The Speak Life Podcast, sharing Jesus in everyday life.
SPEAKER_01Hello! That's a very awkward start there when my computer decided to do something that I hadn't intended it to. Hello and welcome to the live cast. Thanks for joining us this week. If you're a regular watcher, it's good to have you with us. If you're tuning in for the first time, welcome to you. Good to have you. You would notice again we're in another location. These live casts are coming from more and more exotic locations every week. So we've had my back garden, we've had my dining room, and now we've got my living room. So by the end of this seven or so weeks, we'll have done every room in the house. Join me next week from the bathroom. See how that goes. I've not told Dave yet we're gonna be in the bathroom my next interviewee. Um we won't really be in the bathroom, so don't worry about that. Um as you've probably seen, we're doing some interviews, and maybe you've seen on uh on the blurb for this and over the last couple of days that I'm gonna be speaking to Barney. So I've got Barney here with me today. Barney, hello. Hello. I say Barney, although on all the info I've called you Ian Barnard. So it might be strange for you to say that though. It's very strange for me to say that. So yeah, so this is Barney. Um Barney, welcome. Uh your name isn't really Barney though, is it?
SPEAKER_00No, no, no. So my my name's Ian Barnard, it's just that uh my surname overshadows my first name.
SPEAKER_01I can't I can't actually think of you as an Ian. It's it's just I I don't know anyone that calls you Ian apart from your mum.
SPEAKER_00Well I'm in trouble.
SPEAKER_01When you so I think I've said to you before about taking your uh I was on the church minibus driving it round to pick up some old ladies and your mum was giving me directions where to go and she just said out of nowhere. Um have you seen Ian recently? And I was just like, Who's Ian? And I was like, Oh Barney, so right, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think it came around. I only got it when I first started going to church as a teenager. Yeah, and it was just like um you know, Ian was such a uh you know, compared to the Barnard, it was just can come compete.
SPEAKER_01Even your wife calls you Barney, so so they that shows how pervasive she looked confused at a wedding, so take Ian, who's Ian? No, yeah. Oh this guy. Um so uh yeah, Barney, that's what we're gonna go with. We keep rolling with Barney.
SPEAKER_00So the thing is actually what I get is um when I get some of the people from other countries where uh they have their names turned around. Oh yeah so I often get hello Barnard.
SPEAKER_01So um Oh dear. Right, so yeah, so now you know that if I'm calling Barney Barney, I can't even call you Ian, I just call you Ian Barney. Um so Barney and I uh we know each other through church, um because we've been at the same church for a good while now, and we're on the team together at our cafe church, Thirsty.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and we'll probably chat a little bit more about that later and what that is. Um most of the time, most of our communication with each other occurs through puns and memes via Facebook, doesn't it? It does, it does indeed. Um yeah, I don't know why we have such a love for puns. Uh well, I think it's because it's it's it's in us naturally, and yeah, as it is because we're making the image of God. Um Jesus, because Jesus uses lots of puns, plays on words, doesn't he? Give us an example. Well, so he talks about the wind, you know, the wind blows where it wants, but no one knows where it goes in John 3 when he's talking to Nicodemus. But wind and spirit are the same words. Oh, okay. And in the same passage I think it is, you got you must be born again, and born again um could also mean or sorry, again could also mean from above.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So you know, again from above. So he's always doing pl so I think biblical warrant for um for puns that's a good yeah. So if anyone ever says to you, like, oh man, all those puns you keep sharing, they're so awful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Say, well, it was good enough for Jesus.
SPEAKER_00So Yeah, but he obviously he had a perfect pun. We can never match up.
SPEAKER_01I'm not claiming that our puns are on the level of of uh of Jesus, but uh but definitely and also I mean sarcasm. Paul uses sarcasm in in Corinthians, so again, I think biblical warrant for a bit of sarcasm. Yeah This is the most biblical forms of humour, puns and sarcasm, absolutely. Um and some of you uh so the other thing that Barney and I have uh that links us is that Barney and I are often mistaken for the same person.
SPEAKER_00I I think it's it's hard to say whether we look alike or not. It's just that people have confused us for some reason.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and on more than one occasion. So um I so so t the t there are two Well, there's one main occasion that comes to mind. So we had a church meeting a long time ago, I think it was an APCM, when we were considering a church plant.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And um and it was very, you know, it was very hard to know whether it was going to happen or not. And I got up and said something at the front about how like we should do it. Um You don't like to um share your feelings. No, I I didn't mince my words, I think and I I think I said basically there was a danger of us stagnating and we needed a kick up the bum, I think was my exact phrase. Um and um one lady took a great exception to this, she was very angry about what I said, so um afterwards she sought out Barney and gave him a piece of her mind because she thought Barney was me.
SPEAKER_00Um and because I'm the opposite to you and I'm not great with confrontation, I just like okay.
SPEAKER_01And and it happened at least twice, didn't it? That another time you um you uh I think it was was it the same lady? I don't know. So I I offended someone.
SPEAKER_00We might have based this all on just one person.
SPEAKER_01It may be, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but then also because even our children have mistaken. Oh yeah, I came into kitchen to go get a drink and your daughter goes daddy. So yeah, it's um yeah, we if you if you're watching this and thinking why they're just two of the same persons sitting in the seats there, um you're you're not the first. Um and so Barn, um, and you've got a bit of a tendency to have embarrassing things happen to you. Yes. Tell us a bit about your driving test.
SPEAKER_00So um yeah, so my my first driving test, which obviously from that comment means I didn't pass it. Um What went wrong, Barn? What went wrong? Um so uh I I did the whole test. I'd driven around with the um Invigilator or what are they called, test examiner, and I'd passed it even when I got back to the test centre.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00And I'd and and this is answering all the questions that they they they gave you as well, and I got into car park, I'd still passed, yeah, and then I crashed into the test center and the and the and the examiner just said didn't want to do that, did you? And he goes, uh I'm gonna have to fail you then. Oh man. And it was just you know when a situation is like that, it's just so bad that you have to laugh because otherwise you just can't. It's just too big to really comprehend.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, was it uh was it a high speed crash? Yeah, did you was it that kind of foot on the accelerator at the last moment?
