Today on the Evangelist Podcast, we talk to Rico Tys about the Evangelist and the Bible.
SPEAKER_00The Evangelist Podcast. Encouragement to speak life to an easy world. With Queen Scrivener and Brickley.
SPEAKER_01How are you?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, really well. Thank you. It's doing lots of deadlines of calling. One exciting thing is we're going out on a Wednesday in the town center in spawn. We've got a market store. We've got uh someone selling handbags to the right of us. And uh someone's selling uh big clothes to the left of us. Uh and uh there we are with a big banner.
SPEAKER_01Uh if you could ask out one question more to pay, and uh how people are prepared to talk about that uh winner.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's funny we we did it many years ago. Back in 2010, I think we're gonna ask one question more to pay. And uh when you just uh quite formed their thoughts they might have uh we've got the banner up for quite a distance. And even if on the way of the shops you don't have anything to say on the way to the shops, you're reminded that uh week by week by week. So hopefully it'll start. Some people have the questions floating around the why the god let the uh well hopefully if we draw the exact box box.com and um yeah let's go. Well, that's chapter three of the um so yeah. So um yeah. Uh there are I I think five chapters at eight and uh uh uh uh strong bible um people and so uh yeah invited me in that sort of thing. Um that sort of thing. But uh the great and the good that they've wearing their tails and a white tie and and uh that sort of thing that um realized and uh they get uh um an incredible, really. Uh uh um at the same time, you know that's not where power lies is uh if we've got our typical couple stars and we look at the world actually uh power is uh according to one quite one uh in the uh nobody to the world spiders and uh things are not. This is where real happens actually at a grassroots level in the local church. So you don't have to create the uh college chapter to go wherever we are proclaiming the gods of Christ there is a uh there is a but also for building. And we're gonna talk about uh and uh talk about um with um all the and uh uh so I I uh I cut the thousand. So I watched my head off twice. There are thousands of like individual toilet for every every member of the code. It does, but it does not have a lot of people. But anyway, so that was that was when I first met Rico. I was gonna interview it. I was gonna interview Rico about uh local church, but uh I'll do that with another because it's a great example of uh a man with uh incredible preaching gifts and uh and does go everywhere and uses gifts everywhere, but uh plugs into that local church and preaches regularly adult salt, and uh it's evolved in one-to-one um Bible studies with people adult salt, and that is his spiritual home. And from there it's been an invaluable base for him to launch things like Christianity Explored and Disciples Explored and Life Explored, which is uh just coming out now. Um but that's a great model for us all, I think, an evangelist who loves the local church and who loves the Bible.
SPEAKER_01Okay, well let's uh bring him on then. Rico Tice.
SPEAKER_04Brilliant. So I'm here with Rico Tice. Great to have you on the Evangelist Podcast.
SPEAKER_02Thank you, Glenn. Nice to be here.
SPEAKER_04Brilliant. Now you've been travelling around at the moment um promoting Life Explored, is that right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's right. We've been trying to write material and produced a uh a a series of we call it a course, but it's really a a series of um uh uh talks and um and little films uh uh on the whole theme of idolatry. So how do good things become God things? So trying to do sin from that aspect. Christianity extraordinary is very much sin from law breaking. Idolatry is trying to s you know, these little films show people pursuing happiness in the wrong place and where that leaves you, and then asking people questions like, where do you go for fulfillment? What are your if-onlies in life? Trying to peel back the mask on idolatry.
SPEAKER_04Yes. And uh we uh interviewed Nate Morganlock uh just recently and so asked him it's it's a it's a very theocentric course in in terms of you know, how do you define sin? Well, it not simply law breaking, but choosing something over God's and and offending his glory. So um just just great to get a a big vision of God throughout the course.
