, you know, who doesn't care about Christchurch, you know, but you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um but then you're in the position, okay, what do I now say? Because we're in such a a supercharged atmosphere where if I say the wrong thing.
SPEAKER_06Well, exactly, and that's so I mean that was another thing that happened the other week. I mean, I I was talking about it, I think my mother-in-law was talking about it. I don't know all the details, but it was to do with Diane Abbott, and and there was another MP who'd stepped in to defend her, and I think she'd said she'd referred to Diane Abbott as being coloured. And then loads of people jumped on her back because they were saying she's not coloured, she's black, and she was like, Well, hang on a second, I was defending her, I was helping her out here, and and you're just like, you know, you know, shooting your own team almost.
SPEAKER_07Because apparently, person of colour, fine. Coloured person.
SPEAKER_06Well, we were having this discussion the other day, actually. Can we edit that?
SPEAKER_07We can't edit that. It's too late, it's out there.
SPEAKER_06Well, I was having that discussion the other day and saying, like, you know, as a as a as a a kind of teenager, it was very much the case you you you shouldn't say coloured. Right. Because we're all we're all coloured. Yeah. You know? Um so you know black people, white people. Basically, fair enough. And then recently it has become POC, people of you know, person of colour, people of colour. But even I hadn't quite twigged it, you couldn't say coloured, you can only say person of colour. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07I can't keep up.
SPEAKER_06Well exactly.
SPEAKER_07You know, and and and so much of it is down to well how much are you willing to cut the person some slack? How much are you willing to interpret their words the mo in the most charitable light? And how much do you actually want to to pounce and deride and denounce and smear. Because that's it's a it's a quick gain, right? That's the bigot over there. And who's with me? And where's my Twitch fork mob? And away we go. One of the things that we've um uh thought about especially in the last couple of days um is this this issue of huge if true online and and I see it all the time there there's a story and no one's quite assessed the you know the full details of it but if it happens to be true it's huge right um to use a Donald Trumpism. Um and uh and we we live in a in an age of huge if true and it's the huge bit that we are most interested in and the if true can kind of take behind most really. And if one thing kind of epitomizes that it's Robert Mueller's investigation uh into the Trump administration and whether they colluded with the Russians in order to hack the 2016 election. And for 22 months that investigation has been going on um and it would be huge if true um but then what do you do with that? Do you jump the gun and basically say Trump is going to be impeached definitely um and is that the story?
SPEAKER_01Certainly that's that's the line that a lot of people went down and so we've got a um a montage of uh lots of people kind of jumping the gun on the Muller uh investigation let's have a look at that indictments in this president's future that's a bombshell the bombshell this bombshell drop the bombshell bombshell accusation bombshell accusation and at that point we are in high crimes and misdemeanor and we are in impeachment this president needs to be impeached impeachment is the remedy. I mean the president can't the only remedy there's outright treason I mean there is no question I think he's feeling the noose around his neck the the noose is tightening and I think they're shocked that the noose is tightening he may be the first president uh in quite some time to face the real prospect of jail time. Well I think they're all gonna end up together in prison and maybe that's a common so yeah so jump in the gun.
SPEAKER_07Yep and that's been going on for 22 months and then uh the Attorney General's report on the Mueller investigation was released yesterday and uh on the question did Trump conspire with Russia to hack the elections the answer was no on the question did the president obstruct justice the answer was insufficient evidence. But for two years we've heard people kind of yeah jumping the gun on on those conclusions and it strikes me that that doesn't really help your cause because now people are saying that this has been like the greatest moment of the Trump presidency. Yeah um he's not a traitor you know which is a fairly low bar for greatest success.
SPEAKER_06I mean that would be a good start yeah for someone you know like don't be a traitor.
SPEAKER_07Yeah but a pinnac as the pinnacle as the pinnacle and I and it's not the pinnacle of his of his presidency but but when people start saying it's the best day for him because he's not actually a traitor um it's it's all the fault of those who are kind of piling on in advance and jumping the gun and saying huge it's true and it probably is true. That's the it's their fault. You know that this is now such a you know a great day for him. But you know that that whole you know that whole movement was sort of the mirror image of the lock her up movement about Hillary, you know, during the 2016 presidential campaign. And we just got both sides just jumping to conclusions and handling the huge if true moment um not optimally shall we say um so I I just thought um I would talk to Alistair Roberts a little bit about some of this huge if true stuff and uh and get some of his reflection reflections on that. Like I say we'll show the entire uh interview with Alistair Roberts uh next Monday night. Um but in this uh portion of the interview with Alistair I just ask him uh uh about what we do with something like the Mueller investigation what do we do uh when the facts aren't yet in and uh the scandal is just in the air let's see what he says for two years we've had we've had a a kind of a huge if true situation um and on the narrow issue of did Trump conspire with the Russians uh the answer seems to be no um but I just uh I wonder if we have handled that issue on on social media um correctly um or whether that's going to put things to bed do you have any do you have any hope that uh you know this this investigation will put that question to bed oh it's not gonna put that question to bed I think when we're looking particularly someone like President Trump he is he is the first president to really be that active on Twitter and his activity on Twitter also leads to questions of where does the pres the word of the president end and the world the word of Donald Trump begin.
