The Speak Life Podcast, sharing Jesus in everyday life.
SPEAKER_02You might see me as being responsible for the murder of 70,000 women, but really? Because if you really thought I was responsible for the murder of 70,000 people, I don't think we'd be debating in this particular way. So I too believe that from the time Aki is fertilized, that a human life is there. I don't believe it's a life that has the same value of the life that knows that it's alive.
SPEAKER_03I was petrified. And I spent some minute nights. I just did prolong and I grew strong. I think well it's just long and I'm unique. I just think the boss that's coming after me. You want to see the love.
SPEAKER_04I've got on the left.
SPEAKER_01I got all my left view, I was like, I'll find this always be down.
SPEAKER_02A life that is not good for something. It really isn't for anybody who's concerned.
SPEAKER_04Welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_08Welcome to the live cast. Good to have you uh back with us. That's right. Good to be back with you, because you've probably not been anywhere. We've been away. We've been away. We've not been here.
SPEAKER_03It's been us.
SPEAKER_08We have been to Southampton.
SPEAKER_03We've been on a mission called Human. Human. Yes.
SPEAKER_08We're only human after all.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. He took the blame for me. As as you might want to update a popular beat song. Yes. Yes. I I saw even that Bethany Squires from Southampton University might even be watching. Are you watching, Bethany? Are you there? Say hello. Wearing my jumper. Thank you for the jumper. Um so we were just there for uh a week of outreach, and uh yeah, they threw the kitchen sink at it, and it was marvelous.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, it was a great time. It was really good, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So we had uh morning meetings and uh then lunchtime talks, yeah. Where uh people took on very interesting issues like God and science and is there truth and meaning and what these kind of things. Yeah. Can you trust the gospels and things like that? Yep. Uh Bethany Squire says, Nice jumper, Glenn. Thank you, Bethany. Um It's the way I wear it. Yeah. As Will Smith says in which film is it? Where he says, I'll make this look good. What's that? Men in Black Black and Men in Black Black. That's it. I'll make this look good. Um so yeah, lunchtime talks, and then in the evening uh interviews and talk from yourself.
SPEAKER_08That's right. It was a good lineup of interviews, wasn't it? We had James Carey, who if you have been following Speak Life for a while, you might have seen him on not on here before, but on the Speak Life channel, round the time he did Divine Comedy. That's right. So you can still go and check out those interviews actually.
SPEAKER_03Um, they're called like What's So Funny about Good Friday, aren't they?
SPEAKER_08What's so funny about Easter Sunday and stuff like that. So you can check them out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, and you can find uh that actual talk uh if you find the Southampton University Christian Union uh YouTube channel. Uh huh. Uh there's actually recordings of the uh in interview and the talk that I gave on what is life, a comedy or tragedy. So that was good, and we'll we'll get into more of uh what that is later on in the show. But uh Paul, what were we thinking? Um we we started off with uh a Gloria Gaynor number. Um disco for the unborn.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, I mean I I I uh at some point during this morning I turned to Glenn and I just said, What are we doing with our lives? Like I mean, for the last twenty-four hours, the only thing I've seen is that baby on that screen. Yeah. Trying to get my lips to match up with the lips of a fetus. I feel I've slightly lost my mind. Have you been able to get I Will Survive out of your head? Uh no, it's no worm. Continually humming it wherever I go at the moment. So um what were we thinking? Yeah, I don't know. Well, what were you thinking, Glenn? I mean, I just get roped into these things. I just get dragged along.
SPEAKER_03Well, I was in the bathroom and when I said the word Faredy, it sounded like a phrase. And then I started singing it. When first I saw Faredy, I was petrified. And the rest wrote itself, really. Kept thinking I could never live through her mass feet aside. Yeah. So I just yeah, and then I said make it happen. Make it happen, Paul. Yep. Yeah. So I hope you like it.
SPEAKER_08Well, um next year's Jerusalem Awards. Best use of lip sync.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I feel it. A BAFTA is coming. So, you know, and the the whole point was that we were picking up from uh the latest unbelievable debates, where Anne Farrady, who is the chief executive of B Pass, the largest abortion provider in the UK, uh, debated Sue Thayer, who used to work for Planned Parenthood, who's the largest uh uh abortion provider provider in the States, on have abortion rights gone too far? Sue Thayer, having worked for Planned Parenthood, uh, is now pro-life. Anne Farrady uh emphatically is pro-abortion. And so they they had uh a very civil um conversation about it, and and lots of people have sort of wondered, should it be so civil when they're talking about things um so heated? But actually I I thought that um a civil discussion actually uncovers more things uh than if it's all um you know accusations and hurling elephants at one another. Um and so what what I thought we could do is um just just briefly go through I think the five things that Anne Faredi gets right um rather than majoring on the things that she gets wrong. But I think as soon as you grant the five things that she gets right, I think her position then kind of crumbles, basically. Um and if you don't know what we're talking about, you can go to um YouTube and check out uh the debates. They both filmed it and it is now uh on the podcast as well. But we've put the link in the Facebook comments uh so you can check out the debate yourself. But um uh I've used both clips from this debate and um from some other things that Anne Farrady has done at points. But uh just thought we could go through here here are the five things I think Anne Faredi, uh an abortion rights activist, gets right. Number one, abortion is used routinely as a backstop to contraception. Anne Farradi is very clear on this and thinks it is not a problem at all. So let's uh have a look at this first clip. Abortion is used routinely as a backstop to contraception.