SPEAKER_02Well, I thought I I I I thought your um article on pornography was great, saying actually the solution to this is actually how we see God and whether we can trust him to know what is best for us and to lead us and to fill our hearts. And that's the solution to battling temptation. And I think I think it's timely actually on that. I think that in a way the Alpha course was the the the huge thing on the Alpha Course, apart from let's do evangelism in community, was I think the work of the Holy Spirit, the weekend away on the spirit. We then did Christianity sport, which was let's look at Jesus in a gospel, let's walk through a gospel, looking at who he is, why he came, what it means to follow him. But in a sense there was the gap was a course about the forgotten father, and this is about the character of God. So it there's a sense in which if you look at the last twenty-five years on evangelism in in this country, I I I I think that's what needed saying.
SPEAKER_04Yes, and it's deeply Trinitarian, which which warms my heart as well. Life explored sort of begins with the triune God, so fantastic to see that.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, that's where the grace of course leads us to resting in the Trinity. We spend eternity rejoicing in the Trinity as they rejoice with one another. So uh Father, Son, and Spirit. So I think that yeah, I think I think uh if people can get that, it's the most wonderful place for them to rest.
SPEAKER_04Well, fantastic, and we will put uh notes uh about where people can access Life Explored, but it is it is a brilliant course and and something that you can do, I guess, one-to-one and and in churches and that sort of thing. Is that how it's designed to be used?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean the big issue I think we've got at the moment is that we've got to equip people to do one-to-one. You know, they they they're gonna trust their friends and the sort of culture no longer says go along to church, which in the past is what brought people, they knew they should. So it is the leverage of the one-to-one relationship more than ever. So we've tried to make it as accessible as possible for people to run on their phones or whatever else, but but yeah, it it is there, and I I I think a lot of it will be done on a one-to-one basis.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, fascinating. Brilliant. Well, I'm uh loving to talk to you today about uh the evangelists and the Bible. And it struck me as I was putting together this series and thinking about who should I invite uh to do uh on which topic, it struck me that very much uh you would be the person to to talk about how we keep the Bible front and centre in our personal work, in the method of our evangelism, in the content of what we say. Can you can you give us a a a flavor for how the Bible made an impact on you in your conversion?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean I think a key moment was between sets of tennis. I was fifteen, I was playing with a 19-year-old, and between sets of tennis, he said, Do you want to look at the Bible with me? So that was a big pain line he crossed there. You know, he said, Do you want to have a look? Uh he opened it at Psalm 103, verses 13 to 17. Asked a couple of questions, what does it say about God? What does it say about man? What does it say about man? We're dust. We can flourish, but it's over so quickly. It's place for him is it no more? So the brevity of life, and then what does it say about God from everlasting to everlasting Lord's lovers of those who fear him? And he said to me, Rico, God lives forever. If we link up with God, we'll live forever. So the only logical thing to do in life is link up with God. And I you know, it was it was five verses over five minutes with two questions from a 19-year-old. And it was as though he lifted me up and I saw into eternity. You know, my blind eyes were open. So I guess in my own experience, I saw the power of a little I mean, really, I've spent the next 35 years, man, working out that moment.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So it's just and and and that's what I'd say about this. I I think any evangelist needs to ask themselves this question where is the power?
SPEAKER_05Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02And the the power is in the Bible. So it's the word of God taken by the Spirit of God to open people's eyes. So 2 Corinthians 4 verse 5, we preach Christ, we we we we we speak of Jesus, we're heralds of Jesus as we do that. 2 Corinthians 4 verse 6, God opens blind eyes. And you know, I spend my life saying to people, look, if you don't think the power's in Scripture, I've I've got nothing to say to you. The the power is here in the Word, let's get it open.
SPEAKER_04How do you see evangelists compromising that? Or how how do you see sort of evangelists sidelining the Bible? Are there examples that you see of that?
SPEAKER_02Well, of course, brother, the the we'll try and trust in other things like the music or our personality or whatever it is. And I I think you know we're given natural gifts that are there to draw people in, but I've got to go, it's the Bible that will do it. And I often see a evangelist speaking, and I think, brother, I don't think you think it is the Bible, I think you think it's something else.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02So the so the Bible at four levels on Christianics for we always try and model this that it's the Bible taught from the front, the Bible in a small group, the Bible one to one, and then I read the Bible for myself at home, but it's always the word of God that I'm trying to get out. And that in evangelism, I keep saying that, let's teach it from the front, let's in a small group look at it, let's talk about it one-to-one, get the Bible open, and then for ourselves, let's read it for ourselves. And I'm trying to get that DNA in place.