SPEAKER_03And when is he speaking in his professional capacity when not that's also a problem for many pastors because pastors and church leaders online it's very difficult to discern where the bounds are and in the past you'd have formal public official speech would be the sort of speech that you engage in from a pulpit. But now the sorts of speech that we're engaging on Twitter I can reach hundreds of thousands of people on Twitter and I can say something that spreads out that multitude without necessarily taking the sort of responsibility that I would do if I was standing up in a pulpit. Now that I think leads to the way that we handle these issues that we don't have a sense of responsibility and so we easily spread things as a sort of there's little friction um whereas if you have a more authoritative structure there is friction because there's responsibility and accountability if you say the wrong thing you will be held accountable you'll be able you might lose your job or something like that. That's not quite the same online where you can spread a rumor you can spread um some conspiracy theory whatever it is and not actually face consequences for that. So when social media has become our primary conduit for news it makes a situation that is just right for these sorts of theories to spread without any sort of testing first. And the speed of it as well that in the past for instance if the Prime Minister had to cast judgment on a particular issue they'd often have days to do so. Something would happen on the other side of the world and the news would take over a month to reach us and now they'll have to answer first thing in the morning. They may not even have time to get dressed before they're expected to have a formulated opinion on a matter and it's on the same on Twitter.
SPEAKER_07It's just not a healthy situation just not a healthy situation Yeah I thought it was really striking the way you know it's very easy to talk about Trump and his Twitter usage but instantly Alistair was all into well what about us? And what about church leaders who you know you you can't really you don't really know where the pastor ends and the private individual with an opinion about Brexit begins.
SPEAKER_06Sure. And I mean having like in you don't have to be a pastor just working for a church I think was was one even for me so I would I as a youth worker I would I I've often said like not necessarily on Facebook but I did talk about Facebook but even just going to church like imagine you're n you're on the youth worker and you're going to a service it's not anything to do with your youth work. Reality is you're still on duty.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Like there is no end.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_06I mean wha whatever you want to say is you you can't switch off. Like if someone comes up to you and says I'm gonna ask you something you can't just say sorry I'm not on duty right now. Yeah. You know um well there are people who do that. I'm sure there are victors but um yeah but you do you kind of have to accept that there is no end. There's this continual blurring between you have a role. You have a role you're always in that role even if you're just sitting at home on Facebook at like 11 o'clock in the evening that's it you're still posting me as the Reverend Blend Scrivener.
SPEAKER_07Like the first I remember the first Sunday at All Souls Church Eastbourne where where I'm you know I still go but I'm not on staff but it was the first day on staff and the first Sunday and went afterwards and and uh after the evening service we went to this guy's house and we're just all having a conversation about and Darren Brown came out came up and there was like a show that would that had just been on and I just I just wouldn't that be great we pray for that we're easy bring him back to church he was he did go to church for many years. But um and I just said something about Darren Brown and I get I just sensed the whole room going oh so that's that's what the clergy think about Darren Brown. I was like no no I'm just speaking I'm speaking ex cathedra I'm not my views and not mine of my employers it's like I'm just having an opinion about some guy on TV but oh you just get that sense that people and but it's true and and when people you know read my Twitter accounts they're you know um yeah it shouldn't just be frivolity. That's that's what my other Twitter account is for called scrivolity.
SPEAKER_06But uh I re I just rest safe in the knowledge no one is reading my Twitter account.
SPEAKER_07You never know you never know.
SPEAKER_05When they ask you to present the Oscars they'll go back they'll go through it with a fine tooth comb.
SPEAKER_07Yeah yeah yeah. And so and Alistair talked about the speed issue as well with social media just speeds everything up and you know and it's a quote from before the internet age but you know a lie travels around the globe while the truth is still getting its shoes on. But how much more is that the case you know in the social media age.
SPEAKER_06Well what do you not I mean the th I've thought about this a few times you don't you never hear someone like you know who gets stopped in the street. Or you don't hear you don't really hear people in just saying you know what I don't really know what I think about that right now. I need to think about it a bit more. Yes yeah it's like particularly if you are a public figure. Right. Because if you've if you've said that then you know they'll be publicly crucified you know wouldn't wouldn't give a comment on this you know yeah yeah you know yeah I think you know we we want to it's good to take stock sometimes isn't it and stop and say I need to think about that a bit more and that's what we're saying about the Mueller investigation you know may maybe a a a lot more journalists in fact you know all of them should have said well let's wait for the facts to come in.
