Today on the Evangelist Podcast we talk to Ray Comfort.
SPEAKER_00The Evangelist Podcast. Encouragement to speak life to a needy world. With Glenn Scrivener and Andy Brinkley.
SPEAKER_04Welcome back to the Evangelist Podcast. This is the show where we seek to encourage you in your Christian faith. Witness to the world. I'm Andy Brinkley and with Miss Glenn Scrivener.
SPEAKER_02Hello, everybody.
SPEAKER_04We're going to be talking to a very special guest.
SPEAKER_02Very special. How about that? Our first New Zealander on the podcast. First up we had the Welter. And uh and Australian and the English.
SPEAKER_04Well uh need an introduction. It's uh an international uh evangelist, street preacher, street preacher, speaker, and author, filmmaker, yeah, and equipper in evangelism uh the world over.
SPEAKER_02I don't know how many people we should ask right how many people the way of the master has actually uh equipped in evangelism. It's gotta be hundreds of thousands.
SPEAKER_04I don't know. I mean the first I heard of of uh Living Waters Ministry was uh someone passed on the website and uh it had loads and loads of resources of um tracks you could download and product. That came up just after the TV program came out.
SPEAKER_02Yes, the Webmaster.
SPEAKER_04So we hope to ask some good questions in the time that we've got some good answers. So we're gonna say sort of how we came into contact with uh with the big men.
SPEAKER_02Uh I we we did our quick video uh this year. It's got a called He Came Down and it got shared uh very widely at I think probably a quarter of a million views just for that video. We we re-released 10 versus that got about um about 350,000 views. 250,000 of them from uh a church and all the video to their own uh Facebook page. Okay, so bless them, bless them at all. Um they took the line's share of those. Um but that's fine because it's all that got and uh the he came down with our special needs activity where uh all the actors had Down syndrome, and uh we told the uh the story of uh Christ's birth uh uh using those actors and interviewing a um a mother of a child with Down syndrome. And um I think it was a it was a very moving video. I was really pleased with the way it came out. And uh Josh Williamson, who we've had on the program a number of times, who's in in Brisbane in uh Queensland in Australia, he shared it with Ray Comfort. And Ray Comfort put it on his Facebook page, and then Josh thought, oh, why don't these guys get together? And so uh yeah, we we uh sorted out time for the fifth fifth. Shout out to Josh Winter.
SPEAKER_04And uh you were speaking at uh several uh was it Durham Cathedral that you went to for the uh Durham University?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so that's yeah, where else and when else do you get this opportunity to speak to 3,000 people about data? They gladly come to sing, oh come let us adore deterrent. They come by their thousands, and so yeah, I mean last year I did um Norwich Cathedral, this year I did Durham Cathedral, and I think the students are really grabbing hold of it as an opportunity. You know, Newcastle University recently, um, you know, uh a few years back, they would have a Carol service and maybe they get a hundred people, and and that was a great result for them as a as a small CU in a in a larger university. And then uh Adrian Holloway kind of challenged them to say, why don't you get in touch with the you know Newcastle Cathedral and they did, and all of a sudden they they get you know a thousand bucks um coming along. And and uh and I think these cathedral services uh have such potential people rammed into uh dark cathedral people. Yeah, based at the pulpit uh you know crammed at the back and there were sort of you know standing three dip at the back and things like that. So yeah, got to preach there, which was a huge privilege. And and you know you set up so beautifully with all the different readings and the carols and John chapter one, which is one of my favorite chapters in in all of scripture. So yeah, and uh so I I did that at uh Durham Cathedral and and uh lots of other Christmas opportunities. But um already I'm thinking about next Christmas and how we how we take advantage of these opportunities because uh yeah, it's it's incredible how many people you can gather under the standard gospel. And it's just so worth thinking creatively about how to uh how to really uh make make use of these opportunities.
SPEAKER_04You've also been uh very busy with uh moving house at the same time. Day-to-day living.
