On this episode of the Evangelist Podcast, we're thinking about the power of stories. The Evangelist Podcast from Revival. Find out what's new in telling people the good news about God, the world, and you with Andy Brinkley and Glenn Scrivener.
SPEAKER_01Welcome back to the Evangelist Podcast. We're talking about the power of stories this week. And uh last for last week we thought about illustrations. And this time we're thinking about stories. Does this mean you've given up believing in objective truth and you just want to manipulate people's emotions?
SPEAKER_02Oh yes. Yeah, yeah. So so the person who's always just telling the stories, you just think, well, there's no content here. Um certainly again in in Western culture we think that. Some preachers are like that. Some preachers are like that. They've got yeah, they've got nothing to say, so they tell a few stories. Usually with them as the heroes, and um which is not what we're on about. Um and and you know, sometimes we can feel like we're being manipulated by a story. But I don't know, it all depends on your anthropology, okay? Right. So anthropos, Greek word meaning human, your your doctrine of humanity. Are we, you know, according to sort of Western enlightenment culture, we are Homo sapiens, which means we are the wise men, the wise people, and we are, you know, big brains. And what sets us apart from the animal kingdom is that we can think rationally. Um but I think, you know, in the Bible, actually the the sort of the the the heart of all things is the heart. You know, the the thing that drives human beings is actually, Jesus said, you know, it is from within a person, out of our hearts come. You know, the uh or Proverbs chapter four talks about um, you know, guard your heart, it is the wellspring of your life. So actually using stories is not a way of manipulating our emotions and bypassing our minds, but it is a way of presenting truth in a way that captures hearts and captures imaginations at the same time. Uh, and I think we need to get good at it.
SPEAKER_01Uh what's the biblical case for stories?
SPEAKER_02I I I mean, one one way of coming at it is um, you know, King David has just committed adultery, and Nathan is tasked with confronting the most powerful man in the kingdom, God's man, and you know, calling him a dirty rotten sinner. And um so how does Nathan do it? Very clever. He comes and tells a story, and he and he and he and he really does manipulate the emotions, doesn't he? You know, you know, there was this one man and he had a little lamb, an ick a little lamb, and he held him in his arms, and the air would the lamb would fall asleep in his arms, you think, oh and then you know, somebody takes it and kills it, and you know, what should be done to that man? And David's like, you know, kill him. You are the man. You are the man, David. Boom! You know, and so that's that's not like a story that distracts David from the truth. That's a that's a story that that draws him in and confronts him with the reality of what he's done in a much more profound way than just you know, point one, David, adultery is wrong. Point two, murder is wrong. Point three, you are guilty of both. Conclusion. Um, he tells he tells stories and and and how wise of him to do that. Um or or you look you look in you know Luke chapter ten, uh a teacher of the law asks, you know, you know, what's the greatest commandments? Jesus says, Love your you know, love God and love your neighbour. And you know, he's wishing to justify himself, so he says, And who is my neighbour? And Jesus does not go into a lengthy, you know, dispute about it. Um he tells a story. There was a man going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among thieves, and off he goes. He tells stories, and that's that's so often what Jesus does.
SPEAKER_01So And similarly, you know, as as you were saying, um as we were saying last week, Jesus doesn't go into a big sort of theological um discussion or philosophical things. He just comes and you tell stories and ask questions.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Very often, you know.
SPEAKER_02Shouldn't we do that in evangelism? You know, like so often people want us want to know what's the answer to this question, yeah. And we we reach into our memory banks for an argument or even an illustration. But how much even more powerful than both those things would be to say, think about it this way there's this famous story that Jesus told a man has two sons, and there's a goodie and a baddie, yeah, and the baddie runs off with all the wealth.
SPEAKER_01Or or a testimony or something like that.