SPEAKER_07You know? And if true it is huge. Bang, right and if not then you know let's not waste twenty-two months um stirring up and precipitating a scandal um if we don't know that know that it's true. But if that's true for them professionally how much more should it be true for for us personally. But you know I d we are asked to make opinions and and have judgments about things all the time. I I I I watched um uh Leaving Neverland recently so allegations of of uh two men in particular who claim that Michael Jackson sexually abused them when they w they were children and the whole program is wanting you to make you know a verdict about these things. And again we to we talked I I talked to uh Alistair Roberts about that and he's got some great wisdom on it so do do tune in on on on Monday but um yeah it's it's very good not to rush to snap judgments um un unless you've investigated.
SPEAKER_06If you've investigated okay sure and and I mean actually we just watched the Madeline McCann disappearance of Madeline McCann documentary on Netflix and you know it's quite a long thing it's ten episodes I think it was about an hour long each so it's quite an in-depth thing. And you know and and my wife had started watching it before me she was a couple of episodes in and I and I watched one and missed one and came back you know and whatnot and she obviously she didn't seem to know like much about the case. I think I knew a bit more about it than her because at what at at one point I said oh well you know a lot of people think the parents did it because they found blood in the car and stuff and that hadn't come up in the documentary yet that was like a couple of episodes and I was like yeah and there was all this stuff about that and it was really weird and quite suspicious and yada yada yada and then it got to that episode and I kind of sat through it and watched it and like you just see how it's complete nonsense. Like the car um it was like they had some dogs you know that sniff for stuff you know blood and bodies and things in the the car was rented like 25 days after she went missing and um the DNA stuff was completely inconclusive they said it could have come from any family member possibly a mixture of the family members there. You know there was literally no way they could tie it and say it was this person and not you know it was Madeline and not anyone else. Yeah. And so it was completely debunked like thoroughly debunked. And yet still I went on Facebook and someone had posted something about like a meme you know or something there was there was something going round about Madeline McCann and you go in the comments and someone's just saying here's what they did. I reckon they killed her earlier in the day they put her in the car they drove yada yada yada and you're going hang on they didn't even have the car you know though and stuff like that and people just have have got this thing in their minds and like oh they did it. Man and this is it. And you've imagine if it happens in a Twitter because it happened in 2007 Yeah yeah 2007 it was yeah and then it was that or eight yeah but then you know and also one of the the police officers who was I mean you you really got us the idea of how horrific the Portuguese police had been in their investig investigation. I mean just such poor levels of investigation but there was a blitz a British police officer and he was just saying like you know he's dealt with lots of stuff like this he said if people have done this kind of crime he said the last thing you want is to keep drawing attention to your situation. You want this thing to blow over and get back to your life so you can hide away and he said these guys were constantly just even now you know twelve years down the road. Absolutely yeah um yeah and you're sitting there as a parent as well going like you know watching this and thinking what must they have been going through but everybody have made their people have made their conclusions and I was just thinking there was a guy on it in the very last episode he's talking about he was from an American organization that find missing children and exploited children and he was talking about people who've been found after like 23 years that was the kind of the longest one or you know 12 years 10 years four years and they've come back and I was just thinking like I wonder what will happen. If she if she ever does resurface I wonder if those people will turn around and say oh I was wrong like it wasn't the parents you know I reckon there's gonna be a lot of silence yeah on uh Facebook and Twitter at that stage. Yeah. Whereas at the moment everybody's got something to say.
SPEAKER_07Yeah and we we should say I don't know I don't know wait and see. I don't know and maybe we'll never know on that one. Yeah but I do think it would have been I I dread to think like if it actually happened now you know in 2019. And and and there are abductions that happen you know every year but that's such a high profile case with people just you know are you with us or are you against us? And that's that's where things start to polarise online and you feel like you need to pick a side and yeah yeah um in this second clip with Alistair Roberts I I uh talked to him about how we've gotten to this state and what is it about social media that does kind of supercharge our need for self-justification and anger. Let's have a look at that.
SPEAKER_03Whereas increasingly we're defined by a projected image that we are giving of ourselves online. And when we project that image we can feel very threatened if people push against that and I've talked about virtue signaling in the past people often talk about virtue signaling as if it's something only a small group of people do. But online we're all virtue haven't they read anything by Jesus? We're all actually projecting some sort of image of ourselves saying this is who I am this is my profile this is and that makes things very difficult. It means that if you challenge someone online often you are seen to be challenging not just their ideas but their identity because what you say is not just a statement about what you believe it's also a statement about who you are to a degree that it isn't when you're talking to someone in day-to-day life where you have a clearer sense of the values the form of life the context the community that surrounds them and all these different sorts of belonging that give them a clearer sense of identity without that you're defined entirely by what you say.
