The Speak Life Podcast, sharing Jesus in everyday life. Hello, if you're watching, why don't you type a comment and say hello? Uh good to see you. Hello. Yes. Speak Life is now live.
SPEAKER_01Fantastic. This is our first one in how many weeks have we been? It feels like a long time. I've probably been in the office for weeks because we've been in London and then you've been away, and so I've worked from home, so I've been in Denmark, in and out of consciousness.
SPEAKER_02Near death. Near death. Wheeled onto a stage in front of a thousand Danish students. Yeah, and then collapse back into a heap.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, man. Sleep for 23 hours and then Tell people what it was you were doing in Denmark. I have no idea. Don't remember any of it.
SPEAKER_02My mind just kind of threw me onto a stage and I kind of gave a talk. And then kind of went back to bed for 23 hours and got got up again. I had this horrible kind of cold and sore throat, and uh now I've got penicillin for it, which is penicillin. Yeah. That's proper.
SPEAKER_01Was it um Was it just a flu? Horrible kind of cold. Oh, here we go. Stop, stop. Um so yeah, it was I don't know. Is it flu or the man flu? Dreaded it was the dreaded man flu, the man flu. It was that one. Man flu. It did sound pretty bad actually, given your messages on WhatsApp. I got the impression it was pretty bleak.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, so that's why we weren't doing a live cast last week.
SPEAKER_01And then the week before in a city mission or something.
SPEAKER_02So we were doing a uh uh an outreach to the Canary Wharf. So that's a weird place. It's it's like somewhere it's like Hong Kong or Singapore or like some huge financial district in Southeast Asia. Just whacked there. Just kind of landing. On the edge of the docks. On the edge of the docks. And uh got to speak to people from KPMG and uh Barclays Bank.
SPEAKER_01They make good nuts, don't he? Those guys.
SPEAKER_02I think that's KP. Yeah, yeah. Um but yeah, Barclays Bank. Barclays Bank put on more Christian events like every week than my church does. Literally, like every day.
SPEAKER_01Every day they've got to find Christian event.
SPEAKER_02Oh, literally like they'll have a prayer meeting on the Monday, and they'll have a worship meeting on the Tuesday, they'll have a Bible study on the Wednesday, they'll have like some kind of talk on the Thursday, they'll have Testimony Day on the Friday. And this is um this is run by Christians in the bank, I see. It's run by Christians in the bank, but it's it's it's paid for by Barclays Bank. And they've got they've got this big um motto which is people know that.
SPEAKER_01Barclays are bank rolling a really nice canopies we had as well. The prosecco The Prosecco is like these bankers, yeah. They know how to live. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02They they haven't been entirely chastened since 2008, let's just say that. And uh yeah, they've got this motto, bring your whole self to work. And so they are active in supporting different faith groups and all kinds of people to continue on you know the living out of their fully fledged identities, including their Christian identity. And so they they throw money at the Christian group, and like I say, yeah, the Christian group puts on more Christian activities in a week than my church does, than probably any church any church does. Um so so one of the events that we ran for them was I was interviewing a guy called Jeremy Marshall, who's uh been diagnosed with stage four cancer, and he was um the head of uh Chaw Bank, um uh which is like one of the oldest private banks in in in the world. Yep. And uh he was he was a big city high flyer, but now he's talking about what's really important in life, and and we uh did he become a Christian or was he a Christian prior? Yeah, a Christian and a banker.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Have to think those two things exist. Well, this is this is the politicians with all these things. No, all these oxymorons.
SPEAKER_02If you can put them together, then God bless you. Um so yeah, I had uh so we had all sorts of events in the city of London in or in Canary Wharf, and we were reaching out to people there. Uh that was two weeks ago.
SPEAKER_01And you get a good crowd come in?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so like there they're all sort of in internal events, so KPMG ran their thing, and Barclays Bank ran their thing, and the um Financial Services Authority and the Ombudsman, and they're all putting on these different events, and and yeah, you get you get 7080 coming along to to these events and speaking about Jesus, so yeah, that was good fun. And uh and also this Easter we've uh we've churned out the videos. So we've got got twelve videos in a playlist. So if you want to go down below uh in the comments, you'll see um one of our uh playlists there has got uh all the different videos that we've released.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I've tried to I've tried to get all of them on there. Hopefully all of them are in there. If you can't if you think there's some missing, uh let me know. But they should be on the YouTube playlist as well. That's much easier to update than the Facebook one. Yes. Facebook hasn't quite nailed the video side of things just yet.
SPEAKER_02And audio on their video. Not brilliant. Not brilliant, but uh a little way to go, Facebook. Room for improvement. Yeah, if you're listening in, Mark. Yeah, come on, Mark. Um so yeah, so we launched all those videos, and I actually had a really lovely um uh message on Easter Saturday uh from Linda Tannis in the States, and she was uh talking about some of our Easter resources from last year, because she said, I just had to tell you that last Easter we gave Easter baskets with a copy of Love Story in them to all our cul-de-sac neighbours. So Love Story was our Easter book from last year. She said, Today I received a card from one thanking us for the gift of this book last year and saying that he had read it several times, and it's made a big difference for him, allowing him to be reacquainted with Jesus and leading him to become a member of a local church. She then said, One of our other neighbours became a Christian this year and is now part of a Bible study with me. And also I got to use the 321 gospel presentation with a woman who had terminal cancer. Before her death, she received Jesus and was urging the hospital staff and her family to know him too. So that's encouraging, you know. You scatter the seeds.
