The Speak Life Podcast, sharing Jesus in everyday life.
SPEAKER_03Is there anything better than enjoying a great cup of tea in your favorite book of the Bible, Paul's Letter to the Colossians? Only one thing could make that more enjoyable. That's listening to it read by the delicate tones of David Sushay. Take it away, David. Colusions.
SPEAKER_01Colossians, chapter one. Colossians? I thought it was Colossians. But maybe he's right. Maybe it's to the God's holy people in Colosi. To God's holy people in Colossian.
SPEAKER_04And you might be wondering, everything might seem a bit strange to you. I think Paul's sitting on the wrong side. And Glenn is looking a bit different as well. Oh, happened there. Sorry for that. But yes, so today Glenn is not here. But actually, we've got Andy here. So you may have heard Andy behind uh you were if you were listening to the what was it called before the Speak Life podcast, the Evangelist Podcast. If you've been listening to the Evangelist podcast for years, you'll have heard Andy on that. And then you may have heard us uh making references to Andy whilst we sat here going, Andy, what are we doing? Help us, most of the time. So all nice things, I hope. Absolutely. So um so yeah, good that we've got Andy here today. Andy's going to be kind of fronting this with me. Um a really insightful monologue there from Glenn, as always. Colossions. Colossions. Are there any uh do you have any Bible words that you're not sure how they're pronounced, or you you come across different versions?
SPEAKER_07Oh um I'll put you on the spot there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you have.
SPEAKER_07I always wondered about um is it I or AI, you know, when Joshua.
SPEAKER_04Okay, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_07I and I never really wondered about the um Mordecai or is it Mordecai?
SPEAKER_04Mordecai, yeah. Oh yeah, see I would have gone for Mordecai. Well for years for years and years I referred to the book of Philemon and uh and and then people started saying saying Philemon and I've gradually phased it through because I've kind of come to the conclusion I was probably wrong. But um also recently we've been doing Exodus at church and it's pained me every time people have read the word Sinee, um, because I'm thinking I think it's cineye, surely there's no extra eye in there. But uh Sine eye. Sine eye.
SPEAKER_07Or nor I've heard people refer to Noah at the ark. Noor?
SPEAKER_04Noor. Sort of Noah stockpots, aren't they? Noor stockpots, as I but uh Oh dear me. Hello to uh Ian and to Biddy and to Sammy uh checking in. Good to have you with us. Um so as you've put him over here to this sounds so confusing now. Um now Glenn's uh Glenn's not here. Glenn's actually away. Uh if you've picked up some details over the last week, you may have seen that he's been um uh away on missions and speaking at various events. Um we've actually got a little video from him where he's gonna fill us in on what he's been doing and uh hopefully we'll we'll see how that's all going. Find out. Here we go.
SPEAKER_03Hey there, I am at uh Moncton Coombe School for the Micklemus addresses. Uh so it's the sort of school that has Micklemus addresses. Um I don't know what that means either, but uh I'm speaking a lot. I'm uh doing uh some chapel talks in the morning and some lunchtime talks with QA and then some evening talks. Um and uh it's it's Moncton Coomb School. Um as James Carey, who is an alumnus of this particular school, uh often says, it is a ridiculously Christian school uh founded by missionaries um who wanted somewhere um properly Christian uh to educate their children and that sort of thing. Um and uh it's just lovely. It's near Bath. And uh this morning for breakfast I had the choice of uh smoked salmon and scrambled eggs, which I passed on, and I had rice crispies instead and an orange. Um that's how I roll. And uh had it we had a great time in chapel this morning, and I did my whole masked gunman burst into the room talk. Have you heard that before? Anyway, masked gunman burst into the room with vella clavers and they turd you into unmarked white vans, and they inject you with a serum that wipes your memory banks of everything you've ever said, thought, done. And you wake up in a massive factory space, this room with no windows, no doors, no entrances, no exits, there's nothing but you and the room, and then people start to have different ideas about where have they come from? What is the meaning of the room, and is there anything beyond the room? And so I start to talk about well, you know, hopeful Harry has a feeling in his gut that somebody out there likes me and it's all gonna be okay. And then scientific Sally, she looks at some measurements in the room and she does the calculations and she realizes it's really well designed, so maybe there's a designer to the room. And then skeptical Stephen gets up and he says, Look, I like you, Harry, you seem nice at parties. Scientific Sally, all those calculations and the the inference to the design sounds really interesting. But look, I'm just faced with this room, and let's just try to make this room as good as we possibly can. Let's just shut up about what's outside the room. Those are three kind of personality types, and maybe you respond to one of them. But what if bits of ceiling cut start sort of flaking down and then a man appears in the middle of the room and he says, I'm from beyond and I'm here to rescue you. Does that change the conversation in the room? Of course it does. You might think that he's lying, you might want to pepper him with all sorts of questions, but his entrance into the room and his claims about himself change the conversation in the room. And of course, Jesus is that man. And you can pepper him with questions, and that's what these Mickle misaddresses are all about. Come and ask your questions about Jesus. But he is the absolute game changer. And that was my introductory talk. And uh, please keep praying for our lunchtime talks, and please keep praying for uh my evening talks. And uh, we want to see Christians really established and rooted in their faith, but there's plenty, uh plenty of those who would not identify as Christians who come along to this school, and uh we we would love them to encounter the living Jesus. So pray for Moncton Coombs School and these Mickle Miss addresses. I've just come from uh this weekend, I had uh a talk on Remembrance Sunday at King's Church Lewis, and lots of guests came to that, so we can pray for ongoing fruit from that talk. And also I had a weekend away with um Warwick University Christian Union because in February uh I'm gonna go to Warwick and uh and preach the gospel uh for a week in February there, and so we were really uh preparing the students for that, so that was really exciting, and just just getting um students from Warwick and from Coventry and from uh Northampton University, and uh we had a really great time in uh in One Peter, actually. And uh I kind of opened up with you know, Peter tells us to suffer well, and before he ever talks about speaking well for Jesus, really we've got to learn how to suffer well for Jesus. And uh that was a heavy first talk, but an important first talk for a lot of people. We had loads of great chats afterwards, uh, and people just sort of saying, you know, we don't feel like we're prepared for suffering. We we feel like we're prepared to have a relationship with Jesus that in your head you think is just rainbows and puffies and sunshine. But lots of people were saying to me, look, I don't feel like I've been prepared by my church to suffer with Jesus. And actually, if you're gonna have a relationship with Jesus, it's gonna be a relationship of walking through the valley of the shadow of death. And if you don't know how to know your good shepherd in the midst of that, you haven't really been set up for life, and you won't really be able to speak well for Jesus. So um, that was the burden of this last weekend. Coming up this weekend um in the future, I'm going to All Saints Crobra, Paul Feese's Church, and uh we're gonna do a one life uh weekend, all sorts of interviews with interesting people like Warren Furman, who is case from Gladiators, and uh yeah, talking to interesting people about how Christ makes a difference in their lives and then preaching the gospel. So please do pray for the one life uh mission in Crobra. We we just long for lots of those who aren't Christians to be invited to come along. We pray for open doors of opportunity, we pray for open hearts for those who come to hear the message, and then an open mouth for me. And please do pray that words would be given to me so that I can make the gospel clear, plain, and complete.
