The Speak Life Podcast, sharing Jesus in everyday life.
SPEAKER_05Just watching some YouTube videos. Here's an adorable little girl. I wonder what this ad's about. Oh, she's gorgeous. Oh those blue eyes. Oh. She deserves to be loved. Sure. I mean it's a strange choice of words there, but yeah. She deserves to be loved, I guess. She deserves to be wanted. Strange choice of words. I'll go with it. Oh, how adorable. She deserves to be a choice. Okay. A choice. Getting that queasy feeling again. I don't know. Good thing I've got these rainy rapees. Now, let me get this right. If we choose to want to love her, she deserves to live. But if we choose not to want to love her, then um. I just had an idea. Oh, Lucy! Lucy! Oh, there you are. Sunshine of my love. My sun, moon, and stars. Lucy! I want to show you how much I love you. I want to show you how I love you more than all the other boys and girls. You are a choice, Lucy. Wendy! Wendy! There you are. Wendy, I want you to know I've made a choice. Lucy, behold my love. Why are you crying? Here. Have an antacid.
SPEAKER_07Hello, welcome to the Live Canvas.
SPEAKER_05For the first time ever. Live on YouTube. YouTube! Oh my goodness me. Facebook is down, and I've never felt more free. It's a beautiful feeling. Imagine if Twitter went down as well. Like I would just like the weight would just slink off my shoulders. I would run through the streets. What is that?
SPEAKER_07Eureka, what is that? TV program where someone's just like, we're free. We're free. What's that? What is it?
SPEAKER_05I don't know.
SPEAKER_07Definitely something similar.
SPEAKER_05Okay, yeah, yeah. I don't need to be hunched over my smartphone. I'm I'm liberated. Um so yeah, Facebook sloss is YouTube's gain, and this is our first YouTube live. And uh come say hello on uh on YouTube.
SPEAKER_07I can't, I've got no way of knowing on here. Oh, it says five. Seven. Oh, mine says five. I got seven watching. Oh well they clearly have tuned in for you, Glenn. How does that work?
SPEAKER_05Maybe you count twice or something. Um so yeah, nice to see you on YouTube, and we will post this on Facebook later. But uh love to love to get your comments on YouTube. Who wants to be our first YouTube commenter on a YouTube live video? Ever. Yeah. Come on. Make history. Make history, people. But now someone's thinking it's better be good. Yeah, better say something astonishing. But uh we should say eight people are watching. It's crazy. It's exciting.
SPEAKER_07I mean, the the the issue is that in the what has it been 20 minutes, 30 minutes since we should have been live, yeah, m now everything we planned for has gone out of my head. Out of your head. So we've got one comment. Neil Coleman just says not me.
SPEAKER_05Clever. Clever Neil. I like it. I like it. Um so you may have noticed uh we had our monologue, um, which was yet another response to a pro-abortion ad that's been out for a while. Yeah. But it had a second wind recently. Uh I saw it on Twitter maybe like a week ago. And uh describe, describe to us, Paul, what that original YouTube ad was all about.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, so the original ad really uh starts off with this, you know, it's just the Brahms lullaby, you know, lovely, nice little bit of music. I love that you knew that it was Brahms. Yeah, well. And you love that you knew that it was Brahms to be. Uh so Brahms lullaby and uh this little baby girl on the screen, and the words come up, she deserves to be loved, and you're kind of like, oh yeah, of course. Then you're back to the little girl gurgling and giggling, and she deserves to be wanted. Yeah, beautiful, lovely, okay. Yeah. Um and more giggling, beautiful baby girl. Then up comes the girl again. She deserves to be a choice.
SPEAKER_05A choice.
SPEAKER_07And then Hashtag stand with PP, stand with planned parenthood.
SPEAKER_05And at that stage, we're kind of we're busting out the antacids and my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. Especially because she's such a cute little girl, like how audacious to put the face of the child on the video and then to say, Well, we we we chose to want to love her.
SPEAKER_07Well, you know, it's a lot of people commented because it did do a rounds again on Twitter, and you know, people were commenting and saying, It's one thing, you know, not a good thing, but it's one thing to to talk of children in the womb that you can't really see, you know, that are in a sense the faceless from us. Right. To talk about them in the in those kind of terms, to put a baby on the screen and use that kind of language. I mean, the only thing I was heartened by was the response to it on YouTube, which uh I think it had like 94 likes and about five thousand dislikes. Six point five thousand dislikes. Yes. You just thought, my goodness me, like humanity is still out there somewhere. Like Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I commented on it, and it uh it appears to my channel as though I'm the only comment on it. Yeah, it was weird, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_07Because it doesn't look like comments are disabled, but nobody had commented on it at all, which is surprising because everyone's got something to say on YouTube. Except Neil Coleman, obviously. Not me.
SPEAKER_05Not me. So yeah, so so in response to that uh uh pro-abortion ad, um we've done kind of two different takes on it, two different responses to it. Last night we released something that was more of a horror, and I guess um today with the monologue we've attempted something that's more like comedy. Um so but I guess then the question comes, well, if if you attempt comedy about the most serious issue ever, I mean it is the greatest genocide imaginable, about about a billion babies aborted in the last hundred years. Um yeah, why it why make comedy about it? Is that is that is it is making comedy the same thing as making light of something?