SPEAKER_00I just I don't know if it was nerves kicking in, because it you know, we're like you shake, and I just didn't put the uh foot on the brake hard enough and uh just I could have just literally just stole like stalled in the middle of the car park or just stopped in the middle of the car park. I I went into a space and crashed into the wall.
SPEAKER_01So yeah. But you know, obviously you went back and you you did you completed it at the end, so it was all good. I learned from my mistakes. So um we're gonna chat a bit about your work in a in a while because you're a you're a graphic designer. Is that is that the title you go by?
SPEAKER_00Um I suppose less say now more of letterer, hand letterer. Letterer, okay. Because I all I do is based around letters now. I used to be graphic design, so I'd do uh a lot of everything, whether that's websites or magazines or brochures, business cards, logos, all that sort of thing. But now I just do custom lettering. Bit more niche now. Bit more niche, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Niche, yeah, yeah. Okay, we'll we'll we'll we'll come back and talk about that in a bit. Uh but uh you you are a Christian, which is a a good thing for that sort of place. Yeah, you've come to the right place. Um so tell us a bit about that then. Like have have you always been a Christian? How's that kind of come about?
SPEAKER_00Uh so I haven't always been a Christian, but um I sort of went to church annually, maybe for Christmas, maybe Easter, um, or the odd funeral or um wedding, church wedding. Um but uh why m my and the reason why I started going to church was because my best friend invited me along when I was about 15 and he with the enticing lines of uh you can skateboard around the halls and there's pretty girls. And so for a teenage boy, that's like win-win, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I don't think you're the first Christian man who is enticed into uh Christian events by that. I w I was definitely invited to a a camp a long time ago by someone.
SPEAKER_00Uh so uh and so I went along and yeah, Tutu's word, I just go around round the halls, and uh it was a really big youth group at that, so there was lots of people there. Um and for me I really enjoyed the social aspect of having that it was on Sunday night and just having the you know making new friends and it was just the highlight of my week going along for the social aspect of the of the youth group. And but while I was going over that sort of year, first year there, I was just absorbing all the sort of teaching and um the stuff I was learning from from the Bible, through the speakers, through just reading it myself. And um uh that like end of that year I went to a camp and and sort of like committed my uh life to Christ. I I mean I felt uh and I felt there was something missing, or you know, subconsciously felt there was something missing until that point, and then I just you know felt f fulfilled and sort of complete-ish as you can as a teenager when you're still finding yourself. Um and but yeah, it wasn't always plain sailing because that uh youth group uh uh a big portion of it sort of uh jumped away and were enticed by sort of um drink and drugs. Uh, you know, the pub became more popular. And i I had to make a choice between following what they were doing uh and and keeping those friendships, or just losing those friendships and starting with new ones that would not take my life in that direction. And it was really hard for me to do because when I was younger, friends was just really something I was very insecure whether people liked me, you know, that sort of insecurity things, and s and so it was really hard for me to make that decision, but I'm glad I did, because I didn't really want to go down that uh avenue. I did do rebellious I was a teenager, but having made that decision and making some new friends, and that was friendship grew much smaller, um, it really did help me to sort of stay um closish to God, but obviously things happen and you're always drawn back to different things. Um yeah, so that's sort of the you know where my journey sort of started. Um and yeah, then through that I sort of led into leading the youth group uh helping to lead the youth group uh for quite a few years.
SPEAKER_01So when you were a little bit older?
SPEAKER_00A little bit older. Because I didn't I didn't go off to university. I went off to college, but it was a local one. Yeah. So I didn't have to yeah, I didn't stay away.
SPEAKER_01Um I was So did you in some ways not face you know, when people kind of go after college or university or whatever, there's often that kind of oh it's really hard being a Christian. Was there still that element, or even though you were still kind of at home or less of that?
SPEAKER_00I suppose there's less of that because you've got that consistency of you know, because it you sort of nobody knows you sort of thing when you go to university, nobody knows your background, stuff like that, and you sort of sometimes can just go completely off the rail. There's like a lack of accountability knowing. And so there, I suppose in some ways it it was easier, in some ways you get stuck in a routine, and sometimes you don't grow um um by by uh at that similar sort of point, that's when I met my now wife, uh Lindsay, um, but she went to university quite far away, sort of the other side of the country, yeah. Um about sort of um a you know, I I live in the south east and she got went to university in the southwest, so I got to experience I went to visit her regularly at weekends, and so I got to experience that side of it and how uni life. Yeah, and um how if you don't get into the right church and there's not that support network, I know my wife struggled with that while she was at university, and so had to when she came back, that's when her faith sort of grew a lot more because um there was a bigger support network there than there was uh when she was in university. So yeah, so I think yeah, it's what swings and roundabouts. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and and I've not prepped you on this, and you might not even remember, but I years ago you I think it was you were giving a testimony, your testimony at Thirsty, um Thirsty BMR Cafe, BMR Cafe Church, which we'll we'll talk about a bit more. Um and and you used a phrase which it it uh it obviously needs a bit of context, but you said You're not gonna get me in trouble, but um you said something like you know, I became a Christian and Jesus really messed up my life, like and and actually I I thought it was a really helpful thing because what I think what you meant, you might not remember it, um, because I think maybe I've asked you about it uh other times, but it was that like when you become a Christian, and I think maybe in reference to some of that stuff like the youth group and people going different ways, you know, actually following Jesus it is it in in many ways we say yeah, it sorts this out and stuff, but following Jesus is hard, and there are all these hard decisions, and you know you know, even now as Christians, I suppose many of us could say as Christians, if we didn't, it would be much easier not to follow Jesus. Yeah you know, like the road is narrow and the road is wide, it'd be much easier to go and walk the wide path. Um but I just thought it was really refreshing to hear someone say, you know, I became a Christian, and it wasn't like everything suddenly was all swings and round, you know, all uh rows swings and rounds roads and what no as a Christian you I suppose you're trying to live a holy life, which is which is hard because there's so many things that stop you doing that.