SPEAKER_04Yes. I heard recently a uh a quote from Peter Mead who said, However clever you are, whatever you can make the Bible say is not as powerful as what God made it say.
SPEAKER_03That's very good.
SPEAKER_04Which is just yeah, and and just seeing in your conversion as well, just just there's Psalm 103, read it and weep. There it is, the the truth, and it and it did its work in you. Brilliant. Where do you see the Bible taking you in terms of your methodology of of evangelism? As you go to the scriptures, what do you see it teaching us about how to go about being evangelists?
SPEAKER_02Well, I think it goes back to trusting that this will do the work. I think that that's the big thing, that the power is here. So it goes back to your doctrine of how the Bible got written, and of course it was written by men, but they are inspired by God. They they were inspired by him to write the Bible, and then we are we have our minds illuminated by the Holy Spirit as we read the Bible. So, what I do when I start a talk, even if I'm in a pub, is I give out a passage.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02I say, This may be totally unfamiliar to you. We've got a course where you can ask any question you like about it, but I'm going to read a passage of the Bible, but I don't think you want to hear from me. I think you want to hear from well, I think the God who made us, but you might want to talk about that. But here's a little passage, and I'm going to say a few words from it. So I just cross that pain line, given the Bible unashamedly, what do you think? You know, the whole idea is we're in a free country, so I'm allowed to erect my little stall in the marketplace. And I do that with the Bible and come back and ask any question you like. And I mean I suppose what it goes back to is I do think that God's word is what he has given us about his son. So I quite often say this to people, I'd it I'd say, if God was here and we could say to him, there are lots of good ways to do evangelism, but Father, what's the best way? I think on the answer to what's the best way to do evangelism, I think he'd say, Why don't you go through the books I've given you about my son?
SPEAKER_05Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02And I think that's what he'd say. Now, once you're convinced of that, we've got these gospel accounts. Let's go through them. Now, as we do that, as we speak of Jesus and it looks so pathetic, mm-hmm, God takes the power that made the world and opens blind eyes. So the moment of conversion is a moment of identification. We we you know, for God who said, Let light shine out of darkness, made his light shine in our hearts to give us the knowledge uh of Christ, uh the knowledge of God in the face of Christ. In other words, it's a the moment of conversion is a moment of recognition. I see who Jesus is, but I've got to have the confidence to say I'm just gonna get the Bible open and teach it.
SPEAKER_04Yes. And how do you how do you model it in in preaching? So we'll we'll we'll we'll go through what you do, the the four ways that the Bible kind of is used.
SPEAKER_02So from the front, as as you're preaching, um Well I how I never hear some when I'm turning up to speak somewhere, um parti I mean if it's in a church, there'll be a Bible there on the on the on the hopefully in front of them. But I always take with me the handout of the passage. I don't trust the locals to do it. Well, sometimes, but most of it I get I they say I say how many are coming? They say thirty-five. I say I bring forty-five slips of the passage, and I give them all the passage and I say, um, here we are. I might not read it at the start, but that's quite a big pain line I cross climb. I I sort of go, here we are, here's the Bible. Actually, I've got nothing to say outside of this. I've no idea what you think of it. Thank you for coming tonight. We're so touched you're here. Let me say a few words from this, and my and my prayer is that they will drop into your soul. And I say, Look, it's my habit to to say a prayer before I speak, so could you be with me as I do that?
SPEAKER_04And I'll then do that even if even if this was like a pub quiz or something and you were you were speaking at it all?
SPEAKER_02A pub quiz, I've I don't hog roast for a pub quiz, I don't think I'll do it at, but nor but I will very often do it, men's breakfast or whatever, because I I want them to know that I think God is speaking.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And that's why I say a prayer. It's this is not just about me academically passing something on.