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um and I think the answer to that is no. I th I think that actually you can you can make comedy out of something that is very serious and you can make a serious point out of something. Um even playing it for laughs. Um and my my argument would be that that actually the Bible does this quite a bit, and that actually um in terms of logical arguments, um you how's your Latin, Paul? Is it uh up to up to it? Oh phenomenal. Okay, phenomenal. So So within uh logical arguments there's something called a reductio ad absurdum, which um your your schoolboy Latin renders reducing to absurdity.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, okay, there we go. Yeah. So Latin's good there. Benefits of a classical education. Hey, the the school system in Wales is uh Oh yeah, I mean it was up there, I mean, behind it was probably the second language behind Welsh, obviously, Latin.
SPEAKER_05And then Latin. And then English, maybe. Yeah, English is my second language, so that's my that's my excuse for everything. But uh so reducing something to absurdity is something that the Bible kind of does all the time, and it even does that to very serious things. So, for instance, in Job, you've got the you know, this epic poem about Job the sufferer, and towards the end of Job, he gets a bit of a he ahead of himself and starts to cast himself as though he's God, and then God actually shows up and sort of says, So where were you exactly when I stretched out the heavens? And where were you when I, you know, made the horse head nebulae? Tell me if you know, Job. He's he's reducing Job's sort of argument to absurdity, and uh you think of uh other things like um Solomon, uh, in in order for Solomon to make his wise pronouncement about the two mothers and which child is the living child and which child is the dead child, is like, I know, let's just cut the living child in two and see what happens, right? Which is like in one sense, that's funny. Like it's it's kind of played for laughs, it's like, oh fine, okay, let's let's go harvest then. Yep. Bring me a sword. And of course that flushes out the real mother, and and so the wisdom of Solomon is proved, but but he's doing a Reductio ad absurdum, or Elijah in 1 Kings 18, um, you know, there he is saying to the dumb idol Baal, um, you know, where are you?
SPEAKER_07Maybe your God is asleep. Maybe he's on the toilet. Maybe your God's on the toilet.
SPEAKER_05Um not not very genteel of the prophet. Um and and then you come into the New Testament and Jesus everywhere is reducing things to absurdity. Um and and he's sort of you know, like like with the Pharisees, he said that they're so fastidious about everyone else's morality and not their own. They're like, you know, they're like tutting eye doctors who are worried about the speck in your eye, when all the while they've got a plank of wood in their own eye. That's that's an absurd image. It's it's you know, or or the rich, you could, you know, you can get a rich man into heaven the day you can get a camel through the eye of a needle. Like, he's actually being funny there. He's actually using comedy. Um and and you know, and and he's actually using comedy to make serious points. Like with the f with the Pharisees in Matthew chapter 23, they're like whitewashed tombs, um, they are the blind leading the blind. Again, he's he's using absurd images uh to make serious points. And then, of course, there's there's the example of the Apostle Paul in Galatians 5, who is arguing with the circumcision sect and saying, Well, look, if you think circumcision makes you holier, then go for it, lads. Go the whole hog. Go the whole hog. Um and in a sense, you know, he's he's playing it for last, but making a very serious point. So I I would say that there there is a time and a place for confronting the shocking logic of the pro-abortion lobby with horror. And I think there's a time and a place for approaching it with comedy, but that's not the same as making light of it. That's that's my kind of that's my kind of argument. I don't know what people think.
SPEAKER_07Sure, and I mean we we talked uh we thought a little bit as well, didn't we, about the you know, applying that that logic. I mean the in in the video you do apply that logic with the the toddlers or the children, and you can apply the same idea at the other end of the scale, can't you? Right affect those who are no longer loved or wanted. Right. Do we just get rid of them, you know, so go around our care homes and and sometimes it's just exposing those things, isn't it? So and and if you can do it in a way like that's uh kind of engaging but you know I'm sure some people the it well we we can talk about a bit more when we think about the other one, but people will be outraged.
SPEAKER_05But Yeah. With the children. If if it's all about being a choice and someone should be really thrilled that they are they were chosen not to be, you know, torn to pieces with forceps. Oh how how you know how kind of us not to not to tear Lucy to pieces with forceps, but instead to tear Wendy to pieces. We we could play we could play kind of duck duck dismembered. Um going round the children, duck duck duck duck duck dismembered and then they fall down or something. I don't know. That would be um and aga yeah, it's it is and and and at times I th I do think we need to to laugh with horror at the horrific logic um of an abortion mill that basically says we love some and we express that love by actually eliminating those who we don't choose. It's just it's it's horrific. And and sometimes um sometimes you burst that bubble with comedy, and sometimes you burst that bubble by by showing the horror of it. And I guess that's what we tried to do last night with our response video. Um should we talk about it first or have a look at it first? What do you think? Uh what are we probably just look at it first, you think? Let's have a look at last night's response video.
SPEAKER_00And I do mean hard, and I'll pop the leg about that big, which you put down on the table next to you. Reach in again, pull again, pull out an arm about the same length, which you put down on the table next to you. And use this instrument again and again to tear out the spine, the intestines, the heart and lungs. Hit on the baby that size is about the size of a large plum. You can't see it, but you pretty good idea you got it if you've got your instrument around something and your fingers are spread about as far as they go. You know you did it right. If you crush down on the instrument and white material runs out of the cervix, that was the baby's brains. And you can pull out skull pieces. You have a day like I had a lot of time. Sometimes a little face comes back and stares back at you. Congratulations, you just successfully performed a second trimester deini abortion. You just affirmed your right to choose.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, much more so. But I mean and and it is it is kind of obviously, yeah, there's no playing it for laughs there. Um But it is still shocking. Um but I think you know, I think there's a there is a place for being shocking. Um because actually what what we what was on there, there's there's nothing well I mean we didn't show anything there for a start. But um that's it's simply a description. Um but there is a place to be to be shocking. I think 'cause I think it's obvious as you look at some of the faces of the people on that video who are sitting there, you get the sense that there is a good number of them who probably had no idea about what the procedure is. Right. And I know lots of people who I've spoken to have got no idea what the procedure is. Right. Um I know you I think you mentioned on your interview it was either with John Wyatt or with Callum Mill. Callan Miller. You're reading out the Wikipedia description and there's someone saying that absolutely can't be true. That's not what happens.