SPEAKER_00Um but if you don't want to, then it's yeah, like I say, it's really easy. So I think it's a decision you make that's not an easy one. Yeah, um and uh yeah, for me it was I I suppose as soon as I became it was like just all these all these sort of barriers not barriers, all these um sort of different trials came out, but you know, decisions I make and uh and actually we did um in uh yeah in the church museum we did a qu um a series where we looked at the Ten Commandments and um you know it's something that a lot yeah you know even people that don't go to church know of. But when we actually put them into a practical sense, how does that look like? And one of them that really stood out for me was um the do not steal. And I was like, Oh, I don't steal, I don't steal cars or you know, break into someone's house. But you just drive them into walls, yeah. It was a cash point, right? Um uh off gold, I said uh the Ten Commandments. Don't steal. Don't steal. And and actually it was actually it's the small things, it's like um uh you know, I was in uh uh uh work and it's all about you know um uh saying, Oh, I need a pen. And they're like, I'll just take one, yeah. I need you know, pen for home. I'll just take one out of the store cupboard. Yeah, you know, no one knows to say, you know, a pen. And it really affects me, especially when it was a time around people were like copying music and just like putting like Dallas of the Internet and put it on CD, yeah, or someone would copy it for you. And they're like, Well, the music companies make a lot, you know, enough money already, you know, it doesn't matter, you know. What's it you know, here the same with the movie companies, and I was like, oh and actually just saying no no no, I'm I'll I'll get my own copy was massive in terms of the conversation with someone, they're like you know, they're really taken aback about you and it was through those sort of small things that actually uh really yeah, you th you think it's a bigger life decision, which actually quite a lot of those little little what you think throwaway things integrity in the what seems like small things.
SPEAKER_01You know, that the majority of us as Christians are not gonna be going around murdering and stabbing, you know, all those kind of things, or or obviously shoplifting. Um but there are those examples, and we I think we'll talk a bit later about in the workplace integrity and it is stuff like that, isn't it? I mean the the music thing is a big one actually because I think I remember at university like we we all had our you know everyone had a laptop or whatever and everyone in in the first year on who was on campus, if you had your iTunes open, you could have this um there was a little program that allowed you to see everyone else's iTunes. Okay. Like not just a few people, like everybody. Yeah, and you could just double-click the tracks and take and be like, oh great, yeah, I'll listen to that, listen to that, and and it would download it as well. And I remember just being really convicted, like, you know, at the time you didn't think anything, but a few years later being really convicted of like, actually, no, this isn't that's not right. Yeah, and like going through my music and deleting about 2,000 tracks, you know, of stuff.
SPEAKER_00And the thing is you don't uh in the time, I like yeah, I had Napster, which was what you know, yeah, like we downloaded, you know. I was like, this is well fine, you know, then you know that won't matter that I'm downloading a few, and it's like yeah, and I was just like I had hundreds of copies of these, and I was just like gonna have to get rid of all this. Yeah. And it and you know, now it's different because you know, a lot of the time just stream music and you you either pay or like Spotify's free if that's like that.
SPEAKER_01Who owns music now?
SPEAKER_00I know what I know, so that sort of dis that decision is is less of a and you know, mu and like the same with movies, you know, actually just having physical things is just actually a bit more of a hassle now. Yeah, physical content, yeah, yeah. Physical media, just you're so now it's I suppose less of an issue, but back then it was just it was it was a really big big thing, and it really sparked off a lot of conversations with people, yeah, which was actually really helpful, hard but helpful. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well let's let's talk a bit about your work, yeah, because obviously you're doing what you do now, kind of lettering, and we'll come to that. But tell us a bit about what you did before that. And I spoke to you the other day, you said you always had this kind of goal to work for a Christian organization.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so um so I left I left college and got a job um at a design and printers. Um I was literally like the sort of T-boy. I started as a T-boy in terms of design where I'd be just doing um typesetting. So I'd have a program, a black and white program for a school, all the sporting fixtures, sporting fixtures for the school. I just have to update the dates and stuff like that. So it's quite you know, it felt quite mundane at least. Entry-level kind of thing. But I was like, you know, it's quite hard sometimes to come straight out of college, university, and get a job. And I thought brilliant, this is you know, my first job. Uh that it was a design agency, I could see you know, I could progress. Progress. Um, and I did, and when there was downtime, so I would teach myself, I taught myself how to do web design, taught myself how to uh use any you know particular programs, get certain effects and stuff like that. So um it was really, and I say the seven years made some really good relationships that you know um really firm friends from that that place, and then really good knowledge having printers underneath where the design studio, so I knew the process of um how it went from the digital form to the physical form. Um but then I you know I had a had a permission to really want to work for a Christian organisation with my design work, and um and that came along and I got to work, um, applied for a job, a part-time job at Christianity and Youth Work magazine um as the lead designer of the Christianity magazine. And is that based here? Uh well part of it is based in Crowbro, yeah. Uh which is the uh it was changed now, but it was the subscriptions for the magazine. Right. Okay. Um and yeah, just I was the main designer of the magazine that was there. But there was a London office where they also have a radio station, so the studios were up there and uh a ton more people who were doing the you know, raising money, the radio presenters, people writing articles, and uh and they also had like a a lifeline thing for people who, you know, that was open all the time, they could ban up and stuff like that. So and I got to go up there you know, a couple of times a month, once or twice a month, and uh and it was three days a week, which was perfect because um it meant I could do two days of freelance, start doing sort of bit of my freelance work and I I I got a year so I did three days for them, I got a um a day where I was working for a couple of ladies who were d designers who are designers at my church and they took me on for a year which was really handy to see how they worked because just being a smaller um design outfit um and then I had one day where I was filling out with sort of trying to get work from other clients. Yeah um and I stayed there for seven years um and and that enabled me to build up uh a few companies that could help um when I wanted to go freelance I wasn't jumping from no days to five days I'd already had two days it was going from there two days to five days and and yeah so and this is where it sort of you know I made the decision yeah I'm gonna go freel freelance but it just so happened that the day I went freelance was the day that my son was born I already had a daughter uh my daughter Evie she was um three years older than my son Zach he was born on the day my last day of work so what happened that happened on that day was like we woke up my wife said uh I'm having contractions let's get ready um uh they subdued for a bit um