Today on the Evangelist Podcast we're talking to Adrian Holloway.
SPEAKER_00The Evangelist Podcast from Revival. Find out what's new in telling people the good news about God, the world, and you. With Andy Brinkley and Glenn Scrivener.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to the Evangelist Podcast. I'm Andy, this is Glenn. Hello everybody.
SPEAKER_03Did you forget who you were or who I was?
SPEAKER_01I just thought I'd do it less formally. Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Or a dramatic pause. I thought it was quite poignant. You had a certain gravitas to you.
SPEAKER_01So today we've got uh Adrian Holloway on on the line. Or uh here's one I did earlier. That's it. Yep. Um interview that you did with him. He's sort of involved in um university work.
SPEAKER_03He does a lot of university student uh evangelism uh as well as being uh heavily involved in the New Frontiers uh churches. So he's uh yeah, an evangelist heavily into student stuff, but also uh heavily into the life of of local church. So I love that combination and it's good to talk to him about that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, as recording, it's what, 6th of November, and we're just approaching Remembrance. Yeah. And uh you've done a video for Remembrance.
SPEAKER_03So Yeah, so the same team that brought you the Halloween video. Um so uh uh we have filmed a video in London, um sort of based in Highgate Cemetery and Imperial War Museum and some of the war memorials at uh Hyde Park Corner, and it's just a three-minute spoken word video um to be used in church services, but also just to be shared online on Facebook and Twitter and that kind of thing. So uh yeah, we'll put that on the show notes and uh it could be one to to watch and share, and uh hopefully it it um not only encourages uh Christians but also reaches non-Christians too.
SPEAKER_01And uh are you doing a Christmas one?
SPEAKER_03That's a good question, Andy.
SPEAKER_01Uh I've got I've got the idea.
SPEAKER_03Uh we have the technology. You've got to get your camera out on Christmas Eve. That's that's what we did uh when was that? When we first did the anti-Sandy Ranty. Two years ago we did the the first version of the anti-sandy ranty.
SPEAKER_01It's like Glenn comes out and he says, Andy, can we film tomorrow?
SPEAKER_03It's like okay. I wrote a poem last night. This is like the 21st or something of December. Um and uh I haven't been as bad um since then. No? Not quite. A couple of days notice. A couple of days' notice. So we've got the Remembrance Day one out, like on the 4th of December. That was like a full week in advance of uh Armistice Day.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But uh no, I've got I've got a good idea, I think, for a video. That doesn't always translate into a good video, but um we'll we'll give that a go. But um otherwise you can just share the anti santi ranty release.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, share the well. Christmas comes around every year.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Oh, there's that video again with that Glenn guy.
SPEAKER_03I thought I muted him. Oh no. Mute again. Unfriend, that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Cool. So you went up and you spoke to Adrian Holloway, and uh we're gonna hear your interview now with him. Excellent. It's a little bit echoey, but um, it'll do.
SPEAKER_03Well, welcome to the Evangelists podcast. Glenn Scrivener with you here, and I'm joined today by uh Evangelist Adrian Holloway. Hello, Adrian. Hello, Glenn, thank you for having me. Oh, it's a pleasure to be here. We're cramped into my little room in uh somewhere in Herefordshire. Uh and we're where where are we again, Adrian?
SPEAKER_02I think the nearest sign of a place where people live is Ledbury. Yes. Does that mean anything to anybody? Uh I don't know about anybody. I must admit I hadn't heard of Ledbury before.
