The Speak Live Podcast, sharing Jesus in everyday life. Well, hello everybody, and welcome to the live cast. Although, uh, I hope you can hear me. Now an aeroplane is now flying over my head to um basically drown me out. Um hopefully you can hear what's going on at least a little bit. Um if you are listening on the podcast on Friday, or even if you're watching right now, um, you may be thinking, well, hang on a minute, this is not uh what I'm used to, this is not speak life. Uh you appear to be sitting in a garden, and we are. I am sitting in my garden in Crobra, um, and it's uh a very nice warm day. Um, so welcome uh to all of you. If you weren't watching uh or listening in last week um and you're wondering what is going on, Glenn is away on sabbatical um for um a good number of weeks now, and so instead of our normal live cast, we're still gonna be live every Tuesday, because here we are, uh, but I'm gonna be speaking to a different person each week, we're gonna be doing some interviews, and uh that's why I'm really pleased to be able to introduce you to Faye. Hi, Faye, you're up?
SPEAKER_01Hi, Paul. Yeah, I'm fine, thank you. Nervous.
SPEAKER_00Don't be nervous, don't you be nervous about it, don't worry at all, don't worry at all. Um I'm gonna be talking to Faye in a moment. I'm gonna be interviewing her about um her life and kind of coming to Faith and how Jesus has worked in her life. Um just to say that um if you're on Facebook right now, you're watching live, and you want to ask questions, feel free to type stuff in the uh the comment box. I will do my best to um kind of see what's going on. It may be that I'll save questions till near the end, um, but if there are some that pop up part way through that um look good, uh I might jump in with those straight away. Already a few people commenting, by the way. Say hello to a few people. Oh look, you have some people watching in, so um uh Lindsay. Lindsay Edwards. Hey Lindsay, so we know Lindsay, so that's great. So we'll we'll say hello. Good. Great, okay. So, Faye, um just tell us a bit about yourself, first of all. Who are you? Who is Faye Summers?
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm Faye Summers. I'm married to Greg Summers, and we have three wonderful children and six fabulous grandchildren. Greg is the Verdura All Saints Church, and we are um well very, very um committed Christians, members of All Saints, and we love it. It's our church family, and yeah, that's where we are.
SPEAKER_00Great. Yeah, and and so Faye and I, we've known each other now for probably coming on nine years, is it? Yeah, since when I worked at the church, and so I worked with Faye's husband, Greg, um, for a a good eight years of that, and that was great fun. So, Faye, I mean some of you some people might have already seen on the kind of blurb about this, we're talking about finding Christ kind of growing up in an abusive family.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um so you know, your story does kind of go back really to when you were a child. So tell us a bit about your family and what family life was like for you when you were growing up.
SPEAKER_01Okay, well, I was born in Yorkshire. Um my mum and dad, um, they were well, they should never have had children. My mum didn't have a a maternal bone in her body, and my dad was just a bully and a and a violent man. And so I have uh there's five of us. I have I had three brothers and um and a sister. And life was very hard because my dad was um a villain, he was a professional boxer, but then um because of his fighting outside of the ring was um was not allowed to fight uh professionally anymore and he was in and out of prison and so we lived in squats because when he went mum didn't have any money, when he went to prison didn't have any money and uh so we were in and out of different homes and um she left us with our grandparents and she yeah, she was just not a good mum and um and when dad was home it was just violence because he would b just batter us and batter mum and it was a scary place. Uh but then I knew no different. I just assumed that's what everybody's house was like, what everybody's home was like and everybody's dad. Um he went to prison when I I mean he was in and out of prison all the time. And um we moved from Yorkshire down to Sussex when I was eight. And it was then that my dad um he became a he was a burglar, he was he used to take me I was so skinny and little, he used to take me burgling with him, and if you don't ever leave your little skylight windows open, because he used to push me through those and I would open the the uh main window and open the you know, open the door and let him in. And uh so that that's what he did. And then um he started abusing me sexually uh at that age as well. And it was just terrifying, it was a terrifying time. And I I remember telling my mum when I was I must have been about ten, he always told me never to tell anyone. And I m I told my mum when I was ten, and my mum told me not to tell anybody else. Um because he was uh he was an adulterer, he was always going off with other women. And I guess I mean as an adult I can think this, she just thought, well he's not gonna leave e he's not leaving her for me and so it was easier for her to have him abusing me than going off with some other woman. So that's that was another, you know, another strand of abuse that was just dreadful. And she used to blackmail me to do stuff if I she would ask me to do the laundry or do you know wash up or whatever. And if I didn't do it immediately, she she would say, Well, in that case, you're gonna stay at home with your dad tonight on your own. I I'm going out, you know. So she she used it against me, which was a hot when I think as a mother but then like I said, she hadn't got a maternal bone in her body. And so that was that was hateful.
SPEAKER_00And give us some idea of some of the other things you were exposed to. So I know you talked about kind of weapons in the house and things like that as well.
