Today on the Evangelist Podcast, Owen Batstone and James Hughes talk to Glenn.
SPEAKER_00The Evangelists Podcast. Encouragement to speak life to a needy world. With Glenn Scrivener and Andy Brinkley.
SPEAKER_04Welcome back to the Evangelist Podcast, or welcome for the first time.
SPEAKER_05Oh, you got in there before I did.
SPEAKER_04This is the show where we hope to encourage you and your Christian witness, bringing you interviews and useful information.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, sometimes useful. And sometimes just, you know.
SPEAKER_04Well, I like to think, you know, things like you know, how to speak to a Muslim, how to speak to Jehovah's Witnesses. They're all quite useful.
SPEAKER_06That's quite useful. And as we unpack the gospel, the way of salvation, the way of having eternal life, that's that's quite useful. Yeah. Uh eternally speaking.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. That's the plan. That's the plan. Yeah. So so you're on the Evangelist Podcast.
SPEAKER_06I'm on another podcast. Yeah, yeah. And so we've got the scoop. So uh Owen Batstone, uh pastor in South Wales, got in touch and he says uh he says he's got a a podcast. And uh in fact he's got an online podcast series which includes people like Dick Lucas and Stuart Olliott and people like that. So we'll uh put in the show notes how people can get in touch with uh his interviews with other people. Um but uh he was really scraping the bottom of the barrel and thought, Who else can I get? And I was available, so he interviewed me as well. So uh he and uh and James got together and uh interviewed me about uh evangelism.
SPEAKER_04Okay. So without sort of repeating everything that you've said, what what is the podcast about?
SPEAKER_06Well, I mean, th because their podcast is a lot of about a lot of different aspects, they wanted to ask me specifically about evangelism. And so it's uh uh about things like Christ in all of scripture we talk about, we talk about uh apologetics and if it has a place in the local church, we talk about youth stuff, we talk about um every member ministry in evangelism, are there only just gifted evangelists and then the rest? Um what is the role of of every single person in the in the body of Christ in evangelism? Uh all those sorts of things and and and about the preached word and what's the place of preaching in in church, the gospel, the nature of the gospel, and how it releases us to be evangelistic. So, yeah, lots of lots of cool stuff like that.
SPEAKER_04Okay. And fill us in a little bit of about uh what's going on outside of the podcast world world, outside of the soundproof booth.
SPEAKER_06Life goes on uh outside the bunker. And uh what am I doing? I guess this week I am uh in Northern Ireland. Um I I say that not yet being in Northern Ireland, but I speak into the future. This is like telepathy. Like we're not even in the same room, we're not even in the same time period. And I'm speaking to you. Isn't that weird? Future boy, future boy. Um actually, yeah, I was reading um Stephen King's uh book on writing, which is a famous book on writing fiction. Uh and and uh two things I got out of that book is fascinating. He he says that stories are discovered, they're like artifacts, they're like a fossil that's just there. And you're just in the shower and you have a thought about who knows, you know, a guy who's in prison who tunnels his way out, and that's a shorthand redemption. But it was it was like you know, for for Stephen King, I think I think this is going somewhere, by the way. Um Stephen King. We were on the right body. I saw that look on your face. This is going somewhere, trust me. And um and so the two things from Stephen King's on writing are uh that I took out of the book is is like stories are discovered, they're just there. There are these primordial facts that there is a story out there, which I thought was very interesting, because Stephen King's not a Christian. He does have a belief in God, but he's not a Christian. But I think he could see that actually we live in a storied universe and actually the artist is not creating stories, uh the artist is discovering a story that's already there and trying to tell it and be truthful to what is already there, which I thought is fascinating. Um the other the other thing Stephen King said uh about writing is that it's telepathy. Writing is telepathy. He says, you know, if I write this paragraph about, you know, a rabbit cage and inside there's a white rabbit with pink eyes, and on the back of the rabbit is a number eight tattooed in blue. Do you see the rabbit? Do you see the number eight? That's telepathy, baby. It's like that's that's magic. And he and he just sort of writes, you know, we are not even in the in the same year when I when I write about that number eight on the back of a rabbit, and yet it's in your mind and it's in my mind, and somehow language has communicated this thing. Isn't that weird? And and it's it's a funny thing to think about that that actually the very structure of literature um actually speaks of the the gospel reality of the world, that there's such a thing as a story that's just there to be discovered that is already true. And that kind of via language, via the word the realities are created and communicated, and we yeah, we live in a storied universe, we live in a in a world that is shaped by the word. Anyway.
SPEAKER_04Anyway, so you go to Banga, yeah, you're gonna be able to do it. I'm going to manga, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06And all of all of that from the word telepathy. But yeah, okay. So I'm in Banger, um doing some gospel preaching and things like that. So uh yeah, that that's fun.
SPEAKER_04Okay. So by the way, we were recording this a week earlier.
SPEAKER_06But yeah, exactly. And then uh next week you're going to be I'm gonna be at Union in Bridgeend in Wales, and uh I'll be teaching a course on evangelism there.
SPEAKER_04Uh and Union is uh uh where uh you do a hu a hub, you sort of lead a hub from Union to teach people involved in theology and to further their training before going into you know a mission-based role or something like that.
SPEAKER_06So we run a graduate diploma in theology, it's an academic theological degree that you can do over two years. And uh here in Eastbourne we have a learning community and you can come be part of uh the learning community here. Uh so who would be interested in everyone here that listens to the Evangelist Podcast?
SPEAKER_04That would be Sooking to go into ministri uh in full-time Christian work and wants a bit more further study than just a degree.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I mean it's it's degree level theological training and but you don't have to go away to a residential theological college to get it. Which can cost you know, the there's a pastor down the road here in Eastbourne and and I was at the same Bible college as as he was. I got my training paid for by the Church of England. He is a free churchman. Um he had to raise £130,000 for his family to to be away for four years and to live and survive and you know, the th the fees. And so residential training and m our Bible college was a fantastic Bible college, um but it's a huge expenditure of resources um for a family to go away for three or four years and and get that kind of degree level theological training. Uh you gotta come up with a hundred grand plus. Um you come to Union and you still get degree-level theological training from the likes of Mike Reeves and Bob Letham and Ray Ortland and Lee Gatus and and and great people. Um but uh the fees are around three thousand a year and you get to study it in context while you are hopefully working in the life of the church or being a witness in your workplace. But it's part-time study over two years that gets you the graduate diploma. And uh yeah, we're looking for people to start this this September. Could that be you?
SPEAKER_04It could be you, yeah. Why not? Why not? Um so how if someone was interested, they go to union.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, ust.ac.uk, ust.ac.uck, uh that would be a good place to go to, or get in touch with us via the website speaklife.org.uk.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Well, let's jump into the interview then with uh uh Owen Batstone, James Hughes. Brilliant talking to you.
SPEAKER_06And it's Owen to begin talking.
