Today on the Evangelist Podcast we talk to Nate Morgan Locke about Life Explored. The Evangelists Podcast. Encouragement to speak life to a needy world. With Glenn Scrivener and Andy Brinkley.
SPEAKER_01You're listening to the Evangelist Podcast. This is the podcast where we attempt to unravel issues regarding things to do with telling the good news about Jesus.
SPEAKER_03We give it a go anyway. Yeah, and they've all been odd. All of them.
SPEAKER_01So what's what's odd about this one then?
SPEAKER_03What's odd? I I've really enjoyed uh chatting to Nate Morgan Locke. We had a uh Skype interview earlier and uh talking to him about this new resource coming out of Christianity Explored Ministries. They've had uh Christian Explored itself, uh they've had Discipleship Explored, and this is sort of uh a third course that churches can do uh that introduces your friends to Jesus and uh it's it's it's brilliant and it's compelling and attractive, it's beautiful. And so it's just been great to chat to tonight thinking about what is the nature of the gospel that we want to make things beautiful and good looking and cinematic. What is the nature of humanity that we respond to that kind of thing? So we we speak about those kinds of issues.
SPEAKER_01Okay, is it available now?
SPEAKER_03It is, it is. So you can go to life.explo.red. Do you see what they did? Life.explode.red Life Explorer with a couple of buttons. Yeah. And um or just just Google and uh and you'll find it. But uh yeah, it's available now. Uh you can see it online, you'll be wowed by it. I mean, really Hollywood production values and and all the rest of it. Um but as we talk about in the interview, there is some deep theology and great uh gospel going on underneath it all that informs everything. Uh, and so I heartily recommend it.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Well, uh here's Nate Morgan Locke talking to you then, Glenn.
SPEAKER_03And joining me on the line is Nate Morgan Locke. Great to have you on the Evangelist Podcast.
SPEAKER_02Hello, Glenn Scrivener, how are you?
SPEAKER_03I'm very well. We've been chatting for about half an hour now, and uh I still don't know like where you are, what you've been doing. It's yeah, we we just we just went straight down to brass tacks, didn't we? So let me ask you about you. Where where are you right now?
SPEAKER_02So right now I'm sitting in what is apparently my study in my house, but it's basically just full of of things.
SPEAKER_00Really? Things?
SPEAKER_02Of things varieties, whether it's toys, jigsaw, puzzles, boxes, duvets. Just uh it's a bit of a dumping ground this room.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02But I've I've managed to make enough space to sit down and uh put my laptop upon my lap so that we can uh we can.
SPEAKER_03Are you are you a Mac man?
SPEAKER_02I am, but uh it's more 'cause I'm married into a Mac family. Yes. I was fairly ambivalent on the whole computers thing, and then I just thought, oh well. You've got to choose.
SPEAKER_03Because then how you how are you gonna raise the children, PC or Mac? You do you've got to choose, and usually you go with the woman, don't you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well we have we have gone with we've raised them as Apple Mac fans. And uh I mean, although I think when they get to 11, 12, they'll probably make their own decisions, really.
SPEAKER_03That's important. The age of accountability. Once they get there, then they can tell. Right there. That's what that is. Now, Nate, you've been traveling all around the place uh quite recently, getting people excited about Life Explored. Um so yeah, let us know what is Life Explored, what's the big idea?
SPEAKER_02Okay, so uh Life Explored is a seven-session series that asks people the question, what is the best gift God could give you? And then seeks to show through a variety of short films and discussion questions and Bible studies that the greatest gift that God could give you is Himself and to reveal that He's done that for us in Jesus. Um it's evangelistic, it's designed to declare the good news and design for a non-Christian um to be able to engage with, and it's expositional, so looking at biblical texts and trying to understand um what they're teaching us about God, and it's um engaging. There you go, there's the third sort of variety of um just ways to interact and ways to um to to work out what what the best gift we we think God could give us is and uh and how that works out. That's a very garbled answer.
SPEAKER_03I think you should just stop that for the first time I mean you've been you've been giving this spiel for quite some time now, haven't you? I mean you've been uh selling your wares around around the country and you're you're off to America to do similarly, is that right?
SPEAKER_02Uh yes, I'm out to join um my uh my co-creator, Barry Cooper, but that's not till November. So uh there's plenty of gospel ministry to be doing here in Albion.
