The Speak Life Podcast, sharing Jesus in everyday life. I think we're live. We're live.
SPEAKER_07Stop singing now.
SPEAKER_10Worryingly live.
SPEAKER_07We're definitely live. That's okay. I just want to keep singing. Love us. Love us. Welcome everybody to the live cast. Here we are. We are in the the bottom of All Souls Lang and Place. This is the green room for and there's Paul. We are in the green room of Real Lives, which is a week of outreach that All Souls Lang and Place is doing. And I'm helping out with doing some speaking for eight days, Sunday to Sunday. And yeah, it's been a great uh beginning to the Real Lives Outreach. And uh here with me, Paul Feasy. Uh you were here last night. Uh what happened? What happened last night?
SPEAKER_10Uh last night was uh so well I was gonna say it was their first evening, it's not the first evening really, was it, of their events? Yes. They had one on Sunday night, didn't they? Yep, yeah. Yeah. So they've got their real real lives, real stories, events, and last night they had none other than Mary Berry. Kind of a big deal from the Bake Off. Kind of a big deal, absolutely. Yeah. Um and so yeah, she was here with her son. Does her son come to the church here? Was that no, he goes to church in Oxford. Okay, yeah, so but he knew Rico, didn't he? He Rico Tice, he was interviewing her. Um and yeah, so she was interviewed and um kind of just asked all about her life. Yeah. And we got a little bit about her her faith as well.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Um She's kind of like the queen, isn't she?
SPEAKER_10She's just like Yeah, yeah. Well, we were saying uh last night when we got back to the the the house where I'm staying, um she was a just uh she was a very warm character, actually. She's very likable.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_10Um you never quite know you never know what anyone's gonna be like, do you?
SPEAKER_07But um but you kind of do with her. Like like to meet her, it's kind of like yeah, you the she is kind of blitz spirit personified, like in person. And just like because she did go through the blitz and you know, very matter-of-factly, and uh she had this wonderful story about uh blowing off the Queen, basically. The queen the Queen invites her to come and have lunch. And Mary's like, Oh, I'm I'm afraid I've got another engagement, and and and told Major Phillips I'm I'm afraid I won't be able to make it, and he just didn't understand.
SPEAKER_10But no, I mean you say, I mean, I didn't know what she would be like, 'cause I in a sense I don't know, I I I kind of thought she might be a little bit, you know, straight laced. Right. Um, but actually she wasn't at all. She was a she was a bit of a laugh, really, wasn't she? She's probably you get the sense she's she's probably quite a lot of fun um as a person.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, she totally was. Because she she said she said to Major Phillips uh when he invited her to to be with the Queen that uh yeah, she was always brought up to stick to an engagement that she had, and so you know, she was going to stick to that engagement because I don't know what that engagement was with.
SPEAKER_10I mean, didn't she say that she was doing a demonstration somewhere? And she said people had booked tickets. People had booked tickets, you know, hundred or so people. The Queen can wait. Yeah. What does she do anyway? No. So she was Time on her hands, I thought. Sitting on the throne, twilling her thumbs.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, so and then I got up to speak after Mary Berry, and uh my my basic thing was uh we all love bake-off, but is bake-off icing or is it uh an appetizer? Is it a sideshow or is it a foretaste? And uh and actually, if you're a Christian, it's a foretaste of something even greater that you know Jesus is the bread of life, um, he actually satisfies our our hungers, Jesus is uh the one who reveals to us the personal God, the God of love, you know, that's what we love about Bacoff. We love the personal stories and that sort of thing. And we love that moment of praise in Bacoff where Paul Hollywood kind of sees someone right to the bottom and then praises them to the stars and we punch the air. Don't don't you love that moment, Paul?
SPEAKER_10Or or are you uh Well, I said, do we love the praise moment, or do we get more of a kick out of the moment when it all goes absolutely peak tongue? Yeah, and uh we watch the disaster unfold, you know. I definitely maybe it's my subversive side. I can't help but like watching the disaster unfold.
SPEAKER_07But that says more about you than I than it does about Lake Off.
SPEAKER_10Absolutely, and that's that's why that's why I need Jesus, you know.
SPEAKER_07Paul's a work in progress, people. A cautionary tale. And uh and and we love that praise moment at the end where Paul Hollywood, you know, or Mary Berry, both with piercing blue eyes, um, they actually see you to the bottom, they praise you to the stars, and then at the end of John's Gospel, what do we get? Jesus sort of inviting his failed friends to come and have breakfast with him, and he's the one who's cooking. Isn't that an amazing happily ever after? And so with Jesus you get everything that you love about Bacoff, and that's the future, because if resurrection is the future, then feasting joy is where we are heading. Therefore, Bacoff is not just the icing on the rubble of this world, it is a foretaste of a coming feast. Why don't you join the party? So that's uh that's what we did last night.
SPEAKER_10I have to admit, I did uh when you stood up and you said, you know, we love the things we love about Bacoff. We love pastries and we love people, we love praise, and they all relate to the story of Jesus, and I'm thinking, pastries. Yeah. Like, where's he going with? This is gonna be an interesting one. How's he gonna get in? Come on. But um, yep. Bread of bread. Bread of life. Come on, come on.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, yeah, broken.
SPEAKER_10I think, you know, if we were to quibble, I'm not sure that's pastry, is it? It's fake off. It's something else. It begins with P, though.
SPEAKER_06I had to you know, I had to begin it with P or it wouldn't be a proper talk. Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_10But no, it did work well. And and you know what? I must have you know, I've I've sat through loads of communion services. And of course, there's that moment where it says, you know, this is my body broken for you. But I think last night I think you you put the kind of um brakes on for a second as you mentioned that. And you said this is his body.
SPEAKER_07Imagine the dramatisation.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, that's what you said, dramatisation. And of course, when you see communion, there is a dramatization of that.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_10But I don't think it had ever quite struck me like that the real vision was there of him going, like, this is my body. Everybody, everybody, everybody, you got that, you got that? But whoa! Because you don't really get that in the I mean in the communion service, it is acted out, but it it's not as quite quite as dramatic as probably it was when Jesus stood up and said that. And I didn't go quite grass up before. And I was like, you know, actually, it might be how powerful it would it be in our communion service if we stopped for a second and just went, Yeah.