SPEAKER_03So apologies to the people of Ledbury. It means everything to you. But um yes, I'm I'm hoping to get some petrol from Ledbury later because uh I I had the uh the red light of my uh my uh petrol warning light on for about the last half hour of my journey. But uh I couldn't find a petrol station, but uh I'm sure we'll get there. We live by faith. Um so we are here um trying to help Cardiff University Christian Union uh to think about mission and uh because you're leading their their convinced mission that's coming up in November, is that right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so in November there are five different university CUs in the Cardiff area who are coming together to put on an evangelistic mission called Convinced. It's something that they've done for several years, and there'll be lots of different lunch bar events on different university campuses, but one big evening event. So I will be speaking at lunchtime at Cardiff University each lunchtime, but I'll also be speaking at the evening events which are at Highfields Church in Cardiff. So that'll be happening in uh November, and then I'll be coming back in December to speak at their carol service.
SPEAKER_03So carol services are something that you've um been getting into in a in a big way in the last few years. Now, it seems to me that you've done some some massive ones recently, sort of Durham and uh and Newcastle and Southampton and places like that. Um, how did you get into that?
SPEAKER_02Well, um I would say that one of the reasons why I probably am an evangelist is because in my own time as a student, Glenn, when I was at Durham many years ago, and we're talking about 25 years ago here, J. John, a well-known British evangelist, came and did the university CU Carol service at Durham Cathedral, and uh that was a defining moment for me because there he was talking about Jesus in a relevant and contemporary and funny way to 1,400 students, and loads of people that I knew who weren't Christians were there, and the following day I had all these conversations with all these people that I'd never managed to tell them anything about Jesus, but they'd gone to the carol service, and I thought, wow, this is just such a fantastic draw. Yeah, um, and everybody had a good time. You know, I don't know of anybody who thought, oh, I didn't like it, or I wish I hadn't gone. Everybody was positive, so I suppose that just it awakened me to the possibility of CU carol services being a great way for people to hear about Jesus. Yeah, such an easy invite, isn't it? Yeah, exactly right. It's uh it's uh nothing really bad happens when you invite someone to a carol service because it's not that odd, and it is Christmas, yeah, and most people think it's a nice idea, even if they don't come, um they probably wouldn't be offended by the invitation. Um, and so it's a relatively easy thing. And there there undoubtedly are people, I don't know how many, but there definitely are people who want to go to a carol service, they want to go along, and they're quite glad to have the chance to sing. Um, so for those kind of people, yeah, um, you know, I I think it is something that is perhaps unique to our country. I don't necessarily think that you know it's the case all over the world, but certainly in Britain, carol service attendances are rising. And you've been encouraged recently with with some of the carol service you've been doing? Yeah, it's been amazing, Glenn. I've been privileged to speak at the Durham events, Durham Cathedral event, which is uh which we had 3,200 at. Wow. I spoke at the Birmingham University one where we had 1,400. I spoke at the Leeds one where we had a thousand, I spoke at the Southampton one where we had two and a half thousand. So there, you know, it's been a privilege to be able to speak to so many people at Christmas about Jesus.
SPEAKER_03I mean, how many other opportunities are there in the calendar for an evangelist to speak to that number of non-Christians?
SPEAKER_02It's yeah, I mean it's it's obviously a brief time. We're talking about 20 minutes, yeah. And there is only so much you can communicate in 20 minutes, plus you are talking to people who are a long way away from faith in Christ, and then you've got the question of well, okay, if they do respond, and many of them do, uh, then it's still a journey to get from where they are, let's say they're responding in some venue somewhere, to actually being a disciple of Jesus and being in a church. So, you know, we're talking about almost something that's like the very start of their journey, but yeah, you're right, it's it's a fantastic opportunity, and um what when I when I did the leads one, somebody said I think it might have been one of the UCCF staff workers said, This is the largest indoor evangelistic event in Yorkshire.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Which just sort of does put it in perspective.
SPEAKER_03Um do you have any idea sort of how these get followed up? I mean, I I guess it's sort of the uh the eternal frustration of the evangelists, you know, we go somewhere, we speak of Jesus, and there there can be a response in the moment. And I guess at that stage you trust the Christian unions, you trust the local churches to sort of follow up.
