The Speak Life Podcast, sharing Jesus in everyday life. Harry and Megan are having a baby, a royal baby. Congratulations to them. Of course, this news has caused Christmas preachers everywhere to sigh with relief now that Christmas sermons are taken care of. Of course, such preachers first counted 12 weeks since the royal wedding, but yeah, no, we're safe. But now that we have a royal baby, Christmas preaching is in the bag. No more need to offer your hot take on the John Lewis commercial. No need to rail against the evils of consumerism. No more needing to rail against the traditional nativity scene, saying bar humbug to every detail that people have come to take uh so dearly to their hearts. Of course, there weren't three kings, and and uh they weren't even kings, and they wouldn't have been at the stable at the same time as the shepherds. And did I say stable? There was no such thing. Everything you know about Christmas is a lie. You don't actually need to preach that way. Uh no, there's no need for trite lines like uh this Christmas, you could see the queen on the telly, or you could invite the king into your heart. There's no need for aphorisms like Jesus is for life, not just for Christmas, which is fine, but to be honest, that comes across like you are miffed with the Christmas crowd in front of you, and you're asking them where were you the other 51 weeks of the year, huh? There's no need for puns at all, really. The reason for the season or danger in a manger, manger danger, from manger to danger, stranger in a manger, manger things, the game changer in a manger, the game changer in a manger, the game changer sin exchanger in a manger. Now we're cooking with Holy Spirit gas. No, no need for any of that. We have a royal baby. And while Harry and Megan's will be born into privilege, Christ was born into poverty, but that's Christmas, and that's how Christmas has been preached for millennia. He became what we are, that we might become what he is. He came into our human family that we might be invited into his royal family. That's the great exchange of Christmas. Wait a minute, exchange? He's the great exchanger, the great exchanger in the manger. Heaven's Ranger to earth a stranger, headed into danger. This stuff writes itself. Where's my pencil? It's the 15th of October. This is Speak Life, and you're watching the live cast. Hey everybody, you're right. Yeah, very good. Paul just gave me another line. What was your line from Christmas?
SPEAKER_03Water to wine is a drink exchanger. Water to wine is a drink exchanger. What's that from? Uh it's from uh an awful YouTube video which I'm not going to divulge. Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_04Nice. For its shockingness. Well, just in order to prepare for uh that monologue, I asked on social media um, what are some examples of some bad Christmas preaching? And I boy boy did you guys come good. Some of you have been sitting on this for decades. Yeah. Terrible ones. Like one one guy tweeted in the worst uh Christmas sermon I ever heard was in Lincoln Cathedral years ago. The guy said that Jesus was late for his own birth, based on the line, late in time, behold him come. He says, Can't remember the point. Not sure there was one, but it annoyed me so much I've remembered it. So, in some reasoning, that's excellent preaching, isn't it? Excellent day to be just to be remembered like that. He's taking that away. It's great. And Sophie Kil Killingly said, um I once heartily protested being made to say this closing line as a teenager in a Christmas church play, but I had to say, we just saw the Queen on the telly, but now the king is in my heart. So nice line. Nice line. If you're listening on the podcast, I've got my head in my hands. Well, how about this one? The new iPhone X has new facial recognition technology, so it registers your face. But will you recognize Jesus' face this Christmas?
SPEAKER_02It's just Oh no.
SPEAKER_04I mean, if you used that, I'm sure it was fine. I'm sure it made sense in the context of your own preaching, but I I I'm not getting it. I'm not getting it. Um But then my my favorite one, um, Timothy Ezat, a friend of mine, he he says he doesn't like simply wanting to destroy traditional Christian pot portrayal of Christmas, i.e., let's debunk all the the nativity and you know the whole well, there weren't three kings, and there weren't kings anywhere, and there weren't three of them. Yeah, yeah. And they weren't at the stable at the same time as the shepherds. And there wasn't a stable! Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, you know, you've you've done that, haven't you?
SPEAKER_03I've totally done that. I did it with children though. I've I'd preferred to destroy their uh their everything they cherish. And you know Santa kids? No.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah, no, no, that's totally okay. That's fine. Destroy Santa. Terminate with extreme prejudice when it comes to Santa.
SPEAKER_03But oh that reminds me of the Terminator Nativity. You must have seen Terminator Nativity.
SPEAKER_04If you want to live, come with me. Mr.
SPEAKER_03La Vista, baby Jesus. Worth looking at. That's a good one. That's a Christmas illustration right there.
SPEAKER_04Oh, there's the Jack Bauer versus Santa Claus one. That's a great one. That is a good one. Anything that lays the boot into Santa uh gets two thumbs up from me.
SPEAKER_03I think I the reason people do these things though is because I mean I've when you get to Christmas time, there I think if you are if you preach every year at Christmas, you do feel like you've got to bring something fresh. Right. You know? So I mean you you're like you think everybody knows the story, I can't just do the same sermon.
SPEAKER_04Right. Um Which they never seem to bother about the other 15. Well I know that's what I was thinking. That's what I was thinking.
SPEAKER_03Exactly, that's the thing. But um you do feel like sometimes you've got to put a like how can I keep it fresh?
SPEAKER_04You've got to try it. Is that is that the first time that preachers are actually contemplating that outsiders might be hearing their messages? If so, that's a that's a problem, isn't it? Because they don't they don't care dishing up the same boring stuff, you know, the other 51 weeks of the year.
SPEAKER_03It's just that actually I couldn't possibly comment on the quality of the 51 weeks of the year.
SPEAKER_04They gotta bring they've got to bring their A game because you know the parish shows up to the carols by candlelight.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, yeah, I mean it is undoubtedly an opportunity.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's great. And if people want ideas for this Christmas, uh we are working on a couple of church packs.
SPEAKER_03Don't take all the ones you've just heard. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04No, that that's that will not be part of uh the the church pack. But um connected to four kinds of Christmas, uh, we've got a little church pack that I'm putting together where um here are some suggestions for for four sermons if you want to do a four sermon series on on the four kinds of Christmas or a one sermon four kinds of Christmas shot. Um so that's that's one idea. And then um also putting together a pack for Meet the Nativity. So, you know, maybe you want to do a screening of Meet the Nativity, uh and you want to know, you know, what what other words can I use to kind of supplement that? Or you know, perhaps I could preach through the four different episodes of uh Meet the Nativity. Um obviously you'd be preaching on the scriptures, and I've I've got scriptures to to to base all of what you're saying on. Um but uh yeah, we're we're developing that. Hopefully, uh that will be available in the next week or two. Um so that uh yeah, it's an it's another resource for Christmas.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and it's a good one. Good resources. The Meet the Nativity one we used. Well, we used Meet Nativity last year. There was no resource at that point, just had to make it up.