SPEAKER_07This is the body. Everybody, watch you get in this body. I remember Chris Green at uh at Oak Hill Um Theological College where I where I went. He was he was once lecturing on on communion, and he was uh he was sort of saying, you know, imagine a general is at the dining table, and he was like, you know, here are our forces, and he picked up the salt shaker, you know, and here are the enemy forces, the pepper shaker, and they go there, we go there, here you go there, yeah. And then it's like that where Jesus gets up and he's like, Okay, this is my body, everybody, okay. Bam! You know this is us. Smash him out the way. Smash the slaughter just crumbs everywhere, you know. How amazing. Yeah, so Jesus, yeah, torn apart like bread on the cross, and you know, like bread he rises, you know.
SPEAKER_10So that's why and that's why the puntons had to start to stop at that point, you know, no more.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I well, bake-off is a great kind of punning thing, isn't it? That that that should have been the fourth P. I've just thought. Pastries, people and puns.
SPEAKER_10Jesus. And Jesus is very big on the play on words. Born again or from above. Yeah. You know, that's a classic, isn't it? The wind blows.
SPEAKER_07The wind blows, or is it the spirit? Yeah, he likes he likes a play on words. Yeah, absolutely. Um yeah, if you you swallow a camel, you know, you swallow a camel and strain out a gnat.
SPEAKER_10Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Like in Aramaic, a camel is gamel and a gnat is gamla, and it's just two words switched around. I see. He's actually doing a play on words.
SPEAKER_10There we go.
SPEAKER_07See? So that's a pun.
SPEAKER_10Biblical precedent for puns.
SPEAKER_07It's warranted, people.
SPEAKER_10People will try and stop you, but tell them no, it's biblical.
SPEAKER_07Tell them be more Christ-like. Pun more.
SPEAKER_10It's the most Christ-like form of humour.
SPEAKER_07What is the most Christ-like form of humour? Um, because tomorrow tomorrow I'm going to be doing um some interviews with James Carey. So he's a comedy writer with the BBC, he's written for Miranda, he's written for Milton Jones and uh Bluestone 4 2 and all these different comedies. And we're going to be talking about like how Christ-like humour. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_10Sarcasm? Is that going to because don't we get a bit of sarcasm in the main form? You know, in in doesn't Paul do you know, you know, we're so you're so big and we're so strong. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I mean, the entire like almost half of 2 Corinthians. Like, you've you've got to read it in a sarcastic voice. Like, yeah. Oh, you've you've become kings already, you know, and we're just at the at the end of the of the procession, I guess. Yeah, yeah. You know? It's it's entirely sarcastic.
SPEAKER_10So sarcasm and puns are the most big things.
SPEAKER_07They say it's the lowest form of win. They say sarcastic, but it's not it's not beneath the Lord.
SPEAKER_10No.
SPEAKER_07Right? Job.
SPEAKER_10Job.
SPEAKER_07He shows up to Job and everyone's expecting him to say, There, Job, have a nice sit-down, I'll make you a cup of tea, put your feet up. And it's like, Were you there when I created the heavens and the earth? Tell me if you know. You know. And so, do you know how to how to lead out the stars? No, no, no. I'm all ears, Job. If that's not sarcasm, I don't know what is.
SPEAKER_10Yeah. Great, well, that seems like warrant for sarcasm.
SPEAKER_07Sarcasm like and ridiculing things that need ridiculing. So Elijah. Okay, Elijah with the prophets of Baal. Maybe 1 Kings 18.
SPEAKER_10Maybe your God's gone to the toilet.
SPEAKER_07Maybe your God's gone to the toilet. Maybe he's fallen asleep, guys. Maybe you should rouse him. Like totally. Ridiculing things that are ridiculous is a thoroughly godly thing to do.
SPEAKER_10You know, ridicule ridicules. I guess that's where I've never thought about it. I guess that's where it comes from, isn't it? Is it? Ridiculous. Ridicule. It's ridiculous. Ridicule.
SPEAKER_07It's worthy of ridicule. There are some things that are worthy of ridicule. Sin is worthy of ridicule. You know, those who mock the Lord are worthy of mockery themselves. And you know, Psalm 2, the one enthroned in heaven, laughs. He he mocks at all the crowds. Yeah. So there you go. So stay tuned for some more stuff on biblical comedy and humor. Um, because James and I are gonna um he's obviously done a lot of thinking about this as uh a Christian who works in comedy. Um and uh and we're we're gonna release a whole bunch of stuff about Easter as the great comedy. Um because classically a comedy is is shaped like a smiley face, you go down into the depths and you rise up on high. A tragedy is shaped like a frown, you climb up and you tumble down. Life without Jesus is a tragedy, life with Jesus is a comedy. Um and that's why, like traditionally throughout history, we've we've had these um um Rizus Pascalis. Okay, to use the Latin, which I'm sure Paul is uh now going to translate.
SPEAKER_10Um Rizus type of monkey, isn't it? Um monkey and Pascalis. Yeah, it's a kind of comedian. Joe Pasqualis. Monkey comedian. Yeah, monkey comedian, Joe Pasqualis.
SPEAKER_07Uh yeah, so um it means holy laughter. Oh no, it means Easter laughter, Pascalis, for Pascal. So that was my next guess. Yeah, kid. Benefits of a classical education. So uh yeah, Easter laughter has been this thing, especially in the Orthodox circles. Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodoxy, you get kids up to tell jokes on uh on Easter Sunday because it's the great gag that you've pulled over the devil. He thought he won and actually, you know, he's hoisted on his own petard. You know, the very thing that he thought would bring him victory is actually his downfall. Ha! You know, which again, he's ridiculed in your face. Where o d you know, where o death is your victory, where o grave is your sting. Yeah. It's it's totally. Yeah.
SPEAKER_10So we could have a few jokes at the Easter services, then is what you're saying.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and you know, in Orthodox circles, it's like, you know, the preacher gets up and tells a joke to introduce his sermon, you know, which is like like every evangelical sermon. Unfortunately. Yeah. Unfortunately. It's every lame gag that, you know, evangelical preachers are always, you know, like me, making.
SPEAKER_06But anyway, so that's just just talking about pastries, this guy.
SPEAKER_07Joker. Joker. So, yes, so uh please pray for us at All Souls while we do this real lives outreach. Uh, tonight, um, we've got Tim Farron, erstwhile leader of the Liberal Democrats. Yeah. And he'll be interviewed for about 40 minutes. I imagine that the interviewer will just ask him the same question 17 times. I imagine it'll be like that.