SPEAKER_02Well, actually, I'm not going to use anything at the time of sex. I'll use the morning after pill, perhaps, because I don't really want to have an abortion. But if the morning after pill fails because it's not so effective, I'll have an abortion as a backup. I think I you know, women do that. I think it's a completely reasonable thing for them to do.
SPEAKER_03So women do that, women do that, and it's a completely reasonable thing to do. Um so often that's raised as just uh an objection to abortion, that it's just contraception after the fact. Um but she's like, yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_08Yeah. Well no, it's interesting because I would say I I a lot of people who are pro-choice, uh I would say I often hear them saying that's not what people do. Right. That people aren't using it as a form of contraception, that it's a kind of last, yeah, you know, last resort kind of thing. But actually she seems to be saying actually it's quite common that people do have that mentality, and she goes, that's fine. Right, yeah. Which I disagree with.
SPEAKER_03But that's where her that's where her conversation begins. She's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's just let's just acknowledge where we're at. It's a form of contraception. Yeah. And if you don't want to use contraception, that's fine, use the morning after pill, and if that hasn't worked and you haven't thought about it, then use abortion. And, you know, as we'll get on, she wants to uh uh abolish any restrictions on abortion post 24 weeks, uh, which is the the restriction that is in place in the UK. So so here's one thing that Anne Ferredi gets right abortion is used routinely as a backstop to contraception. Uh the leading advocate for abortion rights in this country says that just boldly. Okay. Well, that's she's honest at least. She's honest. Okay, there's number one. Uh the number two thing that Anne Ferredi gets right is that she says, and this is so key, the unborn child is human, is a life, a human life from conception. Get this.
SPEAKER_02I too believe that from the time an egg is fertilized, that a human life is there. And you know, I think we all, well, not all of us obviously, but I think we could both say that we have a presumption in favour of life. And that unique life is wonderful and is marvellous, whether you think it's God given or not. But the point is, for me, is is it's really about who makes a decision about how that life is is valued in not in the abstract, but in relation to other things. There are things that we can agree on. For example, we can agree on the beginnings of life. The fundamental thing that we disagree on is when that life really begins to matter morally and who should make the moral decision.
SPEAKER_08There it is, wowsers. See, that again is not what I would say I hear abortion, like pro-abortion um advocates saying. Often they'll say it's not a life until some arbitrary point. Certainly wouldn't go as far as Anne does and say it's a human life, that'd be even worse saying that, because that really puts you in a bind. Um so again, fair play to Anne for that. Um the amazing thing is at what point does that life become valuable?
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_08At which point I think I'd want to say to Anne, is your life valuable yet? Yeah. You know, or any of our lives, but if but on what basis are you going to do that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Because in wanting to lift the limit from twenty-four weeks, she makes an argument in this debate that it is so arbitrary and silly to say that twenty-three weeks and six days you can kill a human life. Yep. And at twenty-four weeks plus one day, you cannot kill a human life.
SPEAKER_08She says, you know, five to midnight wrong, five past, yeah, that's fine. How arbitrary. How arbitrary. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And then Justin asks the excellent question, you know, well then isn't it arbitrary for you? Because you're saying, you know, five minutes before birth, fine. Fine. And five minutes after birth, not fine. Not so much. Not so much. Absolutely. Isn't that arbitrary? And she really struggles with that question. Well, she just doesn't really answer the question. She kind of talks around it. No. She does, she does say, as as we'll get on to, well, we'll we'll we'll get on to what she does say at that point. But but the unborn child is I is life and is a human life from conception.
SPEAKER_08And I guess like And she says about how, you know, and then she talks about it like, even if you're not religious, this beautiful, amazing thing. Yes. Yes, wonder.
SPEAKER_03And it has some value, and that value grows over the course of the gestation. Um and and in a sense, she has to say that from conception there is life and human life from a scientific point of view. Yeah. So she's kind of she's forced she's forced to say that um scientifically, but then makes a total hash of the philosophy, the theology of what life therefore means. Um but you know, Anne Farrady says abortion is used routinely as a backstop to contraception. Secondly, the unborn child is human from conception. Maybe she should follow through on these thoughts a little further. But she at least gets that right. Thirdly, Anne Farrahdi admits that abortion is horrible. Let's have a look.
SPEAKER_02And my experience was a very different one. It is horrible. There is no doubt about it. As you say, you look at the remains following um a late term abortion and it is grim. But it's completely put into a different light by the conversations that you've had about why the women who requested that abortion are going through that procedure.
SPEAKER_03And I it's horrible and it's grim. Um but what she wants to do is she wants to take abortion out of the law and just make it a medical issue. Um but she's admitting that it's more than a medical issue by saying that it's horrible to that degree, because you you wouldn't say, you know, having your institutional.