SPEAKER_04Make it up. Yeah. Make it up, and there he is. There's there's Will from Meet the Nativity.
SPEAKER_03But of course, yeah, and there's those you've got your videos, haven't you, on um there were the kind of follow-up videos on YouTube of you explaining the thought behind each episode. So that's useful in getting your head around some of what might be going on and angles to take on it and stuff.
SPEAKER_04And if people want HD versions of the Meet the Nativity episodes, get in touch with us at speaklife info at speaklife.org.uk and we'd love to point you towards uh good quality uh MP4s of that so that you can uh play them in your church or in a cinema or anything like this. Just feel free, use it however you want to use it.
SPEAKER_03There's no charges, is there?
SPEAKER_04Just grab it, use it. No copyright, use it. Get on with it. Get on with it, get on with it. Jesus is Lord. Absolutely. Not copyright laws. Um so just go for it. Um brilliant. So that's that was bad Christmas preaching um and the solution to it. But um Paul, you did some preaching on the weekend.
SPEAKER_03Oh, is that is that your link? That was my second preaching. Let's talk about your talk about your sermon. Uh yeah, well I think I mentioned it last week actually. So last week I said I'd done the Exodus talk, um, but I did it again this Sunday at my home church. Um and uh and it was just yeah, we were just talking earlier about the reaction I got afterwards from one particular person who is uh who is a a non not a Christian, who um, you know, it comes with a a Christian in the church. Um and and interestingly, I mean what I what I'd kind of come down to say was at one point was that, you know, we will be judged um on the basis of the blood of the Lamb, um and the blood of the Lamb alone, and not on our merits. And I talked a bit about how, you know, don't we we hear people say, you know, and ever think God's gonna condemn them, it's always like, you know, I've lived a good life and I'm not perfect, but I've never killed anyone, you know, I've loved my family, and yada yada yada. There's always a kind of appeal to moral uprightness. Um and that really he came and started talking about that, and he just said, I think I'm gonna be if there is a God, I I think I'd be judged on that. Um and it just it's one of those conversations that just kind of escalated, and looking back on it now, I mean I I realised I think he came I think I'd obviously rubbed him up the wrong way. It wasn't just oh I I'm not sure I agree with you, I think I'd really touched a nerve um by kind of saying we're not good enough. And I think so it touched a nerve, so I think his back was up and he came spoiling for a bit of a fight, which I'm not sure I really realised until afterwards, you know. Okay. Um I think initially I was just like, We're having a conversation. Um but it a lot of it actually we we kind of fell into some conversation from which touched upon topics we've talked about in the last few weeks from the Heyman Mater debate, because he was saying, you know, I think you know, I've done enough good, you know, I'll be good or whatever. And I said, Okay, well, you know, how are you defining good and how much good do you think you need to do, and what are you judging yourself against, etc. etc. And and it I realised after a sec after a few minutes that it probably wasn't a going to be a productive conversation because it became um I suppose I I describe it as like theological objection football, you know. Like um as soon as you you know you'd say something and I'd just start responding to go, oh well you know, that's even if it is God, I mean it might be Alan. I'm like, well, what conversation are we having here? Like we can't just keep jumping between two.
SPEAKER_04In debating terms, they they sometimes call it hurling elephants. Right, is it okay?
SPEAKER_03So you're not stringing together arguments, you're just you're just like, ah, you know, there's there's this objection and there's that objection, there's that objection, and you know and I think and you know, maybe we could happily sit down and have a conversation about each of those objections in turn, but when it's all coming thick and fast, I think I'm not sure we're really getting to the root of any of these before something else is thrown in. And you know, and he'd said, you know, I think God will judge me and say you've done all right. So there was this kind of, you know, if I get there, God will think I've done okay. But then it was like, Well, I don't believe in God. And I'm like, Well, you know, where are we on this? Like at what point do we come into the conversation? And I think I did say to him, So, what do you believe? You know, are you a materialist? I said, you know, do you believe we're just atoms and chemistry and blah blah blah? And he said yes, and I said, Okay, well, you know, then let's talk about good and bad and morality and so on. And he kept dropping into you know just words like you know, good, better. And I said, Well, those are you know, those are value-laden statements, right? Better than what. Right. What do you mean by good? You know, define the smooth running society, define what you mean by a better society. Yeah, people being happy and treating each other nicely and why that's better, you know, or a good thing. Um, you know, just mention some of the things you said about, you know, I I said, you know, imagine there you could imagine a situation where my tribe and my tribe, you've got a tribe, I've got a tribe, and what makes my tribe happy and prosper and grow is to oppress your tribe. And why would that be wrong? You know. And I'm not sure I I'm not I I wouldn't say he didn't have an answer, I'm just saying he didn't answer. You know, he he just kept pushing back on the kind of almost like, well, it's common sense that we you know we should be nice to each other kind of thing. It's common sense that we're not tribal. So and I mean he said, you know, he's been all around the world and people are and he was just and he was saying he said people are basically good. That's what he said. You know, people are basically good instead about losing his leaving his passport in a taxi or something, and then people are like running up and being like, Oh, we've got your passport and you know.
SPEAKER_04Um that's good. But you it sounds like you kind of did I'm gonna call it a David Pickersgill. Um I don't really know who that is, but that's so he David Pickersgill so Chris Dempsey, if you're watching, you you know. Oh yes, he's he's a passgill picker. And he he was the curate when we were in Reading, and he was the guy who said to Hamid, the the um the Muslim guy. Yep. Now it seems to me your objection is something like this. Would uh would that be correct? Which was just a Yeah, it's just a brilliant it's a brilliant sort of move in any kind of conversation to be able to summarize what the other person thinks and to even put it more strongly than the other person has put it.
SPEAKER_03I would have described the way I handed it as brilliant, so yeah. It didn't feel brilliant at all. It felt like a nightmare, if to be honest. Because I didn't feel I ever got a handle on where because because we just kept jumping, you know, and you think, well, where do I go uh you know, right before the time you've got a chance to think about anything, you've moved on. Yeah. Um and you know, because it was about Exodus, you know, said I come to these things and you know I like some of the stories, but you know, some of the stories I just think are terrible. I mean, today I think that's just abhorrent, God killing innocent children and blah blah yellow the other. And suddenly we're on another ball game all together again, that's another conversation, and you know you're like, well hang on, what are we talking about? Are we talking about you think you're good enough to be saved, or are we talking about you think God's an abhorrent monster, or are you just throwing everything you can here? Like I think it was that one, but Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_04I think there's lots of things in conversations, like like one of the one of the the sort of mistakes that I'm always making is that someone sort of throws words at me here, and all I think to do is to throw words back that I that I think are sort of relevant to the words that they've thrown at me. And I think there's there's sort of two two moves that I never think to make, but that uh are clearly kind of sensible things to do. And and one is to hop across to their side to stand where they're standing and to empathize and say, Yeah, I can see, you know, it puts a lump in my throat to think about the death of the firstborn in every household. You know, like I totally and and is that where you're coming from? Is is that the heart of your objection? And so so one move I think is to step across and to feel the weight of what they're saying and even to say it more forcefully or s you know, more strongly than they say it. But then the other thing to do is to to then what you what you then do is to look at your feet. Okay. Now, because we're both feeling this thing, what is it that we're standing on that enables us to have this view of reality? Well what do we what do we both agree about the the nature of reality?