SPEAKER_04Yes. And then I guess the content of what the scriptures are saying has got to be shaping the content of of your sermon or your your your preaching.
SPEAKER_02Yes, that's right. I don't want to be an evangelist that just has a little set talk and I give. I want to teach the Bible, but I want to go to parts of the Bible that best explain the gospel. So, for example, a favourite one I do is 1 Thessalonians 1 verse 10, Jesus who rescues us from the coming rot. So I might read that at the start. And then I and then I do have a winsome introduction on you know on that one. I say I was in Botney Bay in Australia, and it was a beautiful day, and I decided to go for a swim. I was just taking off my clothes to jump in in the box of shorts and the blow comments with and said, What are you doing? I said, What do you think? I'm going for a swim. He said, Well, what about those signs? There were some great signs saying danger no danger sharks, no swimming. I said, I'll be fine. He said, Listen, mate, 200 Australians have been killed by sharks, you've got to work out whether those signs are to save you or ruin your day. And with that, he walked off, and I rather pathetically walked after him, and then I crossed the pain line and I then say, There's a great danger sign here. Can I show it to you? I don't know what you'll make of it. But here it is, becoming Roth. This is settled, controlled personal hostility to evil. So I I cross that pain line and say with that that phrase becoming Roth. And you know, and I I I I I try and have a win some introduction, but I want to put before them the heart of the gospel. And one of the things that's the heart of the gospel is that we need to be rescued, and as as Billy Graham said, it's much harder to get people lost than it is to get them saved. They've got to see they're lost. And so that's what I would try and express.
SPEAKER_04And I guess once you've once you've crossed that pain line as as you put it, you'll you're then liberated in in a in a way, aren't you? Because you you've already you've already mentioned the most fearful reality.
SPEAKER_02Um Well, I think yes, and I think this is the really important thing, Glenn, about you know what's happened in the last twenty-five years in evangelism, which is that we've said get into a group, go and chat about it. When I hear sermons from the early nineties, you know, I they they sort of say, Well, come along to church, but we don't say that. We say there's a place to discuss this. So I've just said something outrageous. I know that. Come and talk about it. So I think you tell the truth, but you always say, Come and chat. Two other things I always do is my it's like golf, you know, since we've had the writer cup, I'll just say this. But number one, have a swing thought, and my swing thought is I believe in the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02So as I say these countercultural things, I believe in that. The second swing thought is I'm for you, I'm not against you. So as I'm speaking, I'm with you. Sometimes I've given talks when I have been tired and they've just been a bit bitter and edgy, and the listener can feel that.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02So for the evangelist, I'd say, if you're tired and you're getting up to speak, brother, be very careful. Because it can come across as edgy.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02And I've certainly had to to to guard against that.
SPEAKER_04Yes, and make sure they know evidently you love them and want to do them good. Um I guess there's ways of it.
SPEAKER_02Which I mean I think arriving early if you're speaking, and getting around the room before you speak. So I try and get round and say hello to people. Yeah where have you come from? Thanks for coming tonight. I'm a bit nervous about this, but you know, I'm giving the talk. So I've tried to connect with those there before I I get up to speak. The other thing I'll do is I'll scout the room. So you know, I've had talks where they've put me up to speak and I'm standing right in front of the front door. Well, you've got to then reorganize the room and and make sure you're in a corner so the people that come in late aren't coming right in behind you.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02So, you know, be a bit stroppy about that as an evangelist, say no. I mean it's easier if you're older. No, I think I'll speak from there. I'm not speaking from here. Because often the people putting you off to speak don't know what it is to speak. They're they're facilitating it, which is lovely, but they don't know what the logistics of speaking are and actually how difficult it is to go on speaking when someone comes in saying, you know, I mean I was once at a restaurant where constantly with people are coming in behind me, going, you know, do you serve lamb kebabs or you know, or or can you know, I mean I'm pretty I'm pretty stroppy about that. I get there early, I have the talk written out, uh you know, on a printed out. I try and be in the place where I've got the best eye contact, but also it's just a wall behind me, all that sort of stuff.