SPEAKER_07Yes and and therefore your identity is tied very much to your views and therefore you have to say the right thing and saying the right thing capital R, capital T is is absolutely paramount.
SPEAKER_03You're branding your own identity and you're creating your own brand and if you say the wrong thing you have to engage in some sort of um PR relation relations management and um public relations management or you need to um negoti see the right sort of apology whatever it is it just is not a healthy situation. Whereas in actual day-to-day life it's worth thinking about what things we don't see online. You don't see the way that people relate to their neighbours you don't see the sort of charitable work that people do.
SPEAKER_07You don't see a lot of forms of social need online you don't see disability for the most part online you don't see age online you don't see poverty for the most part online and in all these different ways we become closed in upon ourselves from Alistair Roberts and uh do stay tuned for uh that interview with him about 45 minutes and uh it's yeah so it's gonna be good it just seems so relevant to you yeah today yeah yeah he was an early adopter in every form of social media he's got a really interesting story so uh yeah he tells uh some of that story and then on Bebo he was I don't know we didn't speak about Bebo fighting for his top MySpace places he made me so nostalgic for bob blogging he's just like remember blogging back when like it wasn't supercharged by social media it's all vlogging now isn't it just oh man it's all it's all this kind of nonsense.
SPEAKER_06So yeah check it out on Monday night can't wait to share it with you guys but uh last night's uh Monday night video was uh Paul Feasy a uh young fresh faced preacher from Crowbra So fresh so face um and uh you are preaching on Revelation 4 yeah Revelation 4 yeah as part of a a series I'm really pleased actually because I I've I've bemoaned often uh not just not just my own church but so many churches say we're gonna do the book of Revelation and what they mean is we're gonna do the seven churches and then stop and um we might might look at the last chapter of the Bible about chapter twenty one or twenty two if we get lucky. Yeah. And actually we're carrying on which is great so I was quite excited to be very doing it and for the church to be doing it.
SPEAKER_07Very good let's uh let's let's read it. Let's read it. Revelation chapter four the throne in heaven after this I looked and there before me was a door standing open in heaven and the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said Come up here and I will show you what must take place after this. At once I was in the spirit and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it. And the one who sat there had the appearance of Jasper and Ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald encircled the throne. Surrounding the throne were twenty four other thrones and seated on them were twenty four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads from the throne came flashes of lightning rumblings and peals of thunder. In front of the throne seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God. Also in front of the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass clear as crystal. In the centre around the throne were four living creatures and they were covered with eyes in front and in back the first living creature was like a lion the second was like an ox the third had a face of a man the fourth was like a flying eagle. Each of the four living creatures had seven wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come. Whenever the living creatures give glory, honour and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, the twenty four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever they lay their crowns before the throne and say you are worthy our Lord and God to receive glory and honour and power for you created all things and by your will they were created and have their being So it must have been a great joy to prepare from these eleven verses. What kind of struck you most as you were you were preparing?
SPEAKER_06Well the biggest thing straight away was this idea of the throne 'cause I think it crops up I think it crops up thirteen times the word throne and then it's about five more times on into chapter five. And so anytime you see something repeated as much as that in the Bible you're thinking right there's definitely some emphasis here. Yeah. So that leapt out um particularly straight away and then over time it was just trying to get my head round because I I said to someone else, so I'm doing this passage and and in my head I had this thing about the throne and God being in control. Um before I'd really put much thought into it. And someone else I said I said I'm doing this passage, and I went, Oh yeah, well, you know, it's just about worship, isn't it? And then I was like, Oh, is it about worship?
SPEAKER_05I was like, hmm, hmm.
SPEAKER_06And of course you've got the creatures and the elders worshipping, and I'm trying to think so f so for me, I mean, in terms of the way I preach, um you'll never hear me preach a three-point sermon with kind of three headings. Excellent. Um if that's your style, that's absolutely fine, but it's not mine. So I'm very much of the opinion that when I preach I have one point, and it may be that there are these kind of three things, or maybe more or less, but I think it was Michael Wilcock when he was at the m ministry training course here in Sussex, kind of said it's a bit like preaching is a bit like you're baking a cake or something, you know, you've got all the ingredients. Um and I kind of feel that like your three points are like your ingredients, but for goodness sake, make me the cake at the end, you know. And and often it can feel like you've got these three headings which are kind of and they're vaguely tied together, but for me, if I've got three if I do get like three kind of sections or headings, I then want to work out how can I make one sentence out of these, which isn't you know, a hundred words long, but how do I sum this up in the simplest possible form? Um, I'm of the opinion that generally people only really take away one big idea. If that boys are. Well, exactly. Um I like to go down that road. It might yeah, you might build towards it with some kind of here are some ideas, but let's you've got to bring it together. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07It's gotta be one thing and and and you know, maybe there's a three-in-one-ness going on here. Maybe maybe we can't con maybe we cannot conceive of the threeness without bringing being brought to the unity. I mean, it is like a you know, your your your most boiled down sentence is subject, object, verb, right? Right. So there are kind of three elements to to the most basic sentence that you can come up with. So you know maybe maybe the people who are the three pointers the what they lose often can be that unifying one what's your one sentence.