SPEAKER_03Well that partly came up again and just stealing lines from things we've talked about already, but you know, I s you know, here I said the reason you are you you feel so strongly, uh I imagine you feel so strongly against you know the these deaths here. Right. Um is because you have a world view that has been so heavily shaped by Christian values. You know, so even I think I even said the problems you have with the Bible come from the Bible, you know.
SPEAKER_04Right, right. Um Right. Yeah, because it's the Bible that teaches you that death is an enemy. Like why would you ever on an evolutionary worldview, death is the engine, it's not the enemy. Why would you think it's an enemy? Um so yeah. So I th I just think, yeah, conversationally, there's something about steel manning the other person's view, which is you know the opposite of straw manning, in s instead of painting their view as weakly as possible, painting it as strongly as possible, standing with them in that. But yeah, yeah. Looking down at your feet and saying, Yeah, this is the kind of world we live in, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03And I think like you know, in terms of maybe the the initial discussion about um you know, I'm good enough to be saved or whatever, maybe you know, putting yourself into someone else's shoes in that uh position is to maybe you can't quite put yourself in their shoes, but you can say, This is hard for me, you know, like because actually it's very hard for me, you know. I I I fall into the trap of thinking I'm okay, you know, like I'm I'm surely I'm doing all right, like that's gotta come with something, and actually But then being in a sense you make yourself a little bit vulnerable perhaps in conversation, you say, you know, sometimes I do this and I do that, and I think, well, where's that come from? Like, you know, that it's the whole there's something it just comes out of me. Jesus says, you know, it's in the heart, right? Um, and it's easy to kind of say, Oh, so and so made me do this, it was so and so, other people got me annoyed and yada yada yada, or whatever it was. But it comes out, and and I think now, like, why didn't I just go down the road? You always think of something you should have said afterwards, but like I always think the Christianity explored, maybe they use it in life explored example is of the room is a really helpful one, you know, the big warehouse that has everything you've ever said, thought, or done, you know, every you know, every every moment recorded, you know, tapes, videos, transcripts, whatever. Um would you want someone to go into that room? Right, you know, and I've said before, like the reality is there'll be lots of things in there where I'd I'd love people to see them.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I'd be like coming in and I'd be like, here's my greatest hits, you know, Paul's greatest hits, check out these nice bits, and you know what, nobody even saw me do those bits. Yeah. Um, why don't you you know check out how good out? But there'd be so much in that room. Right. Um that I would just be absolutely oh, I just wouldn't want anything. You want the director's cut, absolutely editing, yeah, yeah. Um, would you you know would we really want to go? Would we want people to really see that? And I think when we're honest and we examine ourselves, we know there's a lot of junk in that room.
SPEAKER_04And sort of he he kind of admits to that when he says, There was that one time when I lost my passport and people went out of their way to kind of get it back to me. And you're like, yeah, so you you'll always remember that. But why does that stick out to you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean I I I preached on judgment uh in a sense well, I it wasn't the sort of the highlight of the sermon, but it was it was um the footwashing. And here comes Jesus, and he he seems to think, you know, the king of heaven seems to think he needs to stoop down to our feet to to cleanse us because we are so filthy. And you know, and and then the issue just is will you let him get his hands on you or will you keep yourself to yourself and just nurse your own uncleanness and say, Jesus, you you know, you you stick to your own, I'll stick to my own. If you if you do that, that is hell. That is hell, right? Nursing your uncleanness to yourself, saying, Jesus, I don't want you to get my ha your hands on me. You've you've made your choice. That like that is hell. Just run the clock on that. And that is that is hell. And and I think trying to trying to put your finger on kind of the Christ-centeredness of what judgment is can can help, because if someone if someone doesn't want Jesus to get his hands on them, then they want Christlessness. And you're like, oh, okay. And then it's and then it's not, you know, it's not this sort of picture. Because I I I had a sort of a uh a bit of an argy bargy um in a mission situation this last week where a guy was was basically uh objecting against the Christian doctrine of of hell. But we we had our best moment when I sort of said, okay, is your position basically that you think um at the end of all things there'll be a whole bunch of people who will say, Jesus, but I love you, I love you, don't cast me away, don't cast me away, I want you forever. Like and Jesus says, Ha, too late for you, loser. Um like if that's I can understand if that's your vision of of what judgment is.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But that's I don't think that's how Jesus ticks, and I don't think that's how human beings tick. And I don't think it's how judgment's gonna un unfold. But I guess I guess that was another example of kind of stepping onto the other side and trying to trying to put their objection as strongly as you can and feeling with it, and then sh then I g then I guess it becomes obvious that you you obviously don't think in that way. Like if you if if you say, you know, if it's this caricature of Dante's Inferno and you know and if you can empathize with why someone would object to that, they they see pretty quickly that you don't fall into the caricature.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, you know, you you say you you if you can say, you know, if that's your view, I mean you think that's terrible, I think that's terrible as well. I don't think that's what I'm the Bible's saying.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_03Um Right. But you know, I was you know mentioned it this morning, that conversation, and uh Andy said, you know, anger is better than better than apathy. Indifference, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um and that's true actually, because I you know I think there's nothing more demoralizing after speaking than like no response whatsoever. Yeah. Yeah, and you always get people who come and say, Oh, you know, thanks for that. You know, thanks for what? You know. Um but in a sense it's it's at least when people come and you've at least when you've rubbed someone up the wrong way, you know they paid attention. Yeah. Um and clear So basically I know if I've rubbed someone up the wrong way, done it right. Just be objectionable. But you know, 'cause because actually it was it was the same guy and actually a couple of Christians in the church who, when I preached um back before the summer about part of the Sermon on the Mount. Um and it was, you know, doing your good deeds to be seen by others. Right. And I made a comment in it where I said something like, I don't really believe that there's any such thing as a truly altruistic act. Like there's always something in us, like a kind of you give yourself a little pat on the back, right? You think nobody's you know, even when you're nobody's there to see you do something, you think I've done that and no one will ever know. Go me. Like and you find a way to congratulate yourself, or even when you're or even when your motives are quite good initially. Like I use the example of cleaning up a you know, you're at a party and you see cups that need to be taken away, and no one asks you to do anything, you think, oh I'll just get that. Without being asked, you get on with it, but you kind of as you pick all the cups up, you kind of steal a quick glance. See anybody. Anybody see me doing this? And I'm not saying it's always conscious, but there's always something in there. And a few people really in uh he kind of took umbrage to that, but not uh not particularly strongly, but he said, Oh, I think you know, uh it could be the case. Because I'd made a thing about celebrities, I'd said, you know, the ones with the big checks. Right. And I'm like, why do we need to see how much money you've given? Yeah, you know. Yeah. And he made some comment about George Michael after he died, it came out that you'd given lots of money to charity and stuff, and I'm just saying, and I just said, Yeah, that's great, you know, like and and no one had known about it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um I said, yeah, I'm not saying that doesn't happen. I'm just saying there are lots of things in our lives where actually we do want people to see. But I even had a couple of Christians come up and say, Oh, I disagree. Um and I basically just said I just think that's human nature. I think you our human nature is such that you know we're you know tot we're totally depraved, you know, at the core, really. And so there's always some way, even even a good act, we find a way to make it about ourselves.