SPEAKER_01It's good to hear stuff like that, isn't it? Because I guess sometimes you put stuff out there and it you know, you see it on Facebook and it gets you know, people people watch something or they make some comments and there's some shares and but you sometimes you just wonder, like, has this made any difference really? Like, you know, and and you just don't know, do you? And and uh obviously you don't do it for that reason to to to know that these things have happened, but it is an encouragement, isn't it, to know that you're not just shouting a you know into an empty space. Shouting into the void into the void, exactly, that stuff actually doesn't make a difference. So it is good to hear those things. Um positive stories there, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, totally. Like yeah, thousands of uh divine comedy books going out this Easter, so we pray for them and for for their fruitfulness. Um so yeah, I guess it's a it's a seed scattering thing, and then you pray to God that he makes it fruitful, but it's it's nice when you hear that he has made it fruitful. Yeah, definitely, definitely. Uh one of the other things uh I was up to just before Easter was recording an unbelievable um podcast with uh Justin Briley. So you might know the Unbelievable podcast on uh Premier Christian Radio. He gets Christians and non-Christians talking together every week. And I was talking to Michael Collette, uh, who's actually from Australia as well, and he's an atheist. And we were debating uh really my my book, Divine Comedy, uh, is death a tragedy for atheists? Is resurrection wishful thinking for Christians? And uh I had no idea that this was the case, but I went on uh online this morning to see that there are two hundred and twenty-four comments um under this particular episode of Unbelievable. So search for it where you get your podcasts or have a look in the uh the live cast comments on Facebook and you'll see a link to that program. And we we got into some interesting stuff, I think. I think he Michael Collette was uh was a little bit um taken aback when I said that life without resurrection is tragic. I think he he thought that I was like making a moral judgment of the person living that story. Um and I was yeah, hopefully saying, look, um Hamlet is a tragedy and it's full of all sorts of wonderful adventure and you know noble suffering and sacrifice and wonderful truths along the way. Um but it does end with everybody dead, right? So that if if that is the story of the world, then life is a tragedy. And and I think if you just stick within that kind of literary definition of a tragedy, I think it's unanswerable. I think I think life without Jesus is a tragedy. Umly Easter gives you the comedy. Yeah. So have a have a listen to the Unbelievable Podcast and see what you make uh make of that. Um so that's what's new at uh Speak Life at the moment. And uh let's have a look about uh what's news. I think top of the the the the news stories uh all over the UK, anyway, are stories about uh Jeremy Corbyn. What's Jeremy Corbyn been up to, uh Paul?
SPEAKER_03Can you explain?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I mean, heart so much stuff going on, isn't there? So the I mean there's like these these big claims of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party and whether that's not been sufficiently addressed. Um I think it emerged that there were something like 70 allegations that had just been left to kind of fester and not been followed up on. But then the thing that's really come out, I think was it today, it was this morning, or was it yesterday? I think it happened last night, yeah. Yeah, so Corbyn has gone and he has spent time uh at a uh with a a group of Jews, I think called Judas groups.
SPEAKER_02Which puts me over to the fact they might be quite a provocative group. They might be quite a provocate reaction. You never know. Judas, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and so he's coming for a l a a lot of flack for going and associating with these uh these Jewish this Jewish group um who, at least from what I'm seeing written online, um are known as being kind of a bit more far left and um anti uh well they're not as in line with the mainstream Judaism as some would say. Yeah. Um that's all kind of come up and it's like, well, has Jeremy Corbyn stoked the fires when he when he should be putting them out. Yeah, is it a deliberately provocative thing? Is he actually anti-Semitic and this is and that's why he's hanging out with these guys who are Jews? Um the irony to me at least seemed that you know, he I mean my my my view on what what's going on, obviously I'm not I don't know all the ins and outs is that I doubt Jeremy Corbyn is anti-Semitic. Um he this move seems a slightly strange one and probably slightly ill judged. Yeah, yeah, and probably not the best time and and whatnot. Um but you know, it just seems a bit ironic for people to say, look, you know, you've got this anti-Semitism problem, and he says, Well, I've just gone and hung out with these Jewish guys and go, Oh yeah, but those aren't the right kind of Jews. Those Jews Jewish guys Jews? No, no, not those Jews. The other Jews. These are the Jews we want you to hang out with. You know? It's like, oh come on, like you've you've got to where do you draw the line on these things? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it but it has put me in mind of this issue about anti-Semitism. David Badil um wrote this excellent article in the Times over the weekend, um, kind of putting things in context. And one of the one of the things he said, which I thought was was very um important, is that he got us away from the title anti-Semitism and says, well, let's call it what it is, anti-Jewish racism. And I thought that's interesting, because Semitism, it sounds like like you you know you've got a problem with a language group, or you know, I d I don't like the language group of Middle Eastern languages. Um, it's anti-Jewish racism. Um But then David Badil says, Okay, but isn't it it's it's the strangest form of racism? Can you think of another form of racism where you say this group of people are the worst and they're at the top of the pile, right? You know, they they are, you know, as as the Nazis would have said, they are vermin and all that kind of stuff, but they're also pulling the strings. And they're also the power players in this world, and you've got this sort of conspiracy theory that they're actually in charge of the world and they're the worst. And and actually, when he said that, I thought, yeah, that's interesting. I I can't think of another group where there is this hated-despised minority and they are said to be you know the the very powerful ones at the same time. And I think with the Jewish race, you've got this very interesting, you know, kind of example of of a people group who who do you know punch above their weight in all kinds of areas. You know, I read a statistic just this morning, you know, less than 2.2% of the world is Jewish, and yet 22% of Nobel Prize winners are Jews, 41% of Nobel laureates in economics are Jewish, 11% of the world's billionaires are Jewish, 20% of the world's richest 50 people are Jewish. And that's amazing. And, you know, in the hands of some kind of anti-Semite conspiracy theorist. Exactly. That's the word that comes to my mind there, is it's the conspiracy. Pulling the strings. But is there is there a rational explanation? Is there a rational non-racist explanation for that? And I think the Bible gives you a rational non-racist explanation for that. Um there is such a thing as God's special people, right? Now, according to the spirits, we are grafted into Christ and we are the true Israel and we are God's people. According to the flesh, yeah, there is such a thing as ethnic Israel. Sure. And God has protected this thing called ethnic Israel down through millennia. And, you know, I don't know any Moabites and I don't know any Hittites and I don't know any Gergeshites. My Philistine next-door neighbor. My Philistine, yeah. I call people Philistine. But there's something else. And that's something else. Like, like, isn't it astonishing that God has preserved an ethnic people called the Jews? And they're they are only 0.2% of the of the world population. And they're incredibly like, you know, um successful in in a thousand different areas, and they're incredibly persecuted in a thousand different ways. Aren't they a special people? And I and I just wonder um whether the Bible gives you the goggles to have a look at this situation without resorting to the anti-Semitic stereotypes. Um like what do yeah, why how do we even make sense of anti-Semitism unless there is this special people group that have uniquely suffered and are uniquely successful.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's strange to see like where this comes from. And I was saying to you earlier that, you know, I find anti-Semitism very it's bizarre to me. I said I wasn't even really aware of it, I don't think, until I was maybe a young adult. And you start to pick up you see it in like it was probably picked up a bit more through like films and TV. You know, there's references um to the Jews, you know, or he's a Jew and you know, in some kind of film or whatever. Um but I it's to me I just never grew up in any kind of culture where any any where people weren't even really talking about Judaism and Jews. Which is not to deny that is a good idea. No, not at all. It was just like to me is it's such a strange thing. I mean I was very you know aware, of course, of of you know racism across all kinds of other groups and you would hear things and people might say things. But I just never came across it. You know, it's so and and then for and like you say, then when you do come across it, it's not just like this small it's not like it's a very niche thing. Right. It seems very widespread all across the world, lots of different cultures seem to rally against the Jews. Yeah. Um and and it's very much the Jews who are terrible but also running everything, like you say. Right.
