On today's edition of the Evangelist Podcast, we're thinking about the power of weakness. The Evangelist Podcast from Revival. Find out what's new in telling people the good news about God, the world, and you. With Andy Brinkley and Glenn Scrivener.
SPEAKER_03Welcome back to the Evangelist Podcast. We've reached episode 88. 88.
SPEAKER_0288 miles per hour. Oh yes, we'll go back in time. Yes. Oh, it's 2015, isn't it? It is. We got this is not till October though. Back to the Future day. Yeah, 25th? Was that October? 26th. October 26th. You know this. I know this. Didn't you once make a frame for frame reshoot of the film Back to the Future? I did. Wow. How old were you?
SPEAKER_03Fat 15. 15? Wow. Well, yeah, my friend who I did it with, uh, he put it up on YouTube. YouTube detected that there was some uh of the original score. Oh, okay. It's so similar to Back to the Future, they said. Yeah, that's right. Wow, this is so good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Were you Doc or did you like did you play any of the.
SPEAKER_03Oh, it was bizarre. We I I played Marty and Biff. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Those bullying scenes would have been interesting.
SPEAKER_03And my friend was was uh uh Doc and George McPly. But no, we did. I suddenly called, you know, we did all the scenes with Doc. Uh with Biff, sorry, with long hair. And then I called up my mum and said, Mum, can you come and cut my hair? And then I played Marty. No way, that's real commitment to it.
SPEAKER_02Wow. Make like a tree and go. It's make like a tree and live, anyway.
SPEAKER_01Get out of here.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, I've got to that. I've got to see this. Because it's 2015 and it was 88. 88 miles per hour. That's it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. How do we how do we segue from the future?
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's alright. We we don't. We just do do you have a sound effect for a clunking change of gears? Like No. No. Next time. Next time. You need a lot more like if you if you listened last episode, uh we had some there's some laughter, there's some no Andy. No Andy. There was laughter. There's a uh what we what we really need, rather than laughter tracks, we need like and we just ooh, ooh, ooh. Yeah. Just just real kind of wah wah wah. That's that's kind of more our level, I think. But um uh yes, good Episode 88.
SPEAKER_03Episode 88, and uh this is this concluding our look at the Power Evangelism series. And uh last time we looked at prayer, and this time we're looking at the power of weakness. Slight contradiction in terms. You might think that, Andy.
SPEAKER_02You might think it's a slight contradiction in terms. Well I mean You might want me to think that you might want to think that I think that you want me to think of that. Anyway, um yeah, I I think power of weakness is a contradiction in one sense, but it's it's kind of the very heart of the gospel, isn't it? Um God's power is made perfect in our weakness. 2 Corinthians 12. And actually, you know, staying with 2 Corinthians, you know, Paul throughout um that letter, you know, talks about you know God comforts us in our suffering. This is how he begins in chapter one, he comforts us in our suffering so that we can comfort others in their suffering. And so actually, you know, his weakness is turned into strength by God as he passes on the comfort that he receives in his weakness. And then you you know you read on to chapters four and five, and Paul talks about how he's a cracked earthen vessel, but as the cracked earthen vessel that he is, you know, the glory of God shines out of him, and he's an ambassador for Christ, but he's an ambassador for Christ, even in all his weakness, and you read on, and there's this stuff about you know the Macedonians are uh are giving their money out of their great poverty, they're actually giving money. Well, that's because it's like Jesus, who, though he was rich, became poor for our sake so that we through his poverty might become rich. So again, Christ makes himself poor to enrich others. We are weak in order to strengthen others. And Paul gets, you know, to the end of the uh 2 Corinthians, and he's talking about the super apostles who go around and they you know they these are these are power evangelists in all the wrong senses. These are the guys who, you know, prosperity teachers of their day, you know, telling people they can have their best life now, and bright, shiny, kind of strong uh kind of evangelists. And and Paul says, These guys are boasting all the time. Let me boast, okay? I'm gonna boast about the number of times I've been stoned and whipped and whipped and shipwrecked and and thrown into prison, and I'm just I'm just so weak, and even though in 2 Corinthians 12 he talks about, you know, I I I had this experience with Christ caught up into the third heaven, yet this thorn in my flesh was given to me, and and I begged the Lord to take away the thorn into my flesh, and the Lord said, No, my power is made perfect in your weakness. And that's the kind of evangelism that Paul does, that's the kind of evangelism that we want to do because it mimics the power of the gospel, the power of the cross. Here is Christ who meets us in our weakness, becomes the most weak, reviled, pathetic, stupid looking thing in the world on the cross, in order to give us his blessing and that kind of thing. So there's there's a really counterintuitive power to weakness.