SPEAKER_03Uh now, today, my glamorous co-host and I have a guest on who I owe a big thank you to because I've been playing your stuff essentially without permission on my church services for the last four six years.
SPEAKER_06Allow me to give you permission right now. Yeah, after the fact, you're yeah, you're very welcome.
SPEAKER_03Um, as a young man, years ago, I was desperate to know more about the old testament, and I found um Paul Blackham and I found Steve Levy, and they pointed me to this man whose name is Glenn Scrivener, and he blew up the Old Testament for me, and I devoured your blogs and your everything else you do in the media world, and you just made the Bible come alive with the centrality of Jesus for all of scriptures. So thank you. And now my church is thrilled with Bible teaching because it's all about Jesus. It's all about Jesus. So there's yeah, there's a little valley in Ogmore Vale with some happy Christians in, and we are thanking you. Oh wow. So welcome, Glenn Scrivener after.
SPEAKER_06Thank you so much. Well, I I just rip stuff off other people who say good stuff. So yeah, Paul and Steve, I love I love their stuff, and uh anytime you put Jesus at the centre of your understanding of scripture, uh yeah, light bulbs go off and hearts get warmed, and uh yeah, and people's lives get put right side up, I think. So yeah, just it's just fun being a part of it.
SPEAKER_03Well, I also used your a quote you said when I preached a series on suffering, and I opened with every sermon with it, and the quote was No No you go on, Glenn. Do you reckon you know what the quote was that I stole it? No, I didn't, no, no. I didn't steal it, I said it was you. Okay. Alright, what was it? Um it is so sad and common when hurting people say it's too hard to be a Christian right now, as though Jesus is a burden borne by the strong.
SPEAKER_06Ah Wow Did you say that? Did I it sounds like the sort of thing I would say, yeah. That is amazing. I I just come across it too often, though. That's the problem. People do come and say it's too hard to be a Christian right now. Yeah, as though Jesus is the heavy yoke, and laying him down would be the easy life, it's just tragic.
SPEAKER_03So, I mean, that really changed our view of suffering because you spot on there. Um now the third and final thing by way of introduction is uh there's a handful of people I listen to or read, and they make me feel that I've done every single thing wrong in my entire life, especially since leading a church, and um you are one of them. Like you just make me feel like I've done it all wrong, and what you've said is right, and I'm a massive loser. So, next week's podcast might be on what to do after you quit the ministry, because today's subject, I just reckon it's gonna knock me flat for maybe a month. Maybe knock me to the job centre. The subject today is picking Glenn Scrivener's brains on well, I won't call it evangelism because it'll turn loads of people away because every seminar in the world is currently about evangelism.
SPEAKER_06So the police can't stand evangelism seminars either, so yeah. What are we gonna call it?
SPEAKER_03Wait, don't you alright, okay.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, call it call it what?
SPEAKER_03They aren't people listening to the gospel anymore.
SPEAKER_06Okay, alright, let's do that. Alright. Sounds good. Do I do I really make you feel guilty? Is that is that my effect?
SPEAKER_03Make me feel guilty in a good way.
SPEAKER_06Enlightening way. Oh man. Okay, I'm gonna um well now you've your podcast has now made me feel guilty, and I'm gonna go there feeling condemned.
SPEAKER_03Now we had an email exchange about something John Piper said once, and I was so hooked on what John Piper said, and we talked about it, and then you said, I love John Piper, but I think what he says is wrong here. And what you said was absolutely right, and I can't remember anything more about it than that, but that was just one.
SPEAKER_06Just remember that I yeah, I th I'm a big fan. In fact, I I even told him to his face John Piper once. It was very embarrassing. I I spotted him at the back of church at all Solz Langham Place about 15 years ago, and no one else had spotted him. He was just coming in to listen to John Stock preach, and I went up to him after the after the service, and I I I didn't know what I was gonna say when I got in front of him, and I got all sorts of tongue-tied, and I had ended up saying, I'm a big fan, and he there were there were tumbleweeds blowing through the church at that moment. The awkwardness of that silence, as he had no idea what to do with this fanboy in front of him. So, yes, whatever else I say about John Piper, it's all always got to be prefaced with I'm a massive fan.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alright. Okay, Jimmy, you got anything to say by way of introduction before I lead with my opening question about why aren't people listening to the gospel? Um, I guess my my question. Oh no, you're gonna lead in with your question, Jimmy. This is by way of introduction. Just say hello.
SPEAKER_00Hello, Jimmy.
SPEAKER_02Okay, well, I I'll say hello. Um, I mean, I I've enjoyed watching uh Glenn, particularly um the uh the Halloween and the Christmas uh little videos. And if that's not you, it's gonna be a very there's gonna be a tumbleweave moment now as it rolls up.
SPEAKER_06Please confirm that that is you. Yeah, it is me. Although on on Sunday someone came up to me and she was saying, uh when you were preaching, I was just thinking the whole time, who is this guy? He kind of looks like the guy in the Halloween video, but he's far pastier. A pasty version of that's me. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03That's the anti-santi randy, is it?
SPEAKER_06Oh, yeah, that's one of me as well. Yeah, but yeah, apparently, apparently I must have looked very tanned when I did the uh Halloween video before. Or I'm just looking ill right now.
SPEAKER_01It's been edited very well.
SPEAKER_06Touched up on the a lot of Photoshop is required, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, right. Uh let's just slow this down because lots of people listening to this stuff. Well, they listen to the last stuff, so I hope they still listen. So we're gonna slow it right down for anybody on any stage of the road of faith, or maybe they're not even a Christian. So I'm opening with Glenn. What is an evangelist and what is evangelism? Before I get to my real question.
SPEAKER_06Well then that's it, that is a good question because people are very afraid of evangelists and evangelism, and in some ways, quite rightly so. I think it's it's something that that unites both Christians and non-Christians. Both Christians and non-Christians are petrified of evangelists. Uh, because I think most people these days they kind of think of teleevangelists, and there's a frightening prospect for you, you know, somebody who's going to, you know, sell you a handkerchief for, you know, huge amounts of money on some cable, TV channel, and that sort of thing. But uh it shouldn't be like that. An evangelist, i it's just like a word that's been taken out of Greek. The evangel in Greek is the good news. So an evangelist is literally a teller of good news. Uh and all of a sudden that's a very positive idea, isn't it? Because we all love good news, we all love to share good news. Um so I guess uh I am somebody who's um particularly um devoting himself and other people uh helping me devote myself to um sharing the good news. Uh the good news of Jesus Christ, who died for our sins, who was risen again from the dead to give us new life. Uh and I go around either telling people about Jesus who don't know him yet, or I train people who want to know know how to you know share Jesus, or I produce evangelistic resources that help the church to share Jesus. So everything I do is about helping people to share Jesus.
