The Speak Life Podcast, sharing Jesus in everyday life.
SPEAKER_09Hello everybody. We have we even have a viewer. Hey viewer. They've just seen the song. I was somebody's one viewer for like ten minutes on a on a Facebook Live on Saturday. And uh it just got to be a little little bit of repartee online.
SPEAKER_08It was nice. Did you not feel the pressure to stay with it? I can't leave. You know, I've got stuff to do, but I can't leave because I'll crush this person.
SPEAKER_09You know, I actually did. And uh and I hope that's translating to pressure on whoever you are. Um We need you. We need you, please. Don't go. Don't go. Uh thank you for joining us. Don't go and uh if you're watching the live cast live, it's Tuesday morning, and we're doing this a little bit early because I have to I have to shuffle on to something else this afternoon, which I'm uh not at liberty to disclose. But uh and if you're listening uh later on Facebook, hello. If you're watching on YouTube, hello. We hope we hope that YouTube will let us on. Um last week's episode is still not up on YouTube because it's scandalous. It is uh too hot for YouTube. Too hot to handle, too cold to hole. Um and because it's got stuff about Jordan Peterson and uh Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Just a bit of copyright issues, really, isn't it?
SPEAKER_09Well, that's what they say. There's dozens of videos about the same. And the fair use policy was designed precisely for this kind of video where we comment on uh on uh yeah, on stuff that's out there in the public domain. But um never mind. We will we will continue our legal battle for the truth. And uh out it comes. And if you're listening on the podcast, uh hello to you. Um you're missing out, obviously, because you get to you get to see this.
SPEAKER_08You don't even know why we're laughing. I'm pointing to our face there. We've got no actual babies here. No.
SPEAKER_09Although we we might actually double our viewers if we did. Why not? Uh we have done podcasts with Ruby and the two before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Never mind. So on the uh live cast today, we are going to be talking about what's new with Speak Life, what's news, and then talking about our big thorny question uh video from uh last night. We uh released the video Why Does God Care About Our Sex Lives? So uh we'll be talking about that uh a little bit. But um, Paul, let us know what is new at Speak Life.
SPEAKER_08Yep, so uh we've mentioned before Mount your Easter book coming out, Divine Comedy Human Tragedy. Yes. And there's gonna be an accompanying video to go with that. And so actually, yesterday we uh scooted off down to King's Church in Eastbourne to use their space uh to do a bit of filming for that, and we had a guy called Daniel uh Yes, Daniel. Daniel Daniel Crook. Daniel Crook, yes. Daniel Crook came. Uh Dan's an animator um and um he's gonna be uh doing some work on this video. So um did we did we get any shots from it in the end? Uh yes. Uh what the we're gonna play here? No, no, we don't have any players. We don't have clips to play. Okay, so so we're working on this video and um it was it was quite an experience really, wasn't it? Because we were working, or Dan was working at least, with proper old old school film, not digital.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, 35mm.
SPEAKER_08So once you'd taken a photo, you couldn't even see what you'd done. No, I know. Just had to look through the little finder and hope for the best. That's right. And you spent a lot of your afternoon basically standing in frozen positions. Yeah.
SPEAKER_09And I forgot how to run. Yeah. I f I've I literally forgot how to walk, because like you ha you have to do about four shots for every pace that you take.
SPEAKER_08It's probably worth saying it's a stop motion type video. So Glenn's walking through a lot of it, and so you had to kind of pose and then move very slightly. Yeah. Wallace and Gromit-esque.
SPEAKER_09Yeah. Um yeah, I did have a kind of a face like Wallace and Gromit as well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_08And you did a skydive even as well, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_09Skydive scene, which you uh The wonders of modern technology. So yeah, look out for uh that Easter video coming up.
SPEAKER_08What's the do we know what the time frame is?
SPEAKER_09I think I asked this last week, but uh I often don't listen to the answers. It would it would be It would be great to get it out in the next two weeks, but uh that's that'll be pushing it back. Probably three weeks. Okay, nice. So not long then? Not long. Not long. Not long in animation terms. So Daniel Crook is doing this animation, he's about to do a feature-length film and uh in Spain. In Spain, and he was like, you know, an animator might might be able to do about five seconds of animation per day, and then even that's got to go off to the colourist and you know have all sorts of polish done to it. But um yeah, it's it's time consuming. Yeah. Yeah. But it'll be worth it. It'll be worth it. So uh so that's what's new at Speak Life. What's news? Um you were you were having a look at um uh last night, the top trending article on on BBC News.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, I just kind of perused through the BBC's most popular articles to see what's going on. And actually the one that left out at me was it was number one last night. It's still in the top ten of BBC's most read, at least as of today, Tuesday.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, the 30th.