SPEAKER_04Everything is tainted at some level. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, so and some more than others, yeah. But that and that's okay, I've got no problem acknowledging that.
SPEAKER_04Um it's like when Jesus says, like, let not your left hand know what your right hand is doing. It's it because it's almost a sense like if you know what you're doing on any level, you're gonna take credit for it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well I think and I think that's what I said, yeah, because that is in that passage, isn't it? Yeah. Um saying obviously it's uh it's a turn of phrase, it's not a literal thing, but it is that kind of you should you know find you should it should be done s in such a way that you can't even find a reason to congratulate yourself and build yourself up through your deeds.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So that actually, yeah, your only righteousness is Christ and his forgiveness. That's the only thing.
SPEAKER_03So in a sense it's good when people react, but I don't think I was ready for it. Like that's the thing. I was on sun this morning. On Sunday morning, you know, I just don't think I was ready for what suddenly hit me or you know, I wasn't expecting that level of conversation. Yeah. And you know when you come away and you kinda the adrenalines pump in and you're like, I wish I'd said yadda yadda yadda, you know. Yeah. Like so It's good.
SPEAKER_04Something's something's stirred and yeah.
SPEAKER_03But he said as well could uh I and I said, you know, or maybe check out some of this stuff on Speak Life, he said he listens to Unbelievable.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Um Interesting. So yeah, who knows? Oh well. Speaking of which, we'll we'll uh look at a uh a poem that Unbelievable released of mine a little later on in the programme, a poem called Given. And uh lots of fun things happening on Unbelievable. Did you know they're about to launch a podcast where Justin Brierly interviews N.T. Wright and answers all your questions. All of our questions. All your questions about car mechanics or whatever.
SPEAKER_03Will there ever be a boy born who swims faster than a shark? That old classic.
SPEAKER_04You can guarantee he will be asked that. Yeah, yeah. Um so yes, fun stuff happening at uh Unbelievable. But this week I've been in uh Newcastle and uh helping out with uh an outreach to Newcastle run through Jasmine Parish Church, a very large church uh up in the Northeast. And uh it was called Real Lives Real Hope, and I got to interview a whole bunch of people, uh including David Hamilton, who was a terrorist turned evangelist. Um Irish guy? Yes.
SPEAKER_03Yes, I think he I think he was at All Saints last mission.
SPEAKER_04Okay, yeah, really interesting guy. He was in the UDA, converted in prison, and uh um yeah, but he's just he's got a million stories trying to trying to keep the interview down to 15 minutes was uh impossible turned out to be impossible, but he was fascinating. And then Monday night, Tim Farron, leader of the Lib Dems between 2015 and 2017, and then Tuesday was Shola Amiobi, which said with a Geordie accent, is just a joy. Shola Amiobi. Brilliant Shola Scholar Amiobi um who like pulled on the shirt 400 times for Newcastle United, which is like he's the most grounded guy you've ever met in your life, and yet literally for for like 10-15 years of his life, he was worshipped every week. You know, and yet he's the most humble guy. You know, he was he was you know he was the the striker, he he he was paired with Alan Shearer, and he it was in Newcastle, and Newcastle doesn't have any other football team, it's just Newcastle United. St. James's Park, right in the centre of the town. That is the cathedral. Yeah, sure. And he is their object of worship, and yet he was just like, ah no, it's all about Jesus, and he's just the most he's a fair time sweetheart. So that was brilliant, and then uh Wednesday night I got to talk to Warren Furman, who you might know as Ace. Ace from Gladiators. Um do you remember Gladiators back in the day?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah, Wolf. It was about Wolf. Yeah, yeah. And Jet. Jet, yeah. To be honest. Alan Parker, to be honest.
SPEAKER_04Jet It's so sad that yeah. Jet well Jet was one of the first women that I noticed was a woman. I believe yeah. Belinda Carlisle, I believe, was the first. Belinda Carlisle. Ooh, heaven is a place on earth. And then Ben Jet. She made me feel funny.
SPEAKER_06What are these feelings?
SPEAKER_04But Ace was at was at the heart of this. He was like, you know, 15 million people used to tune in to IDV. It was, you know, back in the day just five channels. No, you can't like just It was like the the biggest thing for the BBC was um the the bodyguard. Um the other thing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, that was the wage and that's 10 million. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they used to get 15 million for that. For gladiators.
SPEAKER_02I know, but you know John Fashion, wasn't it? Was it John Fashinew and Ulrika Johnson? Yes. Ulrika Kaka. Yeah. Doing the uh presenting.
SPEAKER_04Um and since being a gladiator, he has come to faith uh in a pretty extraordinary way. So uh we're gonna have a look at uh a couple of clips, isn't that right? Two clips about how uh Warren was first starting to question um whether there's more to life, and then a clip about uh how he started to investigate when he went on an alpha course and looked into the evidence for Jesus. So let's have a look at this.