SPEAKER_03Well, we certainly use a lot of your resources down in Ogmoreville. Um but other than the training part and the and the production of media, have you just described what every Christian should be, or is there a special division for the evangelist?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I think there is a distinction. Um I I think you know the Bible does talk about named individuals who are evangelists as opposed to other people who do the work of an evangelist. Um so you might go to somewhere like Ephesians chapter 4, and verse 10 talks about the ascended Christ who gives gifts to his church, and all those named gifts uh are Bible teachers, really. There's apostles, prophets, uh evangelists, and pastor teachers. And uh they're all people who've been especially gifted by God to help um proclaim the word, and evangelists in particular, I guess, uh are those with a kind of an outward focus to explain Jesus to those who don't yet know him. But even within Ephesians 4, the job of the evangelist is to equip God's people for their works of service. That's Ephesians 4, verse 11. And so e even someone who has a particular gift in evangelism, um, their gift is not to ignore the church and sideline the church and then just go down the street with a placard and a megaphone and do the you know the evangelism by themselves because the church is dead and that kind of thing. Unfortunately, there are evangelists who are like that, and it's uh absolute crying shame, and it's a denial of everything they're meant to be, because the evangelist is a gift to the church to equip the church to be evangelistic. So there are some people who are particularly gifted in it, um, but their gifts are meant to be employed in in helping every single Christian play their part in being a witness.
SPEAKER_02All right, can I can I can I ask a question on that? So uh as we say, we we have a call to evangelize where we are, and I was very interested in the way you brought that up because um, yes, in my mind, the first thing that came to mind for an evangelist is somebody uh a bit like the uh evangelist in Pilgrims Progress who's standing there, you know, giving out the message uh and encouraging people. But you've mentioned uh uh my question was gonna be how should a church balance its priorities around equipping uh everyday Christians to witness where they are and developing those as obvious gifts in that space. But you you sort of blend you're saying that's a blend uh of both of those uh that that comes through that the the people who are evangelists will will naturally develop or should naturally develop the members of of the the Christians in their church to help them um in their natural witness, where they are in their work and their their schools and and wherever they are.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah. But and I think even as the evangelist is trying to help Christians to be the witnesses that Christ has made them to be, um we do need to acknowledge that some people have the gift of the gab and some people don't. And and you know, uh I always go to one Peter where um the whole church is this royal priesthood, and so that's an evangelistic thing, right? A priesthood brings you to God and brings God to you. It's uh the the church is essentially priestly together. And then what one Peter, and that's that's what 1 Peter 2 says, and in in 1 Peter 4, Peter says, Ah yeah, but you do have different gifts. Some people are good speakers and some people are good servers. And the word for service there is the the deacon word, and it's a word particularly for sort of hospitality gifts and that sort of thing. And so Peter's saying, look, in this priestly body, in this evangelistic body, some people are good with their lips and some people are good with their hands, and some people are good with speaking, some people are good with meals and opening up their ha their homes and their tables and inviting people in. And and so as I'm trying to equip Christians in in their life of witness, um, yes, everybody's gonna need to put words to their faith at some point. So 1 Peter 3.15 says, always be prepared, and that's that's to every Christian, always be prepared to give an answer to anyone who asks you. So I uh you know, I do want to equip everybody to be able to put words to their faith. But then Peter says, you know, it's it's okay that some people uh are more wired that way, but what we really need to be doing is to get speakers and service together in evangelistic settings, so that we put on a heck of a lot of meals and we have people who are shooting their mouth off about Jesus. And what do you have at that point? You have the way Jesus did mission in the first century. You have the way that they did mission in Acts, you have the way they did mission in the early church, which was around a dinner table, people talking about Jesus.
SPEAKER_03So let's bring this down to the level of the people in my church who might be listening in your church. Um who you might say then that the work of evangelism can be daunting for some individuals, but that does not disqualify them. The extrovert might be good at meeting people, um but the person who's shy might be good at hospitality, gets them in their homes, and has conversations that the extrovert might never be able to have because he frightens people off. And then you've got the prayer warrior at work who is a mute mute to everyone else but to God. Um the introvert who's not good at public stuff but shares a gospel one-on-one.
SPEAKER_06Yes. Yeah, and don't don't think that the alpha type personality is not afraid as well. They are. So, you know, you see the Apostle Paul, and you might think that outwardly he looks like an old testament prophet with a forehead like Flint and nothing phases him. But he says he says I get petrified, you know, and and actually, you know, don't don't be put off by the bluster of of Of of some uh you know, alpha males, etc. But also recognize that alpha males are going to be good at reaching other alpha males, but they might not be great at at reaching the shy retiring types. And if if you're more of an introvert, you have far more of a chance of of reaching other introverts. So God has gifted you as you are, as the person that you are to be a witness. And one of the things I always do one of the things I always do in evangelism training is I say to people, you know, describe an evangelist for me. What are the what are the adjectives you use? What are the pictures, you know, that come to mind? And they always describe this horrible kind of, you know, big gruff guy, this robot who's more like a grizzly bear that just like growls at people and you know, they could sell insurance door to door, but they happen to happen to be selling Jesus door to door, and they they just describe this person who I just like fundamentally I just hate the sound of this person. And they're doing it in front of me, and I I've told them that I am an evangelist, and yet they hurt my feelings every single time. But then what I do is I say, well, now talk to your neighbor about someone who helped you trust Christ. And then they break up into groups and they feed back, you know, how are they how do they describe the people in their lives who've actually helped them in their Christian journey? And there's all sorts of people at that stage. You know, at that stage they're describing people who are, you know, people of integrity, people of patience, they're quite they might be incredibly quiet kinds of people. And you know, it's a it's a big shame that that second group of people are not the ones we think of when we think of evangelists. Because they're tremendous evangelists, they're they're the reason why we're Christians, so that makes them exceptional evangelists. So we need to break down this this image of the evangelist as just one kind of personality type.
SPEAKER_03Um alright, now on this, yeah, okay. I mean, my heart is singing at everything you're saying, and uh but I want to say things on this show that people are thinking but they're too afraid to say. And I have an inkling that there are people listening who are Christians, but they have never spoken about Jesus to anyone really, and there's a lot of people like that in our churches. You just described like the ideal church where people are getting busy living and talking about Jesus and putting money on for events. So here's my question: How can we help people who don't have a burning heart to talk about Jesus and why might they not be doing it, Glenn?
SPEAKER_06Um I think one thing is to recognize a difference in giftings and a difference in personality, and that's that's okay, uh to a to a point. Um I think at some point I want to raise Matthew 12, 34, from the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks, says Jesus. And he he seems to say, you know, what's coming out of your mouth is showing what's going on in your heart. And and quite often I'll say, you know, people tell me that, you know, they're no good with words, but you know, they've just had a grandchild and they can't shut up about him, you know. Or their football team's just won, and you know, what are they what are they chatting about? You know, from the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. Um so very often people tell me they don't have any gift of words, and yet they do use words. It's just they often use words about other things in their lives. And so at some point you need to ask, is my heart set on Christ? Is is he as exciting to me? Is he as gripping to me? Is he's is he as compelling and beautiful to me, as the football team, as the grandkids, as you know, as the latest gadget that I keep telling everybody I've just purchased? You know, i is Jesus.
