The Speak Life Podcast, sharing Jesus in everyday life.
SPEAKER_03Well, hello everyone, welcome to the live cast. If you're joining us for the first time, you're very welcome. If you're a regular viewer, good to have you back and to have you with us. If you've been watching over the last few weeks, you'll know that we've been doing a whole series of different interviews with people. And so this week we've got another interview for you. Just to say before I crack on with that, just to remember, if you've got questions and things you'd like to ask during this, do just type them in. If you're watching on Facebook now, do just type them in on the comments there, and we'll do our best to pick them up. Might pick them up near the end. It's quite difficult to flip between keep an eye on that and talking and sorting out cameras and things. So I'll try and keep an eye on it. But if you've got things you want to ask, do write them down, comment, and we'll deal with them near the end. So first of all though, it'd be good to introduce you to who I'm speaking to this week, and this week I am going to be chatting with Dave. So Dave, hello.
SPEAKER_00How are you doing?
SPEAKER_03I'm good, yeah. You alright?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, not bad, thank you. Not bad.
SPEAKER_03Good, good. Now um Dave, your fame spreads far and wide, but there'll be many people, there'll be many people watching who who won't know who you are. Uh so Dave, why don't you just tell us a little bit about who you are?
SPEAKER_00Who I am. I'm married to Zan. Uh we have three kids, Finn, Maisie, and Poppy. Um, heavily involved in church at All Saints Crobra. Um run the leadership team of Thirsty, which is a Friday night congregation that we have that meets on the second and fourth of the month. Um so I lead a team of guys to to run that, which is great fun. Um and also I'm in a band, I sing uh lead singer of Joan as well. So we do functions and weddings. I am the wedding singer as well. I'm not quite in that way, but uh we have great fun doing that, so that's a joy and a privilege to do that as well.
SPEAKER_03Nice, great. Okay, and so um you are a Christian. Yeah. Which is uh good. That's definitely a good start for these interviews. Um so tell us a bit about that then. I mean, have you always been a Christian? Tell us a bit about how you kind of came to faith and your background on the.
SPEAKER_00Pretty much. I think as far as I can remember, I've always been a Christian. I was um my mum and dad moved to Crowborough when uh I was three, and my brother was uh very small. And they came to Crowborough to live here and um wanted to get us christened, as was traditional with uh their family and the family views. Um so they went towards Saints to get us christened, and in the process of um getting us dunked, they uh they stayed. They they liked uh the church, they um they wanted to understand more about faith and get involved in that and found a place in church.
SPEAKER_03And so So they before that they had no faith at all.
SPEAKER_00There's nothing nothing nothing there at all in the family, other than a traditional view of Christianity, I guess. And the fact that you needed to be christened as a baby to to yeah, for something in the future, I guess. Um exactly, yeah, just in case. So um so we were christened and we were blessed to to grow up in the church. Um at the age of three, started in beginners, which was uh the first place I met my wife, uh, which was good. Not that we uh dated or anything at the age of three, but you know, we were in the same place at the same time. Yeah, I just met across dirty diamonds. Yeah, yeah. Um so that was a joy. Grew up through church, through beginners, through climbers, pathfinders, all those things. Um was actively involved. I was in the choir. I was very very keen, very um slightly square, I guess, as a youth.
SPEAKER_03Um, yeah, I did I had it classic.
SPEAKER_00I every Sunday I used to wear like black trousers with these white flecks, were really cool, and a shirt with a white leather tie with piano keys on it.
SPEAKER_03Oh it was oh it was that is I didn't think I was pretty cool at the time. Anyway, I mean it didn't play notes, did it?
SPEAKER_00I didn't know it was thin, it was cool.
SPEAKER_03Okay, yeah, tip tie. Anyway, so because if it had played notes, that's what would have made it uncool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would have been the issue.
SPEAKER_00Pushing it slightly too. Um so I do remember I was very um keen, enthusiastic, and I enjoyed being in the choir, singing in the choir. I was head chorister and all those kind of things. Um I was also involved in lots in the church, doing productions and dramas and things like that. Um, went through campaigners and through junior church and had an amazing time at Pathfinders. Um we had great leadership. We it was a really blessed time of growing up in the church. Um there was only three boys and there was over 20 girls, which was a great ratio for us growing up.
SPEAKER_03So that really was a part of emerging here. Last week Barney, Barney and I said about how I think Barney said he went to Youth Group and there was only like was he one of the guys who was there when you were there?
SPEAKER_00No, he was younger than me. He was doing the okay.
SPEAKER_03No competition.