SPEAKER_08The 30th of January. Um and it was about Simon Thomas. Um some of you might know Simon Thomas, he's a he was a blue pizza presenter um many years ago. Um and I think he's I'm not sure which channel it is, maybe it's Sky, but he he did I think Premier League football kind of punditry discussion on it on a show there. Um but I think it was near the end of November last year, Simon's uh wife Gemma um was diagnosed with a very kind of aggressive form of leukemia. Um and and she passed away three days after the diagnosis. Wow. Um and Simon was left, I think, with just uh his little boy. I think uh it's just the two of them now. And and this article had just popped up basically um Simon talking about it picked up on a blog Simon had posted um about where he was at, really. And Simon Simon's a Christian, worth saying that, you know, he talks in his blog about being a Christian his whole life. Um and uh we got I mean, just a quote from it here, he talks about the messages he'd received from people, you know, ever since and he he's got messages from all around the world and all kinds of people. And he says the vast majority have been lovely, touching, and really helpful. A few haven't, but the recurring message has been be strong. He says, Now before I go any further, I know the vast majority of people who've said this over the past nine weeks have said it because they care. If they didn't care, they wouldn't bother even to write, but I want it but I want to explain why being strong is so very, very hard and why actually right now I'm anything but strong. And I basically I mean the article just picks up on this idea of um you know of him basically coming out and admitting um it's not as easy as just going, Oh, I'm strong and yes, be strong and keep on keep on going. And he he quoted, I mean he'd he'd been struck by a quote from uh Pete Grieg. Is it Pete Grieg or Greg? I never really understood it. I think it's Greg. Okay, um who is involved with Is it New Wine? I think he's a new wine. With the 24-7 prayer moves, yeah, that's right, yeah, and stuff. Um and I think it was a tweet he'd you know Simon had seen, and and Pete said this when life is tough, they tell you to be strong. Don't be strong, be weak, unclench your fists, don't dare to be vulnerable. Honest weakness takes courage, it affirms our common humanity, deepens friendship, and elicits grace.
SPEAKER_09Wow. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_08And I just thought, you know, it's such a a counter-cultural message, isn't it? You know, and to actually just admit I am weak. And I and and it struck me that it's very much at the heart of the gospel, isn't it? Right. Rather than standing not not not not necessarily always a strength thing, but rather than putting up this front, yeah, you know, we talked about this with hypocrisy, haven't we? Rather than putting on a face to other people, whether you know it's out of grief and just wanting to keep going, or whether it is a more kind of you know, wanting to make yourself look better type thing. Um that gets in the way of coming to God, doesn't it? Yeah. And actually for a lot of people who b become Christians, it sometimes it is an experience where they finally hit that point where they have to say, I'm I'm broken. Yes. I've got nothing. Surrender. Absolutely. Yeah. And I just thought, you know, it's fascinating that that had cropped up at the top of the fees on the BBC News, particularly given that, you know, we're talking about some other stuff today that the BBC has quite happily overlooked, you know, and then people aren't talking about.
SPEAKER_09Um Yeah. And it's it's kind of I mean I mean, one issue is actually they're facing up to death and talking about mortality, which we never do and you know, death happens to other people, out of sight, out of mind. We put our elderly in nursing homes and then they die away from things. We don't let our children go to the funerals because we don't want them to see death. Yeah. And so like no one ever talks about it. And and I think maybe that's why we tend to be so glib in what we say to the grieving, you know, just be strong. You like like only only if you don't really understand grief or have never been around death could you be so glib as to just say, be strong, you know. And I think it also portrays a kind of a theology of glory versus a theology of the cross, which is, you know, what Luther was massively into. What really birthed the Reformation, I think, was Luther's theology of the cross. And I think everything else about justification by faith kind of comes out of this this idea that it's it's not that we ascend to God in our strength, but that God reaches down to us in our weakness. And I think actually a world that doesn't believe in Jesus, um, all it can do is trying to ascend to the top of the hill by its strength and just, you know, something's happened that's wrong, just be strong and soldier on, you know. But if you actually believe in a God who meets you in the valley, then actually the first thing you need to do is be weak, you know. The first thing you need to do is is surrender and realize that you're helpless. Um and so his vulnerability, I think, really beautifully um pictures the gospel in in that way. Um so yeah, check check that out online, Simon Thomas.
SPEAKER_08And his yeah, his blog is at uh where this came from is agreefshared.com. So you can read his stuff there, and I I guess um he he's got more stuff there as well, sharing his kind of story as it as it unfolds, really.
SPEAKER_09Um has been Larry Nasser, who was a doctor, um who was uh the doctor for uh USA gymnastics and uh right at the heart of um a kind of a dream team for for USA gymnastics. And it now comes to light that uh he had abused about two hundred women, uh around about two hundred have have come forward. And this week he was sentenced to between forty and a hundred and seventy-five years uh for sexually assaulting uh um over a hundred women. Um and that's in addition to I think there were child pornography charges back in December as well. So um he is uh well and truly locked up. This well and truly is a life sentence um for this serial abuser. And um uh one of the reasons it came up in my Facebook feed um was um the the victim impact statements that have been made, and there was a whole week of over a hundred victim impact statements. Um and so, yeah, Larry had to sit there in the dock and hearing it's about 157 women, I think, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_08One by one.