SPEAKER_06Maybe. Um we'll let you know if we get an answer.
SPEAKER_07I'm really looking forward to to meeting Tim Farron. I think you know, I I think he's he's always come across as a guy of great integrity. And um and he yeah, he he's a guy of of deep Christian conviction, and because he's a Christian, he's a liberal. You know, i.e. he wants to stand up for the little little guy and he wants to allow a space of liberty in society for people to have minority views. And what's fascinating is that now it's Christians that are very much holding the minority views, um and and uh the way in which he has been silenced at times um has proven very illiberal. Um often in the name of liberalism. He has he has been silenced or yeah.
SPEAKER_10Do you think that's because liberalism has become something so it was about liberty, right? But now that that is now liberalism itself is is a is a separate entity to that. And actually there's a lot of liberals who are actually not that keen on liberty. No. Um because actually they don't want people to say things. Say the bad thing.
SPEAKER_07You can't say the bad thing on Facebook. And everyone knows that on Facebook. Like you you you self-censor yourself, or you probably should, Paul. Censor yourself and not simply say uh the first thing that comes into your mind. Because because if you say the wrong thing, it just comes back to haunt you and people.
SPEAKER_10Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_07Which is very illiberal. You know, there there are so many things you cannot say now.
SPEAKER_10Well, we talked earlier about just just next to all souls is um BBC. Yep. Well part, I mean I don't know what part of the BBC it is, but a BBC building. They've got a statue of George Orwell outside, which I think is quite new, and is there's a quote there that says true liberty is the right to say um things that that people won't like.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_10That people think are wrong. Right. Um which we thought was slightly ironic anyway. It's a word for the city. Given its placement uh the BBC, but um Yeah, it is a word for our time.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_10But actually a lot of people don't think liberty is the right to say things that you know even other people might think are wrong.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_10But you're only allowed to say the right thing. Yeah. Which is a very narrow thing defined by some group somewhere.
SPEAKER_07And yeah, who who's in charge? It's just a power play, you know. It's just a power play which is thoroughly illiberal. And and you know, as as soon as speech starts to be thought of as violence, you know, it's a microaggression for somebody to say the wrong thing. Yeah. Because it raises my cortisol levels in exactly the same way as if you'd struck me. So let's just treat your words as though it's an act of physical violence. And at that stage, I can put you in prison for assault for for saying things, um, and all in the name of liberty. Right. Yeah, all praise liberty liberty.
SPEAKER_10Enjoy your freedom.
SPEAKER_07Enjoy your freedom from behind the bars. Yeah. So Tim Farron tonight, that'll be that'll be fascinating. I'm gonna be speaking from uh John chapter eight, and uh the truth will set you free. Um which means that we're all liars and slaves.
SPEAKER_10Um that's the message people don't want to hear. There you go, even things people might not want to hear, but you can use your liberty.
SPEAKER_07I'm gonna exhibit and exercise my liberty.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_07To speak the truth, baby. Um so yeah, pray for us uh uh at all souls and and pray for people to to hear the truth and be set free by Jesus. That would be great. Um so that's what's new at uh Speak Life. Um What's news in the world? I mean Snow Mageddon. That's obviously.
SPEAKER_10Yeah. Although, I mean, I kind of feel like Snowmageddon's gone now.
SPEAKER_07Oh, it totally is gone.
SPEAKER_10Because like we had the whole snow thing. So you you know, you we you probably saw if you're on the Speak Life page that we didn't do our live cast last week because I couldn't get to work. Um You were in the Sussex Alps. Oh, is it snowy up there? It's the highest inland town in Sussex, you know, one of uh the UK's Marylands. Um Marylands. Yeah. It I'm it's just a big hill or something. Is that right? Yeah, I don't know. Look it up, Wikipedia. Um a little hill. A little hill. It's a little hill, a Maryland. A Maryland. Because a glen is a little valley. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07So I'm the opposite of a of a Maryland.
SPEAKER_10I thought you were gonna go then, you know. And a valley is much like a smile and go straight back in. And I've got a book out about uh frowns, smiles, comedy. Have I mentioned the book? But no, we were snowed off and I mean I mean it was well where we were. We probably had a good probably good eight inches.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_10You know?
SPEAKER_07Which anyone from like Canada or Scandinavia is just laughing?
SPEAKER_10Yeah. But I mean the the interesting thing is it I mean the thing is we've had all that snow, but now where I live where I live, we've got no water, ironically. So since Saturday we've had no water.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_10Can't you know splushing the toilet with water butts and is that right?
SPEAKER_07Yeah. I don't even know what a butt is. I don't know what Marilyn is, I don't know what a lot of the water is.
SPEAKER_10You know what a water butt is? It collects the water from the no, no, like it the the guttering.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_10The water goes into the guttering and it runs down and the collects in a water butt. You can use it in water your garden. Really? Rain water, you know.
SPEAKER_06You've never seen this before.
SPEAKER_10You've never seen a water.
SPEAKER_06No, I just turn on the tap. I don't think water buttons.
SPEAKER_10Yeah, I used to turn on the tap.
SPEAKER_06Not anymore.
SPEAKER_10You live in the buttons, actually, see, see, I think it's a great example of how we've you know, we can still get water, because half the town's still got water. You know, people can go to people's houses and have a shower. Well, the church has got water and they've said come and fill up and that's fine. Um, but it's amazing when you're on Facebook how quickly people have moved from oh, I haven't got water, to um basically Lord of the Flies. Um you know, here's people so and so saw a woman filling up her boot with 20 bottles of water, you know. So and so, you know, they're only giving us six litres of water for a household when we should have ten litres per billing. And you think, you know, and I live in an area which is, you know, it's quite a nice place, yeah.
SPEAKER_07It's very nice.
SPEAKER_10Um and it's very shocking, or it's not shocking, I'm not surprised by it really, could but how quickly very civilized people don't realise how good they've actually got it. Yeah. I mean it's like it's not like they've got a trek six hours doing it, so they can just go up the road and get some water from someone else. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Um but it is it is like we're we're only like two meals away from anarchy, aren't we? Oh yeah, yeah, it is a bit like that. Yeah, it's a any society, no matter how stable you think it is.
