On this episode of the Evangelist Podcast, we're thinking about the power of words in season.
SPEAKER_00The Evangelists Podcast from Revival. Find out what's new in telling people the good news about God, the world, and you. With Andy Brinkley and Glenn Scrivener.
SPEAKER_01Welcome back to the Evangelist Podcast. We're discussing the power of words. We're doing uh a series on power evangelism.
SPEAKER_02Power evangelism.
unknownPower evangelism.
SPEAKER_02Yes, can we get some reverb on that in the in post-production? Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01Power evangelism. Power evangelism. Um I've lost my You were overpowered. I was overpowered by my words. You haven't mentioned that the evangelist podcast has changed name. Oh, okay. Have you have you put the We've removed the apostrophe.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay. I I was wondering where where you were going to put the apostrophe. Because, yes. Evangelists uh the apostrophe at the end of evangelists means that there are plural evangelists who own the podcast. Yes. If it's between the T and the S, it means there's one evangelist that owns the podcast. Or it's yours, dear listener. It's yours. Um or So what does it mean if it's without an apostrophe? The evangelists podcast.
SPEAKER_01The podcast for evangelists?
SPEAKER_02Yes. Okay. Yes. Yeah, there's no ownership. There's no yeah, okay. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Anyway, if you haven't seen the uh our latest video offering, the uh beloved video, do have a look and share. Hopefully you you had a look uh on Valentine's Day. Yeah, this is um from Sam Quan. Put together some beautiful shots of weddings and things like that that uh he had in his archive and put it you recorded a poem and uh put it all together.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and Josh Lucas with some very lovely cinematic, romantic, big epic soundtrack. The tissues out. It is. It's it's one of those, yeah, no, very, very pleased with the way it looks. I think it looks very, very pretty and uh yeah, it's great. So get sharing.
SPEAKER_01And we're also gonna be releasing a new Easter video called Cannonball.
SPEAKER_02Cannonball, yes. We're passing over from the realm of spoken word into I don't know, is it slam poetry, is it hip hop, is it is it rap? Oh dear.
SPEAKER_01It's uh a comic book style animation.
SPEAKER_02Jesus the superhero, he's the cannonball shot from heaven.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so look out for that. So to dive into the content then, um, we're looking at the power of words in season. Hmm. So this is quite similar to last week, the power of preaching as a power of preaching. How is it different?
SPEAKER_02Well, I guess last week we were thinking about preaching as an event and maybe an event that belongs in church and the power of that evangelistically, and and we need to, you know, remain confident in the power of of preaching as an event. This is more the power of words in conversation. Just in the in the run of daily life. I was just uh speaking to a friend of mine, she said uh she had a builder inn and um and they were talking about uh you know life being very, very difficult and and she being very bold, she just said, you know, actually the Bible says we're all evil. Um some are more evil than others. Some are more evil than others was her was her comment. And and he actually found himself agreeing with her because he'd just been sort of lamenting the you know the the state of the world and and she just took the opportunity to say, Oh, you know what, the Bible says we're all evil actually. And he said, You know, I'd agree with that. And all of a sudden the power of words, and and later on in the conversation, um he said something about a worry that is uh was on his mind, and and she said, Well, maybe you should pray about it. And he said, Well, maybe I will tonight. So just the power of words in seasons, just the power of of you know, speaking up for Jesus uh in the run of daily life. Um we often go gulp and think, Oh, this is gonna go down like a lead balloon. But what if our words are like seeds?
SPEAKER_01Um And you know, w one or two words can really make a difference. Yeah. Sometimes, you know, you you don't need sometimes you don't need a big long illustration or Yeah. It can just be one or two comments and that's it, you know.
SPEAKER_02I know, exact I mean, uh a big part of my story was um I was doing a Bible study with a with a friend, and I'd spent my whole life thinking that whatever Christianity was, it was about just copying Jesus, and Jesus was a good guy. So you just try and be a good guy and God will like you maybe. And we did this sort of Bible study on on the Garden of Gethsemane, and I remember saying to him, you know, I just I just don't think I could be like Jesus, you know. There he is, you know, praying so earnestly and is about to embrace death on behalf of mankind. I just don't think I could do it like Jesus. And just a little word in season, he he said, What do you mean, do it like Jesus? I said, Well, I don't think I could copy him. He said, You've you think we're meant to copy him. In this story, in the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus, you uh Glenn, you're not Jesus, you know, you're Peter. And what's Peter doing? He's you know, foolish, stupid, failing, sleeping Peter, and Jesus prays for him. Just a little word in season and utterly revolutionary. You know, my uh my whole life was turned upside down, just in a in a time. Yeah, the power of words, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Last time we spoke about uh making tenuous links between lightning and uh you know the weather and Oh, when Jesus comes it will be like lightning. Yes. So is this about sort of crowbarring a gospel conversation into a regular conversation? What do you mean?