SPEAKER_09Wow.
SPEAKER_08Testified, spoke to him.
SPEAKER_09And should we should we get some of the a sense of some of those victim impact statements? We've got we've got clip number one uh that has a little compilation of some of those victim impact statements.
SPEAKER_02At Larry Nassar when I was somewhere around the age of five years old. My parents had become close friends with Larry and his wife Stephanie. It was during this time, I estimate I was approximately six years old, that Larry Nassar began to sexually abuse me. Perhaps you have figured it out by now, but little girls don't stay little forever. They grow into strong women that return to destroy your world. I am no longer broken by you. Every day I grow a new strength and look into the mirror to see a strong, unbreakable person.
SPEAKER_11You made me believe that you were my friend. You deceived me, you manipulated me, and you abused me.
SPEAKER_12I truly believe that you're the spawn of Satan. You're a pathetic monster that is only sorry you got caught. I'm here today with all these other women, not victims, but survivors, to tell you face to face that your days of manipulation are over.
SPEAKER_00In um 2009, she took her own life because she couldn't deal with the pain anymore. And every day I miss her. Every day. And it all started with him.
SPEAKER_05How could I have been so naive? How could a person that I thought to be so genuine and kind and caring be in fact the opposite? I will never understand.
SPEAKER_07Larry, you do realize now that we, this group of women you so heartlessly abused over such a long period of time, are now a force and you are nothing. The tables have turned, Larry. We are here, we have our voices, and we are not going anywhere.
SPEAKER_04My last treatment was in August 2016. A week later, he was let go by MSU. I'm possibly the last child he will ever assault. MSU Sports Medicine charged me for those appointments. My mom is still getting billed for appointments where I was sexually assaulted. I have never wanted to hate some in my life. But my hate towards you is uncontrollable. Larry Nasser, I hate you.
SPEAKER_09So yeah. And uh a week of that, and uh but of course, decades before that, of Larry inflicting that on on so many uh different young girls, very vulnerable girls. And what's shocking, well, one of the many things that's that's so shocking is that here's this abuse that's gone on for so many years, um, and then there are no consequences, seemingly, for Larry Nassau. You know, the the story doesn't break until last year and and Rachel Den Hollander um you know comes out and and breaks the story. But just the the the potential that such evil can go on and be covered up and normalized and you know justified uh for so many decades. I mean that's that's just an absolute horror. Um and so it all of this all of this anger um and yeah, righteous anger, and and you know, totally totally biblical. You could you could um you could go to Matthew chapter 18 where Jesus says, if any of you um you know, if if if any of you cause one of these little ones to stumble, it would be better if a millstone was, you know, hung around your neck and you were cast into the deepest sea, you know. Jesus says that about those who uh uh abuse and um and so d yeah, all these all these victim impact statements, um they don't in in one sense they don't even go up far enough. Um in in terms of the anger that God has for such abuse. Um but that's why I think it was just so remarkable Rachel Dan Hollander's um final victim impact statement. Um she's a Christian woman. She was the first to break the story um in 2016, and she was the last to give her victim impact story at the end of a whole week. And just a stunning, a stunning application of both law and gospel, the judgment of God and the mercy for those who repent. And uh and perhaps we should see just a clip from that, Andy, and we'll taste and see the difference. Uh a few different people are commenting here. Uh broadcast interrupted said Lucy, and then she says, ah, there you are. So problem and then problem solved. So uh who else? Dennis Jackson. I'm very, very sorry that um actually on my computer I can only see like four comments at a time, and I have no way of seeing any more comments than that. But uh Dennis is asking if I'm going to respond to comments, and yes, I am. I'm going to try anyway. That's very meta happening as it happens. Yeah, Ben Miles says, Vulnerability is strength. Important lesson for men in particular. I lost my wife suddenly 18 months ago, and being vulnerable meant I could be loved by the church. Uh, referring back to the Simon Thomas uh comment. Brilliant. And it sounds like we've got Rachel Denhollander, so let's watch her victim impact statement.