SPEAKER_10And I mean, one guy had posted, because there are lots of people on the different groups for Crowbra saying, you know, come to my house, get some water, or you know, check on neighbours, and that was great. And someone had posted a picture up of someone on one of the selling groups who was selling bottles of water, two litres bottle of water, five pounds, or then ten pounds. Okay, and they're just like, This is humanity, yeah, this is what it has become. You know, like and so I always think it's a great they're gonna be great sermon illustrations down the road, you know. This is the low anthropology right here.
SPEAKER_07See, we see what humanity is really like, and not even you don't want to pay five quid, you don't have to pay five quid, Paul.
SPEAKER_10In us free country. Supply and demand, it's a free country.
SPEAKER_06Capitalism, yeah, trickled, literally trickled down the capital. Literally into your water butt. Man, yeah. Yeah. But um So Snow Mageddon, that's um that's in the news.
SPEAKER_10That's been and gone. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Uh another thing uh that we've wanted to talk about, we wanted to talk about it last week, um, but Snow Mageddon put pay to that. But Black Panther is out, and it's it's causing uh yeah, a real um ruckus. Ruck, I mean people are loving the film, like like j like generally. And uh I got in uh contact with Lyo Abembe, uh who's a friend on Twitter, and uh actually I've been wanting to get her on the show um uh for a little while now, and uh Black Panther seemed like the great opportunity to do that because she loves the film. Uh grew up in Nigeria and she resonates with so much of that story. So uh we've got a uh a little discussion between uh myself and Lyo. And uh I got in contact with Lyo a member. And um and uh yeah, we've we've uh recorded this uh conversation between myself and Lyo, and uh we get into uh stuff about the film, which I found fascinating, um uh really uh as a discussion of colonialism and that sort of thing. Um and race. And uh and we spoke to to uh Lyo as well, not only about the film but about race more generally and uh being a black Christian and what she wishes white Christians knew uh about all this. So why don't we uh get into that interview and then we'll uh discuss it afterwards. So I am here with Lyo Abembe, Wakanda Forever. Brilliant. You have seen uh the latest Marvel film Black Panther. What are your first impressions?
SPEAKER_04Uh yeah, I loved it. I absolutely yeah, I love I love Black Panther. I I'm a I'm a Marvel fan already. I love action movies. Um so yeah, it was brilliant. Um and also obviously being an African, I loved seeing lots of black people represented on the screen, superheroes that look like me.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_04That are also meant, but they look like me and they're amazing.
SPEAKER_07So yeah. So you're African how so like how does that identity work for you? Like, like you were born there, is that right?
SPEAKER_04Yes, I was. I was born in Nigeria and I lived there until I was just about 10 o'clock, 10 years old. 10 o'clock, 10 years old. Um, and I've lived here ever since. So I have my my roots are African. Um and yeah, I've I've I've grown up yeah as a black British person since.
SPEAKER_07So on your Twitter bio, I see uh you've got like like three identities, kind of do you even number them? It's sort of one, two, three. Like number one, you're you're forgiven by God, forgiven child of God, and then you talk about being a black woman. Yeah, is that right? And then number three, you talk about being a sister and uh, you know, uh a friend and that that kind of thing. Talk me talk me through that and why you put the those things in that order.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I think first I say I am a woman forgiven by God, um because yeah, my femininity is a huge part of me. Um it bonds me with a lot of women, um, and forgiven by God because I'm a sinner and Jesus forgave me all my sins, and that is the best news ever. Yeah, the best news. Um second, my ethnicity because so I say my second thing is uh second and ethnicity. Um, I think my ethnic identity is yeah, it's right up there. It's number two. Um uh so people, I believe, well, I I think people we judge one another a lot for good or for bad on what we look like. Sort of our snap judgments are usually on what we look like or where we're from. Where we often find similarity is often from where we're from. So um my African black Britishness is a huge part of who I am. Um, so second, in ethnicity, I think that's really useful for me in serving people in the church as well. Um, it it provides some kind of relatability, um, and yeah, yeah, a point for people to understand. And then third, I call myself a I think a daughter, a sister, a friend, and a colleague. Uh those are my roles in life. Um I'm a daughter, I'm a sister, a friend, and a colleague. I try to do those things well.
SPEAKER_07So as you watched Black Panther, like a big part of you is thinking, well, I am a black woman watching the experience of other black people, and and you're feeling a connection there that's I guess I mean transcends um transcends nation because you know, I guess the black experience of a Haitian versus the black experience of an East African versus the black experience of a West African versus the black experience of a North African versus the experience of someone in East London, um, it's gonna be quite different. And yet you feel there's there's some kind of commonality. What how would you put your finger on the commonality?
SPEAKER_04We know what it is to go through pain. Um, no matter how wealthy we are, we know what it is to have people make snap judgments of us. Um there's also a joy and an optimism that a lot of black people have. Um, yes, there are there are quite a few shared experiences of pain, of optimism. Um, yeah, the black experience, even no matter where you're from, I believe actually, yeah, it does tie a lot of people.
SPEAKER_09Um it seems to be, you know, it seems to be around the world.
SPEAKER_07This this kind of experience of people watching Wakanda, and you know, it's this mythological place, but it also seems to really speak to real places in all sorts of diverse places. Um describe Wakanda to us. For those for those who haven't seen it, we'll we'll try and give a little bit of a shape to the film without giving some spoilers, but but what is Wakanda?
SPEAKER_09Tell us.
SPEAKER_04So Wakanda is hidden in plain sight. I think I can say that. It's hidden in plain sight. So it's a it's a nation that has not been colonized, um, it's not gone through all the ravages that the rest of Africa has, um, because it's just this amazingly technologically advanced country. It has access to a particular thing that that just makes it um vibrant itself.
SPEAKER_09Yes, you know you're in a you know you're in a Marvel film when it's vibrant.
SPEAKER_04Exactly. It has access to bright vibrations, so it's able to protect itself. Um uh so Wakanda keeps a lot of African culture. Um, so a lot of the things that you see, a lot of the dress and a lot of the um a lot of the sort of mannerism that you'll see is and the accent is uh very African, sort of it's it's it's rooted in real Africa. So it keeps a lot of Africa, but it's also technologically advanced, um full of vibrant people. Um yeah, it's it's kind of like a utopia, isn't it? It's like a perfect world.