SPEAKER_04This week's experience, that's very good. Um and how do you make sure I mean obviously you've got scores and scores, hundreds of talks up your sleeve in one sense, in the freezer, as it were. Um how do you how do you make sure you've always got new stuff on the go? Do you find it difficult to keep fresh um with with your your biblical uh sermons?
SPEAKER_02Well uh it's interesting, Glenn. I I think actually this is where dyslexia if you've got dyslexia is quite helpful because basically I I sometimes I almost forget what's in the talks even if I've given them loads of time and I I have to write them out i and colour them in and then I my mind sort of photographs the colours. So whilst I think for a lot of evangelists there are a lot of talks, I sort of I'll preach at all souls. That's the only place I'll do new talks for and then I sort of have a a top ten where I think actually those are the those are the best ones I've got in terms of they're the clearest and the most winsome. So although I've done many probably once a year I'll go actually that talk really does bear repeating. I think it really is clear. So there are not many I've got you know I've got a couple on the resurrection, you know, t two or three some parable ones you know, but not many where I really think actually I've got a talk. I've got a talk from Genesis one and two on satisfying sex and you know I but I i uh there'll be a few that you suddenly think actually they really have got got it clear.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_02I I must use those again. And then when people ring me up to speak I say yes I will come but I won't do okay what roughly do you want me to talk about and then we'll talk about the subject we'll get one that really connects with the talks I've got. Because to write a new talk is a vast amount of effort I find. So that may not be I think other people I mean I are probably much better at being flexible than writing new talks.
SPEAKER_04I get but I guess all souls keeps you fresh in I mean you're on the preaching rotor there That's right.
SPEAKER_02I mean how how regularly I'm writing I'm writing at least one new sermon a month here, if not two, and therefore that's what keeps me fresh there and then I'm and again that means that when I come away I really only like to come away for the time I'm away. If I'm having to prepare a lot I feel that's robbing all souls. So Yeah yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah wise okay so moving down from up front um how should we use the Bible in small groups?
SPEAKER_02Well I think it's incredibly important to teach people what church is and a lot of people have a view of church which is it's a sermon I hear from the front then I go home and read the Bible for myself.
unknownMm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02It's incredibly individualistic and that sense of sharing life together which of course Acts chapter two models for us possessions in common. I mean even in London I tell people you do get to know each other and make friends in the end. It takes a bit of time but in the end you get there. And so I I'm really keen for people to be in a small group a small group where they can really be looking after each other and looking out for each other but but but also it's the basis from which two things happen. You've got to learn and you've got to serve.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02So with any leader I'm saying how are they learning each week? And and what m how uh how can they grow in their learning? Is there a book they can do or how do you help everyone in the church to be learning more and then how are they serving? And and I think the the the small group is the place where the church family can really put their arms around you and and make sure you're growing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Okay, what about one-to-one? Obviously in the in the last less than ten years in the student world sitting down with Luke's gospel or John's gospel has has really kind of gone viral through the student worlds and many more people are catching on. What is it that's working about reading the Bible one to one with people?
SPEAKER_02Well I I I Glenn I I I think it's the honesty and it's the it's the ability to really see whether the person you're looking at it with understands.
unknownMm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02So you know I can do grace in a small group and from the front and yet I mean I had this at all souls. I I I took the funeral of someone who'd been there for twenty their fa their father had been there for for forty years, they'd been in the congregation twenty years. As I organized the funeral and met up with this person, I thought actually they they're hardly converted yet they've been sitting under John Stock for so long and it's because no one had sat down and said have have you got this? So one to one is so good because it it it it means there's a understanding, there's application to their life um there's there's training you can say what's the next step. Mm-hmm there's confidentiality, it's very safe so I'm not going to repeat what is said. Um so just just all those things mean that as you open the Bible one to one you can really see whether someone's got it.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_02And if they haven't you can go back over it. You can then really apply it closely to their life and um I I it's what I enjoy most about ministry actually that that if someone says what's your biggest thrill um I think it is meeting with people one to one and really sharing life with them and then and then really you know helping them to grow.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02And it's the flexibility 'cause you can meet at any time, you know you can say okay well if you're not free to ten at night I can meet you then.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And I mean and you keep those on the go, don't you? I mean you've you've got a number of people you're you're meeting up with the money.