SPEAKER_03You have become a man ruled by selfish and perverted desires, a man defined by his daily choices over and over again to feed that selfishness and perversion. You chose to pursue your wickedness no matter what it cost others. And the opposite of what you have done is for me to choose to love sacrificially, no matter what it costs me. In our early hearings, you brought your Bible into the courtroom, and you have spoken and claim for forgiveness. And so it is on that basis that I appeal to you. If you have read the Bible you carry, you know that the definition of sacrificial love portrayed is of God Himself loving so sacrificially, that he gave up everything to pay a penalty for the sin who did not commit. By his grace, I too keep still left this way. You still betray for forgiveness. But Larry, if you have read the Bible you carry, you know forgiveness does not come from doing good things. As if good deeds can erase what you have done. It comes from repentance, which requires facing and acknowledging the truth about what you have done in all of its utter depravity and horror, without mitigation, without excuse, without acting, as if good deeds can erase what you have seen in this courtroom today. The Bible you carry says it is better for a milk stone to be thrown around your neck and be thrown into a lake than we could make even one child stumble. And you have damaged hundreds. The Bible you speak carries up its final judgment where all of God's wrath and its eternal terror is poured out on men like you. Should you ever reach the point of truly facing what you have done, the guilt will be crushing. And that is what makes the gospel of Christ so sweet. Because it extends grace and hope and mercy where it not should be for God. And it will be there for you. I pray you experience the soul-crushing weight of guilt so that you may someday experience true repentance and true forgiveness from God, which you need far more than forgiveness for me. Though I expect that to you as well. This is what we need to learn. Look around the courtroom. Remember what you have witnessed these past seven days. This is what it looks like when someone chooses to put their selfish desires above the safety and love for those around them. And let it be a warning to us all. And moving forward as a society, this is what it looks like. When the adults in authority do not respond properly to disclosures of sexual assault. This is what it looks like when institutions create a culture where a predator can flourish unafraid and unabated. And this is what it looks like when people in authority refuse to listen, put friendships in front of the truth, fail to create or enforce proper policy, and fail to hold enablers accountable. This is what it looks like.
SPEAKER_09So there is I mean so much to comment on there. But I mean what one thing that really came across to me was this whole law and gospel thing. That she went hard on law and then offered this extraordinary gospel. That she's I pray that you will experience the soul-crushing, you know, reality of your sin, you know, and and God's wrath will be poured out on you. I pray that you know that. But there is grace for you.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, and I th I mean I think some people don't know uh sometimes people think forgiveness i i i it's it's another word for just excusing what people have done. Right. You know, that there'd be no consequence.
SPEAKER_09Yeah.
SPEAKER_08But of course, you know, uh I mean we see there, I mean she like you say she doesn't she doesn't hold back on Affirming. I mean I don't I don't think it was on that clip, but she goes on to say I mean uh where she says I can call what you did evil and wicked because it was and she says, you know, and I know what evil and wicked is because there's a straight line. So she's quoted C. S. Lewis and she's talking about that and and how, you know, because of God we know there is this merit. Right. Right and wrong.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, if we think there's a crooked line, because we're judging it against a straight line. God is a straight line. Yeah. So this is evil, but we know it's evil. We know it we know it's not just one person's perverted sexual choice. Right, we know that, but we can only know that if there's a straight line. Yeah. God provides a straight line and and she brings that judgment to bear, and then on the far side of that says, and if you turn in repentance, there is grace for you.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, and I mean I just wondered, you know, uh uh it not struck me until I was just watching it again there. You know, as she says as she says that you know, that this will be there for you, you know, I offer you this. It just struck me, I wonder what's going what goes through the heads of the other women in that room. Right. You know, because as we've watched those other comments from them, I mean absolutely understandable but what struck me from it and it's not something just specifically of this case, but in from other events in life is that uh what what it seemed that a lot of them are left with is just hatred and anger. Right. And will him going will him going to jail for 175 years really do anything about that? You know, we're you know, people talk, don't they, about uh you know, r that that that feeling of getting the you know, the revenge being done, the justice kind Um But is that enough? Right. Is that is that you know just him going down like that? Because th you know those women uh are still obviously hurting and in great pain. And what strikes me about Rachel Den Hollander is that I'm not not saying she obviously didn't find that difficult but but she seems in a very different place to be not to be able just to even to offer that, to offer forgiveness, that actually there's a freedom in not just for the other person who you offer forgiveness to, but actually when you forgive someone you you release something for yourself as well. I mean I mean I think there's a couple people I know and who've got very bad relationships with parents and and actually you know the the person who's got the rel you know the problem with their their parent that they've it eats them up more than it eats the parent up. Right. You know. Yes. Um and the parent has kind of made their peace and tried to offer forgiveness and stuff.
SPEAKER_09But yeah, it's that old thing of you know bearing a grudge is like drinking poison and hoping the other person chokes, you know, the the th that kind of thing. Now and and I wonder though, i whether Rachel Denhollander's Christian beliefs allow her to say, well, God says vengeance is mine, I will repay. That that actually her belief in vengeance, and and clearly Rachel has a b a belief in divine, you know, retributive vengeance, it enables her to forgive. Which is interesting, because it often people say, Ah no, you know, we need to move beyond this idea of a retributive justice to God and all that sort of stuff, because that's back in the dark ages. But no, actually, she is able to be in possession of herself and offer grace and mercy purely because vengeance in my is mine, I will repay, says the Lord. And she's like, Well, okay, you'll do a better job of it than we will. Therefore, I can pity Larry Nasser, which is uh stunningly, she said many, many times in her victim impact statement, I pity you, I pity you, I pity you. Which kind of it reminded me of um the old biblical prophets um when they use the word the woe, you know, woe to you, Assyria, woe to you, Babylon. And actually you could translate that, you know, I pity you, but it's also like you're being judged, but I pity you. It's almost the sort of I wouldn't want to be in your shoes sort of thing. And I think now, whenever I read about biblical woes, I'm gonna think of Rachel Dan Hollander, the this woe to you, Larry Nasser. I pity you, I wouldn't want to be in your shoes, you uh you have done such evil uh that is damnable. And yet it's all that going on together at once. It's it's interesting. Um last night I had uh a conversation with uh Abby Speer, um who uh is a gymnast and a gymnastics coach as well, uh, who's really been following uh this story. And I just thought I'd get her angle on it uh as a gymnast and as someone who knows all these very high-profile people who've come out um uh in in the press about this. So uh Andy, why don't you uh play to us that interview that we did last night?