SPEAKER_02So you yeah. So it's but yeah, how how powerful just to s to press pause on a conversation and say, Yeah, Jesus told this story like you know, once or um you know, someone brings up suffering and you say, you know, there was this guy, it's the oldest book in the Bible, Job. Have you ever heard about the sufferings of Job? Sometimes we talk about the patience of Job, or we talk about, you know, miserable comforters, or by the skin of my teeth. Have you ever heard that saying, Yeah, that's from Job? Well, in Job, let me tell you the story. And and you're actually immersing people in a Bible story. That's god, that's gotta be the way forward, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01So, what are these some of the Bible stories that you commonly use?
SPEAKER_02Um, so Job would be one of them, um, or like Hosea is a good one, you know. So there's this story of a of a prophet, you know, in the Old Testament, and uh and God comes to him and he says, I want you to be an illustration to the rest of the nation about what my love is like. So I want you to, you know, I want you to have a wife who's a prostitute, and even when she runs away from you, I want you to go and knock on the brothel door to and pay the price for your wife to get her back. Can you can you imagine that? Can you put yourself in Hosea's? No, I can't. But and at that stage you're you're you're asking them to inhabit a story and then you and then you're saying, Well, this is what Jesus has done. You know, he's he's paid the price to be with his bride and all sorts of things. Or you know, so uh often people like ask questions about forgiveness and and how do I forgive, and and actually a very biblical way of talking about forgiveness is to talk about debts being forgiven, debts being paid off by the one that you owe. Um and so I tell the story about you know that there was a king in Matthew chapter 18, a king who had a servant who racked up an impossibly, you know, high debt of billions and you know, and and so I tell that story and and I th I I it it really is powerful when you actually press pause and and and dip into the story. Or or, you know, I I talk about in Mark chapter two, I say, look, one of my favourite stories in the whole Bible is Jesus is in a party and um and he's being surrounded by all these party animals and the religious police gate crash the party and then complain about the guest list. That's a strange thing for a gate gate crasher to do, isn't it? Yeah, that's a strange thing. Um and and they say, Why are you hanging out with all these party animals? You're meant to be this holy rabbi, this son of God. How uh why are you doing this? And Jesus says, It's not the healthy who need a doctor but the sick. I've not come to call the righteous but sinners. And at this stage, you know, you switch between the story and the illustration, and you enter into the illustration and you say, you know, you go to the doctor not because, you know, you you're a picture of perfect health and you think the doctor would be impressed. You go to the doctor because you're sick, and and Jesus says it's the same with him, and and at that stage you're into a really good conversation. If if if there's ever space to be able to to lay out a Bible story like that and to engage with it on its own terms, you don't have to have the Bible open in front of you. You don't have to say, you know, and in verse eight, do you see how many donkeys there are? Yes, there are two donkeys in verse eight. You don't have to do that, but y you y you can just tell the story. And as soon as somebody has accepted the terms of the story, you know, and and as soon as they see themselves at the party or at the king's you know, in the king's palace as they're looking on as the king is forgiving the debt, or or any of these th things, you've you're you're just in the midst of the very epitome of what evangelism is, which is inviting them into the Bible's story and saying, Look around, think it through. So, yeah, use use stories as much as you can. So, yeah, so Hosea and Job, Matthew 18, Mark 2, uh and as I've already mentioned, you know, the parable of the two sons, Luke chapter 15. I roll that out all the time. There's a man who had two sons. Have you heard this story? Hey, well I'll I'll refresh your memory anyway, and I just tell the story. And if they're inhabiting the story, man, you're you're you're really doing the business.
SPEAKER_01And what about telling our stories? We've we've already said about testimonies. Why is it so powerful?
SPEAKER_02I mean, the I mean the quick answer that people always say is is it's irrefutable. You know, you can't disprove my story. It's my story. Um, but I think I think even deeper than that, it's you know, we're we're not looking for a worldview that ticks every box and dots every I and crosses every T. We're we're looking for a connection, we're looking for something that makes sense of life. And if you can start talking about how I used to be a really angry person. Um and actually, as you know, as I met with so-and-so, and they, you know, invited me along to church, and there was such acceptance in the church, and and and I started to realize that I'm wrong about all sorts of stuff. And and I used to be so intent on being right, and that's what got me so angry, and now I realize actually I'm wrong about all sorts of stuff, but I'm still loved. And now I've you know, that kind of testimony is is is really powerful. You you you're not just dumping truth on people but inviting them into a story. It's great.