SPEAKER_03So, Glenn, are you saying that we we all ought to sort of act really weak and feeble and ever so humble.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, the Uriah Heap thing. Oh, I'm ever so humble. Um I mean, you know, I don't think any of us have to act weak. I think we kind of have to realize what our weakness is. Yeah. All the time we're trying to project strength. All the time we're trying to do that. And even Uriah Heap, he's trying he's doing his oh, I'm ever so humble thing as a manipulative technique to try and get what he wants. Even that is a deploying a kind of manipulative technique. Yeah. So we're always trying to offer a strength to the world, and we're always denying our inherent feebleness and weakness. You know, I d I I very rarely think about my mortality, and I very rarely think about just how weak I am. And you know, if you put your hand over my mouth and my my nostrils, I'd be worm food in about five minutes. You know, that's that's how weak and feeble I am. And so I'm I'm not saying we should act weak as though we're not. I'm saying we should get in touch with our already weakness. In the way that the Apostle Paul got in touch with his already weakness, in the in the way that you know the church in Corinth, you know, um, Paul in 1 Corinthians 1, he has to wake them up to their weakness because they think they're strong and clever. And and he's he has to say, not many of you were wise by earthly standards. Not not many of you were noble birth, were you? But God chooses it chooses the lowly things of this world, you know, to nullify the things that um that are not. And and so, you know, he's he's basically saying, listen guys, when you really take a good long hard look at yourselves, you're not noble. You're not wise. You are things that are not. Um and so he's wanting us to get in touch with the stuff that we lack, but right there is where God's power shows up.
SPEAKER_03So how do we engage in weak power evangelism then?
SPEAKER_02Yes, in weak power evangelism. I th I think it's gotta start with what we believe, and it's gotta start with getting in touch with our already weakness. We are dust, and to dust we will return. We are sinners. Um we have no right to be in God's presence. We have no right to any kind of salvation. If we had our rights, we'd be in hell right now. That's and that's that's all that God owes us. That's all God owes me to send me straight to hell. Um everything I have is a gift. What do I have that I did not receive? Again, we're in Corinthians territory the whole time. And I think we're in Corinthians territory the whole time because Corinth was a very self-sufficient kind of a place where people were very uh swayed by rhetoric and power and things that looked shiny and bright. Um and Paul just had to constantly call them back to the cross and therefore get them in touch with their weakness. So it's gotta start with a real theology of the cross understanding that that he who was rich became poor for our sakes. Well, that's incredible. He emptied himself and became nothing and take took the very nature of a slave and all this sort of stuff. So it's gotta it's gotta begin with our our faith in Jesus that this is the path, that this is the way that he calls us to, um, the way of the cross. And and then that continues on with prayerfulness, because because as as we understand who we are, we've got to call out and say, you know, help. You know, I'm drowning. I need you. Um and and so it's it's gotta continue with this this kind of prayer is not, you know, going into God and you know, Lord, I've I've already got this, this, and this sorted out, and I just need you to top me up with this issue and that issue. And if you could, you know, if you could just help me to, you know help me to get this little thing tweaked in my life, then it'll be going fine. Actually, prayer is going in and we're we're a child before our Father, we're a sinner before a God who needs to justify us by his own blood. Um and we need even our daily bread, you know, and we need to call on him for everything. So weak power evangelism kinda continues in that, and and I think in particular when you're talking about evangelism, 2 Corinthians 4 uh says that the God of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers. That's 2 Corinthians 4 verse 4. You know, so our task is so completely beyond us, you know, we can't even begin to to fight the God of this age, Satan. We can't even begin to unveil people's eyes to give them spiritual sights. It's got to be 2 Corinthians 4 verse 6, the God who said, Let light shine out of darkness, that makes his light to shine in our hearts. We're just so completely dependent on the Sovereign Father to to shine his light through our gospel preaching. So that should drive us to our needs in in prayerfulness, and that engages us in our weakness. And I think as we're in the process of talking with our non-Christian friends and neighbours, I th I think weak power evangelism looks like um leading with our weaknesses. Like with the Apostle Paul saying, you know, I've I've been whipped more than anybody else, I've been chucked in prison more than anybody else. Um, you know, 1 Timothy 1, he says, I'm the chief of sinners which is an astonishing kind of admission for him to make. But because he says he's the chief of sinners, he says, Well, but in me God's grace was able to be manifest in in this most incredible way. Because I'm a sinner, God's grace kind of shines through me in such a huge way. And you know, I was I was reading um um pretty much all the way through Lent, if if you go through the the the Anglican sort of um prayer book, you you're saying Psalm 51 almost every day, and and you know, at the end of all this confession about sin, David then says, You know, restore to me the joy of your