On this edition of the Evangelist Podcast, we're looking at Ev uh Easter outreach. Easy we're looking. On this edition of the Evangelist Podcast, we're looking at Easter outreach. Oh sorry.
SPEAKER_03The Evangelist Podcast from Revival. Find out what's new in telling people the good news about God, the world, and you. With Andy Brinkley and Glenn Scrivener.
SPEAKER_04Welcome back to the Oh yeah, sorry.
SPEAKER_02Oh no, that's let's give ourselves a round of applause.
SPEAKER_04Welcome back to the Evangelist Podcast.
SPEAKER_02Yes. And to you. You're welcome. And welcome to you, Andy.
SPEAKER_04Oh, thanks.
SPEAKER_02On behalf of everyone listening. My mum, your mum.
SPEAKER_04And no, don't a bad joke, I was just gonna bring in the canned laughter.
SPEAKER_02No, you really need the uh the the uh have you have you got the trombone that goes wah wah wah wah Exactly that's that's more our level.
SPEAKER_04Anyway. So we're talking about Easter outreach this time. Because it's Easter. Yes. Way Um And this is a two-part series. Mm-hmm. Because we think ahead. Yeah. So um first of all, we thought we'd talk about uh the cannonball video.
SPEAKER_02Like a cannonball shot from the heavenly heights, diving down to the darkness, exploded with light, all of that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04This was um what we talked about last time. Yeah. And uh if you haven't seen it yet. Where have you been?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you definitely need to check out the cannonball video. I think it's our best video yet, and uh it's certainly um involved our biggest team yet. Um so Governor B rapping and uh Alex Webb Peplo doing the illustrations and a couple of guys, Sam Quan and Sam Orr doing uh the animation of those illustrations, and it's taken forever to do, um, but I think it's brilliant. And uh yeah, I I I think it could be it could be a really cool way of reaching out with the Easter story.
SPEAKER_04So take us take us back, give us a little bit of history ha when did you how did you come up with this?
SPEAKER_02I think I wrote it pretty much the same day that I wrote the the Bread of Heaven um video, which we did for Easter last year. And so that was a a a simpler animation. In fact, uh Emma, my wife did the the sort of the the children's type drawings for um for that video and um but yeah, so we just simply didn't have the time to do both videos last year, so we decided let's let's put all our eggs in the the one baskets last year and just all our irons in the fire this this this year and uh and go out go all out on it and um so yeah, so the so the poem existed like last year and then sort of yeah, at some point I realised that's not really a poem, is it? It's a rap, you know, born sinking into quick sand, a sick land, a pit damned from the first you know. And so yeah, at that at that stage, you know, I didn't trust my abilities to rap. And uh thankfully um got in contact with Governor B, who um yeah, MOBO award winning Governor B, uh recording his third album as we speak, uh and he said he'd love to be involved. So at that stage, I'm thinking, game on! Yeah, here we go. Um so yeah, so we recorded him a few weeks ago, and then um Alex Webpeplo, who's um been a friend of mine for for many years, and he's he's you know done some graphic novels, um, including The Third Day, which is uh an Easter graphic novel that simply uses the the words from Luke chapters uh twenty-two to twenty-four. Um so because he did that, I thought, uh, we could have a tie-in here, he could do our our uh illustrations, and then we could offer the third day, and the good book company said, Yes, we will uh give people the third day uh as as a free offer if they want to investigate more about Easter. So all those different threads come together and you and you get the video.
SPEAKER_04So I mean it's not just the video, it's kind of uh a way that people can can interact, can find out more, but it starts kind of with the video and they they follow through with you know the book and i email and sort of trying to g engage people in the story really.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and if people do sign up for the book, they sort of give the email and we we sort of yeah, send them. Uh they can do basically 321 the course um by l by watching the videos um through emails that they'll receive. Um So that's another way of of kind of grabbing people in. And you know, we only you know released it yesterday, so um it's early days, but s already people have sent off for the book and already people are on the emails and and getting the course. So let's be praying for for follow-up.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So um if you want to see it, you can go to this episode show notes, uh which we'll give at the end, but also I'll give it to you now, revivalmedia.org slash tep eighty nine.
SPEAKER_02Should we play a clip of it? Here's governor be giving it some welly. From like nineteen seconds in.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_04Oh, but we missed the dramatic intro.
SPEAKER_02I love the helicopter in this.
SPEAKER_01And it's not the line of it.
