The Speak Life Podcast.
SPEAKER_05Sharing Jesus in everyday life.
SPEAKER_02Are you sitting comfortably? Then let's do science. I'm very excited too, children. If you want to join in with us at Christendom TV, here's what you will need. In order to do science, you will need three things. First of all, you need a world out there. Can you all do that, children? A world out there. Very good, that's right. You need one rationally comprehensible universe, not just any universe. You'll need to be particular here. It must be a rationally comprehensible, rationally ordered cosmos, not a chaos, a cosmos. I really must insist on this point. If you skimp on this ingredient and opt for one of those cheaper, random universes, it's almost certain that your science won't work, and you'll be nothing but helium hanging in a cold, dead expanse of microwave radiation. So, boys and girls, trust me on this. You need a world out there, and it is well worth splashing out on a properly ordered universe. You'll thank me later. Secondly, we're gonna need laws up above. Can you do that, children? Laws up above, very good. You will need one consistent set of discoverable laws. Now, don't worry if you don't know what those laws are yet. That's kind of the point, isn't it? It's fun to discover them. But even if you don't know what the laws are yet, you need to trust that there are discoverable, rationally ordered laws, and what's that? How do we know that there is such a profound cosmic harmony to explore? Well, children, if you've been following our lesson plan on Christendom TV, I'd have thought that would be obvious to you by now. But listen, if you're genuinely starting to doubt the reality of cosmic harmony, your science will suffer. So I suggest going back to lesson one in the curriculum and working your way back here. As you may realize, science really does require some pretty extraordinary faith commitments. So it's best to get your foundations firm. Okay, so thirdly, you will need minds in here. Can you do that, children? Minds in here, very good. You need rational minds to grasp the mysteries of the cosmos. Now I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, where am I gonna get a rational mind from? Well, once again, children, I urge you not to be seduced by the cheap imitations. Some children will tell you they can knock up a rational mind just by turbocharging some old bits of brain. But seriously, if you want to trust mere brain chemistry fizzing away in your skull, that's your own lookout. My recipe calls for minds. Don't come to my class with mere brains that are adapted only to the needs of survival. In my classroom, we deal with minds, minds that respond to truth. That, if you ask me, is the only sustainable way to do science. But uh, I'm old-fashioned like that. Well, there you have it. The three ingredients you need to do science. Can we remember them? There's an ordered world out there, there's laws up above, and there's minds in here. Now, before you all complain, before you all complain, I know that none of you can afford these ingredients. I'm sorry about that. When we're dealing with such valuable things, there's really no way around it. All I can say to you is this if you want to do science, and I sincerely hope that you do, children, you can't take shortcuts. You must have these ingredients. And if you don't have them, and you don't, then ask a grown-up. Welcome to the show! Hello everybody.
SPEAKER_04How's everybody doing? You're okay.
SPEAKER_02I've got a mouthful.
SPEAKER_04And then I can go get my mouth as well. We're not done this well really, have we?
SPEAKER_02Feel free to just munch away as you watch. Paul has the dread of So he's gonna fill this uh soundproof booth with his germs. Airtight, just we should we should have made you like beam this in from Crowbra.
SPEAKER_04Passing us through with the rubber gloves.
SPEAKER_02So Paul is a little bit radioactive uh today, a bit toxic. Yep, just a tad, not that bad. You've been feeling toxic since when? Oh, about Saturday. Really? Yeah. Because Saturday you were up in Alexandra Palace, is that right? Were you starting to feel bad then? Um. Hmm, good question.
SPEAKER_04Hmm. It was coming on to you. I think I felt bad on Friday, and then on Saturday I got like a second wind. Okay. And then Sunday it came with a vengeance. Interesting. Finished me off. And then yeah, yesterday. Well, yesterday was not brilliant, but Okay.
SPEAKER_02So Well, we'll we'll think about m why you might have got a second win on Saturday in a bit. Uh, because we had a very interesting outreach on Saturday and Sunday up at Alexandra Palace. We'll uh tell you more about that uh in a second, but uh uh I just feel like I need to explain the monologue. And apologize. Doesn't speak for itself? It kind of does. Well, maybe. Um so yeah, just a little thing on on science that I've been um I've kind of had this idea about science requiring these three things that need to triangulate for a while. And uh in fact I put it into 321 uh back in 2014 when that book came out. But um, yeah, those those three things that science requires, I I think it's really important in our evangelism to get that clear so that it becomes obvious that um when Christians are talking about science, actually we're not talking about a God of the gaps. Um people might know what the a God of the gaps is. It's kind of this idea that we're as scientific knowledge increases, our need for God decreases because God is just, you know, God is just this proxy answer for things we don't understand, which um is not the way Christians think about things. Um we don't believe in a God of the gaps, we believe in a God of the whole show. So actually, what we really believe in as Christians is that there is uh a world out there, there are laws up above, and there are minds in here. All of those are dependent on the kind of being that God is. And because God has given us a sort of a dependable world out there that operates according to iron laws of physics, well, not iron laws of physics, but but but at least, you know, dependable, reliable laws um of nature, and because he's given us minds in here, because he wants us as human beings to be able to grasp something of the mysteries of the cosmos, because he wants to have a relationship with us, because those three things triangulate on the Christian understanding, therefore you can go out into the world and do science. And if that's the kind of the understanding, then every single scientific discovery does not shrink God. Um it it actually confirms God. Because every every single discovery is a discovery of a human mind going out into the world and discovering a law. And the fact that those three things triangulate does not shrink God, it just confirms the biblical hypothesis that there is a God of order. So that's basically it. Um just done with a bit of crazy hair. Crazy hair. And you say that's pretty much normal for me. That's you know, I just wake up and it's like this. You know, I I guess I call myself blessed. So that's that's for you. So if you want to use this triangulation, world out there, laws up above, minds in here. I think and it's written into page one of the Bible as well, like Genesis chapter one. You've basically got the the word creates all things, God said, God said, God said. This is world of order that sort of operates according to times and seasons. And then you've got humanity created in God's image, wanting to rule and have dominion over them. So people sometimes say that Genesis one is kind of a science killer. I I say it's actually the foundation for science. Right. Um you need the world out there, the laws up above, the minds in here. So there you go. Nice. That's for free. We just thought we'd come straight out of the straight out of the gate and give you give you stuff rather than the the normal nonsense that we uh that we witter on with. Um but Paul, where were we last year? Not last year, last week. Yeah, yeah. Where were we? On the 23rd of October.