SPEAKER_05Uh Wikipedia is not known for being propaganda for the pro-life member.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, sure. So I think when you I mean all all that's happening there is is a guy who I mean that guy, Dr. Anthony Davitino, who he said he did something like twelve hundred abortions in his lifetime um before kind of coming to a point where he he changed kind of his ways. I mean, there's someone who knows the process. He's just explaining simply what the process was, a process that he had done many, many times. And as you listen to it, you can see people are shocked and sickened by it.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_07Um, and I mean the response, I've not seen any real negative response to the video so far, it's not been out that long. Uh but I remember when we went to Brefos, like someone said like people are outraged by sometimes the images or like things like that, the description. And I mean the uh the irony is that people are out more outraged by someone getting up and just saying this is what happens and this is what it looks like than they are by the actual practice itself. Right. Right. So they're scandalized that you would stand up and say this is what abortion is.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um, but they're not scandalised by abortion itself. Itself, right. Which is the most bizarre thing. Yeah. But I think, you know, there is a place for shock, and you know, maybe we'll get there in some of our other videos as well, but you know, we've talked about the use of images over the centuries and you know the way images have have changed public opinion when people have seen things. Yeah, yeah. So there is a value in it. I mean, I think you've gotta you've gotta kind of be as I mean y I suppose you can you can get it wrong, I suppose. Yeah. You can you can definitely get it wrong, but there's a place for it. Yeah. And I mean I think particularly with the issue of abortion, I mean, li when you're showing images of abortion or just describing it, you're simply showing or describing a practice that is legal in the country. You know. Right. And when people, you know, other people say, Oh, it's just a health thing or whatever, you know, it's a health issue. Why should the pictures of that or description of the process be any more shocking or sickening than me talking about you know having a kidney transplant?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_07But people don't get the same kind of screamishness about it.
SPEAKER_05Especially when like on BBC Prime Time you'll watch Silent Witness, which is just like set in a morgue and they they they chop up bodies all the time.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But they won't show an abortion. You know. Like, yeah. And and when you think about like the liberation of the concentration camps after World War II, um, one of the things that the Allies did was make the village that was close to Dachau or close to Auschwitz make those citizens who knew kind of what was going on in the death camps, and their economy was based on it, but they didn't quite know what was going on. They made them go into cinemas and watch film of the cleanup operation in in those death camps and the the the piles of dead bodies. And there is there is footage of a camera that was pointed the other way at the audience, just sort of covering their eyes, covering their face. But they thought it was important that people saw the horror of what was going on and and that we couldn't make any steps forward without people acknowledging the horror of what had been. And how much more is that the case when we're not beyond the concentration camps? Yep. You know, they're they're going on and people people need to people need to see and people need to know what's what's going on.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05So there are ways of doing it, and I'm sure we will get it wrong, um, but I uh I'm also quite sure that we won't get anywhere on this issue, which is the the greatest genocide history has ever seen. We won't get anywhere unless we're actually dealing in truth. Um and unless you can name what's going on and think about it for what it actually is, you can't make any progress.
SPEAKER_07And I think, you know, the i shining light on something that's in the you know on the dark um is definitely a d definitely a good thing, isn't it? And and I think, you know, the one thing that works in our favour on an issue like abortion is that because it is legal you you I think you should be able to s when people kind of get up in arms about seeing stuff about it, you can just say, Well, why why are you up in arms? This is just legal s this is something legal in our country. You know, there are plenty of other legal things you have no issue. Why do you find this so abhorrent? It's not like this is a a a kind of hidden well, it is hidden, but I mean it's not a um it's not a forbidden practice, you know, that um people don't want to uh kind of ever come to light. It's something that everybody knows goes on and most people just kind of get on with their lives. So it it works in our favour in a sense that it's it's legal, I think. Yeah. Because you can just be like, well, you know, you you're you're happily letting this go on, so why you know, why have any issue with looking at it? Yeah. And the fact is people do have issue with looking at it, and I think that shows that we know it's not right. Yeah. You know, it's something deep in us. You know, like like I say, they're not it's not the same when you see the the kidney being removed, you know. Even if you're a bit screamish. Yeah. You're not sitting there going, Oh, this makes me feel like morally uncomfortable. Right. You know. No, no, no, this isn't it. This is abhorrent.
SPEAKER_05This is sickening and disgust. Yeah. Um it goes to a moral abhorrence. Um why are we talking about this issue? Um, because you know, we're we're a charity that exists to lift up the name of Jesus, and that's that's entirely what we want to do, and we want people to meet Jesus. Um so why why do we talk about this kind of social issue, this moral issue, um when actually what we want to do is is tell the good news of Jesus to the world. Do you do you have an answer to that?
SPEAKER_07Sure. Uh yeah, well, I mean, I think uh I mean we've we've talked on previous ones, haven't we, about um uh how the Bible, if we had taken a biblical view, I mean it would be very hard to to um make the Bible supportive of abortion. I mean Psalm 139, obviously a very kind of clear bit, but you've got John the Baptist being in his in uh Elizabeth's womb, Jesus obviously in Mary's womb, um and so So I think, you know, actually we we we see from the Bible that these are these are lives, these are human lives. And you know, we should want to stand against you know this kind of evil um that is going on.