SPEAKER_02So I'll go back to a whole bunch of boxes. Uh that's uh that's fine. That's part of moving just with an eight point. But um yeah, and uh big things getting ready for the uh Easter. So just uh sending off the final manuscript for uh uh my Easter book and working together with Alex Webb Petler, who is the illustrator for Cannibal last year's Easter video. Uh he's gonna help out again with some illustrations of a video called Love Story. Right. So that's the big idea behind the uh the Easter book is that uh Easter is the myth that really happened. So it takes uh every other story that we always tell: stories like tragedy and comedy, stories like Rags to Richards, stories about the boy getting the girl, killing the dragon, saving the maiden, um going on a voyage and returning, going on a great quest, and um all these stories that we tell. There are there are only so many stories that you can tell. Um Christopher Brooker has written a book called The Seven Stories that we all tell. And really, when you look at them all, they're all basically telling the gospel. It's all about going on a journey on a quest that turns tragedy into comedy and uh rags to riches overcoming the monster. All these things are really uh kind of refractions and diffractions of the gospel story. My little Easter book here is uh telling love story how data in uh is uh Morty Thursday and then Good Friday and Easter Sunday is actually fulfilling all the great myths, all the great love stories, all the great adventure stories. Uh with the wonderful difference that it actually happened. And you can be part of the story. So um so we're working on the video for that. And uh yeah, as I say, handing in the uh the manuscript for that this week and uh hopefully it'll be out soon.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Sounds uh sounds intriguing. Good. Well, uh I think it's about that time, so um we've got a phone up.
SPEAKER_02Bring on Ray.
SPEAKER_01Hi, Ray Comfort speaking.
SPEAKER_02Hello, Ray. Glenn Scrivener calling here.
SPEAKER_01How are you doing, Glen?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, really well, thank you. I've got Andy Brinkley with me as well.
SPEAKER_01Hi, Ray. Hi, Andy, where are you calling from?
SPEAKER_02We are in Eastbourne on the south coast of England.
SPEAKER_01Oh, well, that's very nice. I love England, God save the Queen. And fill her with the Holy Spirit and set her on a mission to reach the last.
SPEAKER_02She is an amazing speaker, isn't she? Do you ever tune into her Christmas messages?
SPEAKER_01No, I haven't this year, but I have another. I've quoted them because she often refers to the scriptures and the gospel.
SPEAKER_02I stole part of her evangelistic uh message just uh just this Christmas. Uh I think she did a wonderful thing a couple of uh a couple of Christmases ago. She did a thing where she kind of led the whole nation in a prayer. Oh, little child of Bethlehem, descend to us, we pray, cast out our sin and enter in, be born in us today. And uh I've been leading people in that kind of prayer uh at at Christmas time ever since. She's a yeah, she's a great evangelist.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's great.
SPEAKER_02Well, one question we we like to ask evangelists is uh how did your own conversion shape your convictions about evangelism today? I asked that question because, you know, sometimes if people get converted through street preaching, they uh often have a very, you know, uh high place for street preaching, or if they get converted by reading the Bible, they love to then get scriptures into people's hands. Um have you done any thinking into how your own conversion shaped the way you do evangelism today?
SPEAKER_01Oh yes. Definitely. The moment I was saved, uh I had an evangelistic zeal. Um most people don't they don't realize what the motivation is for reaching the last, but for me, it's a a burning gratitude that I that it's a high octane fuel that drives me to uh reach the lost because I love God and I love uh unsaved people and I'm deeply concerned, and it seems that much of the church has forgotten the hell exists, and they're busying themselves and and so many other things. So Oswald J. Smith said, Oh my friends, we're loaded down with countless church activities, while the real work of the church, that of evangelizing and winning the lost, was almost entirely neglected. But the moment I was saved and and God saved me out of the pit of death and I was given everlasting life, I exploded with gratitude and immediately uh got a printing press and put it in my home and began to print gospel tracts. Uh I got a a billboard and put it in front of a house with scripture on. I had professional sign writing put on my car. I uh I uh purchased a huge 34-seater bus and had Jesus said, I'm the way, the truth, and life, professionally signwritten and full-high lettering. And the gift of God is eternal life on the other side, on the front window of my store, my shop, I used to have my own business, uh, I put John chapter 3, verses 1 to 16 and 3-inch high professional lettering. And also a witness to anyone I I met, not as a wide-eyed crazy man, but I just bore the subject up and I got a soapbox and put it in the heart of our city and began preaching uh in Christchurch, New Zealand. Do that almost every day for twelve years. So if anyone could be considered a religious fanatic in those days, it was fake. Today, uh I'm much worse. Um any means possible. Uh I am horrified of the thought of any human being go to hell. And so through television, through media, through social media, uh the printed uh audio, anything. Uh we've got to shout it from the house top, so let our light shine. Because this world is is is literally going to hell, uh, a very real hell, and that should horrify even a hardest-hearted Christian.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Um, Ray, you've you've uh made some wonderfully uh creative tracks. Uh you mentioned your tracks. Um, how do you get the ideas for your tracts?