SPEAKER_00So that was cool and uh really enjoyed Pathfinders. And then went on to TNT, which was the sort of uh older group, and that wasn't so easy because there were lots of older men and all the rest of it, and we kind of disappeared into insignificance at that point, but but it was still great to to grow up in the church, and I've always had a faith. Um I don't think I ever made you know the decision, or you know, there was never a life-changing decision to make. There was not I didn't have you know a very dark and dingy past, and then I sort of made a commitment and everything was perfect. Yeah, um, but I think so I it was just sort of a natural progression really through faith. I do remember sort of a seven years old going to youth camps and things like that, and people praying the prayer and thinking, well, why not? This is a good opportunity to you know concrete my commitment and all that kind of stuff. But um was always conscious that I'd made a decision plenty before that. Right. Um so yeah, I my faith was there, you know. Um and it was only really, I suppose, when I left Crover, I left um All Saints and went to university that um I was kind of not not not my faith was rocked or anything, I still very much had a faith and believed in Jesus, but you know, life changes and all of a sudden you go to university and there's lots of different things to do, lots of things to get involved in, lots of new people to meet.
SPEAKER_03Where where did you go?
SPEAKER_00So I went to Portsmouth, which was a great place to get.
SPEAKER_03We went to do engineering.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, mechanical engineering. Yeah. Um which was which was fun. It was hard. We worked hard compared with everybody else. You had very dossi degrees. I think I did a not like the theologians. No, over 30 hours of of contact time, which was huge.
SPEAKER_03I I think I had over 30 hours, probably if you combined it across the year. Over the whole year.
SPEAKER_00So that was a week. And um so that was fun. But I did a lot of drama, I always liked um performing and got involved in the drama society. I met lots of people from different backgrounds, which was great. And you know, your time fills up with doing those extra things, and it wasn't that I made a conscious decision not to go to church, but it just got was something that was squeezed out. I didn't um didn't have really enough time to do that or go to see. I tried it once or twice, but it was you know not quite the same and slightly hard to engage with some of those people. So um yeah, it took a bit of a back seat really, um, which was a sh which was a shame. And uh yeah, but it I was never never not a Christian and never certainly didn't not have a faith, but it became, I suppose, less of a priority in what was going on.
SPEAKER_03I guess I guess for a lot of people that's that's probably s even though that's a specific event, university time, yeah. For a lot of people, that's probably just the story of life, isn't it, in many ways that like easy, easy to see it happening. You know, thinking I mean there's loads people I guess we could name, we won't name them, but you know, there's probably lots of people we can think of from church who who never really said like, oh I don't want to go to church anymore, but they've just kind of stuff has got busy, you know, maybe they've got a bit older and they've got kids and family life and or work or whatever, and they just kind of gradually stopped coming to church and it's not really a it wasn't a a conscious decision.
SPEAKER_00Yeah it just kind of happens choked out by the realise where you've kind of ended up really. And um yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's a gradual drift, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00I guess they talk about you know and people say before you go away as you're gonna become a student, wise people in your church say you must find a church, you must get involved, you must get into CU. Yeah. And you go, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll do that. Yeah, of course, yeah, of course you are. But actually, it's so important, it really is important to really get that rhythm into your life early on, so that that's established, otherwise it gets squeezed out really easily.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00So we did that, um, and actually it was at when I was at university, probably at my most distant time from God, that I had an experience um in one church that really kind of just reminded me who God was. I went with some friends to uh their church for uh a special service, and I I remember um there was a a time of uh prayer and response at the end, and I felt you know a bit of a you know thumping in my chest to kind of do something about it and to pray. Yeah, and you know, I I certainly didn't want to make a scene, I certainly didn't want to be exposed. I mean, I was only a visitor to this church or anything, so you know I didn't want to do anything kind of crazy, but I felt that I had to go and go up for prayer, and by going up for prayer I really felt filled by the Holy Spirit, and I had a real encounter with God, something that I'd not had before and haven't had to the same degree since. But it was amazing, um an amazing time, and I do remember just feeling that God was kind of reaching out to me and just sort of bringing me back, and and you know, a real a real sense of um you know I need to let God take control of my life and not you know give him the reins over, and felt that through that process actually was a bit of um God just saying, Trust me, give me control, yeah. And that and and by doing that, that being an amazing, you know, liberating experience. Um and it was a really really special time, and then from that time forward, really coming back into Crobra through the summers and getting more involved in the church again, um, and then finishing my degree uh and moving back to to Crobra to get married to Zan and spend our lives here together, um, really getting back involved in the church, getting involved in the music, um, and being prompted or being asked if I'd consider being on the church council, which was one of those kind of daunting things which uh you can't really say no to, but you know, it's one of those things that you it's still quite hard work. And I just thought at the time I was so young, and you know, so kind of how old were you? Not wise, like just out of years 24 or something like that. Not particularly well, you know, but relative to all the old wise people that are on the council who've got years of theology behind them, and you know, they they know the decisions to take, they know what to do. And what can you bring at that age to that discussion, really? So I felt really out of my depth, but with all these things, you kind of do it in God's strength, and you know, if it's what he wants you to do, you kind of give it a go and see what happens, and know that he's gonna sustain you through it and give you the gifts and the skills you need to cope with it. Um, and actually, through that, I felt that actually I was there for a reason. God put me there to be part of a discussion. As part of the discussions we were having, we talked about Crober and how we could reach out into our community, how we could be more involved in that. Um, and I was on on a team of guys talking about how we could outreach, and one of the discussions we had was um what stopped people coming to church, um, whether they'd been um upset by church or something had happened that had turned them off church, or whether that being in church just didn't work for them, they didn't like being in the building and that kind of stuff. And from that we thought that it would be great to have a an informal church service that was really unchurched or not church, but certainly accessible for those people that didn't like church or had issues with church, and that's what became the the cop Friday night congregation that we have now. Um and so we really felt that you know you could see looking back that God had put us there in that discussion to be part of that leadership team. Yeah, and um it's been an amazing journey being part of that group and being part of the leadership team of that, and now leading that leadership team as well as a lot of things.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and because how long how old how many years is it now? Thirsty's been running the congregation now? Uh 14, something like that. Something like that, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. It keeps changing every year, so we distract it. Something like that. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But and it and and the thing about that is it's like uh twelve because Finn's twelve, and so it's pre-childing. It's pre-childing.