SPEAKER_04No, where were we? Yeah, Tuesday, wasn't it? Yeah, so last week uh we weren't here, were we? Because we were it was Monday we did our live cast, wasn't it? So last Tuesday we travelled up to London, up to the big smoke, um, and we went to the Brefos conference, and the Brefos Conference um Brefos was it it was titled Brefos Protecting the Unborn, wasn't it? And it was a series of I don't know, it was about five or six speakers, weren't there, who were there all speaking on different aspects of uh abortion from kind of different angles, um, from uh I mean the the aim was really I think it's for it was for equipping church leaders, wasn't it? Yeah, or or churches. How do we address this issue in our church? Um so you know, how can we preach on it? But also, you know, how do you sub you know, there was a lady there who'd who'd had an abortion and she was talking about the the course she runs for people who've been affected by abortion, which isn't just necessarily women who've had abortions, but you know, families and others as well. Um and there were people talking from a medical perspective, there were people talking from a kind of social action perspective. Um we had a guy called Johnny Pham who was over from China, wasn't he? And he was talking about his experiences over there, um, and what he's getting up to with his church. Um Yeah, and it it was incredibly it was an incredibly powerful day, really. Yeah. Um eye opening. Certainly eye-opening. Um I think Yeah, I mean I'm not sure I'd really realise the scale of abortion in this country. Yeah. Um eight hundred every working day. That was it. That was the that was the thing, wasn't it? Eight hundred every working day. Yeah. I said something like wasn't it around one in one in four or five of all pregnancies ends in abortion?
SPEAKER_02I think it's one in four globally, and it's one in five in the UK. Right, okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and the th I mean the statistic that shocked me as well was that 39% of people who had an abortion had already had a previous abortion. Yes. Yeah and yeah, I mean I I wasn't particularly shocked that people might have had multiple abortions, but that's almost you know, it's near forty percent, you know. I kind of think that just seems like an incredibly high number that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what yeah, one in three women um in in the course of their reproductive lives will have had an abortion. Um and and you know, and that that puts um sort of faces to what can often just be a a a discussion that's about ideas or a discussion that's about um principles. Um and so it's yeah, I I found it really important um to have heard from you know a woman who has had an abortion. I felt it really helpful to have heard from um Professor John Wyatt, who's uh a professor of neonatal um pediatrics. And um and he w he he was great sort of saying, you know, the ch the church needs to have kind of grace and truth as we speak of on this issue. Um yes, there's the truth, you know, laid out there, but also we need to speak with with grace, we need to speak with compassion, we need to speak, he said, incarnationally as well as prophetically on this issue. And I I I thought that was really that was really worthwhile saying.
SPEAKER_04And you know, he helpfully uh highlighted some of the contradictions in our society, really, that you know, he was saying here he is, he works a lot with premature babies you know in the hospital, and he says, you know, there we are having uh babies being born prematurely, and I think he said he said the youngest child he'd ever treated who survived was twenty-one weeks and six days. Right. Um so obviously extremely premature. He said, But yet if you go up one floor in the hospital, you can find the abortion unit where you know babies are being killed who are older and stronger than these babies downstairs, and he said, you know, it costs two thousand pounds a day around that to keep these children alive. Yeah. You might spend over a hundred thousand pounds, you know, of money, and as a society, we clearly think that's a good thing because we're willing to do it. Right. Um but yet if you go upstairs, not the same at all, right, right. Um, and just how un how strange that really is.
SPEAKER_02And what is the s what is the morally significant difference between those two cases? Because you know, one one child is stronger than the other, and yet that's the child that that is terminated. Um what is the morally significant difference between the two? And and unfortunately, the the morally significant difference that that we we we believe to be the case is one is wanted and one is not. So it is about the the desires of the strong um over those of the weak. And uh yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and the statistics, you know, I mean uh it was saying, wasn't it, it was around two percent of all abortions uh are for bit done because of disabilities. Right. And you know, you might want to debate the rightness or wrongness of that anyway, but it's a very small percent. Yeah. And only one in one in two thousand were done because of a risk to the mother's life.
SPEAKER_03Right. Right.
SPEAKER_04And so it's clear that in the large and vast majority of cases of abortion, they're not happening because they need to happen for any particular reason.
SPEAKER_02Right. Um Right, yes. Or what about rape? And again, significantly less than one percent of of of of all abortions happen in in that circumstance as well.
SPEAKER_04So Yeah, and I think that's a tricky one, and you know, I've I I I was very struck by the whole conference, and someone said to me afterwards, what about cases like that? So someone not at the conference, but when I was back home. And actually I uh so I'd heard I think it was Ben Shapiro who was asked about this, and he said, you know, I think obviously rape is a terrible thing. He said, But in in the case of rape, you have someone who uh a mother who is a victim. We do not solve the problem by creating two victims. Right. And the unborn being the victim of the abortion. Yeah, yeah, and so so you you know, killing the the child.
SPEAKER_02Um I think there's just a lot of things like that.
SPEAKER_04But I mean the thing that I think the th the thing that struck me was they were talking about they they did kind of an example preach you know, at the end, kind of how you might preach on this in your church. And it struck me that in 32 years I've never heard a talk on abortion in my church, not or in any church specifically on that topic. And I I don't really think I've heard anyone ever use it in application. Right. Um I mean I'm sure maybe I could, you know, say maybe someone on an offhand in application has said, you know, from a political point of view, you know, who do we vote for? Protecting the unboard, but not like let's look at this issue and let's talk about it.
SPEAKER_02Or let's minister to if one in three women have had an abortion. Well you are you're preaching.
SPEAKER_04And that was the two sides of the preach, which I thought were really helpful. There was the kind of the the uh the truth side, this is this is a great evil going on, but the grace side of saying there are people in our churches who have gone through this and they may have felt that they are been unable to tell anyone else in the church, and if that's the case, then we failed them as a church. Right. And actually, you know, we're supposed to mourn with those who mourn and weep with those who weep. And in a sense, we should be saying to people not that it you know, not this doesn't matter if you've done this, but you know, uh we do not condemn you, and there's no condemnation in Christ, you know, God's grace is sufficient for you, it's not like it's still a taboo, isn't it? Really, in it's a taboo in society, it's a taboo in the church as well. Um because people don't talk about it and we feel like we shouldn't talk about it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um but if they don't feel safe enough with us to confess that kind of thing, you know, some of that's on us, you know. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04And so, you know, that that's where the lady Pauline Peachy, who was speaking out, you know, her course that she's put together, the post-abortion recovery course, I thought was a really helpful thing, sounded great. Um, I think she said, you know, it's run by people who've had abortions, and you can see how actually a church could minister to women in that way, and then it may be that those women as well will come through that and therefore can minister to other women. You know, if it is one in three, statistically in your church, I mean you'd like to think it was less, but who knows? But in society, I mean there's gotta be all around.