SPEAKER_01My dad would I mean he was a very strange man because he was generous, he was very generous, and if he had money he would give it away, and s and s and he would come home with all sorts of odd things for the boys. I mean he used to make the boys box, and I would have to stand in the middle of the room and he would uh tell them to give me a left cross or an uppercut, and I would have to be the punch bag. And they didn't want to do it, my brothers didn't want to do it, but they they had to, because if if they didn't hit me, he would hit them. And so it was a it was horrible. Um and Dad had uh s ball terriers, Staffy Bull Terriers, which were lovely dogs, but Dad would have them fighting, and quite often we would have a dog fight in our in our front room, and his mates would come and they'd put money on it and all that, and so there was blood and guts all over our living room, and my mum was not a housewife at all. And uh so she would go to a jumble. If there was blood on muck and revolting us on the carpet, she didn't think to clean it or hoover. She would just go to a jumble cell and get another carpet and put it on top, because that would be underlay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so I said we're all going to be hunchbacks at this rate, we just keep hanging away Up against the ceiling. Yeah, and she wouldn't cut the carpet either. She would it would lap up the skirting boards and ah for some reason my dad the the uh coal bunker was uh below uh outside the back door by the um kitchen uh it window and uh it really was cold. So my dad knocked a hole through the under the sink into the back of the coal bunker to so that we could get coal out. You'd go into the kitchen under the sink to get the coal. I mean and um so and we lived near fields, so in the winter all these mice would come in and they would have the run of the house. This this carpet edging up all the rooms was a lovely run for all the mice. And um and the dog would be going crackers trying to catch these mice. So I mean it was it it was uh you know, when I think back to it, and when I think when I became a mum and wanted my children to have the very best and give them a loving home, when I think back, I think this just seems unreal what we lived with. And if when my dad was in prison um and there was no there was no coal and we just smash up the furniture and burn the furniture and burn shoes and burn anything. We do you know, it was a really hard it was hard, it was hard. And really, I suppose it was very hard for my mum. Um you know, she didn't have an easy time. Um but she she was a very selfish woman. It was all about her. Um nothing she used to have a riding crop by the fire, and she used to thrash us with this riding crop, and she once beat my brother John, whipped him so badly. He was about seven. So badly with this thing. He couldn't go to school uh because she knew he she'd be in big trouble and she kept him off. He had he had wheels all over him. We thought we had to stop her because I thought she was gonna kill him. And uh so she was of she was, you know, th they should like I say, they should never have been allowed within a hundred metres of children, really.
SPEAKER_00And and so there were so so how many children were there at that point?
SPEAKER_01There were four up to that point, was there three brothers and me.
SPEAKER_00And could and then you had a a younger sister.
SPEAKER_01When I was thirteen.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um and just tell us a bit about kind of what your role was then with your younger sister.
SPEAKER_01Well, Dad had gone to prison just after Kayla was born, I think. It was that was the last time you went to prison. And um my sister was just born and my mum didn't she didn't like kids, and so here she had this baby, and she was Kayla was beautiful, she was this lovely little thing. And um she was given to me. And I had her in my bedroom, and I was the one that got up and fed her. I was thirteen. I was thirteen, I'd change her. She called me when she started walking, she thought I was her mum. She called me mummy. I didn't go to school much after she was born, 'cause I looked after her. And um yeah, it it was an odd. But I loved it because she loved me. Kayla loved me, and we weren't loved. We were we we were very tight. My brothers, they were mad. I just adore the bones of 'em. They were mad. And my dad, as I said one time, my dad came home with all these guns, and he gave us all a gun, air rifles. Phil had a 2-2, actually. Uh his was a 2-2, and so it had little bullets, little tiny bullets. And um he decided he wanted to be a bank robber, and so he said he was going to saw have a sawn off shotgun. So he saw this thing and came out and he'd saw the handle off. He said, You idiot, it's the other end you saw off. So then he saw it off, sawed the barrel off, and then he couldn't break it, he couldn't open it. So he put a six-inch needle, um, six-inch nail in there and a six-inch nail, broke it, but he'd already put the bullet in. Right. And when he and took the uh the uh trigger guard off, and when he let go to close it, he caught the trigger and shot his finger off. And it was hanging off, and with it mad. And I've got uh holes, well not holes, but little scars all around my ankles, where they used to make me dance shooting at me. But that was that was fun actually. That was fun. We used to play down the fields and have these guns each and shoot each other.
SPEAKER_00And and I I remember when talking to you about this, you said um in a sense you didn't know this was out of the norm.
SPEAKER_01No no other kids were allowed to play with us. I didn't know that. We were the convicts' kids, so nobody was allowed to play with us, nobody ever came home. But you'd be embarrassed Well, I don't know if I would have been embarrassed, it's just home, it was just a you know, a mess. No m yeah. So yeah, that was just norm for us.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So life is life is pretty pretty awful. Abusive father, a mum who's not particularly interested or maternal, looking after you know, at the age of thirteen, looking after your younger sister having and you yourself having been out stealing and Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01We were all excellent shoplifters. Yeah. Mummy used to say to me, go down the shop and get some bacon. She never ever gave me any money. And I just have to go and nick a bucket of bacon.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, oh my goodness. It's it seems unbelievable when you think about it.