SPEAKER_03Well let me go there, it's more than twelve, yeah. And I mean we talked a little bit about thirsty last week, Barney and I, we're gonna get a huge amount of time, but um because we're all on the team for it. Just how do you think it's changed over the years? Because initially we talked about it, I mean, you said that it was for the unchurched, or that the phrase was used as the de-church, wasn't it? People who are a bit disillusioned the church and didn't want that anymore.
SPEAKER_00I it's a fresh exhibition of church, it's probably not so much of a fresh expression now, but it's still after 14 years, but it still really has a great purpose and it's a great opportunity to have more time and worship, um, and just to spend time together um you know in God's presence and praying and reflecting on all those things. There's there's just much more time and space than there is in a traditional Sunday service, yeah. And people um are happy for that, you know, the the format to be fluid and to to to be shaped as it needs to, so we can spend more time singing and we can spend more time praying and we can spend more time listening to God's word um being explained to us if if that's what the evening's doing. So and because it's Friday night, I think there's a feeling of well it's the weekend, let's enjoy this time together. Yeah. People are not so much in a rush to to get away at the end of the night. So you know it's a joy to be able to do it. We've got people from all walks of life that come, um and it's a special time, it's a special family that we have. Um yeah, yeah, we do and we spend a lot of time in testimony and stuff like that, and that's really helpful, I think, for other people that come to hear testimony and to share testimony.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And so, I mean we've got a bit of a sense, I guess, of who you are, where you've come from, and what life is it like. Um and I guess like life, you know, life is always kind of full of ups and downs and stuff, isn't it? But tell us a bit about the last couple of years then and some of the stuff that's happened then and what's been going on there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so last year, 2017, was certainly a journey for us. It was um quite a challenge. My um my brother, three years younger than than than me, um, was very ill at the beginning of last year. Um it was all a bit crazy time. I remember we just started some building work at our house. So um there was the first work of them really pulling the house to pieces and ripping the roof off. So, you know, everything's starting to go a bit crazy at home. And um it was uh one Monday coming back from work and I had a phone call that um Simon was um quite unwell, um uh uh and really um yeah, really struggling to breathe and stuff like that. I was having difficulties. Um which was which was one of those things. I I popped my head in on the way home um from work just to see how he was, um, because it was unusual really for for mum or dad, I can't remember which one had contacted me to tell me. Um and he was there and he had two paramedics with him, and he was really um struggling to breathe, he wasn't well at all. Um and I have to confess a little bit that at that point I just kind of thought it was a bit of a Simon saga. Our um our family, mum and dad, my brother, uh it's always there's always been ups and downs, and it's normally um kind of yeah. Simon has quite a a bumpy journey through life, I guess, and that's uh uh um and that's so that's quite normal. It was quite normal for there to be something going on for it to be about some it didn't seem to be. It didn't seem particularly unusual. No, um but so I I I mean I popped in to see him and and the the paramedics seemed to be dealing with him. Um he was asthmatic anyway, so I maybe assumed it was something to do with that. So I didn't think too much more of it. Um but went home that evening um and I got a phone call from my mother a few hours later, really, and she was absolutely distraught. I mean she was um sobbing, she was really concerned for him, and I I knew it was something much more than just uh just an an illness, just a a normal cold or something like that. Um and she she'd been told that it was pretty much touch and go, whether he'd survive the night, whether he'd make it through.
SPEAKER_03So what just so what kind of I mean? So symptoms.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so he just he'd got through the f the previous twenty-four hours I guess he'd guess he he was becoming ill, he had like um he was unwell, like a flu-like symptom temperatures and um mainly struggling to to to breathe, difficulty with breathing. Um so that was what he'd experienced, and he knew himself he was unwell, and so he'd contacted the doctor more than you normally would to say look, I'm not well. In the run-up.