SPEAKER_05Um I think also like if we uh if we're preaching that the world is under judgment and that God is really angry at a world that is gone to hell, so to speak. Um, you know, so Romans 1 talks about the wrath of God being revealed from heaven against all the ungodliness and of of of people who suppress the truth in their unrighteousness. Is that really the case? And would God really be so angry with us and why on earth would he be? And and actually actually I f I find that if if you're committed to preaching a gospel that says, hey, we really are in trouble. We really need the Son of God to come and redeem us, save us, because otherwise we are stuck in this hellishness that goes on forever and it's called hell. Um like if we really believe that, so often that is part of the gospel, right? That that is part of what we we proclaim to the world that when Jesus came, he came as an answer to hell, right? To actual hell. Um And so often the the response I get when I just preach that, you know, just let's just preach the gospel. So I preach that message, and that is part of the message, and people will then say, really? Like, really? Is the world really that sick? Is the world really that hellish? Is God really that angry? What a petty God to be so angry at at the world like this. Um and so actually I I've found it more and more an organic part of what I'm saying to people, this is more in face-to-face conversation, but but more and more when people are having an issue with the judgment question, just to be able to say, yeah, we are killing two hundred thousand babies a year has like does that make you angry? And if it doesn't, that's i it's not it's not a it's not that there's something wrong with God that is angry at this world. If we're not angry, there's something wrong with us.
SPEAKER_07Well, and I think as well, like a reason we should talk about it is is like you say, 'cause people should be angry about it, but it's kind of it's not on people's agendas in some way. So like so so I would say I it's I mean it seems mind-boggling, but there's probably plenty of Christians out there who who are putting more of their time and effort into getting rid of plastic straws than they are stopping babies being killed. Right. Which, you know, I'm not saying we shouldn't be working towards good, you know, good environmental issues. Yep. But I'd kind of say, look, you know, if if if you had a gun to your head, which one's gonna be the one you're gonna try and sort out here? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05And there is a gun to her head.
SPEAKER_07So can we sort of and and you know, the Bible and and and you know, we see God's heart all through the Bible, uh for the oppressed and for the vulnerable and stuff, and there's no one more oppressed and vulnerable than the unborn.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_07Um, and we ought to. I mean it's a different th there's there's I think in some ways maybe I've changed my thinking on stuff, because there's a lot of time I think there's a lot of Christians or my opinion would have been there are a lot of Christians who spend a lot of time trying to make the world adhere to Christian values. Um basically just ending up being pretty much just moralists a lot of the time, I would say. Um and I've always kind of thought, well, you know, where do you balance that? So so you might so if I give you an example of what I'm talking about, I'm thinking more of the Christian I'm thinking more of the Christians who seem to be spending a lot of their time writing letters, um, complaining that supermarket Easter eggs don't say Easter on them anymore. Right. You know. Right. Um quite frankly, I couldn't give them monkeys. Um and I think I've said it on here before, you know, if you didn't rest until every Easter egg under the sun bore the word Easter, no one would be any nearer the kingdom for it. Um important that chocolate eggs maintain their place at the at the heart of our faith. So but then you kind of think, okay, but then there were people, there have been Christians who've spoken up on moral issues, like the issue of things like slavery. Yeah. And you think, well, actually m that that was something we're speaking about. So how do you weigh what is and what is it, and what what stuff do you let slide as kind of this is just society and we can never expect them to adhere to you know Christian ways and other th and what are the other things. I think you know, if there was ever anything which was pretty much clear cut, you'd say it was probably one of this issue, you know. Yeah that we should we should speak up about this. Yeah. Um particularly when you see the parallels as we've talked about between it and and things like you know, the Holocaust and the concentration camps, you you'd say, well you we would want to speak up about that, wouldn't we? Even if the church I mean, but we see how the church failed at the time. Yeah. You know, so that was it the confessing church that basically just fell in line with the Nazis and then of course the confessing were the the good guys.