SPEAKER_04Hello, okay. I think we lost the last few seconds there. I have a feeling now I understand why the uh the the file uh was called cut to last five seconds. See. Um two together now. Uh so um Glenn uh is in uh the bath for a week. Uh about time. Um so he's down at this school. Um lots of interesting stuff come out that m mostly I would say why on earth would you choose Rice Krispies over smoked salmon? I just can't understand, yeah. Shocking, shocking. What's he on about? And he had an orange. An orange and rice krispies.
SPEAKER_07But it's it looks I mean boarding school obviously seems to be staying there. I mean that looked like it looked a bit like a dorm, didn't it? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Very nice. Yeah, well you've got to I think you know, there's I I used to say when I worked in the church, you know, like you compare it to some jobs, there's not a lot of perks, you know. You know, so I would take the scrambled eggs when I get the scrambled eggs and the the smoked salmon. So But um so he Glenn talked to Dinner about that image of the I mean you've probably heard him use it before the room the with the the room where you get drugged and you're taken off and you don't remember anything. And um I always think that's quite a a good one. I think we used it in one of our in one of our thorny question videos. Um maybe it was like is God real? Might have been that one. Yeah. Um and I know he's he's modified it over the years because he used to talk about, you know, there was so and so who said, Well, outside the room there's a purple penguin you know, who swimming in swimming in cream cheese, wasn't it? And then someone else says, No, that's a complete load of rubbish. It's uh a giant flamingo flying around scorching the earth with his avian fury, laser eye beams, you know, whatever. Laser beam eyes. Um and they go to war with each other and all kinds of things. So and I remember mocking up a kind of from my youth group when I used that illustration, I mocked up a kind of laser beam flamingo and a purple penguin and like they were battling it out. So, you know.
SPEAKER_07And Sunday school even song, you know, that that's whatever.
SPEAKER_04But I like the illustration because um it it comes back to a bit of our conversation earlier today when we were saying what stuff often comes back to is is it's Jesus turned up in the real world. So yeah, and and that's kind of what makes Jesus different, or what makes Christianity different from other faiths. Well God actually rocked up in history and surely if that's at least that's the claim, you think, well, if at least there's someone claiming that it's worth investigating, so why not we why don't we just investigate those things? So it kind of gets people into looking hopefully at who Jesus is right from the get-go. So that's a pretty good one. I don't know if you think.
SPEAKER_07I also like um Glenn's uh one that he uses about the rose.
SPEAKER_04Oh the like Betty the botanist and uh yeah, the camera for the lab assistant type.
SPEAKER_07And then she uh reports back to him and she says, Oh, I've analyzed the rose, I've you know, looks at all their genome and all the genetics and that. Yeah, what are you talking about? It was uh it was uh February the 14th, Valentine's Day. And uh yeah, it sort of brings it home that there's more to matter, you know, more to just uh atoms and forces and that in uh there's a depth to it that uh we don't quite uh convey really in other forms.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and I mean it just uh because it's that one's very similar to the like people have used the cake one, haven't they? About you can you know the nutritionists can tell you what's in it, etc etc. Um but you know they can't tell you why it was made. Um and it is good that when you have those illustrations you do find yourself uh using them again and again and again and they stick, don't they? So that's good. Um sounds like good stuff going on there though, and good stuff. I mean you've talked about Northampton CU um Warwick and Northampton CUs prepping for uh a mission week. A little bit further ahead, suffering well. Um that's interesting, isn't it? That the first thing Peter says is that we should think about suffering well for Jesus rather than speaking well. And I guess we spend so much time prepping on the speaking well, don't we? Kind of how can we share our faith with others? Um and I I suppose I'm not and I don't think I've given too much thought to suffering well. Um so I imagine there were some good conversations off the back of that. Yeah. And then Glenn, as I think you said, we're he's coming to to my church, um well the church where I'm a member. Um this weekend we've got one life weekend, lots of different events. We've got a gin and jazz night, we've got Tea at the Glitz, we've got Warren the Gladiator, um uh Tom O'Connell, who's a a Christian artist who does looping and stuff. Oh right. So he he comes and he's live. That's Sunday night. Okay, so that's that's uh uh an event there. And Glenn speaking of all of them, I think obviously Warren will be giving his testimony I think we saw a bit of Warren's testimony on one of the live casts a few weeks back because Glenn saw him in Jesmond Parish Church up in Newcastle. That's Warren. Um it just got me thinking though, the there's the different formats of of these kind of you have these uh events weeks, or whatever you want to call them, mission weeks. You have ones a bit like the style we're doing this weekend where you have an event like Jinna Jazz or or Tom McConnell and then you have a talk. And then you have other people who have a the style is more it's an interview with someone and a talk. So I think when we were at all Souls Lang and Place, you know, Mary Berry and Tim Farron and then Glenn spoke. Um and then the other kind of one I suppose is you really just have a talk, a kind of you might have a quite controversial topic and that gets people in. And I just wonder, like I don't know, I don't know which ones work best because everyone has different opinions, but I don't really know because because I know we've talked before about how if you come to just a talk, you're probably coming because you are interested and you're in the mindset of I'm here to hear this and uh engage with it and talk about it. Um but maybe my my assumption is you'll get less people at that than you will at the event, yeah. Like the gin and jazz. Yeah. Because people are like, ooh, this is quite I like that, you know. Um but then people are slightly less engaged with what's said in the talk. It's a bit of an add-on.
