Today on the Evangelist Podcast we speak for a second time to Michael Otts.
SPEAKER_01The Evangelists Podcast. Encouragement to speak life to a needy world. With Glenn Scrivener and Andy Brinkley.
SPEAKER_00This is the Evangelist Podcast, seeking to encourage you in sharing your faith, whether that's to family or friends or even complete strangers. I'm Andy Brinkley and uh Glenn Scrivener, our uh resident evangelist and Speak Life's director, he's not here. He's been off to Lewis and he's uh interviewed Michael Otts, who works very closely with Christian unions across Europe, helping them in their missions work. But before we get to that, uh if you'd like to keep a bit more updated uh with us at Speak Life, do sign up to the email list at the website, speaklife.org.uk. Give us your email and we'll keep you informed of of what's going on here. And you'll also hear a very exciting project coming up for Christmas. Uh we will have more details on that, which we'll share with you in a future podcast. However, if you can't wait until then, you can go to give.net slash Christmasfilms and there's a little explanation there. Um Glenn's done a video uh about it, but we'll uh as I say, we'll go into a bit more detail another time. I'm not gonna spend much more time talking now, but uh Glenn recently took a short train trip up to Lewis to catch up with Michael Otz and recorded an interview while they were having a stroll after lunch. So you may hear a bit of uh wind noise on the microphone, but it should be clear enough to hear.
SPEAKER_03So I am walking along a river in Lewis in East Sussex, and I've got my good friend Michael Otz with me. Say hello, Michael. Hi. Hello, everybody. We are just chilling out. We've had a lovely lunch at uh Bill's Cafe, highly recommended. And uh I have first time at Bill's. What were your your your impressions of Bill's? It was great, you paid, so that was good. And the uh the strawberry and basil cheesecake worked surprisingly well. Strawberry and basil, you'd never think it'd work together. Bit like you and me, my coffee. You'd never you'd never think it'd go together. But it works a treat. Um so we've had you on the Evangelist Podcast. You were you were on, I guess like a year ago.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we sat in a hotel in Poland. We did actually, and I got really sunburnt.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I remember that because like somebody just posted a video online and they they tagged me in it, and I had a look at the video, and it was just after we spoke. And we must have we must have been talking for a couple of hours out in the street. You were like lobster. And I was totally lobster, and just yeah, glowing, glowing in the Polish sun. And I thought, curse you, Michael Lutz, curse you. Um because when you trade on your boy band good looks like I do, um, it's just you wouldn't understand, Michael. But uh, for some of us, uh that that million dollar face is uh worth protecting. Anyway, um so tell us what have you been up to in this last year?
SPEAKER_04Wow, so generally my year kind of has a similar kind of feel to it, so most of the work is in universities, and so I've done about 13 university missions. Wow. Uh five here in the UK, and then the others in other parts of Europe. And um so um speaking of those, particularly helping pioneer mission weeks in countries where they've not done them before, so places like Finland and Georgia and Belarus, and where they're just just beginning, which has been really exciting to see confidence in kind of the public proclamation of the gospel growing in those countries, and then around that I do associated speaking, so training weekends and stuff like that to prepare Christian students for the missions that they're going to be involved in.
SPEAKER_03So before you come to these universities, let's say in Eastern Europe, what did what did evangelism look like or what did mission look like before one of these concentrated weeks of mission and how did they cope with you sort of raising the bar?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so I think often, particularly in parts of the uh country where parts of Europe where um Christians are small fewer in number, there's been a sense of because we're so small we can't do public evangelism, we'll just do personal evangelism, uh, we'll just concentrate on reaching our friends. Um and obviously there's real value to that, but then if you don't have many Christians, then you're not gonna have many friends and you're not gonna reach many people. Right. And uh so one of the things we've been encouraging groups is to say, hey, even if you're small, and why not try and do something more public um that could reach more people than you'd be able to do if you just kept it um kind of in terms of personal evangelism. Such as what? Like what would be a thing that would make a big splash? So, well, the concept of a mission week itself, the idea of putting on a whole week of events in the university, publicising it well, maybe getting a kind of big central venue, advertising it um across the university. Also, if you do a concentrated week like that, you can bring in people to come and help, um, which would um we now come to a muddy place. A muddy style. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Here we go. Let's see if we can pick our way through here. This is exciting. Dear listener, you're you're with us. Do you feel like you're with us? That was the splash of mud as we went through the style, okay?