SPEAKER_00And Sam, but like I say, all these empty, empty promises um that all pretty much led nowhere, they're just sort of self-defeating, if you like. Um, but what I did notice in a lot of the teachings, the ones that made sense, there was the teaching of Jesus Christ. Right. And it'd be like Jesus said, Jesus said, I'm thinking, I've noticed a common uh, you know, and you think there's analysis paralysis. Sometimes you can be so overloaded with information that you know instead you think I can't make a decision. And people used to say, Oh, well, you know, you can just choose a religion, you just choose it, it's like choosing a flavour of ice cream. Right. And I'm like, no, it's not. One's the truth and one's a lie. Right. I don't want to live a lie. If there's truth, I need to know the truth, and there's gonna be one truth. Um, so like I say, every time I read about Jesus Christ, uh, I could see there was something in that. And actually, I don't mind admitting that I still have my, you know, I believe everyone's got their faith in something's in something, some people's politics, some people academics, some people themselves, some people the media, some people banking. Um, and my faith was definitely still in money, you know. I thought if I have maybe mega wealth, that will make me happy if I have a private jet and if I have these things. And uh, interestingly enough, uh Glenn, at this point, I was I was praying. In fact, when I was on television, I was praying. I say, God, I want this man to fall off of this jewel so I win. Um and sometimes I got knocked off, and I'm like, where was you in that, God? But again, nobody had explained to me that actually God's not going to answer your prayers because you're separated from him. You have to come into his unconditional love, you have to invite him into a relationship with you. Nobody explained this to me. The simple gospel, nobody. Um, and it was actually an alpha course that I was invited on by accident.
SPEAKER_04So that was uh Warren Verman or Ace.
SPEAKER_03Um Ace. Ace has a gladiator name, isn't it?
SPEAKER_04Although Ace is even ace is a little bit Wolfman, Trojan Ace Yeah, yeah. Probably better than Warren. I don't know. Yeah, nice gladiatorial name, is it? But like War, I mean he's just uh he's just a like a colossus of a man, actually. Kind of yeah. He looks pretty massive. A triangle. Like the next the next day we had this sort of dinner that I uh sort of in uh uh interviewed him at, and he was like wearing this dinner jacket, and it was like a Dorito in a dinner jacket, just kind of this this triangle, just like honestly, his arms are thicker than my leg. Like my like you see my leg there, those were his arms. In fact, his arms were bigger than that, but um but then he talks about how uh he went along to an alpha course, a guy dared him to go along to an alpha course, and uh it would have been I I would have loved to have Warren Furman on my alpha course instead of asking questions because he had a million of them.
SPEAKER_00Have a look. Alpha course. Um, it just really blew me away that I was able to ask these questions and more importantly, examine the evidence. Yeah, you really investigated, didn't you? Absolutely, and I know and I know I was a pain on that course because then you know they're trying to go to the next page and I'll be like, hang on, what did sea scrolls? And I'll be on a train to London and I'll be checking them, and I've no idea that the Codex Geneticus is in the British Library and it's the first Bible, and the words are in that, and the same one. Check them out. Yeah, we went all over the place checking all this stuff out.
SPEAKER_04So you went to Manchester to check like a fragment of John's Gospel. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, it's a fragment of John's Gospel in the sacred text in the in the British Library as well. So so all over the place. So I didn't realise as well that you know, I started to look at the Bible and started to see that it was historically consistent and that it was a practical book. Yeah. And again, nobody had explained actually that none of this really will make sense to you until you're saved because it will confound you because you're not saved. It won't make a lot of sense until you can come to the end of yourself, right? Invite Jesus Christ into your life, and you'll be filled by spirit, and things will start making sense because you will you'll be in a relationship with God. But like I say, that alpha cause uh was you know a massive turning point. It was literally the the difference between uh life and death, everything changed.
SPEAKER_04Brilliant, and uh and since then he his family's been turned around. Since then he's basically going around talking to people about Jesus, it's just yeah, transformed his life. And if people want to check him out, he's coming to Crowbra. Yeah, is it November? November, I think. Next month. Yeah, in a in a couple of Saturdays. Check out All Saints Crow and I'll be interviewing him again.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Well it's good. Now you've got a because you met him before then, so actually now you've got a bit more of a feel for him, you kind of know where things are going a bit and stuff.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, he's such a sweetheart.
SPEAKER_03It's and it's it's funny though, as I watch that. I mean, it it just seems so you know, he's there saying, and I I went to the British Museum, check out Codex Sonny Anarchist, and I've popped up to Manchester to see that. And like everything in me is going, surely he didn't. You know, like I'm just thinking, well because you know, you just have these image of someone like him being like this huge guy, right? Like, you know, right, no, no, that's gone, you know. Uh I know and I know that's terrible, but we have those uh views, don't we? Of like but he's clearly someone who's actually gone and put thought into this. He hasn't just kind of fallen into it. Massively. And he and he was very clear, wasn't he? You know, people said to him, Oh, you know, you've got to uh you know, pick a religion, you know, just pick one you like and whatever. And he was like, Well it's gotta be true. Yeah, and he was he was concerned that he gets the one which is the truth. Yes. Um doesn't want to live a lie. Yeah. Um yes, I mean props to him for yeah doing his research there and I think God's sort of used that.
SPEAKER_04I think he's always had a natural inclination for self-improvement and he's always had a natural inclination for weeding out the the bull, right? And and figuring out what the truth is. And I think God used both those things. Like he wanted to he wanted to improve himself and he wanted to you know figure out what the truth was, and it led him to Jesus.
SPEAKER_03And you say his family as well as well.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so his wife was on the same uh alpha course and uh there's a debate about who came to Christ first, but uh but he's just saying you know the kids now just notice a a total difference in their in their relationship and so yeah, they both came to Christ about four years ago, and and now uh Warren goes around yeah, telling his story and yeah, he's awesome.
SPEAKER_03He's awesome. Well, I'd be good to good to hear him when he comes to Crober. And I know there's loads of people in Crobera who are already kind of quite excited about it. A lot of dads. There's a lot of dads who've got like lads who are about because we you know we've got daughters six and they've got kids in that class, a lot of dads with boys particularly. Yeah. Like, oh do you remember the gladiators? Yeah. You know, and they've seen them like saying, Oh let's go to gladiators, you know.
SPEAKER_04He always he says, and there's always some dad who wants to like dare me to have an arm wrestle. And he's like, This is a no-win situation. Should I not do that? Oh, don't do it. It's just like it's a no-win situation for me. Like, if I win, everyone's like, what kind of ego do you have that you've got to win this? And if I lose, they were like, call yourself a gladiator. He says, I can't win. It's horrible. So don't do that. Don't do that to Warren.
SPEAKER_03I I wouldn't even bother to poor, poor Warren.
SPEAKER_04Um so yes, interviewed him and loads of other stories uh in the week up at Newcastle. And then we finished the week last night uh up in Newcastle by me interviewing uh a guy called Michael. And Michael actually grew up on the same street as Shola Amiobi. And he kind of knew Sholer and he knew the Amiobi family, and he knew he knew that the Amiobi family was Christian, but he just thought it was all nonsense. And of course, Shola takes one route in life and becomes a multimillionaire footballer. Michael takes another route in life and becomes homeless. And um uh that's where God meet uh meets him, really. Um and it was just this beautiful moment. We're gonna watch a clip in a second, where he talks about coming to the end of himself, uh homeless, the beast of the Easter just blown in. So we're you know, we're talking about the beginning of this year. Beast of the East had just blown in, uh he's perishing with cold. Um but one woman who happened to be from Australia, who happened to be called Sheila, but anyway, she met him and she uh she started to to you know teach him how to pray, and she would start praying for his needs, and he would start to see that his needs were met um when she prayed, and then she left the country back to Australia, and uh he was left to think, hmm, I wonder if I wonder if I can give this prayer thing a go. And let's have a look at what happened.