SPEAKER_02Of people sinking down into quicksand and having a cannibal. Jesus is a cannibal, is he? No, that's not in the Bible. And um yes voice the message. Someone has objected already that this is not a biblical illustration of the resurrection, and uh you know, uh I I guess my argument would be there are plenty of illustrations of resurrection in the Bible. And as preachers, we're always, you know, looking for illustrations. And what's the preacher who doesn't, you know, use an illustration of substitutionary atonements when they say, I don't know, maybe there's a soldier who throws himself onto a grenade in order to save the rest of his platoon. That's an illustration of the cross. Um, yeah, and you know, can we preach that? I think absolutely we can. This illustration is really getting at that a very interesting thing. I I think for many years I thought of Jesus' rescue as being very much like we're in a pit, he offers the rescue rope and lifts us out. Oh, that's nice, thank you, Jesus, and that's what rescue is, and that's how he does it. But think about it, it's not that's not how he rescues us at all. He dives down into the pit and he actually dives down to the deepest part of the pit deeper than we ever go. Um, taking on like wrath and sin and hell on the cross. Um, so that you know, the the way in which he rescues us is not that he remains on high and just offers a helping hand to get us out, but he dives down further than we ever go. And the other thing about resurrection is it's it's not as though Jesus stepped, you know, stepped you know, stepped into death and then stepped back out. This side of it. It's not like he dips a toe in death and goes, ooh, and then comes back. It there's very much the sense in the Bible that that actually he passes through to the other side of death, beyond death, that death is not um death is not a land that he visits and then returns from. Death is a limit to this land, and this this land that we're all born into is just characterized by death and perishing. Um Death is that limit to our lives that we're born into, and he passes through that and into the new lands, the new heavens and the new earth, this this kingdom of light and life. And once you understand that about the resurrection, I think it really, really helps. Um You know, so so often people ask, uh, when we get to heaven, what's gonna stop us from eating the forbidden fruit again? And making a mistake and going through the whole thing all all over again? And again, I think I think that's kind of a misunderstanding of what Jesus does, as though Jesus, you know, we've we fall into this pit and Jesus goes, Oh, for goodness sakes, and he gets down and he lifts us up a as though we're then on the precipice again, ready to fall off, and and then Jesus will have to go, oh for goodness sakes, I'll have to do it again, and rolls up his sleeves and comes and saves us again. That's not what it is. In the Bible, and and especially 1 Corinthians 15, is where to go to, I think. It's it's sort of the longest chapter as this sustained teaching on resurrection that that that Paul speaks of. Um and and he says the body is sown perishable. This is 1 Corinthians 42. 1 Corinthians chapter 15, verse 42. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable. So already he's got this idea of we're like seeds. And we go down into the ground, not in order to be dug up again as slightly improved versions of the seeds that we were, we go into the ground in order to pass through into a different kind of life. The life of the plant or the tree is different from the life of the seed. Um it's the still the same seed, there's still continuity, but it's a different kind of thing. But we are sown in dishonor, verse forty-three, we are raised in glory, sown in weakness, raised in power, sown a natural body, raised a spiritual body. Um and he goes back to Adam and Eve in verse forty-five. So it is written, The first man Adam became a living being, the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. Um and it's just this idea that what Adam was born into needs to die, and it needs to go through death and pass out the other side into this glorious thing. Adam had a kind of a a breath of life the life of the breath that is so fleeting and and and short, and we're gonna think about that next week. Um but it was all in order that the last Adam could come and pass through that death and into life-giving spirit kind of life. Um and this is this is kind of what what Paul is is is talking about. Verse 50 is incredible. He says, I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the the imperishable. Very interesting to think that Adam and Eve were were born into flesh and blood kind of life, but that cannot inherit the kingdom. There has to be a death and a resurrection. Uh, and and that's what Jesus comes to do. Um you know, what you sow doesn't come to life unless it dies. And when it dies, it comes out the other side as this new thing, as this blessed thing. Once you've got that understanding of death and resurrection, that Jesus doesn't just dip his toe in death and come back, and neither does he just reach down and lift us out of death. Um, I think that makes sense to the whole Christian life. What is the Christian life? You read through the Gospels and you see that Jesus is going towards death. He does set his face like flint for Jerusalem, and off he goes. And people are trying to like convince him don't go, don't go to the way of the cross. Let's let's just try and maintain this life of the breath, the life of Adam, as long as we possibly can. Let's keep going. You know, we know we know we're born sinking into quicksand. Let's try and clamber up the sides and and just try to try and make the best of a bad bad situation. What does Jesus do? He plunges down into death and no one can talk him out of it, not even Peter. And when Peter tries to talk him out of it, he's being satanic. He says, Get behind me, Satan. And and down Jesus goes to death and bursts through to the other side. And therefore, if that's his trajectory and if that's the way to life, doesn't that make sense of why Jesus says come to me and have life? But he also says, Take up your cross and die. And it's both things. And we we find it really difficult to understand both things. We th we think, surely he's either come to bring me life in all its abundance, or he's come to, you know, tell me to go the way of the cross and self-sacrifice. And we think those two things are opposites. But when you s when you truly understand that Jesus is the cannibal shot down into the heart of death, then of course following following him is following the way of of self-sacrifice and going his way. But that also is the way of life.