SPEAKER_04Okay. So uh the other advantage of having a week like that is you can bring in a team from outside to come and help. So if you've only got, as there are in some cases, two or three Christians on the ground in the university, if you can bring in ten guys to come and help, then you can achieve more than obviously you'd be able to do without. So um you wouldn't just bring them in for a single event, but if you've got a whole week of events, then it's great to be able to bring in a team and bolster the the locals.
SPEAKER_03That real sense that something is happening, and and here are some people who have crossed an ocean just to come and tell you this portentous news. Yeah, okay. And good good news stories from from some of these missions? What's what's been uh encouraging you this last year?
SPEAKER_04Oh I think particularly Belarus, I'd have to say, is is really encouraging. Um it's probably um one of the hardest places practically to do evangelism in Europe because of the situation there and booking venues and so on. It's very difficult. But uh to see how the groups there have really stepped up, organised events, done things that you just wouldn't have thought were possible, and a real openness to the gospel as well. There's uh I think a lot of people are kind of disillusioned with kind of their formal religious upbringing, not necessarily atheist, still asking those big questions, and really attracted to a kind of Christian group and a message which really connects and um has got something to say that's kind of directly relevant to their lives as well.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, fantastic. So 13 of these in the in this last year?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Wow. Wow, okay, and we we've both been reflecting on it being the summer and uh evangelists kind of struggling knowing what to do uh when we've got time to ourselves, struggling to know what to do, and people ask us where are you off to next? And the answer is Tesco's. Um what how how are you keeping yourself busy during the summer?
SPEAKER_04Well, I'm doing this podcast with you today. That's work, um yeah, really hard work walking by a river. Um so I've just actually had two camps and that I've been in Boldon. Um so one was in Spain, um, speaking for the GBU, that's the IFES group in Spain, uh working with students out there. And that's really been uh training Christian students in evangelism. Um although wonderfully, we had uh we had one student come who wasn't a Christian at the start of the week, had become a Christian by the end of the week, so um they got to practice what they preached. Yeah. And then last week I was on a youth camp up in Leicester, connected to the church where I um grew up and has been very supportive. So um that was uh had a mixture of Christians and non-Christian young people. Um so I've had that, but uh other than that, time for holiday, yeah. Also, just time for reading and study, yeah. Um maybe a short writing project and getting things ready for the new academic year.
SPEAKER_03Because it's been a while since your last book. Was it last year? Uh came out? Last spring, yeah. Last spring came out. So I mean there's there's new books in the pipeline, or what's what's what's happening writing-wise?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think writing books is a bit like having babies, apparently. I'm told. You're told. You have to forget how painful the last one was before you attempt doing another one. Yeah, okay. So um you're still a bit sore after last year. Um so uh so at the moment um there's a few ideas, but they're very much in the idea stage at the moment. We'll see what happens.
SPEAKER_03And you just told me you came back from uh a Fanda course that Jay Smith runs in sort of uh helping people get up to speed with evangelism and polemics uh towards Muslims, is that right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so um Fanda do a fantastic course, a correspondence course, um, over the course of the year. And you basically go online, you can watch it live on a Wednesday night, or you can um listen to it on catch-up at any other time. It's a very extensive course looking at what Muslims believe, how we go about reaching Muslims with the gospel, how do we respond to kind of Islamic objections to the gospel, but also how we can raise our own questions and objections. Right. Um so they would talk about it not just being a case of doing apologetics, um responding to their objections, but doing polemics, um raising our own um questions, uh, which I think is really important.
SPEAKER_03It must be an issue you you come up against. There's some universities I go to and the Islamic society is stronger than the Christian Union, and you must have come up against some very well thought-through Muslims in your evangelism, do you?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so um uh it's interesting actually, some of the ones that I've met this year. Uh we were in Georgia recently doing a mission week, and actually there are a load of students there from Iraq. Um kind of students that we wouldn't get in British universities, um probably struggled to get visas, but uh um a lot of Muslim students very open to conversation. Uh we had a mission week in neighbouring Armenia back at the beginning of the year. We had a whole load of Muslim students from India um come to that and engage and come on a weekend away, and it was fantastic just to spend time um engaging with them. So, yeah, often quite thought-through. Um in fact, often Muslims living outside of Muslim majority countries are more thought through in their their own faith than those living surrounded by people. I guess partly because they have to. They're living in a situation where they want to know what they believe and respond to it. So yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03And so, what are the sorts of questions that they would bring? So if you if you're giving a talk and somebody comes up afterwards from a Muslim background, what are the sorts of areas you find yourself talking in?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think um you can almost guarantee um to uh to a T that every time uh you do a talk or engage with Muslims that way, they'll raise questions of the Trinity, even if your talk has not been about it at all. Yep. They know you're a Christian, uh the deity of Jesus and the reliability of the Bible seems to be the kind of hot three topics. Which are great things to talk about, aren't you? Brilliant, yeah, I'd love to talk about all three.