SPEAKER_01Well, my father was very creative. Um, if you read Genesis chapter one, you'll see how creative he was. And so I asked God to help me and give me wisdom. And um, you know, tracts in 30, 40 years ago were tremendously boring to have a picture of a pastor holding a Bible in black and white on the front, and then Bible verses right from the beginning, and there was no kind of subtlety to them, no um creativity. So uh we try to make our tracks so exciting that non-Christians will ask for more, and that's why they do. I think something like 300 million have been uh distributed. So that's very exciting.
SPEAKER_02Do you have good stories about about tracks? Because sometimes people poo-poo tracts and they just think it's a it's a waste of a printing press. But but do you do you see them being effective in your own ministry?
SPEAKER_01Oh, yes, yes. Um, God uses tracts, and so should we. He uses tracts to save people. The tracts are his written word. He used the written word uh to give us his word, his uh new and old testament are the written word. So when you take a gospel tract, you're taking part of that. And the uh the advantage of a gospel tract is that the person can read it at their pleasure, they're not feeling pressured, and uh they can read it or not read it, and they take it with them and they don't they can't argue with it. Uh Hudson Taylor, the great missionary, was saved through gospel tracts. One of our uh members of our staff read a gospel tract and it led him to Christ. So I use tracts everywhere. In fact, I've said for many years if anyone ever finds me in public without a gospel tract, I'll give them a thousand dollars. Someone saw me in a swimming pool once and went, uh-huh. I thought it was foggy out of my pocket and said, uh huh. And that will ever, ever find me in public without tracks because what they do is they they they give me an inroad. I can see a complete stranger. We've got a coin uh with the ten commandments on one side, it's not plastic, it's made of metal, it's got to C value, and the gospel on the other side. So if I'm riding my bike and I see a stranger, I can just approach a stranger without any intimidation and say, Hey, good morning. He says, Yeah, good morning. I said, I'll give you one of these. He said, What is it? I said, It's a Ten Commandments coin. It's got the gospel on the other side. And then I say, Do you think there's an afterlife? And he says, I don't know. I said, What's your name? He says, Fred. I said, Fred, do you think about it? He says, Yeah, all the time. So you're going to heaven when you die, are you a good person? He says, Yeah, I'm a really good person. Because almost every man will proclaim his own goodness, as it says in Proverbs. And so, well, let's have a check. Let's go through the Ten Commandments and see if you're going to make it to heaven. And it's such an inroad for me to have either a gospel tract or a uh coin with the Ten Commandments on it, just to bring that subject up, because that's the intimidating factor when it comes to sharing your faith. It's how do you bring the subject up? Well, the strange rock tracts give you an excuse to do it, because when you give someone a gospel tract, you can say, Oh, this is a gospel tract. Hey, do you think there's an afterlife? And uh and everyone has an opinion about that.
SPEAKER_04Ray, the message on your tracts and in your teaching, such as Hell's Best Kept Secret, you speak of the importance of law gospel preaching. Why is that so vital today?
SPEAKER_01Well, Jesus showed us how to do it. Mark 10, verse 17. Richard Worley comes running to him, kneels down, and says, Good master, what shall I do to an hair eternal life? So, well, that's just such a neat thing. Someone asking how to get saved. So, what did Jesus do? Lead him in a sinner's prayer, talk about God's love or a wonderful plan? No. Firstly, he reproved a man of his understanding of the word good. He said, Why do you call me good? There's none good but God. Uh you know the commandments. And then he gave him five commandments. Why would he do that? To bring the knowledge of sin. If you want to give someone a cure to a disease, you don't just go up and say, Hey, excuse me, I've got a cure for you. He said, What are you talking about? It's a great cure, please take it. Get out of my face, you guys. But if you take the time to to point out ten clear symptoms of a terminal disease, and he realizes he's got the disease, then when you bring out the cure, he's gonna appreciate it and appropriate it. But what we've done is we've taken the cure of the gospel and say, You need Jesus Christ. He died on the cross for you. And people say, Get out of my face. I don't want this stuff. What you must do is what Jesus did in a similar amount and open up the divine law, open up the Ten Commandments, and show that God considers lust to be adultery, hatred to be murder. Every idle word a man speaks, he'll give an account for in the day of judgment. We've got to do what Paul did in Romans chapter 2. You say you shall not steal, do you steal? Do you say you shall not commit adultery? Do you commit adultery? What's he doing? He's speaking to the conscience, the work of the law written on the heart. He's doing what Nathan did with David, who had violated so many commandments when he committed adultery, committed murder, coveted his neighbor's wife, lived a life, dishonored his parents. He violated all the commandments. So what did Nathan do? Nathan gave a natural story about a man stealing another man's lamb. And when David said, That man shall pay back fourfold and he shall die, that's when Nathan said, You are the man. Why have you despised the commandment of the Lord? And then David cried, I've sinned against God. And then, once there was a knowledge of sin, Nathan brought the gospel, the good news. Nevertheless, you shall not die, for God has put away your sin. And so what we must do is be like Nathan and approach people in rather than gentleness, beginning the natural and say, You know the commandments. You know, let's go through them. You've broken the commandments. What are you going to do on judgment day? You're heading for hell, the Bible says. I don't want that to happen to you. Do you know what God did? He's put away your sin. Christ died on the cross for the punishment so that you could have everlasting life. And so the the patent is laid out for us in Scripture, and yet we've gone our own way and we've reaped a mess for the church, the modern church being filled with false converts.