SPEAKER_02Is that just something that you have to, as you're driving on the motorway back from Durham, you just have to, you know, commit them all to the Lord or Well, I I I mean, as it happens, I've just been meeting with some guys here in Cardiff, and one of the things we one of the things I put to them is look, if you want to go for this and follow the sort of plans that I'm suggesting, then we need to talk about the fact that you could have, let's say, a hundred names and a hundred phone numbers of a hundred people who are responding, and it's gonna be the end of term. What are you gonna do? So we actually had a discussion that they suggested something as a follow-up step, and I have to be honest, I said, look, you know, I don't think that's gonna be effective. I think that that probably won't result in people coming along to what they were suggesting. So I suggested something else, which actually, as it happens, they agreed to. So yeah, I mean, I I I don't live in Cardiff, so I won't be around to do the follow-up myself. Yeah, but I certainly do think it's important for somebody like me to chat to them about you know what I've seen work, what typically doesn't work.
SPEAKER_03And what does work, you would recommend you know, call them within 24 hours, try to meet up with them, that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02So as we were going through it, one of them was suggesting um we would invite them all to the CU meeting. And I said, Well, in my opinion, it's fairly easy if I'm not a Christian to go to a carol service in a well-known public building with hundreds of people. When you invite me along to your central CU meeting, that is way outside anything. I don't even know what that is, you know, like where is it, what happens, you know, that that's the big step. That that's basically going into the unknown. So, um, at which point one of the guys I was meeting with says, Look, you know, what I would do is I'd seek to ring them rather than text them within 24 hours.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02And of course, I was absolutely delighted. If he hadn't said that, I would have said to him, in my opinion, you'll get 10 per sorry, 10 times as many people connecting with you over the long term if you ring them rather than text them. Yeah, absolutely. And then again, more if you text rather than email.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yeah, exactly. So, as a as a seasoned uh university student evangelist, among many other demographics that you speak to, but you do you do speak at university missions. I'd love to learn from you what's your sort of strategy? You've got a week with people. Um, taking them from a Monday to a Friday or a Monday to a Saturday. What do you what are you seeking to do first with the Christian Union and what are you seeking to do with the non-Christians who come in front of you? How are you seeking to lead them to Christ?
SPEAKER_02Well, Glenn, I tend to tackle the most, I don't know, whether they are the most popular uh objections, but certainly the ones that I think help people make steps forward. So I'd start off with hasn't science buried God? And then I would go on to um probably we can't trust the Bible, or can we trust the Bible? Talk about uh was Jesus just a good moral teacher, um, then look at the resurrection, did that really happen? And then maybe take on suffering in terms of why would a God, good God, allow suffering. And then in the evenings I typically be doing a those are lunchtime events, those are lunchtime events, yeah. Sorry, they would be lunch bars, and then the evening events would typically be talks from the gospels or talks about Jesus preaching the gospel, and I would seek to make them uh meal with a message event. So I probably go so far as to say that I wouldn't do an evening event without food.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Because I haven't seen that work effectively. So um yeah. So yeah, the idea behind it is that the lunch times are the intellectual objections, it's a 20-minute talk with QA, and you get a free lunch. So it's a relatively small commitment for somebody to come. You know, the worst thing that happens is that they listen to some Christian talk for 20 minutes, and then after the questions they can go. Yeah. So nothing really bad has happened.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, the evenings are typically people who are the friends of Christians, and they are typically people who are closer to faith. They know Christians, they might even share a house with Christians, and there we would be seeking to lead them to Christ, not just look, I've just tried to answer that question, now ask me questions. So the evenings are more okay, we've heard the gospel now. Where do you stand? Um, and asking people to respond for salvation. Although possibly not using that word, but you're asking people to respond, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Now I've just um heard you give a talk to the students, uh, a brilliant talk from Revelation 21, 22, and you dropped a phrase in that you said something like uh mission has to flow out of our security in Christ. Did you say something like that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I just made a humorous start telling you with an anecdote and then mentioning that this particular guy who is a church leader now, um, yeah, that he said that our mission f flows out of our identity in Christ. So if if let's say I become really confident that God loves me, all my emotional security is in that, in God, and nothing can ever separate me from Christ, then I'm much more likely to be able to go and do flyering or cold contact evangelism or whatever, because I'm thinking, look, it's not really about me, I'm actually fine, I'm sorted, I know that you know uh Jesus is never gonna let me go. Um, I'm securing Christ, so therefore I I want to tell others, as opposed to if you're really not sure and you're lacking that sense of identity, confidence, then it's much more likely that the cold contact stuff will be a much more fearful thing, or even just making peep making people aware that you're a Christian in the first place.