SPEAKER_03You talk you talk to your average pagan about stuff, and who knows what you're talking about for the first ten minutes. You talk to a Muslim and you know you're gonna talk about who is God. So that's that's quite good. Okay. And so did the founder course kind of help you with the with this kind of stuff? How is how is it helping in shaping your your evangelism?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think it's really, really helpful. But I think on the issue of the Bible, for instance, we talked about not only responding to their objections but raising our own questions. Right. And I think one of the things that I found really helpful in terms of uh answering questions about the Bible is if we give the very best response to the question, has the Bible been changed? Yes. So the average Muslim, that's not going to sound very convincing because their conviction is that the Quran hasn't been changed at all and is absolutely perfect in every letter, jossel, tittle, and so on. Yes. And honestly, we can't say that because although we want to say there's a very good reason for knowing that the Bible has been reliably preserved over the generations, we're not making the claim that there's never ever been a copy of the Bible that's got any changes in it whatsoever. Yes. Now, the advantage is obviously we have so many copies and so many manuscripts that we can see where that happens and we can apply textual criticism to work out what the original would be and so on. But to the Muslim who thinks, well, hey, the Quran is absolutely perfect, that's never going to sound very convincing. So to actually ask questions, hang on, how do you know that the Quran is perfect if it's manuscripts? Right. How do you know there have to be changes? What about the um evidence that we have now of manuscripts that are significantly different and so on? Yes. Um and if they start questioning their own convictions, it might make them more open to see that there might be more to think about than they previously did.
SPEAKER_03I remember reading uh Nabil Kureshi's uh Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus, and then um what's his follow-up? He did a follow-up book. Um I read it on my Kindle. Um books on Kindles, you never know what they're called because you don't look at the cover. Yeah, exactly. So um, but I mean he was very clear in both those books that um yes, he he was convinced to the to the to the point of saying, I think that Christianity is 99% true. Yeah, I'm 99% convinced that it is the truth, but I'm a hundred percent convinced that the Quran is true and it's got to be this revelation from God. And you know, David Wood, his friend, you know, had to basically blast out the the foundation from under his feet and show him that the Quran, you know, was nonsense in order for him to actually make that step of thing. I just find that I found that interesting because I I'd love to live in a dream world in which you just paint beautiful pictures of the glory of Jesus and people are just won simply by that. But I think there is a there is a sense in which you've got to kind of show people the sinking sand before they're gonna flee to the rock.
SPEAKER_04And I think that raises an interesting issue which I've been wrestling with over the year is how we do that. Yeah. Um so particularly in British tolerant society, the idea of saying to someone, or even suggesting that someone's wrong, is like the biggest sin of our society. So to actually not just respond to their questions but to ask questions to actually point out and say, hey, I think there's a problem here, yeah. Um is seen as well, politically incorrect. Yeah. So how do we how do we do that in a gracious manner? And what does it look like to do that? I mean, yeah, Peter talks about doing it with gentleness and respect.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_04But then I kind of think sometimes what we think is gentleness and respect is just kind of British politeness. Right.
SPEAKER_03Because Paul talks about tearing down strongholds.
SPEAKER_04Which is not sounding like gentleness and respect, is it?
SPEAKER_03But that's Paul, you know, that's Paul. Yeah, yeah. And and I I mean I used to go down the speaker's corner quite a bit. And I used to go down with Jay, and and um and what always struck me there is that even among the Muslims, there were there could be vociferous disagreement and debate, and and people could be raising their voices and gesticulating wildly, but at the end of it all, they would, you know, go up, you know, and smoke the peace pipe together, and it would all be fine. And culturally, we we just have a real problem with overt disagreement. In our culture, you know, we we'd far rather just flame someone online and absolutely be barbarous to people in the scuttling underbelly of the comments sections of various uh websites. But we're very uncomfortable doing it in person, and maybe that's just a Western thing we've got to get over.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and I think that's where we need to reflect on it, and saying, hang on, am I being biblical or I'm just being kind of constrained by my Britishness here? And yeah, um, actually, is that really being loving? You know, we think it's being loving, but actually loving someone actually means pointing out where they might be wrong. Yeah. Particularly if them being wrong has significant implications for their life now and eternity. I think it's massively important we do that. So I think we need to think, I think the challenges in a mixed audience that I'm often speaking to, where you've got kind of Western secular people and Muslim people trying to pitch it right in a way that is going to be appropriate for both sides of the audience can be can be difficult. But I think we need to be less afraid to challenge, and I think one of the good ways to challenge is by asking questions. Right. Um, and so rather than going in and saying, hey, do you know your Quran is inaccurate and how it's been changed and so on, yeah, just saying, can you show me how you know the Quran is perfectly deserved? Um what do you make of these palimsests that were discovered in Yemen? Yeah. Which they probably haven't heard about, but you might want to point out and so on. And and doing it by asking questions is still raising the issue, but doing it maybe in a slightly more gentle way.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So is there yeah, so that that kind of tone issue and the questioning issue you'll take forwards from the from the fander stuff. Is there anything else you'll take forward into your evangelism, you think?