SPEAKER_02You know, it's it's a very it is a bizarre thing. And scapegoated for the problems of a society. So, you know, if you're if your country is tanking and going down the tubes, who are you gonna blame? You know? And they've sure they have for millennia been very you know, I mean since Pharaoh's days, right? Well, what are we gonna do with all these Jews? And and genocide becomes the solution, you know, way back in in Exodus chapter one. So for yeah, so so how do we even make sense of this? And I and I think the Bible gives us some some categories for thinking about it. So um Okay, so what what else is in the news? You you were looking at an article on on BBC uh BBC News earlier, Paul. What was that one?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so often when I when I wake up in the morning, the first thing I do is, or one of the things I do over breakfast is get out my phone and look at the BBC news and read through the most read articles, see what's going on. And one that kind of it well, it it didn't particularly catch my eye when I saw it, it was more when I was reading through it, but there was an article called The Mothers Who Regret Having Children. It was all about I think it was three mothers, I think I think they changed the names, who basically as it says, regretted having their children, and even though their children were s you know sometimes are slightly older and whatnot. Um And these children were not like special needs, they they they didn't have any particular disabilities. No, there's nothing mentioned in the stories, it's it's just such that seemingly they were, you know, just they just had kids and sometimes they cried or sometimes they had these normal kind of children in that way. Um but a few sentences kind of leapt out at me because I read I as I read them I thought, wow, that is so regardless of their situation, I thought that is so kind of the opposite end of the scale to the gospel, it's such a different l outlook on life. Right. And I mean the one particularly that leapt out was this lady said you know, in she'd in reference to the way your life changes when they ha you have children, she said, But life shouldn't be about giving up your life, your freedom, so they can have a life. Wow. And that just really struck me, like this sense of you know, can you think that as a Christian, that's what the gospel is, isn't it? It's giving up your life so that others can have life.
SPEAKER_02It's what Jesus did for us, it's what women to do for others. Jesus, that's it. Yeah Got the link. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, and so I just read that and I thought, wow, you know what I mean I don't I don't think as I read I I was very wear, you know, I want to be wary as we talk about this, because you know one of the ladies said people don't talk about this for fear of being judged. Right. Of course we all feel, you know, if you've got kids you know, if you've you've got you've got a daughter, I've got two girls, sure people watching have got kids, you know, some people. Um you know, of course, having children is hard work, and it does mean giving up certain things. I mean it is a sacrifice. Yeah. It is a sacrifice having kids in many ways, you know. Your t your time is no longer your own. Yeah. Um, you know, it it costs you i emotionally and financially and pretty much in every way. Yeah. Um and there are of course days when you just think this is such hard work. Like Do you remember when it you know you know, do you remember when you didn't have children when you went to the city? When we went to the cinema, do you remember when yeah, those kind of things. Do you remember when we just used to go out for dinner, that kind of stuff and and whatnot? Yeah. And of course life changes and and stuff. But I don't think I've ever hit the point where I'd say, I just wish we'd never had them. Right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That seems like another step on down the line. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It totally is. And life should not be about giving up your life, your freedom, so that they can have a life. It's it couldn't be more antithetical to the gospel.
SPEAKER_01And we said, didn't we, that you could you could understand that mentality somewhat if people were saying I shouldn't have to sacrifice for this group of people over here who I don't know. Right. I don't know them, they don't like me, they've treated me badly. You know, we talk about the Good Samaritan. You could understand in the Good Samaritan story at least a bit. You can understand why people might go, it's nothing to do with me. Yeah. I don't have to sacrifice for this person. Right. But this is your children. These are your kids. Your own children. But I don't know how I yeah, I mean I don't know how I feel about it. Part of me may, you know, I as I read that, I think.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's hard.
SPEAKER_02And you want to have sympathy. Yeah, you want to find it hard. And they don't and maybe they're expecting to feel a rush of a maternal instinct and love that just sweeps them up with warm gooey feelings.
SPEAKER_01Was it you who were saying earlier on what was it an article another article about a lady who said she'd she'd written in and she said, one day my son's gonna read this that's a good thing. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I wish I'd never had him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's a thing, it's a thing now. Like wrongful birth is now a a thing, and and lots of lots of lawyers are getting, you know, rich off it in the States, where you have, as your pregnant woman, you're screened um to see if your child is going to carry any kind of disease. And the idea the idea is if it if the child does indeed have a disease, you would abort the child. Um, and then, you know, one or two one or two children with illnesses slip through the cracks of the net, and they get born, and then the parents are um then suing the medical facilities for not picking up this disease, because if they had picked up the disease, they would have killed the child in the womb, and and it's called wrongful birth. And this is this is now a thing. And there was this woman writing about it in the Times a month or two ago, and uh and she was saying, Look, I I know, I know this will be hard for my child when they grow up, and they search the their name online, and they will find this article, and they will discover that I did not want them. And I do love them, I love them, but I just wish they were never born. Because life should not be about sacrifice, you know, and the and the child is gonna be in pain and it's gonna be, you know, hugely sacrificial for the family to then deal with a child with additional needs and all that sort of stuff. And so life is not worth it. Life should be about just living for yourself, right? Life should just be a pain-free operation.