SPEAKER_03Now, this has come out of the Christian and Explored stable, as it were, Christian and Explored Ministries. Um you've got Christianity Explored, that's sort of a walk through Mark's Gospel, you've got Discipleship Explored, uh, which is sort of Philippians, I guess, based in. Yeah. Um, and this, Life Explored, is is at one stage it was going to be called Bible Explored, wasn't it? Because it was sort of it kind of gives the Bible overview.
SPEAKER_02It was. It was kind of the work entitled. So originally, um a number of years ago, I think it's sort of six or seven years ago, um there was a discussion which said, okay, people are finishing going through Mark's gospel, and they're not quite they're not quite ready to say, okay, you know, I'll trust Jesus, I'll become a Christian. So we could do something else, maybe for them to engage with before we would encourage people to to look at at Philippians and really say, Okay, now I'm um I'm a Christian, I want to know what discipleship's about. So we're kind of working out what is this kind of middle piece gonna be, and throughout the the six or seven years of development, it went through a number of different uh shapes and and guises, but um ultimately I suppose it is just a it's a kind of sprint through a biblical uh the biblical plot line, um, but it is by no means a Bible overview. So we felt the Bible explored was just an unhelpful site already, uh but life explored because we're able to look at um things which might be a little bit more kind of immediately beckoning for a non-Christian.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And if you're a church leader and you're thinking, I already run Christianity Explored, is life explored sort of pre-Christianity explored, is it post-Christianity explored? Is it either? What is it?
SPEAKER_02Well, this is the thing, as I say, originally it was conceived as being a follow-up, but what we found is that um it it really could be either way. What we've said to people when they've asked that question is to say, okay, if you've got people you know in your local community who've been through Christianity explored, this would be a great thing for them to do. If you haven't got anything and you start with Life Explored, a great next step after looking at a big picture of the Bible or you know, the big sweep of biblical history, focus in now on on Mark's gospel and do see it. So, really, it's a kind of you know, bit of a chicken egg thing now. Yeah. Um inhale type.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it works either way. Um now, I mean, the big thing I've wanted to talk to you about, and I've got I've got all sorts of questions. I'm prepared, man. I've got like look at this, like seven questions written down here. Um, but the big thing I want to ask about is I mean, it's beautiful, and you guys obviously care about production value. You've gone all over the world to shoot this. Um, it sounds amazing, it looks amazing. Um this is this is not, you know, somebody filming something on their smartphone and just banging it up there. You've gone to a lot of trouble to make this um beautiful as well as compelling and true and all the rest of it. Why?
SPEAKER_02Well, it's I think I think it does come down to what we what we believe a gospel presentation is and involves. And you know, I suppose to the extent that every time you have written communication, you have made some default decisions about fonts, for example. So you can't really write something without having a font, you know, you can't kind of do that in a vacuum. So you've got you have to make some choices at at some stage. And to suggest that you know those different choices are kind of completely um neutral, or there's no um those choices don't affect the way in which people engage with what they're watching, reading, or listening to, uh, depending on the on the format. Um and the guys that we're working with uh over in the US, you know, they're just incredibly talented, gifted guys, and all together a team um of filmmakers who could work with us to make something that really just looked amazing. Um so we are totally thrilled with that, and and I think we can sort of say that without feeling self-congratulatory because you know, this is as you say, it's absolutely a team effort. So it wasn't just me on and Barry and an iPhone, it was it was like a team of people internationally working together. I I think what I'd say um from a more kind of profound understanding is that the ways that we communicate have the ability to polish our gospel presentation, if you can put that. So Titus 2, you've got those instructions to the different groups of people, the older women, the younger women, and all that sort of stuff, and the slaves and masters, and there's that great line about um uh so that they make may make the teaching of our saviour attractive. Yes. That's interesting. So the life of the believer has the ability to kind of you know polish the diamond of the gospel, you know, you can't make the gospel any more attractive, you might say, but there's some way that you kind of will provide a setting of of beauty for the gospel in the way that you're living. And so I think we wanted to say, well, surely that applies across the board. It's not just a case of are you doing nice things for other people in your local neighbourhood, but you know, what approach are you doing towards delivery or towards um cinematography or as I say, font, or something as simple as that. I think those are things that it's impossible not to use those things. So to have a powerful and and aesthetically pleasing approach the ones that takes that seriously, I think we would say is important.
SPEAKER_03And you use stories as well. So I mean, uh sort of a way into each of the sessions are these sorts of do you call them parables? What do you what do you call them? These sort of very cinematic uh introductions to the theme. What are they?