she said we'll go off to work because I only work in like five minutes yeah just around the corner she goes go to work I'll phone you if if if if um I need you and so I did the whole day's work got the magazine finished sent to the printers literally five o'clock she phoned me better go out to the hospital and two hours literally two hours later he was born yeah so uh yeah so it was it was you know if I'd moved house I could have done the three most stressful things moving job that's the combo having a baby and moving so and but that was a really turning point what not just for the fact that I was went off and did freelance work I d I don't know why I choose there's never a if you want to go freelance there's never a right time yeah having two children one that's just been born yeah so my wife is off on maternity leave and then you decide to jump onto the freelance I could have chosen better times but yeah yeah it seems to have worked out yeah and I think I I gave myself like a buffer of three months worth of pay I'd saved up over that like seven years so that if I had no work we could be covered and we wasn't like stressing out trying to yeah you know us trying to look after baby and stuff like that and so but what came out of that also was and the reason why I'm now doing what I'm doing with the lettering is because uh it's downtown Abbey isn't abbey it's down to Downton Abbey so Downton Abbey which is the period drama set um in I don't even know anything about it is it the 20s it's something like that I think it moves every year doesn't it probably that's finished now isn't it uh I don't know if it's all finished I can't remember but I know there's never seen it they all die I know there's a lot of fans in the UK and also in like America and other countries as well um but I I'm just not a period drama fan my wife is and that was her viewing choice so in the evenings when she fed my son uh she would have half an hour 45 minutes and that was her her programme that she would watch um uh every night and um yeah last time when it was my daughter it was a friend series and so I kept popping in on that because I like that um but this time I was like okay I'm not interested in that what I'm gonna might do with my time I didn't want to go back on the computer because I was on it all day so for for some reason I chose to do Cligfee because it had letters in it and I sometimes typed the letters on the computer. There was like a vague you know connection and so I got you know like everyone does they just go on Google and go I want to learn Cligfee and the first thing to come up was uh the dummies guy Click fee for dummies yeah which was probably you know about right on my level and I so I ordered that off Amazon got the recommending pens it was only like it cost me like ten pounds to start you know pens and a bit of paper and I got obsessed with it I literally did it every night for like half an hour an hour and even if we'd gone out for an evening it would come back and I'd have to do whatever letter I was practicing. Yeah obsessive and I I sort of kept that up for about six months just constantly writing letters. I I absolutely loved it because it was really old school so dipping a pen in some ink and then drawing a letter dipping I'd say you have to have quite a lot of patience for it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And and yeah I just really loved it because you know I was as I was going people would look over my shoulder if they were rounds and just uh you know oh I wish I could write like that. Yeah it's just and it's uh you know when you have a craft whether it's sewing whether it's painting you know any of these you know it's it's just very rewarding to be able to do something uh and um you know create for me you know clearly means beautiful writing it was it was great because I've never because just designing stuff on the computer I I was like never felt that as a sort of a piece of art yeah whereas now I was doing something off the you know with some tools and stuff like that and creating stuff and it was really enjoying it. And we've yeah and you we we've got some examples hopefully people still hear us while this one goes on so here we are we've got uh this one here this kind of lighthouse image let your light shine before others so kind of nice biblical yeah yeah and this so this is well they there's a sort of iPad so you're drawing on the iPad yeah so I started off really old school um and I I still sometimes do that um but I'm quite messy so uh I I have to have quite a lot of spillages um so sort of pre pre-iPads and the Apple pencil that um I would um to give context to my posts so I started I needed a way to see that I was getting better because because I was because your progress is so uh there's really it's hard to see the progress unless you look back and so I used Instagram to um catalogue my progress. Yeah so I could see that I was actually getting better even though it's small I was getting better. But what happens with me doing that was that people really enjoyed seeing the pictures but but mainly like videos of me writing and and it became a bit like all these other videos where it's satisfying to watch.
SPEAKER_01And and we've got a video actually one of your videos um I don't know if this is your most popular video it's certainly the one I hear a lot of people talk about the most so here's a video Barney did I mean you talked about dipping a pen in ink but in this video Barney doesn't dip a pen he uses something else.
SPEAKER_00So have a check out of this not using a pen, using vegetables to prove that people watch anything on the internet these days so the reason why I did that was because um people get quite stuck up with having the right tools to start whether whether that's with anything you know you know we're having the right paint brushes for you know painting um what you know whether it like you know you you do guitar that some people think oh I must have a really brilliant guitar otherwise it won't I say no just get a banana. Just get a banana and a bit of string that's where we all started um and as I was just saying that it doesn't matter what what tools you use it's just about the practice. Yeah yeah and that's but that's and that's something that you'll see sort of running through my Instagram feed where I might post a lot of my work and so I said I I shaded it with a vegetable and pee and the thing is on the internet like a vegetable on its own is not a a weird thing cliffy on its own is not a weird thing but combining two you know it people are like oh that's yeah mind bad and so people like comment after comment of just saying uh tagging their friends in and going dot dot with a carrot right as okay nice nice the carrot was the first one and then um and the one that went the most popular was a chili pepper where I injected it with ink and and wrote the word and um yeah just the people just thought you know it's just yeah like people falling over they it's that sort of it's it's not it's because the thing is with me it just happens my personality comes across as in like I can't concentrate on just doing serious stuff all the time it has to be a bit of an injection of fun yeah just to keep me from just not going crazy. And um and so yeah I did that but what came from that was um that it increased my follow account not that I was looking to do that but um and in turn I then got a I got interviewed by the BBC.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah BBC trending you're yeah BBC trending they did a they said could we come around and film yeah uh because you know you've got quite a few followers thanks to that so you've got at the moment you've got 243,000 followers on Instagram 53000 on YouTube something like that yeah which is almost I'm almost at 5300 just a little just another 52900 and so to go and I'll be there but you know um when I do that banana guitar video straight past you. But um and so obviously you get that recognition there and you've so you ended up working with particular companies as well didn't you so you've done some stuff with Adobe um an Apple you did some sort of Krispy Kreme wasn't it or or did Krispy Kreme just kind of buy one of your fonts and use it?