SPEAKER_03Um you could be the brash kind of cold contact person and and you find your finding your identity in that kind of thing, you know, Peter style, you know, the you know, the night before Jesus dies, even if everyone falls away, I never will. So his identity in himself, really.
SPEAKER_02Right, yeah, that's a very good insight. I hadn't thought of that.
SPEAKER_03And and then kind of, you know, he crumbles even with the servant girl around the fire. You can Yes, but I think that's that's so true what you say about our identity in Christ having to be the the central security from which mission flows. That's that's absolutely vital. It's kind of what we're here doing, isn't it, as uh as we teach the the Cardiff uh CU. Can I take you back to uh how you grew up? Now I know from your talks that your father was a head teacher, is that right?
SPEAKER_02Yes, my dad was a uh the headmaster of a well-known public school and uh he was in that role for 22 years, so yeah, I was a headmaster's son.
SPEAKER_03Goodness me. And did you grow up sort of was it sort of church going and chapel going and that kind of thing? In terms of in terms of school? Oh, yeah, sorry, uh yes.
SPEAKER_02Um well uh what can I say? As a teenager I didn't go to church, um, so yeah, that would be miles away from something that I would have wanted to do. But yeah, I was invited out of the blue to uh Wimbledon Baptist Church um on a Friday night. Um one uh girl invited twenty of her friends. I was part of that group of twenty that used to go around together, and so we all were really surprised that she went to church, hadn't met anybody that went to church before our age. And we were really curious as to why she would want to go. Um it was a little bit surprising to find a teenager that wanted to go to church, but it was really surprising to find that she wanted to go. Okay, and so we couldn't get that, and partly because it's like a group decision, we just thought let's all go. Yes. So we did all turn up. Wow. Um kind of as a s out of solidarity to her and also out of this sort of security and numbers. So um that group of twenty whittled down within the space of about a month to about four, but I was one of the four that kept going. Okay. And so I basically learnt all about Christianity in the Bible um through through that.
SPEAKER_03Okay. And then to Durham University, would you say you were a Christian by the time you got to Durham?
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes, I was converted when I was sixteen, Glenn. And so uh yeah, then I had a year out in America, and then I arrived at Durham and had three years there, and then I became a journalist for nine years, and then I gave up my media work to work for a church as an evangelist, and I've been in church paid work um ever since. Okay, um, sometimes in different roles, sometimes as an elder, sometimes not as an elder in a church, sometimes paid by a group of churches called New Frontiers, sometimes paid by a local church. Um but yeah, doing the work of an evangelist in some way or other.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Tell me about life as a journalist and as a Christian. Um, were there opportunities to speak for Christ? And and now, as you look back, um do you do you feel that that that was a great preparation for what you're doing now?
SPEAKER_02I think that I learnt things when I was a sub-editor on national newspapers that have helped me in terms of writing. Um, so you know, I was trained as a journalist and that that training has helped me. Um I wrote I've written two novels, both of them evangelistic novels, and so um if my wife were here, she'd say that probably the most significant thing I've done in terms of making a difference would be those books. Yes, not actually the preaching which we've talked about. So certainly I think my training helped me to write those books. Yes, and um yeah, so uh yeah, I I had lots of opportunities um as a journalist to talk to my colleagues. Um I don't know if I had more or less than anybody else would have in their working life, but yeah.