SPEAKER_06The first I heard of it was Michaela Moroney, who was in the 2012 Olympic team. She was this like outstanding Volta, like no one had seen anything like her before. Um so she kind of grew to fame through that. And she shared, it was during the Me Too hashtag time, she shared a Me Too and came out with it. Um and it turned out that she'd actually come out with it like a year or so before, and USA Gymnastics had paid her off to stay silent, they'd paid her like a million or something to not bring it to public eye. Um, but then she very bravely went back on that and did bring it to public eye. And yeah, that's when I first heard about it.
SPEAKER_09Yeah. And it just really brings home, doesn't it, that the almost always when there are abusers, there are enablers around the scene. Like just and I guess that just completely disrupts your faith in like a whole system. And there were something like 160 witness statements or something like that, or witness impact statements uh on him. Did you manage to see any of those?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I've seen a few. I've seen a few. Um so I saw the two two from other Olympians that were on the same team as Michaela Moroni. I saw Jordan Weaver and Ali Raiseman's witness statements. That was all sort of coming off my news feed. Um, and then I when you shared it actually, um, saw the Rachel Den Hollander one and yeah.
SPEAKER_09Different.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_09Different from the others, wasn't it? Because so many of the others you quite rightly and you completely understood it. It was just like, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you with everything within me. You're a small man, you're going down forever, bye-bye forever. Um and yet what like how would you describe Rachel Den Hollander's kind of statement? It was it was out of this world, really.
SPEAKER_06It was out of this world. It was it was just as solid on the like severity and terrificness of the situation of the others. Almost even more so because she was so calm and just stated the facts and just stated what was going on, and there was no kind of I hate you. It was just she was just being so yeah, I don't know, like somehow steady. I was like, How are you so steady? Like I felt so like watching it. Um, but then in kind of contrast to that, I don't know, not contrast, I don't even know what it is.
SPEAKER_09Um as well as that.
SPEAKER_06As well as that, she kind of called him up on his reference to saying that he's been praying for forgiveness and um praying to God, and she spoke to him of if you've read this Bible that you're swearing on, and if you are praying to this God and if you believe in this god, like I I hope you mean it. And she she was really clear and it felt really honest that she wanted him to really understand his sin. I think the impression she gave was that he didn't really understand what he'd done.
SPEAKER_10Right.
SPEAKER_06She was like, I want you to feel the guilt, and I want you to be crushed by the weight of your guilt so that you understand how horrific it is. Um and I want that to bring you to Jesus and what he's done for you, and and she was so she had so much assurance in saying, like, and he will be there and he will forgive. Yeah, yeah. And he was like an enthro, and through his grace, like I also offer that out to you. Wow.
SPEAKER_09Um and she was so calm and but steel, like there is there is a steel in her bones.
SPEAKER_06Yes, yeah, steel is a great word.
SPEAKER_09Now that he's been sentenced, like I wonder what the lessons are that we can learn moving forwards from this. What do you think?
SPEAKER_06I think the main thing that I think will come out of this um is hopefully more integrity over protocol and like listening to witnesses and not hiding things. Um it's terrifying. It's terrifying how many people knew and like how many how many people like how how did no one take this further? Who was letting this happen? Why were they letting it happen? So many of the witnesses have been like, I don't even know who's actually treating me. How did how did he get through on this like charm and intelligence that made everyone trust and love him to the point where other adults trusted him so much that they believed him over helpless children?
SPEAKER_10Right.
SPEAKER_06Um but then I think what that leads on to, and what I hope and this is something Rachel spoke about in her statement as well. I hope it makes people think about is like what we want and what like feels good in whatever context doesn't mean it is good. Like the Bible talks about like the heart is deceitful above all things, and I think this is like a really like vivid, extreme example of that. Um I hope that I hope that people see that that happens on a smaller scale as well, and that it's we all do that, not not to necessarily the extent well definitely not to the extent that he did, but yeah, we do trust our feelings in what feels good, and society actually encourages that. Society encourages to do what feels good, right? And something she spoke about was like this like a bar of like she knows what's right and wrong, and actually, in him like not understanding what's wrong, he can't ever enjoy what's good and right. Um and I feel like our society doesn't want that bar there.
SPEAKER_09Right, right.
SPEAKER_06I don't know, that's that was something.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, yeah. I wonder if we we got to see the goodness of judgment as well in this trial. Um, and people, I mean people were applauding the sentence and just you're standing in ovations after all the witness statements and yeah, massive applause after the judgment. Um judgment's a good thing.