SPEAKER_01And isn't that what everything that's what everything around us says, isn't it? You know, your your your kind of worldviews, your adverts on the telly, you know, and it's it's all about you and yourself and fulfilling yourself and finding the thing that will satisfy you and you know, put yourself first and whatnot. Yeah. And then and then I suppose and then and then we read articles like this or or that one and and we're surprised. Yeah, well exactly. Should we be surprised if we're sending all these messages out? Saying no life is about you and Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02And if people are holding you back, like how many Facebook moves have you read? If someone's holding you back, you should just cut them loose. And so like a mother who's been soaking in this for like You're holding daddy back. You're a leech. You're a leech, Ruby.
SPEAKER_01I mean it's yeah, and this is not, of course, to downplay. We don't want to downplay that it's difficult having children. Of course it is.
SPEAKER_02It's just life is pain, though, people. Life is pain. Get the memo. Get the memo. Because what's fascinating to me about this BBC article, because I was just thinking, you know what? Like, even from a Darwinian perspective, like a da a purely Darwinist, forget Jesus for a minute. A pure Darwinist would just say, well, of course you make a sacrifice for your progeny, your offspring, you're invested in them. They are the future. Of course you make sacrifices for that. Like every culture on earth says, of course, the good life is you sacrifice now for the sake of the next generation. Every single culture on earth, we couldn't have gotten here. We couldn't have gotten here if we had any other view. And now all of a sudden we've been soaking in this story that it's all about me. That that now we can't we can't even like obey basic biological reality anymore. And it's anyway. But I mean w w one of the things that made me uh think about this was I guess was two Fridays ago when there was the the the terrorist attack uh near Carcassonne in in the south of France and and the the gunman ended up taking hostage a number of people and then the the French policeman uh Arnaud Bel Beltram?
SPEAKER_01Arnaud Beltram My French is I've named French, so I'm not even gonna attempt to pronounce it.
SPEAKER_02Um that's not just me sneezing. Uh Arnaud Beltrame, I think, is is his name, and he he volunteered to be a hostage, and and what a what a gift for you know Good Friday preachers, because here is a man literally giving himself as a ransom for somebody else. And he can you imagine the scene as he walks into the supermarket and the woman is being released from the supermarket? I wonder if they kind of exchanged glances as they passed one another because she knew that he was going in to take her place and the chances of him coming out alive were were virtually zero. And so here is this man who is giving up his life for the sake of another. It's the most Christ-like thing you can imagine. And I remember when I first heard that story, just thinking, where do you find a Frenchman who's gonna do that when a very secular French society is not telling them that story? They're not t you know, the French say- you know, not that the French are any less selfish or more selfish than anybody else. You know, I'm not sure why I would give up my life the way that Arnaud did in in those circumstances. But where are you gonna find uh a culture that's going to immerse you in the right kind of story that's gonna create the right kind of hero? Because if it's all about me and just living this absurd blip of time before my inevitable extinction, why on earth would I give up this little blip of of life uh for the sake of somebody else? And then I discover that actually he is a serious, devout Catholic. He came he came back to his childhood faith in in his 30s, and he had been soaking in the right story. He had been shaped by the true hero of heroes who had given his life as a ransom for many, and this is the reason why he was able to do what he had done. But it just makes you think, well, are we are we gonna be able to produce heroes in the future? You know, if even parents are saying, oh, it's a bit hard though, you know? If even parents with their own children who they say they love, are starting to say, yeah, but it's a sacrifice. You know? Yeah. What hope society? I'm I'm sounding like Peter Hitchens now or something. Some kind of grumbling male on Sunday columnist, but what hopes society when we can't even sacrifice for our kids?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't even know what to say. I mean it's it's it's we this is that thing, what would you do for your children? I mean, I preached the other week and I used that I did use that film about the bridge and the thing, but I was very So if you've not uh let's give some clarity here. Okay. So I talked about I talked about um I was gonna pr uh preach um an Easter preach at two services and I was using a clip from a film called The Bridge. Um I think it's called Most. Um it's that's the word in Czech, it's a Czech film, and the word most means the bridge, I think. Let me know. Um basically it's it's a you know father who works at a bridge with a railway bridge, you know, over it, and there's a river underneath and it goes up and down to let boats through and whatnot, and he's got his young son with him at the bridge, and one day the train comes early and the bridge is up, and the son falls down into the gears to you know when he's trying to change the set the bridge um back down. And the father has this kind of decision as to do I pull the handle and put the bridge down and save everyone, or do I and therefore kill his son who's in the machinery, or does he let his child live and all these people go to their deaths? And I used it as a image of the thing. I was very careful to specify you know, there is a difference between this and the gospel that of course in Jesus says, No one takes my life from me, I lay it down on my own accord. Voluntary things. I said there's a limit to this there, and I was very keen to clarify that. But the thing I said, and had a few people come and talk to me about it afterwards was I said, you know, it put yourself in that situation as a parent, your child, all these people, I said, What would you do? And I said, I thought about it, and the reality is I would send all of those people to their deaths every time.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_01I said, even if I knew that those people on the train were Nobel Prize winners that someone had a cure for cancer. Right, right, right. I said, I would just not for the sake of my child. And I said, and if I knew they were all selfish, enslaved stuff-ups, which were kind of gospel setup in the first place, like I am, then I wouldn't hesitate if I knew there were all these terrible people, and I kind of went on to say, you know, of course God did know exactly what we were like, and yet he still sent him sent his son and Christ still voluntarily gave himself. But people were saying, like, a few people came up and said, Oh yeah, it's uh they said it's absolutely true. Like if it was my child, there was no way I would do it. You put yourself a bit on a limb there, you know, you you you're expecting you don't know whether the church is gonna turn around and go, What an awful human being. Right. Like you know, no. But there's that there's that it's the there's that paternal or parental mother's maternal parental thing, which is a s is a strong thing. So it seems really strange the link from what we're talking about. It feels strange to read an article where people would say you could you could get to a point where you'd you you would just say, Oh, I'd rather the train went I'd rather my kid was gone so that I can be free, you know, because you can imagine if these I'd rather go to Greg's for Chocolate Eclair.
SPEAKER_02That's that's what the new thing is.
SPEAKER_01Can you imagine though, if you put you though you know, if that if you put that scenario on the people in that article, would they be thinking with that handle in their hand actually this parenting thing's quite tough, I'd be free of that if I just let the train go.