SPEAKER_02Well, we call them films, really. Yeah. Short films. Um I think so, in terms of story, I um I actually grew up in Narnia.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um literally, my parents' house is called Narnia.
SPEAKER_03Oh.
SPEAKER_02And so it's just outside Stoke on Trent, if you're wondering.
SPEAKER_03Oh, and the and there the magic just sort of collapses in a heap. Where is Narnia? Yeah, yeah, head to Stoke on Trent. Uh turn left. Okay. Um never mind.
SPEAKER_02So, in terms in terms of stories and the power of stories, that's and and the power of stories to communicate potentially some kind of Christian understanding of the world. I think I certainly grew up with that, and it's just been a very natural part of uh of my kind of development as a Christian to be thinking imaginatively about the um the things of the gospel. So I I kind of grew up with that. The other thing that I suppose, so the C.S. Lewis, but um Schaefer, Francis Schaefer. I I remember I was 15 years old, my dad sat me down to watch the original uh Francis Schaefer How Shall We Then Live video series, which you can still get on YouTube, can't you? I think I've seen it on YouTube. It's absolutely amazing. It just takes you on this little sort of um art history tour and shows how art is used to communicate and all this sort of stuff. Anyway, so always kind of been been thinking that that way round. And then recently I've just come across uh Hans Ruckmacher.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_02And uh he was a big um he was a big friend of of Schaefer, so you've got Frankie and Hans. And I love the idea there's a little like cartoon of them just talking about theological aesthetics and uh just getting into scrapes. Yeah. Yeah. Um but one of the things that um that Rookmacker said is Jesus didn't come to make us Christians, he came to make us fully human. Yeah. And that is just that just really opens up your eyes to say, yeah, okay, to be fully human, what does that mean? Yeah. Yeah you know, rather than just to go, all right, I cannot when someone says, you know, do you believe you're a sinner? Yes. Do you believe Jesus died on the cross for your sins? Yes. You know, are you prepared to go to church for the rest of your life? Yes. I suppose so. But actually to think, how does the gospel impact all of life, no matter what we're doing?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So um, yeah, lots of that stuff is as I say, been moving around for a while. And the other thing with it was that Barry and I, as we were looking at um the development, there was a great line in a letter that C.S. Lewis wrote to um a girl back in the 50s, um, and he said, uh, in writing, don't tell us how you want us to feel. Uh make us feel it. Yeah. So it's like um, you know, don't tell us something was terrifying, make us say we're terrified when you described it.
SPEAKER_03Don't you dare say it was sad, make them cry. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. And I think what we found in in a lot of a lot of preaching and uh which was very kind of like faithful, this is what the Bible is saying, you know, this is set into its appropriate context, and this is what it would have meant to the original hearers, and and here's what it might mean for us today. But it just it people weren't being moved, they were being told they ought to feel a certain way, but the the very act of listening to the sermon didn't move them.
SPEAKER_03Yes. And especially if it you should be grateful, and that's uh like it kind of puts you back to being eleven years old and your mother telling you to say thank you for your Christmas present from Auntie, you know, so-and-so. Like, be grateful. Okay.