SPEAKER_10Judgment is a good thing.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, yeah. But the even greater hope, as Rachel Den Hollander was offering, is is yeah, the mercy that's available through Christ. So yeah, let's pray that people uh receive that too.
SPEAKER_06Yes, definitely.
SPEAKER_09Brennan, well, thank you so much, Abby, for spending some time and and uh talking to us uh on on the link. Yeah, a pleasure. People can check you out at uh Abby Spear Soprano on YouTube. Yeah, and uh yeah, catch up with all your shenanigans.
SPEAKER_06Shenanigans.
SPEAKER_09Awesome. Brennan, thanks so much.
SPEAKER_06Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_09No worries. God bless. So that's Abby Spear. Uh Abby Spear Soprano on YouTube, she's an actual vlogger, an actual proper vlogger, and an actual proper proper soprano as well, classically trained and everything. Um and an all-around good egg. So I found it interesting to to get her perspective because like for her, when um people like Michaela Moroni came out, like that was that meant something, you know? Like, I I don't know who these gymnasts are, I don't I don't follow gymnastics, but for a gymnastics fan, it was just amazing that that here are these like amazing stars, and then you realize, oh my goodness, they're being you know abused behind closed doors. And you just think, like, could you imagine like with footballers, you know, you follow like these amazing footballers, and like five of them you realise have been like sexually abused by the coach or it was something like that.
SPEAKER_08When didn't that come out not long ago? There was a a case of of that. I I don't I don't really follow football, so I don't know. But that that did come out. There was a coach who had coached uh kind of well in in the youth teams, I think. Right. Yeah. Maybe maybe people know a bit more about it, but uh so it's a similar thing, but not on that scale. Yeah, not uh I don't think it was on that scale at least. Certainly not made you know in the public eye quite as much as that has been um there. Yeah. I mean the thing uh thing Abby said that struck me was that this this this thing in our society of we've got there is this morality of you just do what you feel. Right. And actually where has it led us? Right. Right. But you know, is it the case we do what we feel, do what you feel oh until you know, actually no, we do want to put these limits on it. And I think it's just a massive inconsistency in society as to you know what we want to be like other people to be like. I mean, you know, there's the question in our video, why does what does God care about my sex life? Right. Well clearly we we all care as we say in the video, we all care about people's sex lives. Yeah. Because actually there's plenty of limits we do want to put on sex. You know, Andrew Wilson talks about it, doesn't he? Yes. You know, we we might say what other people get up to, none of my business. But you know, he said if I turn around and tell you I'm sleeping with a 13-year-old girl or with my sister or my mother, you'll have something to say about it. You know, and actually we do put these things on it, but actually everyone cares. Yeah. Everyone does care. Yeah, yeah. But then there is also this message of do what you feel. Right.
SPEAKER_09You know. Yeah, exactly, which is where the Me Too campaign starts to make you think, oh, okay, sex is a really dangerous thing. We need a a proper context for it. Yep, absolutely. Um and this was kind of the the the theme that we took for our Thorny Question video, uh, which we had a look at uh last night. We released our Thorny Question, uh why does God care who we sleep with, or why does God care about our sex lives? And uh Andy, why don't you roll a little clip of that and then we'll discuss some of this.
SPEAKER_08Why does God care about my sex life?
SPEAKER_01Richard Dawkins once said, You could possibly persuade me that there was some kind of creative force in the universe, but that is radically and fundamentally incompatible with the sort of God who cares about sin, the sort of God who cares about what you do with your genitals.
SPEAKER_08Maybe God exists, but why should he care about your sex life?
SPEAKER_09Well, actually, everyone cares about your sex life. Everyone. What I do with my genitals, as Richard Dawkins puts it, really is very important. I mean, do I have to name him who must not be named? Sex is hugely significant and dangerous and wonderful. It's holy fire, and we should care about how it's used. But here's the question: what is the best context for sex? What beliefs and practices provide the most meaningful and the most secure framework for this holy fire? Last week we outlined the Bible's five foundations for its views on sex. Here we are going to contrast that with the secular view and ask which provides the best framework? The Bible says God is love.
SPEAKER_08There is a flow to the living God, a shape. Three distinct persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, eternally united in a relationship with the world. So we'll get into that in the secular view, too.
SPEAKER_09Um So that's how we begin it with sex is this holy fire thing. So what's what is the right context for sex to be put within? Um and we say that the Biblical Foundation is like this brick fire pit um that is very substantial, and you know, you can't get into the brick fire pit or out of the brick fire pit very easily. Um it's a very solid, robust thing. Uh the secular thing has very few walls, it's much flimsier, um yeah, sexual. Easy to get out of hand and cause incredible damage. It's more like the cardboard the cardboard fire pit.
SPEAKER_08Absolutely, yeah. And that's what we've seen, you know. We have with the picture there comes up, doesn't it, of Harvey Harvey Weinstein. Yeah. And you know, we're just seeing how this stuff has unfolded into that or kind of you know got out of control.