SPEAKER_07Cool. Between that time then and meeting a lady outside called Sheila, there was lots of people who were here tonight from our church who like anybody could walk past us and oh, you're couple of pounding me cup, but like people had stopped and cared, and like you could feel a love. Like that's like really good. Yeah, um, you know, she was called Sheila. She was not this not initially, this is people from our church. Talk 20, 30, we were not named people, but there's lots of them um who would stop and take an interest and care. But there was no connection between those people and this church, or between those people and Jesus. I knew they were different, I knew they stood out. Um but I didn't know why there was this overwhelming feeling of love after I'd had a just a much short encounter with them until I met a woman called Sheila. A woman called Sheila who's from Australia, she's watching right now. We've had she's in Perth for watching right now.
SPEAKER_04And can I just like on behalf of all Australians, can I just point out that not every Australian woman is called Sheila? Can I just lay that to rest? Yeah, but she happens to be, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, yeah. Um so, yes, this amazing lady called Sheila, um who's still very much part of my life now. She sat down and um she just used to sit with yourself a bit crap, we used to be talking, and at the end of our before she left, she just used to pray and she'd pray that my needs would be met, and I'd be protected, and um that would be it, just simple as that. And she would get up and walk away. And I I used to sit outside for like 10-12 hours to get the £21 it cost for me hotel, and she likes to come along and pray, and I used to have £21 exactly within like an hour, and it's happened every day for a few weeks, um, and then she went back to Australia. And I what do I do now? Can I pray? Can you do it? Will it work if I can do it? Will it work if you gave it a go? Well, what do I say? What do I do? How do how do I do it? You know, I didn't know anything. Um so like I'm sat it was a Saturday morning, I'm sat outside in a tunnel, it was freezing as well. Beast from the east would just hit work, it was literally minus eight. I'm not exaggerating. Like the left hand side of us was white with a wind just blowing into us. I was starving, hungry. I was like in a pit, the pit, you know, like I couldn't have gone any lower. I was depressed, lonely. I had nobody, had nothing, no food, absolutely nothing. And I decided to get myself a Bible this one, yeah, as it happens, it's very same Bible, and sat down outside and opened it up. And the first page I randomly opened to. My Bible is page 794 and 795. And like the first thing it hit us there was Luke chapter 12, 22. And turning to his disciples, Jesus said, That is why I tell you not to worry about everyday life, whether you have enough food to eat or enough clothes to wear. For life is more than food and your body more than clothing. Look at the ravens, they don't plant or harvest or store food in barns, for God feeds them. You are far more valuable to him than any birds. Can all your worries at a single moment of your life, if worry can't accomplish a little thing like that, what is the use of worrying over bigger things? Look at the lilies and how they grow. They don't work or make their clothing. Yet Solomon in all his glory was not dressed as beautifully as they are, and if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and thrown into the fire tomorrow, he will certainly care for you. Why do you have so little faith? Don't be concerned about what to eat and what to drink, don't worry about such things. These things dominate the thoughts of unbelievers all over the world, but your father already knows your needs. Seek the kingdom of God above all else, and he will give you everything you need. So don't be afraid, little flock, for it gives your father great happiness to give you the kingdom. Sell your possessions and give to those in need. This will store up treasure for you in heaven, and the purses of heaven never get old or develop holes. Your treasure will be safe. No thief can steal it, and no moth can destroy it. Wherever your treasure is, there the desires of your heart will also be. Wow. And that was like just wow.
SPEAKER_01Straight away, like Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_07I mean, straight away, like, yeah, this is real. Like I think everyone in this room uh realizes that's real. And I looked at the sky and was like, wow, and like I can only describe it as like how you're reading the Bible is like I was just literally filled with the Holy Spirit. Right. And it was like I had his father, I had his spirit, and I had his future from that very, very second. That's amazing.
SPEAKER_04That's amazing. Yeah, and I think we've just had an experience of what happens when the word of God speaks, when God's voice is heard in the midst of all that, and and you heard God speaking through his word. Yeah, and I guess his word has now become hugely precious to you. I mean, you carry this book around with you. Yeah, yeah. You're a Bible guy now, don't you?
SPEAKER_07Six hours a dear, minimum. Minimum minimum, yeah, yeah. None of this five hour nonsense. I'm six hours.
SPEAKER_04At least, at least, yeah, at least yeah. Let's just dabble in five hours. Yeah, okay. So you've loved the word of God, and and and you've you've kind of seen ways in which God has provided for your daily needs, yes, even when you were homeless, he's he started showing up all my life, even from a child to you know, all in hindsight.