SPEAKER_07And it kind of goes through these three stages. I I think there's sort of the there's the initial stage of Wakanda is isolationist, and people don't want to let others in, and they certainly don't want to let the cat out of the bag and let the secret out for the rest of the world because they've got a good thing going on. Um, so there's that kind of isolationist phase, and then there's a sort of a second possibility opened up by uh you know one of the challenges to the throne of Wakanda um called Eric Killmonger. So again, you know you're in a Marvel film, somebody is called Killmonger. Um and so here is this guy who actually wants to release the powers of vibranium on the world in order to liberate black people around the world and allow them to turn the tables on their oppressors, and and but really he can't he doesn't care if the world burns, basically. Um he wants to unleash power um in retaliation for some horrible things that have happened to him by the people of Wakanda. So there's that sort of model of how Wakanda should sit in the world, which is kind of the domination model, not the isolationist, but the domination model. And then I guess at the by the end of the film, there's this hopeful third way that Wakanda can share its culture with others and and be a blessing to the nations. Um and I actually I actually found found it quite hopeful and and yeah, quite quite a story really of how um you don't need to just export power. If you've got a dominant culture, you you know, you don't need to export power to the rest of the world.
SPEAKER_09And you know, there's there's a word for the West, and there's the word for colonialism. You don't have to export power, but there is there is a blessing that you can be for others um in the end.
SPEAKER_07And I and although the film is not a Christian film, I I think it does open the door for saying, actually, isn't there a possibility for us to to go to the ends of the earth?
SPEAKER_09And yeah, we don't share the same culture as everybody else, but we have something of positive value to offer to the world and and and a blessing to offer to the nations. What what what was resonating with you as you were watching?
SPEAKER_04I think I I especially really like the fact that the characters in Wakanda were quite complex complex as well. Um so like you said, Killmonger is this guy who just wants to export power to the whole world. But actually, Killmonger had been through some difficult things in his life, try and avoid spoilers. He'd been through some difficult things in his life, yeah. He was very relatable. Like I could relate to Killmonger with some of the experiences that he'd had. Um so yeah, he he he even though he's the yeah, even though he's the baddie, he he's a very relatable baddie. And I think Killmonger is also just a warning to it's kind of he's kind of a warning to us as a Christian. Um so Killmonger is ruined by his choices and by the way he allows the the racism and the oppression and the abandonment of the world to kind of to create well chips on his shoulder, literally. You'll see it if you watch the film. Literal chips on his shoulder.
SPEAKER_08He's very broad shoulders, yes.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so he allows the um he allows the evil of the world to really ruin him. Whereas as a Christian, um, my Bible tells me, you know, the the the offer of sacrifice I am meant to give is to to God, but you know, for in view of the mercy that God has given to me, the offer of sacrifice I'm to bring um uh uh is is living a certain way. So um praying for those who persecute me, loving those who hate me.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. I mean it just reminded me that Martin Luther King, you know, I mean the most famous thing he's probably ever said is you know, it's it's not hate. Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that. And and really what you see with Killmonger is just darkness, darkness, darkness, hate, hate, hate. And uh and thankfully within the film, you you get this third way, this this other option, which which is not exactly the gospel, but it's pointing the way to the gospel, I think. So what do you what do you wish uh especially white Christians would know about the black experience of of of being a Christian?
SPEAKER_09What do you would what do you wish white Christians knew?
SPEAKER_04Um black people not I want to just say African Africans a genuine and increased um an extra sort of we're not a secular secularist, we have a heightened sense of spiritual things, if I'm gonna really generalize. Um yeah, there's a there's still a church background to a lot of young black people. Um even if it was like my my grandma went to church and stuff. Um so if a black person comes into a church, the expectation should be like often that they have real they have a real desire to know God, they have a real seeking for God. Um the the I I think getting people were who who show this real who who um demonstrate this enthusiasm who are coming into church regularly, week after week, um the church should be grabbing these people and teaching them and encouraging them into positions of leadership so that they can. Sadly, I think one of the problems with black culture, even with our our real enthusiasm for God is that a lot of the truth has been um, I mean, we've got liberalism in the white, white sort of western world, but you've got a lot of prosperity gospel and a lot of lies that have been fed to us, usually by the West, usually by the US. But um, but that is pervasive in a lot of cultures. Um so what am I saying? I'm saying that take take those people who are there regularly, teach them so that they can go and teach others, so that they can go and teach other young black people um the word, um um disciple young black people, um be willing to listen to their. I don't understand why you guys just stand still instead of clapping.
SPEAKER_05Do you believe any of this? Yes, do you mind telling your body?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, like exactly. Do you actually exactly exactly like are you smiling? Like, really? Um, do you love just um so yeah, yeah, be patient with that and maybe be willing to bring a bit more sort of hand raising and and stuff into church? Yeah, so so especially our strands of Christianity, I think we're very gospel focused, and that's amazing. But a lot of young black people who come into church can be quite put off by the culture and by the seeming Englishness of it all and the seeming sort of whiteness, I guess, of it all.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, yeah. Because no one thinks they have a culture until they meet somebody else. Like no one thinks they have an accent until someone else speaks of well, that's a funny accent, and they know they they think you speak funny.
SPEAKER_05You know, you got it.
SPEAKER_07We you know, fish fish don't know that they're swimming in water, and none of us unless we're interacting with lots of different people from diverse backgrounds, we just don't understand that we've got a culture.
SPEAKER_09Um I think it's important to say because I think I think a lot of people may maybe maybe white people who are in a like a majority white culture, um, just think, oh, let's let's move beyond race, because didn't Paul say, you know, there is no barbarian or scythian or slave or free for we're all one in Christ. And um, but but I think like Paul's got to like have those categories in mind first before he can you know ever talk about that unity, you know.
SPEAKER_07So how how do we make sure that we have a good conversation about race that ends up saying, hey, you know, in Christ we are we have a unity that that so trumps race it's unbelievable, you know. But but how do we how do we affirm the goodness of our racial distinctions? Because if there wasn't a goodness to it, God wouldn't have made it like this.