SPEAKER_07I guess it's kind of you know, what reaches some people doesn't reach others, and you know. I think you uh sometimes can't cater for everybody if if we cater if you know if we use the word. Um and I think I suppose looking at it from a a wider point of view, we want to get as many fish in the net as possible. But sometimes you know, you can have one event and only one person.
SPEAKER_04There's different ways to catch fish, aren't there? There's the big net and there's the fishing rod. So yeah, maybe that's a helpful way of looking at it, actually that that's uh all all I mean all of them have got the gospel at the centre, haven't they, of wanting to proclaim the gospel, and I suppose that's what it's about. And if and there will be people who will come to a gin and jazz who are not going to turn up for you know the the talk called you know, did Jesus really rise from the dead? Yeah, um and and vice versa. So yeah, maybe that's that's a good way, that's a helpful way of thinking about it.
SPEAKER_07And I think you know the the Lord can use any kind of uh you know methods if you like. Uh there was a d a guy at Bible college that um he was just walking along the street and he saw someone had thrown away a a tract um on the on the ground that had a picture of a big eye on it, and it said in the twinkling of an eye and he picked it up and he read through it and he got saved. Really? Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_04Well, I heard a similar story about a girl who who bought a a lollipop and I don't know what it was, but somewhere on the lollipop on the stick or something, it said, For God so loved the world that um and that was what it said. And she was so intrigued that she went and found the verse and uh you know and then became a Christian through that. So it just goes to show like I mean God can use anything, can't he? So like clickbait. Like you'll never guess what happened next. God sent his son into the world. You'll never guess. Um so do be praying for Glenn uh this and uh the things he's been doing at the moment and things ahead. Um that'd be great. If you were listening in last week, you'll have heard about the foundry. So we're wanting to um grow the work of Speak Life and to have interns. We're looking to take some interns on next year and basically just uh develop more evangelists and this kind of online ministry of evangelism. Um so we're kind of finding our way on that at the moment. And we've actually thrown together a little video about that. So I think we're gonna see that video and uh see what we make of it.
SPEAKER_07This is uh Dan Rackham, who was on last week. Who's here last week, yes. Let's put this together. So here we go.
SPEAKER_03With the Speak Life Foundry, we want to forge evangelists and evangelistic resources to bless the church and reach the world. Why not come join us? We will study together, go on mission together, and produce resources together that will reach this online space. YouTube has 1.8 billion monthly users. Facebook has 2.3 billion monthly users. If they were countries, they would be the biggest countries on planet Earth. But who are the missionaries? Come to us and let's forge this missionary activity together that will reach this online space and make a noise for Jesus.
SPEAKER_06It'll be great to have you join us as we learn together how to project manage the whole creative process from scripting, coming up with ideas, filming and editing. We'll be working together as a team, developing some incredible resources.
SPEAKER_03And we want to train you theologically. Jesus said that we'll be fruitful as we abide in the vine, as we spend time with Christ in his word. And so we want to spend time having a robust, Trinitarian, Christ-centred theology that will stand us in good stead to produce all these great world-reaching resources. We're starting in September 2019 down here in Eastbourne.
SPEAKER_05And if that sounds exciting, then come and join us. Fill out the form below and get in touch.