SPEAKER_08Right. And you you know, some people might go, Oh, I'm blood. Yeah. Yeah. She's saying more than that, isn't she? I think so. Well she says there about the body parts. She uses the word, doesn't she? Body parts. I think she says that. Right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And in fact, just before that clip, she says, you know, I've been in a third trimester abortion, and then she stops herself and she says, Oh no, no, because bee pass don't do third trimester abortions. Uh but I've been to a late term abortion, and blah blah and and off she went. Interesting slip of the tongue. I just put that out again. Interesting slip of the tongue. But um, yeah, it is horrible, it is grim. It starts to sound like morally horrible, right?
SPEAKER_08And fascinating that her justification is you the conversations, presumably she's saying, you know, these people have are saying if I have this baby, then this is what it will mean for me. Uh and you just think, well, yeah, but you can just you can just use that at any stage in life for anybody. Right. You know, actually looking after grandma's really expensive in the care home. Yeah. So it'd be better if we just got rid of her now. Um but these newborns are pretty hard work. Right. Right. You know, completely mucked up my life. I can't go back to work. Yeah. Um where do you draw I mean she talk about arbitrary, you know? Right. There's arbitrary right there, you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And she'll say that sentience is what grants the the the the human child rights. Um but you know, but from one perspective, the human brain isn't properly formed until age twenty five. Yep. You know, uh and certainly the the born child who's five minutes old, um, doesn't have any more sentience than the unborn child. Um and and that gets onto the fourth thing that Anthora gets right. The fourth thing that Anthora gets right is she admits that the difference between the unborn and the born is only one of geography. For the for the fetus involved, for the unborn child involved, the only difference be f between being on this side of the birth canal and that side of the birth canal is merely geography.
SPEAKER_09What's the difference between the baby being in the womb and the sort of the journey out of the birth canal and then being out of the womb when suddenly that child acquires a whole set of rights that it doesn't have inside the womb?
SPEAKER_02I think it's a really difficult question, and it's something that I'm really struggling with myself actually to think about how to explain this. I mean, is it's simply a matter of geography, and that doesn't matter to the fetus.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah, there it is.
SPEAKER_08Literally just position where you are geographically.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. It's it's like saying it's illegal to stab me in the living room, but in the kitchen. All bets are off. You know. Literally one of geography. And she says, like, to the fetus, it doesn't matter. But her argument is that once the child is outside the womb, then a whole bunch of other people can come in and care for the child, which was not true. You know, while the child was inside the womb, the woman was the sole, you know, had sole responsibility for this child and had to keep it alive.
SPEAKER_08Once the child is out, well, social services can come in and and adopt the child out and surely you can just apply I mean you could apply that from any any point at which a child could be viable. Right. You know, so any so if you look at the New York laws that have come in, you'd say, well that's nonsense, because you know, was it 21 weeks and six days was what John Wyatt said was the youngest child they'd ever had to vive. Yeah. So you'd have to say, wouldn't you, well, we just take the baby out and care for it rather than kill babies.
SPEAKER_03You know, but she she resisted that and and in the uh in the debate she said that um in the UK we've always had this tradition of strong bodily autonomy, such that even if you could do a an emergency C-section on uh on a mother and uh deliver the child alive and they would have a much better um uh chance of survival if the mother does not want that, then that that trumps everything because bodily autonomy, right? And and so so she says the only the only difference is geography, and we can't even change the geography if it'll change if it'll save the the the life.
SPEAKER_08Um and that just comes back around to your your rights as you know, it's not simply there are two bodies involved rather than just one. Right. Why does the woman's right trump a baby's rights? Right. Right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. We don't know. We don't know. Nathan Veal has just commented Nathan Veal from Warwick University, which we're gonna uh have a look at uh later on. He's just said the magical powers of the birth canal. No, yeah, we all know that one. Uh fantastic video. We do you think while we're playing a longer video, we might be able to find the magical powers of the birth canal? Yeah, maybe. Might be able to find okay. Um tremendous. The magical powers of the birth canal is um in in terms of comedy abortion videos there's that one and there's ours. The unborn uh abortion discount. Different markets, you know. You're aiming for different markets for different videos, you know, different demographics. Uh what's the fifth thing that Anne Fredi gets right? The fifth thing is that the humane response to a child who is born alive is to care for that child. Um so let's let's say that there was a botched abortion and the child is born alive. Now Anne Fredi says, that is a terrible state of affairs. That's the last thing that anybody wants. Except the child. Except maybe the baby. Right. The last thing that anybody wants is life. Um how inconvenient, right? Um but she does say, thankfully, she does say, that the humane response once the child is born alive is to care for the child. Let's have a look at this.
SPEAKER_02Should it happen, actually what we're legally obliged to do, and you might also say what morally the right thing to do, is to treat say, I don't know, for some reason the gestation has been wildly misassessed, then of course what you would be doing is treating that baby in a way that is humane, and if it is sufficiently advanced and could be resuscitated and could have a life, that is of course what you would do.
SPEAKER_09Even if you had only moments before been trying to kill the baby.
SPEAKER_02Well, I'm I'm thinking I'm we're talking hypotheticals here, so I'm putting myself in a hypothetical situation of, say, for example, I don't know, something had gone terribly wrong with a scanning process, and terribly wrong with the diagnostics, and a woman was having a medical abortion, fetal heart hadn't been stopped, and she delivered a fetus that turned out to be 32 weeks pregnant. And actually, you didn't think it was. Of course, you're going to do everything that you can to keep that baby alive. The nurses, the staff are not monsters. You know, of course you would be trying to do that because you would be in a different situation. Situation.