SPEAKER_09Um how do we affirm that goodness but also get to a healthy place in which my unity goes far beyond my skin colour?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so we we definitely have to keep first things first. Um I think we we were thinking when we were talking about this about Martin Luther King, how he says um what does he say? He wants people not to be judged by the colour of their skin, but by the content of their character. Right. Um we color let's let's stay away from colour blindness. Like the whole idea of being colourblind is not a real concept, I think. Um again, just because we judge people in what we see, if we think someone's pretty, just prettiness, we judge people just on what we see. So let's let's not pretend that we're blind to people's people's cultures um and people's colours. Um let's celebrate the fact that we're different because that is God. Our God is beautiful, and He made people of different cultures and races. I think these are things that actually embody the gospel. So by celebrating someone's cultural difference, and by saying, you know what, I mean, as long as it doesn't trump the gospel, as long as it's not like child sacrifice or something like that. But as long as um by celebrating someone's culture, you're kind of being recognizing that this is God, this is God, He made something really beautiful. Um, so yeah, yeah, let's not be colourblind, let's let's let's celebrate our cultures. Um let's keep first things first. So Jesus does I think I think actually it's to a great extent recognizing that people are different. So we can start with ethnicity, but you go so much more beyond ethnicity, even I mean, obviously, within ethnicities, people are different in their personalities and in their characters, and often we will clash with one another, we will make, we will disagree with one another. Um, and how do we adorn the gospel? Um, when those types of things happen, it's usually by recognizing you're different to me and saying, Well, I'm a sinner too. Jesus died for my sin. So if he's forgiven me, um I'm gonna chill and I'm gonna forgive you. I'm gonna trust God to mature you and grow you into his image. Um, and that none of that is denying the fact that we're all different. In fact, it's recognizing the fact that we're all different and in uh and living in the glorious challenge that God has given to us. Um so yeah.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, that's really helpful. As you were talking, I was reminded of the you know, the U2 song. Which song is it that where Bono sings, where all the colours bleed into one, bleed into one. Um I still haven't found what I'm looking for, right?
SPEAKER_09And it's it's not a great line, is it? Like, like the great the great hope is not all that all the colours bleed into one, you know. The the great hope is that every tribe, nation, people, and tongue is still there as different tribes, nations, peoples, and tongues.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_09You know, it's uh it's not a it's not a melting pot, it's a fruit salad or whatever. You know, it's it's not we don't bleed into one, but actually the concrete particular you know cultural differences that we have are to be celebrated and part of God's technical kind of design for the world. Um but we have but but like you say, as we keep first things first, then we have you know we have a unity that you know water is thicker than blood, right? The water of baptism is at the end of the day thicker than than the blood of of race. But um man, there's so much work to do in this.
SPEAKER_07But um yeah, thanks for having this conversation with with us so that we can you know hopefully invite other people into the conversation and we can we can uh enjoy enjoy the differences and enjoy even more our unity in Christ.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, thanks. Thanks for also being really willing to talk about it.
SPEAKER_08I'm really good. Of course. Thank you.
SPEAKER_07Oh, are we on now? Yeah, so that was my conversation with Lao Abembe, and uh yeah, I really enjoyed uh talking to her about all sorts of things, um including about Black Panther, because what what I what I loved about the film Black Panther is is this kind of question about how should one culture sit in relationship to another culture. And and what you've got in the film is Wakanda is this isolationist um culture that is very advanced, and then you've got two kind of competing uh ideas about how Wakanda should relate, um, if it's if it's going to relate to the rest of the world. And Eric Kilmunger says it should export its power so that black people can rise up against their oppressors and who cares if the world burns. Or there's this this other option for actually can they export something that is a blessing to the nations? And and that's kind of where the film goes, and so it sort of opens up this possibility. And and I just find that that's um uh a really helpful way of thinking about things, especially when in evangelism. Um I go to universities especially, especially this comes up in universities, and I'll I'll talk about here's um I I might mention that you know Christianity has built the West. And I might I might say, you know, that there are all these things that Christianity's brought to the world in terms of education and hospitals and the modern scientific method, and all these things that have helped us. And then the comeback is always, yeah, but what about conquistadors? What about the ways that the West has exported uh violence to the rest of the world and subjugated places and that sort of thing? And I guess we need to have a conversation about what do we do with cultural differences. Um do we remain isolationist and and should the West have just kept um its brand of Christianity to itself and allowed, you know, Chinese Christianity to flourish in its own way, and Indian Christianity and African Christianity to flourish in its own way? Or is there is there some way of going into a different culture and actually um and and actually blessing it? And I think the the film opens up that possibility and says, you know what, it it doesn't have to be a domination thing, it doesn't have to be a killmonger thing. You know, it could be a um it could be a blessing kind of thing. Uh now, Paul, you were you were with me in in Glasgow, and um I mean that that that issue of colonialism sort of came up quite a bit. Did you did you sort of you don't remember?
SPEAKER_10I think I think you said it came up at St. Andrews. Right, yeah. I don't specifically remember. Maybe someone asked you in person. I don't think it came up from the front, particularly that one. But I remember you mentioned it about St. Andrews. And I was quite surprised actually, because I wouldn't say I've come a I you hear I hear a lot of people, you know, will say, Oh, but what about the terrible things you know Christians have done? Um but never.
SPEAKER_07really reference explicitly like colonialism more just you know yeah crusades like anything in yeah which is a form of colonialism but you know yeah yeah yeah yeah different powers advancing themselves by the sword you know and so that that's that big question you know should we should we advance by the sword Killmonger says yes Jesus says no and computer says no computer says no you know so you know I I often tell the story of uh General Sir Charles Napier who was the he uh led the British forces in uh India under the Raj and so you know um he was uh in in this Indian village and uh a man was um uh had he a man had died and on his funeral pyre they were about to throw the widow um because this was the Hindu practice of Sutti in in which the widow dies with the um uh with the husband and is burnt alive and the c you know the the elders of the community came to to Napier and they said well we have a national custom and our national custom is that the widow dies with the husband and Napier said we've got a national custom and our national custom is if you burn people alive we hang you and then he said you know let each of us act according to our national customs um so you know and he ordered you know gallows to be erected you know for anyone and you know thankfully thankfully the the the widow was not burnt along with her husband and I and I I use that story because I think everyone recognises that this is perhaps a good form of cultural imperialism. Yep you'd be hard pressed to disagree it's it would be hard to make the case that no, no they're cult in their culture that's what they do and who's to say what's right or wrong? Let her burn. That's a really hard position for people to defend.