SPEAKER_06Um I mean the because cause actually what I come what I end up doing, and it's just the way I was taught to do things, um is actually you you end up with kind of three sentences. So the th the first thing is always working out what's the main point, and that's your big sent you know your sentence you know, this is what it is. Um and then from that one sentence you're kind of working out what your intro will be. So you're coming up with another sentence which was called the empathy section. Okay so you're starting you're always kicking off your talk with empathy. Right. So you're you're kind of saying you you're looking you need to relate something that's related to the main point that maybe the main point answers or addresses. So you kind of set up this kind of don't we all feel like this? Haven't we all experienced this? Or here's this question, you know, um isn't this the case? And then you're showing how that this passage then answers this reality of our lives. Um and I think I've been doing that for years anyway, but then it was in Tim Hawkins. Tim Hawkins Messages That Move, he talks about the idea of like you when you're preaching, you're like a train driver, and basically you you can't just get the train to the destination, you can't just have the main point because if you've left everybody at the station and people didn't bother to get on the train to come with you, you've wasted your time. So at the beginning of the talk, you have to say to people, This is why it's worth listening to what I'm about to say to you. Because I'm gonna answer this thing. This is relevant to your life, so you're kind of setting that up. And so I'm a big again, I I was gonna say I hate as a strong word. Um, I really I I I I dislike the sermons that begin with um when they say today we're gonna see how yadda yadda yadda and they basically tell you what the main point is at the beginning. Right, and I punchline first. Punchline first, and I say, There's no point in me even listening now. I know that's that's not quite what I think, but you think but the guy who was te when he was teaching about preaching, he was very much saying like it is like telling a joke, and you want people to be waiting for what's the answer. You've set up this thing, tell me I need the answer for this in my life, you know. Yeah, and if you just throw it at them straight away, people go, Okay, yeah, great. Yeah. And yeah, so you want people kind of hanging on what you're saying. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um I think we're both similar in that we uh have a low tolerance for people who who are not grabbing our attention. I think that would be true.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I mean, I always think the worst thing you I I mean, I would always be devastated if if I felt that I'd done a talk that was just boring. Boring. Yeah. Like it's inexcusable in my mind to be boring when you get up and preach. Yes. And that doesn't mean you have to be all singing, all dancing.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Um I think because I desperately want someone to grab me when I get into the pulpit, that's desperately what I want to do. You know, I desperately want to grab people and get them aboard the train, you know.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and how many times have we, you know, we we've probably all had those moments where we felt like the preacher was speaking to us, like they've grounded it so clearly in our lives. Yeah. You go, right, I've got to pay attention. Yeah. Yeah. Um Well, you've set the bar very high now, Paul.
SPEAKER_07Um, because we're all gonna watch we're all gonna watch your sermon.
SPEAKER_06And if you get distracted even for a moment, this is just a conclusion, so you won't have got on the train yet. So you know this is like watching the train go through the station.
SPEAKER_07But if people want to check out the whole sermon, it was uh posted last night on uh YouTube, it'll be posted tonight on Facebook. But let's I what I r what I really loved was the way you um you got to the station. And what I want to see now is your conclusion and then uh ask you a question about why you concluded a sermon on Revelation 4 like this.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_06People have sometimes summed up the whole book of Revelation with just two words. Jesus wins. And the ESV study guide, study Bible, really helpfully starts every book with a kind of explanation of some of the themes and ideas. And it says this about Revelation, I just thought it was so helpful. Revelation unveils the unseen spiritual war in which the church is engaged, the cosmic conflict between God and his Christ on the one hand, and Satan and his evil allies on the other. In this conflict, Jesus the Lamb has already won the decisive victory through his sacrificial death. But his church continues to be assaulted by the dragon in its death throes through persecution, false teaching, and the allure of material affluence and cultural approval. So Jesus wins. Jesus has decisively won the war. He came to earth and he took on every enemy on the battlefield and he beat them. He came up against temptation and he beat it. He came up against sickness and he beat it. He came up against the forces of evil and he cast them out. He came up against the chaotic forces of nature and he calmed them with a word. And then on good from running, it looked like he'd been defeated. It looked like death had claimed him the final enemy. But then three days later, he rose to life. Death couldn't hold him down, and he broke Satan's power. So Satan struck at his heel, but Christ delivered that killing blow to the head. And so the war is won. The war is won, but the defeated enemy is going to keep fighting battles to the end. Satan is in his death roes, but a creature that's in its death roes can still do a lot of damage. And if you get close enough, you can get mortally wounded. And that's what Satan wants. He wants to take as much of this world and as much of this church with him as possible. And so John says in this passage, and actually all through Revelation, see reality. Who's on the throne? God is on the throne. Jesus wins. The universe ultimately dances to the beat of God's drum. No one else's. So don't be a fool. Cast your crown before the one who is worthy, the one who is seated on the throne. No one else. And nothing else.