SPEAKER_00So um so the way I earn money through what I do is uh at the moment I I get a small portion of sponsored stuff just with the the size of the audience I have uh but a lot of it comes through I make my own fonts yeah so whether that's a hand drawn one or whether I created completely on the computer digitally but one of the ones I made um and is one of my most popular ones uh yeah crispy creme uh bought it. I think we've got it. Yeah. So this one it's um called Northern Soul where it says nutty uh Chocolata available now. Yeah and so and I um so I was like really happy they used it because they bought it you know it's not did you know they bought it or did they know who buys because I sell them on a lot a variety of stores um and you know they're more than welcome to buy it and use it. And so for me that's great because that means I can say hey look everyone that's mine a brand that's used my font you know as like sort of giving an example that they must like it. Yeah. But I tweeted about it saying look hey look what crispy crone have done not expecting anything and then they got in contact and gave me a gift card free donuts for a year.
SPEAKER_01A year's supply of donut for a year. I say yeah yeah tell us about how how many is a year's supply of donut it's one donut every month.
SPEAKER_00One donut so when they say you know donuts three donuts for a year what they mean is 12 donuts and and I think they gave me like a a a six pack as well. So a total of 18 donuts wow out of 365. I know they could they didn't have to do that so that's true that's true it was it was so it was good social media marketing because like I was like oh look what I but unfortunately there is no crispy creme like within a 30 mile radius. No that's also true. So I knew I was having to give it to a friend anyway.
SPEAKER_01It's a long way to go just to travel to Brighton to get donut isn't it really like it's an expensive donut. Yeah costs more in fuel yeah um and you worked with Speedo as well stuff with them yeah I unfortunately didn't get uh lifetime supply of donuts luckily from my wife I wonder how many if if if eighteen donuts is a year's supply of donuts I wonder how many Speedo is is for a lifetime like what's the going rate if anyone per season keep going for however many years. Yeah if anyone from speedo is watching this let us know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah and we'll take your speedoes yeah we'll have them like Paul would like a speak life speak life speedo designed maybe you could do a design speed life I don't know if if your sp your you know viewer count why go down but yeah that actually speedo was one of the first brands I I got to work with so I I didn't I I didn't intend for Calig feed to become anything in my business. As it progressed I thought oh maybe I can tag it on to some of the stuff I do um but um one of the designers from Speedo was following me on Instagram and they needed some custom lettering done they had some posters of like uh people models in in different scenarios like the fitness uh for Olympic for like just general you know beachware and they wanted laser words written round the people um in different styles and and uh yeah he got in contact with me and I I did that and it was really uh it was great to not that having doing brand stuff is like you know the pinnacle of success but it was just nice to yeah yeah to work with a brand I knew about um um and it and it felt like you know I was doing local stuff as a general designer but as soon as I niche down into this one area of expertise it opened it up to a much bigger um audience because um the person that got me the job um doing that custom lettering for speedo they had a design department they just didn't have anyone that specialised in what I did yeah okay so uh it definitely sort of boosted my business uh niching down I don't know if I can't say that it's gonna work with every every um um talent or whatever you have um but seemed to work well for for my business which was a real blessing for that and then so we kind of got a sense of what you do and and the scale it's on as well because obviously I mean it's a lot of followers and you're working with some big companies and you know being in that kind of world a little bit how how are you able to witness to your faith through what you do um so um so going back to my Instagram I post regularly I post try and post uh Monday to Friday sometimes doesn't work that way if I'm out all day and I just don't have the opportunity to do it but majority of the time it is Monday to Friday that became my priority but obviously I needed content to fill you know you have to I have to design something whether me writing a word or putting together like a quote or a Bible verse and so uh not everything is Bible related um but I try and make sure that um even if it's a secular quote it doesn't contradict my uh my faith anyway. You know it's it either compliments it or is in line um I don't shy away from the fact that I'm I'm a Christian and that I this is who I am.
SPEAKER_01And and you some of your content I mean people can still hear us I think while this is going on I think when I talked about to you about this I said in some way your witness online is both overt and not particularly overt so i it's overt I mean here you're you're doing a design where you're writing on a helmet and you're doing helmet of salvation and you do lots of kind of Bible verses and things like that. Yeah. In a sense that's quite in people's faces because it's here's a here's a bit of scripture but in another sense you know you're not preaching to people. No but obviously there is that kind of unashamedness if that's a word.
SPEAKER_00Yeah so I yeah because I'm not ashamed to yeah to use scripture in what I do um obviously a bit of a pun in there as well because that's like a crash helmet always good see a subtle one though but um it's actually a helmet. It is yeah it saves your life hopefully um uh oh you haven't got another yeah so um as well there I yeah the post where I oh I you know use scripture this is you know love your enemies I try to um I also try make sure I prioritise the description goes with it rather than just placing a Bible verse because you can the thing I learned I did I did a course a couple of years ago where where it talks about you know actually the context of where the Bible per Bible verse comes from is very important. Yeah because you can can use some Bible verses as standalone stuff and justify a lot of different things which is not very helpful for other people viewing it. So I always try and if I'm using scripture that I like ref you know put a context of why I'm using that bit of scripture maybe where it's from or the looking it around that passage or whatever it may be.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But then I also try and give an example why um I'm using it. So the love that previous one was love love your enemies I wrote about that um how's that how's that work in my life? So for me for me because I do you know I I feel like you know part of my life is online is that when I get uh people like negative comments or hurtful comments how do I react to that? You know obviously I'm a human I I have feelings and so if I get a feel comment it's is hard and all you want to do is read Tel A or you know put you know get one up on the but I what I find helpful is if um you know the knowing that there's a reason behind that behaviour.