SPEAKER_01I w I found the other day it did make it made me laugh in a way. I remember doing my Christmas shopping in Haywards Heath, and there was Woolworths there, and I went in to do my Christmas shopping and with no money. And um and so I got my granny and my mum a little bracelet. And I I nicked them, and um I found this bracelet when my granny died, she'd kept it, and when I looked at it, it was the Ten Commandments on a little bracelet. I still have it actually. And I thought, well Lord, you know, I mean, honestly, I nicked it, and it's on the little brace, little charm bracelet with all the Ten Commandments hanging on. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00So there's there's all this kind of horror, and it is a horror story, went like kind of going on in your life. Um and then at I I'm not sure how old you were at the time, that your dad went to prison and that's when things kind of changed. So tell us a bit about what happened there.
SPEAKER_01Well, dad went to prison and we were he had got so violent, really, if I was beating the boys up. He nearly killed my brother Kenny one time, and my mum, actually, first time I ever seen a bimba turtle, went out and hit him up the side of the head with a spade because he was trying to drown Kenny in a barrel. And he got his head in his barrel, and my mum had to hit him with his spade to get him off. And um he just was the boys were growing up and he was just hateful to them. Hateful. And um so we'd said to Mum when he went to prison, please don't have him back. And so she and she'd had enough because he was battering her as well, and um so she said she wasn't gonna have so thrilled, oh that's fabulous news. He's not coming back. And then this little old lady came to our door and she was a JW.
SPEAKER_00And um my mum was someone soaring in the background, it's just really helpful. I mean, this couldn't be going any better, Fanny, and the the internet keeps dropping, and then there's men soaring in the background. The JW's will be I'll do in a minute.
SPEAKER_01No, no, it's just Well we'll plod on. Um yes, this lady came and said, you know, mum, could she have a drink? And so mum let her come in, and then that was it. She just came back every week and was mum was telling her that she wasn't going to have my dad back, and she said, Oh no, you're unmarried. You can't you can't do this. You're you're before God, you can't do this. You've got to have him back and give him another chance. I wanted to punch that old lady. I did. What do you know, you silly old woman? Lee get out, you know, they're really cross. We were all cross with this old lady. And um and she but she was persistent, and she came back. So in the end, my mum had said, I think I will give him another chance. And we just thought, Oh, I can't bear it. Um and in in prison it was Christmas time, and um Dad had the the the screw came into the cell and said, Did anybody want to go down to to chapel? And dad said if he went to church it would fall on him. And um so he stayed in his cell. And uh they the his cellmate went, and uh Dad said that while he was in his cell, he heard what he subsequently found out to be the 23rd Psalm, and he just found himself on his knees and just sobbing and asking God's forgiveness. And um he just felt that God was real it was a very he said it was a very incredible moment. This singing of the 23rd Psalm was just beautiful. So when his cellmate came back, he said to him, What was that song you were singing? And he told him the words, and his cellmate said, We didn't sing that. We never sang that. And he said, But it is in the Bible, and he was on cleaning duty, this his cellmate, and so he said, I um so dad said, Well, can you get me a Bible, nick me a Bible from the chapel? So he said he would. And so Dad then had this Bible and he just devoured this Bible and he he wrote to Mum and said, Uh uh you know, she'd sent him a letter saying she didn't want him back, and he had then agreed to kill somebody. Somebody in prison had asked him if he would kill somebody, and he thought, Well, I've got no family, got no responsibilities, no ties, I can do it. And really go into the life that he wanted to be into all the time. And so he had to go back to this chap because I couldn't do it, and he thought there would be uh consequences for that, but there never was. And um and so we were all just devastated that he she was having him back. And when he came home, um we were just you know, just fed up and but when he came, he was different. There was a thing about him that was different. He looked different and he acted different. He had never ever touched me in any way other than to hurt me. And um I can remember vividly standing in our kitchen in Glee Road and he put his arm on my shoulder, and I could feel my I tensed up because I was expecting him to hurt me. He used to do this thing where he'd wrap his h I had long hair, he'd wrap his hand in my hair and bang me up against the wall. I have suck of suffered with spinal problems all my life, and I'm sure that's where it's all started. But anyway, um he put his hand on my shoulder and he sort of did this matey thing where he sort of patted me, and I didn't understand it. I didn't I couldn't, you know, I was thinking what what is he gonna do? What's he doing? Um and I think he was trying to be kind, he was trying to be nice, trying to be a dad. And here I was, 14, and this was a very odd thing, very strange. And the same with my brothers. Um he was that Ken said to me, you know, we look we're gonna have to kill him. We're gonna have to kill him. This is worse than anything. He was too he was too nice now. It was very strange. And we'd always said when we we all planned to kill him, and we did all sorts of things. I used to grind up glass and and put he had a shed with knotting and all sorts of things, put it into gravy and mix it all up, put it on his dinner. My mum used to put his dinner on a saucepan and uh his he had to have his meal immediately you walked through that front door. His dinner had to be on the table. And so I mix all this stuff he never died, but he has terrible, terrible ulcers. Yeah. And um so we'd we just we'd planned then we're gonna have to kill him, we can't live with this. This is it was like living on a knife edge. We were waiting for him to explode and do something terrible. But actually, it never happened.
SPEAKER_00But he he he was I mean he was genuinely changed, it seemed when he was. He was at home.