SPEAKER_02Um actually, you know, as you ask that question, I start to think, you know, sometimes you read the gospels, and it sounds a bit like that, doesn't it? You know, Jesus at the is at the well with the woman of Samaria, and you know, and all of a sudden he's like, you know, if you knew the gift of God, you would ask me, and I would give you living waters, and and she's just like, you know, sir, you know, show me this well, and then I won't have to come back to this place. And he and and at times, you know, Jesus does, you know, just come in from a very different angle in a conversation, um, and bring to bear spiritual truths, and and and maybe we need to be less uh touchy about sounding uncool. Because at points Jesus does not sound cool, like he doesn't just smoothly go from one thing to another. Sometimes in conversation, Jesus is speaking on a totally different level to what the other person is is speaking at, and yet he knows what he's doing and he's bringing to to bear the power of the gospel in in in an amazing way. So maybe you know part part of the answer to that question is we need to get uh less sensitive about appearing uncool. But um I I don't think it is just always always sinking to crowbar um a gospel conversation into a regular conversation. Um but uh and part of that is seeing a long game and seeing um the the purpose of this conversation might not be uh to bring them to faith by the end of you know the chat. Maybe the purpose of this conversation is just to show them that oh, you know, Christians have thought about this issue a little bit. And there is there is a Christian view on child rearing or whatever it is. Um and maybe the maybe the the end goal of this conversation is not to to bring someone into the kingdom right there and then. So part of it is sort of having a having a long view of um what we're what we're aiming at, and and part of it is thinking again what we thought about in the first episode in this series thinking about you know not always trying to spiritualise a conversation but trying to humanize ourselves and therefore the words that we bring to bear they they can be no less gospel words, but what we're really trying to do is to dig into our friend and into their motivations and their heart um so that we can bring a deeper word than just bringing a superficial, you know, gospel illustration to bear um on another thing. So those those are all sorts of um things to bear in mind as as you seek to bring a word in season to somebody.
SPEAKER_01It is difficult sometimes. I mean I've had a conversation with somebody and then you go away and then afterwards you think, oh, I should have said this. Yeah. Or I could have said that that would have been really good, you know. I know. And you often sort of feel regret on missing an opportunity to say that.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01What should we do with those feelings of regret?
SPEAKER_02I think rejoice in them because A, it shows that you're seeking those opportunities, and and B, it's it's showing that you are in those sorts of conversations and and there is there are those sorts of potential. And the fact that you really regret it is a wonderful sign that you are kind of ev ev evangelistically minded, that that that sort of matters to you. And you can, you know, as as you always think of the right thing to say half an hour later, um well that's good training as well. And you do get opportunities that come up again, because you know, non-Christians don't have that many questions about Christianity. Um these days n people don't really know enough about Christianity to have more than one or two objections to it. So as you fluff one oppos opportunity, yeah, start to think, how would I have said that differently? And there there are opportunities to come back. Um but over and above all those things, you sort of say, well, you know what, Jesus died for evangelistic failures too. You know, and so often we we think, oh, the gospel is so vital that when we fail at that, it's a different category of sin. You know, I might lie to somebody to save face, and that's one category of sin. But if I don't take a gospel opportunity with Uncle Henry, he's going to hell forever, and that's my fault, and and it's very it would be very easy to think that there is, you know, there are venial sins like lying and there's mortal sin, like not not evangelizing, and that that cannot be forgiven at the cross. We need to we need to know, as we're feeling those regrets, we need to know that Jesus died for evangelistic failure as he died for every other kind of sin. It's not like he's dying on the cross for every sin except the fact that you fluffed a gospel opportunity. So you you do need to do the gospel on yourself and just say, you know what, God is big enough to handle Uncle Henry and to and to give me an opportunity, another opportunity. And I take this opportunity to confess to the Lord, why was it I didn't grasp that opportunity? Was I too busy? In which case, maybe my priorities are all out of whack that you know I actually wanted to make a meeting rather than you know, proclaim Christ to someone who desperately needs him. Maybe it's my priorities that need to change. Maybe I just didn't want to sound foolish. Maybe I didn't want to sound uncool. Um maybe maybe I just didn't want to get into a gospel conversation. May maybe I don't know the answer and I need to find it out. Maybe I am ashamed of the gospel answer that there is in the Bible, in which case I probably need to do some more work on it. Um because may maybe the answer that I've got in my head that I don't want to share because it s sounds horrible, maybe that's not right. And maybe actually the gospel has a better answer than the one that's in my head and I need to do some more research. So there's all sorts of reasons why we might not have taken that opportunity, and we need to sit with that and we need to rejoice that we feel sensitive about it because it it means that we want to be a witness. Um, we want to get better, um, we want to learn from our mistakes so that the next time it crops up, we do have something to say. And we want to look at our own hearts and think to ourselves, why didn't I share in that moment? And how can I learn? Knowing that underneath there is all the forgiveness in the world for evangelistic sins as there are for every other sin. So there's there's lots to learn when we when we fluff our our lines.