SPEAKER_01And I'm just thinking here in this because we've got a a bit up on the screen I'm just thinking those who might be listening later and can't see it, I just read this comment you've put with your kind of love your enemies verse. I never find it easy to love my enemies if someone leaves a hurtful comment on my feed it plays on my mind and I try to think of some clever response to put them in their place. But then I stop and think of what Jesus said love your enemies and pray for those who persecute. I either don't respond or leave a helpful, not harmful comment back. There's always a reason behind the behaviour whether that person is hurting, lonely, jealous or afraid I'm not in a position to make them feel worse. A small act of love can sometimes turn a person's day or even life around. So I can see how that you know actually you've got the scriptures there and stuff and but you're also kind of like you say it's not into a vacuum.
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_01You're not just throwing it out there and leaving it for people to do what they want with you're actually giving some context. So there is a witness there and I mean I know when we chatted about it the other day you said oh I don't think anyone's ever become a Christian through just like Oh you know I can't dismiss that you know there might be one percent who saw like the John 316 at a football game. Well but that's the thing so I mean I I heard a story of a girl who bought a lollipop and and on the stick it said I don't know where these came from but it was on the stick it said for God so loved the world that and then it was cut off like and she and she saw this and she said and she just thought well that what? Yeah she wanted to find out she wanted to know and she went and found out like where does this verse come from and she went and found out and you know that God so loved the world he gave his only son and she became a Christian off the back of that and so I mean yeah if someone could become a Christian off the back of half a Bible verse you know who knows I yeah I suppose I've never met anyone who said I saw uh a Bible verse yeah online and I became Christian.
SPEAKER_00Yeah I think for for me in the way I see how things work in my life you know and this is how uh and definitely the way like me and my wife minister to others is through relationships so and consistent relationships. And that is the same online. It's if I'm consistent in what I do and the message I put out, that may be more helpful to someone else viewing my content.
SPEAKER_01And and this is where I think like, you know, because obviously most people are watching this, uh or ever watch it, are probably not gonna be letterers or graphic designers or in that vein. But actually, and and many of us are never gonna have a a huge internet presence. But uh but whether we we're online or at work, I think you know there's stuff we can learn from you know that could you know I've I asked you a bit about um you know what are the principles behind how you witness online, and I think some of it applies to us, well it applies to all of us who are online, but it can apply in the workplace as well. So I mean you talk you talk you know we've talked before a bit about having integrity in what you do, um uh and that that applies across, you know, so you you've mentioned that in how you respond to criticism and stuff, yeah. Um, but that applies for all of us, you know, whether we're just on Facebook or Twitter or whether we're in the workplace, yeah. Um, how we respond to or how we treat the people we're engaging with over a counter or whether it's through a lens or whatever.
SPEAKER_00And it's not just how we treat that person, because it you know, if we treat that person badly, it's other people viewing that action as well, and that affects other people around it.
SPEAKER_01I don't want to say I'm perfect or I no no of course um but it's but it's it's the phrase I heard I've heard a few times is that you know the world doesn't the world doesn't read the Bible, the world reads Christians.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so like if people know you're a Christian, whether you're you know posting whether you've got a 243,000 or whatever Instagram following, or whether you've got a few hundred friends on Facebook, people are looking at you and they are reading you as their text for what Christians are like and as a witness.
SPEAKER_00We're much more on display than we used to.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, you know, because just our Facebook feed, personal Facebook feed to other friends, um, what the content we post, uh how we interact in the comments is a major thing because I see some stuff going on that you know um is not helpful how people react and stuff like that. And yeah, and and so it's just and it's not like a day-to-day thing, it's not big things, it's day-to-day small little actions that really and it's how people you know, it's all about experience, I suppose, how they experience you is how they experience their you know, how they think Jesus must be. So if they exp have a bad experience with you, they must think all they love Jesus so and they want to be like Jesus, is that how he is? Yeah. And so you know I suppose none of us are perfect, but it's it's it's trying our hardest to to know that our actions have uh you know, like using a sort of ripple analogy, that those small actions can rip out to such a big area. And I suppose for me Positively and negatively as well. Yeah, and I suppose the bigger my audience is the more I have to be aware or I I have to be aware of that as a small audience or as a bigger audience because actually I'm I have a lot more people viewing in uh and so that means there's a lot more people viewing my actions.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um and I th I think that that and that that applies, isn't it, for all of us, like you know, say whether if we're using Facebook or something, it y it's just being it's displaying that integrity of character we witness through what we do on Facebook or online as well as in the workplace or at school or wherever it is. Um but yeah, like you say, knowing that it can have such an effect, yeah, you know, in some sense you have to be quite careful about it and thoughtful. And I know there's you know, lots of people you often hear people say, Oh well, you know, I c it's my my Facebook feed, I can post what I like, yeah, you know, and of course in in the sense, yeah, of course you can post what you like, but it's you know, not every you can post what you like, not everything is helpful, you know, everything is permissible.
SPEAKER_00But I what I find, and I know you find as well, is is that when you peep meet like a person on Facebook is completely different from what they're like in real life, yeah. In terms of sometimes oh, sometimes people actually like um you know, there's no they're exactly as they are in person, yeah. But some people like hide behind that, you know, the sort of social facade of you know, they can do what they want, but then when you actually speak to them in person, they're like completely different.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think you know, my aim as a Christian, I mean, online, whether it's with just people who are friends on Facebook or whether it's you know when we're doing like speak life stuff, my hope would be that when I meet people, you know, if we go, you know, and I go to places and preach or whatever, yeah, people would say wouldn't say, Oh, he's so different compared to how he is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, much different, you know, not you know, obviously there's that physical thing where you meet someone taller than they were on the but you'd hope that they'd say, Oh, yeah, that they're there's no what you're looking for is like when they meet you, you're exactly the same as what they thought they were gonna meet. Yeah, you know, from from what you see as kind of what you don't want to I want my personality and my faith and my you know, I don't want you know, and that's why I find that I post a lot of stuff that's process, so um you know, if I muck up or if I make an error, yeah. I was trying to draw on a hat like a few months ago, and um like a baseball hat was just black hat, and it all went wrong, like it went on that and just spilled over it. Yeah, it was supposed to say flow, and it said like blue, and but I posted it anyway, and and people were so thankful because you know when they see someone who's got some um like flaws, flawed character, it it enables them to connect, yeah and it and just generally not looking at the Christian spectrum, but just generally as a way because you know we build up ordinances for a business is being like honest and real. People connect with you know, they don't connect with a faceless brand, they connect with something that resonates with them, um, and so you know, I show things that don't go right, I show um the beginning, the middle, and the end, um, so that people can show that it's not just you know, it's quite hard when someone just posts perfect off of perfect work, an unattainable and that's not just work though, is it?