SPEAKER_01On the Sunday he made us all walk up to church. We went into the Baptist church, my brother Phil had been up there. I don't quite know why Phil had decided to go, but anyway, he said we'll go up to the Baptist church. So we went up to Cookville Baptist Church and we all went in. Dad smoked, mum smoked, Phil smoked, everybody smoked, we all stunk of fags, but dad gave us all a polo so nobody knew. And uh we walked into church. We just must have you know this well, a thug coming off us, and um sat in, never been into church in my life, and um we sat in church, and Errol Hulse, wonderful, wonderful man, um was preaching on the prodigal son, and he said, and when the when the father saw the son afar off, he ran to meet him and he held his arm out and and he he hugged the son. And my dad, in the middle of this service, my dad just spread his hand up and said, That was me, that's how I feel, that's what God did to me. I feel like that was me. That story and we were just thinking, He's gone mental, he's definitely gone. Something really peculiar going on here. And Errol was very lovely and said, That's wonderful, it's South African, that's wonderful, brother. He said, I'll talk to you after. And but he just kept interjecting all the way through dear mental man is mental. But that was the beginning of my dad's Christian life, and he it was genuine, yeah, absolutely genuine. Our life at home changed. He did he he disciplined us. He always said he couldn't hit us when he was angry, he had to wait till he calmed down and then he would hit us. So he still hit us. But that was it was all different. It was all different.
SPEAKER_00And I I know you talked a bit about um he he would act out Bible stories and things so it's the family and Yes, he did.
SPEAKER_01He we didn't he we were in church one Sunday and Errol said that we as Christians we are in the church but we're not of the uh in the world, but not of the world. And was that was fabulous. We came home, and I those of you who are older will know, remember the rediffusion star that used to come on the tell, and it said, We bring the world into your home. My dad just looked at it and went, get that out. We're not having the world in our house, get it out. And so the telly went out, got smashed in the back garden, and the radio went, everything that brought the world into our we'd not have in that, get it out. And so in the evenings he would read Bible stories and he would axe them out, and he would I learnt so many I learnt did learn such a lot of of uh Bible verses and stories and parables, all you know, in those those times when he Would teach us as children, you know, as teenagers. And I mean he never ever, from the moment he came out of prison, he never touched me sexually again. And I waited every night, I would be so scared when I heard the but then I became I was confident that he wasn't gonna go that his life was so different that I knew that he wouldn't. Um that was something else.
SPEAKER_00And so your dad your dad was a different person.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you were kind of about 15 around this time, were you about 14 or 15? And so your dad had come to faith. And tell us a bit about your faith then. Did you kind of come to faith at that stage?
SPEAKER_01Well, no, but I could dad would say to us all, we all you all need Jesus in your lives. He's the one that transforms. He forgives the Father forgives, Jesus changes us, and the Holy Spirit fills us and enables us to live as Christians. So you've all got to ask Jesus into your life. Now what a a plunker I was because I didn't actually ask Jesus into my life. I just said I had, because I wanted, I wanted him to love me. I liked this not being um scared, I like this not being abused, I like, and he was trying to love us in his way. I could tell that, I knew that. And I liked it. I wanted to be loved in the right way, and I knew that would please him, so I said, you know, oh, I've become a vast Jesus into my life, and I've become a Christian, and I love him, and I want to serve him for the rest of my life. And uh and so he said, fantastic, you know. So I really pleased him, and then I had to go before the elders of the church and give a testimony. I made up a smashing testimony, and uh I did, you know, I made it all up because we were all liars and deceivers and thieves, and that's what we did.
SPEAKER_02Sure.
SPEAKER_01And so here I made this fabulous testimony up and got baptised and everything, and of course, you know, I thought, oh, this is wonderful, they all love me, dad loves me, mum sort of likes me, mum never liked me much anyway. And um so I thought I've pleased everybody, but then you've got to go to church and you've got to go to the prayer meeting, you've got to be really I didn't want to and uh tell me about it first, Mama. And so and my dad, because he had now come out of prison, one of the chaps in the church, a lovely man called Graham Slegg, was a buildup, and he employed dad as a as a painter and decorator, taught him a trade, and he was a wonderful, wonderful um disciple for my dad. He he discipled my dad. And um so I was I'd left home by this time. At 15, I left home and went to work and live in a school for deaf children. And my dad got the job painting it, so I wouldn't go to church, and then on the Monday morning my dad would be at the window painting, saying, Why weren't you at church? Get yourself to church. It took him two years to paint this blooming school, and ever so and I'd get to the prayer meeting, go to church, and something he was there, and so I left that school and I went to work at Great Wallstead School, and he got the job painting it.
SPEAKER_00So he's just following you to do painting jobs.
SPEAKER_01Yes, he was, and and so I in the end I left Sussex and went up to Durham.
SPEAKER_00And and so I think I'm right in saying it was when you were up there that actually uh you you came to faith because you're am I right in thinking you when you were about twenty-two or twenty-three, your brother, yeah one of your brothers, came to faith and he came to visit you. Is that right? Is he came to visit you? Yeah, yeah. So tell us what happened there about kind of that conversation and where it led.