SPEAKER_03In the run-up, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um and between you know, that Monday to the Tuesday um No, it was Monday, it must have been Monday night. So that Monday night he was by the end of the evening he was in intensive care and he was on life support. Um So that's how quickly that can come through. Um so after talking to Mum and hearing how distraught she was and that um that he might not survive, I went across to Pembury, I raced across to get there. Um and uh unfortunately in the time of getting across there, they'd already put him into an induced coma to enable his body to cope with what was happening to him. Um met with mum and dad, and uh as you'd imagine, they were just drained. I mean they were uh emotional and and they'd been really been through it. So they'd had to um basically say goodbye to their son, who who they weren't um sure would would would make it through. Um and that must be really difficult to have that conversation with your child to sort of prepare to say goodbye and to um prepare for the worst really. Uh my dad was able to pray with Simon. Uh he wasn't so Simon's always had uh a faith growing up in church and you know, he'd now he'd al he'd tell us that he'd always had a faith really, but it wasn't a priority for him, so we weren't fully sure, you know, that he he'd made a commitment and knew the Lord Jesus. So Dad was able to pray with him at that point. Um and then I can remember the consultant having to say to Simon as well, this is um we're gonna put you in a in into a into a sleep now so that we can monitor you and control you. And you might not come back from this. Um and how you you know, how you look at someone in the eyes and know what's gonna happen. Um had they said he said, you know, he said, come on, let's do this, you know, let's do it. He was uh very much forthright and and ready to fight.
SPEAKER_03So And how much and and so what did the doctors tell you about kind of so nobody knew what was wrong with it.
SPEAKER_00Nobody knew it. There was no diagnosis, nobody really knew what it could be. Um but what was clear was that he that you know he had an infection and his body was going into septic shock, so it was sepsis that was taking over his body. Um and sepsis is i it's sort of a bit of a flaw in in your body really where your body's starting to fight an infection, but it kind of overcompensates and everything fights everything. Right. You know, and the good parts fight the good parts. Um so you quite quickly go into sort of multi-organ failure, your heart packs up, your lungs pack up, your kidneys pack up, you know, everything uh is is falling apart, really, your skin as well starts to to destroy itself. Um and he really was in a bad way, and he was uh just completely purple. Uh you've never seen anything like it, it was just one big purple bruise, really. All over all over, head to toe. Um I don't think I've ever seen anybody die so ill. And when we got there I remember, you know, the the consultant saying, you know, he's in the best place, he's in the hospital, but he is really is the illest person in this hospital at this point in time. Um and they couldn't yeah, it was on I guess loads of antibiotics, but they couldn't get anything under control. So they they put him in a coma and um he was he was in that state for two sort of two weeks really. Um and it was touch and go all the way. So I left I left there that evening.
SPEAKER_03What's what's going through your mind in those kind of two weeks where Because I know like someone you know I I hate not knowing things, you know, and I'm I'm not a patient person.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Day by day as you're kind of like in a sense, was there any change or is it just he's just as he is and we have to keep waiting and Yeah, I mean you do you do want to know what's gonna go on, you want to know what's gonna happen at the end of it and you want to I mean certainly we prayed, but like I guess we've never prayed. Um and knew that God was in control and know that it's with him and it's in his hands, not understanding why it's happening or or even what the outcome might be, but knowing that he's got it and he's over it and in control of what's going on. Um but I don't think you look sort of long term in those in those situations. You it's hard to believe that it's actually happening to you. You suddenly realize that you know, you're you know, you're going through this and everybody else is looking at you and seeing that you're going through it, and and you know, praying for you and feeling sorry for you and all these things. But actually all you're doing is looking at the day ahead and trying to figure out how you're gonna get through that day and how you're gonna support people and how you're gonna support your family and um 'cause in the midst of all this you're you know, you're still working and
SPEAKER_03Kids are going to school, yeah. Yeah, still working.
SPEAKER_00I mean, that so that evening after coming away from from the hospital, we went to bed to try and sleep, and at two o'clock in the morning, got a phone call from the hospital asking me to come in with Zan and our three children and all come in for some medication in case it was meningitis. And because we'd been with Simon over the weekend, they wanted to um give us all some medicine. So, you know, at two o'clock in the morning we're waking the kids up, trying to explain to them what's going on, getting them to hospital, um, where we meet mum and dad and we have all this medicine, and the ambulance drivers and paramedics that had treated him were there as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um and we're all having this this precaution in case it was meningitis.
SPEAKER_03And then it turned out not to be meningitis specifically, but um Did they ever so the sepsis was a result of the sepsis was a result of the something else, but did they ever have the infection I think was a streptococcal pneumonia.
SPEAKER_00Right. Um so it was a something in his lungs, which I guess is why he was struggling to breathe. That was the initial infection. And that caused the sepsis throughout the rest of his body.
SPEAKER_03And is that something which is just you know, is that is it just come out of nowhere? There's no kind of real way of knowing kind of how that appears. Sepsis.
SPEAKER_00No, the the pneumonia kind of Well, I I don't think it was i it could be I think it was a common struct.