SPEAKER_02There might even be a case for it being more in Christian scenarios where you would feel such shame at having a child out of wedlock that you might want to cover it up. Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. But it's it struck me that you know where I live, like um we live in a I live in a really kind of quite well-off middle class area, upper middle class area. And you know, so there's I mean there there is a food bank and stuff like that, but I mean there's no homeless people on the streets. You don't you don't have these kind of issues as you look around of very obvious things going on. But it struck me as I sat through the day that actually I of course I'm not saying those things don't go on, of course there's you know poverty like that in them but hidden away in some ways, it's not on the surface. But it struck me that kind of in nice middle class societies those things are going on far more probably behind closed doors. So in my context, probably something like the abortion issue there's probably lots of people who've been affected by it. Yes. Or are being affected by it. Um and but yet as as a church we don't really probably don't talk about these things. Right, right. And I think the preach was really because there were a number of things that struck me. First there was the the images we saw of abortion. Now I've seen I've seen them before and I think I it's been interesting since I got back home that I kind of assume that other people, particularly particularly Christians, I don't know why particularly Christians, I'm kind of assuming that we all know what abortion looks like because this is the age of the internet. You know, how can you have avoided it? But as I've talked to people, I've realized people have not seen abortion. Right. Um and actually it was laid bare in you know quite horrific ways. You know, we saw video of uh what was it like an eight-week, a fifteen week, and a twenty-two-week abortion. We saw the images from China of the the bodies of babies, you know, hundreds of babies piled up in the backyard of the abortion clinic just thrown into in rags. It struck me that people just uh people haven't seen this. And one of the ladies, uh Ashleen, I forget her surname now. Hubert. Hubert, that's it. She was talking about how she was talking more from an activist point of view. Um how do you bring social change? And her thing was saying that actually social change never occurs until you change public opinion. So she looked back at slavery and said, Wilberforce struggled to push stuff through Parliament until Thomas Clarkson rode around on horseback for six months around the country with pictures of slavery, and people saw this and were horrified because they'd not seen it. Um Rosa Park sat on the bus because they saw the pictures of Emmett Till, the 14-year-old boy who'd been beaten to a pulp, you know, and then his mother did an open casket for the media to come and see. Um Martin Luther King very much uh deliberately took his peaceful protest to places he knew were had racist police forces so they could have photographs taken of dogs attacking them and policemen beating them. Because he said America needed to be shamed in the eyes of the world. And you know, I was talking to a few other people about this, and they said, Oh, it's a bit like I think Andy might have said it, you know, Vietnam. We see the picture of the the famous picture of the girl burnt by the napalm. Yeah, yeah. Or David Cameron saw the the picture of the the Syrian boy washed up on the beach. Yeah. And it changed public opinion because people saw it and they were horrified. Everybody knew about it, you know, everybody had heard these things. Right. But when you see it, suddenly and so their thing was like, actually, there's a place for us as Christians or just e you know, they said there's a lot of stuff which isn't necessarily even a religious position, you know. There's a position just to show people these images and say this is what it is, and they had footage of them talking to people on the street saying, What do you think of abortion? And they'd say, Well, I'm a you know, some would say I'm against it, but I think if someone wants to do it, it's their choice. And they'd see the pictures and they'd just be like flabbergasted. Yeah. They used kids, you know, teenagers saying, We never saw this in school, they never showed us this. No. Um, no. And I think, you know, that's so there's something powerful in those you can you can't look at those pictures and say, Yeah, Oh, that's not a human being. Right. You know, I think that's what it comes down to. And you know, you talk about the la I think the thing that struck me was that we had this whole, you know, when he preached, the preach was on The Good Samaritan and it just dawned, you know, as that kind of moment part way through where you kind of get that killer blow of, you know, like what are we gonna do?
SPEAKER_02Are we gonna be the ones who just see and walk on by?
SPEAKER_04And I think that struck me because um because I I think I've thought about abortion before and I think, yeah, this is terrible, but like oh I shouldn't post about this or do something about this, you know, because it's it causes a lot of yeah, it's the taboo thing and it's it's upsetting for people and it causes controversy. But when you start to see it on the same you know, when they start talking about the la way language is used, you know, they talk about the pregnancy, products of conception, yeah, fetuses, terminating the pregnancy, yeah. They dehumanize and they're saying, you know, this is the same as white slave traders calling black people Negroes, this is the same as the Nazis referring to Jews as picked up. And you just think like would we We say the same about a genocide that was going on. Right. Like if people were being herded into gas chambers, would we say, probably shouldn't say anything about this because it might be a bit controversial?
SPEAKER_02Sure. Um You'd have to manage the language and you'd have to manage the images. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And it yeah, so I mean I just thought like this is you know, and I think that should uh I we know that if you're growing up in Nazi Germany, you know, it it mustn't it can't have been easy to s to stand up and say something.
SPEAKER_02Most didn't. Of course. Exactly.
SPEAKER_04But there's part of us, you know, at least part of me that goes, you know, I'd like to think that as they were rounding people up, I would say you shouldn't be doing this, this is wrong. Right. But yet here I realised actually I'm in exactly that position and I'm not saying anything.
SPEAKER_02Well Peter Hitchens makes exactly that point. He said, Yeah, we never need to wonder what we would do in the face of a horrible genocidal emergency. Yeah. Because we're in it. Because we're in one. And we're not doing it. And we do nothing. Yeah. Right. And s and that and that whole idea of controlling what we see and controlling what we say, I I think that that really came across in John White's talk for me. He just gave this ill illustration of when parents come for the 12-week scan, the one thing that the person doing the 12-week scan needs to know is is it a wanted pregnancy? And that's that's the one thing that they want to know as as they're you know doing the ultrasounds. Because if it's not a wanted pregnancy, then they tilt the screen away from the mother. Yep. They just talk about the pregnancy. The pregnancy is progressing, as we would expect. They don't use any language of baby, any language like that. No. Um so you don't you don't see and you don't use you know the correct terminology. Whereas if the child is wanted, then you tilt the screen towards mum, and maybe dad's there as well, and you say, Oh, look, it looks like he's got dad's chin, and and and you start talking about the baby. And everything, everything is different in that instance. And of course, again, the only morally significant difference between those two states is the baby is wanted in one in state, and it they are unwanted in the other state. And in the unwanted state, you control what people see and you control what people say. And that's that's exactly you know, the the only way that abortion can can happen is it's controlled what people say. We talk about fetuses, we talk about terminating pregnancies rather than terminating babies. And we control what people see and people people don't see it. And and I it it you know, I think in in all this it it it should be it should be clear that yes, um the mother's health and rights and choice needs to be absolutely you know guarded and s lifted up. But I I I really like what um uh the um Evangelical Alliance in Northern Ireland sort of uh produced uh when there was the abortion um uh referendum in in Ireland last year, and uh their big slogan was both lives matter. Both lives matter, which I thought, yeah, that's that's where Christians come down, I I think. It's like, yeah, we can have conversations and we're not saying it's easy when there is a rape, or we can't we're not saying it's easy when the mother's life is in danger. At that but at that stage we just want to say there are b there are two lives here. Yep. Can we just rather than skipping over the humanity of the unborn and then try to have a conversation about you know the the the twelve-week emergency that this mother is facing. Yes, there is an emergency that this mother at twelve weeks just gestation is facing. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But why do we why do we jump over everything else? Let's let's first acknowledge and prize and protect the humanity, the personhood of the unborn, and then let's have that difficult conversation. It's it's it's a case of both lives matter.