SPEAKER_02You're very you're very good at whether because I mean you open out your methods to people, so that I mean I I must have seen gospel conversations that you've had a hundred times with different people, and I think that's a tremendous blessing to the church that we can sort of peer over your shoulder as you're having these conversations with people. But one of the things I notice is that you're very good at assuring the other person that, even though you're going after conviction of sin, that you are on their side. Um that that seems very important to me, that you're you're you're not just saying you sinner over there, but come on, we're we're all in the same boat together, we're all sinners, aren't we? We all need a saviour, don't we? How do you how do you go about assuring the other person that you are for them, even as you're trying to convict them of sin?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think I think the motivation will do it for you. You know, I like to say to people, don't pray for less fear, pray for more love.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01That that'll get you reaching out for love. So if you have love in your heart and you're deeply concerned, you know, you're not out to get a notch on your belt. You know, often I I've seen people uh probably motivated by their theology almost um mechanically preaching the gospel on the street corner, holding a Bible, not many people are listening, but it doesn't matter I'm just doing my duty. Now our uh our duty is to make sure that sinners uh repent and trust the Savior, that they understand uh their plight. You know, Philip the Evangelist said to Ethiopian eunuch, do you understand what you're reading? The good soil hearer hears and understands. So that's why I continually say to the person I'm speaking to, does this make sense? You know, does it is it is it, you know, yelling with you? Do you understand what I'm trying to say to you? That you're in big need of savior. And my confidence is in two things. The work of the law written on their heart, they have a conscience, the conscience is the ally right in the heart of the enemy. You ever seen those uh old Second World War move uh war movies? You'll see uh a British style be in the heart of Germany, and he's gotta make contact, and you'll go up to a stranger, sit next to him and say, uh, those green car is smoking green uh blue blue cigarettes in the w by the white picket fence. And then the guy stupid little thing, and he's made his contact with the ally, uh, right inside of the enemy, and the the conscience is the ally, and when you bring up the commandments, that's what makes contact with the the ally. The conscience bears witness with the commandments, and uh so that's my confidence in the second is in the Holy Spirit, you know. The Holy Spirit convicts of sin, righteousness, and judgment to come. And when Paul reasoned with Felix, the Bible says Felix trembled because Paul reasoned about sin and temperance, a judgment and uh and righteousness. And what we want what we need to do is bring a sinner to a point of trembling. We're gonna warn every man, not to talk about a wonderful plan, but to say God's wrath abides upon you, he's seen your sin, nothing is here before his holy eyes, and you're gonna stand before him in judgment, and there's a very real hell in a lake of fire, and I just don't want you going there, so please listen to me.
SPEAKER_04Ray, how do you see do you see that in the church today? Do you what what do you see as the state of uh evangelicalism uh in the evangelical church today?