SPEAKER_03Um if they say no, Glenn, no, he's not.
SPEAKER_06If they say no, he's not, I just want to tell them about Jesus again, you know. Um and so, you know, the my number one f sentence up your sleeve for evangelism is just that's what I love about Jesus. Dot dot dot. You know, how do you finish that sentence? Um and quite often in evangelism training, the main thing I get people to do is just chat with one another about what they love about Jesus. And what you find is that people's love for Christ increases as they name it, as they put words to it. And and it's also practice, because you're telling a Christian friend about Jesus. Um and I often think the reason why we don't speak to non-Christians about Jesus is that we don't even talk to Christians about Jesus actually. Um, and so maybe the first thing to do is to have evangelistic conversations with Christians.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, definitely. I agree with that, Glenn. Yeah. Can I sorry, sorry, Jimmy, I cut you off. Go on.
SPEAKER_02No, that's okay, that's fine. Um you you made a very powerful point, a very challenging point. Um, and I think uh I read it somewhere in a book, a very similar point. I think it was Rico Tice may have written about about this, saying you you know, is this a problem with you? They're buddies. Okay.
SPEAKER_06He married he married us. He married me and my wife. How about that?
SPEAKER_02I I didn't know that. That's uh that's that's I I but he I think he spoke in his book it it was a big challenge, you know. Is it simply that you don't love Christ enough? And that's why you don't share. One of the things I do find is sometimes people are possibly fearful of sharing because of past mistakes, you know, not just before they were Christians, but also and they think now they've already undermined the gospel by previous words and actions. What what what encouragement can you give to to people like that?
SPEAKER_06I think what Jesus does not want us to be polished evangelists who get it all right. I think that would be a real tragedy if what evangelism means is that we go out there with our professional, shiny, polished, you know, words for the world. Uh if that's the way that Jesus wanted the gospel to spread, he he should have got the angels to do it, because you know, he's actually but he hasn't got angels to go and do it. Angels could go and preach flawlessly, couldn't they? He's actually got idiots like you and me to go out and do it. In and and the words that I use in evangelism, I'm paid to do this stuff and I'm rubbish at it. You know, just these feeble, faltering words. And I I'm often reminded of Matthew chapter four, you know, the seed that you're meant to scatter on these four soil types. And you just when you look at seed, it it looks very unpromising. Very it looks very unsophisticated, looks very weak, looks totally impotent. What is it w seed? But my goodness, you scatter that seed and by the power of God, it it finds the right soil and it grows. And and the power is not in the sower, the power is in the seed itself. So you don't need to get your words right, and you don't you don't even need to get your theology right for God to use that. I mean, you know, if the more Christ-centered you are, the better, because that's where the power is, but you don't have to have you know everything right in order to do evangelism.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um, Glenn. Why aren't people being saved when I preach uh Christ-centered gospel in Ogmore Vale? Some people have been, by the way, so I'm not sure shortchanging the work of the Holy Spirit here, but in the book of Acts, I mean is that my problem, Glenn?
SPEAKER_06Well, the book of Acts. Um I don't know. Well, actually, you know, I uh I've become aware quite recently of a of a group that um I won't I won't call a cult on air, but I've got s I've got sincere doubts about them, and uh and the whole thing is presented as we just need to get back to the book of Acts, and we just need to do exactly what we see in the book of Acts. And and I I don't know, all the people who are there in the book of Acts who went on to write the the rest of the New Testament never say that. They never say, let's get back to, you know, let's get back to squabbling over the Gentiles or you know, whatever, let's let's get back to Ananias and Sapphira, or you know, they they don't say let's get back to the book of Acts. They actually say, you know, try to lead a quiet life and you know be prepared, um, you know, uh to answer people. So um Jesus doesn't prepare us, I think, for um every day is gonna be like Pentecost. Jesus prepares us in Mark chapter four with this variety of reactions, and only one of those reactions actually ends up enduring with fruit. Um Satan snatches it away from the path, and the and the the thorns come and choke the seed on the other soil type, and the and the shallow kind of growth happens on the on the uh the rocky soil. This is this is what we're led to expect um in gospel preaching, and I think what we need to do is kind of get our joy from that fourth soil type, get your joy from from those few who have come to Christ, because you're gonna need that joy to help you to keep sowing on the other three soil types. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_03Uh do you expect like I'm being honest now, I'm getting worn down. Sometimes I get worn down by the lack of converts in the valley here, and you could look at Wales uh, you know, Wales wide. Yeah. Um we know we have a powerful God. We know uh the gospel is the power of God under salvation. So I have a place to be lit legitimately downhearted because I'm seeing few conversions. Um all right, so I shouldn't despair, but I don't excuse myself either. So why aren't people being saved? Now, people in other churches are listening here, some church leaders might be listening. If they haven't seen conversions, Glenn, what's going on there? I mean, you have sort of just answered it, it's to be expected, but yeah, conversions are to be expected as well, aren't they? Yeah. Um, when I preach the gospel, should I expect to see someone saved every time? And if not, should I be legitimately disappointed after sharing, gossiping, or preaching the gospel?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I mean, there's that famous saying by Spurgeon, and who knows how many of these sayings are apocryphal or not, but some you know, a a a preacher who's asked exactly that question to Spurgeon, and Spurgeon says, You don't expect someone to become a Christian every time you preach, do you? And the preacher said, Oh, of course not. And Spurgeon said, That's why! That's why let's you know um which sounds great, but who knows if he really said that. Um I d I Yeah, I I think our our heart's desire really should be to see salvation, because there's nothing wrong with the seed. Um the seed is powerful, and I and I think at points, weeping over the hard-heartedness of our congregation or the hard-heartedness of of those who hear the word is entirely appropriate. Um but at the end of the day, the power is in the seed, not in, you know, it's not like a flick of the wrist as the sower. That's that's kind of to do the job. And I I remember I my last sermon at a church I was at in London, and and just before I went away to Bible college, um, I was preaching at this church, and and probably half the people in front of me were not converted. And I was just I was just begging people to come to Christ, literally just begging them. I was in tears, I was an absolute mess afterwards. And um and a friend of mine came up to me after after that sermon and he put his hand on my shoulder and he absolutely transformed my mood in four words. And I I've I've never known such efficient pastoral care. You know, with four words, I'm I'm brought out of despair. And he just said, You sowed the seed. And he moved on. And I was like, okay, okay. And I think I I I think it's both. I think I think we do weep over the hard-heartedness of those who do not receive Christ. Uh, because it's a tragedy. Why wouldn't you want this Jesus? He's gone to hell and back for you. Why wouldn't you why would you not take this eternal life that's offered to you? It's absolutely tragic. Um but at the end of the day, uh you you do need someone to put his hand on your shoulder and say, Owen, you sowed the seed. Yeah. And that's what Jesus has called you to do. Not to the results department is his.