SPEAKER_03And where were where did that decision come and why did you make that decision? Sort of nine years into being a journalist? Was it just this growing passion inside you, a deep sense of God's call? What what happened to make you jump into the full-time church work?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Glenn, it's a very long story and it would take up the whole of our time to tell you the story, but in a nutshell, yes, I did have a sense of call, I did feel that God called me, um, and that um I had a lot of wrestling. It took me about two years to finally make the decision to give up my journalistic work. Um yeah, so I think that I already felt clear that I wanted to preach the gospel, and whether I would have said I want to be an evangelist, I might actually have said that, I don't know. I can't remember exactly how I would have thought of it at the time, but I I certainly felt a sense of call, but I had a tremendous struggle in actually crossing the line and actually leaving my paid work as a journalist was a big deal. I was at I was working as a television presenter at the time, and it was a big thing for me. Um yeah, I struggled with that decision. But I often struggle with decisions, I'm not very good at making decisions. My wife, my wife would, if she'd say, Well, you know, no surprises, you're not very good at making decisions, and you take forever.
SPEAKER_03So but you did make that call, and that's it, that is a big call. Why an evangelist, why not a church pastor, a church planter, that kind of thing?
SPEAKER_02Well, I think that the reason is because when I first became a Christian, I just told people in fact, that's not really true. I didn't tell people about Jesus. People asked me when I first became a Christian, they did ask me, you know, what's going on? Why have you changed? Um, or invite them to church um and obviously that raised the subject you know why are you going to church let alone inviting me um so I suppose that's kind of what I did you know that was like my thing yeah that what was like to me that was what being a Christian was and I hadn't really thought beyond that it seemed to me that that was the first and most obvious thing to do seeing as I'd lived for many years not really knowing about Jesus the most obvious thing was to tell other people that were in the same boat as me so I just thought well that's like the most obvious first thing so I just kept doing that really yes um I mean people said to me you're an evangelist yeah and I thought well okay you know not sure that really makes any difference to anything just carry on um I've subsequently come to realise that obviously you could be an evangelist and possibly quite an effective evangelist somebody could be an evangelist somewhere but if you're in a church that's not evangelistic and you can't influence that church or the person that's leading it isn't really going in that direction that it could all become rather frustrating and your church isn't particularly effective. So um I do realise that you know it isn't just the case that God wants lots of evangelists going around preaching the gospel but God also wants church leaders building churches that are effective at reaching people and also discipling new converts.
SPEAKER_03Yes I was going to ask you about that and and how evangelism kind of mashes meh mashes meshes together with the ongoing life of local church. You're very much involved in New Frontiers. Yes that's right Glenn and they're a very kind of very evangelistic church planting movement so how do with your New Frontiers hat on or the you know thinking in those sorts of categories how do you how do you put together evangelism and the life of the local church on mission?
SPEAKER_02Yeah well I mean this is something that Terry Virgo um I mean if if if you were interviewing Terry Virgo he would say one of the reasons why New Frontiers came into existence was because he himself becoming a Christian from his background when he invited his friends and these were sort of jazz loving early 1960s young men living in Brighton Terry had become a Christian when he invited them to his church what they were struggling with or what even Terry was struggling with is this huge cultural barrier that this it was going into something which was just culturally so miles away from contemporary culture that it was really very difficult to imagine you know Terry found it hard to imagine his friends becoming part of the church and that was all part of the journey well what okay so what is the church and so New Frontiers was partly an attempt to say okay let's just imagine we had a blank piece of paper now let's read the Bible let's just read the New Testament and try and work out what the church looked like and then let's see if we can do it. Now I realize that everyone listening to this podcast might say that's how our church started our church started with us just trying to do the basics trying to do what the Bible says so yeah New Frontiers in the 1970s and 80s was a fairly radical new model of doing church seeking to follow what seems to be the New Testament pattern and you know people may disagree with this statement but yeah the New Testament pattern seems to be that the primary means of world evangelization is through church planting so the way that you reach the world for Christ is by planting new churches and so that's what New Frontiers was trying to do and is still trying to do although no longer under the one name of New Frontiers but under different names, different groups of churches.