SPEAKER_02And this was the thing. So Lewis said um uh the obligation to feel freezes feelings. So he's like, what you know, what if you took out these things from their stained glass and Sunday school associations and you set them into a fantasy world? Like, what could you do in that moment? How could you surprise people with a kind of you know, uh a familiar gospel or a familiar doctrine which moved them in a way that they weren't perhaps expecting? And I think that that all of those things combined, you know, could what people, if they watch um the Life Explorer films, is they'll just see some stories and you know, and they may or may not be feel kind of moved by them or react to them. But all of that stuff that's going on underneath, really, is um is why we did it in the way that we we did it. Um now two other things on that. I I say uh someone's done a lot of holiday Bible clubs, you often have to write a drama or uh like a setting, you know, is it gonna be pirates this year or spaceships, or once we set one in a newspaper office and you know want to set an airport and stuff like that. And so that kind of children's work experience of having to write narratives which would hopefully provide a context within which the teaching clicked or made sense emotionally as well as um intellectually for the kids, you know, that's that's been a lot a long process. Um, but the other one is that in my own preaching I try as much as possible to develop narratives that I can tell, which I will acknowledge as I'm telling this is completely made up. It's not from a book or a film, it's not an anecdote, it's not true. But imagine this story. And so there was one I was preaching on Amos actually, and the Lord goes, like he's done all the other nations, you know, he's like, you know, Amos is just giving everyone a kicking, and then eventually turns to Israel. Yeah, yeah. And you guys are the worst. Exactly. And then um, but one of the things he picks up on is um how they uh they sell the needy for a pair of sandals and they um they're unjust, they deny justice to the poor and all this sort of stuff. And so I just started telling a story about this um a girl who's just started secondary school and she's just been going for a few weeks and she doesn't really know anyone else, but she's you know trying to make friends, but after a few weeks, like she still hasn't actually connected with anyone, like, and mum and dad sort of wondering, she's not been invited to any parties or anything, and they're a bit bit anxious. Anyway, comes up to half term, and and she's now actively being bullied and having to eat lunch on her own all the time. There's stuff coming back on on social media, or she's she's just crying every morning she's putting her uniform on. So they get to Christmas and say, right, we're gonna find you um a new school. Like, we'll move you, like we can't have you in this situation. So they look around, they find this you know, wonderful um school, they go and speak to the headmistress and the head of year. There's no issues with bullying, there's great cohesion within the within the girl's uh forms. So the girl joins, brilliant, she's loving it, she's really excelling, everything's going well. Come the end of the summer term, the girl um the girl's parents receive a letter from the headmistress asking them to come in for a special meeting um the next day, and as they go in, they discover that their daughter has become the chief bully in a little gang of girls. Okay. And if you set that into the context, you then look at at the Lord Speaker to Amos to Israel. I heard you cry out in Egypt. Like I listened to your tears, your weeping, your oppression, and I did something about it. I freed you, and I set you into a whole new land, and we we drove out the Ammonites before you know the Canaanites before you, and we settled you there, and now look what you're doing, you're doing exactly what what I I got you about. So just really I think feeling the freedom in a in preaching to be able to not just illustrate using a news story or a familiar book or or a personal anecdote, but just to say, like, how do you connect this emotionally for people sitting in a pew? Yeah. And as I say, is just something that that I'm looking to do very often in preaching. And so that's the Lord and being able to film these stories and have them filmed so well was just an absolute joy. Oh bad.
SPEAKER_03And because they're they're not like allegories. So it it's it's not like you know, this person represents Jesus and this person represents the sinner who is convicted, and and um and but what I what I've noticed is that as people are sort of discussing the stories, it's it's actually the Christian ministers who who want the one for one correspondence, and they they want they want John Bunyan, basically, and they want someone who shows up whose name is Christian, who's like on their journey to the celestial city. And and yet you know it doesn't exactly conform to a one to one correspondence width. certain gospel events. You're basically trying to evoke issues and themes, I guess. Is that what you're trying to do with the stories?
SPEAKER_02It's really about it's about telling stories that people can recognize. And I think if if every single time you know the there has to be you know a substitutionary you know like sacrificial death in every single story I think I think people just feel like you've just kind of fade and switch like whoa what were you doing that whereas if I actually tell a story about someone who is like just pushing with every sinew and every muscle in order to be able to achieve something and then it gets lost and you go whoa how yeah what's your experience with that? Yeah yeah yeah like the gold the gold digger uh yeah episode story looking for gold why would you put yourself through something that you could lose so easily you know um is that worthwhile so yeah it it is a bit of a struggle um kind of unpicking some of that tension that I think uh some of us have as Christians have got which is wanting to say you know here's the Jesus bringer comes in to save the day boom you know that's every story we're gonna tell and you know here's the person who made the bad decision out of selfishness and you know but actually to say human life is a bit more complicated than that and yet the gospel redeems every situation.
SPEAKER_03And the gospel's more rich than that you know I think some people kind of think the only thing that's Christian about Narnia is Aslan on the altar when the whole thing is Christian like the whole yeah yeah exactly.
SPEAKER_02Because I'm now at the stage I'm reading I'm reading Narnia chronicles to my kids and genuinely I start to get sometimes I like pre-read the chapter so that I can read it properly. That's that's the actor in you coming out maybe that's the thing but um but just because yeah you're exactly right all these things about um that are set into that world are like some of them aren't immediately obvious but there's something there's a there's a fragrance of it or there's a and there's some explicit things you know as you say Aslan on the altar is an explicitly Christian message but um the the great irony is that C.S. Lewis never set out to write Christian stories. Sure. Yeah the whole thing was just little pictures he had of a fawn with an umbrella and a witch in a sled and a big lion and he sort of just worked it all out around that. Yeah and then Oh oh there's there's quite a Christian message behind this.