SPEAKER_03Do you see anything in Wales from churches and evangelism or the way they do services like broadly speaking, which frustrates you as an evangelist and you want us to change?
SPEAKER_06I don't know if I'd point out anything in Wales in particular. I mean, where wherever I go, it's and I get this less in Wales than in many other places, but wherever I go, that it's always a little heart-sinking when someone says, you know, uh and Billy's gonna read from Luke chapter 22, and then Glenn's gonna share a few thoughts about that. You know, I am not, I'm going to herald the living voice of Christ. That's what I'm gonna do. So uh yeah, people not taking the preaching seriously in that sense, people not expecting to hear from God in church, that's always disappointing.
SPEAKER_03Um I can think of one which I imagine would frustrate you, but like I said, I you often prove me wrong, and I've uh I can't pigeonhole you, but there's a I think there's a lack of trust in the power of the gospel for the last decade or so, and so there's a rise, and now perhaps an overemphasis on philosophical pseudo-Christian apologetics.
SPEAKER_06Now I just want to touch on this In the land of Lloyd Jones. Do they dare do they dare do that?
SPEAKER_03Tell me it's not so.
SPEAKER_02No, I'll leave you answering this first, but I'll come back. I think there's a different problem, possibly, um, or certainly something I want to throw in the mix for discussion anyway, but we'll we'll deal with this first because I think perhaps both uh maybe we're they're both are there and we need to find somewhere in the middle. But but go ahead, go ahead with this point first.
SPEAKER_03Okay, uh allow me to be the figure of controversy, but is apologetic evangelism or an overemphasis on it more than preaching the cross rising because people think like this, and I wonder if you have secretly. Um I know the reason people reject Jesus really is because of their sin. Okay, alright. That's the underlying reason, but but some people have genuine issues with parts of Christianity. It's not always to mask some adulterous scandal in their life that they can't bear confessing to God. They have legitimate issues because they type into Google Christianity and they come after one or two internet searches, they see apparent mistakes in the Bible, contradictions in the Bible, things that run contrary to what they hear in the normal world, quote unquote. So the churches, I think, are secretly thinking we don't really need revival anymore or the spirit to empower the gospel. We need to pull down these academic barriers before Jesus can even get a foothold into their lives. And it's all right, all right, people go to India and people are being saved, left, right, and sent, or an Eastern European, but they're dull because we're Westerners, we've got the real academic problems against Christianity that we have to face. So the problem with it is right, when I hear apologetics, I think they're interesting, but boy, does my heart sing when I hear about Jesus, my Lord, crucified. Nothing can touch that. That's my sort of answer to my own question. But Glenn, why is like what's going on with everything I just said? I don't even have a question, Glenn.
SPEAKER_06No, that was the the answer was embedded in the question. But um, yeah, I I think yeah, there does tend to be a spectrum on which um you address questions. And way over to the left hand side, people say, ah, um, every objection to Christian faith comes from a genuine and sincere questioner who, if you only gave them rational reasons, they would be able to get over that little hurdle and they would come gladly to trust in Christ. Um that's that's way over to the left. And then way over to the right, it's it's kind of every single so-called objection to Christian faith is a smokescreen for unbelief. Um, and I I I am pretty much all the way to the right. But I think in scriptures that, you know, there there are such people as inquirers. You know, you have you have a look in 1 Corinthians 14, and there are these outsiders who are coming into a Christian assembly, and you know, if they if they hear of Christ, they will fall down on their face and say, Surely God is among you. There is such a category as an inquirer, obviously only by the sovereign work of God. And so when when people come to me with questions, I've I've got to think, well, you know, perhaps the Spirit has brought them to a place where you know this issue is not really the issue, but it is an opportunity for me to preach the gospel again to them. It and and therefore, you know, there are there are lots of people who I want to treat sincerely if they've got objections and they've got questions. But the way in which I'll treat them sincerely is I want to reframe their objection entirely um and and replace it in in into a sort of a gospel setting that they've never heard of before. And so the the all of my answer to them is really going to be reframing their entire perception um with Jesus at the centre again. And so my my vision for for helping them to come to Christianity is not really a stepping stones thing. I don't think, you know, they are basically oriented towards the Christian ha home, and all I need to do is to get them from point A to B to C to D to E to F, and some somewhere around K they're a Christian. I think basically we we kind of invite them into the Christian home and say, look, this is gonna sound nuts, but look, there's this triune God, and you know, there's there's there's been this massive fall in Adam, and then Jesus the second Adam has come, and through his death and resurrection, he's put it right, and we can be one with him, and all those doctrines just sound nuts to the non-Christian, but that's okay. I think on the far side of pressing into this nuts story, it makes all the sense in the world, and it makes all the sense of their question as well, on the far side of things. So on the far side of having given them the grand tour of the house, you sit down with a cup of tea and you say, now, about that question on suffering. Now do you see why a Christian thinks X, Y, and Z? Yeah. Um So it depends what you mean by apologetics. Um if all you mean by apologetics is thoughtful, contextualized gospel proclamation, then go for your life. But if it starts to mean rationally taking people step by step along the stepping stones and kind of agreeing to some kind of intellectual neutrality while you're doing it, and and then, you know, at some stage crowbarring Jesus in. Yeah, that's not a pol that's that's not what I want to see happen.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02Sorry, Jeremy, I cut you off, brother. No, no, no, no. I I wanted to explore that area. I I I think there's another aspect uh of in Welsh churches in that we're we're comfort comfortable in our sort of religious orthodoxy. Right. We know the right stuff. As you say, that the heritage there, you know, the Lloyd jokes and things like this. Um But when people look at us, there's two things that they don't see. One is we're not going into the community and being part of the community and inviting people into the church. It's almost like a club. You're in, enjoy it, it lets settle down in front of good, solid preaching and and praise the Lord for that. Um but but we've got to get out into the community as well, and also I think there's got to be consistency in our living. So when people look at us, do they say, you know, we're we're supposed to be uh lights, uh city set on the hill? Uh are we the sort of city that that people look at and think, I want to go into that city? Uh it doesn't mean that we we doesn't mean we compromise the word of God, but it does mean that we're I don't know, whether we're we're different in a way. I mean, uh how much of that is you know, what from from what you've seen, from your experience, how much does the the life of the Christians involved uh how important is that in backing up the message that they're bringing?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, it's it's massive, I think. Because so often people want to play off the holiness of the church and the mission of the church. As though on the one hand we need to be um divided off from the world and With our backs to the world facing God, and on the other hand, every now and again, I guess it would be a good idea to go out into the world and hold our noses and you know, get into the you know the the world and and I think that if if you if you've got such a stark view of that that there's holiness on the one s on the one side, and then there's evangelistic sorties into enemy territory every now and again on the other, I I think that's that's going to be a killer for evangelism. So what I'm always trying to do is to get people to think of a kind of a down and out spirituality. Um, you go back to Isaiah's day, and he coined the phrase holier than thou. And he coined the phrase holier than thou for these people who in Isaiah chapter 65 God says they are a smoke in my nostrils. You know, that he God can't stand the holier than thou types who are on their little holiness perches and they just want to stay on their holiness perches, and they say, Do not come near to me, for I am more holy than you. And if we if we don't understand the gospel, then we're gonna think that my my whole job as a Christian is to try to stay on my holiness perch and not to get knocked off it by this dark world that's out there. And then holiness will be me trying to establish a link between myself and God in this vertical sense. Whereas the gospel obviously is that in Christ, that vertical link is as strong as it could possibly be. I am united to him, everything is sweet now between me and God, and in Christ and by the Spirit I am sent out to the nations, um, and that the godly flow is not up and in, which is the holier than thou spirituality, but that the flow is now down and out. You know, having received Christ by the Spirit, I join him on mission to the nations. Then suddenly holiness and godliness is about joining Jesus and getting out there among people. And I think we really need to get that sense of what holiness looks like. Holiness looks like being with Christ and where is Christ? Hebrews 13, verse 12 says Christ was sacrificed outside the city gate. Let us therefore go to him outside the camp. Um so that actually my my holiness is not the thing that I do on Sunday morning and then I hold my nose for the rest of the week. But I get filled up on Sunday morning to flow out into the week with Jesus and to know him all the more as I reach out with people. So I think whatever we can do to kind of smash down those walls between holiness and mission, I I try to do that all the time. It's it's it starts out as a theological problem and then needs to bed itself down in our hearts.