SPEAKER_01Because it just you know, you think of people who've who take however many selfies to get the perfect selfie, and yeah, or they they they don't post about all the terrible stuff that's happening. Yeah. You know, it's all about you know the the almost the perfect life that people want to paint. Yeah, and I think as Christians we're in danger sometimes of falling into that trap of you know how we use social media that we can just paint a picture that's not realistic. And I mean there's I think there's a fine line for Christians in in how much you share and don't share in terms of you know, because because nobody likes the oversharer on Facebook who like you know everything, you know, it's almost attention-seeking kind of everything's so terrible at the moment, but you know, equally there's a place for being open and honest. Um it's hard to strike a balance, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Um and I I think there's something that you know because we all like those before and after photos, don't we? Oh yeah. I know a lot of them photoshopped, but uh but like I I don't want anyone to come to my feed and me to alienate them, not just like um uh you're not good enough in terms of being a Christian or in the skills of learning calligraphy and stuff like that. And I want to show them I had no experience when I started, yeah, you know, and my handwriting is still poor, um, but I like to show regularly that this is what it was like at the beginning, this is what it's like now. I just put in the hard work and the practice. Yeah. You can do that too. I don't want people to come and just be, oh, this is unobtainable, you know. Um I I I need them to I want them to feel like yeah, I can do this. Yeah. And and and part of what I do is teaching, you know, YouTube is all about the teaching. Uh I often do some of the posts where it's showing people how to do maybe a certain letter, you know, that they're struggling with. Um I try obviously at this level I get a lot more um messages, but I try and respond to people, try and be helpful, uh and you know, help them out. Um and I get a lot of people who who who have been helped, you know, they're a Christian and they're a designer, and seeing what I'm doing um has helped them as well, or maybe inspired them, uh, which is really helpful for me knowing that they've seen that. Because I I need I suppose sometimes I can feel like I'm just putting stuff out there into an empty box.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um and say sometimes it's nice to get feedback. And and even if it's like you know, I always appreciate feedback, always good or bad, and whether it you know, whether it's about you know how I'm how I'm living, you know, I'm always appreciative of having that accountability with other people as well that can challenge me. You know, I try, I I I there's certain things like I don't swear in any of my posts or letter any swear words.
SPEAKER_01Um nothing that you wouldn't do any writing that was just contradictory with anything you believed in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't want them to look at it and go, well, hang on a minute, I thought he doesn't add up there. I thought he said he followed Jesus and and yeah. So I I try and make it as clear as possible. Um some of my posts are just secular, some of them are just you know uh uh me talking a lot of it's to talk about practice, um, because m you know the my Instagram feed is people who um either love youing uh lettering and click fee or they want to learn from me. Um so that is the sort of primary thing.
SPEAKER_01But and we're we're kind of running out of time a little bit, and so we're not gonna have a huge amount of time to talk about like thirsty, I mean, and and kind of what it is. I mean, thirsty, I mean, especially very briefly, you and I are on this team, which is a cafe church, kind of Friday nights or every other Friday night, very informal thing. But what I'd love to just chat about very briefly is um you're able to use those gifts that you've got to actually serve in the church as well. So because I think there's a lot of people who maybe kind of think I've got nothing to give, no way to serve. And it would be I suppose it would be easy to kind of look and think, well, I just I just do letters, how on earth can I Yeah, because like the graphic design stuff, yeah, I could do the church newsletter or uh flyers for it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's like all how how how But you have used it to kind of serve at thirsty, and I mean I've got an example here actually on the screen. So that was the thirsty flyer you did, you know, because we have a term card or a yearly kind of programme card, don't we? Of the all the dates, and you've kind of done that there um for us. Um and I mean you you've done a lot of work for the church on that kind of front, haven't you? Yeah, and it's a real blessing to be able to um do that sort of thing and be used in that in that way, you know, um and I th I you know, because I think um church uh can't help but be a brand in itself and need you know, people are very visual, you know, why Instagram's so popular because it's visual and for people like me I just work in a lot more with images than I do with words in terms of you know reading rather than viewing images rather than reading words, mm-hmm and so it's it's you know the how sometimes the church is displayed in terms of what it looks like, in terms of branding and stuff like that, is sometimes actually quite important because people you know and I think whether we as Christians like the idea of church being a brand, I mean that might kind of we might hear that and go, oh we don't like that, but in a sense, you to the world there is church, and church is this brand, and they you know I always say when people think of church in their head, they're probably immediately thinking kind of vicoratively you know, pews look quiet, yeah. Most people the only thing they see of church is gonna be royal weddings, yeah, you know, that kind of cathedral-esque you know, all dressed up in a very alien. And I mean, and I know actually we talked about how you know you did one of the designs for our posters, and there was a guy who saw it and like literally with no other connection was it, I think. Yeah. Just saw this design and he was like, Oh, that looks pretty good. Maybe I'll go to church. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I was like, you know, I'm I'm I'm um 39, that's the first time that's ever happened. Yeah, yeah. And I suppose that goes back to that one percent where there you go. But it it it's you know, that was really encouraging for me because it's like you feel like um as a creative, you feel like, well, how do I help the church? Because you know, there's a list of things we teachers, evangelists, um, you know, the prayer ministry, stuff like that. Calligraphers. There is design in the old testament, yeah, with the design of the uh um the tents and stuff. The scribes. The scribes, yeah. Cool, they would have had a lot of work to do. Um and so it's nice to be able to be used in that way and know that you know we've all been given different gifts, um, but just because it's not listed somewhere doesn't mean you can't be used, you know. Where you know, like people who do the flowers in church, this there's people in there that love flowers and it really helps them to maybe worship, to connect with God, you know, um just it's loads of different things that really help you know, even down to like people who like coffee. Yeah, you serve good coffee.