SPEAKER_09Yes. So yeah, go on.
SPEAKER_08I was gonna say though, you know, I wonder, and and it's something off the back of what Rachel Denholder said, and also think about Harvey Weinstein. We look at people like Larry Nasser, we look at people like Harvey Weinstein, and we go look at these these monsters, you know, these terrible people, and it's like we are there's us, and we might say we're not perfect, but then there are these people, right. They're over there, they're the monsters, they're real, you know, terrible people. Then there's something other than us. Right. And what struck me from what Rachel Denhon said, I think on the clip we showed it was probably the first thing she said. I think we came in at that point, she said about Larry Nassau, you've become a man ruled by selfish and perverted desires, a man defined by his daily choices repeatedly to feed that selfishness and perversion. And what stuck out me there was the fact that she said he's a man ruled by these things. And it struck me that um and I think we've said it in some of our videos actually something like the hashtag me too thing is very apt, you know, from a Christian perspective. Because actually we should all be saying, not just me too in the sense of being a victim. Being a victim, but being a a perpetrator, you know. Um that actually all of us have these selfish and perverted desires. It's not like, you know, uh again the Christian is not the person who has got it sorted, and then there's the wicked people over there. Right. All of us, you know, Jesus is the only person who ever got the sexual stuff right and lived it perfectly. Um and but these cases are an example of what happens when someone allows these desires not just to be there inside but to actually go full pelt and take over. I mean you said I think earlier on when we talk about it, this is a the these guys are just us with the handbrake off. Yeah. You know. And I think the the question I want to think from an evangelistic point of view, just talking to people about sin, you know, people say I'm not like that 'cause I don't do those things. The thing I want to think more about is our being. Right. You know, the issue, yes, you may not have done the Larry Nasser things, you may not have done the Harvey Weinstein things, but actually these things are in us. Yeah, yeah. And yes, we might keep the handbrake on. Yeah. But what does that say about us? Right. You know, that that there's that's in there in the first place.
SPEAKER_09And isn't it interesting that the first thing that he got done for was porn? Right. Right. You know, he was sort of convicted for that, and then it turns out that there's the the there's a deeper le level to the seller. Sure, but what what he ha what he more than dabbled in was what w what he absolutely plunged himself into is what men almost universally dabble in in the in our culture today. And you're like, you know.
SPEAKER_08So the Me Too hashtag, yeah, has without wanting to denigrate that hashtag and try and usurp it for some other reason, but um because I think there were a couple of guys who started using it and said, you know, um I c I tried to look it up, I couldn't find it, but a guy was I remember distinctly one guy using the hashtag and basically saying me too as a perpetrator, not you know, not to the level of a Harvey Weinstein, but you know, he's saying I realize there are things in my life where I've you know I've done these things without really thinking about it.
SPEAKER_09Yeah. We all misuse sex, money, and power and just in different ways and different proportions and yeah, yeah. So what are the the these five foundations? We'll go through them quickly because we won't we want to be done by by eleven, but let's um let's think about these five foundations that we've identified to the Christian sexual ethic. Um number one, God is love. You know, there's a flow to the living God, Father, Son, and Spirit united together in love, which means the ultimate reality is love. The secular alternative to that, you can't, unless you have that Christian foundation, you have to have yeah, you have to say that ultimate reality is power. Maybe it's you know laws of physics, maybe it's biological necessity or something. No, but it's gotta be power that is calling the shots. And so, just with that that first foundation, we're just wanting to say that actually every step you take away from the Christian foundation, you're taking a step away from love, you know, and and d do you really want to take that step? So that that's foundation one. What was foundation two, Paul?
SPEAKER_08Uh foundation number two is that history is a love story. So we just say we were talking in the video about how uh all through the the Bible, not just in the the man and woman story, right, you know, marriage, uh that in itself is a picture of a bigger reality of this this marriage between heaven and earth. I think I think we talk, I'm not sure I don't know if it came up in the video, but we've definitely talked about the masculine and feminine imagery, yeah, yeah, yeah. Heaven and earth being united together, um Christ and the church, you know, the Bible uh begins with this marriage of heaven and earth, it ends with the marriage of heaven and there's this kind of U-shape, yeah, isn't there of the fall, and then back up to this point, yeah. Marriage again begins with a marriage, ends with a marriage. Yeah. Um and I mean the the amazing thing is that you know the Adam and Eve's the the marriage verses there about which are pointing us to Christ being united to the church, come even before the fall. Right. Ooh, that'll twist your mellow.