SPEAKER_05There we go. Okay, so the national the German National Church was stickers in the churches and the things.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, exactly. And so you can see how even in those situations some people just went with the the flow. Yeah. Um the danger is that we're and and so I look at that and you just think, how could they have done that? That's like abhorrent that the church would do that. But yet you look at us now and you go, well, but we're not really going with the flow, we're just doing nothing. Like we it's like we're even aw unaware the flow's going, yeah, you know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um so we are going with the flow, I suppose, but um, but I think I think there there's gotta be a there's gotta be a gospel way of of coming at it. And and I don't know, I mean we're kind of new to this and new to producing media on this issue and new to speaking into this issue, and there's lots of people with with lots more wisdom than us that but it seems to me like there's two places I want to go when I start thinking about this issue, and one of them's Christmas and one of them's Easter. And you know, at Christmas we remember that Jesus, the Son of the Father, became our brother when he was conceived by the Holy Spirit born of the Virgin Mary. So, like right there at the heart of the creed, right there at the heart of the gospel, is that the Son of God became an embryo, became a single cell in Mary's womb. And he became an embryo for all embryos. He became a fetus for all fetuses, he became an infant for all infants, and a teenager for all teenagers, and a man for all men. So Jesus actually the heart of the incarnation is that actually he embraces and loves and wants to redeem and is for the embryo, right? And and and from the point of conception. And so therefore, like how do we know that God loves the world? Well, God so loved the world he gave his one and only son. How do we know that God loves the unborn? Well, he was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary. Like he became the unborn. My goodness. So, you know, how do how do we how do we even think about this issue? Well, Christmas is at the heart of it, and then Easter is at the heart of it because 1 Corinthians 1 says that, you know, while we might prize power and wisdom, God prizes the despised things and the weak things and the things that are not, because he prizes Christ and Him crucified. And and I think it's just so interesting on the abortion issue that what we always want to say is the unborn, they're not really humans. This is the the pro-choice argument. They're not really humans because they're not powerful enough and they're not wise enough, right? They don't have the they're not independent enough to be able to stand on their own two feet in this world, and they don't have the mental capacity to be, you know, deemed as fellow members of the human race. And it's it's entirely this this Greek argument from 1 Corinthians 1, we we are into power, we are into wisdom. And so surely the people of the cross should be the people who stand alongside the weak and the despised things and the things that are not, the shameful, the the the things that look foolish and powerless um are entirely the things that God loves and wants to lift up. Um so I I think as we as we focus on Christmas and Easter, I think hopefully we can have a gospel shape to what it is that we say on this issue. Um but yeah, I think there is there is still a like a question of are we just being moralists as we talk about this? And one argument against that is like, well when it comes to gen genocide, I think I'll risk being called a moralist. Um but then that then there is that that positive question. Yeah, how do we positively preach the gospel in and through this issue? And uh yeah, we'd love to hear what you guys think on that issue. Twenty people are now watching on YouTube. This is as many as we get on Facebook. Yeah, yeah. Ah, forget Facebook. See you later, Facebook. YouTube is our new jam. Um so yeah, I'm sure we'll return uh to this issue in the future. But um if you've been struck by either of our videos that we've released in the last 24 hours, uh last night's um uh Dr. Levitino video and then uh today's uh monologue video, then uh we're releasing them independently and get sharing and see what kind of conversations you get into on Facebook and YouTube, and uh yeah, we'd love to be a part of that conversation. Yeah. Great. Well, um in terms of things that are in the news, uh, you know, we we always try to address you know the the day, the trending hashtags and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Um and we always we have to mention Jordan Peterson, obviously. Baby P.
SPEAKER_04Ding!
SPEAKER_05Yeah so uh done. Okay. So we've checked the Jordan Peterson box. But there's one thing, there's one thing, Paul, that I don't think we've ever really addressed.
SPEAKER_07Not at all, and that's surprising, really, given the prevalence of it of this society today.
SPEAKER_05We've never said anything about Brexit. No, we've not. Because we're cowards, people. We're cowards. Um I like to I like to think that it's because we're we're so very wise and cautious and guarded, and we want to set a uh you know a guard over our mouth so that we don't say anything too foolish. Um you know, you might be surprised to learn that uh here on the live cast we we we want to say things only that we we know something about. We want to say things that uh that don't cause unnecessary offense. Obviously, you know, things that we say we'll should have run through these with me before we started. We want to at least be able to pretend some knowledge to some of the issues that we talk about. So we we want to show that we know something about an issue, we want we want to speak, not you know, w without causing unnecessary offense, and we want to be able to speak on something with biblical wisdom. Um and so we've be we've been putting our heads together, you know, really I mean, ever since June 23rd, 2016, really, trying to trying to think.
SPEAKER_07Before I even worked here. We were on this one. We're just thinking about Brexit the whole time.
SPEAKER_05How can we speak about it knowledgeably? How can we speak about it without causing unnecessary offense? Uh, how can we speak about it with biblical wisdom? And uh I think over the course of the last 18 months we've we've put together some thoughts. And uh so, ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, I'd I'd like to uh share with you our Brexit wisdom. There it is.
SPEAKER_06That's great.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I mean I don't want to overreach on that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_07I mean I mean that sums up my feelings. I'll be honest though, I was uh I was I was driving to work this morning and I was listening to uh Radio 4 in the car now. Okay. Um of Radio Four? I know. Oh man. I know, hit that stage. Um it'll be five live next. It's fine between eight and nine. Uh you just don't want to hit any of the dramas in the middle of the day. That's a bad thing. And I was just thinking, like, all they're talking about is Brexit all the time. I was like, I'm so fed up of this. Okay. Although, like, literally, I mean, what's it gonna be like when we're done? We'll never be done. It's like the Hotel California. You can check out of the EU. You can never leave. You can never leave. That's just like all they're talking about is Brexit the whole time. Ever since I started listening to Radio 4, in that slot eight or nine, it's been nothing apart from Brexit, Brexit, Brexit. Yeah, yeah. And I'm I just I'm just fed up with it now. I need they I mean other news. Yeah. You know? I don't know if it's the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do. I don't even care anymore. Just lost the will to live on that one.
SPEAKER_05I think you're speaking for a whole nation there.
SPEAKER_07Nobody knows.
SPEAKER_05I mean If there is a people's vote, that should be the third box. Really? Lost. Yeah. Please just decide something.
SPEAKER_07And you know, the government's just for you know, one day they're saying oh Theresa May, you know, lots of support, and then the next day they're saying all the ministers have resigned, and then you know, I think like next week, I think I can't do live cast next week because I think I'm shadow Brexit. I think I'm doing Brexit. It's my turn to be Brexit. Yeah, you've been called up. Yeah, between two and four. Um so like flipping a it's just an absolute nightmare, isn't it? So and I've got no real biblical wisdom on it. So no wisdom at all. No.