SPEAKER_01Well, my little brother John, who is just fabulous, I love him to bits, and he had actually become a Christian, and he came up to Durham to tell me that he's become a Christian, and he said to me, Fay, Jesus is real, and he does change lives. And I said, Oh John, I think you know it's all right when you're old like them, but I want to live I want to be able to have a life. I don't want to be a boring old fart like them. I didn't want that. I did you know no no and I and he said but you've got to, you've got to you know, it's life and death. Shut up, you know, you're taking a bit far. And uh and he said, No, it's real, Jesus is real and he loves us and he died for us. And he said, um I said, Oh well John, I'll just sit on the fence and um you know, until I'm about eighty and then I'll become a Christian when I've had a life and done all the yippy doodaring that I want to do. Absolutely. And um so I said that's what I was going to sit on the fence, and he said, There isn't a fence fair, you're either saved or you're damned. Shut up, that's a bit harsh. And he said, No, that's what the Bible says, that's what God tells us. And he sent Jesus to rescue us from that. And I want you to be in heaven with me, he said. I don't want you to go to hell. I said, No, I'm not an offence. No, but there is an offence. Yeah, yeah, right. You've got promised me, he said, you'll go to church. Even if it's just once. And I was so touched that he'd come up to tell me this, and then he prayed, he sat down and prayed, and that I would go, and I thought, I've got to go for him, I've got to go once. So I was going out with Greg at this time, and um I said you know, like I need to go, I've got to go to church. I've told you John went back to Sussex, I've got to go to church just once, come with me. And so he said, Alright. Um so we went found this little Methodist church, and it honestly for all the world you'd have thought these little those little black black shapes with a little black hat, and they look like little old ladies, and that they've been kept in a cupboard and brought out on Sunday so that they all look identical little hats. And us and we snook in the back and they said the preacher got up and said today we've got to be talking about the fence. I was just I thought, what? And he said, you know, people say they're gonna sit on the fence, but there is no fence. You're saved or you're damned. I tell you, you're gonna knock me over with a feather. And I thought, I knew, I mean, having lived with with my dad and a radical as radical as he was a villain, he was now a radical Christian, and so I I'd hurt you know, I knew that when God spoke, he spoke like this is how God speaks to you. And I thought, this is God speaking to me. And Greg and I were both on the dole at that time. And so when the collection plate came round, I just emptied my purse because I wanted God to know you could have all of me, everything I have. Greg was sat next to me, he thought I was looking for change. And he just went, What? That and then he said, Well, I'm off, and he went down to the pub, and we just dropped out. And I stayed in the church, this is a church, and the youngest bloke there was the organist, and I remember saying to him, I need I need somebody to pray with me. I think God's speaking to me. And this bloke was obviously not a Christian, I don't think, because he said to me, Why, Pet, where'd you come from? You don't talk like me, where are you from? And I said, Sussex. Oh, I've always wanted to go down there. And he was all like, you know, and I'm saying, No, I need somebody to pray with. And he said, Well, whereabouts in Sussex? And he was I thought, this is ridiculous.
SPEAKER_00Just buying time to say.
SPEAKER_01He didn't know what to say to me, I don't think. Anyway, I thought, right, so I went home and I went up into my bedroom and I thought, well, Lord, if if you're really there, if you are real, if this is you speaking to me, then I if I'm gonna be a Christian, I want to be a faithful Christian. I want to be like Job, remembering the stories that my dad told us as you know, when he used to do the Bible stories in the evenings. I want to be faithful. I don't want to be the pathetic thing that I was at fifteen when I wasn't a Christian. I want to be completely committed to you. And so make me like Job, please, and forgive me. And um Nothing happened. So I was a bit disappointed. I thought we were expecting something, a lightning bolt or something? Yeah, nothing. So that was a very a bit disappointing, really. And um So I remember thinking, Well, what happens then? What do you do? You just prayed, what do you do? Where do how do you know? And um I at that time I was living with my gran. And every time I said I was gonna come down south to see Mum and Dad, because I had a real longing to see my brothers. They were so precious to me, and I missed them desperately. And um and every time I said I was coming down my granny would say, What you want to go down there for? He's a he's a religious nutter, you know, don't be down there. And she was terrified I was gonna stay. She loved having me with her. And um anyway, that I came downstairs and as I say, disappointed that I hadn't heard God's voice or something happened. And my granny said to me, Why don't you go down south for a bit? And I thought she would never say that must be God telling me.
SPEAKER_00She's really out of character for it. Completely.
SPEAKER_01So I get to I thought, I'm doing it. I said, Yeah, I'm doing it. I'm gonna go now.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_01Packed a case, went to Darlington bus station. And you you didn't have to you didn't have to book then like you do now, you just went and so I got to Darlington bus station, said to the bloke, Is this the London coach? And he said, Yes, why pet? He said and I said, Right, can I have a ticket single? And so he said uh his very words were I've no seats, Pet. And so this I said, you know, you must have, but I thought, well, if God's organising this, he would have saved me a seat, at least. That's a kind I'm so naive. Anyway, that's why I thought that's God speaking and God leading, there will be a seat. Anyway, the I so I was I said, You must have. And he went, No, Pet. And the bloke on the front seat who was reading a book just went, Did you say London coach? And I said, he said his very words were why you bugger, I'm on the wrong court. And so he got off.
SPEAKER_00This is the real gritty, this is the gritty testimony throwing it in.