SPEAKER_03So how do you as an evangelist sit in that kind of vision? Because um I mean there's all sorts of uh views on Ephesians 4 and what it means, you know those named leaders that Christ has ascended on high and he's given gifts to men it's the uh apostles and prophets and pastors teachers and evangelists just um to equip God's people for their works of service and some people might say oh the evangelists given that that's just such a church saturated context in Ephesians 4 is the evangelist simply a a pioneering church planting kind of a person or or can they in some ways be sort of taken out of the life of local church to to do their thing and then bring people into church?
SPEAKER_02I mean how do how do you sort of so I think we've probably seen both so I mean as you know Glenn there's not a lot of detail in the Bible about the evangelist there's Philip we know a bit about him. Yeah he was a breakthrough ministry in terms of healing and signs and wonders and gospel preaching and so we've tried to follow that model in terms of praying for the sick seeing breakthrough preaching the gospel and we don't know that Philip led a church we know that he was translocal we know that he ended up up in the North Caesarea he had four daughters who prophesied we don't know that he was a church leader but it's undoubtedly the case that if you get a church leader who is evangelistic or evangelism is one of his top gifts that that often will make the church evangelistic in the long run. And so yeah I'd say in recent years the trend has been in New Frontiers churches to seek to have people leading churches who are maybe they wouldn't say I'm an evangelist but one of the reasons why they were asked to lead the church is because they were a lot more evangelistic than the other guy. Yes. And that you know I think there's a sense that hey there's an awful lot of unreached people there's a lot of non-Christians we need to whatever our churches look like they need to be um contacting unbelievers and making a difference so I think you've got both I can certainly think of people who I'd say you're an evangelist and that person is the lead elder in their church I can think of another example who's definitely an evangelist and he said to me I wouldn't want the responsibility of leading a church but he's been employed by a church for more than 20 years he itinerates around somewhat he's an elder in the church and he's probably the most gifted evangelist I can think of in our group of churches but he would not he he I don't think he'd want to lead be the the the the the lead elder in his church.
SPEAKER_03So how do you in your context seek to raise up evangelists you know because it's interesting in that Ephesians 4 that those gifted those named gift gifts because they are the people themselves are the gifts to the church to equip God's people for their works of service so how do you seek to raise up more evangelists?
SPEAKER_02Yeah okay so for me there's lots of different things I've tried I'm not sure how which of them have been particularly effective but for many years I've ran a conference for evangelists so this was um it was called the Evangelist Summit so that was for people who were working as evangelists and others who kind of aspired to to that role or were sent you know they were sent by their church leader you should go to this type people and and so that was one way of doing it I think another way just in the local church is to encourage people to give them responsibility so if somebody is a leading an evangelistic lifestyle if you give that person the opportunity to lead a small group the chances are that group will become evangelistic which is different from thinking well you know this guy's just basically or this woman's just really a soul winner so we don't want to encumber her with leadership you know but if they can um lead at whatever level then often the group will become evangelistic and that's true of the church as well so yeah I do go into churches as a consultant sometimes people will say you know we need an Ephesians for evangelist now whether that's me or not I don't know but that's how they think of me let's get Adrian in and let's do a strategy day let's and a lot of it will be me talking about the lifestyle of the leadership team are they leading an evangelistic life so um I mean just to sort of wrap up here that's okay um one of the classic scenario would be look you know we're not growing this is all a bit disappointing we haven't grown for five years and so I might come in as like a consultant and I might say okay well why aren't you growing? Well one of the reasons we're not growing is because we're not people seeing people saved and added okay um and then just probing a bit asking well you know about your own non-Christian friends do you have non-Christian friends and if so how would you feel about inviting them along either to your church if your strategy is make a friend bring them to Sunday or let's imagine your strategy is alpha make a friend bring them to alpha how would you feel about doing that and if everybody in the room either doesn't have any friends or they have got non-Christian friends sometimes they've got lots of them but they no way they could invite them to your Sunday or your alpha or you've just you know mission accomplished you've already in that brief conversation hopefully demonstrated that there is probably a good reason why your church isn't growing that the people in your church that people are are going to follow the model they very occasionally take on a the church takes on a different model from the leadership but most of the time they will follow the model that's in front of them so if you are really excited about prophecy probably your church will be all excited about prophecy if you're really into healing then you're probably gonna find your church will be get get into healing but if really for you it's about neighbours family members um making friends with people that don't know Jesus and introducing them to Jesus probably in the end your church is going to look a lot more evangelistic. Yeah. Even if it's not as evangelistic as you are it'll probably head that way more people will leave.