SPEAKER_01And they feel like I and I think that's the thing, isn't it? So so I think what I want to say to people out there who've got different gifts is that it might be the case that they look at their church and they go, Well, there's nowhere for me, you know, that what other church currently does, they say, Well, I can't serve here with this gift. And it may well be just taking your gift and saying, I have this gift and could I use it for something? Yeah. You know, because you know, I mean, I think like so for years and years at at All Saints we had our Bible, uh our Bible verse for the year, kind of church verse for the year each year. And um and it's only really in the last couple of years, isn't it? I think since you've been doing the some more work for us, that you've you've actually done a nice design of the verse and stuff, and um you know, whereas before it was just a kind of print it on a piece of paper.
SPEAKER_00I suppose for me I wanted to produce something that people would want to put on their fridge, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Or put it on and and it's on big posters as well, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00You know, so um yeah, I and and that helps people to remember the verse and remembers, you know, because also this stuff that goes round it, you know, when they when they're when there is a burst of the year and stuff like that. So it helps them to remind it and they might put it in a more prominent pace and then someone comes around and they ask questions about it.
SPEAKER_01You just so um so everyone I think you know the g the thing is that everyone has something they can use for their, you know, what is it, the the the spirit gives their gifts for the common good, you know. Yeah. Um yeah. Um we're we're kind of run out of time, um but Bon, it's been really good to chat to you. Um I don't know if we've had any questions. I did see one question earlier actually on uh from Glenn. Um I'll tell you what, actually, so so Glenn has asked two questions. But do you ever get called Fonsey? No, that's quite cool. Um it says, we know this from a theological point of view, but from a visual point of view, why is the cross such a compelling brand? So from a theological So we know they're putting you on the spot there. Um so we know theologically why the cross is you know, people are so drawn to the cross. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But is there do you is there anything about is there something about the cross itself as a visual thing that from a design point of view is there I suppose it's recognized it's like you know, you go in the other world, Nike Coca-Cola McDonald's is universally You know the M's, you know the ticks. You know, like even my children, young children, just like on a sign on a motorway, just the M's. Oh McDonald's is there. Yeah Yeah and I think it's just certain things I don't know visually why it it works very well, but it you know certain things stand test of time, and the cross is something that does you know is instantly recognisable um maybe because it's so simple. Um a lot of the things that are the most simple are work so well as a visual reminder.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um I think it just because it means so much to so many people, it's become a an iconic um it's it's a it's a brand logo in in many ways, I suppose. You know, it's a to use a kind of worldly way of looking at it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a worldly way of it, because you know, and it's a reason why people use it, you know, have it round their neck in terms of like, you know, in the even if they're not religious, even though there are lots of people who would use that image as well. And y you know, without asking, you don't know why why do you wear a massive crucifix even though you don't you have nothing you have no real connection to it. Yeah, so and that comes from like you know, why do you wear a Nike t-shirt? You know, are you a Nike follower? And I suppose it is, but then sometimes you aren't because you're just like is it wearing a massive brand or why you're wearing the Ramones t-shirt.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I don't even know who they are, that could be so there's that element, but yeah, yeah. Well there you go. Maybe there's maybe there's scope to delve into why the cross is so visually compelling, who knows? Um we've kind of we have kind of run out of time, but Bon, thank you for thanks for chatting. Thank you for sharing a bit about your life and what you do, and I think it's really encouraging for us to hear how you're being a witness in front of you know, in fact, you've probably got more followers there than some Christian leaders have got on Twitter, you know, so um not to put any pressure on you there. No and but you know, there there's a great witness there, and it's an example to us as Christians, all of us, whether on social media being a witness through our integrity, but whether we're uh but also in the workplace, how we react to to criticism and comments and and respond there, that it's about that that witness of integrity there. So thank you for sharing that with us.
SPEAKER_00Um actually one leaping thing is that yeah, I'm uh I'm like that weird mix of introvert and extrovert, more on the introvert side. So I'm not as confident as like you are in terms of just speaking to someone and you know having a like a sermon off the cuff, or you know. So for me, this suits my personality more, and it might be some people actually uh living your you know doing your evangelism work online is is a more comf is an easier way of you you sharing your faith um and and and helping others because I yeah for me it's I find it hard to start a conversation in terms of that way. Uh I'm happy if someone asks me and I I can do it, but you know, just going randomly in cold speaking to someone is much harder. Um so yeah, if that's something that you know that I think there's like new avenues of ways of sharing the message that technology and the internet are bringing to know that you know if you're not good in one area you can be in another. Absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I mean maybe in some ways that's partly what in some ways that's what we want to do at Speak Life as well, that we've in the last year we've changed the focus much more to online stuff.
SPEAKER_00And and while we're talking, you know, we're prepping is that if you look at how people interact nowadays, they're all looking at the phone. The attention is down lies down on the phone. If we like it or not.
SPEAKER_01You've got to work with what you're given. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Alright, we are we are gonna have to knock it on the head there. Barnes, thank you so much for joining us. Um thank you everyone for watching. Um, and um do tune in again next week. I'm gonna be speaking to you, I think it's Dave next week. This is kind of slightly unsure who which two one of two I'm getting. Um, but I think next week's gonna be Dave. Um I'm gonna be chatting to him uh him a bit about his faith, how he became a Christian, and a bit about some kind of difficult times in his life um in his family. So do tune in for that. Um until then, we hope you have a really good week. Um uh stay safe, share our material, um, and we'll uh we'll see you again next week. Thanks very much. Bye.