SPEAKER_04Great. So there you have it. That is the foundry. That gives you a little flavour of what we're thinking of doing. Um and I guess gives you a flavor of actually you saw a bit there, what it looks like behind the scenes, all this stuff. Um there's a lot of work that goes into it, and we'd love to have more people on board to help with that work and to grow it. Um and quite, you know, people who've got talents that you know people like myself don't have, um, who are going to be able to just really add to what we're able to do. Um so if you're if you're that kind of person, if you're interested at all in any way, or you know people, um, then uh there should be in the comments below here, but you'll be able to find it if you're listening to the podcast as well, put a link somewhere. Um, there should be a link to this speaklife.org.uk forward slash foundry. Um and if you go to that, you'll find a uh a kind of sheet you can sign up for to receive information about this. So if you you want to express an interest. So if you know if you want to fill that in, that's great. If you know other people, forward it on to them and uh we'll be in touch at some stage because we're looking to push forward as quickly as we can. Um if you're on our email list, you'll you may know that last week we released our a new weekly email. So uh we're sending out to our subscribers every Friday. That's the aim, a kind of weekly digest of all the bits we've we've got that that week, the things that have happened and some prayer requests for the weeks ahead and stuff like that. Um so if you've if you've not signed up for that, then do sign up for that. That would be great. You can sign up at speaklife.org.uk forward slash sign up, uh, which makes sense, that's an easy one to remember. Um and you know, maybe maybe you are on Facebook already and you think, well, I see all your stuff that goes out. Well, maybe you do, but there's probably bits you miss as well. Um so this will collect it all in one place, so you won't miss anything. And also there's information on there about, as I said, kind of prayer requests, um, about missions and stuff like that that you might not get so much on on Facebook. So we'd love you to do that. Um and uh we've also been thinking about the work here. I mean, we've talked about the foundry um uh financing and things like that. We we we really value have value having you guys engaging with our content. We'd love it if you uh were able to um in any way to support us financially so that we can keep doing our work. Um and if you go again, the links are down in the in the comments. If you go to speaklife.org.uk forward slash support, you'll see various ways you can support us there. Um I think we've got a bit up here on the screen. Um you can donate to CAF, there's gift aid options and things like that. So there are many different ways, however, you feel able to do that. It might be one off, it might be monthly. Um, but that'd be great if you felt you could support our ministry and what's going on. So thank you very much. Um Christmas is coming, Andy. Christmas Christmas is coming. Um and so as as always, it's the season for um Christmas video Christmas videos, and uh particularly on the telly, the old Christmas adverts are beginning to rear their heads. Um I don't know if you've got a particular favourite one. I mean the one I've seen this year that I've uh been enjoying uh is the Aldi advert, which particularly which spoofs uh spoofs the holidays are coming, Coca-Cola with Kevin the Carrot. Kevin the Carrot driving the Coca-Cola uh well not the Coca-Cola, driving the Kevin the Carrot lorry, um and almost falling off a cliff at the end in the kind of Italian job spoof with the hashtag save Kevin. And you and you told me that apparently you do have to tweet in.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, my it was my son actually, uh he's 15. Um he told me that he he thinks you have to save Kevin by tweeting or something like that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah if they don't get enough tweets then. Yeah, that's it, that's the end of Kevin. That's it, it'll be a diced carrot or something by the end. Um so we we we like the Christmas, uh we like the Christmas adverts. I know I'm sure John Lewis one will appear soon, the kind of famous John Lewis one. But Sainsbury's have already got this out. Um I don't know if you've seen it already, but we're gonna have a look at Sainsbury's one and see what we make of it because we quite liked it.
SPEAKER_07Okay.
SPEAKER_04I just got thinking that um very rarely do these Christmas adverts actually have anything to do with um the shops themselves anymore. It's just that it's it's very much about competing. Yeah, yeah. Just like 4.99 here. Aldi should do their own one where they just do the same thing but just put different prices. That's what they do on their other adverts, don't they? You know, Tesco's 499 Aldi. That's right. PvP. They should have done that without all those bits. Kevin the carrot. Kevin the carrot. Um no, we like that and particularly enjoyed the plug. Um the plug is brilliant. Jumps up and jumping into a plug stuff.
SPEAKER_07They must have animated that or CGI or something, because it it just comes in comes in so well. I mean, I was having it on repeat just that little bit, just seeing him jump.
SPEAKER_04How did they do that? It's the way his little legs fly through the air that just gets me every time. And it's worth watching the making of video on YouTube, if only if only to see the girl dressed as a ball ball fall over and not be able to get back up again. But um no, we I mean obviously yeah, it's a bit tween and whatnot, but we liked it, and particularly that the bit of the end there, uh, you know, you give all that you've got for the ones you love now. Um and we're saying actually that's a profoundly in many ways, that's a profoundly Christian message there. Um because that that is that is what God does. Yeah. You know, God does give all he has for those he loves. I am I right in thinking that is the Sainsbury's Sainsbury's family who uh they've got a Christian background, is that right?
SPEAKER_07There's some kind of Yeah, there's some kind of connection there. I'm I'm not quite sure what the connection is, but yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, I mean of course at the end of the day, Sainsbury's it's a machine, isn't it? They're making their money and whatnot. But uh it struck me that particularly for someone like a youth worker as I used to be, something like that at Christmas rolls around and schools are saying, Come and do an assembly, and every year you're going, Well, what am I gonna do this time? you know. And actually having something like that that's new and fresh, you can show a two-minute video and you can use it as a a bit of a stepping stone into this into talking about the Christmas story, yeah and you know, like God does give all he has for those he loves. And I think we we were talking a little bit earlier about there's a contrast there with us that yeah, we might give to those we love, but there's a lot of people we don't love. Yeah. Um and we we don't give to them, but yet God loves his enemies, yeah. And you know, you know, whilst we're still sinners, Christ died for us.
SPEAKER_07Um yeah, pray for pray for those who persecute you and you know Absolutely, yeah, yeah. I picked it up just this time watching it just now. Um I think it says you can't buy the light. I think that's one of the lines in the song.
SPEAKER_04Oh, right, from the New Radicals. Is it New Radicals song? Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Interesting microphone.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, have to listen back and see.
SPEAKER_07I like the idea that they've got a little um child over Down syndrome. And uh there's another f there's another advert with with the I think it's um Nat West or Yeah, I think it's Nat West. And they had a a Down syndrome child um in there. And I think it's good, you know, that they get um airtime, if you like, on the yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Well, particularly given some of the things we'll we might end up talking about later on as we think about our interview with John uh John Wyatt. But um yeah, so you know, uh a bit of fun, but also maybe maybe a helpful Christmas resource for those who want to use something um get some conversation going. Um I'm all for I'm all for links. I'm all for youth won't go just desperate for anything, really. Um if you were listening last week, um I think we talked about how I was preaching last Friday uh evening at our cafe church on uh adultery. We've been doing a uh a series at the Cafe Church on the Ten Commandments. It's part of um J. John's material, the Ten stuff, which I think is years and years old. Now I think he's rebadged it. It's kind of it's called just ten now, but it's yeah, it's all the same kind of thing. Um and I was a little bit hesitant, I mean a bit hesitant anyway about doing the Ten Commandments as a series, because I think the danger is that you end up simply moralising and you know, end up teaching law and it can be not very graceful of, which I think is always in danger. And and I was saying last week that um uh the adultery one I felt well, I slightly felt I'd drawn the short straw, um, and I'd left it too late as well, that I'd I I'd other things have got on top of me, and it's such a controversial topic and one where you want to be very sensitive.