SPEAKER_09Even if you had only moments before been trying to kill the baby.
SPEAKER_03Sorry, that was a bit naughty.
SPEAKER_08Repeating that point. It just uh the whole thing boggles my mind. Like of course you you know, she says of course you would care for the baby. And she talks about, you know, 32 weeks. But I was just thinking, well, what do you do then? What happens to that baby? Because you can't give it to mum.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_08Unless you would want to strip away that autonomy there. Yeah. Like you know, if are you f and did m uh as it'll take it? Yeah, take it. Um doesn't want a baby.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. What's what's going on here? What's going on? Come on. Just Yeah. They're not monsters. They're not monsters. I I just thought Justin's question was brilliant. Yeah. Of course we care for even though five minutes early you've been trying to kill the baby. Of course we'd care for the baby. We're not monsters, even though by her own admission, the only thing that's changed is geography. We're not monsters. We would stab them in the living room, but we would never stab them in the kitchen. And the worst thing you'd want is a live birth. I know. That's what she says. That's the last thing anyone wants. Yeah. Which is why. That's why I I thought I'd have a singing baby in the womb, right? Because for goodness sakes, we need to you know we need to give a voice to the voiceless. And and someone needs to stand up and say, actually, I you know, here I am. This is actually that was actual footage from inside the womb. I had quite a deep voice as a child. My voice broke very early. So these are the the five things Anne Ferredi gets right. Abortion is used routinely as a backstop to contraception. Correct. The unborn child is human from conception, correct. Abortion is horrible, correct. The difference between the unborn and the born is only geography. Correct. And the humane response to a child born alive is to care for the child. Correct. Add those things up, and you should not be able to hold the pro-abortion position.
SPEAKER_08Um that that's why that I found that whole debate so fascinating, because she like I say, I I just don't think I've really come across people arguing for pro-choice who w would admit those things or would believe those things often, you know. Or maybe I mean they'd probably go for number five that it is humane to care for a child born alive. Yeah. Um but I think most people would would not want to admit those things. And I just find it so bizarre that you could admit those things. Yeah. And then, well, how can you in any way be cons consistently hold those views and then go and do that by any logic? Like, and then go, we're not monsters.
SPEAKER_03We're not monsters. And we're and how dare you ever call us murderers?
SPEAKER_08And she's deeply offended, isn't she, by the the um comparison to Nazi Germany and killing people in that way.
SPEAKER_03Or calling it murder, you know. Yeah. Like she's genuinely saying this is deliberately ending an innocent human life. Yep. Anyone want to Google murder? Just go to Wikipedia right now and uh look up the definition of murder. I think you'll find that it's deliberately ending an innocent human life. Which is precisely what she wants to do. Um so those are those are five things. Here are five things she gets right. Um and I I think if I was to I identify the one most horrible thing that she gets wrong is that she grants um that they are human and she denies that they have rights. So she basically has a model of humanity that's on a dimmer switch. It's not an on or off switch. Um scientifically, you are on from the moment of conception, but morally, you only accrue rights over your development in in terms of being a a a a dimmer switch. Um and for her, it it seems like self-consciousness is the thing that that turns up the brightness on your humanity to the point where you can be protected. Um which has all sorts of problems, you know, as as you say, for the elderly, for the disabled, for the the the young child. You know, as as as Ben Shapiro, you know, once once asked a guy who said, you know, sentience is what gives me value. He says, So can I stab you if you're in a coma?
SPEAKER_08I'd rather you didn't. But it doesn't just apply though, does it to uh and this is why I I understand why people are so offended by the comparison to Nazi Germany because no one wants to really be I mean it's it's gonna be a bit of a shock if you suddenly discover you hold a view that is Are we the baddies? Yeah, like that, isn't it? But um it doesn't just apply to the idea of killing, does it? You know, I mean you you could take this idea of there are this dimmer switch humanity, and you can see just how in the past it was like, well, you know, you're black, so you can't sit on this area of the bus or you're gonna be. Yeah, but you're not quite as human as these people. Yeah. Not up to that. You don't want humanity in the abstract.
SPEAKER_03We need to weigh your value against all sorts of competing questions.
SPEAKER_08And we already saw in there, I mean, it seems a bit shocking to us, but of course, in it she she's already talking on her it was on loose women, wasn't it, on the other clip about the mum should choose the gender, so you know, if you get a girl, you don't want a girl, fine. I mean, and of course that happened that has been going on for years and years and years, particularly kind of in in China. Um again it's that kind of well, who's more valuable? Right.
SPEAKER_03You know, there's humans, but there's humans and there's humans.
SPEAKER_08And at what point you know and and there's just no way you can say there's no way you can say I can do that in the womb and but it's not okay outside the womb. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, exactly. It's gotta be an on-or-and-off switch. It can't be the dimmer switch. And I and I think human rights is built on that. You know, so you know, the Declaration of Independence. Um Thomas Jefferson said, you know, we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by the Creator with certain unalienable rights. And uh surely inalienable. Come on, come on, Thomas Jefferson. But uh you know, it was it was written in as unalienable, and no no one's thought to spell check it. Um that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. So the the unalienable, the inalienable aspect of it, that it is inherent, it is not granted by anybody else. That person is valuable in and of themselves, not because the strong or powerful say that they're they're valuable, just because they're human.