SPEAKER_02In our society. Yeah. Which is I mean, and I think that's why we we might have gone a uh a podcast without mentioning Jordan B. Peterson, but not anymore. Saint Jordan. St. Jordan Yeah, but you know, I I think that's why when he's kind of saying, hang on, what about responsibility? Uh and actually let's let's get people to pick up their responsibility and and carry the heaviest thing they can and make the sacrifice they can, make the sacrifice now for the sake of a better tomorrow. Um, I think that's having traction because um you can't deny that that's what a meaningful life is full of. A meaningful life is full of that kind of sacrifice. And even Peterson, who's not coming from a Christian point of view, when he says that, I think people are responding to it.
SPEAKER_01Even on the most basic level, like in away from parenting and the huge sacrifices, but just the the basic everyday of you grind away for something, you put in the hard work, and then something comes, you know, there's there's a reward there at the end. Yeah. We all we all understand you feel like that is more worthwhile than simply just being handed something, don't you? Yeah. Um which is probably why as well we then find it so hard to accept the gospel in some ways that we feel like we should have hang on, what do you mean we just get given this, you know? Yeah. We do feel we should have ground you know, grinded our way through the system up the ladder.
SPEAKER_02Um I don't know, we're tangenting. Tangentializing. Um so yeah, we've been thinking about what's new, we've been thinking about what's news. Uh Ian McCarthy says individualism is incrementally infiltrating, said he on his individual device.
SPEAKER_01Ian's doing a little bit of uh So unless you posted that from your community page, um I I've lost the power of the English language.
SPEAKER_02What is that um when when you use the same letter again and again? Um Alliteration. Alliteration, that's it. I do like alliteration. Yeah, there you go. It's good, it's good. Individualism is incrementally infiltrating. Yeah, it totally is, but it's but it's gotta snap back because at some stage we've gotta realise we live in community.
SPEAKER_01Um I I I I do find it fascinating. I mean I'd like I wish I had an opportunity to look into it more. Obviously we I'm so I've grown up we've both grown up in individualistic cultures, and of course yet there are cultures in the world which are not like that at all. Right. You know, there's the the village, yeah, you know, and the the good of the community and and I just it would just be interesting, I think, for me. I I would find it interesting to go and look at that and just see how things work differently. Yeah, because it's so difficult for us to pull ourselves out of that mindset, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01I guess.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah, and to put others ahead of yourself. Imagine that.
SPEAKER_03Imagine that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Good. Okay, well, um let's move on to our thorny question. Our thorny question um that we posted up the video last night, it's in the comments of the live cast if you haven't checked it out already. Um but it is the second of our two-part series on science. Uh first of all, we we asked, is faith the enemy of science? So we said no. And then last night we answered the question, is science the enemy of faith? And uh should we have a look at the first minute or so of that? Yep, let's try and tee this one up.
SPEAKER_01Here we go. Last week we saw how science and faith are often pitted against each other.
SPEAKER_00As for science versus religion, I'm issuing a restraining order. Religion must stay 500 yards from science at all times.
SPEAKER_01But actually, science and faith are not enemies. They're the best of friends.
SPEAKER_03Oh, friend! Oh new friend!
SPEAKER_01Science tells us loads about mechanisms and matter, whereas faith tells us all about the maker and his meaning. And so we don't have to choose between them. Faith should make us eager to enter the lamp with renewed enthusiasm, to keep on researching God's creation.
SPEAKER_02Continue the research. This week we're thinking about it from the other side. Science is not the enemy of faith. Science should make us eager to enter church with renewed enthusiasm. Let's explore four scientific truths that fit the faith story far more than the atheistic story.
SPEAKER_01Firstly, the idea that everything came from nothing. Scientists now believe in a cosmic beginning. Call it a Big Bang or some other origin story, but the universe, it seems, had a genesis. Without God, though, a universe coming into existence is pretty far-fetched. I mean, as a Christian, I believe in the virgin birth of Jesus, but this is the virgin birth of the cosmos, and there wasn't even a virgin. It makes far more sense to say that there was a God who brought the universe into being. So there we go. There we have it. That's part of the follow-up there. You can check it out, as Glenn said, down below.
SPEAKER_02Down below. So I I guess like last last week we kind of saw how um faith and science are not enemies, they are the best of friends. That really what what the um what the opposition is is really between naturalism, the philosophy, and faith in Jesus. Uh, and those two things are opposed to each other. One of them says that there's nothing beyond chemistry and biology and physics, and the other one says, no, there is uh a living God who has created the world of of the natural. Um and so those two things are what's kind of in opposition. And then science, well, like science could be done by a believer, science could be done by an atheist. Science, science is not kind of the thing that's in in opposition to faith. It's these two um positions. Um and I guess in this video we're we're trying to show really how actually the naturalistic position, if you think that the cosmos is all there is, was, and ever shall be, um, you're still committed to a whole bunch of miracles, actually. Um and we we go through these sort of four miracles um that you have to believe in. You have to believe that everything's come from nothing, you have to believe that order has come from chaos, that life has come from non-life, and that consciousness has come from mindless matter. And all of those miracles are orders of magnitude more improbable than anything that the religious religions of the world have ever um come up with. So I love G.K. Chesterton's quote. He said that um the whole order of things is more improbable than any miracle that could be said to violate it. Um So this whole thing, the fact that we've got everything from nothing, order from chaos, life from non-life, and and minds from mindless matter, that is just that is just we're living in a miracle right now. We're absolutely living in a miracle. So don't let a naturalist come to you and say, ah, you faith heads, you're the ones who believe this these absurd miracles. Everyone um believes in a miracle. Um so maybe we should maybe we should go through the those four and show how they make better sense on the Christian understanding of things rather than the atheistic understanding of things.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, okay, so that so we talked the first one that w was everything, the idea that everything came from nothing, and we talked a bit in the video, uh well, you've just seen that clip, weren't you? That was in there about the the idea of, you know, as a Christian, you know, you and I, we believe in the virgin birth, but the idea of kind of the universe just popping into existence, it's like the virgin birth of the cosmos, but there isn't even a virgin. Yes. You know, that's a real that's a real miracle right there, you know. Wow. Um But the thing I thought would be interesting as we talk about these would be to think uh what what would the what is the non-Christian what's the non-Christian response to these points, you know, as you know, as we we put these out on the Speak Life page on YouTube, a lot of Christians watch these. I'm sure there are some non-Christians as well, but in a sense there's an easy audience there who are gonna kind of go, Oh yes, well done. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Preach to the choir.