SPEAKER_07Um yeah, and like once I seen that and was then spent a little bit of time stuck into my Bible and decided to try and find a church from that point, you know. It's still at this point after reading that and knowing God was real and wanting to find out more about Jesus. I still didn't know all these people were from this amazing place. Yeah, yeah, you know, like that's still hand clicked. Um went about town. I tried a few churches before I ended up here, and I still don't know why I didn't come here first. I'd sat outside here for seven months, you know. I don't know why it was crazy. I'm walking miles away to find a church was one of my doorsteps. And yeah, I ended up here one Sunday morning about seven, eight months ago, and I come in a few minutes late. And I come in a few minutes later, like one of the ladies who passes every day who was like cared beyond normal people should, somebody like. Taking your washing and doing your washing and things like that, you know, like that's only Jesus can do that, you know, like not normal people. Right. So and that's when I made the connection. Like these people in this place. Then you start to recognize actually all the people who had been helping you. Every single one, they kind of just helped it. Yeah, there wasn't one that wasn't um like everybody was from this church. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Amazing. Yeah. Amazing. Are Mike Speck on?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, Mike's Beck on.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I I love I like Michael Sutherland. He's uh yeah, he's he's a new hero of mine. So he he was my favorite guy to interview uh over the over the course of the week. Uh because I actually I'd m I'd met him for the first time back in May, actually. Um and he was kind of yeah, he was just he was just a few months from from that kind of moment of reading the scriptures and and sort of since then he's he's got a flat, got a job, kind of but now he lives for taking the word of God out to the street community. Right. And um yeah, it's just a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful story. And uh and when he read out Luke chapter twelve, like it was pin drop time, like in the church. And like people, people just like started applauding the word of God. It was extraordinary. Like, have you have you ever been in a church where someone's read the word of God and instead of saying, you know, this was the word of the Lord, thanks be to God, people just like yeah, yeah. No way. Amazing, a ma it was amazing, it was amazing. So loved it, absolutely loved it, and um yeah, so I continue to pray for fruit from this last week. Uh Newcastle, a couple of guys saying, Yeah, I want to start following Jesus for the first time. Um, a couple of guys that I know of, and who knows what else is happening and what other uh what other fruit fruit there might be from that. But uh yeah, a great a great week in Newcastle and looking forward to doing something quite similar at uh All Saints Crowborough in a in a few weeks. Sure. Shall we think about uh Unbelievable? And um we we promised earlier in the in the show um that we would have a look at a poem that I did for the Unbelievable conference um back in May, I believe. And it was a poem that was about three years in the making because it came from a conversation that I had with uh an Oxford University student who um uh was appalled that an Australian was allowed to address uh the the students of Oxford University. And uh he had all sorts of objections to to the talk that I happened to give uh one lunchtime. And we just had a conversation and it it it unfolded pretty much like it does in this poem.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_04Except for the final stanza, the final stanza I've kind of added. But I've been ruminating on this conversation for the last three years, and then when Justin Brierly asked, you know, can you do a poem for the for the um conference? It kind of it it sort of flowed out of me in an afternoon. So in one sense it took three years to write, in one sense it took kind of an afternoon to write. Um, and yeah, it's a poem about this conversation that I had with an atheist, and it's called Given. Let's have a look. Nineteen years old, a quiff golden, and folding spectacled incredulity, he flew at me like a hawk at the end of my talk, all jovial, amused a colonial like me, could dare to be serious. His tone imperious, he dismissed the mysterious with a sigh. We cannot take truth from on high, he cried. We must build our beliefs from below. I said, Oh. How do you know? He said, Surely you think that is so? He said, now cynical. We cannot rest on a miracle. Our method is empirical. I said, I admire your modus operandi. I myself find it quite handy in matters scientific, but let's be specific. Which specific item within this world has told you how to view it? Or did you just intuit your scheme? He said, What do you mean? I said, you claim to be earthbound, to build your world up from the ground. But where is that approach found? You can't extract it from any brute fact. It's not as though nature is a philosophy tract. I'm not trying to be satirical, but you need a reason to be empirical. He said, it's just a given. A given. This became the pattern of our parlay. Whatever moves he'd put in play, I'd find beneath this display a stray assumption, a hidden reliance. Like when he spoke of science, I rhapsodized about its cause, to hypothesize and higher laws, to scrutinize their intercourse, to crystallize their basic force, prognosticize their future course. It's an enterprise I full endorse. But tell me, what lies at its source? To make it work, you need triangulation, law and mind and world's relation, interlocking calibration, a miracle of integration. Look around, it should astound. This scientific playground. Why should such a world be found? Who do we need to reimburse for this rationally ordered universe? It's a given, he said. He seemed to really like this answer. Whenever he'd advance a theory underneath, I saw it clearly. Like when we spoke of human rights, I asked, how apes attained such heights? It's a given, I was told. And when he scolded Old Testament wars, I asked, Whence came supracultural mores? What's the source of timeless laws? He'd pause and then say, it's a given. Which was frustrating. But I'd continue unabating, asking, who are we these minds relating? How is brain chemistry debating? If we're synapses pulsating, who's the me that's cogitating? It's a given, he said. He thought the mystery of mind should be disenchanted. I reckoned he just took it for granted, which seems a fudge. But our conversation nudged along, discussing values by which we judge, maths, morals, reason, the cosmos' cohesion, goodness, truth, beauty, love, the fact we hold such things above. All givens, he croaked. I broke and said, This world is bespoke, your mind is woke, each moment transcendent values you invoke. Is this a joke? Because it's ill-delivered. You admit it's all given. Ever wonder about the giver? Because while we're taking everything for granted, supplanting his fame, branding it all in our name, he has planted himself here all the same. In a world that just takes, he breaks himself open in pure devotion. Himself he outpours to prove he's the source. My friend, I said, we have common cause. It is all given. And he's given, so he can be yours. Thanks. So uh with the help of some editing, that's uh that's the way it came out on the on the day you might you might have noticed a little black thing in my ear. That was that was my little uh Bluetooth uh earpiece. Right. Which worked fine in rehearsal. Excellent. Broke down catastrophically halfway through the poem, but uh yeah.
SPEAKER_03Were you able to keep it together for ish yeah?
SPEAKER_04I said, uh gonna have to go back, and that's that's what they cut out.
SPEAKER_05But um Right, okay.
SPEAKER_04Fair enough. Fair enough. Oh well. But uh so that's been interesting. That's um it's a poem that's gone out uh on Unbelievable, and they they put like a heading that said something like, you know, poem slays atheists or something like which is not destroy title. Yeah, it destroys lays waste to all materialism through poetry. Um so I I did not give it that title at all. Sure, no, that's um but you know, and it's interesting how then okay, if it's got that title on in the Facebook video, you know, how people then respond to it, and so people people I think then uh saw it in a more antagonistic light.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it? That's interesting that people would just putting that title on it immediately sets people on a different thing.