SPEAKER_03Which is a good which is a good word for like creative Christians. Like the big I mean the reason why it came out so Christian was because C.S. Lewis was thoroughly Christian and immersed himself in the gospel story but he didn't then say well how can I do an allegory with a one for one correspondence to this that and the other but he was just so soaked in the gospel that when he was creative out it came yeah which is absolutely and it it's helping people to make those broader connections and I think that's one of the challenges people face particularly in the arts is how do you you know how do you make something that is um genuinely Christian without needing to say Jesus died on the cross for your sins halfway through the song you know that and it's it's really seeing as you say that kind of much deeper and more three-dimensional understanding of what does sin and salvation look like.
SPEAKER_02Now every strand of it will come back to the cross.
SPEAKER_03Exactly yeah yeah crucified is everything like that's the whole message yeah but just to sort of you know say well it's the bridge to life or it's the two ways to live or something like that you kind of go well that those things are true but it's so much more than that and we need to let people kind of understand that a bit more let's press into the the so much more stuff I've got some questions about like the the big doctrines in our systematic theology and how Life Explored thinks about them and communicates them. So obviously the doctrine of all doctrines the doctrine of God what what is this doctrine of God that is shaping Life Explored and that you want to communicate to those who come onto the course?
SPEAKER_02Well we've got it I mean he's he's all the way through so that the sessions are you know uh the good God the trustworthy God the generous God you know every session is is some kind of description positive description of who God is but in terms of the doctrine of God we in in session one when we look at the good God we show that he is father son and spirit so that that he is ultimately a Trinitarian God and that as a Trinitarian God he is eternally involved in kind of self-giving and love eternally um he is the God of love from that kind of great you know sort of wellspring of uh the the Lord is at comes creation so it's sort of it's it's an overflow of his goodness but uh yeah so we've got yeah um you know I've heard there are some other gospel presentations which start with the Trinity and uh we're very we're very excited about those as well.
SPEAKER_03Name two others I know you can name one other my my big plea that may there may there be many more may there be many more that begin with the Father Son and Spirit yeah but uh no that warms the cockles of my heart to see that and to see that you know the whole thing is as you say it's it's the it's God who we are exploring and it in fact at one stage were you even going to call it God explored as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah yeah that was that was a funny little uh little moment in the development and that's a bad title but but it's a great concept and uh it is it is yeah and I think you have ended up with that so yeah which is good yeah um so yeah it I think it because the thing we got most thrilled about as we were developing it wasn't this thing of story it wasn't this um you know way of being very kind of aesthetically kind of minded in terms of communicating stuff it was just God we just thought what he is so absolutely awesome and that's what we're most excited about we just want to talk about him and introduce people to him and like spin the diamond and say look how amazing this God is yeah um and that really comes across yeah yeah God explored is you're right terrible title but a great idea yeah and I think you've preserved that in the uh in the way you've done it okay so doctrine of God what about doctrine of humanity what is the doctrine of humanity that's shaping life explored well we get um so again it it's in that first session so the first session is the Google God and um we look at humanity's creation in the image of God so um uh we look at that and and see that we are kind of the the glory in the garbage of the universe right so we are made for this like outrageously um blessed uh purpose to reflect God you know to to to be his image bearers and yet we fail to do that and but we haven't you know the the the image of God is marred in us it's it's broken in us and fractured and all that sort of stuff but it is still there so that we are still capable of sort of these remarkable things as human beings and and part of the problem is that our because our our sin has you know um set us off with a terrible trajectory and we are still such amazing creatures that we're able to sin in some of the most remarkable and complex way but you know that that image is still you know still that sign of ownership God is still the God you know and the whole earth is his and yet he will himself of people who will be his very own okay what about uh like what is sin on the course what is sin so we we kind of um with Christianity explored we do the kind of failing to meet the standard we you know we look at law breaking you know that sort of thing um but on on life explored it's much more about um idolatry and so it's not that we're we're not worshiping God it's that we're worshiping other gods instead or uh or distortions of the true god like false theology is it is leading our worship and so um yeah sin as we're saying there is it's um that our hearts are as you say kind of factories of idols we're creating other gods to worship and that's that that does two things one is that it it leaves us feeling um useless miserable um and ultimately will end us you know uh facing God's judgment but the other thing is that it defrauds God of the glory that is due to his name and it's it was an illustration it was quite in I don't know we had it in an early version of the course but it was this idea that if I if I'd you ran into my house for dinner and uh it was all beautifully laid out and then uh you could hear someone in the kitchen just preparing the food and put like every so often I'd bring drinks out from the kitchen and then I just grabbed uh a Barbie doll and just said oh isn't she amazing she's prepared all this you know she's she's given birth to these two beautiful children you can see on the photographs and Barbie I love you so much you're you're so wonderful dear like apart from just being you know outraged creepy yep so much mental you kind of go well no you're denying your wife the the the praise due to her name like if she's done that work then she's the one who should receive the glory and honour for it. This illustration has been brought to you by the 1950s sounds remarkably um sexist doesn't I think I don't know no I'm just saying if you did come around to our house and we had a dinner party and I was responsible for cooking the chances are that halfway through the evening the doorbell would ring and Dombos would arrive with some confidence let's get real people yeah I'm doing it as this is the way it is the way it is rather than I'm saying it should be I'll just stop talking now.