SPEAKER_01Preaching to the choir. Yeah. Yeah. But I said you you've obviously you've you've talked about this kind of thing at various mission weeks and church events over the years, I'm sure you've mentioned these kind of points. Be interested to know what kind of kickback you've got and may uh kickback you've had against it, and you know, when you get that kickback, what is it? Where'd you go in response to that?
SPEAKER_02So the everything from nothing thing um is I I I guess it's kind of like um it's kind of like the the cosmological argument if you if you're gonna um talk in philosophical terms, so Thomas Aquinas would talk about um yeah, the very existence of everything out of nothing um makes you makes you believe that there is something who could bring about that transition. Because it's quite the transition um from nothing to everything. Um I mean one one comeback to that is just to say, well, actually, um an eternal an eternal cosmos um might be an answer. May maybe actually we've been sort of crunching and exploding and crunching and exploding and crunching and exploding infinitely. Maybe that maybe the Big Bang that we go back to you can go, you know, before that. And maybe maybe there has been this this eternal you know cosmos and that kind of thing. And and certainly before the Big Bang, so going back just a hundred years in cosmology and physics, people were very happy to say that the universe is just a brute fact. Cosmos is all there ever has been.
SPEAKER_01That idea of the universe just expanding and continually forever and ever, that's just uh that's purely a faith thing, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02Exactly.
SPEAKER_01There's no evidence for that. I mean Right.
SPEAKER_02There could be no evidence for it. Yeah. But in principle, because you cannot you cannot then use it.
SPEAKER_01Well surely that means this can't be true then. Because I'm always hearing as a Christian that of course, you know, the only thing that's worthwhile is this empirical scientific evidence. Right. But uh but yet actually that kind of thing you've just said would come out of the mouth of a scientist without any scientific empirical evidence at all.
SPEAKER_02And I and I guess it goes to show that empirical evidence must be um thought through on the basis of these pre-commitments that we've all got. And the pre-commitments are things like, yeah, we know what the physical laws of this universe are, we know that they are constant throughout space and constant back through time, um, and you can only deal with the empirical evidence on the basis of those you could call them faith commitments, but let's just call them prior commitments. Um But if if we're going back beyond the Big Bang, then we're going into a world in which who knows what the laws of physics are in this other universe. Same goes for the for the multiverse. We might get into the multiverse in a in a second when we talk about order from chaos. But when people bring up the multiverse, they're bringing they're bringing up a universe that is in principle inaccessible to the scientific method. Right, yeah. You cannot go and do a measurement for that other universe, because that other universe plays by different rules. Yeah. Right? So the only universe we've got seems to have a beginning. Alright? Let's let's just go with that. The only universe that we're in seems to be having uh have a beginning, and therefore it does seem to be logically absurd to believe that everything came from nothing for no reason. That's that's where I come back to.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, very, very unlikely. Okay, and so the second one when this is the idea that order came from chaos, and we talk in the video again about you know, if there's a huge explosion, this is the first time there's ever been an explosion that's brought incredible order to things. You know, we talk about the the balance of the universe. If we know if the explosion had banged just that bit quicker, we'd all be flung out into hate death, if it'd all have been a bit less, we'd all be able to do that. Right, come into the mic so that you can be pick up uh pulled back in, you know, uh crunched back in on ourselves, but we seem to be just the right amount and whatnot. Yeah. Um what do you hear when you know when we talk about this idea when when you say order came from chaos, it seems like a ridiculous notion.
SPEAKER_02The first thing I mean, I I studied this back at university, like last century for goodness sakes, and I remember I remember kind of studying in philosophy of religion, these arguments, and and the the best kind of comeback is oh no, there's the anthropic principle. And the anthropic principle is that if I find myself in a universe that is naturally ordered, that I can observe, then it can be the only universe that I would find myself in. So it is no surprise that I find myself in an or uh in an orderly universe in which I am I am an observer and I can look around.
SPEAKER_01Just just slow that just break that down for those of us uh I mean obviously for viewers at home. Uh uh not not for me.
SPEAKER_02Well Just break that down a little bit for those of us who are not familiar with concepts such as that, which I'll s I'll set it up in terms of an illustration that will then prejudice how you see the arguments. But I think it's I think it's I think it's right to then prejudice you. Okay, okay. Okay. Imagine so there are all these physical constants. Let's say there are like 30 physical constants, and the numbers have to be just so in order for there to be a life-permitting universe. Okay. And one of those constants is the cosmological constant that describes the expansion of the of the of the universe. That has to be just so in within a range of one in ten to the power eighty, which is a one over one and eighty zeros. Yep, so very precise. Quite a big number. Yeah, no. I think there's there's like there's like ten to the power sixty atoms in the universe. This is a big number, right? Um and so it has to be just right. So you you can imagine, imagine that you've got this roulette wheel, and it's it's got the cosmological constant written on it, and you've got to spin the cosmological constant wheel, and it has to stop just on that one number in a wheel that's got 10 to the power 80 numbers on it. Yep. And you think, oh, it did it! Fantastic. Well, but you're not finished. You've got 29 other physical constants. You've got to spin like the you know, the force of gravity has to be just so, and the and the strong and weak nuclear force, the balance between those has to be just so. And you spin these wheels, and there's 30 different ones. Yeah. And even if you get to the 30th one and the number is just wrong, that's it. That's it. There's no you. So um imagine that you're there and you're strapped to a a chair, and there are explosives under the chair, and the explosives will go off unless And viewer, we've got this live. A worked example. A worked example. We've got Semtext under Paul's chair. And and imagine imagine you know, it's the case that only if every single one of these 30 wheels gets the right number will you survive. Any other combination and you won't be there, right? And so the anthropic principle basically comes along. Don't like these odds. I don't like these odds, to be honest. The anthropic principle says, well, obviously, if you are if if it gets to the end and and if you are observing all three. 30 of those wheels hitting the right number, well then obviously that that could be the only universe in which you can observe these things. I see. Yeah. Otherwise you wouldn't be hitting the. So there's nothing there's nothing at all strange.