SPEAKER_05None. So when you pass it th yeah, pass it through the filters of do we know something about it? Can we speak without causing unnecessary offense? No. No. That's the big that that's kind of the big problem for me anyway. And then uh can we speak with biblical wisdom? Well, we we might have a go. Someone's commented. Um Andrew Shore is watching from on holiday in Japan. Hello. It's eleven at night there. Brilliant. Weird. And DJ DJ321, why are you called 321? Is it is it because is it because it was when he was trying to find the name.
SPEAKER_07Or it could be a she. Oh she DJ DJ1. Oh, someone's got that. DJ DJ2. Oh man.
SPEAKER_05All the way up to 321. Anyway, DJ DJ321 said, it's because the Facebook didn't work for me. It didn't work for us either. That's why we're here. And DJ DJ321 has just said, sorry, no. And it's a she. Well, hello. She's a she. She yeah, great. About to make a pronoun joke, but thought, no. We prayed, we prayed for wisdom. Said no nothing that would cause offense. That's really not learned. No pronoun jokes. Um although um we'll we'll talk in a second about uh in Crowbra, so we just did an outreach to Crowbra, which uh um All Saints Crowborough is uh is where Paul goes, and uh there was a a whole week and a weekend, and there was a couple there who kind of came to faith around about the time when I went up and preached two and a half years ago. Yeah. And I preached on 321 then. And so that became important for them. And then just the other day, um they became Christians, and and then lots of stuff has happened, and we might talk about that, but but then uh they entered into this like Tombola like bingo raffle thing.
SPEAKER_07Gambling. Well, I think it was for char it was for charity, man.
SPEAKER_05It was for charity. Um and there's discipleship issues, obviously the work out, you know, it takes time. But but they got given a ticket and it was 3-2-1 and They won! They won with 3-2-1. It's a sign. Um Why did I mention that? I don't know. Because of because of DJ DJ 32. DJ DJ one.
SPEAKER_07That's it, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_05Um for those listening on the podcast, they've got no hope, do they? Andy, will it will will they have heard even the the wind blowing when we had the uh the tumbleweeds blowing through for the Brexit wisdom? We don't know.
SPEAKER_04We don't know.
SPEAKER_07Well, in case I didn't hear that, now you now you know there were tumbleweeds. There were tumbleweeds. So we're just explaining that for you now so you can enjoy every moment of this podcast. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So yeah, I mean with with Brez Brexit is there Is there biblical wisdom? Well well, I mean one thing it does is it it certainly um it certainly pricks any bubble you might have of thinking that political answers are any kind of hope for the human race. Does anyone think that's a very important thing? Well Well we kind of do because we we we put these people in p in position and then we wait for them to make a mistake and then we and then we absolutely unleash on them all our disappointments that this person was not the Messiah. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So and and and so what's helpful in one sense about the the omni shambles that is Brexit is is that like everyone is culpable. Like like you've got this David Cameron figure who, you know, calls calls the referendum and then loses and then he's off out and he's kind of enjoying pims in uh in the Cotswolds and I don't know what David David Cameron's doing, but um and then you know and then you've got you know the you've got the pro-Brexit, you know, people who aren't really, you know, stepping up to the plate. You've got Boris like Boris. And you've got Teresa who's, you know, doing her best but doesn't believe in Brexit and is kind of forced through a non-Brexit Brexit. And and and the whole time the E I mean the the thing that I think might cause unnecessary offence, but here here goes anyway, is like surely the EU are not covering themselves in glory in the way that they're they're sort of transacting this. Uh in wh i in what sense? In i in terms of the these punitive like like costs that they are imposing on Britain for like why why why can't we go our own way? Sorry, you know.
SPEAKER_07How many I think I'd be the same. If you were the same thing, I think I'd just be like, you know, why should I if you're gonna stuff this up for everyone else for the other twenty-seven odd nations, yeah. Why why why wouldn't I make it as difficult for you as possible, you know? I can totally understand it to be honest.
SPEAKER_05But but I think that then reveals its hand as as really wanting to be this European superstate that is not content to shrink ever, and only ever content to grow in size. Which is precisely why people voted Brexit. It's like I I've got this funny feeling that the EU wants to be this massive superstate that's that you know increasingly, you know, takes over. Yeah. They kind of voted against it. And then yeah, the EU has proved itself to be kind of that.
SPEAKER_07I don't think we know why people voted Brexit though, because uh everyone had different reasons, didn't they? I don't think there's I don't think there's kind of one overwhelming consensus as to what it was, because some people talked about sovereignty and some people talked about immigration and racism.
SPEAKER_05It can only possibly be because of racism. That's you know, that's one theory. Um not not a theory that uh I uh subscribe to, but yeah, so I but I don't think anyone is covered in glory um on this on this issue. And so does it does it not then It actually makes people look a lot more locally, I think, for their for their answers rather than looking for you know, we we we thought that Westminster might have been the place to see change happen in the world. We thought that Brussels might have been the place to see change in the world. And actually, you know, it it might force us to just clean up our rooms and you know set set our world in perfect order before criticising the world, you know.
SPEAKER_07So vote JBP for next Peterson for president. Prime Minister, eh? But but I love this quick this comment here from DJ DJ 321. My sister asked me what Brexit is last week, and she wasn't joking. I explained it was the UK leaving the EU, twitchy replied, Oh, is that still going on? Yeah, I know how she feels.
SPEAKER_05Exactly. Man. Exactly. Well that's so that's our Brexit wisdom. Um should we should we play should we play it again just in case people missed it the first time around? Brexit wisdom.
unknownOh, there it is.
SPEAKER_05Brexit opinion.