SPEAKER_03No that's good. But again a very theocentric vision of sin actually as idolatry and defrauding God of the glory that is due to his name and all that.
SPEAKER_02So um brilliant okay what is salvation according to Life Explorer well salvation I suppose we're saying that um through the the the the idolatry kind of thing we're seeing a lot of failed uh salvations you know so um whatever God you're living for will have some concept of um you know or you'll believe it's gonna save you somehow uh under a certain thing um and I think we would we would say that ultimately it is the rescue of the the true God through the Son and through his death on the cross which um pays for our sin. But one that makes us genuinely happy you know so the best gift we can receive is God himself. So so salvation is the Lord coming to us and giving himself to us. That's ultimately what we're it's about us receiving him as he's poured out for us. So yeah it's it it's slightly kind of different but this is as I said it's all through the cross yeah it's all Christ crucified it's the way in which you know you know sin is dealt with and order is restored.
SPEAKER_03That's very holistic um because you uh quite quite often in evangelism you can think on the one hand some people are really into a fulfillment gospel in which you've got the God shaped hole and you know you tried drinking booze and and women and you know everything else and that doesn't work now try Jesus and you sort of you know you fulfill yourself with Jesus. Then on the other hand people say well where is sin in all that and where is the cross in all of that no we've got a forgiveness gospel a gospel in which sin is the big problem and the atonement is is the great solution. But it seems to me like with you guys and where you're starting the best gift is God himself you're kind of are you able to have your cake and eat it? You can say that actually yes God himself when he comes makes the atonement in death and in blood to pay for our foul sins of of rejecting him but as he gives himself to us we are fulfilled so you you've got both forgiveness and fulfillment together is is that what you'd say or yeah and I I think what we have in the scriptures is a God who promises who promises to fulfill us.
SPEAKER_02I mean this is you know it's a profoundly biblical idea that God is the spring of living water that he's the one who says come to me or who are weary and heavy laden I will give you rest you know so it's Jeremiah and and Matthew 11 and yeah Jeremiah 2 is um is it is what God is saying about what he does for his people now how do you have any access to that only through Christ crucified like you would not be able to how could you have a the spring of living water if if Christ you know hadn't died on the cross how could you have um the one who gives you rest and assurance and peace if the wrath and um the work of the cross had not been had not been done. So I yeah I think it it is a little bit tricky. I mean we don't just want to say you know um hey if you're feeling down Jesus today. Now we're 30% more groovy feelings you know so so yeah we are saying and that's why the whole biblical plot line is quite important yeah uh why we do creation for redemption new creation in the seven sessions because we have to see what these trajectories end up with. It's not just that you will ultimately feel a bit less happy it's that you will face judgment. Like you know you will be so we'll look at passages like Romans 1 and uh the wrath of God has been revealed poured out on them for their idolatry. We look at in the final Bible study is is is Matthew 22 and the parable of the wedding banquet and you've got the guys who go off to mow their lawn and do whatever else because they don't want to come and then the guy who's found in the wedding banquet without the wedding clothes. Yeah and then it's is thrown out in the weeping and gnashing of teeth. So so I think yeah it it is it is a bit more complicated than that and as you go through the Bible you're gonna see those things come through but as I say fundamentally they're all all the the the threads are going to find themselves coming together on the cross.