SPEAKER_07And and a lot of people are affected by you know either their parents or themselves or their children or you know, close relative touches everyone.
SPEAKER_04Well exactly, and I I did a bit of just research and the statistics were something like one in one in five people said they there's a UK said they'd had an affair, which you know is obviously feels quite high and you know it was a bit of an it was an even split between men and women, you know, it wasn't really one sex or the other sex over the other and stuff. But you know, so just how it is quite a common thing, and I was very aware that when I was speaking there were going to be people in the room who had been affected by it, who maybe had partners, um who'd had affairs. But of course, as well knowing that what I didn't want to do is is simply you you think you don't want to do this as a talk that you think is only for married people. Yeah. You know, that you you want everyone to understand that in a sense, well not in a sense, this does affect everyone. So I think we've got a we've got a clip from from the talk. So a bit of a listen in and see. But it may, again, it might not be images or even stuff like that. It might just be stuff in our minds. It's possible, isn't it, to have an emotional affair, to commit emotional adult adultery. Maybe we just start to invest our hopes and our sexual desires and longings in someone else. And we start to play out fantasies in our head. And it might be sexual, it might be imagining what life would be like with that other person. And you may not have a physical affair, but you've committed one in your mind. And it's often the case that what starts in the mind then moves to reality. Maybe it becomes flirting in the office or sending each other messages in private. And it would be really easy to rationalise and justify all these things, wouldn't it? Because they're not physical. And we just think you know, we want to downplay the seriousness of them because we think it doesn't feel uh like looking at something or thinking about something is as serious as doing something. And so we think to ourselves, well, you know what, porn is just an image. Or these images are okay because they're not porn. Or, you know, these aren't even images, they're just words on a page or thoughts in my head. I'm not actually cheating on my spouse by flirting uh with someone or messaging someone else. I've not actually done anything wrong. Or maybe we'd rationalize it because we're single. And we can say, well, I don't have any kind of physical outlet, so this is what I've got. And those things, they may or they may not lead to physical adultery, but all these things are forms of adultery. They hurt partners, they destroy trust, they break up families and friendships, it causes untold hurt and pain. For those who uh, as partners have cheated on them, it can cause embarrassment, issues with self-esteem, self-blame. And I think as well, it's important to recognize that adultery doesn't just affect our current relationships. Sexual activity outside of marriage can have effects on later relationships. People may bring baggage to relationships with them. And the the best descriptive illustration I ever heard of this was a teenage girl on camp once, and she said, This is why you shouldn't have sex outside marriage. She said, It's just like going to the supermarket, is it, isn't it? She said, You're in the fruit and veg section and you pick up an apple, and it's like taking a bite out of it and then just putting it back. And later on, someone else is gonna come along and buy that apple, and they're gonna find out that someone else has had a bite out of their apple. And actually, it wasn't your bite to take. I just thought that's profound. So there we go, that was a a brief couple of minutes from the middle of the talk. Um I did I do like that illustration, that girl. I mean, you it just came out of the mouth of this 13-year-old girl who just talks about like, oh yeah, it's like eating an apple and you know, taking the bite and putting it back. And that's stuck with me ever since um I've used it again and again. Um But I I think it's like speaking on the issue of adultery, like it's such a difficult well, it was a difficult one because like I say, you you feel there's a danger of simply moralising and you don't just want to be saying, Don't do this, don't do that. Equally, I think with a topic like adultery, Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount shows you the scope. I talk about you know, Jesus shows the scope of the the the issue and the seriousness of it. And the scope is that it's not just physical and it's not just married people, it's anyone who lusts, you know, and it's in the mind. And so whilst uh you know you you don't just want to end up kind of talking about the practical do's and don'ts, but you also want to spend quite a good bit of time saying do this or don't do this. Um and so I did delve I think in that section there, I was talking a bit more about the the emotional side, you know, that in your mind it might be, you know, just uh playing out fantasy, it may be um or or it may be the the things that the the flirting with someone at the office or the tet or the secret messages or you think I'm and we justify it, you know, I'm I'm not having I'm not having an affair, I've not done anything, and I mentioned before I think earlier on in the talk obviously physical adultery, but also images, whether it's pornography or whether it's either even places I talk about YouTube and Instagram and saying that, you know, they are um obviously they say that they have a no kind of pornography policy um but yet there are plenty of channels or places on there which maybe they're dedicated to things like clothing or fitness or makeup or whatever. And actually they feature quite highly sexualised images which can be unhelpful um or but even you know if you pick up a magazine in the shops, just uh not top shelf stuff, but it's there as well. So in a sense you you can't avoid it. Um so I was keen to talk about I was trying to burrow down into as many things, mostly because you want it people to see how pernicious it is, how uh ingrained it is in us, you can't get away from it, and in a sense you don't want anyone to come away going, Oh well he wasn't talking about me. Yeah you know, you want everyone to feel like oh this is this is all of us. Um but then I say that the other side is that uh i i i the danger of preaching on a topic like this or the commandments is is uh being just simply the law. Um and actually what I was really keen to bring out was that uh whilst this is a kind of negative commandment, don't commit adultery, really it's the positive is that it's calling us to be faithful. And that, you know, to think, you know, how how how faithful can I be? And let's not take the idea of how close do I walk to the line. It's like the edge of the cliff, I think I talked about, you know, if you know you could fall off the cliff, you don't walk along the edge as close as you can, you keep well back and you know flee from it and keep into safety. Um but I really wanted to draw out, I think, that the the reason adultery is so serious is not simply because of the consequences that it has in everyday life, which are many and numerous, but that because uh uh the the kind of the the desecration or whatever you want to call it of the of the marriage relationship um and adultery is uh is such an issue because marriage is supposed to be a picture of uh the relationship between Christ and the church. Yeah. Um and right at the beginning of the Bible you have a a wedding, you know, Adam and Eve, and then you know, in Ephesians Paul references the two becoming one flesh, and he says, you know, this is a profound mystery, but I'm talking about Christ in the church. Um and you see all through the Bible the relationship between God and his people is described in this terms of a marriage at the end of the Bible, you know, Revelation 19, you have um you know, we're invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb, and then kind of probably most famously Revelation 21 with the the the New Jerusalem coming down, adorned as a bride. And so you want to say, why is this so serious? Well, it's because we're talking um we're we're talking about the the the the very wiring of God's plan for the universe.