SPEAKER_01I I think we've lost the fear of God. Uh we've done exactly what Israel did again and again in the Old Testament. We're no different than Israel. They veered towards idolatry. Because when you uh make up your own image of God, then you don't have a moral standard to judge by. And this is what happened when Moses was up on the mount. They lost sight of Moses and they got into idolatry, made a calf, and had a an orgy. And this is what's happened within the church. We've lost the fear of God, and consequently, people don't depart from sin. And one of the greatest contributors to this is this uh false gospel of God as a wonderful plan for your life, which is so prevalent. If you go on the internet and and check out the big churches around the world, they almost certainly begin with God has a wonderful plan for your life. And yet it's unbiblical. If you just got to study church history and see that the first eleven apostles murdered for their faith, read Fox's Book of Martyrs and see the church foundation is soaked in blood. And the analogy I use when I'm appealing to people about this gospel, this wonderful plan gospel, is the whole thought of if you were asked to speak to a thousand people on the hundredth story of the World Trade Center on September the 10th, 2001, the day before the tragedy, and uh you you were asked to preach to a thousand people, what would you say? Would you talk about a wonderful plan? You couldn't say that to people who are gonna die. You know that that each of these people are gonna either fall a hundred stories to their death on the unforgiving sidewalks of New York, stay within the building and be burned by alive by jet fuel or fall with it and So crushed the bodies would never be found. So you can't talk about a wonderful plan. The people who you know are gonna die. What would you do? You would say, Oh, please listen to me. You've got to face a holy God when you die. After death of judgment, you don't know when you're gonna go. God considers life to be adultery, hatred to be murder, and all lies will be found in in the in the lake of fire. So you need a savior and and you preach Christ crucified and plead with them to get right with God here and then because death could seize upon them. And so if you wouldn't talk about a wonderful planet of people who are gonna die in the in the World Trade Center, why would you not why would you not use the same message when you're talking to people on the streets who are dying at 130,000 people a day? 34 million people a year. Some will die just as horrific death, burn in car accidents, or trapped in a car, or dying of cancer. So to speak of a wonderful plan that's just disingenuous, uh uh Nathan didn't talk about a wonderful plan to David, he talked about a sin. And we need to do exactly the same thing, and we can do it if we do it according to the pattern, we approach people on love and in gentleness and rely on the conscience and on God's Holy Spirit to help us.
SPEAKER_02Wonderful. Well said, well said, Ray. Um look, we're very conscious of your time. Uh thank you very much for being with us. Can I just ask uh ask one last question, uh, which would be um a lot of people listen to us who have a real zeal for evangelism and uh and want to develop that gifting. What would you say to a young evangelist uh who wanted to get better at sharing the good news?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I would say do it. Um the best way to learn to swim is to dive in and ignore your fears. If I said to you, you know, Andy Glenn, I want you to dive into that swimming pool right now, it's filled with big chunks of ice. If you're in there for three or four minutes, you're gonna die. It's so cold. You'd say, Yeah, I'm not gonna do that. But if you looked in and saw a four-year-old child drowning in the swimming pool, you wouldn't hesitate to dive in. And the icy waters of evangelism are are are are freezing on the flesh. But people are dying. We can't afford to think of ourselves. We've got to ignore the flesh and just dive in. So the best way to learn to witness is to witness. And you know, the one of my best places to practice things in the shower when I'm looking in the mirror or on my dog. Practice what you preach. Just think, how am I gonna speak to an atheist? But on your website, you can listen to tapes and watch videos, and and they will teach you study to show yourself approved. And whatever you do, don't fall into the mistake of thinking that I'm somehow gifted uh when it comes to evangelism. It's like saying to a man has just won a 26-mile uh marathon, hey, you're really gifted. And I turn around and say What do you mean, gifted? I've spent years running 30 miles a week denying myself chocolate and other really neat foods. And look at these bruisings on my legs where I've fallen over and look at these muscles, that comes from hard work. And if you you know study me, you might say, You're a real expert. No, no, I've fallen over many times, I've bruised myself, I've denied myself to get to this point, and that means you can get to this point, and all you've got to do is run the race, study it, and do it. And and the other thing too is be a servant. Um, my first international invitation came when I was painting a toilet area as a pastor. Um, and it was ironic. The second one came, international invitation to speak, came when I was teaching some ladies' cars that are broken down, and I thought, boy, God really likes servants. And he exalts himself. Be a servant and uh don't you know condescend to the lowly cast of evangelism and and uh give out tracts and pray for wisdom and ask God to give you opportunities and whatever you do, ignore your fears. I hear them all the time. Every little old lady, little old man I might want to go up to witness to suddenly looks like Goliath to me, and I'm not exaggerating. I get terrified. I just have to say, No, I'm not gonna listen to my fears. I'm gonna love this person and and talk to them and I don't think I've ever regretted ignoring my fears and doing it anyway.