SPEAKER_04Um I think when when you understand one in front of the other rather than you know, either or.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly. It's like you think on on the left hand we've got you know, sacrifice and service and the way of the cross. And on the right side, we've got life in all its abundance. And which which way am I gonna turn? I'm gonna turn to the left. And some Christians are very much into turning to the right and saying, hey, it's about you know groovy vibes and have your best life now. And other people say, No, no, you've you know completely forgotten about the left hand side, and on the left hand side we we we go in a completely different direction, simply you know the way of the cross. And actually, yeah. Actually, with Jesus, it's like you go straight ahead and maybe all you see is a cross, actually. Behind the cross, though, is resurrection. Um and there's no other way to life but through the cross. And and there's and and that really is the fullness of life. When you see Jesus, even Jesus on the cross, he's he's kind of with his arms outstretched to the world, he kind of is giving of himself, and this is this is the true life. Um but it's it's the way of the cannonball that goes down into death and out through the other side. Um and hopefully as people see the video they they just get a sense that actually, you know what? A, I am born sinking into quicksand, and it's ridiculous for me to try and just cling on to this life that is slipping through my fingers, and and you just can't. You you you you cannot make a bargain with the grave. Um so A, we're born sinking into quicksand, but B, here is Jesus going this completely different way, you know, to reverse all natural ambition, as it says in the video. Um and then to then go the way of the cross, which is the way of life. So I hope I hope that it not only sort of reaches non-Christians, but I hope it it it gives to uh uh Christians a much healthier view of Jesus, of death, of resurrection, and of going the way of the cross.
SPEAKER_04So in the video, um you've got the the cannibals coming down um and you've got people there and they're sort of like saying, you know, don't come down here, you're doing it wrong. Yeah. Um what's it like for sort of from from, if you like, in the video, the the people's perspective of what God is doing?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I and and I think yeah, exactly. So you've got people like um sinking down into quicksand, trying to clamber up, saying, Is anybody up there? And the only help that we could imagine coming from heaven would be a rescue rope. And I think this this is really important just for Christians to think about in in terms of pastoral our understanding of what God is up to in suffering is that he's is that he doesn't send a rescue rope. Yeah, so this is like we're in the pit, we're expecting a rope looking up.
SPEAKER_04Gives a ladder somebody else drops down. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02What are you doing? These two of us stuck now. Yeah, exactly. Um you know, so you if if you're out swimming and you know, here comes the lifeguard and you think, oh phew, he's here, and then he sinks like a stone in front of you. Like, oh. And then you feel a tug on your on your leg and he pulls you down with him. And then all of a sudden, you know, you find that somehow the way down is the way out. You know, it's it's that kind of thing. It's really it's a really surprising rescue, and I think that really helps in in suffering. You know, I get so many people so you know say to me, I'm really struggling in life. You know, what's God up to in this? He should have done this, this, and this in order to rescue me out of it. In fact, there was a a a non-Christian guy who um you know spoke about um he I think I might have said this on the podcast, um it was about a year ago. He he said to me, I I was really praying for the first time in my life, because I was um going through a court case and I was praying that I'd avoid prison. And I d and I I I even went to church for goodness sakes, and I called out, please will you save me from prison? And he didn't. And I got set sent down for like three years. Um he ended up doing about a year, and um he said, But looking back on it, that was the only way I was ever gonna get off the drugs. And I did actually get off the drugs, and now I've been clean ever since. But even so, even so he had he had that kind of understanding of you know, God redeemed the situation in this different way. But even so he was he said he said to me, I still don't know what he was up to. I still don't know why he didn't answer my prayer. But that's what we're like. We're always, I just want I want the ladder to climb to get me a slightly better kind of sinking life. You know, I want to I want a slightly better kind of vantage point on this heap that is just sliding down into ruin and death. I want to I want to be slightly above others on top of this compost heap, right? And and and of course, and God is very kind to say, I'm not gonna help you climb up the compost heap. Uh there's the way out is the way down, and here c here comes Jesus and comes down the way of the cross. And that's the way of blessing. And and when we meet Jesus in that way, He leads us into the fullness of life, but it doesn't look like us trying to grab onto a little bit more of this kind of life. It's about us giving up that kind of life, finding new life in Jesus, and through our deaths, our little deaths, but also our our ultimate death, through our deaths, finding real life happens when we give life away. And isn't that what Jesus says? You know, those who lose their lives will find them. Um So again, Cannibal's trying to communicate that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Sometimes when we when we pray, we want you know, we have our request and we we earnestly want that, but when he does it, we don't like the way he does the way he answers our prayer. Yeah, yeah. You know, that's like with Peter, Peter says, I will die with you, you know, I'm ready to die with you. And I'm sure he was in his own way. Yeah. But when it meant just giving yourself up, you know, he was he wasn't ready for that. Yeah, exactly. And uh I often think also of um Rhoda when uh Peter's at the door knocking.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04They're all praying for his release. And there he is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And uh you know, the Lord hasn't answered in the way that they were expecting. They thought he would be released and and everything. Um I'm sure their faith, they believe that God could do it, but it's just the way that does it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And sometimes you meet those obstruc uh obstructions, don't you, on the on the street or whatever. Yeah. Um I wanted God to do it this way, but um he never did it that way.