SPEAKER_04I think one of the bottom lines of the course really has just been a deep conviction that the gospel is true and beautiful. Yeah. Well, that Jesus is true and beautiful. Yeah. Um, yeah, this is really good news and and it really is true, and it does stand up to questioning and objections. And I guess in contrast that, but I don't think Islam is. I don't think it's true. I think it crumbles under the historical kind of analysis that we put on it. And I think in contrast to Jesus, I think, well, let's just say putting Jesus and Muhammad side by side, I think Jesus just signs of a beauty and a goodness, right? Which is wonderful. And so I think it's given me a conviction to say, hey, um, I really want to share this with with Muslims. Yes. And I think again, living in British society, again, it's not seen as politically correct, is it? You know, they've got their religion, you've got yours, mind your own business. Yes. Um, but I want to say, hey, no, we've got something that's good, it's true, it's beautiful, and we want to share that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's interesting. I I mean I had a conversation with uh a couple who were not a Christian, they were not Christians. The the uh the wife was a bridesmaid of my mum many, many years ago, and uh and actually the way into a conversation there was to talk about Brunei, they'd just come through Brunei, and uh and the husband actually had some dealing with the Sultan of Brunei, and he was just just talking about the sort of the uh the absolute disparity between rich and poor. You've got you've got this palace, and then you've got the rest, these serfs who are just constantly kowtowing to the power that is above them, and uh and I was just able to sort of say, you know, actually, I I think in the West we find that so difficult because our picture of what greatness is is Jesus climbing down from his throne into the gutter to marry the pauper and to bring her into the palace, you know, as as one with him forever, you know, whereas the the Muslim picture that is being told to them from cradle, from the cradle to the grave, is here is Allah, he is always above, and the best you can ever do is submit and that sort of thing. And and I actually found that a quite fruitful way in, not not even with the Muslim, it's like appreciation of Islamic theology actually, I think enables you to do a kind of a taste the difference thing with Christians, and I'm I'm doing that more and more and finding it finding it fruitful, I think. Yeah, which again sort of talks about the the which god are you talking about question.
SPEAKER_04Um yeah, and I think it's yeah, this kind of let's just start with the assumption that we're talking about the same God, I think it's just such a bad place to start. So hang on a minute. Yeah. Um rather than starting with a assumption about what God is like and seeing if Jesus kind of comes up to the mark, it's well saying, hey, why would we know anything about God if he didn't choose to reveal himself? Well, exactly. Here is the way he has chosen to reveal himself, and that's how we'll know what he's like. Yeah. And I just think, again and again, particularly talking to Muslims, that's a helpful way in, you know, when they raise objections about Jesus didn't know this or Jesus said this, and it doesn't fit with what God is like. I said, Well, how do you know what God is like? Ah, exactly. Yeah. And that's a good place to start.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, so often, even in university evangelism, even if everyone in front of me is just a Westerner, I kind of say, um, okay, my picture of God is a human sacrifice with his arms outstretched to the world, bleeding for his enemies. I don't know if that's what you think of when you think of God, but but a Christian is meant to, is meant to think. Here is the supreme image of our God, which of course is the supreme thing that is absolutely denied in the Quran, you know? Yeah, Jesus is not God and he did not die on the cross. Um, but when you start from the inverse of the Muslim assumption, you actually get a God who is absolutely surprising and captivating, I think. And I think it's that sort of compare and contrast thing that really that really helps. A friend of mine was uh telling me recently, he said, I I think Muslims have been given to the church to keep Christians honest. Um when you have a conversation with a Muslim for any length of time and you see that there are assumptions about what God is like that that are going on in their background, actually, those same assumptions can also be in the church. Yeah. We can also think that God is roughly like Allah. Yeah. Roughly like this, just this big supreme being who never shows up. Um like the train that's just showing up. The terrain's just showing up. Michael, don't wave at the terrain. What about you? Five years old. Honestly. I remember um um preparing for a debate with a Muslim, um I guess it was 18 months ago, Adnan Rashid, and um what really struck me in reading the Quran again at That stage was um heaven and hell in the Quran are absolutely this this carrot and stick. So almost you know, you you cannot read a single page of the Quran without being told there's paradise for the faithful Muslim and there's fires for the rest. And the and the contrast when you come to the Bible, where like literally you type heaven and hell into your Bible gateway search bar and you get zero verses. You type heaven and earth into your Bible gateway search bar and you get 200 verses. That's the duality going on in the Bible, heaven and earth, and then then there's hell for those who want to resist God's heavenly purposes. But but again, just it was it was only really in reading the Quran and talking to Muslims that I finally got an appreciation for the Bible and how what the Bible's saying about God and heaven and hell is so very different. Have you had that kind of experience?