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, yeah. It's like a reflection of you know what's happening in the spiritual realm.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely, yeah. And I mean there was a quote there's a quote from Tom Wright where he uh or I'm not sure it was the in the quote from Tom Wright, but it it was from some stuff there where it talked about kind of marriage and kind of marital sex being like the uh it's the it's the trailer almost for the the real thing in heaven, you know. Um and it obviously like a shadow of it and it points to it. And of course adultery is kind of the opposite of that, it it's not a picture of faithfulness, um whatever, and you know the the marriage relationship effectively the vows are I will love you forever, whatever. Um and adultery kind of does away with that, um and that's why it's such a such an issue. But wanting to get at that really and saying it's not just a matter of you know, behave yourself, it's that in all our relationships, whether we're married or not, in a in in all our kind of you know, um romantic relationships and areas like that, we're always kind of this picture um of uh Christ in the church. And then you know, really saying as well because we we can try and change our behaviour, and I think you need to have that aspect in a tool like that, that you know, if you're doing this or you're doing that, stop it. But actually you want to say the real problem is our hearts, you know. Jesus does talk later in Matthew about, you know, all the things that come out of someone's heart, sexual immorality being one of them, um and how actually that there is a deeper issue here than just behave yourself, there's a heart issue. Um and so I talked about you know God's promise in Ezekiel, you know, I'll sprinkle clean water on you and I'll give you a new heart. I'll put my spirit in you, you know, that will move you to follow my decrees. And actually saying that, that's really what we all need in this. Um you know, if we we we can be cleansed because God can cleanse us if we've fallen in this way, which it was clear we all have. Um but it's more than just behave yourself, you need a new heart, and only God can do that. And then he will actually transform us. It's his spirit in us that brings um the change. And I think one angle which I came I think I came to it quite late in the day, and I maybe didn't give as much time to it in the talk as I'd like to, and I mean I was limited by time. Um I mean I finished by talking about the woman caught in adultery and used it primarily as an example of you know, look how Jesus responds to someone who's d who has committed adultery, and actually um you know, he he says, Well neither do I condemn you, you know, go now and leave your life of sin. Um so there is this offer of forgiveness, you know, there needs to be repentance and a turning away, but there is forgiveness. But that the angle that struck me rather late in the day was that um not only can we be forgiven, but if Jesus forgives, we must forgive as well. And I thought, in in a sense, that's almost a whole other there's another talk in there really because not only was I I realised not only am I talking to people who well to all of us who who are in danger of falling into adultery in different ways, um but there are those people in the room who uh maybe are struggling to actually forgive either a spouse or you know, a a parent or well yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah. And I I again, like I say, I because I didn't have time to develop it too much. Um I'm not sure even I'd got that far of thinking beyond the it's been done to you, but yeah, of course, families and um well and I suppose we I know I I we've known people where relationships have broken down and and effectively our friendship with one member has all but ceased, you know, because it just the reality of what life is like and um perhaps not a forgiveness not really a forgiveness issue on our part there, but it the breaking of the relationships still and it does affect everyone. Um so I I was glad to be able to talk about it actually, and and and and and I was a bit worried. I think I said to you I'd left it quite late in the day to prepare, but actually on the evening one of the guys on the team sat down before and he said, I just had this verse today, and then he quoted that Ezekiel um 36 passage about a new heart, and I was like, Oh, this might be alright then. I was like, I think that might be a uh a bit of a sign that we're on the right track. But um, if you want to listen to the whole thing, there's a link in the comments um and do check it out and share it if you think it would be helpful. Um you may have seen then, um I think it was last week, was it last Monday night? Or a week Monday ago that we released.
SPEAKER_07It was released uh published um in full the the um interview with John Wyatt. John Wyatt, um which was at the Brefos conference, which we speak to spoke about um last week. Last week, maybe two weeks ago now.
SPEAKER_04Two weeks ago. Yeah, the time whizzes by, doesn't it? Uh so John was a speaker at the conference and we managed to grab um I think it was about it was about 18 minutes in total, isn't it? An interview with him. Um but we're just gonna watch a clip from it now if you've missed it, and you can check out the whole thing again. But we've got a little brief clip which you can watch.
SPEAKER_03Well, I'm with Professor John White, Professor of uh Neonatal Pediatrics. Correct. Is that right? At uh is it University College? University College, London. Fantastic. And uh you have come to the Brefos conference here to speak about the unborn um with your doctor's hat on. Uh why why do you want to protect the unborn?
SPEAKER_02So I spent most of my life working as a baby doctor. And, you know, as as a baby doctor, I've invested a huge amount of time and energy and resources and spent the government's money trying to protect young babies and trying to give them the very best possible chance of life. At the beginning of the parallel hospital, but in the freedom lesson, vocals taking place. Often we've got some medical vocals taking place, even uh strong uh the babies. The law doesn't recognize the status of the unborn baby. It has no legal personality. So that's the moral difference. The moral difference is not in any difference in the baby, it's in the situation, the context.
SPEAKER_03Yes. And you were giving an interesting story about the 12 weeks.
SPEAKER_04So there you go. That was our or at least the the very beginning section of our interview with John Wyatt, and it's worth checking out the whole thing. John was just a really helpful speaker. He was the first person who spoke at the event and just had lots of great stuff to say. And I think helpful to hear someone speaking from a medical point of view, but speaking well, he he mentions grace and truth, I think, in his talk and in the interview. Speaking very much the truth about these issues, but with a voice of compassion and things as well.