SPEAKER_03Anybody could have had the infection and it could have been as strong or as um So it's more how his body reacted to it specifically rather than what it was itself.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and the fact that that kicked the sepsis off, which was the horrific thing, really. Um so he was on life support for two weeks, um, and we watched as his um body started to fail and his he had to go on dialysis and he was on life support and uh it is amazing what modern medicine can do, and we heard a number of times that sort of three years earlier he wouldn't at all have got anywhere near well he wouldn't have survived at all. As much as three years, or as lit in his three years. Yeah, and the technology had moved on so much that he was able that they were able to treat every little bit of it um and get him through it and keep his organs going, which is amazing. So they protect the problem is well the the way they do it is they protect everything inside the body, so the extremes of the body um are kind of starved of blood flow and oxygen.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So the downside to the treatment is that over the course of the time you start to see um the extreme of fingers and toes going black uh and starting to die from from the outside. So that after really getting through the point that he was um not not dying, they were keeping him alive, then we realised that visiting day by day, you could see that his um his extremities were starting to die off, which was quite difficult. That so that was hard. So um you know, wishing him to be well, wishing him to come round, knowing that the longer it takes and the longer the circulation isn't getting to his fingers that you know he's he's losing um the fingers are dying off and things like that. And I remember um when the doctor was explaining you know, there it was 50-50 and that if he did come round, he wouldn't be whole potentially, he would have lost some limbs and things like that. Um and I can remember um again my mum saying but but he wouldn't want to live like that, you know? That would destroy him, but basically to be um not whole when he came through that would be um horrific. And we say we were praying and the whole church were praying, and it was amazing support from the whole of the church behind us, um, to know that people were praying and that we were loved and all those things and had a real peace through all of this, even though it's you know quite a a journey to go through. And we prayed and prayed for healing, for for physical healing. Um But I think what's amazing uh kind of coming out the other side of it is that he he has been so well, miraculously been able to cope with um so he is now in his disability and all the rest of it. So yeah, so so we had two weeks in intensive care, they brought him out of a coma, and then he was in intensive care for another six weeks. Um the problem was as they were bringing him out of the coma, he was fighting, you know, fight his body's fighting, he's fighting. So every time I started to bring him round, he'd get violent with the nurses, he'd rip all his cables out, he'd try to get out of bed. Um was that just almost involuntary or was he aware of I think semi-conscious and you know having amazingly weird dreams and trying to your body, brain trying to understand where you are and what's going on. So it was fighting everything, and um it was quite um challenging to see him like that and to see the look in his eyes and to see as he looked at you, it wasn't you know it wasn't him behind his eyes, if you know what I mean. There was like an anger or a craziness behind there. And then not really knowing whether he was gonna be the same again and knowing and one I remember once thinking, have I you know, have I really seen the last of him? Is it is are we gonna get him back? Is he is he gonna be um is he gonna be well or not? Um so that was six weeks in intensive t in intensive care and you know, th the fingers were pretty much black to the hands, um and his ankles were completely black. And and um unfortunately as part of the the process of kind of keeping him alive, he'd lost um his fingers and toes and one of his feet. Um and then there was a sort of period of six months he was in the hospital total um where it became clear that he would have to have amputation on both legs below the knee and uh wouldn't have fingers and toes. Now for him, you know, as a musician, these these things are uh are huge for someone who's so creative and loves to play and you know, do those things. And as I said before, really, it it'd always been difficult for him through life. Um he'd always struggled a bit with that, I suppose, with depression and you know, just coping with life. And the thought for all of us really of how is he gonna get through this, how is he gonna get through this hurdle? Um, how is he gonna cope being disabled? How is he gonna cope with depression? How is he gonna cope with the life-changing things that he was going th through was um yeah, was something that really weighed on all of us. Um and then so there then it is really miraculous that he has been able to do as well as he's done with with all of the the disability, with the whole process of having the amputation, with the rehabilitation. Um we used we visited him so after s yeah, then he went to a rehab centre in London uh after about six months, and to visit him there and to see how how he was thriving, how he was the centre of the group, how he was the energy in the room, which was amazing really. Um so we see we saw we saw answer to prayer, we saw the miraculous healing, not in the physical but in the spiritual, in his person, in his well-being, and his you know, in his outlook on life. Um that's where we've seen miraculous healing, really.
SPEAKER_03He's because it seems, you know, like you say your mum was obviously so worried about how he was going to be, but it seems, well from what you've said, but also from what I've seen of him as well and what I hear of him, that it's not a case of he's come out of it and he's coping with life. Almost like he's he's just taken it and run with it, you know, almost in a way that he wasn't even before, yeah, you know, in some ways, yeah. Just living life.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he's I mean he is thriving, he's he's got an energy, he's got an identity. Um and he has taken the opportunities that the disability's brought him, and I hope in the future, you know, that he'll make the most out of that and be able to do things more as well, um, because of the disability, but you know, to to encourage other people and to yeah, make the most of it. So and and amazingly as well, he's from someone who had a faith but didn't really like church, didn't really like um never really liked people, you know, knowing what was going on, didn't really like being around people, not particularly sociable, since um getting out of hospital and having his um artificial legs fitted and stuff like that. He's in church and he's been in church regularly, um, and just he was overwhelmed by the love that people have for him, not the fact that they were meddling or you know, all those problems that he had with church before, but actually they genuinely cared for him and loved him and have been praying for him. Um I think that blew his mind really and still probably does.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um it's great to see him in church, he's comfortable in church, he um he still enjoys going to the pub and he drags friends and people that he meets from the pub into church. You know, he makes no excuses for it, doesn't try to explain it, he just brings anybody in who's wants to see what goes on in church, and it's great to see that he's um yeah, got a new energy and um a new purpose in life. He's got a new job, which I think has helped as well, and he gets he feels valued in that and um enjoying doing that as well. So it's all good.