SPEAKER_04Absolutely, and I've you know, not just talking to Muslims, but it's just this common assumption, isn't it? You know, you've got God, you've got heaven, you've got hell, and then which of the rules we keep to make sure we go to one or the other.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And like you say, I just I like to tell Christians and just say, look, the Bible doesn't really talk about going to heaven in that sense. Yeah. Um, it's far bigger than that. It's about ultimately a new creation and God's transformation of this world and his renewal of his creation and so on. Yes. And yeah, it's funny, people say things like, What will we do in heaven? Right. And I like to say, What do you do on earth? Right. As if like we do this one activity for all eternity, and we find that rather boring. Right, right. Yeah, it's um so I I think that's true. I also think um when it comes to well, Islam or any other religion, it's very much this kind of idea of, like you say, this threat of punishment um that is motivating it. And obviously in the gospel that's not our motivation, is it? It's it's knowing Christ and it's the wonder of what he's done, it's the love of Christ that compels us, and so on. Yeah, I think sometimes as Christians we can slip into kind of having this kind of view that um maybe historically it's been popular. Sorry, this is where we clamber over the uh the mud again. Here we go.
SPEAKER_03I just I just laid down in the puddle so that Michael could actually walk over my prostrate form. It was very sacrificial. Dear listener, how Christ-like.
SPEAKER_04So, yeah, I think we can often see, you know, hella's the motivation for for evangelism, hella's the motivation for for these things, and the Bible says, no, actually, it's it's the glory, the goodness of Christ in the gospel that is our motivation. Um and and that should be our chief kind of aim. And of course, the Muslim objection when you explain the gospel is of course, well, what's the incentive to be good if Jesus died for you? Yes. Um, which is great because I think it shows that they're starting to see the radical nature of the gospel and that it is different. Right, and they're revealing the motivations of their heart at that moment, aren't they?
SPEAKER_03The only thing keeping them from sin is fear for their own skin. Yeah, basically.
SPEAKER_04So sin is basically this really attractive thing that would be really nice, but you just can't do it, rather than saying no, sin is the rubbish stuff that ruins the world and our relationships, and you want to stick with it.
SPEAKER_03I was speaking at Plymouth University, a few Muslims came came up to me afterwards, and one of them said to me, if I knew for certain that all of my sins would be forgiven, I would definitely go out tonight and get blind drunk and commit fornication. And I would do that every single day. Um, basically the only thing stopping him from getting drunk and committing fornication is you know the fear of hell. And then when you put that together with what is his hope of paradise, um it is getting drunk and lots of fornication. Let's be honest. But yeah, it it all it always strikes me as that that that yeah.
SPEAKER_04I remember I have the thing I put it in my book, What Kind of Hope? The idea of do we view life now as a rehearsal or as an audition? Uh-huh. And I think a lot of people see life as an audition. It's kind of the Islamic view, you know, I just have to pass this test. Oh, I like it. And it's kind of arbitrary. Yeah. And and then I get to do the kind of the main thing, which is completely different in the future. Right. Whereas actually as Christians, we're saying life now is in a sense the rehearsal. Wow. We're we're playing the part that we're going to play for all eternity. Wow. And how we live now is is not some arbitrary test just so that we can do all the things we couldn't do in heaven. Yeah. But but actually that's because it's the best way to live in God's world.