SPEAKER_04And I think like you know what so so I I know like it's I'm more likely to get riled up on the kind of like this is a wrong thing side of it. And I think that's where things like Pauline Peachy's side was helpful, that she was saying like abortion uh, you know it's not only a women's issue because uh because it does affect others, but I mean even the extent to which she just showed that it was a women's issue, that you know, she's saying you know, the just the uh the the kind of uh what's the word I'm looking for? I don't know. Uh what is it when you know when you you you you take a medicine and there's something else happens, medical effects side effects, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's ill today, he is ill. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um even the side effects, you know, she uh so there's things I think often it's portrayed as you know, you go and have your abortion and then the problem with your life, you know. And actually she was talking about you know things like the flashbacks, nightmares, repetitive and distressing sensations, physical issues like pain, sweating, nausea, mood swings, self-medicating, self-harm, difficulties concentrating, insomnia, unhealthy relationships, you know, all kinds of stuff, which and I think John Wyatt was talking about post-traumatic stress. He was saying about now they're doing more with drugs, um people are literally passing bits of baby into the toilet, you know. Imagine you know, imagine being at home by yourself, yeah, and that's what you see. Um so there was that aspect, but then also, you know, she was talking about a friend of hers who whose daughter had an abortion who then couldn't live with herself and took her own life. And so she's saying, you know, I've lost a daughter and a grandchild. Yeah. And obviously that's affected her, and then there was the husband who she met outside an abortion clinic who whose wife was having an abortion, he didn't want her to have the abortion, and the medics had said, you know, when he was in, you know, you she they said, you don't say anything, because if you speak we'll kick you out, this is nothing to do with you.
SPEAKER_01And you're like Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04You know, and you can just see, and they and she was saying, you know, there are other people who've been affected who'd find out, you know, even if they found out, you know, a parent had had an abortion, um that that in itself brought pain in families. Yeah. So actually it wasn't just a single life that was destroyed, actually, lots of people's lives were affected and destroyed by these things.
SPEAKER_02When we start talking about, you know, there's a crisis in mental health and all that sort of stuff, and and peop people will point to all sorts of like factors, and you know, maybe Instagram is to is to blame, but you know, maybe it's because we're killing our babies too. You know, maybe maybe that's part of part of it. And how do you how do you cope with that? You know? And you know, we we had a great question from um Richard Smith who says uh you know how Jesus says um the punishment will be far greater for hurting children. I think he's referring to it'd be better if a millstone was tied around your neck than to cause a little one to to stumble. So uh perhaps he's got that that view in mind. Jesus wants to protect the little children, he says, let the little children come to me. He says, Therefore, will it be the same for abortion? I.e., will there be far greater punishment for hurting children? Well, I think there's lots of things that go into any kind of moral moral judgment. Um that's the case in in human courts of law, and I think it's the case with with God. There are all sorts of mitigating circumstances, and there are all sorts of degrees of knowledge and degrees of you know whether people know what it is that they're doing. And I think all the pro-life groups I know about consider the woman uh a victim in the abortion. Not as much as the unborn child, but but she she is a victim too of an abortion mill that is this conveyor belt.
SPEAKER_04Well, that's something that came out again with like Pauline Peachy's saying about, you know, they showed some pictures of here are children who, you know, have been saved from abortion, you know, now they're grown up, you know, they're older and they're they're going on well. And she was saying about you know, she they would meet mums outside the clinic and they would s the mums would see these pictures and they had no idea that that's what they were going inside to do. Right. You know, they were going in for an abortion, but they didn't know it looked like that that that was what was going to happen. Right. Um and you know, we saw the video, didn't we? I think it was the Mary Stopes Clinic, you know, which talks you through your day of what it will be like. Conveniently leaving out the Mary Stopes clinically. You don't actually see on their video. It just cuts straight to you know the next room you're in a recovery room where it looks like a kind of almost like a day spa, you know, you're sitting there reading newspapers. Yeah. Um and people so even people who've gone through it had no idea really, because they've been unconscious, no idea what's happened. Right.