SPEAKER_03I guess like uh it would be so it's so easy it'd be so easy to think, wouldn't it, that if something like that happened to you, it would be so easy to become bitter about it and to let it eat you up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, you know. And I mean the thing that struck me is I mean, I think I mean you mentioned it just now, like coming through it and finding an identity in it actually, and I think when we chatted about it, you know, you said he he almost found a value through it, and I just thought actually that's that's quite an amazing thing when you think about our society, because our society is very much um very keen to be inclusive of people who've had disabilities, um, but yet at the same time we're also going down a road where you know on the on the kind of pre-birth front where as they scan for disabilities, you know, certain countries, but also in this country, are pushing further towards the idea that it would be better to to kill someone than for them to have a life with a disability. And actually, your brother is just a living proof that that is a complete nonsense, isn't it? That actually not only had dad does he still have a life, but he has um and it it's not a although of course there I'm sure there are things that are a struggle for him and and still are an issue, um, it's a fulfilled and joyful life full of value and meaning, and not just for him, but he can bring that to other people as well. Um it just strikes me that you know here we are in this rather bizarre society that simultaneously is saying let's let's be inclusive of people like this, but also can we quietly wipe this out, you know.
SPEAKER_00Um I think I'm sure he does have down times, but you know, he's got the strength and you know the drive to to to keep above it and to keep pushing on. Uh and God has um you know blessed him through this and you know he is a new a new person through through all of this, um, which is amazing, an amazing answer to prayer at the end of a a long journey, and a journey that will carry on for some some well forever, I guess or through him. Um but yeah, it's yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I guess an an important thing to say as well, I mean you you I think you use the word miracle, it's an absolute miracle. In in praying, you know, in some sense people would look and say, um, you know, oh but he didn't get healed in the sense of like everything was safe and you know, obviously it's cost him a lot physically but actually the healing God has brought to him.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean because he could I mean he could have so easily just you know spiraled into depression and just you know and rightly be, I'm the victim, this is unfair, why has this happened to me?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um of everybody, why has this happened to me? How could God let this happen to me? And he could be like that, uh but he's and naturally he he probably would be like that, but he's not been at all, and um and that's just amazing as well, right?
SPEAKER_03That's yeah, yeah. That's God and so all this I mean all this stuff is going on, and obviously it's uh you know, and a massive thing to kind of be dealing with in life, but then also at the same time as all this is going on, kind of work itself isn't that great. Yeah, so tell us a bit about that and what's going on there.
SPEAKER_00So that's all happening. The house is still being ripped to pieces, so that's just the worst time to start building projects, as you'd imagine, and um so that's all going on, and at the same time, work's getting harder and harder. So um I worked worked for an automotive company making diesel engines for cars, and obviously um diesel's had a bad press, and and the politics as well around it has you know driven diesel down. Um so you know, there's not the the future investment that's coming in diesel technology, there's not the new development in new engines, which is where I was working. So we were working on um on the design um and manufacture or or um the launch of new diesel engines for uh for cars mainly. Um and my team were responsible for the design and development of the new engines and then making them or launching them for production, um, picking suppliers and being responsible for supplier development. So that's where we were focused. And when diesel was booming, it was a great time. We were you know really um the the the industry was really booming, there was lots to do, it was a real you know fun place to work. And I learned a lot through that experience. I learned a lot about leadership, I learned a lot about leading a team, project management, um, crisis management, all those great things. And um so knew that that was right for a season. God had kind of put me into that job from previously making me redundant in another one, um, and led me to that job, and that was the right job for a season. But and knew maybe over the last sort of five, six years, that really um the work-life balance wasn't great, there was a lot of travel abroad, there was a lot of stress and pressure, and felt that you know I should be doing something else, and um was looking to see where that might be, but could never really see the opportunity or the time to change or or where what industry I'd move into in the southeast because it's quite limited in terms of manufacturing. So that's where we were. I was fighting a declining market uh and diesel, looking to get across into other product lines to secure our jobs or my job, my team's job. Um, had the team in the UK, but we're developing a manufacturing centre in Romania, uh, which was um great, and developing a team there, but by developing a team there, kind of you know, you could see we were kind of making ourselves redundant in the UK and a high cost country. So fighting all of that, thinking how can I um how can I secure a job at this place in the future? So, really working hard, working all the hours. The alternative products were in China, so manufacturing was in China, engineering was in the US, we're in Europe, so you can imagine trying to work early in the morning on all the manufacturing problems in China, trying to fix all the design issues late into the evening in in America, and it was just totally exhausting. Um and I and equally I feel um yeah, maybe I won't say that because this is going this is going out, isn't it? So um so we were in I was in this really difficult situation and um didn't really and was trying to just survive with Simon's issue and everything else that's going on. Um and the long and short of it is really after working as hard as I could, had great respect for my my leadership team, uh my leaders above me, and was really