SPEAKER_02Yeah yeah no I'll be meeting with a guy tomorrow and I was meant to meet with someone this morning but he was ill. Um but I I that there's a real authenticity there. I think the big thing there is though Glenn is to signal when you're going to finish.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So you say we're gonna start meeting now, we'll finish at Christmas. And then if you can meet with someone else, I think people get very upset if you've read with them for a bit and they really enjoy the personal training aspect of that, but then they're not really ready to move on.
SPEAKER_03Interesting.
SPEAKER_02And and and you know I'm always looking to read with people who will then be ready to read with others.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02But I've had the odd person who likes meeting with me but has got really no intention they are very odd very odd yes they they're they're they're not really prepared to go to a small group or be part of church but they like having a s a personal meeting. Well that you've got to get people who are prepared then to go off and and and do the same with others.
SPEAKER_04So what were you going to do with this this guy this morning? Like what what what what would you do in a in a normal one to one Bible study?
SPEAKER_02Well the guy the guy this morning is the most lovely guy um comes from an Asian background and I think by his own admission we that there's a real battle to understand grace. So we've sort of done Ephesians 2 1 to 10, we've done the Pharisee and the tax collector, we've done the prodigal son but I'm just keeping going because but it tends to be at the end of each session he'll say to me that was lovely, what do I have to do now?
SPEAKER_03Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02At which point I go, you don't have to do anything. You've just got to understand what God has done for you and and if you get that well then things will flow out of it. But you know the radio one is I can see that his mindset is still so works orientated.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_02Because that's how he was raised.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_02And you're able to actually tailor what you study to to Yeah yeah yeah and and um and you know get to know him and then pull his leg. I can mock him as I say you still haven't got it have you? Um we can pray for him but trying to get justification in place. And so I think with different people it will be different things because you're sharing life with them, you're seeing what's coming up, you're teaching the Bible so you're watching them serve and learn and that and it it enables it to be so specific to them.
SPEAKER_04Yes. And are there particular resources? I mean un uncover is out there the the word one to one is out there I I I made a great mistake for twenty years which was I thought people could make up their own questions and then do this.
SPEAKER_02Mm and they can't. That is the job of the evangelist and the teacher but uncover and the word one to one give you the questions word one to one gives you the answers too so people aren't humiliated. I think it's a very novel contribution. And and you know you've got the questions there, you don't have to do any preparation and you just read through them.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And uh and I I I I think that thing of no preparation but here are good questions has been incredibly powerful.
SPEAKER_04Well the nineteen year old led you to the Lord through it so yeah anyone can. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yes that's right it's just trusting the Bible will do it. Now people say to me look well the they they'll say sometimes to me well Rika I I get the Bible open with somebody and and you know it doesn't seem to have much effect. And my response is well I've got nothing else to offer.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_02That's what I've got to offer I pray and read the Bible.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So you must go somewhere else I say I'm I'm I'm I'm saying that I'm sure other people can offer other stuff but for me it's scripture. So I'm I'm quite good at saying look that's what I'm trying to do I I i if peop if there's just a blockage with people, I don't know why that is, but I I'm not then going to try and work that one out with other stuff. I'm just saying for me it's the Bible.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_04I'm thinking of men the framework you know well what is one Corinthians two, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom but on God's power. Um yeah exactly no that sounds very wise. Um okay and what about that fourth aspect of the Bible in the evangelist life the just that that personal walk with Christ.