salvation. He says, Then I will teach transgressors your ways, and sinners will turn to you. And it's like it's gotta be the f sort of the first twelve verses of sin and brokenness and have mercy on me, O God. But then, having engaged with all this, David says, Then I will teach transgressors your ways, and sinners will turn to you. So out of his brokenness and his admission of of horrendous sin, he seems to think he's gonna be a good evangelist at the end of it all. And I I certainly find that the the way to get serious and get real with people is to talk about my own struggles and to to just say, look, like sometimes things just come out of my mouth, and I'm almost almost have this outer body experience, and I see myself saying these things, and I think, oh, how horrible or how arrogant or how cruel or how you know whatever. And I and I notice this stuff coming out of me, and I and I know I don't want to be like this, but I also know that it's come out of somewhere very deep in me, and you know, as I start talking about my own sin, I think it enables others to get real about their their sin. It enables us all to therefore get in touch with our weakness and therefore our need to to call on on the Lord. Um so that's another way that we get in touch with our our weakness in in evangelism. It's gotta start with with a theology of the cross and understanding Jesus who engages us in his weakness. It continues in prayerfulness, understanding our position before the Father. It continues in our own evangelism with an admission of our own sin. Uh you know, last night I was uh talking to um some people about uh preparing them for evangelism, and I and I sort of said, you know, here's a sentence up your sleeve. Um that's what I hate about life. Um you get into the best kinds of evangelistic conversations when you really determine to stare the world in all its brokenness in the face and not to turn away from that and say, Oh, still, you know, worse things happen at sea, and you know, you know, at least there's bunnies and rainbows and uh but but actually to to stare at the brokenness of this world and say it really it really does suck. And at that point the non-Christian wants to say, Oh yes, but but you know, at least blah blah blah or you know but on the other hand there's also nice things as well, aren't there? But but no, to actually keep on pointing back to no no no no, but that's no answer to the grave, is it? Yeah, that's that's no answer to our hearts that just sort of we t tear each other apart with words, and that's no answer to that. And really just engage with our own weak position to the point where we we say, Ah, there's no solution in us, there's no solution in this world that's gotta come from beyond. We've got to call on the Lord.
SPEAKER_03Okay, well, this is the eighth and final episode of our power evangelism series. Um just summarise for us, what what's the take-home message?
SPEAKER_02So we've thought about the power of ordinary Christian living. Because again, we sort of we sort of think of evangelism as what happens at a Billy Graham rally, or it's Hudson Taylor getting on a boat and going to China. Um but but actually it's just the ordinary warp and wolf of the Christian life just lived out as a witness in the world. Um and you know, we thought about one Peter at that at that stage, about just being this priestly community in the midst of a suffering world, called to suffer well and cling to Christ. Um and that kind of is kind of the evangelistic strategy of One Peter, just suffer well, cling to Christ. And when people ask you about your hope, tell them about Jesus. Um but that that power of the ordinary Christian living is just um should not be underestimated. Um and then we thought about the power of church, and I think that's that's again uh an engagement with our weakness, to say that I can't do evangelism by myself, and that the evangelist in the world is not some really bold as brass street preacher with a megaphone who you know, who some Christians look on and think, Oh gosh, I could never have the guts to do that. But actually the evangelist in the world is the church. Because we're weak and because we need each other. And so we we must be doing this together, and we thought about that in the second episode. We thought about the power of preaching, which again looks weak and stupid and pathetic, especially if you're preaching the cross. It's a weak and foolish message. Um but that is the power of God for salvation. We thought about the power of words in season. Uh again, we're just scattering seeds, which seeds they look dumb, they will look weak, they look pathetic. What what could possibly come from a seed? And yet out comes incredible growth. Thought about the power of illustrations and stories, as again we just scatter these words, drop these words in season around the place. We thought about the power of prayer, and if anything's going to engage you with your weakness in evangelism, um it's gonna be praying, uh, because none of us are any good at prayer, so we we can't feel like we're sort of competent professionals when we pray. Um, but we're putting ourselves in touch with our need, God's strength, and then out we go in in the power of weakness. And I I hope what people take away from all this is that you don't have to be um the the shiny professional who's got it all together to be an evangelist, uh, because actually evangelism looks like Jesus, the one with arms outstretched to the world, who to some looks completely weak and pathetic, but for those who actually look to Jesus and they see, oh my goodness, how He loves me there they see the power and the wisdom of God, and their salvation happens. So let's just let's acknowledge the weakness that we have and rejoice that we have a strong God who can work through weak us.