SPEAKER_01That's what he said. And so I got on. I uh he got off and I got on, and it was on that bus that I met God. I met God on the bus. I know. I've I've started reading I'd taken my Bible, I was reading my Bible, and it just it just just came alive to me. It was just the most wonderful thing. And I've I was just praying and saying, you know, God, this is I know this is you, I know you're real, I know you love me, I know you forgive me. And I felt for the first time in my life completely loved. I'd never felt completely I'd never felt loved very much. But here I felt completely loved, completely accepted. I felt like God had wrapped his arms round me, and I felt completely sort of snuggled into him. I know it sounds it sounds peculiar, but that's how I felt. And I that long journey back from Darlington to London seemed to go so quickly because I was I was being loved.
SPEAKER_00Sort of overwhelmed by it. Totally, totally and weren't you quite concerned as well, because didn't you have to ring your family because you you you asked to be like Job.
SPEAKER_01I did, and then oh yeah, the next morning when I had prayed this prayer, and then the next morning when I woke up I had boils all down my arms. On both arms I had all these boils, and I thought, Hey? And so I quickly got my Bible and and here was Job sat on this ash heap scraping his boils, and all his family were died, and all his sheep and his camels. And I thought, oh no, I didn't mean like that. And I ran we didn't have a phone, so I ran across the phone box, and that's when I said to I said to my mum, I think you're all gonna die. And she said, What are you talking about, you daft a and I said, Well, I've prayed this prayer and I've got boils and everything, and like Job, and she said, Oh, talk to your father. My dad on the phone, and I said, Dad, this has happened to you. He said, It's just God showing you that he's heard you. He knows you're daft and you needed a really big sign.
SPEAKER_00Some very visible.
SPEAKER_01And so he's given you one. And I said, What shall I do? And he said, Well, don't ask me, ask God. And that's when I came downstairs and Granny said, Go. And so I c and that's Wow.
SPEAKER_00So that was and and so tell us a bit uh uh just briefly about because you were dating Greg who's now who is is your husband um at that point, and Greg wasn't a Christian. So just tell us what happened there.
SPEAKER_01Well, it was all I mean I l I was so in love with him, he was he was just the gentlest, kindest person and um but I'd been brought up from b dad becoming Christian and be you know being told that you shouldn't be unequally yoked to an unbeliever. And here I am now a Christian, and he's so not. And when I went back and said to him, look, this has happened, he took my Bible, he threw it across the room, and he said, It's a load of crap, you've just been you're just you know you've just been brainwashed, you don't believe all that. And I said, It's not, it's real, and so I I was just sort of pouring all this out to him, and he just said, Fay, nonsense, I don't want to hear any more about it. And so I said, Well darling, if that's the way you feel, then I can't marry you because this is really important to me. And it's life-changing, and I'm I've asked God to make me faithful, and I can't I can't marry you because you're not we need to be in this together. And so you if you want to marry me, you have to be a Christian. And so he stopped off. And I gave him his ring back, and I was heartbroken really, because I did love him, and so I said, God, if this is what you're calling me to do, then you're gonna have to take away the love I have for him and um and help me to do this. And so and that happened, and I had a real desire for Greg to become a Christian, but I wasn't you know, like that passionate love, I wasn't in love with him, I loved him and I wanted him saved, and um and so I came back, I thought I couldn't live up there. Um I needed to be down here, so I came back down south, and Craig, bless him, wrote to me every single day. And he would write, darling, this is stupid. You know we're meant to be together. I love you, da da da. And I'd write back, dear Greg, thank you so much for your letter. I've enclosed a book that I think you should read. And have you been to church? And have you d and are you a Christian yet? And so this went on for a well, a good year, and he would come down and stay with us, and on a Sunday morning we would all sit in a circle before we went to church and pray as a family, and Greg would sit in and he said he'd sit in a circle, but he couldn't pray because he said he didn't know who he was talking to. And um then he would come to church and he said, I you know, I can see that it's real for you, but it's not real for me. And uh anyway, after a year he rang up and said, You'll never guess what's happened. He said, I've become a Christian. I thought you'd just say that. I said, Oh come down, let me have a look at you, come down, let me see. And he came down on a Saturday night and um Bless him. He was so full of how he'd become a Christian, and he went to church and the man said, If Jesus came tonight, would you be ready? And he said he realised he wouldn't. And so he um he got on his knees and confessed and poured out his heart to to God and and knew that Jesus had uh was his saviour. So it was but I thought he's just saying that. Anyway, in the morning, on the Sunday morning where we we prayed, Greg prayed this most wonderful prayer, and that love that I had for him came back.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And Greg always tells everybody that was in the I think that was in the September. He was baptized in the January, we were married in the March, and then our daughter, he tells everybody, was born in the April, but it was the following and so we started to create the scandals there.