SPEAKER_03Yes. And because you're so biblical you you're able to keep that balance. You know I mean if you if you bury a nose in Matthew 22 for long enough you've got you know the love of the father throwing a wedding for the son. Absolutely and then it makes sense. Yeah he's enraged by those who you know rebuke his son and and and snub his son and and so yeah he he destroys the city and yeah those who snub his son are on the outside with weeping and gnashing of teeth and it's all at once. Yeah because because you're in the scriptures you're able to hold both those things. Yeah very good now Nate what do you what do you hope is gonna happen with life explored what's what's what's your big hope for you've spent you've spent so long on it that's a good question I I mean I think we would be hoping to reach people we wouldn't have reached had we not made these decisions.
SPEAKER_02I think you know if if there weren't people that we thought we could reach by doing this we'd probably say well why don't we just update the stuff that we've already got what's the need but I do think that there are a number of groups of people types of people individuals who will find it easier to engage with with these things first off. And I mean what the ultimate hope is obviously that those people as they as they look at their own lives as they l ask themselves these questions about what am I really living for what do I think will make me happy that they will be uh convicted of their sin and and see and see the the beauty and the majesty of God I think that's obviously the whole thing. But um yeah I mean it's it's really hard because obviously a lot of the stuff is out on social media platforms and so you want that to get lots of engagement and all sorts but you obviously don't want to live for for likes and views and clicks but we want as many people as possible to see it.
SPEAKER_03So yeah yeah well so do I I think it's I think it's a great resource and uh people should definitely check it out. What's the best place to go?
SPEAKER_02That lifeexplored dot com or where's the where's the best place to go so it sound it doesn't sound like it's a website but life.explow dot red yes so because who has life explored with some dots in well you know I think there's there there's obviously Facebook there's twitter there's Instagram I believe so people could look at that um obviously for us as a ministry we are ceines.org and so people will be able to see all of the different things that we're involved in and each of those is available for virtues through the book company.
SPEAKER_03Excellent and you're very search engine optimized so I yes earlier today I just googled LifeExplored and boom there it was.
SPEAKER_02So good well there you go uh whatever search engine floats your boat you can use.
SPEAKER_03Good Nate thank you so much for spending some time with us been really helpful and and I hope that people have yeah not just been thinking about Life Explorer but also how this stuff informs their own day-to-day witness their own preaching their own youth work and all that kind of stuff because I think everything that we've been speaking about um really has implications for the way we think of and communicate the gospel. So thank you so much for your time and uh God bless you with Life Explored.
SPEAKER_01Oh it's a pleasure good to chat mate that was Nate Morganlock talking to you Glenn uh earlier today.
SPEAKER_03Yes. And he wants everybody to know that he is not a misogynist. He's uh and and his illustration was not you know it was misunderstood taken out of context and my comments about it being from the 1950s was uh wholly um uh irresponsible and I retract that now and um Nate I'm sorry I'm sorry it's a it's a very good illustration keep on using it can't see whether he will or not we've lost a subscriber there with with Nate sorry Nate So if you've got any comments or you wanted to uh ask a question you can go to the web address for this episode of the Avengers podcast and uh enter it there.
SPEAKER_01It's speaklife.org.uk slash T E P. And if you're listening to this relatively recently uh to September 2016 it is then uh it should be near the top somewhere. If it's not if not just keep searching.
SPEAKER_03Keep searching for Nate Morgan Locke and uh this will be like the third episode I think he's been on. But um yeah yeah I think he's he's now rivaling Peter Meade for uh most interviewed yeah so who have we got on that next time? Next time we're talking to Paul Williams who is the vicar of Christchurch forward in Sheffield and a great evangelist author of a couple of evangelistic books one that that is evangelistic itself called If You Could Ask God One Question and another one called Intentional which is uh uh for evangelists uh so we had a uh a great chat uh together about what evangelism means and how evangelism fits into the life of the church and what is the everyday life of witness um so that's coming up next episode.
SPEAKER_01Okay well don't don't miss that subscribe to the Evangelist Podcast if you're not already keep it right and uh we'll send you a note or an update to let you know that the next one's coming.
SPEAKER_03Or just download the app. The app, yes And uh I received a push notification on my app the other day that was telling me about the Evangelist podcast.
SPEAKER_01So yeah speaklife.org.uk slash app makes you happy available on iTunes Google Play and Windows and Kindle I think.
SPEAKER_03Oh very good yeah yeah Kindle Fire it's on there definitely okay we'll uh see you next time. See ya