SPEAKER_08Yep.
SPEAKER_03Same as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the inherent dignity, um it speaks of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable. So you you the UN gets it right, Thomas Jefferson not so much. The inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice, and peace in the world. It's gotta be an on or an off switch. And if you grant that they are human, you can't say they're human, but they're the killable kind. That's not an option. Sorry, Anne. Not an option. Um and that's what makes her position so uh horrific, because it it it it not only leads to the killing of the unborn, it it leads to the devaluing of all life. Um and putting all human beings on a scale, and you've got to you've got to weigh people up. And it's and it's the strong who determine whether the weak are valuable or not.
SPEAKER_08I wonder, I mean, my I I'm just thinking, you know, where is this gonna go longer term? And I mean there is some argument that as science progresses we'll get even further into the kind of life beginning, you know, the science will reveal even more about the child younger and younger and younger in the development stages. Um and there is a you know, there's a hope that years from now people will look back on abortion and then they'll be as horrified by people's attitudes to abortion as we are to to slavery or um apartheid or segregation, all those things. Um I think so. And I I I I think that's possible. Yeah. Um and and I hope I and I think we'll move on to some other kind of genocidal ideological. Well, that's the thing is that the it it's when it gets to the other end of the spectrum, because I think that is coming, um, as these things always do, because there is no doubt about you know, grandma and granddad being alive. But that becomes it it's not going to be a question of science there.
SPEAKER_03Well, brain death has changed its definition something like twenty times in the last fifty years. Oh really? Yeah. So like brain dead was never a thing until until we realized that we need to harvest organs from people in order to redistribute them to the living. Um, but they they discovered that as soon as the heartbeat stops, actually all the organs apart from corneas are are worthless once the heartbeat stops. So you actually have to carve up a living human body in order to redistribute the the organs. And so that's where they came out with brain death, right? Sent the sentience had had you know not quite reached the right limit. Um and then we've relaxed that definition of brain death twenty times in the last fifty years. That's interesting. Right? Yeah. You know, a and I think a a culture of life is not just about the unborn, it's uh it's about all these kinds of issues. And it has ramifications for for all kinds of things. But um anyway, do check out the Unbelievable uh podcast. I'm sure you're all subscribing to the Unbelievable Podcast. Um it had James Carey on it the week before, um, as as well as lots of other great stuff. So do check them out. And um uh I've put a link to the video in the comments, and uh I'm sure we will return to this topic uh another time. But uh shall we move on to some happier news? Uh as we've said at the start of the programme, we were uh off on university missions. I was up in Warwick uh two weeks ago and then we were at Southampton. Just about. Just about. Got there. I made it. I made it just in time for my talk. Um so uh I thought one one great way of introducing you to what uh a week in the life of a university mission might look like would be to show you a clip that Warwick University Christian Union made uh about our week that was called Uncover, and that'll give you uh a little sense of what we get up to in a week of mission. I come in, let's look at what's inside the uncover today.
SPEAKER_05When night has fallen, when fear is coming, still you're coming. When faith is last day, it is last you will be last.
SPEAKER_03Here we go. So uh you can check that out on the Work University Fruit Union.
SPEAKER_08It's like a couple of big marquees and sitting around with your coffee table and whatnot.
SPEAKER_03It was fantastic. Yeah. So uh yeah, I mean because you're in it from morning till night, and it's it's it is its own best advertising, and people are like, Oh, what's going on? Why are why are all the people, you know, and so a crowd.
SPEAKER_08Why is this marquee sprung up in the middle of the campus or whatever? Why are you tabernacling among us? Well come into the Holy of Holies.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's right. No, no one's allowed in there. Only me. Um so that was um yeah, so you know, we would have, you know, prayer meetings in the morning, and then we'd hit the campus and do some uh first contact evangelism, and then lunchtimes, and uh Tom Price gave some talks, and um John Dawson gave a great science and God talk, and then Christy Mayer um gave some brilliant talks. In fact, um maybe we'll put in the show notes uh a suffering talk that she gave, which was just absolutely phenomenal. And and like six people said they wanted to become Christians at the end of her lunchtime talk. Um just just amazing. And uh and in the evenings I was just getting up and shooting my mouth off and and and then there was some good um musical items at the end and oh they also had um the Mark drama, which is have you ever seen the Mark Drama drama? I've not seen it, no. It's fantastic, absolutely fantastic. So um you just get a a bunch of people, maybe a twelve, maybe like a dozen people, um, to basically learn Mark's gospel, and you think, how can anyone do that? But but people just from from naught to sixty, they just you know, learn these lines. You just they recite the whole gospel. Yeah, I mean not verbatim, okay, but they just sort of have the gist and they just get in their heads and it and it really makes you think that Jesus taught memorably. So you get to Mark IV, and oh how do I remember Mark IV? Oh, that's the parable of the sowers? Oh, okay, there's four soil types, aren't there? And you know, so a sower went out to Scatterfield, Scatter Seed in his field, and is that what on that video with the people on the floor? Yeah, the people doing that were doing part of the mark drama. They did that twice, and people were really moved by it because you the actors move among the the the crowd. And and of course, if you're an actor in the mark drama, you kind of say to all your flatmates, hey, come along and watch me, and and uh they all did. Um yeah, Bill Lavelle saying the mark drama. Oh yes, the mark drama.