SPEAKER_00Literally. So I mean, amazing really that I mean you've been in this situation, and your your home life would be terrible, and an amazing work in your father's life. And an amazing change, an amazing work then in your life as well. I mean, just complete change again. Yeah. Just tell us a bit about um how your father went on in his faith.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Well then it gets desperately, desperately sad because um it must be 18 years ago. My dad was he wrote a book, he he was preaching, he was giving his testimony here and everywhere. Um and we were so uh proud of him. And um because I've got nephews and my son adored the bones of him, we all loved him. Um he was this tough guy, uh a Christian, very d very sort of off-pieced type of Christian, radical, very radical. He would shout across the road, How is it with thy soul, brother? And you know, he but he was just utterly committed. And so um yeah, eighteen, nineteen years ago, my son, bless him, came home and was in a desperate state, desperately sad, and shared with me a secret that he'd hurt he'd heard that night. That my father had been abusing another family member for years. Well, you can imagine. I was horrified, horrified, horrified. And um so we called all the family together and shared this. Is it was just the most awful thing because he was now what he did to me did as a non-Christian and stopped. And then here he was as a Christian doing exactly the same thing. And that taught me a great lesson about sin. I kind of see it like a dandelion. Sin is like a dandelion with this great long root that goes down into you, it's got you. And I think what my dad did was to chop the leaves off. And so it look or to all intents, not that he ever, ever said sorry to me or ever we it was never discussed uh when he used to give his testimony before I actually became a Christian. And he used to give his testimony. I quite often used to think, why don't you tell them what you did to me? They wouldn't think you were so clever then, would they? You know, and uh so it was a really bitter it was a bitter root in me that was, but um this sin in my dad, he had never I don't think he ever confessed it. And so when the opportunity arose, this root just he j it grew. And so he'd been abusing this other family member, and so we went to the police, he was arrested. He said he was innocent and all of this, and then he changed his plea. He did, thankfully, my brother John went to see him and said, You own this.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so he did. He changed his plea to guilty and he went to prison. But he never came home, he never came back to Sussex, he came out of prison and they moved up to Jackball, and he went back to this hedonistic lifestyle that he'd lived prior to becoming a Christian. I think, really and truly, he thought he'd blown it with God. And that's I mean, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Do you do you think that so to hear obviously that that was still going on is it ri i is is completely shocking.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00But the other stuff, I mean I've got the sense when I've talked about it before, that the it wasn't that the rest of it was an act.
SPEAKER_01I'm absolutely convinced. I I believe with all my heart that he became Christian.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because there was such a dramatic change and for years. Yeah. Over years. But yeah. I think that image you use, and I love the image you use of that that dandelion that the root goes deep with sin.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um and and and the sense that you you give is that there was this one thing that perhaps he never really brought he never confessed, he never came to really. Yeah. And almost I think like like he I think you were chatting about it earlier and saying that you you you maybe felt that or that he felt that even God didn't know about that. Like that was the thing.
SPEAKER_01That was his dirty seat.
SPEAKER_00It was almost so taboo that you couldn't bring that out into the public sphere. Yeah. Um and so that kind of took hold and things. And so, I mean, obviously, just I mean, devastating effects on you and the family.
SPEAKER_01Oh, my f my kids all turned away from Christianity because of it. My nephews all said it was all a load of rubbish. It was fake like he was. I don't think he was fake. I think he just hadn't ever confessed that's him. Never never dealt with it, never faced it, never and there it was.
SPEAKER_00And so But that that still really isn't even the end of the story, is it? Because I mean your father has passed away now.
SPEAKER_01Three years today. Is it really? Three years today.
SPEAKER_00Well tell us a bit about what happened at the end of his life. I think I think you said you were were you asleep in bed? I had a dream.
SPEAKER_01Um I had a dream that my dad was dying. I'd had dreams before and had gone up to see him when God had spoken to me through a dream, uh, to get a letter for this other family member who was very ill and not coping very well, and I needed my dad to own his sin. And so I'd gone uh in this dream I saw a table uh in in my in this kitchen that was had a dirty, filthy uh plastic doily tablecloth on with tea stains and everything. And I put a piece of paper on the table, my dad was it was at me wrote a letter, and I woke up in a sweat and said to Greg, I need to do this, I need to go. I did. Dad did write me the letter, I gave it to them the family member, and her life changed from there on. And but here we are now, another dream, and that he was dying. And then the next morning, my I think my sister in law racked it My sister in law rang and said somebody had rung her to say that he was in hospital. Or something I can't I can't kind of think. But anyway, I ran I said to Greg, I've got I'll ring the hospital and see if he's in. See if he is in. And he was. He was in hospital. And I said, We need to go. We need to go. So Greg, bless his heart. Such a faithful I love him to bits. Said, Yep, okay, he came with me, Billy. You know, he said, Right, let's pray and let's go. And we smartened up and we went all poshed up because I come in the name of God. And I wanted Do you know what I mean? I'm going into I don't know what and see you know So we all poshed up and we went up and got to the hospital and walked into this ward, and there's my dad. He was six foot of pure muscle. And here he is now, the bag of skin and bone. But still the same face, still the same dad. And I had found it very hard to deal with his sin towards this other family member. And um because he did it as a Christian. And so I carried that in me and um I walked into the ward and he just he opened his eyes and looked at me and just said forgive me. Well I tell you, I went mental. How dare you! I there's not just me, there's John, there's Kayla, there's Ken, there's Phil, there's Maggie, there's all the children. You destroyed our family, you broke our family with what you've done. How can you just think you can say forgive me? I'll never forgive you. And I have to and um and so he said, Well, when I get out, I I'll I'll put things right. And I just said, You're not getting out, you are dying. Ray poked me in the back, that's a bit strong. And uh gently, he said it's on. I said and he said, Who told you? Dad said, Who told you?