SPEAKER_07There you are. Are you sure that was an Anglican church? You you looked exactly like an FIEC church leader, right? Yeah, I'm gonna get um some tattoos just to show that I've got a history. Like Mars Hill, Seattle, or something. But yeah. Yeah, no, I loved I love the way that you uh concluded that sermon. And I'll tell you, I'll tell you why. You preached Jesus and the Lamb winning in a sermon uh from Revelation 4. Now, Jesus in in a sense, the lamb comes in in chapter 5.
SPEAKER_06Well, yeah, that was absolutely in my head. Yeah. You know, you see a figure by the throne standing like the one one who was slain, yeah. You know, a lamb, you know. But so you I was very aware in my mind as I was going through this, it'd be really easy to get to the end of this whole preach and not have mentioned Jesus. Right. Um and I generally have a a a a rule uh if I've not mentioned Jesus, I've probably not done a very good job. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Spurgeon said, uh bring me a Christless sir sermon, but you may as well bring me flowerless bread. You know. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Um but go, sorry, I s well I s I see that rule being applied to the Old Testament. Oh, because we've we've learnt the rule. We've learnt that you can't preach from Judges 13 without at some stage, at the end of the very, very end of the sermon, saying, and it makes us wonder, is there another ruler? Another judge.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_07You know, and and you do like three sentences on Jesus because there's a rule, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Well, and in fairness, see, and and and I'm I did feel as I was writing this, there are am I just kind of crowbarring Jesus in a little bit at the end here, which is a bit of a bugbear of mine as well, with like when people just go, and here's three sentences on Jesus. Yeah. Umas there are lots of passages I would say in the old testament where I feel like you know, we've been doing it reading Ezekiel um and we keep seeing the glory of God in the likeness of a man, and it's you know, he said the glory of God, he said, Yeah, yeah. We're going, well, who is the visible image of the invisible God? It's Christ. And so as I read that, I I think if I was preaching on these things, I'd just be like, Christ, Christ, Christ, Christ, Christ, all the way through. It's not kind of like, oh and by the way, it's probably Jesus, but never mind. Yeah. Um so I there wasn't even it was an element even this because I I think if if it if chapter five wasn't there, I would very comfortably, I would be quite comfortable saying the one on the throne that's being described is Jesus. And there's a kind of truth in that, in that you know, you've got this Trinitarian thing going on, but yet in I know in chapter five you do see this other figure who is you know set to the side slightly around the throne, and so I was hesitant to just be like Jesus is on the throne, because I don't think that's quite what the passage says, even though I agree, you know, we're seated on the throne.
SPEAKER_07That's probably because I mean chapter divisions have like totally stuffed it up for us, haven't they? Sure, yeah, yeah. Chapter 3, verse 21 says that Jesus has sat down on his father's throne, and he invites us to sit down on his throne too. So he is a different figure, but he shares the same throne.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and I guess that's difficult with the that's part of the difficulty of the kind of symbolic descriptions you get, that you you end up kind of having this very literal picture in your head of what it must look like.