SPEAKER_10It is it is difficult but I mean ironically I mean no one would defend it but yet people use that kind of argument right every day in in rel in their relativistic worldviews in in the West don't they? Yeah or well who are we to judge? Yeah. You know well you wouldn't like it if they wouldn't have they wouldn't agree with that example but when they're allowed when it's more about you know their own choices to commit their own immoral immorality you know actually suddenly actually you can just make your own decisions and stuff.
SPEAKER_07So if you've got you know if you've got two cultures and here's British culture and here's this particular brand of of of that Hindu culture, you know what is it that stands above both of them and is able to say you know that's wrong. And actually the Napier example is not really that the Napier example is that well he's got an army behind him so he can enforce his thing you know so actually the Napier example is is is that you know he enforces his uh ideals on another culture because he is the stronger power. Ideally what you're able to do is to say that there is something above my culture that is right with a capital R and judges other things as wrong with a capital W. Of course you don't get that without something like Christianity. You don't get that without a God who exists above culture. And so in telling that story I try to you know give an example of we want to be able to call some things wrong and some things right apart from culture and that is a good thing. And actually Black Panther is now another way I think of of of of of talking about that because I can you you can say there is the killmonger way and there is the tachala way and uh let's be more be more tachala that's that's my new evangelistic tip.
SPEAKER_10I think uh if you were telling people be more killmonger it's not a great message generally you kind of lost it at that point. But I mean I said you know unf I think it's unfortunate he was called killmonger. It's just a bad start in life isn't it really you've got limited options when that's your name nominative determinism would say what hope did he have exactly blame the parents yeah well there are many countries where you're not allowed to call your children certain things.
SPEAKER_07Yeah and I wonder if Killmonger's on the list but yeah I don't I think he adopted that name for himself or I think he was after he'd killed a lot of people.
SPEAKER_10Yeah yeah man took it upon himself Michael B.
SPEAKER_07Jordan Wow wow I mean best supporting actor next year we had the we've just had the Oscars it's it's a shoe in it's an absolute shoe in Michael B. Jordan who played Eric Killmonger he will he will get best best supporting actor it's just you heard it here first um hold me to account in in 364 days time. So um the other thing I just wanted to mention about Black Panther is uh Letitia Wright um a brilliant British actress um is uh is terrific in this film and she's a Christian and uh I just wanted to play a couple of clips of her just in interviews sharing her faith in just such a warm and personable way and I thought she gave a a a really good example of what it looks like to simply be a Christian in normal conversation and just to drop in your faith as something that is important to you. And yet it can it comes across not as weird but as as something really attractive and and and desirable. So let's have a look at Letitia on a couple of different programs as she's spoken of of her Christian faith.
SPEAKER_03Letitia you're both you're both so young and you've done so so well. But Letitia you thought about packing all of this in I mean which is really hard to believe when you look that there is your break. Yeah. You look fantastic on screen there but actually there was a stage in your life you thought you know what this is not for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah um I was going through a lot a a a very difficult time in my life and I just needed to take a break um from acting because I really idolized it. So I I came off from it and I went on a journey to um discover God and my relationship with God and I became a Christian and it really just gave me so much love and light in my within myself and so much um I felt secure and I felt um like I didn't need validation from anyone else or from the from from getting a part my happiness wasn't dependent on that it was dependent on my relationship with God.
SPEAKER_01Because as an actress you are judged all the time by by producers yes and by social media have you come back to acting thinking I love my work I love my job but it doesn't define me completely.
SPEAKER_00Exactly and I'm I'm centered in who I am and I'm really grateful. I'm not perfect um especially as a Christian you're not perfect you know but you're walking every day and trying to just stay connected and and yeah it's helped me a lot so I'm really grateful. I was praying before I came out to a later screen test and I felt really strongly in my spirit like this thing about love and light kept popping up like those two words and then Ryan kind of confirmed it he's like hey she's she's real positive you know she's like the light and has like oh my god there's been you know I've been praying about this and then that happened um but working with them man it was a dream come true.
SPEAKER_08The performance that she it just it she just jumps off the screen.
SPEAKER_10But it's still working on me but if you can find inspiration in my work then cool okay but it's even more like just saying what you did welcome each other again so that's Leticia Wright uh adorable isn't she she's just she's just she's just brilliant just so natural just so you know yeah and good to just you know you know we live in a world don't we a society where we very much do define ourselves by various things what we do get our validation from you know our work or our grades or whatever it might be or our looks and so actually it's quite refreshing to hear her come out and say you know she realized you know she realized that her acting was a an idol. Right. Um and kind of to step away from that and then be able to find validation somewhere else and still be able to come back to that. Yeah yeah um but with a completely different outlook on it. Yeah yeah it's just yeah it's just good to hear that really isn't it?
SPEAKER_07So all sorts of things like so mentioning about idolatry and then sense of identity and sense of security and then just just mentioning prayer and just mentioning that I was praying about stuff and and then just the way she handled praise and the way she you know said you know I'm still a work in progress and God is still working on me. And I just thought like all those all those things are like profoundly Christian things but profoundly human things and they came across really um really naturally from her. I just think we can learn from that you know not only if we're you know on the the couch at uh this morning but but just in in general conversation you know in you know idolatry what what have we placed you know in the place of God's you know my sense of identity and security um just dropping in that I've been praying for X, Y, and Z and and dropping in just our vulnerability about what I know my weaknesses and I'm a work in progress and God is working on me. So all really helpful things I think for our own our own uh personal testimony. Um really so finally and uh we shouldn't go over an hour um I I keep on saying we're gonna do a short one this week Paul and uh yeah anyway with the last seven minutes um let's think about um the thorny question that came out last week uh it's our most recent thorny question on what do we do with our doubts.
SPEAKER_10If you haven't seen the video it's in the uh the comments for this live uh this live cast at the moment what do we do with our doubts and Paul the first thing uh that we should do with our doubts is Expect them expect doubts yeah and we talk a bit don't we about how I think often when when we go through periods of doubt it's easy to to feel really negative y you know about ourselves. You think oh I must be you know I must be terrible that I would doubt this. You know what must God think and you know we condemn ourselves and you know I think we just mentioned don't we near the beginning of the video um you know oh no no we mentioned near the end of the video but we we did talk um when we were making the video about you know Thomas um Thomas is never condemned you know he's often the one held up isn't he as the example of doubting Thomas um he's the he's the kind of go-to figure when people talk about doubt but you know there's never a point in that story or in that account there where Thomas is condemned and we mentioned don't we near the end that what does Jesus say to him he says peace. Right which you know again we say don't we that here here's Thomas who doubts um who doubts here's Thomas who doubts God you know he's doubting the Old Testament the prophecies he's doubting um he's doubting his friends he's doubting Christ's own promises of resurrection promises you know I think we say he so he basically doubts pretty much the whole Bible which you would think is is is going to be pretty damn yeah but yet what do you get? You get peace. That is the message that comes across and he's not condemned.