SPEAKER_00Because he thought you'd seen a nurse or a doctor.
SPEAKER_01He thought the doctor told me, and I said, God told me. Well he went as white as this dress, just face just drained. And he started praying. And I wanted to suffocate him. I wanted to take a don't you dare! How dare you think you can do that now? How dare you? All that you've done, all that you've destroyed, all the way you've lived in the last 18 years, how can you think you can do that? And as I was feeling all of that, I felt like God just poured a blanket of peace all over me. And I just went really calm and and I watched my dad praying and I watched Grace outpouring. And what came to my mind was that scripture where Jesus says, I will lose none that the Father has given me and I saw I saw Grace in action. I saw my dad being snatched from the mouth of hell. And it was the most surreal thing, really most heart-wrenching. Um and he prayed and he prayed and he prayed, and we just stood there as he prayed. And I just thought, you know, this is god God so loves us. And and you know, here I am looking at my dad who's dying and and God is rescuing him even now. He's bringing because he loved him. And that God's love is just so perfect. And it was just the most amazing thing, really, and I just thought, yeah, I really quite wanted him to burn a bit.
unknownYou know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00I didn't that's what I mean. I said to you when we chatted about this the other day that like it's as you talk about this, and I I mean the exact phrase you use were, you know, his feet must have been burning, you know, um and being you know, this idea of being snatched from the jaws of hell. And and we both talked about and said, you know, that is great, isn't it? That's and it's amazing. But I I think what's is that even for those of us like you and me, and I'm sure people listening in will be very convinced of Grace, and of course, but I mean I know when I hear this, there's still a little bit of me where you think, like, oh it just seems so scandalous that you could have done these things. But of course, that is that is grace.
SPEAKER_01That's God's love, that's his perfect love. Perfect love, perfect. And we are imperfect, and even though he had done the most heinous things, he was repentant.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01He was repent at the last. At the last. And he he puckered his lips as if uh to wanting me to kiss him, and and I did. I I did kiss him, and I said, I won't see you again unless I see you in glory. And we came out of there, and I still felt completely but we got on the bus and I think I cried from from Blackpool to to Peterborough. I just cried. It was the most but it was a cleansing thing. I felt like all that hatred and all that bitterness that I was carrying around because I wanted him to die, I wanted him to go, I didn't want him to pray that prayer, I didn't want him to be forgiven. Who am I? Who am I? I you know, I've been forgiven. I tried to kill him, you know. So, you know, I think God is just an amazing father. He was a rubbish father, mine, but he's an amaz. And it's got nothing to do with it's not about him being a you know a bad man, it's about him being a wonderful God. And and that I saw it, you know, there was this and and he died the next morning, even when I got a phone call the next day to say he died today, three days ago, three years ago today. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So it is um oh it's an amazing, amazing story. I mean, um I'm sure as people listened in, they'll have been absolutely rapt by what they've heard. And uh, I remember when I first heard this and you came and spoke to the youth group about it when I was doing youth work, and I think I asked you an initial question about you know, tell us what life was like growing up, and I didn't know your story, and you got to the end of this section, and I kind of was like I don't know what to say now, Fate. Um but I mean thank you for coming and and talking to us. I hope. Well, I know from I mean I don't think we've got any questions, but I know people have been commenting and and been saying how how useful they've found it, and they know people who will find it useful to hear this. But just amazing to hit hear of the grace, yeah, the work of God in your life and in your dad's life, even though you know that in some ways has been a very painful experience. Yeah, you know, that wonderful truth that you say of you know, I won't lose one.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_00Um and even at the end, no matter how much that even for those of us who are committed to that, can feel the wrankle of that a little bit, we also understand you know how how simple we are and and the great it's grace we all need, you know, and and stuff. So, Fay, thank you so much for coming and speaking and being so open and honest, because I know it's a it's a harrowing story as well. So thank you.
SPEAKER_02My pleasure.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Um we're pretty much at the end. Um we're gonna kind of wrap up in a few seconds now. Um again a big thank you to Faye. Just to say that um we'll be back next week at one o'clock. I'm gonna be talking to um uh a guy called Sam, uh who Sam used to be in my youth group, and so we're gonna be chatting a bit about what it was like being a Christian at school, and he's now at university, so we're gonna chat a bit about kind of challenges there. So maybe you're a student or you know students, um, and you'll be able to kind of tune in and hear some of that. Hopefully, it will be useful for you. If you've been watching this live um and the connections dropped a bit, I've tried to keep an eye on it. It's been, of course, yesterday when we did the tests, it was absolutely fine, nothing happened at all. But today, up and down a little bit. The recording should be up on YouTube um later in the day, and I'll probably repost it to Facebook in a kind of version that doesn't have any breaks in it, so it should be okay. Um hopefully you've enjoyed it. If you've enjoyed this, do like our page, like Speak Life UK, do share stuff around, share this content with people that you think it would be useful for because we love for this stuff to be used. So, guys, thank you so much uh for tuning in. Thank you again to Faye, and we will see you next time. Thank you very much. Bye.