SPEAKER_03What do you think of this quote which is linked to what you just said? It's from Mez McConnell's book on whatever it's called, something church. I had to write a review on it. Jimmy, what's it called? I don't know. Sorry, I can't remember. I wrote the review for the MW. Oh, Church in Hard Places, I think. Okay. Mez said, when we stopped handing out he went to this church and he said when we stopped handing out tracts, knocking on doors, and singing carols on the street, I was accused by a vocal few of killing evangelism. Yet when I encouraged these same believers to engage with locals, find out what questions they were asking, get involved with their lives, and share their faith naturally, I was treated like some sort of leper. The problem is evangelism and discipleship require huge amounts of time and effort, more than many believers are prepared to give. It requires us to love people patiently throughout the week, going over the same material again and again. What do you think of that, Glenn Scrivener?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and and I think because it takes so much time, you then have all sorts of questions about well, how many meetings a week at church am I expected to be at? And and you've you've got, you know, it's it's it's often that your best Christians, your your strongest, most going-for it Christians are in church like three, four nights a week. They've got a you know, they've got a family to take care of and and they're working hard, and and where on earth do you find time to just to be in your neighbourhood? Where do you find time to join the fireside, you know, tournament and and and all the rest of it? Um the Zumba class or start a book club or whatever it is, you know, I I and and I and I love what Mez kinda is talking about there and and um you know and and Tim Chester in Unreached and and um books like that. That I think it it very much is a philosophy of, you know, do what you love and take Jesus with you. And and therefore if you if you love if you love Zumba, then seriously go and do Zum Zumba to the glory of God. You can you can go and do Zumba to the glory of God. And that and and in many circumstances that might be a a better way to spend the night than going to the prayer meeting in church. It might be. I mean that's that sounds blasphemous, doesn't it? But um if we've got a down and out spirituality, um it it might in certain circumstances be uh the godly option to go to the Zumba class and not go to the Bible study on the Wednesday night. Who knows?
SPEAKER_03Well, I think we just lost three quarters of our listeners on Him, weren't they? This is some liberal podcast we've got, haven't they? No, uh uh Amen and Amen. Um uh Jimmy, I'm coming up to the last we've been about 40 minutes. I'm coming up to one more other thing I want to say. You've got anything else pressing?
SPEAKER_02Um not nothing. I I've got plenty of questions, but uh they can they can wait for another time for Nick.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because we could do like 10 episodes on this, can't we?
SPEAKER_06You could always ask me and then just hack the uh yeah, hack it's my answer.
SPEAKER_03Scribbing them back again and again and again. Um, Glenn, when you preach evangelistically, actually, I'm gonna accuse you of something now, Glenn, but it might be accusing you of something really good. Um when you preach or write books, you're massive on the love of God for sinners.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, sorry about that. Sorry about that repent.
SPEAKER_03And that God is love, and all I'm a fan of that, yeah, yeah. Okay, right, but uh you know, as we should be. But is there a danger, Glenn, that we don't major enough on the fear of God, the massive emphasis in the Bible that that God has on the anger against sin, the need to repent. And I tell you why I'm asking because someone said to me the other day, we have loads of conversations in our church, we have QA, people are really open and honest. And one of the questions we were talking about homosexuals, and um someone said, Well, so homosexual people, if they're not allowed to indulge in this sin and have um a sexual relationship, are they supposed to be unhappy for the rest of their lives? And my answer was, Well, if you follow Jesus, he doesn't leave you unhappy. And there, and in comes now the Glenn Scrivener and Mike Reeves emphasis that God is love and he's amazing, and the Bible emphasis that God is all fulfilling and satisfactory. But as I was walking home, I thought, Did that person ask that question? Because for a while I haven't put the right amount of emphasis on to be honest, mate, he's God, and we're not, and we're called to be slaves, and he saved us from the clutch of hell, and we're fortunate for that. And if he says, Go down this road and it ain't gonna make you happy, we should do it anyway. So, where should the balance be struck with the fear of God, repentance, and the love of God, and the awe fulfilling nature of God? And I mean, was even that a question? I don't know, Glenn. You know what I mean.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, as soon as John says God is love and went on 4, verse 8, he then says, you know, this is how he showed his love among us. God sent his son to uh was it to to live among us, and then this is love, not that we love God, but that he loved us and sent his son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins, as a propitiation for our sins. That actually the love that ends verse 10 is exactly the love that is in verse 8. God is this love that is expressed in the wrath-bearing sacrifice of Christ, this fiery, you know, um wrath-enduring, bloody sacrifice that Jesus makes. So the love that God is is not a cup of tea and a sit-down, right? The love that God is is furious love. It is all-consuming, passionate, jealous, devoted, committed, fiery love. And to be on the inside of it, yes, that is the sunshine of his love. To be on the outside of it is the consuming fire of his judgments, and how God is a consuming fire. Um so I t I just don't see that those two things are like opposites. In the same way that holiness and mission are not these opposites that you need to balance. Um rather, when you press into what the holiness of God is, the holiness of God is Christ dying for the nations and sending you out, and therefore you press into holiness and on the other side you find mission. I think in the same way, when you press into God is love, this all-consuming fiery passion, it it thrusts you on the other side too, yeah. And and I am now bound up in this God who is love. I am his slave, I belong to him, he is he has entirely purchased me at the cross, and I can do no other than be a slave of Christ. Um and I th I so I think there is a slavery on the far side of sonship. Um there's a slavery on the near side of sonship, which is exactly what Paul is writing against in Galatians, and it's you know, it's total legalism that I just enslave myself to God, but I have no idea that he's my father or that Christ is Lord. I d I'm just you know enslaving myself to God. That's that's just legalistic parasitical nonsense. So there's a slavery on the near side of sonship, but on the far side of sonship, I come through this love language and this union language, and I realize that I am utterly possessed by Jesus and I can do nothing else than what he commands me to do. Um so I d I j I refuse the dilemma, you know.