SPEAKER_01Just very, very, very, very, very, very lucky is what they say.
SPEAKER_02Very lucky, but and and of course, like if you're the guy or the girl strapped into this chair and thirty times and like your heart leaps and and like I think you'd be thinking, This is rigged. Wouldn't you? Yeah. Absolutely. You'd be like, I've got no hope here. You n you wouldn't be thinking Oh I guess it makes sense that I'm still alive, because if I wasn't still alive I I wouldn't be wondering at the at the odds of things. Yeah, it's a strange It's a strange thing to think.
SPEAKER_01Yes, there's a strange.
SPEAKER_02You know. And it and it uh completely relies on um the fact that you believe that there must be like an almost infinite number of such scenarios that are out there. You know, a as though that this experiment must have must have happened trillions of times around the around the world. And you just happen to be the lucky.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. I often admire the faith of these movies.
SPEAKER_02I know. Well you have to we live in a miraculous universe. Yeah. You've got to have faith in something, right? And we're we're just saying, well, what what if there's a god who actually wants us? You know, maybe that's why the universe is is rigged. Maybe it's rigged, you know? Which seems to be the yeah, the most the order of the day. Yeah, I think it's probably rigged. So that's the the order coming from chaos. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Great. Okay, and then thirdly, we have the idea that um life came from non-life. And then we talked about how do you actually get from inorganic matter to life and organic matter. And actually we say about despite all our money and resources and science, we can't really actually replicate this in the lab at all.
SPEAKER_02And we can't even replicate it like mathematically and with computer modelling, which is like so that just goes to show how really, really, really difficult it is. Um and so and some people might point to certain kind of uh experiments where like prebiotic chemicals you know turned into organic chemistry and that kind of stuff. Um but they're they're not talking about like creating life in the lab. We can't create life in the lab when we're trying.
SPEAKER_01Isn't it amazing? This is a real turn. I was gonna say, isn't it amazing that they would look at something there there'd be people who would look at that and go, look, life. But yes. Nice. But yet a fetus in the womb. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Nah. Pump of cells. Yeah. That's a that was a cells.
SPEAKER_01Let's not let's not go down that road. They're all linked.
SPEAKER_02I think it is all linked. I think it is all linked.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, but is that isn't it's the whole people say about you know life on Mars, you know, they find they'll find a cell and one day they'll be like life, but yeah, in the womb. Yeah, that's not life.
SPEAKER_02Well Richard Dawkins talk uh spoke about the um what is it, the tyranny of the discontinuous mind. And what he what he meant was he said that biology has taught us that we are all on a continuum. And so I'm on a continuum with chimpanzees, and you go back to lobsters, you know, Jordan B. Pearson, you know, and all the way back, and we're all on this continuum. And so it's it's you know, it's always arbitrary to draw a line and say that's life and it deserves our protection, right? Right, yeah, I see. And so and so actually for his biology, uh his atheistic biology was informing his and then he brought it into the pro-life kind of argument and said, Well, it's just arbitrary to say that that's a life and that's not a life. And it's the tyranny of the discontinuous mind.
SPEAKER_01Um How far can you I mean, again, I'm pushing into areas I've not talked about before, I don't know. I mean, how far do you push that though? I mean, when what do you start saying is this bacteria is you know, what right do you have to wipe out this bacteria from your body with your penicillin? Exactly. Yeah, I I I don't know. I mean maybe that's getting into the realms of the ludicrous, but Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Or you just treat everything as just conditional and only once the the kid has, you know graduated college and can hold a job. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Then then then it's got rights. You know? Once it can contribute to society. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And therefore until then, and actually have adults you wouldn't qualify as goes to so the the discontinuous mind is actually what gives us human rights. The discont you know, the the continuous mind is that everything is a dimmer switch, and things some things are a bit brighter and some things are a bit murkier. But human rights depends on there being a an on or an off. Okay, you're a human being, and I don't care how disabled you are, you deserve protection and provision under the law. That's what human rights depends on. If you've got if you've got the dimmer switch, you're like, well, you're kind of a human being in one sense, but in another sense, you're actually you know more like the chimpanzee, and so I'm not sure. And and and everything is on the dimmer switch. And that's where you get um is it Singer?
SPEAKER_01Is it Peter Singer? Yeah, Peter Singer. Who who would say things that you know, as a Christian, most most atheists and everyone records go, oh my goodness me, this is this is horrific. But consistent with their worldview.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01And actually there's a lot that is not consistent.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And so on the life from non-life thing, I I I do think everyone's got miracles. It's just that Christians have the the far more believable miracles. So on everything from nothing, you know, yeah, we believe in the virgin birth of Jesus, right? But but at least there's a virgin, at least there's a God to bring about that miracle. We believe in order coming from chaos, in that we believe Jesus actually went around planet Earth and he brought order out of chaos and he brought healing to people and he calmed the storm and he and he kind of shepherded this world to the way it should be. But we believe in a miracle maker who can do that. You know, you come away from that and you believe in order from chaos, which is like like on a cosmic level, these miracles. And then thirdly, life from non-life, yeah. I believe that the non-living Jesus on Easter Sunday came to life again. Miracle, sure. But like step away from this story and go to the atheistic story, and they believe that life has come from non-life has stepped out of the the the tomb, you know, and and sprung up and without a god to do it. You know.
SPEAKER_01It's good, yeah. I mean, and that's I think actually pointing calling it the tomb. That's a strong that's that that's a that's a vivid analogy.
SPEAKER_02It's life from the dead.
SPEAKER_01Life from the dead.
SPEAKER_02And that that's important about all these arguments about, you know, because we're making these arguments that the you might think they could be made uh by a theist, a general theist, who just believes in the omnibeing of of Greek philosophy. They can make these arguments too. I don't think that's true, actually. I I think we're talking about Easter miracles. Each and every one of these is an Easter miracle. You know, everything from nothing is a kind of a life from the dead miracle. Order from chaos is a life from the dead miracle. Life coming from non-life is a nice is a life from the dead kind of a miracle. Uh we're talking about a specific God who can do these miracles, and I th I think it's the god of Easter, so man.
SPEAKER_01And then Home Stretch. Home stretch. Number four, minds came from mindless matter. Yeah. So we talk about this or the quote, which is a a great one, um from David Sharmers saying, how does the water of the brain turn into the wine of consciousness?