SPEAKER_08That should just be part of the advertising.
SPEAKER_03It's yeah, it's absolutely phenomenal. And uh if you want to get in touch about putting on a mark drama near you, I can put you in touch with the right people. It's um it's very, very moving, actually. Um, you know, the the death scene, so Jesus dying on the cross, like is I want to say stretched out. It's not stretched out, it's actually compacted to about four minutes, five minutes of you know, Jesus kind of trying to breathe and and groaning in pain, and it's really uncomfortable. And then you remember, oh, a third of Mark's gospel is about his death. You know. And as uncomfortable as it is to sit through five minutes of the Son of God kind of going through that, you think, wow, probably was relatively uncomfortable. Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Just throwing that out there.
SPEAKER_03There's five things that Anthorages said that was true. And that was one thing that Paul said that was also true.
SPEAKER_08There's the kind of little nuggets of wisdom I like to place. You know. It's quite uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_03Godforsaken agony and all that. But yeah, it really it really brings it home to you when they act it out in front of you. So that was great. And uh yeah, we s saw loads of people who said they wanted to become Christians and lots of people being followed up. And Nathan Veal, if you want to comment, uh you can let us know how things have been going and the follow-up. Uh, but the week after we went to Southampton University, and and how did you find that week? You you didn't come to Warwick, but you were with me in Southampton. Southampton. Yeah, it was great.
SPEAKER_08Had a good time down in Southampton. Really nice. Uh I thought the CU did a really good job. Um, they were kind of really well organized. And I I don't know if they're I don't know if they're the biggest CU in the country, they're one of the biggest, aren't they? There's quite quite a good crowd at them. Um so you know, it seemed like there were loads of people kind of doing stuff, lots of you know, obviously they were running lots of events, don't know how many there were altogether, but definitely kind of lunch and evening. Um and yeah, just you know, lots of people getting involved seemed to be particularly at the lunch bars, lots of people coming along. Um particularly from day two. Day one was a little bit quieter. Always builds. Yeah. But then other days it was standing room only.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_08And you know, people come for whatever reason, you know, there's a sandwich. Oh, it's a free sandwich, brilliant. Um or you know, people who have got a genuine interest, but it's just a really good opportunity, isn't it? To you know, you get to sit down with people and have a chat with them and and whatnot. Um obviously you're flyering similar to Warwick, you know, in the mornings they had a big board in the middle of the kind of courtyard area with kind of different questions on each day to kind of engage people in conversation and get flies in their hands and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_03So no, it was really good. And there were people coming to Christ both in uh Warwick and in Southampton. There was uh I I just got a message yesterday um that that somebody was sitting on a table with a girl who'd been brought to the final evening, and I was interviewing uh an astrophysicist uh called Christopher. Southampton, yeah. Yeah, at Southampton. Oh sorry, yeah, at Southampton. So I I was uh interviewing uh an astrophysicist, Christine Doane. Yep. And uh yeah, she she knows all about black holes. Black holes, that was the thing, wasn't it? Yeah. And rockets. And yeah, rocket and and like launching off and and pointing your X-ray telescope wherever you liked. Yep. Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Rocket science and brain surgery and that's right. She was a rocket scientist.
SPEAKER_03And um and straight after the interview, we just had a little cake break before I was about to speak, and and one of the girls turned to her host and said, uh, this is great. So how do I become a Christian? And then like I spoke and said, How do you become a Christian? And she was like, Okay, good, I'll do that then. Sign me up. Sign me up. And uh and Nathan Veal from Warwick has just said, Bunch of people coming to church for the first time this coming week. Some new Christians who are really close, some new Christians, some who are really close, good number of people who are really close. Great. That's really great. So please pray. Uh pray for um uh those from Durham. Uh I say Durham because this week uh there is a mission uh happening up in Durham as well. Um the Story Mission. I I did story a couple of weeks, a couple of years ago. And uh yeah, do be praying for university uh missions. There'll there'll be like a hundred different CUs around the country doing something um in terms of reaching their their campuses, and it's such a fertile time for evangelism. Um not only are people at a stage of life where they're asking questions, not only are they being encouraged to ask the big questions through their studies, but also they're living cheek by jowl with other Christians, um, and they just can't escape. You know, if you if if you're if you've got two Christian housemates, you know, you're gonna hear about you know Jesus quite consistently. And and so, yeah, you s you see lots of new life springing up because of these university missions. So uh yeah. I thought the the third and final thing we could talk about in uh the live cast is the issue of truth not tribalism. That's what we've uh entitled this live cast, Truth Not Tribalism, and what made me think of of that is that uh in the last week or so there have been three news items uh that have really highlighted horrors within the church, uh church scandals uh that really we ought to not distract from or deflect from, but uh to own and to face and to repent of. Um so uh probably probably two weeks ago now, the Houston Chronicle. We've got some viewers from uh from Texas at the moment. You can uh you can chip in if you like, but the Houston Chronicle broke uh a story about the Southern Baptist Convention, uh which has nearly 50,000 churches. It's it's one of the largest denominations um on earth, actually. It's it's something like the the Catholics, there's the Anglicans, and there's