SPEAKER_01And how would you go about telling your own story?
SPEAKER_02I guess uh often in evangelism training, and I I've I do this, you know, I I get people to practice on one another and get Christians to sort of tell their testimonies to one another, and you do a sort of a before and then how you met Jesus and now since Jesus, blah blah blah. Uh which is important, that that last bit of the story is is important. You don't just say, you know, I I got you know Jesus and then I got a raise and I got a Lamborghini and life is perfect now. Um yeah, you talk about the ongoing battles that Jesus helps you with, so that's important. So it's it's important to know what your story is. Um not so that you robotically kind of um say the words when someone, you know, someone asks you for your story and you press a button and you know, out it comes. But just just so that you're comfortable in in in saying it. I I remember i like in in front of a whole bunch of people, I was I was about to speak somewhere and um someone asked me who my favourite band is and and I said Radiohead and they said, Oh, what's your favourite album? And I I haven't been asked that question since 1997 when the answer was okay computer. And I and I sort of said, Well, I I guess okay computer, it's um and but then I was trying to update my answer because I, you know, I hadn't really thought about it in the last, you know, twenty years and and um and I gabbled some sort of answer and um it wasn't a very convincing answer because I I hadn't really thought it through. And uh and actually, you know, now I think in Rainbows, uh probably Trump's okay computer as my as my favourite radiohead uh album. And I can I can say that with some measure of fluency because I've thought about it and and gonna But the the point is not not to have your story down pat. Um the the the point is to be able to to pick on a a certain aspect of it. Like if anger is the issue that you're talking about, to be able to just dive into that aspect of your story and say I used to be angry and yeah.
SPEAKER_01Making a connection, I suppose, with the with the listener and you know, relating what you can of yourself to to them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And because they cannot see themselves as a Christian. Of course they can't. In the same way that you're like, if you ask me to imagine myself as a vegan, Glenn, can you imagine yourself I I I honestly can't No bacon. No bacon. Are you serious?
unknownI can't know.
SPEAKER_02But like if you were to convince me of veganism, it wouldn't be because now I can see myself as a vegan. It would be because there's a whole, you know, the there's this reality about the food chain, and there's this reality about the sustainability of this planet, and there's this, you know, and that would be what would convince me, even though I could never see myself becoming a a vegan, but the truth would convert me to veganism in the same way. No non-Christian that you're talking to can see themselves as a Christian. Very well, very few can. They can't they couldn't imagine themselves being a Christian. But what will convert them to being a Christian will be the truth out there that Jesus is Lord. Okay, so and if and as soon as you say Jesus is Lord, bad luck you are a Christian, okay. Um but what your story does is it it just kind of it says to people, I went on a journey. I could never have imagined myself as a Christian either, but I I went on that journey, and you're fleshing out what it would look like to go on that sort of journey yourself. And so that the non-Christian gets a gets a vision for, oh, I I suppose, I suppose you're not just born a Christian, and I suppose I could go on that journey too. So all those things are are helpful with stories.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Okay, well, uh, we've better leave it as a short one this week.
SPEAKER_02So uh coming up in um next week's we're we're talking about the power of prayer and the power of weakness. So as we're talking about power evangelism, um, it's very ordinary. We speak of Christ, we live for Christ, we do it in the community of the church, we do it prayerfully, and actually God works his power through our weakness.
SPEAKER_01Excellent. Well, if you like the evangelist podcast, you can sign up regularly. Uh revivalmedia.org slash T E P eighty six. We hello have all the uh subs subscribe links there uh and uh usual links to the likes of your book.
SPEAKER_02Oh yes.
SPEAKER_01And uh have I mentioned my book? There is a there's a book to not mention your book. I'm three to one three two one. Yeah. Thanks a lot, and uh see you next time. See ya