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01You know, so what what do we say about that one there?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I I think this is the hardest one of them all. And and we are the more we're learning about it, the more difficult the hard problem of consciousness is. Um and and actually it turns people like Thomas Nagel, um, who was a naturalist, who's saying, look, I I just think naturalism is not really tenable anymore. Um how on earth does this two pounds of grey matter actually process the mysteries of the universe and and have an experience of the universe that is not the same as the brain chemistry that's fizzing. You know, I can do a my I can do a brain scan that talks about fire synapses firing, but that is very different to my experience of a yellow tulip. Um, the the brain scan and the experience of the yellow tulip are just like it's water and wine. You know, it's water and wine. Uh but we know a guy who could turn water into wine. So, you know, it's it's kind of and and we believe that God has made us for a rational encounter for a mind-to-mind, face-to-face relationship. Um and so it is therefore it's it's a miracle. Consciousness is a miracle that I am me and I can process the world like I do.
SPEAKER_01Well what do you get people saying in response to that? This site, this the person who just doesn't really he just wants to come back at it. Uh do you get much back coming back on that one?
SPEAKER_02Sometimes they say, well, okay, somebody like Daniel Dennett, uh a philosopher of mind, um, he thinks that s consciousness is just brain chemistry at a just a higher level, and it's just such a complex machine that's going on that that as an epiphenomenon gives us a a sense of consciousness, and we just don't know enough to say it's God. And so and then the then the atheist sort of says, you know, this is just a God of the gaps argument, Glenn. You're you're saying you don't know how brain chemistry leads to consciousness, and so you're just saying God, you know. Um, which is not the way that I'm saying. What I'm saying is when you begin with a God who is um a father, son, and spirit who are in relationship with one another, in which personal consciousness is supreme. When you begin with that, that then makes sense of a world in which we are conscious beings. I'm not trying to argue from brain chemistry up towards a God of the gaps. Yeah, the other way around. It's the other way around. It's the God coming down kind of thing. Um but yeah, so so a a lot of people want to say that it is it is in principle solvable. That even though now we don't know how brain chemistry could lead to consciousness, that's just the bold new frontier of science. And one day we will figure out a totally naturalistic explanation for consciousness.
SPEAKER_01Now that people believe that with no evidence.
SPEAKER_02Boom. Exactly. Exactly. It's a faith position. And isn't and isn't it a scientism of the gaps? Right? Yeah. Isn't it a scientist of the gaps? And I'm sure I'm sure naturalistic science will but people But you've got nothing to back that up at all.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Yeah, it's exactly the same thing.
SPEAKER_02Well, what they'll say is, you know, science has you know a good track record of solving problems. And look at the last three hundred years, and we've solved a lot of problems, and we're gonna solve a lot more, and the onward march of science will dispel the mythologies of of of of Christian dogma.
SPEAKER_01Because we only can progress. We only right. That's all there can be, obviously.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. We never take a backward step. Never take a backward step, and it's always onwards and upwards, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. So there's all sorts of faith commitments there. I'd bet all sorts of faith commitments. Yeah. Um so yeah, lots lots to chew on, but it's uh we've almost done an hour.
SPEAKER_01But good to hear from in the comment I don't know if there are any comments, but uh it's the kind of thing I'd love to hear from scientists who are Christians as to what their experience of some of these. I wonder whether these conversations go on in the lab, you know, at any point. Yeah. Or over lunch in the in the lab. Um probably not in the lab, probably a health and safety maybe. What's this vial? But I'd be interested to know what things Christians who are scientists hear from other scientists when these kind of conversations do arise, if they do. Yeah. Just to know what's it look like on the ground, particularly and not just you know, when you go to a university maybe and you get someone talking back to you about it, I mean you know, they're still st students of it, you know, and where it'd be nice to know what some of the really established people in their fields are saying in the workplaces and I imagine it's a bit like, you know, because a lot of this is not so much about physics as about metaphysics.
SPEAKER_02So it's it's kind of the w what we're talking about is a philosophy of science, which I'm sure like day to day when you're just in the lab doing stuff, doesn't cut you just get on with it, you know. Right, yeah. Does a footballer have a philosophy of football every morning and wrestling through a sausage maker is constantly thinking, Ah, but does it really work? Why why does the sausage meat work? I don't know. You know. So maybe maybe we have better sausages if people did that. Think it through people. Yeah. Think it through you butchers. You butchers. Uh and I mean that with love. Uh good. Should we should we call that a day before we say anything else too stupid? Um That was our live cast for today. And uh in the comments section of uh Facebook, uh you'll have all our links to things like the BBC articles, like the unbelievable podcast, like the thorny question. Um and uh yeah, we'd love to hear what you think. Um so do like us on Facebook and and on Facebook. You know at the top uh you can click on the friends thing or the subscribe thing and you can say see first. Yeah, see first, and then you'll see our stuff first, because otherwise Facebook just buries all our stuff.
SPEAKER_01Facebook's bizarre algorithms that doesn't show you what you want to see, basically.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so maybe do that. And uh if you're listening on the podcast, thank you so much. Why don't you give that a share? Make sure you're subscribed on there, and uh do check us out on Facebook uh or on YouTube, and then you can see this loveliness that I'm pointing to right now.
SPEAKER_01And you don't know what you're missing.
SPEAKER_02You don't know what you're missing.
SPEAKER_01This miraculous faces of creation right here.
SPEAKER_02There's there's the fifth proof for God's existence right there. Or at least for a fallen world. That's it. There has been a fall. Proof positive. Brilliant, and uh next week on our Thorny Questions, we're gonna be thinking about other faiths. Yeah. So we'll start another little mini-series.
SPEAKER_01Gonna be a good one. Good to think about that. Obviously a hot, hot topic all the time, always comes up that kind of stuff.
SPEAKER_02What about other religions? Yep. And uh we'll have a go at that one. But uh, until then, are you ready with the stop button? I'm I can hover.
SPEAKER_01Look at that.
SPEAKER_02We need an outro song. Live cast, live cast. Bye bye for my live cast. Anyway, I've just got a cramp. You better you better be able to do that.
SPEAKER_01You better go when needs medical assistance.