the Southern Baptists. Something like that. Um over the last twenty years there have been 700 victims um of sexual abuse, uh 250 perpetrators who have worked or volunteered in Southern Baptist churches and have been charged with sex crimes. Um and so like huge story and huge shame and um heartbreaking uh to read. So the the the uh Houston Chronicle article is very, very long, and just just reading because it wants to like take you through not just stats and figures, but actually there was this woman who had this experience, and there was this young girl who had that experience, and it's heartbreaking uh to read through it. How do we respond when these horrible scandals come to light? And then in the last week, James McDonald, uh who's the founding pastor of uh Harvest Bible Chapel, a Chicago area megachurch, uh, he was fired after saying some pretty shocking things uh about uh the staff of Christianity today and other people, and the board said that it was this plus some allegations of of bullying that um he was already under consideration uh for, under investigation for. Uh, and so he was fired, and we are led to believe that others um on staff at uh Harvest Bible Chapel will also be uh fired for for a culture of of bullying and anger and and um some nastiness happening behind the scenes. Um and then the third thing that's happened, and and again, these are all sort of clustered together in in certainly in my Facebook newsfeed, but uh Al Moller uh just the other day, I think uh a couple of days ago, apologized for supporting C. J. Mahaney um of Sovereign Grace churches. And uh that was when there were a whole bunch of allegations leveled at uh Sovereign Grace for both sexual and domestic abuse cover-ups, and Al Mola had publicly supported C. J. Mahaney and he now regrets having done that. He sort of sees that uh too uh we are too eager to circle the wagons and s to um to stand up for our friends when actually maybe our friends have done some pretty uh horrific things. Um but but that that whole mentality is what allows Abuse to flourish. So how do we break out of this idea of of um truth not tribalism? Well, um so Rachel Den Hollander, we've uh we've spoken about her before. She was somebody uh who uh testified against the uh the Team USA gymnastics coach, Larry Nassau. Nasser, yeah. Yeah um wonderful Christian woman who um kind of spoke publicly about the evil of uh abusing children and held out forgiveness to her abuser and has been blistering in her rebuke of of churches when they have you know covered up abuse. Um and um and I just thought she she tweeted this out when the Southern Baptist Abuse scandal broke. She said, The worst part is that we have known for years I have known most of this for years and spoken out about it. Nobody wanted to listen. It did not matter enough to investigate an act. Grief and repentance and silence to learn is the only proper response. Grief and repentance and silence to learn is the only proper response. And I just thought that that's so different from the natural human response, which is to double down and say, well don't trust the sources. You know, it was the Houston Chronicle, you know, it's the world, you know, and and so how how easy would it be just to say, ah, it's fake news, it's biased. Or to deflect and to say, well, what about other perpetrators? You know? There are other churches that are just as bad, or or there's Team USA, you know, gymnastics, or there's the BBC, or there's, you know, what about, what about, what about, what about uh you know, we deflect and we distract and we diminish and we self-justify. And Rachel Den Hollander says, no, grief and repentance and silence to learn is the only proper response. And I I it just got me thinking um about the these two paradigms that I've been thinking about recently, which which is are we on a a war footing or are we on an exile footing? And I think a lot of people, because they're on Twitter and you know, there's left versus right and there's Brexit versus Remain, we are on a war footing, and therefore the other side is always wrong, and we are always right. And even when it's shown that our side is wrong, um it must be fake news or all these kinds of things, and we double down on our own position and we never learn and we never grieve and we never put up our hands and say we were wrong. Um Whereas I think when we're not on a warfare footing, uh we are on a an exile footing. That actually the the church and the world are not the same at all, and Babylon is really, really bad, right? Babylon is really, really bad, and the people of God are really precious to God. Um but there come times when God uses Babylon to judge his people, or he uses Assyria to judge his people. I was just reading in Isaiah chapter 36 recently. Um, Sennacherib says to all the Israelites as he's besieging them, they were they were like, No, go away, we've got the Lord. And Sennacherib was like, the Lord told me to come and do this. Like your your God has brought me to bring judgment on you. And and Sennacherib, the enemy of God's people, is right, and God's people are wrong. And I I've been reading through Jeremiah recently, and just it just seems like constantly God is like, okay, you're gonna go into exile, settle down in Babylon, pray for the prosperity of the of the of the city, um, you know, and and don't listen to all those prophets who just want to say, um, no, we're not gonna fall, no, Babylon is never gonna breach our walls. Um, and they just double down and they just, you know, uh rely on tribalism. And the Lord is constantly saying, No, uh Babylon will get its own just desserts in in the end. But it is bringing a judgment against you. And I just think at times at times the church needs to look at the world and say, You are more righteous than we are, and you're bringing a judgment against us that is totally deserved, and all we can do is hold up our hands and say we have been in the wrong. Um and so um so when it comes to like abuse scandals, the warfare mentality says, Well, other people are just as bad. Um the exile mentality says, um, this is God's judgment, and we uh grieve and we we own the evil that we have done. And we have hope that God God will bring restitution and justice and judgment um in in the end of all things. But the exile mentality means that the world can bring critique against us and we don't always have to deflect it. Um and so and and with the bullying thing, so with the James Macdonald issue. Um I've I I've known that Christians have come into church meetings that we've had. Um and this this hasn't happened at my particular church, but I I know lots of churches where this has happened, where people have have for the first time been you know co-opted onto PCC or something or some some church council meeting.