SPEAKER_02Um Right. Yeah. So people sometimes ask, you know, why, you know, we're an evangelistic charity and I'm an evangelist and and this is, you know, what I really want to do is get out there with the good news. So why why muddy the waters by talking about, you know, a social issue like this? And I mean, one answer I'm I'm more and more coming to is that at the heart of Christianity is Christmas and Easter. And I think Christmas and Easter absolutely speak into this issue massively. So at Christmas, Jesus became an embryo. You know, he was conceived by the the the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary. So, right from conception, like if if you believe in Jesus, you believe that he became our brother, he was one with us from conception. Yeah. So in the same way that he became my brother, he be he became a human for the sake of all humans, right? He became my brother for the sake of the whole human family, he became an embryo for embryos, you know, he became a fetus for fetuses, he became a the unborn for the unborn. And so when Jesus reaches down in order to love and save us, he reaches all the way down to a single cell in Mary's womb. And therefore, if if God is concerned right to that level from the f from that single cell in the womb, um, then so should we be. And and that's so so Christmas makes me think this way, but also Easter makes me think this way. I I go to sort of 1 Corinthians 1, and it's so interesting how the Apostle Paul takes the cross, and he says, you can either think in terms of a theology of glory or a theology of the cross. You know, this is Luther kind of picked up on this language as well, but a theology of glory is to think in the Greek sense about power and wisdom, and that's what God must be like, and that's what we must be like. We must be this auto these autonomous individuals who are wise and who are strong. And and Paul is saying, no, if if you meditate on the cross, you will realize that actually it's the despised things of this world and the weak things and the things that are not that are prized by God. That actually Jesus, again, he plunges down to the to the pit in order to love us and protect us and save us. And so in a world that's always prizing the strong and wanting to give choices and independence and sovereignty to the strong, it's it's actually God who goes to the vulnerable and to the weak and to the dependent. And how much more vulnerable, weak, and dependent can you get than the unborn? Yeah. You know, they are meant to be protected by us, and yet the womb is perhaps the most dangerous place we will ever be. Um and and then when you start to thinking about, you know, as as I preach on the issue of sin, for instance, um, I think abortion is an interesting example of something that like like you say, even even the women who are going through with this aren't really aware of what they're doing, and none of us as a culture are willing to look it in the eye, call it what it is, and show it for what it is. Or we'll just justi or we'll justify it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So that's the other that's another side of our sin, isn't it? That we can you know, like so so I think I said to you, maybe I I think it maybe we talked about it last week that I'd had that conversation after church where someone had taken offence to me saying that we're saved by blood of the lamb, we're judged on the blood of the lamb, nothing else. And he said, you know, I've been around the world and people are basically good. And I said later in the week, I wish I'd been to that conference, you know, two days earlier. Yeah. Because I would have said to him, Really? You think we're basically good? You aware of this thing? And but of course everyone knows abortion's happening. Right. But we somehow we've kind of just let it we've just let it brush, you know, brushed it under the carpet in a kind of Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and it like it's it's happening, but oh it's a it's one of those things, isn't it, that we don't like but or some of us don't like. And we can kind of let's let it go on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. So when people are sort of saying like when if if people come back to me and say, what really? Like humanity's under judgment? Really? Like the the wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against what? We're basically fine. You know, to be able to say, yeah, we do kill two hundred thousand babies a year just in this country, that makes you think, doesn't it? You know? Yep. And it certainly sort of it ought to wake us up to the kinds of things that that God says about humanity, that we are really twisted and warped, and there is this culture of death, and that we then justify it. And call evil good and I was looking up.
SPEAKER_04I was trying to look up a bit of stuff from that Johnny fan guy from China, and one of his quotes was that in China abortion is as common as drinking water. Right. You know? Right. Like it's just just what you do, isn't it? I think he said when he was there at this the conference that the idea of being pro-life in China just didn't even it wasn't even really a concept. Right. It's just so outside of the culture. Yeah. It's not like there's these people and that people on different sides, it was just, well, what's pro-life? What what are you talking about? You know?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04And there's like you say, there's just that death there all the time. Yeah. And I mean he was talking about he the thing that struck him was having seen these awful images. He was saying that they were only I think it was only a few days or weeks away from their National Children's Day where they celebrate children. And he said it struck him that these people are gonna go to work, they're gonna kill all these babies, and then probably go home to their families in the evening with their children and celebrate children. Yeah, you know, and he's saying it just struck him that this was completely bananas.
SPEAKER_02But those children are the ones that we want, those children are the ones that we don't. So we turn a blind eye to them. Yeah. You know.
SPEAKER_04And I I I don't know what to do about it. That's the thing. Yeah. That's the thing that came out of it. Like, although you know, I want to talk, you know, I I I felt I feel convicted like we need to talk about this in church, we need to preach on it with grace and truth. So we need to be unashamed in standing up and saying this is wrong, but you know, there will be people who've had abortions and we want to love you and want to care for you and help you and support you. Um but I think you know, we've got to start almost in our own house, you know, yeah with the church and talk about this first. Absolutely. But you know, I you know, and and I was very struck by it, and I I you know, I uh when I got home and Becca was saying, like, oh you know, how was your day? And I was trying to tell her about it, and I was just crying. Yeah. I just broke down. I said, you know, I've I was trying to tell her about this stuff in China and I couldn't get it out. You know, I was saying, I said, Oh, you know, you the the the pictures. Yeah. I said, you know, and I'd seen it before, but it had just kind of come home in a in a different way. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, we've got to do what do we do? What do we what do we have? I guess we've got law and gospel, don't we? And you know, the law comes and says, This is reality, look. Um not so that there are those nasty abortionists over there and you know, here we are free, because actually, you know, the I mean the the the sexual revolution and everything that's associated with that in terms of free and easy pornography and free and it free and easy attitudes to sex and all all that kind of stuff, that is absolutely driving, you know, all of this. Um which is therefore, you know, a culture that we're all kind of complicit in. Um men who are not proper men taking responsibility and stepping up to the plate and being there for their families, that's a that's a huge part of this.
SPEAKER_04And I think as well, like it there is that kind of for us as or at least I felt like they're kind of you don't want to rock not the the desire not to rock the boat is strong. Even even after coming back from that, like, because we were talking and we'll hopefully find out someone's commented about it here, but hopefully we'll find out what happened with this Diana Johnson ten-minute rule bill today.
SPEAKER_02Yes, if anyone knows what happened with the bill today that Fiona Bruce was opposing uh in Parliament the ten-minute rule bill, uh let us know in the comments. Uh Regan, thank you for commenting. But yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um and she said, you know, Fiona Bruce said you you you need to get onto MP. Um so on Wednesday, the day after, I I basically found the kind of you know, the the copy and paste type email you could use and I emailed like everybody in my church that I knew, and I just said, I've been to this thing and this is what's happening, and you need to see this, and you know. But I was thinking that as I was going through, I was just thinking, like, I've got no idea what these people are gonna say back to me. Like, and I didn't have anything negative. No one came back and said, Oh, I think you know, like you're really wrong on this and it's a person's choice or anything like that. But even in the church with Christians who I thought would be on my side, I was thinking like some people this could really get their backs up, yeah, and you're hesitant to hit send. Yeah. Just on that front. Yeah. But I mean, you know, I had a I mean, just just thinking here, just trying to find it, one lady who said, you know, I added something extra to this copy and paste, because she talked about when she had her first child who had Prada Willie syndrome, um, second time, second child, she had amniocentesis to see uh t to prepare her in case her second child had the same. Um and she said the doctor wanted me to sign a paper saying if the test proved that a child was disabled, I would abort him. Wow and I refused for the next several weeks. The results came back. Until the results came back, I was pressured by my doctor, my midwife, and health visitor. They tried everything, even telling me my decision to have a disabled baby might lead to me being classed as an unfit mother and losing the children.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04And you just think, what?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, like that that's the pressure on someone to John Wyatt was saying, he he was talking about the the the change in our attitudes for abortion. Uh he he was sort of saying the the first um in the first wave after uh the abortion bill came came in in in 1967, I think it was, um, it was all about compassion for the mother. We need to have compassion for the mother, that was the big argument. And then it was all about liberation, um it's the right of the mother, her body, her choice. But he was saying now we've moved into the like this third kind of argument for abortion, which is basically um it is your social responsibility to have one. So like Richard Dawkins famously tweeted a few years ago, you know, what what should I do if it turns out that my baby has Down syndrome, abort it and try again? Um was and that's that was portrayed not as a necessary evil, it was the moral thing. So that's the responsible thing, and how dare you bring into the world someone who is weak and dependent. And you're like, Well, that's that's all like all the other babies who just come out and you just they run wild and free straight away. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
unknownResult is in.