SPEAKER_04I wonder. I mean, we could uh you know, I don't know how you do the science of it because you know how do you how do you do the the control experiment? But um yeah, I I do wonder if it had had a a more ireneic title. Um whether the comments would have been more irenic or or not, but um yeah, we had quite a few people. Like one guy just kept kept on saying, I don't like poetry, it's arrogant. I was like, oh, that's interesting. Why why do you say it's arrogant? He says, Well you expect us all to listen to the poem right to the end. How proud. Okay. So but uh yeah, lots of people, and and and I and I get I get the idea, you know, building up a straw man and then taking them down, you know, in rhyming couplets, you know. Would would would be annoying if you feel yourself to be uh straw manned by it all. So I understand that, but it it's it's one way of getting across a point. And and I think the the point still stands, the point still stands is that we live in a universe and we all have to take for granted givens you know, maths, morals, reason, the cosmos is cohesion, goodness, truth, beauty, love, the fact we hold such things above you know, like we're constantly using assumptions. What Jordan Peterson would call a priori, or you know, what Cornelius Van Till would call presuppositions. We're constantly presupposing certain things. Um and those certain things are immaterial. Minds are immaterial, metaphysics is immaterial, maths is immaterial.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_04Um and so somebody somebody said um, oh, this is just presuppositionalism, you know, put to rhyming couplets. Um but I I don't think it's presuppositionalism quite. Um I d I you know, I have benefited from reading uh Cornelius Van Til and things like that, but there are certain modern presuppositionalists who um I wouldn't follow, uh like Saitan Bruggenkate and people like that, who I respect, but I I if if atheists can sometimes find his argumentation um grates with them, uh it grates with me, too, at points. So uh it's not it's not kind of presuppositionalism per se, but it is just noticing. You know what? You have to rely on a whole bunch of brute facts about your mind, about the world's rationality, about reason and all these kinds of things. And what do you notice about all those things? They're immaterial. So if you really are a thoroughgoing materialist, you can't really be a thoroughgoing materialist, is basically my argument. Yeah, sure. Because even materialism where does materialism exist? Like like which particular brute fact is materialism written into? You know, do do the letters of DNA spiel spell materialism? No. It's a philosophy, it's a metaphysic that i that exists in a human mind and only in minds. And what do you notice about all those things? They're immaterial. So I do think materialism is self-refuting. Um and then one way of addressing that is telling a poem, so that's what I had to that's what I had to do. Bruce Gulland has just said, just had to look up Irene. Great poem and discussion. Just try working with him. Paul brings a missionary to work. And uh he doesn't know this, but I bring a thesaurus to work just to just to fuck him. I could have said peacemaking, but why say peacemaking? When I could have said Irene. Yeah. So uh yeah, if you like that poem, why don't you uh share it around the place and uh get some discussions going? That's uh yeah. And uh you uh might be aware that today's Monday. I hope I hope that you are. And you might be wondering uh in other news. Today is Monday. Um day long, today's Monday. And uh it is not, therefore, Tuesday. Uh Tuesday is when we usually have the live cast. Sorry uh if you are expecting it tomorrow, but you've got a treat. You can save it up for tomorrow and uh watch it again at lunchtime. Because uh Paul and Andy and I were going up to Brefos, uh, which is uh a conference that's dealing really with uh the issue of uh the unborn and wanting to uh prize and protect the unborn and how we talk about that both with Christians and with non-Christians uh in a world that doesn't always agree with the Christian uh point of view on that. So we're gonna go up to the Brefos um conference, and then we're gonna go to the Jerusalem Awards, which are held in BAFTA every year. So we're we're we're up for a BAFTA. Is it uh is it your 90-second thing or is it the Meet the Nativity? It is two things. So Meet the Nativity is up against Divine Comedy. So I've got two videos in the same category.
SPEAKER_03Anything else in that category? There are four other videos. I was gonna say, like, otherwise it's a pretty sure fire. Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah. Whatever happens, I'm gonna get up and just be like, I just want to say Beyoncé had the best video this year. I don't care who wins, I'm still gonna do it. You are the most Kanye person I know, I think. I am the greatest artist of this generation, let's be honest. Uh at Walt Disney.
SPEAKER_04Your biggest regret in life is that you can't buy a ticket to your own concert. Good old Kanye. Um I did feel like being Kanye last year because we were at the we were at this Jerusalem Awards thing and uh he came down, our downsender and nativity number. Sorry, I thought you meant Kanye. I wanted to be Kanye. Like, what?
SPEAKER_05Like no.
SPEAKER_04The name of our Christmas film two Christmases ago was He Came Down. Yeah, yeah. And uh Yeah, it didn't win. It didn't win for the first time. Really, what was it Don't get me started, but okay, you s you asked. It was the BBC, like C BBs won it. And like, why do C BBs need to need to win one of these awards? Like they've they've got an entire corporation behind them, right? Yep. Okay. But CBBs won by putting out a special podcast. They don't have a podcast. They put out just a one-off. It's the one-off of just children reading out a nativity play, which is just a nativity play. It was just like a bog standard. And kids and get And that is what beat he came down. But I'm not bitter.
SPEAKER_03I was gonna say it's good to see you've not carried that with you.
SPEAKER_04So if we went for meet the nativity, everybody.
SPEAKER_03Where was this last year?
unknownLast yeah.
SPEAKER_04Should be good though. Should be great.
SPEAKER_03I've not been to anything like that before.
SPEAKER_04Wonderful canopies.
SPEAKER_03Yeah so I've heard. Yes.
SPEAKER_04Really? But almost too good because you don't know whether they're savoury or sweet. Uh-huh. You can't have you look at them from a and like it might be in an ice cream cone, but it's probably caviar. Or it's it's like you know, you don't really but it's it's good. I mean, once you once you adjust your palate to what's in your mouth.
SPEAKER_03Are they big enough See, I have an issue with canopies at all. Okay. You know, like I'm glad we saved this for last. I know, yeah, yeah. Just saying, like just like you know, like a canopy, it needs to be big enough to go in your mouth in one go. In one. Because otherwise, like you know when you try and bite something and then it it all just like the meat doesn't cut and it it'll fall and I think that that's gonna happen. And it will happen in front of other people. Exactly. And I'll I'm like a right idiot. Yeah, yeah. Basically.
SPEAKER_04So you just gotta throw it up in the air. That's how it's done. Awesome. So no uh live cast tomorrow, but this will still go out on Friday as a podcast. Yeah. So do share the love with that, and uh, we will be back. Well we'll will we be back next Tuesday? I'm assuming we are. I'm not aware that we're not doing anything. Yeah, doing on October the 23rd, and we'll talk about what's new and uh and what's news. Hopefully.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04If there is any news. God willing. DV. Uh so uh Bruce Gulland, if you want to look up D V, that's your homework. What does D V stand for?
SPEAKER_03Deep vein turn.
SPEAKER_04De Ovalente, it's like God willing.
SPEAKER_03Ah, I see. They were talking about this on the radio this morning, all these different abbreviations that nobody knows what they mean. Yes. Like too long, don't read that one.
SPEAKER_04T long T R D R Yeah, which is basically what that guy said about the poem.
SPEAKER_03Because there was S S M H was the shake of my head. But see, I I think it means so much hate. Okay. You know? Yeah. So you're like, you know, who knows what each one means? Lots of laugh out loud. I just remember that the person who texts, you know, and says, you know, um, just heard your dad's passed away, lol, you know, and they're like, lots of love. Not laugh not laugh out loud.
SPEAKER_04Like What's the um what's the name of that family sitcom in the States uh with the guy Phil who's um tries to get down with the kids? Modern family. Oh yeah. Modern family. I'm down I'm down with all the slang, like W2A WTF, why the face?
SPEAKER_03In fairness, I saw a Christian conference that used that slogan for worship, teaching, and fellowship. And I was like, no, no.
SPEAKER_04Don't look it up, people. It actually means Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. That's that's what it means. Um anyway, I'm glad we've ended on this. We can always edit the last little bit out for the podcast. But uh anyway, we hope you have a great week and uh keep on speaking lives.
SPEAKER_03Boom.
SPEAKER_04Boom. See you guys.