SPEAKER_01Some people make a big distinction between faith, revelation, the spirit, and words, argument, and persuasion. Is that the right way to think about it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, sometimes people sort of sort of say it's not about you bringing the right word to bear in a in a certain situation, or it's not about you can't argue people into the kingdom, that sort of thing. What they need is simple revelation from on high, and they, you know, and that's what's going to convert them. And I I think that can be an unhealthy um divorce. I th I think, you know, you look through the scriptures at the way the Holy Spirit reveals himself. Well, look at the scriptures, you know. Um, what is the Bible if it's not people in their ordinary lives making arguments, um, bringing wisdom to bear on in on situations, and actually the the way the Holy Spirit has authored the Bible is that it is a very human book. Of course it's God's word, but it's also a human book. Um and when you see what human preachers in the Bible are like, um, that actually they seek to persuade people. Paul was always seeking to persuade people, to reason with people in the synagogues, uh, to bring a word, a message of the cross to bear um with people. And so I don't think we should despise just ordinary words, ordinary arguments even, ordinary conversation, because that that actually is where the Holy Spirit shows up with power. That actually, yes, faith is a gift and it must come by revelation, but that revelation can come just in the course of ordinary words. So I th I think we need to we need to understand that yes, the Spirit needs to show up with power in someone in order to to bring them from Adam to Christ, from death to life, and all these sorts of miracles need to happen, but the miracles happen with ordinary, ordinary human words and reasoning and argumentation and yeah, so so I wouldn't want to put a big divorce between my ordinary words and the Spirit's power over there. I think actually the the Bible lend leads me to believe that God makes his appeal through us, 2 Corinthians 5, that we are ambassadors for Christ, even as we we just reason with people, persuade people, use all that language that 2 Corinthians 5 speaks of. So I think we need to have a a much bigger vision of what our ordinary words can do, and and and a more incarnated view of how God works uh in bringing revelation. And actually, he works through our foolish and weak words.
SPEAKER_01So it's not about appearing clever.
SPEAKER_02Is it no, it's not about appearing clever. Um, so I mean Paul makes that point in 1 Corinthians 1 and 2, doesn't he? That he doesn't he doesn't come with superior eloquence and wisdom and and and that kind of stuff. So as as I as I make an appeal for, you know, we can reason with people and argue and and all that sort of stuff, it's not a it's not about um being a cleverer person than the non-Christian to argue them into the kingdom. Um but it it it just is on it is it just is 1 Peter 3 15, you know, that when people ask for the reason for the hope that you have, that you're prepared with some words, and they don't have to be clever words. It's not like I need to come with an argument for, you know, um the cosmological argument, the ontological argument, the tele teleological argument and all that, you know. It's just being able to put words to um a testimony. I couldn't have and you can even say, look, I'm not I'm really not trying to be super spiritual, but I don't know how I would have got through that miscarriage if it wasn't for Jesus. And I'm not, you know, and and even so to say, like like I I know this sounds super spiritual and I know I know this sounds like weird, but I don't think I could have gotten through the divorce whatever without Jesus getting me through. Um just the power of that word coming into a conversation is immense and we need to prize that power and pray for courage to drop those gospel seeds into our conversations.
SPEAKER_01So what are some examples of this working well?
SPEAKER_02I don't know. I I mean it's it's all about God's grace in working through our feeble foolish efforts. But but uh I remember a friend of mine saying to me in Starbucks I need to be able to forgive myself and until I f can forgive myself I can't, you know, forgive other people. And I can't remember exactly what I said to him, but uh but I I just sort of said that he wasn't a Christian at the time. I I just sort of said if forgiveness is like a debt that sort of somebody cancels, I guess you can't really forgive yourself, can you? Because I can't cancel my own debt, you know, because I've got I've got no resources to pay my own debt off with because I'm in debt, you know. Like think about it, if you're in debt you can't pay off your own debts. And if you've made a mistake, you can't forgive yourself because you're in debt, you know. And I was just sort of feeling my way with the illustration as I was saying it, and I didn't, you know, say it perfectly at all. And then was able to off the back of that sort of say, actually, like for me, there's someone beyond me who gets to forgive me, and it's Jesus who's paid the debts, and actually having received the payoff from him, then I can pass it on to others. And I think that's kind of the way it works. And he's a a Christian, he's today he is really going for it with the Lords and testifying to his grace, and you know, and he points back to a a stupid little you know conversation in Starbucks that just shifted the way that he was thinking. Just just kind of a word in season that that shifted something in his thinking and and it led to wonderful things.
SPEAKER_01So, great. Well, let's uh pray that we have opportunity to say words in season. Well, we better leave it there for this week. Uh, thanks very much for listening to the Evangelist Podcast. The web address for this episode is revivalmedia.org slash tep eighty four. And uh you can find all the links there to the video and opportunity to share and subscribe and all the rest. Very good. Okay, so uh thanks very much and see you next time. See you next time.