SPEAKER_07Brexit opinion Theresa's just longing for those fields of wheat again, you know, you back there. There it is. Happy times.
SPEAKER_05This is why you tune in to the live cast for our incisive political commentary. Oh dear. Brilliant. Well, um, if you do enjoy our incisive political commentary, and and if you uh enjoy our outreach into this online space, uh we are putting on a foundry. I don't know putting on is not the right word. We're establishing a foundry where we forge evangelists and evangelistic resources to bless the church and reach the world. And we've got an opportunity starting in September 2019 for people to come study with us, go on mission with us, produce resources together with us. And we've got a little clip we've put together, uh, which we hope might uh get you excited about coming and joining us in September 2019. With the Speak Life Foundry, we want to forge evangelists and evangelistic resources to bless the church and reach the world. Why not come join us? We will study together, go on mission together, and produce resources together that will reach this online space. YouTube has 1.8 billion monthly users. Facebook has 2.3 billion monthly users. If they were countries, they would be the biggest countries on planet earth. But who are the missionaries? Come to us and let's forge this missionary activity together that will reach this online space and make a noise for Jesus.
SPEAKER_03It'll be great to have you join us as we learn together how to project manage the whole creative process from scripting, coming up with ideas, filming and editing. We'll be working together as a team, developing some incredible resources.
SPEAKER_05And we want to train you theologically. Jesus said that we'll be fruitful as we abide in the vine, as we spend time with Christ in his word. And so we want to spend time having a robust, Trinitarian, Christ-centered theology that will stand us in good stead to produce all these great world-reaching resources. We're starting in September 2019 down here in Eastbourne.
SPEAKER_02And if that sounds exciting, then come and join us. Fill out the form below and get in touch.
SPEAKER_05Brilliant. So go to speaklifefoundry.com and uh yeah, check us out. Exciting.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, it's gonna be good, isn't it?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Um in fact don't go there. Go to speaklife.org.uk slash foundry. That would be better. Speaklife.org.uk slash foundry. Um But yeah, we'd love to love to see you in in September.
SPEAKER_07Um Yeah, it could be interesting, couldn't it? And and if it's not for you but you know people, pass it on.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_07Pass on the on the word.
SPEAKER_05Exactly, exactly. And wouldn't it be great to go uh as a team uh to this these various places and wouldn't it be great to produce resources as a team? Uh but one of the places we uh went to as a as a two-man team, uh we went to Crowborough, uh which is where you live, and uh and it was part of the one life mission of All Saints and St. Richards there in Crowbra. Uh tell us what what kind of happened uh over this last weekend?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, so it ran Friday through to Sunday, um, and there were a whole load of events. So Friday afternoon there was something called Tea at the Glitz, which was a kind of afternoon tea event, uh slightly primarily slightly older crowd because in the middle of the afternoon, so more retirees and things, but there were some young younger ones there. Um and so there was singing, wasn't there, you know, kind of a pianist and a violin and a bit of uh bit of uh Frank Sinatra stuff.
SPEAKER_05It felt like we were on a cruise ship.
SPEAKER_07Excellent, yes, yes. So um so we had that, and then in the evening there was our gin and jazz evening, so there was a jazz band, and there were some uh different gins to try, um, kind of round tables, and obviously again you I mean you're speaking to all of them, I'm not gonna keep saying that. Um then Glenn spoke again. And uh and then we had Ace from Gladiators Warren is his real name, Warren Furman. Furman, so Warren Furman, he uh he was there for Saturday, wasn't he? Yep, um and he did a uh breakfast in the morning, which is more for uh adults where he gave his testimony. And then there was I was speaking as well. You were spirit was a family event in the afternoon, teenagers event in the evening, so inflatables and bits and bobs going on, run the eliminator, and he would speak a little bit about um what uh you know his how he'd come to Christ. And I think you might have if you've seen the live cast before, you might have seen a clip from when he did that at Jesmond. Yes. Because you spoke to him a few weeks back when you were up there. That's true, up in Newcastle. Yep. Uh up in yeah, Newcastle way. Um so we had that, and then Sunday you were at all the services, weren't you, in the morning, pretty much. And then in the evening we had Tom McConnell, who is a singer-songwriter who makes good use of guitar loop pedals and well, not just guitar loops, everything, vocals and keys, piano. Beatbox. Beatboxing, yeah, it's his own bit of beatboxing one man band. So he was doing that, and uh it was just a yeah, lots of good stuff going on, really.
SPEAKER_05It was great. I loved it. I I think there must have been over a hundred volunteers kind of helping out over the course of the weekend.
SPEAKER_07Probably, yeah, it was quite quite a lot of people from what I saw, it was quite varied.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And varied ty kinds of events as well. So you yeah, the the older people for the tea and then gin and jazz was a different crowd, and then obviously the inflatables brings a different crowd, and Tom McConnell brought a different crowd. So so really trying to mix that up and and trying to put Jesus in the middle of it all. And yeah.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Yeah, I think um it this this time around it was a good good mix of things. It was pretty much something for everyone. You know, it sounds a bit cliched, but yeah.