SPEAKER_02I I well it isn't isn't the isn't the the the catechism answer, isn't it? God and enjoy him.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_02However, though those two are bound together, the the glorifying of God and the enjoying him, um you know, if you if you follow if you follow God, then you you will enjoy him. That's natural, isn't it? Surely I I would say that's too owing that's too owing not to you so much. Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_06But to go to go back to the person who asked your question, Owen, you know, and and if someone says, uh, well, if someone's calling me to repent of a homosexual lifestyle and to come to Christ, yeah, that is gonna cost them massively. But it it costs everyone to repent and believe. It costs everyone to run against the grain of the flesh and the world and the devil. It does cost everyone to run against that grain. Um and and it is the way of the cross that Christ is is calling us to. There is no other love to be participating in than the love of the crucified Christ. Okay? So as he calls me to himself, again, he's not calling me to a cup of tea and a sit-down. What he's calling me to is to walk the road of Golgotha, because he's punched a hole through death and come out the other side, and he says, Well, come this way. And that is the way of the cross that I'm meant to be walking, and it will mean saying no to all sorts of ridiculous things in this world that are enticing. And it is enticing to have a sex life. And I and and maybe saying yes to Jesus means saying no to a sex life, and that's gonna hurt, and that's gonna be costly. Um and and I don't want to diminish that or minimize that at all. Um, but there does come a point where Jesus says in Mark chapter 10, you know, Peter says, We've left everything to follow you. And I think I think Jesus at that point is like, Come on, brother, come on, what really? Like, even in this life you're gonna receive a hundred times more. Um so like yes, the sacrifice, and yes, it means denying the flesh and going the way of the cross. Um but even in this life we receive a hundred times more, and actually all of that is is predicated on and and bound up in the love of God. And if if we divorce our calls to discipleship from that love of God, then it does just start sounding really arbitrary from God, you know. Why does why does God call me away from having a sex life? It could sound like as arbitrary. If he he says no to homosexuality, is that just as arbitrary as if he said, and you're not allowed to hop on one foot on a Tuesday? But you have to, you know, you you have to hop on a right on your right foot on Thursdays and Fridays. Like, like, is it as arbitrary as that? No, it's not as arbitrary as that. Let me tell you this love story in which your sexuality makes sense. And and then it yeah, so you've got to tie it all together and not just play off love and holiness.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, great. Can I can I I so I'm gonna I'm gonna ask another one because uh I'm I'm conscious we may not get the chance again. He may, having been through this podcast with us, he may say that's like lynched next time I come to whales. So I will so I will uh I will ask you now. One thing that struck me as you've as you've been answering these questions, Glenn, is that um you're constant going back to to scripture uh and and version. How important in evangelism sharing the gospel is a knowledge of your Bible and and to be reading every day so that you're ready to give that answer. How important is that for the loss?
SPEAKER_03Hang on, you're just equated knowing the Bible and reading it every day, Jimmy. Was that a purposeful equation?
SPEAKER_02Um it was just it was just me nervously asking a question, but uh I I'm just saying um obviously the more you read it, the more you will you will recall and understand. But but maybe that's a whole question for different part because.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, no, I think I think it is because if if the power is in the word, just like the life-givingness is in the seed, um you you need to know your Bible. And I don't mean it in this magical sense, as though if you actually happen to memorize verbatim, you know, whichever verse it is from scripture in the NIV or in the ESV or whatever, then suddenly that magically um ha has the power to bring about salvation. So I it's not like that. I think we need to have a good doctrine of scripture that says, as we began this interview with, that all the scripture is about Christ, and that John 5, verse 39, these things testify about me, says Jesus. So it's very important that as you're dropping in scripture, it's it's all about painting a biblical portrait of Christ, not just, you know, um quoting from the Bible. So I to impress. To impress. So it's not it's not about this magical belief that a certain form of words is going to save people, but it is about saying, Well, look, the Holy Spirit has authored these words about Jesus, and he seems to think they're pretty good, so let's let's try and shape our words by the word of God. And I I I do think this this is a topic for another podcast, but I I do think that as we shape our little words by the written word of the Bible, and as those words point to the eternal word that is Christ, I think at that point we are declaring the word of God. Even even over a coffee and Starbucks, even at the water cooler at work, whatever, I I think as our little words are shaped by the written word of God, and as they point to the eternal word of God, um, we are declaring God's word to people. And God's word's powerful. It brought heaven and earth into existence. So it I I think, you know, so absolutely, be be shaped by scripture, but not just script scripture in the abstract, a Christ-centered view of scripture. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much, Glenn. I've got four questions to end on quick fire. Should you ever feel guilty as a Christian, yes or no? Yes and no. Alright, you've got to give me more.
SPEAKER_06Uh I think, you know, according to the flesh, what have I done? I've I've just done that thing and it it ruins relationships, and there's all sorts of things that I need to set to set right. But according to my spirit and in in according to my conscience, uh, I am as righteous in God's sight as Jesus Christ is. And I'm wholly, righteous, and free from accusation, says uh Colossians 1 verse 21. So, yeah, let the let the let the word of condemnation fall on your flesh and allow it to kind of you know make you think, come on, don't be an idiot, Glenn, next time. So allow the allow whatever condemnation that you're feeling to fall on your flesh, but never allow it to fall in, you know, on your conscience. Uh by the Spirit you are one with Christ and you are wholly righteous and free from accusation in him.
SPEAKER_03Next question. Uh youth meetings, they're sort of falling out of favour at the moment. The emphasis on youth work in churches. I think people are worried that churches are justifying themselves by putting on loads and loads of work for young people, but they never actually really talk to any of their parents about the gospel, therefore, confusing evangelism. Is that a right uh confusion or wrong confusion?
SPEAKER_06Well, I think I think families need to be taking responsibility for their own and parents need not to kind of uh divest themselves of their responsibility with their children and hand their children over to the youth worker as though the youth worker is going to be the disciple. But it it is true that teenagers get to a certain age when they don't listen to their parents very much, and they they do need those older mentors within the church. And if it can be a holistic, family-loving, church-wide ministry that has a focus on youth, then that that can be a good thing. Um, but just hiving off your teenagers to you know to a Friday night uh is is is not the greatest way forwards, no.