SPEAKER_02That's fantastic, Ray. Really, really a lot of wisdom packed in uh to those answers. So so grateful that you could join us on the Evangelist Podcast.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, could I mention that we have a an agent in Great Britain? Great uh Living Waters and uh you uh you can find that agency on livingwaters.com. And we're also having an ambassadors academy here in California where people can actually come and spend three days with us. And uh and uh we've had them before and we've had a lot of them, and they're very successful, so people can find details for that too, if they would like to come and join us in California for three days of open air preaching and personal witnessing and training. Uh I think you can find that on uh ambassadorsacademy.com if you don't mind mentioning it. If you do, just edit it out of the interview.
SPEAKER_02No, no, we absolutely will, and we'll add it to the show notes as well. That's uh fantastic. Who wouldn't want to go to California and be trained by Ray Comfort? Amazing. A lot of atheists wouldn't they'd love it for all the wrong reasons, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Ray, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03Okay, God bless you guys.
SPEAKER_02God bless you. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03Bye-bye.
SPEAKER_02Wow. That's amazing. It was like I was listening to uh an interview with Ray Comfort. But I was actually I was actually but it yeah, it was like Ray Comfort. But I'm actually on the other end of the line.
SPEAKER_04I love the way Ray Comfort is it's right down to a it's kind of as he says, he's he's not uh you know purporting to be anybody special, but uh he's just out there, he's frightened you know as he speaks to people just like uh any of us.
SPEAKER_02So that that illustration of the you wouldn't dive into a freezing swimming pool or a lake, would you? But if there was a four-year-old you would. I think that's that that that instantly communicates, doesn't it? Yeah, I think I'll I'll remember that each time, you know. Yeah. You're not doing something for the sake of your own health, and you're not yeah. What is determinative in your evangelistic encounter is not how much it hurts you or how afraid you are, but how lost they are. Yeah. I think that's uh that's hugely life-shaping, really. Yeah, I'll definitely take that away with me.
SPEAKER_04And he's a very clear communicator. You know, he kind of he boils it all down and he just is able to explain it. I I mean earlier today today I uh I watched his uh um interview with Lawrence Krauss, I famous atheist cosmologist. Yeah, uh he's very good at sort of just clearly putting it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, keeping it simple. And and I think that law gospel kind of framework really helps to do that. That that uh actually what we're really dealing with is a saviour, and therefore, if we've got a saviour, then there must be a cure, and there's a cure because there's a disease. And uh Lawrence Kraut's big issue is not the presenting symptoms here and here. Lawrence Kratz's real issue is rebellion against God. And I think yeah, that clarity theologically helps him to be simple evangelistically. So I I I would I would recommend people um do get a hold of Hell's best kept secret um that talk that's very easy to get, but we can put it on the phone. Uh I mean it's a it's a talk he's given maps are given a thousand times um around the place. But uh just taking you through this is what Moses did, this is what the prophets did, this is what Jesus did, this is what the apostles did, this is what the reformers did, this is what the Puritans did, this is what Spurgeon did. What about you? Are you gonna are you gonna show people uh conviction in in the law and then salvation in Christ? Or are you just gonna tell people to get fulfilled?
SPEAKER_04You know, have the best life ever after that.
SPEAKER_02So that's clarity, but I again I think it's that's clarity because there's actually theological depth behind it.
SPEAKER_04It's um really worth people uh diving into particularly that subject uh if if you want to be as clear uh as as Ray is and and loving, you know, it's it's uh it it's all about you know loving them enough uh to uh communicate not only God's love but also um the need to get right with him and uh not turning the fear down, turning the love up.
SPEAKER_02I thought uh yeah, that's uh that's a really good word. Especially to evangelists who can kind of be these these brash, I'll do it anyway, and I don't care kind of uh warriors. Um yeah, it's a good word in season for evangelists that it's gotta be the the love of Christ compels us. Um so uh I'm gonna be I'm gonna be protesting everything Ray said uh for the next week, I reckon.
SPEAKER_04Well, I think we're we're pretty much done here.
SPEAKER_02I think we are. Do check out LivingWaters.com and uh the ambassadorsacademy.com. Uh it sounds like a a wonderful opportunity uh to be trained in evangelism and uh go out to California. In January you need to that seems like a very good idea to me. Yeah, written.
SPEAKER_04Okay. See you next time. See ya.