SPEAKER_07Yeah so so we should all expect doubts in any relationship you have faith mixed in with doubt. You know you trust your friend but also there's you know there's question marks you trust your spouse there are question marks and just being on the inside of the relationship doesn't end the questions right you know as soon as I got married to my wife there are all sorts of questions like who raised you what are you doing like who who lives like this? Why would you do that? Why would you do that? And you know and she's got lots of questions for me. Don't you worry about that why would you think that I like lilies? Lilies? I mean you know so questions happen on the inside of the relationship it doesn't you know it doesn't just because you had doubts doesn't mean you should doubt the relationship but then the second thing you should do with your doubts is doubt them. Because every doubt is um expressed from a position of faith. If I'm if I'm doubting this it's because I'm standing on that right so if I doubt i if I say look I can't believe in God because I can't see him it means I'm standing on a firm belief and that firm belief is that unless I can see something it does not exist. So what should I do about my doubt? Maybe I should doubt more. Is it is it is it the case that unless I see something it doesn't exist? Well of course not there's lots of things that I don't see that exist. You know love and logic and you know goodness, truth beauty all these things I rely on on a day-by-day basis and I don't see them and yet I believe them. So maybe I should doubt my beliefs more you know my foundational beliefs.
SPEAKER_10And I think you know that's something we don't necessarily realize we have some of those underlying assumptions. Right. I mean it's often the case that we talk about in evangelism generally with anyone you kind of want to say well hang on a second you want to unpick something they've said and say you know well hang on you've based that on that why do you assume that where what's your foundation for that? Yeah and um yeah so I never really thought about it from that point of view but it it it it is it it's true it's yourself as well. Yeah yeah that we need to question particularly in the case of doubt why do we you know why why do we doubt these things but we feel we probably doubt them because we we feel sure of other things. You know people say that they are you know I I couldn't believe because you know you read all this stuff about miracles and of course it doesn't happen. Right. Well you know okay but you like you say are you sure? So you're sure you're sure that there's no nothing outside of material phenomena that you and actually think about that dependence.
SPEAKER_07What you're depending on is that the the universe operates in this regular fashion in this entirely clockwork fashion like that's an interesting like belief to have isn't it that you think you know you think that there is a rationally ordered, rationally comprehensible order to this universe to this mishmash universe that just exploded exploded out of nothing and whatnot.
SPEAKER_10Examine chaos.
SPEAKER_07Yeah so you doubt the miracle but you're really sure about a universe of order. What right do you have you know GK Cheston has said that um the entire order of things is more improbable than any miracle that could be said to violate it. So look at where you're standing when you have that doubt. And you know some of the other doubts we mentioned is you know I don't trust the Bible because it conflicts with certain modern views. You know well okay what am I standing on? That my s that my particular modern view in the 21st century West is infallible. And by that I'm going to judge the Bible. Am I sure about that? Really? Yeah maybe I should doubt more all those sorts of things. So what do you do with your doubts? Doubt them doubt more and then finally what should I do with my doubts challenge them. And so we had the example of Thomas you know Jesus confronts him with this experience of himself and we might want to be in the Thomas experience and have Jesus say you know check out my wounds and that sort of thing. But actually Jesus goes on to say you know blessed those who have not seen and yet believe and John's gospel says these things are written so that you may believe so put yourself in the way of So we can have that we can have that encounter with Jesus you know albeit in a slightly different way.
SPEAKER_10Yes.
SPEAKER_07And it's actually better that way like because a lot of people say oh I you know if I had a Thomas I'd believe well no you wouldn't you'd believe for about a week and then you'd need another Thomas experience. Right. You know if Jesus walked in here and showed himself I'd be on cloud nine for for maybe ten days you know but then my mates would be like you know they do it with mirrors man. Come on like be wise and within a fortnight I'd need to see him again and then again and then again and then again so he's actually given me you know even when he rises from the dead he takes people to the scriptures he does it in John's gospel he does it in Luke's gospel with the couple on the road to Emmaus you know they don't they don't recognize him through his resurrection appearance they recognize him when he goes through the scriptures and when he breaks bread with them and actually that's what we can continue to do. You know Sunday by Sunday we meet together around God's word we break bread together and it's Jesus's way of meeting Jesus and of conquering those doubts you know he will encounter us through his word and through the sacraments in a in a way that is better than just having a one-off apparition. So put yourself in the way of God's word put yourself in the way of God's people and you know take the bread and the wine and and and actually you'll find that Jesus's way of meeting Jesus actually starts to confront your doubts.
SPEAKER_10Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Brilliant have we done an hour we've done an hour now. Yeah this is another one of our short short uh live casts there next time you want to see the long ones the outtakes anyway thank you so much uh for being with us uh this will be a podcast very soon and we'll uh upload that and and get it where you get your podcasts and uh you can listen in.
SPEAKER_10Uh do like and subscribe to this page Speak Life and you'll get all our content including a whole bunch of Easter videos that are coming out including our Thorny Questions videos including our live cast uh we'll have a Facebook we'll have a YouTube version of this uh video as well that will go up um but uh yeah make some noise on social media uh we kind of we don't like just talking to ourselves and we do like talking to you but we'd like to invite some other people into the conversation yeah yeah and we'll be back next week for another live cast um and Monday night you should have a new Thorny Questions video so next week's on it is Faith the Enemy of Science so if that's uh a kind of topic that um has got you thinking or maybe you've got friends who often raise those kind of objections um or you might find it useful um Monday evening probably about seven o'clock that's normally the the time they're going out next Monday you should be able to get that video and we'll be chatting out about it not here but back in Eastbourne uh next Tuesday permitting permitting if I've not you know died of dehydration not flushing my case who knows what it's gonna be just hope my water butt keeps filling up that's all I can rely on so until next week keep your water butts filled see you next time take care bye