SPEAKER_03And my friend sent that question because he knew you were you were on. But um, you know, we have 20 we had 20 little people, little kids were on the primary club last Thursday. They heard the gospel, whether their parents have or not, which their parents have, by the way, but they are hearing it. So that is evangelism, isn't it? That's wonderful.
SPEAKER_06That's fantastic.
SPEAKER_03Next question. Um, did you watch WrestleMania this week? No. Was it good? And was it? And last question.
SPEAKER_06I haven't watched in 25 years, but yeah. I used to. I used to love it.
SPEAKER_03Good. Uh last question. Where can people find you, hear you, read you, what's coming up in your life? Uh we close with a shameless self-promotion, Glenn. Get the word out there.
SPEAKER_06Oh well, if you're on Twitter, I'm uh at Glenn Scrivener, uh, Glenn with one in. Um, or my blog is Christhetruth.net. And that is amazing.
SPEAKER_03That legitimately is amazing.
SPEAKER_06Oh well, there's yeah, I I haven't really blogged that much in the last few years, but there's yeah, there's quite a lot of archive stuff. And uh for instance on Christ in the Old Testament, there's a little link there. So you can work your way through the Christ in the Old Testament uh blog. That is gold. Okay. All right. I'm gonna put that on the on the homepage.
SPEAKER_03Oh, in Batstone.
SPEAKER_02Gold That is gold.
SPEAKER_03I keep me off your homepage if you want people to come on to them. Um what are you releasing anything, books, books while he's coming out or anything like that?
SPEAKER_06So I've I've got an Easter book out called Love Story, the myth that really happens, and uh that's kind of talking about Easter as Jesus is the hero of heroes, and and and Easter is the the true story of the you know, the real the real knight who's slain the dragon to win the bride. Um uh so that's out at the moment, and we've got a video that is supporting that coming out just in uh in a few days. Uh so that's a uh those are some Easter resources and plenty of other resources at uh speaklife.org.uk uh in which we've got all sorts of uh resources for evangelists.
SPEAKER_02Will you be doing a poem like uh the because I love those the the Christmas poem and the Halloween poems and things like that? It's a poem.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I haven't got a poem for this one, but uh I'm working on a couple of new uh poems.
SPEAKER_03Is it a poem? Is it a song? I I'd uh what would you call the uh it's called the Anti Santi Ranti, Jimmy. Oh, that's that one.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah. There's a few there's a few like that. Um so yeah, I mean, yeah, this this next video.
SPEAKER_03Uh we we've had great success with videos where I am not on camera, and so we're gonna we're gonna continue for me to be heard and not seen, which is uh my favourite video is when you're talking about um judgment which falls on the church and you put the wrong biro colour in, and instead of starting the video again, you just scribble over it with a different colour.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah, that's how I roll. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Alright, and um how come the listeners here pray for you and your family and your work?
SPEAKER_06Thank you. Uh I'm I'm away quite a lot in the next month, so that's that's hard on uh Emma, my wife, and and Ruby, our daughter. Um so pray for fruitful times as I go and preach around the place, but pray that they would really uh know protection and and know Jesus in those times as well. Emma's got a book coming out uh actually, yeah, it's it's it'll be out in now, really, Easter time. So called A New Day.
SPEAKER_03And uh Which will be worth buying because she's sort of an even better version of you, isn't she?
SPEAKER_06Oh, she's amazing. She's a she's a proper writer, you know. People yeah. People say I like her book, but she's I'm not even the best I'm not even the best writer in my family.
SPEAKER_03It's yeah, it's She's got insight. Jimmy, she's got a blog as well, or whatever it is whatever it's called. She's quite prophetic. It's quite something. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Check out born out of experience. Absolutely, yeah. Check out Emma Scrivener.net. Yeah, she's awesome.
SPEAKER_03Thank you, Glenn. Thank you so much for talking to me.
SPEAKER_04Talking to us. And thank you, Jimmy. That was Owen Batstone and James Hughes talking to you, Glenn.
SPEAKER_06And uh what is their podcast and where can you Yeah, so if you go to Calvaryogmore.co.uk, uh that's that's Owen's church, and uh the podcast interviews are on the website. And uh like I say, there are uh interviews from the likes of Dick Lucas and Stuart Olliott as well as myself. So just say that again, Calv Calvary, as in where Jesus died, and then Ogmore, O-G-M-O-R-E. Calvary Ogmore. Ogmore Vale is the place where he's a minister. Calvary's the name of the church. So Calvaryogmore.co.uk.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_04So if you like this episode of the Evangelist Podcast, do subscribe. You can do that by going to speaklife.org.uk slash TEP. And uh you'll find links there to also give us a rating review on iTunes or other places like Stitcher. That would be uh helpful. Uh it helps us to get seen by more people. You can rate um without leaving a review. So I think probab about ten people have put five stars but not reviewed. Which is fine.
SPEAKER_06But we've yeah, I mean I think I think I said I guessed something like twenty-four or something reviews last week. But no, we've had twenty-five five star reviews. Thank you very much, guys. Who cares? It does but it does help us get seen.
SPEAKER_04So yeah. Okay. Well that's it for this week. Next week.
SPEAKER_00Next week.
SPEAKER_06Uh we've got Glenn Harrison, uh, author of many books, including The Big Ego Trip, which is a great book uh out with IVP a few years ago, uh, about um I must read that. I must read the ego. Yeah, it would help you to understand your work, colleagues. Um it's it's about um well that that book was uh fascinating about this sort of cult of self-esteem that we all need to feel good about ourselves and just how um he's he is uh he's the emeritus professor of psychiatry at uh Bristol University. He knows what he's talking about, and he's just saying, actually, all the research on this sort of self-esteem nonsense is j it's all bunk. Um and we're we're just telling ourselves lies about how wonderful we are, um, and it's not doing anyone any favours. His latest book, A Better Story, is about how the Christian vision for sex and sexuality is good news for the world. But the way we're going to convince the world that it's it's good news uh is not simply through facts and figures, and not simply through bashing them over the head with Thou Shalt Not, but actually painting a more vibrant, compelling picture of the beauty of sex and marriage in the Christian vision. And so how do we tell a better story that will reach the world on a very contentious issue in which we're probably minded as evangelists to kind of maybe just keep quiet on this issue because it's just gonna cause a fight. So what do we what can we do evangelistically? I think it'll be fascinating to talk to Glenn about what we can do, um yeah, what we can do as evangelists on this issue that's not just a defensive move, but actually a positive stepping forwards and saying, actually the Bible is good and it's right. And it's but it's not just right, it's good and it's true and it's beautiful. And how do we actually convey the Christian message about sex and sexuality as good news? Um, that's what we're gonna talk about.
SPEAKER_04Okay, well look forward to that next week. Okay, I think we're done here.
SPEAKER_06We are so through. This is not you and me, Andy. No. But yeah, this this episode. It's it's over. It's over. Are we gone? Okay, bye.