SPEAKER_02The result is in. What is it, Andy?
unknownUm Diana Johnson rule passes.
SPEAKER_02Okay, the Diana Johnson rule passes. Okay, so that's gonna go to um a a second reading of the decriminalization um of abortion um uh bill that's gonna go through for a second reading on the 23rd of November. Um if you want to find out more, uh, click the link that Regan King has put um into that. So that's that's a disappointment because today there was a 10-minute um members' bill uh where um Diane Johnson was proposing that abortion be taken out of the criminal justice system and treated purely as a medical matter. Um and I think again, uh you know, Christians need to be heard as saying yes, it is a medical matter, and and yes, there needs to be care and compassion shown to the mum and best practice and blah blah blah. But it is also an issue of justice. It is also a political and a moral issue because when because a a medical procedure is to heal you, right? Yeah. This medical pres you know procedure all it does is end life. Yeah. It it doesn't preserve life. So to treat it purely as a as a medical matter is is not to treat it for what it is.
SPEAKER_04So I mean it because of what's happened today, it won't pass into law, will it? But it will mean that it it's more likely to now get an airing actually in in proper discussion, is that's my understanding. But I but I wonder though, part of it, I mean, we we may look at that and think, you know, surely if it's passed now it will get into the next one and pass again. But I wonder how many people are even aware of it. You know, I I wasn't aware of this happening until I went to the conference. No one else I spoke to, no one else I emailed was aware of it. Um, are we are we aware that these things are happening and being pushed through? Yeah. Um, you know, I certainly wouldn't have written to my MP if it hadn't been for the conference.
SPEAKER_02Right. Um Right. Dan Dwelly um just wrote in comments, he's a church pastor. He says, I was at the conference last week, too. I cried through every session. He says it's one thing confronting the world with the issue, but what about pushback from the church? Matthew Cliff's research was interesting, which revealed mixed opinion within the church. He says, as a pastor, I'm just as nervous talking to my church about it as I am talking to the man on the street. Yep. So, yeah, we've got to convert the church to the cause of the unborn. Yeah. You know, and I think that's what the Brefos Conference was about.
SPEAKER_04I think hopefully there were I mean, I th what was it? I can't remember Matthew Cliff, it was Matthew Cliff, wasn't it? I mean, he said, you know, the the Bible doesn't speak explicitly on the topic of abortion, but you'd have to do some pretty uh impressive hermeneutical or exegetical gymnastics to make the Bible pro abortion. Yeah. Um so, you know, he did talk about, you know, there was kind of the Psalm one through nine stuff, and there was John the Baptist and Jesus in the womb and you know the John the Baptist leaping at the same time.
SPEAKER_02So because we keep saying brefos, um because brefos is B-R-E-P-H-O-S. It's the Greek word that is used to refer both to John the Baptist leaping in the womb. He is a brefos in the womb there, but also the Lord Jesus in the manger, he is also a brefos. So the same word, the same moral category is applied to the unborn and the born. So that's that's the yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And I mean so I just I felt like you know, there are pl there are lots of good places where you could go you know and say, you know, the Bible's pretty clear, isn't it? Like th these are human lives, you know. Right. Even in the womb. It's not like when they take a breath or once they get to this certain stage. Right. You know. Right. But you're right. I mean I feel the same as as Dan, you know, um the nervousness, you know. I mean, I I don't know how many I've I must have preached hundreds of times but I don't think I I would ever I th I was thinking, you know, if if I if I get up to talk about this that would probably be the most nerve-wracking preach to give, you know.
SPEAKER_01I wonder why that is. I think it's a good one.
SPEAKER_04And I think, you know, because cause you and and your j not only is it uh divisive in that you think some people will be one side or the other, sadly, even in the church, but you're also trying to juggle how can I be compassionate how do I not hurt the person in the congregation who's yeah who's had the abortion.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um and but but maybe that kind of that diagnoses in us, and I I feel exactly the same, but it diagnoses in me uh the fact that I lean towards law rather than gospel. Like, like how am I going to apply this in a in a sermon? And may maybe my first thought should be you know what, even if you pressured your girlfriend into an abortion, you can be forgiven. The blood of Jesus purifies you from even that evil. You know even if you had an affair and then you hushed it up and you you know you made her have the abortion, you're forgiven for that. Even if, you know, and and just that it it needs to be law and gospel together. Otherwise, if there's no gospel on the end of it, you're not gonna want to look. Because if there's no forgiveness at the end of it, you're not gonna want to know. You know? Like it's it's you know sometimes I use the the analogy of a um a field with a whole bunch of uh mines in it. It's like a minefield left over from a war zone. You know, you're not gonna go out and farm the field unless you know that every one of those, you know, mines is um decommissioned, you know, defused. Um and you're not gonna wanna look at the sin in your life unless you know that the blood of Jesus purifies you from every sin. But the blood of Jesus having purified you, you need to now look. Because that mine in the ground is not helping your farming, it's not helping you be fruitful, you know. And in the same way there's sin in your life, but it's not a mine filled that'll kill you right now. But it is this ugly thing that needs dealing with. And and so, you know, m uh it means we need to double down on the gospel just as much. Double down on the forgiveness of sins just as much. Because otherwise we're not going to be able to face the the sins that we've committed and that we've been complicit in.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And and that applies just as much for you know, the 'cause it's I I'm sure you don't mean this, but like, you know, when we talk about sin you know, the people who've done an abortion or had an abortion, it's easy to kind of think of it that way. But I think what struck me was that just sitting in the congregation and not having done anything about abortion is the sin, you know, as well. You know, yeah that that one day I'm gonna stand before God and I know I'll be declared um innocent because of Jesus. Yeah. At the end of the day. But there'll still be a kind of but what about this? Why didn't you do this? You know, what about all those big babies? Um and what will my answer be? Um not a very good one, you know.