SPEAKER_03Well, we better leave it there for this week.
SPEAKER_02Yes, and for that series, all wrapped up.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so uh you'll have to keep your ears peeled for uh for what's coming next week.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we're gonna think about the cross and how we proclaim it at Easter time, obviously, but how we proclaim it biblically and evangelistically, because some some presentations of the cross trying to be evangelistic actually end up uh being quite ugly um and unbiblical and unfaithful to scripture. So uh we'll think about yeah, how we proclaim the cross and the resurrection at Easter.
SPEAKER_03Okay, great. Uh we need to also mention our cannonball video teaser is out.
SPEAKER_02Yes, so uh yeah. Oh I mean the the the track is sounding amazing. Here we go, here we go.
SPEAKER_01As you can see.
SPEAKER_02So that's Governor B doing his thing.
SPEAKER_03So that's not you then, Glenn.
SPEAKER_02No, uh as soon as I sort of wrote it and it became a rap, then I was out of the picture. There's no point in in doing that. So thankfully, Governor B has stepped in and done a brilliant job, and uh yeah, we're so thrilled with that. Governor B being Governor B being like the biggest name in like Christian rap ever. But he's a Christian who happens to be a rapper or a rapper who happens to be a Christian. Um MOBO award-winning artist recording his third album as we speak. And uh he made some time for us to to uh lay down the the track, to spit the lyrics, as they say. And uh so he sounds amazing, and uh Josh Lucas has done the track and it sounds fantastic, and Alex Webb Peppler's on the drawings, and Sam Quan and Sam Orr have done the animation, and it's looking great.
SPEAKER_03So if you want to see the trailer, you need to go to revivalmedia.org slash TEP88. And uh we'll put it on the show notes there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and other big news, other big news is uh would you like to come and join us here uh at Revival and learn some evangelism, learn some theology, get some practical experience, get hooked into the life of local church. Uh we are offering an apprenticeship here uh starting this September. You can get your training through uh Union Theology, uh, which is a ministry of West Wales Evangelical School of Theology. Uh you can learn from the Reverend Dr. Mike Reeves, uh who's probably been my favorite guest on this program and a good friend. Um so he uh heads up Union Theology, and you'll get the greatest theological education you could possibly could from the likes of him and Bob Leatham and other other people like that. Uh it is an accredited degree level theology degree that you would get studying two days a week, and then the rest of the time uh you could hang out with us. Sounds fun, doesn't it? And uh yeah, and uh get involved with the evangelistic side of things, the media side of things, uh get plugged into your local church and get uh a solid theological and practical evangelistic training. How about that? Doesn't that sound good? Yeah, yeah. So this will start in September. September twenty fifteen. And it's for how many years? For two years. Two years. Um so it's two days a week uh of study, one day of lectures, one day of study time, and then the uh the rest of the time uh getting practical and pastoral training in the life of an evangelist uh and in the life of ministry in the local church. So you'd be mad not to take that up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Come on down to the Sunshine Coast. Have I mentioned we live on the Sunshine Coast, which relatives in Australia think is hilarious that that it's called the Sunshine Coast, because there's a Sunshine Coast in Australia that actually gets sunshine. Uh whereas But there's a bit of sunshine here. Relatively speaking, it's quite nice here. Um so come on down and join us and get well trained. Uh we'd love to have you.
SPEAKER_03Excellent. Sounds great. Okay, well, uh I don't think there's much else to do.
SPEAKER_02That'll do. That'll do. Go immediately and watch the teaser trailer. And then uh it should be out early next week. Excellent.
SPEAKER_03Okay, thanks very much, and see you next time. Bye.