SPEAKER_02Well brother you know it's so important. I mean it is just so important because we get in such a mess about this. So I I I really think that you know that issue of your own personal walk and I've got a young family at the moment, my kids are eight months, four and five and it's just knowing I've just got to do this each day and I'm doing much less I do the try and do the Bible in a year, but I'm now I'm no longer trying to do the old testament. I'm just doing Psalms and um and the gossip and you know and the New Testament or Psalms proverbs in the New Testament. But it is that issue of of of r really doing that and I and I think the portrait book A Dangerous calling is the book to read on this as he just articulates how we can spend our life front stage but not be really authentic backstage and have integrity and I I and so for me it's you know it's reading the Bible as I read the Bible what I'm confronted with is my own depravity. Each each morning and I I or you know it might be later in the day because the kids have been up early but I'm seeing what God is like, how far I am from that I'm back to the cross and then you know in view of God's mercy offer yourself as a living sacrifice you I find that process of looking at the Bible, seeing my sin, seeing how the wonder of the Lord and then asking forgiveness and pledging yourself again. You know that that process of real authentically meeting your God is is is is massive.
SPEAKER_04Yes and that's why the scriptures have been given so that we have that that encounter like that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah and I and it sounds so basic you know and you you you one yawn saying oh you know are you saying that again and I'm saying yeah I am saying it again and it is what's key. I mean I I do find when I read the Bible I I I relish it and when I don't I say miss it and I can't understand why I don't but I don't because of my sinful nature.
SPEAKER_04Yes yeah brilliant I've got two more questions that have come in on Twitter. So I asked on Twitter what should I ask um uh what should I ask Rico and there have been a couple of silly questions which I will not waste your time with um one of them is from Mark Wally but uh anyway uh one of them's from uh Jamie Southcombe who asks uh how do we ensure our evangelism is about people not just about programs and events?
SPEAKER_02Yeah that is a good question and I I think that that um I tend to if you can imagine this I draw when I'm training churches I draw a a a large triangle and at the top of the triangle I cut off the the the the top quarter of it and I say that is the events and the programs spring, summer autumn put the Alpha course in the Christian Export course do the Christmas and Easter events. But then underneath it in the bottom four fifths of the triangle I put one to one and I said it's the relationships that feed those events. And yet so many churches put all their all their energy into the events but but you know are you doing people? So I I I it's a great question and and and certainly what the students have done so well is they are doing the relationship stuff alongside the events and and that drops people into uncover. Yes yeah I I I mean I I just keep saying you know that the events at the tip of the iceberg they're not the real work. The real work is going after the lost sheep which is you know in Luke 15 the hard work hard yards.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Brilliant brilliant and then the last question from George Osborne he asks uh what do you do differently in evangelism now compared to ten years ago Oh I think it's my understanding of idolatry.
SPEAKER_02Hmm no question I think idolatry for me you know the Keller stuff on counterfeit gods I mean I I I remember when I was at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford three weeks before the last match when I wanted to get a blue standing in the chapel and thinking I don't care about God, I don't care about the gospel, I don't care about my family, I don't care about my rugby friends I just want to get a blue and once I've got that I'll care about those other pe things again. And I remember thinking oh that's not very good but I had no idea actually that was the heart of idolatry a good thing rugby had become a God thing. And I but I just didn't know what it was and now as I look back I've got so much more of a handle on the idolatries of the heart and I and I think that's made the evangelism much more flexible and colourful and poignant. Yes from your heart to their hearts you're able to diagnose the problems and just do some cardiology saying let's work out you know what are your dreams, what are your nightmares let's unpack that because where will they leave you? And and you know um I think that's what's been new.
SPEAKER_04That is a very good word to end on uh thank you very much Rico. Um we've got uh y there's a book of yours coming out soon Capturing God uh which we'll we'll interview you about uh in a in an upcoming episode um but uh thank you so much for talking to us about uh the evangelist and the Bible pleasure absolute delight so the quick question is Glenn where's the power?
SPEAKER_02Where once you've got that you'll you you go from there.
SPEAKER_04It's there in the word great word. Okay thanks so much Rico Glenn uh Rico talking to uh life explore f go f life dot x code dot red life red stuff and uh there is uh