SPEAKER_09Incredible Adam goes down into a death like sleep, has his side pierced, and then he's raised up to be you know united to his bride even before sin comes into the world. Yeah, yeah. Uh but on the other side of things, the secular worldview is that well, history is up for grabs, basically. And once again, it'll be the powerful that take hold of history and direct it to their own ends. If if there's not a God of love who's directing history towards this great romance, then history is the blank canvas and the strong will take up the pen and they will start writing. Um so again, every step you take away from the Christian view is a step away from a love and uh uh and a step towards power ruling the roost. Do we do we really want to do that? Um third foundation, gender is a gift. Um and like there's there's all sorts of complicated cases that you can make uh about you know what what about this um genetic condition, what about this biological reality? Um but overall there is this male and female duality to humanity, and and it's a gift to be received. You know, I'm a man, and just as someone might give me a gift of like a book of French poetry, I'm like, I don't really like French poetry. But if the person knows me and loves me and they say, No, you know, this seriously, keep reading, struggle through, and after the first three poems, I'm like, Oh, I'm getting into this, I can kind of yeah, okay. And it it's a gift, you know. My gender is a gift, and I everybody struggles with their gender identity, everybody. Um but there's something good about receiving it as a gift and growing into it. Um I think the modern view is that it's more like a gift token, you know. And if someone gives you a book voucher rather than a book, they don't know you. They clearly don't know you. They don't, you know. And and and then it's all on me. I need to go to Waterstones and I need to there's a bewildering aw array of, you know, books to pull off the shelf and and okay, I'll expend it in this kind of way. And that that tends to be where we're going with gender, that gender's just a gift token. And you can use it to be this gender, that gender, that gender, that gender, you know, and a bewildering aw array. And then actually it's quite liberating to say gender is a gift given to you by God to grow into.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, no, absolutely. Number four, what's number four? Which our bodies are temples, um and I think you know, we often today we we think about sex and uh as and our bodies just as that this kind of purely physical thing that happens, um and like that and that that's it, there's no there's nothing more. But I mean as we mention, you know, when when someone you know sleeps with someone or they're all there there's there's some kind of um I'm already gonna use the word violation. Right. You know, that I I I want to use the word violation. Yeah. I mean that's the kind of language we use about you know when stuff goes wrong sexually, yeah you know, whether it's rape or abuse, those kind of things, we say it is it's a violation. It's not just oh it's just it's just a physical thing. Right. Um we know even if we don't affirm this in our everyday life, we we know there's something about our bodies which is sacred to that is you know that our bodies are these these temples. Yes. Even if that's not the language you might use. Yes.
SPEAKER_09Um like with the gymnastic example, if a coach might make a little girl do a somersault she doesn't want to do, but that's different from Larry Nassa making us do something sexually she doesn't want to do. Sure. And we know there's a massive distinction between those two things. You know, there's there's something there's something sacred about it.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, I mean and I mean even if even if even if someone was exercising someone and pushing them to a level that you could call abusive, you still wouldn't talk about it in the same way. You wouldn't have to do it. We know it's different. You you you just would not call it the same things.
SPEAKER_09Yeah.
SPEAKER_08Um yeah, you're right.
SPEAKER_09We know it's different. Therefore it's a sacred thing. Therefore, we need a strong foundation. And the fifth foundation is that sex is proclamation. It's not just procreation or recreation, it's actually telling us something about God so that in the biblical vision, when husband and wife have sex, they are actually proclaiming a love that has predated and produced the universe, a love that is connected to the stars, connected to the life of the Trinity, the the flow of all history, you know, it's it's a beautiful thing, right? Yeah. Step away from the Christian vision for sex, and yeah, it's procreation, it's recreation, you know, and and it can be meaningful recreation, but it's it's not deeper than that. And so I guess what we're trying to do is with all these foundations is just to say that every step away from the Christian vision is a step away from love and towards power and self self-fulfilment, you know. It's it's a step away from self-givingness and a step towards self-fulfilment, selfishness. Um so you know, when we see the way that sex goes wrong, can we take the holy fire out of the cardboard fire pit and put it somewhere a little bit more secure? Where God is love, history is a love story, gender's a gift, our bodies are temples, and sex is proclamation. That's the hope, anyway.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_09Brilliant. Well, we've uh we've run out of time again. Um because lots lots to get through in our live cast. So uh thank you so much uh for being with us. Um if you've been on Facebook, uh there have been a couple of interruptions. Uh sorry about that, but uh thank you for persisting with us. We're just ironing out one or two glitches. But uh we're we're getting into our flow, I think. I think so. With the low.
SPEAKER_08We're finding the formats. Yeah. And I think uh next week is our video is God real? Is that where we're at too? Yes. I lose track because we film ahead, it's uh very difficult to keep track of where we're at. Um so yeah, that's the question next week, isn't it? I think our thorny question is God real? So we'll be that'll be coming up next Monday. And uh oh well I was gonna say we'll be discussing discussing it Tuesday, but will we? Because we will be here.
SPEAKER_09We'll do a low-tech version. We'll do a low-tech version just on the uh on the MacBook.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, we're heading up to the University of Glasgow for mission the mission week there, Glenn's speaking. Um, and I'm kind of tagging along. Um so be praying for that. Yes, you know, to pray for that, because there'll be Christians inviting non-Christian friends along to various events, I guess probably two events every day from Monday to Friday. Yeah. So great opportunities, and but we'll try and do a little live thing and give you an update as to how that's going. Absolutely. Brilliant. So, everybody, have a great week.