SPEAKER_07And he was sort of highlighting the contrast, you know, um between someone, you know, a wanted baby and an unwanted baby, and uh you know, like just just there sort of saying he he was in one place helping babies to survive, you know. And uh in other places they're putting babies that are healthier and stronger who are older, um uh aborting them, you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and and saying as well that like you know, once the baby was born, it w it didn't matter really whether mum or dad wanted that child to survive or not, his responsibility is to keep that baby alive. Whereas when the baby's in the womb, and it may be a baby that's older and more, you know, actually stronger, yeah, um, suddenly the baby has no agency at all and is you know at the whim of uh whoever you know is going to perform the abortion. So what side of the birth canal, you know, depend you know, they say that. Yeah, absolutely. Like, and and there is a there is a quite a funny spoof video on YouTube with a magical birth canal where they they're you know it's a it's a pro-life thing, but they're saying about how them the birth canal bestows personhood and it's they've got this baby and they're going, look, you know, not a person, not a person, person, you know, and they're like, what is it, you know, magic. Um but but it's interesting, and then he goes on in the interview to talk about the way language is used. Um he talks about ultrasounds, you know, and and its practice that you must discover before you do the ultrasound whether the baby is wanted or not, and therefore the language changes depending on that. So if the parents don't want the baby, uh the the screen is turned away from them, they don't see anything, um they'll talk about the pregnancy growing healthily or whatever. Um whereas you know, when mum and dad are there and they they want the baby, it's what they wanted, then there's there's a screen and look, there's so and so's arms and whatnot, and um you know, it doesn't eat like his dad. But yet the only difference between th those babies is is whether they're what or not.
SPEAKER_07I mean it it's interesting to me that thing with the language is that it's something that we do in all s all walks of life. You know, I mean if you've got a neighbour and uh you know um something's up with the with the with your neighbour or whatever, you know, you're careful on you're tactful with your words because you know you you want to sort of like say it the right way, you don't want to offend them or whatever. Um and you know, the the same thing here, we i it's quite almost like a conscious trying to avoid you know, the the obvious.
SPEAKER_04Well yeah, and and uh there is that element the language was used at the conference, wasn't it, about that dehumanisation uh you know of of the babies there by you know referring to the fetus or the products of conception and and things like that. Um but in the sense to make abortion easier because you you can think, well it's not a baby, it's a fetus or or whatever. Um interestingly, there was a a video um a video which we was brought to our attention just this week of an advert. It's uh it's an advert um by uh it's not by Planned Parenthood, is it? But it's it's pro kind of Planned Parenthood. So it's a pro uh choice video um advert and it says at the end stand with PP. If you don't know PP, that's Planned Parenthood, or one of the biggest abortion providers in uh the United States. Um and interesting that we're talking about how it's so so often people were trying to dehumanize dehumanize uh babies in order to justify abortion. Uh this video seems to throw that out the window slightly. So um have we got the got the clip? There you go.
SPEAKER_07Um I I think I I mean I to be honest, I think they should fire their own. Oh my words, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04And I mean the the the it's it's it's horrific. I mean it made my blood run cold, but the only the thing that was heartening was at least on YouTube we were saying earlier that it's got 64 likes and about 5,000 dislikes, which uh was at least vaguely heartening. But you we we talked about how you know so often people want to dehumanize these babies, but here they put a baby on the screen, yeah, an actual lovely baby. So you're everyone's looking at this baby going, Oh, doesn't this baby deserve to be loved and wanted and whatnot? And then she deserved to be a choice. You're like, hang on a second. And then it's like stand with Planned Parenthood, like the abortion people, you're like So so what are you saying? If if if the baby was an accident. If it was an accident, yeah, or if the baby isn't loved or wanted or yeah, it was an accident, well we should have abortions.
SPEAKER_07I mean no babies are accidents, you know it's yeah, absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_04It's uh it's it's mind-boggling really that someone could put that up there. And I mean I am heartened that I've I've seen very little positive things.
SPEAKER_07There was that other thing, wasn't there? The um campaign on Twitter. It was um shout your abortion. Hashtag shout your abortion.
SPEAKER_04Okay, I didn't see that.
SPEAKER_07And like the idea was that you um sort of put I had an abortion when I was thing and it you know everything went well and whatever, and then you get hashtag shout your abortion and it was kind of to promote abortion, but it went terribly wrong because loads of people, you know, were horrified about you know the actual I mean it's one thing it's one thing, isn't it, to have an abortion. Um it's another thing to be proud of.
SPEAKER_04To be proud and shout at it from the rooftops as if as if you know it it it's it means nothing. Um you know, as I watched that video as well, it made me think I mean it just if if people can take a what a a a baby and put it on the screen and and and not feel anything is wrong with that video, or obviously lots of people have, but the people who made it didn't. It's not many more steps to well, what about the toddler? You know, like if you get to the toddler and you go, well actually we just don't we don't l we don't love this this toddler anymore. We we don't want it. Actually, child was an accident, so you do you start justifying killing toddlers, and of course there are people, there are ethicists who are pushing those down those roads already. You could apply it to the other end of the spectrum, couldn't you? You know, what about old people sitting unloved and unwanted in care homes? Yeah. Do we just say, right, well, just pop into this shower over here and we'll finish you off? Like the mind boggles that you can put that on the screen.
SPEAKER_07We've heard that before, you know, putting people in showers.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, those that we don't want anymore, you know, those, you know, that yeah. We've got some I mean, comment here, Ian McCarthy. I've been pondering the tragic and very visible deaths in the crash at Leicester FC in in contrast with the 800 discrete abortion fatalities per week. Uh sorry, per working day referred to on a recent live cast. And that's interesting, isn't it? There's this kind of great outpouring over uh I think it was about was it five people that died in the helicopter crash at Leicester City the other week. Um and but yet and and and of course, you know, understandable grief. But yet there is this 800 babies a day thing going on. And I mean, and that's the thing I think we're as guilty of this as Christians, aren't we?