SPEAKER_07And then chapter five, uh and again, the the chapter division between four and five is totally artificial, it was just invented so you could navigate your way around the Bible. Yeah. So, like, in one sense, I I don't I wouldn't want to preach on Revelation 4 without Revelation 5. But even if I was just given that passage, I mean it begins with the voice that John had been hearing, which is Christ's voice. He hears. And he is in the spirit, so through the Son and by the Spirit, he's presented to the Father. And and as long as you're you know talking about yeah, in Christ and by the Spirit. I wish I'd said that. In Christ and by the Spirit, then Yeah, do a do a do a sermon on the Father, but but you you can't do a revelation sermon without talking about the Lamb winning. Um and I and I think to to divide four and five up is just it's it's so obviously not what you're meant to do because it's one scene. Right, yeah. Um but so but so therefore it's totally l legitimate to you know to finish your sermon with the lamb because there's no way that if you were you know in the first century receiving the you know this letter to the seven churches and we'll read the rest tomorrow. Yeah. Wait seven days. I'll I'll tell you what happens next. Like, no way. Yeah, yeah. No way. So so I I think there's a vital importance for preaching Christ in the New Testament. Um I I I bang the drum. I bang the drum for preaching Christ in the Old Testament, but uh honestly I I get some people who then go, Oh, okay, there's a rule. Alright, in the Old Testament I'll preach Christ. And then they preach Revelation 4 Christlessly. And they preach Mark 13, you know, the the the end times, Christlessly, or the fruit of the Spirit Christlessly, or the entire book of James, Christlessly.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_07And you and because and the only reason Because they think that the point of a sermon is the New Testament. If you're in the Old Testament, you've got to get to the New Testament. And if you're in the New Testament, well, you don't need to get anywhere, you're fine. Whereas the point of both Old and New Testament is to point to Christ. You know, it's not that it's not that the Old Testament points to the New Testament, it's that both Old and New point to Christ. Therefore, yes, it's important in Judges 13 to get to Christ, but it's also important in Revelation 4.
SPEAKER_06And I think as well, and I'm happy to discuss with people's thoughts on this, but there's also an idea, isn't there, that when we're saying we must always point people to Christ, what we m what sometimes people read that as we must always kind of get in a few sentences about penal substitution and the cross.
SPEAKER_07Right.
SPEAKER_06And I and I'm just not sure that's quite I mean yeah, I mean Paul wants to preach the cross, Christ crucified.
SPEAKER_07But I mean not every time he mentions Christ crucified, does he mention penal substitution?
SPEAKER_06Sure, absolutely. And I think if you're teaching Old Testament, you know, if you're you know, if you were teaching Ezekiel, it would be a bit odd to just go, you know, this figure is Jesus. And let's just quickly just give a quick gospel outline. Yes, you know, my however many three let's do three, two, one or six boxes of two ways to live quickly. Um that would be unusual. Yeah. You know, there you there are other things you can point to about who Christ is. Right.
SPEAKER_07Um And there's other models of the atonement, so even though penal substitution is absolutely the heart, there are other models of the atonement and other ways of preaching Jesus. You know, so so preaching Jesus from Ezekiel 1 and just seeing the glory of God's, you know, presented as this this glowing, radiant man who is like the sun, who is the light of the world. Um you've you've warmed hearts with Christ there.
SPEAKER_06And I think I remember, if my memory's correct, I remember preaching Isaiah 6 and just saying, like, you know, John says, Yeah. John says, who is Isaiah seeing? He's seeing Jesus. And like for me, like, that's an absolute joy. Like to see that.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. The one seated on the throne in the temple vision.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, this isn't this isn't a theologi yeah, this isn't a theological kind of, oh, isn't this a nice little theological idea we've come we've we've managed to pull out of the text that actually, you know, this is a yeah, here's a Christophany or a all this kind of stuff. Um, you're like, this is really important stuff that like here's Jesus in the Old Testament. He is the one who's on the throne, and Isaiah saw his glory, and that's massive, you know. And that should really that's not a secondary thing, that's a pretty driving foundational thing through you know, as you're speaking about who this god figure is, particularly in the old testament. Yeah, yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_07And I think I love Isaiah 6 because you've got the the the king, the lord high and lifted up on the throne, and then the next time you see someone high and lifted up in in Isaiah is Isaiah 53. Right, yeah. He's high and lifted up and greatly exalted and and on a on an altar. So he's high and lifted up on the throne, and he's high and lifted up on an altar. And and yeah, absolutely you can preach Christ and him crucified like through that. Yeah, yeah. But Isaiah 6, I always go to and and and kind of say, um, he is both present and he's promised, and he's patterned, you know, in in Isaiah 6. He's he's present as he is the Lord on the throne there. He is promised, because at the end it's about the holy seed who will come, and he is the true remnant of Israel to to make them fruitful again. And he's also patterned, you know, just as Isaiah says, Woe is me. Well, it's the it's the burning coal from the altar that actually, you know, um cleanses him and and uh restores him. And so you've got Christ promised, you've got him um present, promised, and patterned there. Um and I don't mind if you've preached Christ just present or just promised or just patterned. Um and I don't mind if you don't necessarily preach Christ penal substitutionary atonement, but let's preach Jesus. Yeah, you know?