SPEAKER_03Yes yeah so it's empowering those who are evangelists to to lead in certain areas and to challenge the leaders to be evangelistic in in in the way that they're good way of finishing oh there we go there's a neat summary for all those taking notes um brilliant thank you so much for for spending time appreciate it and uh we'll be praying for the convinced mission in November in Cardiff and then the uh the Carol services great opportunities but thanks so much Adrian thank you Glenn God bless so that's uh Adrian Holloway talking to you Glenn um a week or so ago carol service is uh a big opportunity yeah um I remember at Reading when I was at the CU there um we used to get about nine hundred people or so in the Great Hall.
SPEAKER_01Yes and it was the official University Carol service yeah yeah.
SPEAKER_03Guess who's doing the Reading University Carol Service this year? Glenn Scrivener Glen Scrivener This guy This guy so that's fun and I'm doing uh University of East Anglia so that'll be in um Norwich Cathedral I think um so yeah that's quite fun and um so there are lots of opportunities for these carol services um and it's helped me to think in local contexts um actually my next door neighbour will he I mean you know he came last year he'll come he will come to to these carol services and let's be thinking and and praying uh and bold enough to be inviting you know this Christmas it's such an opportunity and what you said about follow up you know have a good think about um following up and and how you're gonna do that and what's the best way and Yeah. I think if you have gotten them to a a church carol service then yeah I think I think invite them to another church service. I think I think that that works. But you might want to be thinking as well about you know how you just meet up with them and and uh maybe open the scriptures with them together or uh invite them to a Christianity explored or an alpha or that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So tell me about uh next week.
SPEAKER_03Who have we got next week next week we have uh the publishing giant that is Carl Lafferton uh speaking about his latest book written with uh Michael Dormandy called Tricky it's the hardest questions to ask about Christianity. Okay it's aimed more at the teen market but what I love about it is it's uh it just begins with Jesus. You know every question is well let's get back to who he is and see how our apologetics if you want to call it that unfolds uh in hopefully a very faithful and fruitful uh direction once you begin with Jesus. So we'll have him on the line and be good to talk to him.
SPEAKER_01Um so for the remembrance video for the links for this podcast episode just go to revivalmedia dot org slash TEP76 and uh get all the links there. It'd be really great to have your review as well. There'll be a link on that page to give leave us a rating and review. We'd be very uh happy. Put a big smile on Glenn's face if not mine. Never yours revivalmedia.org slash TEP76.
SPEAKER_03You said that with a smile on your face you should do that all the time. You should actually I I did I did a little bit of media training once and they yeah yeah you are meant to sort of you are meant to can you can you all tell that I'm speaking with a massive smile on my face.
SPEAKER_01Hello good morning.
SPEAKER_03It's a very cheesy smile yeah it looks a little anyway this podcast finished it's almost