valued. But at that point the leadership team changed as well, so they brought in a new purchasing director um and a new immediate boss for me. And um you could see by the approach they were kind of looking to change the structure and um you know save some bucks where they could so knew it was gonna be a difficult journey. And at one point after fighting for a long time, I was brought into a a discussion. Um I knew I couldn't have done anything more actually in my own strength. I couldn't have worked any harder or anything like that. I knew I'd been um I'd worked as hard as I could. So I was was comf was comfortable in that, but was brought into a discussion where I thought we were gonna talk about reorganisation for the new projects, and I was told actually that I was uh my job was under threat and I was uh potentially gonna be made redundant if I couldn't find something else within the business. And at that point I could have gone two ways, I guess. I could have fought and fought hard. Um I had lots of potential um I had lots of information on things that hadn't been done well or done right, and I could have demonstrated that I'd you know I'd worked as hard as I could work, and that my um performance was a was uh above where it needed to be, um, and what they were saying was unfair and unfounded. But I just felt actually a real sense of peace at that point when we had that conversation and knew that God was in control. You know, that point where you go, This is how it's gonna be, this is how I'm gonna find a new job, this is how I'm gonna get into the next chapter. Um, you know, this is the opportunity that God's brought together, and that's how it's gonna be. And and so I could I could find probably a job for myself. There were some offers of of work within the current company I was in, you know, same salary, same deal, same same benefits. But I actually felt that it was time to um just yeah, to see what God had in store next. And you know, take that step of faith. And it's it really is a step of faith when you know you have to be dependent on God, because there are options you could do kind of in your own strength, and you know, people will tell you why don't you just stay in that company and you know, yeah, stay on the good money and have the job security and do something else. But actually felt led to to take that step of faith and um to resign and to to or take a redundancy and um then see what God had in store, and then that there's a piece around that, and it was that was an yeah. Uh it was there was a good piece around that. And then and then obviously some panic when you realise that you haven't got a job and you've got to pay the mortgage and now you really are dependent on God to provide. Um but God's amazing and faithful, and you know, his plans are always the best. Looking back on all the things that we've been through, you know God's in control, and you can see his um plan for you in a direction, and you end up doing things that you really wouldn't have assumed you could do in your you wouldn't have even thought yourself possible to do. Um I look back on the leadership and see that that's you know, God's prepared me for that and put me in that position. Um on the music side, I never thought that I'd be in a band or you know that um that was something that God just sort of brought out of the blue, and you know, you take a step of faith and yeah, right now I'm sort of fronting that band and being part of that band, and that's really good and really exciting. And you just see God's blessing and provision across all the things you do.
SPEAKER_03And the work thing kind of worked itself out, didn't it, actually, in terms of what you can see afterwards.
SPEAKER_00So I applied for all the sensible jobs that I should. Um, there was quite a few sensible jobs that I would really fit. My CV was great for those manufacturing jobs, quality jobs, um, supply chain development jobs in aerospace around the Gatwick and things like that, things that really made sense. And I heard nothing on any of those, or resounding nose all over the place. And and okay, so that was me pushing the sensible door. And do you know we were really you really pray in those situations, Lord? You know, open the door or keep the door firmly shut, and all the doors were staying firmly shut. And I remember to go to a meeting where it's um business leaders facing the workplace and just sort of announcing that I'd been made redundant in more of a dramatic way than I planned actually. It was like everybody was like, Oh, really? And everybody's really sympathetic and really sorry for me. I was like, I didn't mean it to be like that. Anyway, it was all good. Um, it's good to share in a church family, and people are ready to support you, it was great. Um, but then from that, um Tom McDowell, who's uh also on our leadership team, approached me and said, you know, he'd been praying and looking for someone to help run his business, um, and um really thought that I might be that person to join his team. And and that's a that's amazing when you when you consider that it's he's got a construction business, um, and I really don't know anything about construction at all. And so again, that's done some Lego, done some a lot of Lego. Um obviously I I I knew about management of people and project management and that kind of transfers, but you know, it's a a leap of faith for him too to start those discussions, and we really felt between us talking it through that God was blessing it, and it was provision for him and it was provision for me and my family as well. Um and I've been working there six months now, and it's been amazing to be to be learning a new industry, to be challenged, to be you know, to to realise that you can learn something new at this point in life as well is quite it's quite um encouraging. It's good. So it's been a good process of of of learning the new products and learning how to build buildings, and also how to um use the business for um building the kingdom as well, because you know that's where we see the the businesses the opportunity in the business is to is to is to make money and to build buildings, but also to to change the lives of the people we meet and to come into contact with and the people that can come and work with us and You know, we've got the opportunity to employ people and to give them um a safe place to be as part of a a safe team, which is uh which is a great privilege. And it's great to be able to do that. And um yeah, to run the business for for kingdom work as well. Building a kingdom as well as building buildings, which is uh yeah, it's been great. So that's really yeah after a very difficult year, yeah, and looking back is is quite amazing. It's been um yeah.