SPEAKER_07That we it's because it's hidden, you know, when you see it on the surface, you know you you haven't you don't know these babies, you know, you haven't seen them uh grow up or or whatever. They they're kind of silently coming in and out of existence.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um so what you don't see, it's hard to feel bad, you know, feel sorry for in a sense because you don't see I don't see them come and go. And it is sort of behind closed doors.
SPEAKER_04Which I think is is why it's so important for that light to be shone on some of these things. And you know, we're gonna over the next few weeks we're hoping we will have some videos um on abortion. Um we'll be responding to that advert and amongst other things. Um but you know, we we feel we need to say something and do something. Um it'll be interesting to know from people what you know, because when we talked about abortion a few weeks ago after conference, there was a lot of people kind of saying they were feeling strongly about this and what and what do we do, you know. Um and it'd be interesting to know what resources people think you know they they need, what what can we do that can help? Um because we'd love to in a sense, uh I'm I you know, uh we don't just want to poke at it a little bit, you want something that is gonna help people, and I think particularly the thing I was struck by with Brefos was the waking up the church, that the church needs to wake up and see um the severity of this and you know, and we talk about the language, you know, John's talking about the language. I mean we we we wouldn't sugarcoat our language about um about about people being led into showers and you know stuck into railway carts and taken off to camps. We wouldn't feel that we couldn't you know we didn't we we wouldn't condemn that. Um and maybe we need to speak up more. But I think particularly what he says, you know, he I mean he says, doesn't he, about how the images of abortion are hidden away, you know women are not allowed to see uh women are not, you know, to see their their babies after they've been aborted. Many women who've had abortions uh uh n and are not even aware of quite what's gone on. Um many people in the street aren't so it's it is hidden away.
SPEAKER_07Um and they at the conference they showed this um video that was done by one of the abortion clinics and you know there's a s a little slideshow at the beginning um sort of explaining what will happen when someone goes for an abortion and it you sort of you know it's very much like a you know a hair salon. You know, you kind of then you wait in the waiting room and then you're called and then the abortion happens, and what they did is they cut in actually what happens. You know, that they actually showed you the abortion happening, and then they cut back to it, and then you'll be taken back into the waiting room and you're given a cup of tea, and you know, it was chilling, really.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Um yeah, yeah, absolutely. And uh yeah, I mean it is just shocking, really. It's hard to when you start to get your head around it, it's hard to you you can't understand how on earth it can be going on, really.
SPEAKER_07But and there's there's an the an organisation that's going round sho sort of showing pictures like um seafold um brochures, so you sort of have to open them to to show you what an abortion is like. And uh they show people on the streets and people have never seen these pictures before. They they sort of say, Oh, no, I never knew it was like that. And wasn't it uh Dr. Callum on the previous um video he was saying that um he described, he read from Wikipedia what happens in an abortion. Well, I think people didn't believe in it.
SPEAKER_04I think Glenn says it out in this interview. Um but yeah, I think he does come up in the I might come up in that one as well. Yeah, that people can't even comprehend that that would be true. No, that's it. Surely not like that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07But uh he does, and you know, they're saying, well maybe that is the way is to show people the horror of it. You know, I mean I bet the people in the war didn't see the see the all the horror. Well, they didn't see all the horror that was going on in the gas chambers until afterwards.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And uh you know it's painful to see these images, but perhaps that's what we need.
SPEAKER_04And I think uh John uses a really helpful phrase and he says when we talk about abortion, we must talk about abortion with tears in our eyes. And and that's where he's talking about this mingling of grace and truth, that we have this prophetic element of shining light onto darkness and saying, look, this is what's going on. Um but also recognising that as we speak that truth that can be immensely painful um because the truth can hurt and because it will hurt people who've had abortions. Um people may feel either they didn't know that's what had happened or um they may feel like they're being attacked. Um whereas John says, you know, actually we need both sides, we need the truth, but we need the grace, and actually if you have all the truth but none of the grace, you end up, you know, hard and harsh. Yeah. And if you just have the grace with none of the truth, then actually you end up kind of peddling a kind of cheap grace, and you you you're not really helping the problem at all. Um I think that's what the church needs to rise rise up to really. Um so, you know, and I I think it'll be good, you know, that's why in these resources hopefully we'll find a way of something churches can use. I mean one of the things John talks about on here is he says, you know, in a sense science is is slightly further ahead of the church in some ways, in that the the chur uh science is looking at all these images of these babies in the womb um earlier and earlier and earlier and kind of marvelling at it and going, isn't this amazing? Whilst kind of also slightly strangely abortion is still going on. But actually the church isn't very good at marvelling at creation, you know. We we we tend not to talk about the wonders of creation so much as we end up talking about slightly more more spiritual things if I use that phrase. Um and like we need, I suppose, you know, in our in our preaching, I mean it was helpful to to go back to things like Psalm 139 or to think about John the Baptist in the womb and Jesus in the womb, and um we need to see those things. Um so yeah, yeah. But we'd love to, yeah, we wanna we wanna do something, we want to help people, we want to help the church, so let us know things we can do. Um great, I think we're we're pretty much pretty much out of time. We did the we've done the classic thing where we said um probably won't take that long this week and uh early this week and we've carried on talking anyway. Um hopefully it's been helpful stuff for you. Guys, do uh thank you for watching. Um do check out some of the links below. Um you can listen to the adultery tool, you can go and find out about the foundries, sign up for emails, do think about supporting us financially if you feel you could do that, that'd be wonderful. Um and um let us know, let us know things things we can help with in terms of this issue on abortion ideas uh of things we can uh put out there. So thank you very much. Uh, hope you have a good week, and we'll see you next time. See ya. Cheers. Bye.