SPEAKER_02Right. Um it was always said, you know, by you know, like Dachau, the the the concentration camp, you know, you've got the concentration camp looking over and there's a there's a town there, you know. And the town did the town know what was going on in Dachau concentration camp? And one of the one of the members of um of of the town said uh we we didn't know but we knew. Right. We didn't know but we knew. And and that's I guess that's all of us. We yeah, if we if we don't know, it's because we don't really want to know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And I was struck, I think it was in the in the material, one of the packs they gave us, you know, there was the Wilberforce quote I think that he'd said in in Parliament, you know, you can choose to turn away from this, but you can never say you didn't know.
SPEAKER_02Um Yeah. And with that in mind, Rebecca Collins has just said, This is a great conversation. Would it work to have a follow-up day on the Brefos conference to invite church leaders really impacted by the day to get together to pray and discuss the way forward? And already that's got a couple of likes. Um here's here's another like. Um and uh Dave Brennan is the guy who uh has put things together. Um we'll we'll perhaps put a link um to to Brefos in the comments uh so that people can follow up on that. But yeah, there needs to there needs to be a way forward because um there's much to be done. Eight hundred abortions just today.
SPEAKER_04Um it's crazy to think you know, here we are what was it, a a week on, you know, another another five working days. Yeah you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04That's another like what? Yeah, about 40,000 babies. Yeah. Just if the mind just boggles. 4,000, yeah. Yeah. Sorry, yeah. 4,000. 4,000.
SPEAKER_02But yeah. So uh yeah, we'll we'll put in links and uh stay tuned because we've got more uh material on this. We interviewed uh John Wyatt, uh, terrific interview, uh, where we sort of unpack some of the things from his talk. So Professor John Wyatt um uh will talk to us and we'll release that in the next week, uh, as well as uh an interview with Callum Miller, who uh is another evangelist who also lectures in bioethics at uh at Oxford. And uh it was a great conversation with him to to speak about some of these issues. So lots to keep thinking about. Um but yeah, m my bottom line is it's it's become even more even more than going to Psalm 51 and Psalm 139 and saying um yes, right from conception there is life. I I think I go to Christmas and I go to Easter. Jesus became an embryo for all embryos, and he became the despised and weak thing and the thing that was not on the cross. Um so how can how can we have any less compassion than that? So that's uh brefos, and perhaps we'll talk about this more um when our videos with John White and Callum Miller come out uh as well. Yeah. Um so uh from the very heavy to uh the ridiculous, uh that night on Tuesday, um we went to BAFTA. Yeah. Um BAFTA, the British Association of Film and Television Awards. And uh we picked up one of these. So how about that? So um this was uh best festival video um for Meet the Nativity. So that was that was wonderful. Um so that was encouraging. Oh yeah, and we also got so we got we got one for um yeah, um Meet the Nativity, but we also got uh uh a finalist for uh Divine Comedy, which was our Easter video.
SPEAKER_04So it's quite nice when the the short list comes up and two out of the three sh they're kind of in the f in the short list are yours, you think? Yeah. The odds are in our favour.
SPEAKER_02The odds are in our favour, but how gutting would that have been if it was the third one?
SPEAKER_04I did feel a bit of a fraud getting up though. It's like there's like the whole production team from the Nativity, a good crowd of whom, you know, are not Christian people. Yeah. And there's me swallowing up to the front, you know, and Glenn's like, oh just hold this. I like that I thought I contributed nothing. Here I am. I uploaded something to Facebook. That's about it.
SPEAKER_02You know, but but film filmmaking is like that. Uh it's like you just played a part. But every everybody, even if you're like the the the videographer or something, it's it's like hurry up and wait. Hurry up and wait. It's just it's mainly doing nothing. So you weren't you earned that, Paul. Don't you worry about that. Um my goodness, it's already 1.53. What are we what are we going to talk about? Um let's all let's also talk about um this last weekend. Uh so Paul and I went up to Alexandra Palace. Paul went up on Saturday, I went up on Sunday to the Mind Body Soul Convention. Experience, the Mind Body Soul Soul Experience, uh, where we sort of filled Alexandra Palace with a whole bunch of stalls, and some of them are about yoga, and some of them about Reiki healing, and some of them were about the environment. And a couple of them were Christians. Yeah. And uh there was the Jesus Experience, and uh there was us. We um cobbled together with Lumina, uh, which is uh George Osborne's um uh evangelistic charity, and he was saved out of the new age, and he goes every year to this show, and uh so we went with him really and and his team. And uh you went last year as well. Yep. How did you how did you find it this year?
SPEAKER_04You know, uh so it it was quite different, I felt. Um just in terms of the conversations. I don't know whether that was partly the people and partly me. Um I felt this year I had less confrontation, like hostile conversation. Oh, I didn't have any this year. Right. Um this year people were quite open. Maybe partly that was maybe that was my approach, I don't know. Maybe in in this course of a year, you know. There was a lot of relativism, and I felt we've we touched upon that, so I did a bit of brushing up before I went on some of the things we talked about in our thorny questions, um, which was uh useful. Um Should we have should we have a look at a clip so see what it looks like?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, have a look at what it what it looks like. We are at Alexander Palace at the Mind Body Soul Show.
SPEAKER_03Shearing guns love.
SPEAKER_00Experience um coming up to the moment stand.
SPEAKER_02This is in the stand. Um here we go. This is George Osborne, the man behind the bottom. George Osborne, you are live on Facebook.
SPEAKER_01No swearing. Keep it clean.
SPEAKER_02Keep it clean. So how long have you been doing this for? Coming to the Mind Body Souls show? Ooh, that's a good question. Since probably about 2009. So good old George Osborne. Um you can go on the page and and see the whole of that video. You can also see another video where uh myself and Lucy Marskell talk about some of the uh conversations that that we had. Um did you have any uh decent conversations?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I had loads and lots of conversations which were really positive. Had lots of people who, like I say, c were kind of quite relativist about things, you know, well, I you know, I like a bit of this, I like a bit of that, and all religions kind of all lead to the same place. And I actually just had some really fruitful conversations. I had two a Muslim couple who really came for prayer about work, but they were very kind of liberal Muslim couple, even I mean what the guy said, you know. He said, if I go to the mosque and or I pray at home, you know, if I do it five times, I'll go to church five times as well. I was like, okay. Um so a bit of a hedging your bets there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um But we often think like like Islam is a monolithic thing. But uh but actually I I saw quite a few I I even saw women in in like hijabs. Oh yeah, yeah, like in Alexandria Palace. So we often think, you know, but but just imagine I mean I met so many Christians as well who probably, you know, were hedging their bets as well. So every every worldview is well, yeah.