SPEAKER_03So I mean looking back, I mean, over the last, you know, kind of 80 months, two years, obviously all the stuff with your brother, all the stuff with work, um and I'm just aware, I mean, there are probably people who you know, uh uh whatever word you want to use, you know, suffering, hardship, difficulties, um, there will be people who who are going through stuff, maybe they're ill or they've got family who's ill, or or that or work is hard or family life is difficult, whatever it is. I mean, how do you think I mean how do you think your faith has helped you through those those things, those moments?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think my faith is key. I think without that I wouldn't I don't know, I would have had a breakdown a long time ago. I think well I would have had a breakdown just over work, let alone work on top of my brother's condition, on top of trying to do an extension at home and all those things. You know, God sustains you and equips you and um just you know there's there's peace and there's hope uh in in in his power, the fact he's in control. You know that no matter what's going on, that that that God is ultimately in control and um has the best plans for you, that he loves you, that he's called you into a relationship with with him. Um you know that he's equipping you and enabling you to to do what he wants you to do, and you know he's not gonna let you down. You know it's um you don't fully understand all the things that are happening, but um you know that he is in control and that gives you peace and that gives you hope. Um I think if you don't I mean I think it'll be hard if you don't I don't know how you cope with life if you haven't got that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean I always think like if you think it's just if if you have no nothing beyond this is entirely random that must be very different.
SPEAKER_00I've just got to do it my own street. I've just gotta work harder and do more and I i it's unach uh you can't, yeah. You just it's just impossible to juggle all those balls, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03I guess even where stuff is hard, there's a reassurance, isn't there, and knowing that it's not random, that God is in control and you know there is a plan, you know. Although it can seem really trite, can't it, to be like, you know, God works all things together for good and stuff. Because you can be said tritely, but actually I think it's a comfort for the the believer, isn't it, to know that it's not just random. Um and I I mean the way I've sometimes talked about suffering with in illustration wise has been like that for us it's a bit like one of those monet paintings, you know, that when you're we're right up against it, you know, and it because it's all broad brush strokes and dabs of paint here and there, when you're up against it, you just have you can't make sense of it. But like obviously the further you go away from it, you see the big picture, and God always has the big picture. And it may be that we never get to see the full picture in this life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. By kind of completely, somehow sometimes we do get a bit of a we can look back in hindsight and say, I can see how God used that very hard thing. Yeah. Um but I mean it must be very difficult if you literally think it is just random, there's nothing else, and yeah, there is no hope ultimately. There's no reason the sun will come up tomorrow. Yeah. You know, whereas for us we know. Um it will be.
SPEAKER_00And and equally the experience as well as going through all of that and gives you an understanding and a you know uh an understanding of what other people are going through when you you want to pray with them and you want to encourage them and those kind of things. It's um yeah. I think to be able to use that experience to to help and um support other people in what they're going through is also you know an immense benefit.
SPEAKER_03So great. Well um I think we've kind of come to the end of our time. Dave, thanks so much for for chatting with me and for sharing your story, and I I know it's an amazing story, and I'm sure well, I'm sure it's helpful for people at home and people will be picking this up on the podcast and uh maybe on YouTube and Facebook later on and stuff. Just to say, um, or if you're if you're watching on Facebook at the moment, um I've put down in the comments we did a few Glenn and I did a thorny question series on suffering. So we've got four videos there, I think they're all in the comments. There's a playlist I've linked to. Um you can find it on our YouTube channel as well in the playlist there, Speak Life UK. Um so you know, there might be stuff in there that if you're finding stuff hard at the moment, experiencing suffering and you're kind of questioning what's going on, we hope there's some helpful stuff in there. We hope that um what we've been talking about today has been helpful for people to hear um and has encouraged you. Um next week I'm going to be joined by Tom McDowell, um, who's Dave's boss actually. Um so we'll probably find out a bit more about um the that business and some of what that looks like. But Tom's got an amazing story as well. He's an ex uh Marine who's come through alcoholism um to find the Lord. Um so it's an amazing story. So again, there might be people who you know that would be relevant for, and you you might say, listen in, or you could share that with them next week. So do tune in same time next week. Um just a flag up as well, in terms of Speak Life, um vague news next week, um Tuesday and Wednesday, I'm speaking at All Saints Eastbourne at their youth events. Um so I'd really value your prayers in preparation for that. All the um all the talks, I only do two nights, but all the talks are themed around um uh song titles from the greatest showman.
SPEAKER_00Oh no. I may be a bit of a fan of the greatest showman.
SPEAKER_03Um so um yeah, so and based not just the titles but the songs, so um pray for me as I prep for those. There's actually some quite good material in there, so I'm actually quite um looking forward to getting on with it a bit more. So do pray for that. Guys, thank you so much for joining us. Um, I hope it's been helpful. Share our stuff, like the page, um, all the usual bits, and uh enjoy your weeks, and we'll see you next time. Thanks very much.
unknownBye.