SPEAKER_02Everyone is full of exactly those stories, which is right right in the heart of the of the video. You've got is anyone up there, does anyone care? Is anyone listening? We're dying here. And and that's everyone's experience, but we don't know what we're asking for. We uh we don't even know what it would look like for God to grant us what we're asking. And it probably wouldn't be very good for us at all if it got answered in the way that we want, because we just want a slightly better vantage point on the sinking compost tape. That's all that's all we think to do. And so, you know, the guy who gets the the cancer diagnosis at fifty and just like, God, where are you? You've got to prolong my life at least another twenty years. Um and you d uh well, let's just sit with that. Like it's desperately sad, and and Jesus weeps with you and he wants to be with you in this whole thing. But what are you asking for? Twenty years extra, okay. Well then at 70 is he gonna let you die or or okay, an extra 30 years. So at 80 is he gonna let you die, or at 90, or 100, 120, 150, 250? At what stage does Jesus actually allow us to die like the seeds going down into the ground and then really live? Now, if that's what he's doing with the world, his answers to our prayers are gonna look very different. Maybe his answer to our prayers will be, no, I'm afraid you're gonna die aged fifty. I'm afraid that's just the way it is. But this is the way of the cross that leads to life. This is the way of the seed going down and bringing life.
SPEAKER_04And sometimes, you know, I remember hearing about someone that um they got AIDS and it became terminal and they said you know, this was a mercy because it made me reassess my life. And uh you know, if I'd just been knocked down with a bus, then you know I've never have considered the things of life, but now I'm faced with death. Yeah. You know, I've been given given an uh extra chance to think about it. And and you, you know, as you say, ten out of ten die. Yeah. And uh you know, it's just when.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Which is why the video starts where it does, like we're born sinking into quicksand, and it and it might be a little brutal to have a little picture of a lovely baby who's then sinking into quicksand, or a couple on their wedding day sinking into quicksand. But for goodness sakes, let's wake up to that. And I think part of the reason why we get angrier at God in the West than people do who have who have it much harder than we do. Most of the rest of the world is much more um theistic. Most of the rest of the world believes in God far more than the West does, but they have much more terrible times in life. What's going on there? I think part of it is here we are in the West, we've never had it so good. This little life of the breath, the life of Adam, we're we're on the on the compost heap that's sinking down, we're we're at the top, and we we just think, oh well, that's that's as good as it gets. And then if anything takes us down a peg or two, we think, well, that's exactly the opposite of what God should be doing. But we only think that because you know we're at the top of the heap. But that heap is sliding down into death, and we need to be faced with that reality, and we'll think about this next week about facing people with the reality of their mortality and death. Because actually the rescue of Jesus doesn't make any sense unless we really understand we're born sinking into quicksand.
SPEAKER_04So uh we'll we'll finish there for the moment, Glenn. Um if you want to see it again, you can go to revivalmedia.org slash TEP eighty nine. We'll have the video link there.
SPEAKER_02Um and there's a download link as well. If you want to play it in church or in your youth group or anything like that, you can download it for absolute free because we're just so generous and loving. Or put it on your iPad and Yeah. Yeah, show it to people.
SPEAKER_04One to one or something. Yeah, do that. Good. Okay, thanks very much, and see you next time. See ya.