SPEAKER_06Yeah. And and I mean it literally I mean I I do find it literally one of the most thrilling things of reading the Old Testament is going like some sometimes I feel like uh it's a bit like where's Wally? And then where's Jesus? There he is, yeah, I found him, like and it's really but the thing is he's not hidden. I don't think he's hidden at all. Yeah, you know, that's the thing. Some people you get the idea that you know Jesus is there if you look hard enough. But as there's so many times when I read and I just go, but it's so obvious. And even like Moses at the burning bush, you know, and and I can't remember if it's in Exodus, well, it's not in Exodus, it must be later in the New Testament. So you know, you Christ spoke to Moses through the bush. And you're like, Well, who's in the bush? You're like, Yeah, you know, all these things, or you know, Abraham and the various angel, you know, angel of the Lord type figures.
SPEAKER_07And this is why people need to read long story short from Christian Focus by Glenn Scrivener. You can go and get that. It's all good stuff. It's all good stuff. It's all good stuff. Uh Bill Lovell, hello, Bill from Texas. Having his breakfast. Uh the the the clocks have changed, so maybe maybe yes. Discovered a meal between breakfast and brunch. Who said that, people? For ten points. Um Bill Lovell says, over a longer minute, uh you guys are both young. One of the greatest privileges for a pastor teacher is to preach this Sunday sermon in the light of last Sunday sermon and last month's and last year's. Um that's true. Um But in in in UK circles, we tend not to just take a whole book, just have one preacher. Um if if it if there's a church of any any kind of size, um they tend to share out the preaching quite a bit. And so you c you know, so I I preached on 2 Corinthians 5, the the first half of it, um last Sunday, and I was just thinking, oh, and I'd love to have the second half of 2 Corinthians 5. But no, it goes to somebody else.
SPEAKER_06And you it's a shame because I uh we don't do a huge amount of that. Um but there's certainly things where you get your teeth into I mean something like Revelation. Wow. Where suddenly you get your teeth into a chapter and you think, oh yeah. Yeah. I'll keep it be great to keep going.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Um Yeah. And Bill goes on, over a longer ministry, your series on Isaiah is preached in the light of last year's series on John, and the last year and last year's series on John was in the light of the previous year's series on Revelation. The local congregation forms the context for all the teaching. Yeah. So yeah, good to get that bigger.
SPEAKER_06I would be interested to know, like, what should if there is a model of that in church where people do a kind of like this term, you know, January to Easter, pretty much every Sunday morning the curate will do the sermon on the same book.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, the same pressure.
SPEAKER_06And then the next season will be the vicar or whoever. I wonder if anyone really if there is anyone doing that, maybe not quite such long things. I wonder whether there's benefits to doing that. There must be pros and cons. Like Yeah. I mean obviously it'd be quite exhausting during it, but you get a rest period at the end, but you get the fluidity of having the context and knowing what you've said and building on what you've done. I don't know.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, no, I like that. So you so you get Colossians and you'll do that for the next four weeks, and then I'll get Jonah and I'll do that for the next four weeks. Yeah, maybe I like that.
SPEAKER_06It'll be interesting to know whether people are doing that kind of thing and how it works and if it works.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Yeah. Good thoughts, everybody. Good thoughts. Um lovely thoughts. Lovely thoughts. Thoughts and prayers. Um, good to have your company, everybody. Uh so this was the live cast for the 26th of March. Um if you want to check out Paul's sermon, you can find it on YouTube, um, on our channel, Speak Life UK. Do do search for Speak Life UK and do subscribe to us on YouTube, that'll be great. And it'll uh drop on Facebook tonight. This will be a f a um podcast coming out this Friday. Uh do you know that we have two podcasts? Uh so this uh drops as a podcast, do search for us in iTunes or wherever you you get your podcasts. And there's also Reading Between the Lines, which takes a phrase every day and basically sees Christ as the heart of all scripture, and so you can go through from Genesis to Revelation. Um so yeah, do subscribe to that as well. People enjoy read uh listening to that on their commutes and that sort of thing. Uh but next week, uh on Monday night, we're gonna have uh Alistair Roberts uh video, and I'm gonna be in the United States of America. The US of A. Um, so I'm gonna be at the Gospel Coalition.
SPEAKER_06I'm expecting you to come back with like a flag, a little flag, MAGA hat.
SPEAKER_02USA, USA, America, America.
SPEAKER_07Um so yes, I'll be bum bag. You know, fanny pack. It's a fanny pack, isn't it? Yeah. Um so I'll be speaking at doing a seminar, one of one of like 3,000 different seminars at uh the National Conference for the Gospel Coalition. And I'm gonna see people like Claire Urig, who's watching now, Hello Claire and Wade, and uh meeting a few other people um in Indianapolis. So that'll be great. Nice. And you'll be doing something here, won't you?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, but well I won't not here, because this room, this building will be gone. Yeah, I hope you're not here.
SPEAKER_07We're in here, we're in trouble. Um, and then we will we will broadcast from uh another secret location in a fortnight's time. But uh yeah, until then, keep speaking live, people. Absolutely. God bless. Bye bye. Take care, see ya.