SPEAKER_03And for the atheists, it's the curtain call. Yeah. The curtain comes down and there's nothing more. Yeah. Wow. That that that does change the way you look at things massively. So what is it that keeps you kind of keeps the fires burning in terms of gospel passion and keeps the mind ticking over in terms of intellectual stimulation?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I try to, um, I guess in terms of the latter, um, particularly over the summer, I try to do some reading on kind of subjects that I haven't thought about so much before, kind of wrestle with a few of those. So that's helpful to have that time, often in the midst of the kind of mission season, you're so busy doing that there isn't that kind of time to to kind of think and reflect. So that's a really helpful thing to do. Yeah, I find sometimes. It's funny, if you ask me before I go on a mission week, do you want to go? I almost always feel like no. Right. Um, I'd rather stay at home, I'd rather I'd rather have an easy week. Yeah. And then you go and you present the gospel and you see people respond to the gospel, right? And you start engaging people and think, actually, yeah, yeah, this works, it's true, people need it. And I think sometimes people wait to feel a sense of I should do evangelism before they go and do it. Uh-huh. Yeah. But actually, the thing that often motivates me is when you get involved and start doing it, not only do you see how other people can respond to the gospel with joy, but it refreshes your own heart. It's a means of grace for yourself, isn't it? Yeah, it's it excites you afresh at the gospel as you see other people getting it for the first time.
SPEAKER_03It's like that Hebrews 13, 13. Let us then go to Christ outside the camp. It's you know, as you go outside the camp, the place where God is known, the safe place, you actually meet Jesus in the danger of mission. Yeah. Well, brilliant. Well, what can we be praying for you moving ahead, uh Michael?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so um, well, I guess the next few weeks are quieter, but then the new kind of academic year starts afresh. We have a team of associates each year that come with us, yeah, being trained up in kind of giving public evangelistic talks. Uh so we've got uh three guys joining us at the end of the month and will be with us for 10 months. So really pray for them that they um really get equipped through the year as they get training and as they get opportunities as they put that into practice and then get to use it in different contexts across Europe. Right. It's really encouraging seeing how um associates that we've had over the past few years have gone on to use that in different uh different countries around the continent. And so pray for them as they they join, as they settle in. Uh pray for us as we start to work with different university groups over the course of the next year and start to develop those kind of working relationships, uh, firstly with the Christian students, um, helping encourage and give them confidence as they plan towards missions later in the year. That's brilliant.
SPEAKER_03And if people were listening and thought, you know what, maybe next year I'd like to be an associate, what would they need to do?
SPEAKER_04Uh get in touch would be the uh the best thing. Um uh probably a great thing to do would be to actually come and be involved in one of the missions this year. Yeah. And often what uh people have done to kind of dip their toe in the water has been to come on a mission week somewhere, either in the UK or on the continents, uh, get a feel of what that's like, um, uh get to work with us for a week and then kind of from there take things forward. That's great.
SPEAKER_03Okay, and how would they do that?
SPEAKER_04Where where can they find you online? Uh so moetonline.org, Moet as in like the champagne.
SPEAKER_03Moe.
SPEAKER_04Moe, yes. Blubbly evangelism, that's our tagline. That's our unofficial tagline. I I shared that with someone recently, and they said the one thing evangelism is not, it's lovely.
SPEAKER_03Maybe not his.
SPEAKER_04Definitely wasn't his. So moeonline.org. Um, yeah, so uh that's a website, there's resources there, you can get in contact um through the website too.
SPEAKER_03Great! Oh we'll we'll put uh links to that in the show notes as well. But uh isn't this a lovely day? It's gorgeous. It's been kind of nice here. We we heartily recommend Lewis.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's my first time to Lewis. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Lewis, yes, you thought it was Lou's.
SPEAKER_04Where do you go today? I went to the Loues. Yes, I needed plural.
SPEAKER_03Hope it all worked out for you. Good. Well, thank you for joining us on the Evangelist Podcast. Thanks.
SPEAKER_00That was Michael Otts talking to Glenn Scrivener. As they mentioned, you can visit uh Michael Otts website by going to moetonline.org. Um that's M-O-E-Tonline or one word.org. And uh that's Michael's website. Also the web address for the podcast is speaklife.org.uk slash tep. There you'll find links to this episode and also links to subscribe via email, subscribe on your device, and also links to our Patreon campaign. If you enjoy the Evangelist Podcast, you can help support us with a micropayment for each episode, which helps get everything paid for. So that's it for this week. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll see you next time.