SPEAKER_04So good conversations there and and just kind of you know chatting a bit about, you know, oh you think all religions are the same, or you know, what you what about you know where Islam's aiming and what is Christianity aiming and do you have assurance salvation? Because when I go, I'm I'm I know where I'm going, do you know where you're going? And we had a really fruitful conversation there, and they took home a copy of 321. I had um just a number of people who it seemed like in a sense God had brought them there specifically, you know, that day for some reason, you know, probably to come, you know, like God had been on their case in some way. Um and then there was the hilarious lady with the money. Um tell that story.
SPEAKER_02And maybe another term. So yeah, that one. Yeah, because that's that's not yeah. That's that's a good story anyway.
SPEAKER_04See, that's the way to keep people uh chinging back.
SPEAKER_02We've got a good story for you, but we're not gonna tell it right now. I know. I had um I had a whole bunch of people, I mean, people cried, but pretty much most people who talk to me cried. That's that's my goal. That's my goal. Um yeah, a lot of them cried over prodigal son. I met so many lapsed Christians. So many. And and so, you know, the the younger son going into the far country and getting lost, um, just really spoke to people and the welcome that people have from the father. Um so yeah, I had a lot of people in tears and and and really wanting to get connected to churches and praying with them. And of course, like there, when you say, Would you like to pray? They're they're like, Oh sure, how much do we owe you? Yeah, yeah. Because at the next store that's 40 quid to pray. I mean loads. It's a good little money spinner. Honestly. So but there was this one really interesting guy, um, and and we got we got talking and uh he said, Yeah, yeah, because it's all a love thing. I was like, Yeah, but you don't really believe that, do you? Because you're for you, love is an energy. He's like, Yeah, yeah, it's an energy. I said, I don't really feel loved when I just like if there's a vibration that I'm in tune with, that's not the same thing as a personal love. Yep. He was like, Oh, but what do you mean? And I said, Well, you know, is there anyone on the other end of that love that's giving you that love? He says, Yeah, me. I was like, I I'd you know, for myself, I'd like myself to be loved by someone a bit better than me. Like and a bit stronger and a bit, you know, you know, someone who's gonna last beyond death and that sort of thing. And and and I s and and then he was the you know doing the relativist thing and say saying, you know, it's all about love. I was like, I think everyone wants it to all be about love, but who actually has the foundations who can say it's all about love? And so we we went through 321 and talking about God as a loving union of three. And so I was like, actually only with the Jesus gods do you get the love that you crave. And he was like that's I mean, but that's just logic you're using. You're just using logic. And I was like, Yeah, well, uh logic about love, because I think you know the ultimate thing is about this love. And then he called over his mate and he said, This this guy's saying that you know you need you need like Jesus to have love. And this guy was like from a Hindu background, and he said, That's so fascinating, because I think it has got to be all be about Jesus. He said, Ever since March I've been having uh dreams about Jesus saying, Come on home, come on home. And so it's a like a huge lengthy conversation about Jesus and got to pray with them and uh I've been WhatsApping them ever since. So um amazing, amazing, yeah. That's crazy, isn't it? Um so mind, body, soul. Um again, perhaps we should we should put links um in with Lumina and uh if people want to join us next year, uh it's fantastic. Absolutely, just yeah, everybody cries. Everybody cries for the right reason. Um shall we just leave people with a little bit of a teaser? So uh I don't know if I've noticed uh have I mentioned before that we won a bathta? I don't know if did I did I mention that? Um for Christmas last year, so meet the nativity. So how do we top that? How do we how do we go one better than meet the nativity? Well, we go into space, that's what we do. Intrigued? Intrigued, huh? Huh? What's it gonna be about?
SPEAKER_04It's gonna be uh you're gonna be the the soundtrack will be Spaceman Came Traveling by Christa Berg, about uh the alien who comes. Maybe you don't you don't know the song?
SPEAKER_02Maybe.
SPEAKER_04Do you know the song where the star in the night sky is is an alien?
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, spacecraft. Oh yeah. Pretty much. He is an uh you know, extraterrestrial creature, yeah, right, coming to Earth. And there's all sorts to play around with in terms of space, and uh we'll be thinking a lot about NASA in the next sort of year or so because Apollo 8 circled the moon on Christmas Eve and they all read out Genesis chapter one. Um it's really, really cool footage. You can you can get it online. Um Earthrise, that that photograph of Earth that was taken fifty years ago this Christmas. Uh it's the first time we sort of saw Earth. We s you know, it's the first sort of selfie, really. Yeah, yeah. Earth kind of getting a picture of itself. And then obviously in July it'll be the 50 years since uh Neil Armstrong walked on the moon. So, yeah. But God walking on the earth is more important than man walking on the moon. So, yeah, we uh we've got a little team working together, and uh hopefully that Christmas video will be out kind of mid-November.
SPEAKER_04I'm I'm look already looking forward to uh picking up the award for it without doing it.
SPEAKER_02You were integral, Paul. I could not have done it without you. Brilliant. Well, thank you uh everybody for tuning in. Lots of great comments. Thank you, Belinda, um, saying, yeah, the gospel is also highly offensive, isn't it? I think abortion highlights our sin as a nation and shows how we've been influenced by the world. Preaching about abortion can be a wake-up call to the church. I think that's absolutely right. Uh, and thank you to Julia and Richard for your comments. As well. Um, this Friday, I'm gonna go and see Jordan Peterson. So Yeah. So I'm I'm your biggest fan. I'm gonna I'm gonna see if I can ask him a question. Why don't you go to church? That'll be my question. Oh, yeah, you got to get it. So we'll see. I'll let you know next week how I get on with that. I'm going with James Carey, who's been on the show before, and uh and we'll see what we make of the phenomenon. Where did you say he's in Birmingham? So uh Birmingham uh he's in Oxford. And he's in Birmingham, he's all over. Okay. He's all over in Cambridge and Edinburgh, and he's going to Helsinki and back. People can't get enough of that JP. JBP. Um and I'm also having a conversation online uh this afternoon with one atheist um uh YouTuber and then another guy, Think Club, who's one of the big sort of YouTube channels that that really supports and loves uh Jordan Peterson. I'm gonna be going to be talking uh uh to Think Club on Saturday morning. No, Saturday afternoon, our time. So if you're online and you're a YouTuber, you can check that out. Check it all out. Awesome. Well, we've got five minutes over, but um yeah, I think an important discussion to be had. So yeah. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, Paul. Get well soon. Thanks. Yeah, thoughts and press. I hope so. Yeah, a hedge of protection. See you next week.
SPEAKER_04Bye bye. Take care.