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And they've been absolutely appalled by the way that Christians so speak to one another because they're used to a professional environment where people, you know, are actually civil with one another. And they come into a church environment and they're like, Oh my goodness, like, you would get fired. You know. Yeah. If you worked for PCC if if you work for, you know, Price Waterhouse Coopers and you spoke to people the way you speak to Christians, you'd be fired. You know, and I think sometimes the world needs to come in and and give us a good slapping. Um and it can be right for the world to come in and give us a slapping, and we need to to put our hands up and say, Yeah, we are we are in the wrong, and Babylon is in the right in this instance. Um So uh Bill Lovell uh has said, um Al Mola shows himself to be a man of integrity, but how sad to read about Mahaney and the rush to protect him at the expense of victims. Yeah, that's that's absolutely right. Um and that's what I mean that's what I mean by truth over tribalism. Um when my tribe is accused of something, everything in me wants to rush to defend myself, my tribe, my mate. Um actually what we need to do is is to honour the truth. Because that's the other thing about um what the Lord says to Israel while they're in uh exile in Babylon is okay, seventy years. It's just seventy years, and then the Lord will bring about restitution, and he will restore your fortunes. And I think that gives you the hope um to actually love Babylon, and that g not to be like Babylon, but to love Babylon and and to acknowledge whatever's wrong about yourself, because in seventy years the Lord's gonna restore your fortunes, and that's gonna be okay. And if we take our eyes off that perspective as well, then the here and now becomes everything. And so I I I just need to fight my own corner and and just fortify my own position. Um So these are some thoughts that I'm having at the moment uh about these scandals, and these scandals are to our shame, and uh and we need to do uh what Rachel Den Hollander says grief and repentance and silence to learn. Um because as Jesus says, you know, it would be better, it would be better for a millstone to be tied around your neck than for anyone to harm the little children. Uh and our determination to protect the children does not end when they are born. Our determination to protect all life uh means that we protect all the vulnerable, whether they're in the womb or out of the womb. And therefore, whether it's an Anpharay who wants to end the life of the unborn, or whether it's uh a Christian leader who has been harming the little ones, uh, we need to stand against those evildoers. Uh we need to grieve and repent and have the silence to learn. Here endeth the lesson. Um yes, lots lots more comments um lots more comments going on in the uh uh in the comments of Facebook and um we'd love to get to those uh as we continue uh discussing things this afternoon. Uh I'm just putting a link to the Rachel Den Hollander tweet uh in the comments. But uh I think that'll do us for now. Um But uh for those who did not uh who did not come in at the very beginning of the live cast, uh we have uh we have a very exciting new video for you. And uh here is it's not it's not a premiere anymore, but uh it's the second ever showing of uh I will survive the unborn disco featuring Anforady. So and that's it, then we're gone, are we? I think so. I think so. So so do be sharing us and all that. Whatever, it's just we're gonna go sidle off like speaklife.org.uk slash give if you want to give uh towards this uh towards this live cast and um yeah. Foundry. The foundry, oh yeah. Who wants to join us? Of course you do. Um we're gonna start up uh an internship September. Come down to Eastbourne Sunshine Coast, we'll study together, we'll go on mission together, you can come to Warwick and Southampton and wherever else we're going, and we'll produce resources like you know, like the one you're about to see.
SPEAKER_08So uh And you can spend hours looking at a a baby on a screen trying to animate its mouth. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I'll just put a link to thespefoundry.com, speaklifefoundry.com in the comments, and uh we love to hear from you. Applications are open, uh, we've had some great uh people apply. We want to have five or six come and join us. So uh could you be one of those, or do you know somebody who'd like to join us? Sweet. Could we? Well, that'll do it. This is like the worst sign-off ever.
SPEAKER_08Are we actually gonna say bye? Oh, we better say that, and then it's like, here we go. Are we going? You sure we're going. Like, we are gonna go. Here's the video. Take care, bye. Bye.
SPEAKER_02You might see me as being responsible for the murder of 70,000 women, but really? Because if you really thought I was responsible for the murder of 70,000 people, I don't think we'd be debating in this particular way. So I too believe that from the time Egg is fertilized, that a human life is there. I don't believe it's a life that has the same value of the life that knows that it's alive.
SPEAKER_03When first I stopped already, I was petrified. Through her must be decide. Then I spent some many nights, digestation to prolong, and I grew strong. I became twelve inches long, now I'm unique. Money for weeks. I should be safe from my a thoughts. That's coming after me. Would deny my physic worth, so you could kill me after first, but I survived. I will survive. If I can get executed roll, I have the right life. I've got all my left gifts, I got all my left live, I will survive.
SPEAKER_01I will survive. What about your favorite channel collection? It should always be down to the woman.
SPEAKER_02Make the decision to herself.
SPEAKER_03Go and let's go! What's up the bath and make the stable being welcome and mark?
SPEAKER_05I will start the bath!
SPEAKER_02The point of an abortion is to terminate the pregnancy, to end the pregnancy without there being a live birth. A life birth is not a good one. It really isn't anybody who's who's who's concerned.