SPEAKER_05And I think breaking down the barriers as well, people who came to an event like that, I think, are far more likely to then for instance take an invitation to Carols, which is coming up, and so you know, within a month they'll they'll receive another invitation to come back into the building. You've had a good experience, you'll have another good experience, and this time we're gonna surround you with all sorts of Christian songs and and a little bit of preaching as well. And I I I think that that really does help people make that make that journey from from beyond the church right to the heart of things. So we pray that people would make that make that journey. And uh I just wanted to reflect on like one thing that I found myself sort of saying at quite a number of these um events. Um so, for instance, at the at the gin and jazz evening, um I kind of did a thing on comedy versus tragedy, um, which uh if you've read my Easter little booklet called Divine Comedy, um I kind of talk about you know what is the shape of life? Is it a comedy? Is it a tragedy? Um if it's a if it's a tragedy, it's shaped like a frowny face, you go up in the world and then you tumble down into the pit. If you're in a comedy, you go down into the pit, but you end on a high. Um and then you're able to say, with that kind of framing, what is a gin and jazz evening? Is gin and jazz is it as good as life gets? Are you on top of the world? Is this is this a last hurrah before the inevitable? Or is gin and jazz actually a foretaste of the coming feast? Like which is it? Uh and just being able to, you know, ask that question about the things that we enjoy, joy and love and beauty and goodness, um, are these things like a thin layer of glaze over the top of dead rubble, or are they first fruits that actually point forward to some kind of future hope? And and I found myself sort of saying similar things again on the Friday night, uh on the Sunday night rather, um, Tom McConnell doing his music and it was really fascinating and brilliant and exhilarating at times, and just saying, like, do do you think from a mechanical worldview, d can you account for how good and true and beautiful and aesthetically pleasing an evening like tonight is, if you just believe that life is matter in motion? Surely music awakens you to uh the fact that this world is not just a great machine that grinds along according to iron laws, but that actually there are elements to this world that cannot be accounted for with a mechanical worldview. Um so we we've often done before on the on on uh thorny questions and and so on. Uh the way that the the the modern worldview is is mechanical, and it's just about matter in motion, matter in motion. The most real thing that you can possibly um encounter in this world is matter in motion, and everything else just boils down to matter in motion. Um but there are a whole bunch of other M's that uh are truly meaningful and that we should worry about. What about music? What about morals? What about meaning? What about metaphysics? What about minds? What about mercy? What about miracles? What about all these things that don't fit into a mechanical worldview? And as soon as people are awakened and alive to that, I I think they're much more likely to see the mechanical worldview as sinking sand. And maybe the Christian worldview is is the rock on which they can stand. So that's kind of an argument from beauty, which I don't know, I don't I don't hear very much um in modern evangelism. I guess not. When you think about like a university mission y and you you do your your lunch bar topics, which are usually your more apologetically based, you know, talks where you're just trying to defend the the cogency of the Christian worldview. Um and y you're often asked to defend is there such a thing as absolute truth, or what about the the truthfulness of the New Testament documents, or whether Jesus really rose from the dead, or um theodicy, how do you fit God and suffering together? But I don't hear a lot of people talking about um there is beauty in this world that is not reducible to brain chemistry. Um and that if you are um if you are a materialist, you kind of do have to boil down your experience of beauty just to a psychological thing, and your psychology boils down to biology, your biology boils down to f chemistry, your chemistry boils down to physics, and we're all just quarks and leptons fizzing. Um what a barren view of the world. And but I w I I wonder if the reason why we don't go there so much in our evangelism is because we we're not really Trinitarian enough. Because actually, when we talk about ultimate reality, if we're not properly Trinitarian, then the only ultimate reality we can think of is this kind of power that is above us, to which we must bow. And it's not immediately apparent why when I talk about God, I really mean beauty or love. Um whereas when you're talking about the triune God, it should become immediately apparent. When you're talking about this God, you're talking about self-giving love. You know. Anyway. So that's that's a kind of an argument from from beauty, uh, which I'd like to see a lot more of in in evangelism. And and where I see it really being used in in in just face-to-face everyday conversation, is is just being curious with someone, what what kind of music do you like? And then why do you like it? And then what is this thing called music? And isn't it stunning that you know these compression waves in the air are just are making my eardrum vibrate at a certain frequency, which is sending a certain kind of electrical signal down into my brain, and certain synapses are firing. But that is a completely um rubbish account of why we love music. Um and just just encouraging people to think that you know there are there's more than synapses firing in brain chemistry, and there's more than waves kind of dancing in the air. That there's actually there's actually ultimate beauty and goodness and truth and love. And that's what Jesus is is inviting you into. So anyway, that's that's my argument from beauty. I I I offer it to you, to the world. Take it and run with it. Um or just you know, make jokes about shooting people. Um that's that's my thing. That's how I roll. Brilliant. Do we have anything else to uh to go through?
SPEAKER_07Uh I don't believe so. I th I think we pretty much covered everything we were gonna cover. I think we're done.
SPEAKER_05I think we're done. Well, how have you enjoyed the YouTube experience? Um let us know in the comments and uh do be sharing the video around. We'll post this on Facebook as well. And stay tuned on Friday for the release of this as a uh as a podcast. But if you are on podcast, we'd really love you to subscribe to YouTube. It really helps us get seen on YouTube. Um we we did have that case um last weekend, was it, uh, where a guy said I watched some Jordan Peterson videos and he got me you know 90% of the way to to Christian faith. And then I watched your videos on YouTube and that got me over the line. Um it was it's because we're growing a community on YouTube that actually our YouTube videos start getting seen, start showing up in searches. So um it could be the most evangelistic thing you do is click the the notification bell. Right, and click the notification bell, and then you'll be uh notified of all the new stuff um that we have on on YouTube. So please do subscribe on YouTube, like us on Facebook, share the wealth on podcasts, and uh yeah.
SPEAKER_07Yep, all those things.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And keep speaking life.
SPEAKER_05How about that?
SPEAKER_07Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05I think we're done. Take care. Ciao for now, bye.