On today's edition of the Evangelist Podcast, we talk to Peter Mead.
SPEAKER_00The Evangelist Podcast from Revival. Find out what's new in telling people the good news about God, the world, and you. With Andy Brinkley and Glenn Scrivener.
SPEAKER_02Welcome back to the Evangelist Podcast. I'm Andy Brinkley, and this, ladies and gentlemen, is the man himself, Mr. 321. Glenn Scrivener.
SPEAKER_03Have you been working on that? Yeah. I was rehearsing in my office. Okay.
SPEAKER_05Weighing 50 pounds! In the blue corner. In the corner.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_05Champion of the world.
SPEAKER_03Hello everyone.
SPEAKER_05You alright?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'm okay. I'm okay. What else have you got? What else have you working on, Andy? Nothing. I'm worried. Nothing.
SPEAKER_02So today we're going to hear an interview with Peter Mead. Yes. So who is Peter Mead?
SPEAKER_04Peter Mead is uh an all-round top banana, and he is uh the director of Cordeo, which is a great uh way of training for ministry. And uh we'll talk a little bit about Cordeo and training for ministry, and uh he's a very, very good preacher. Uh he's got biblicalpreaching.net is his website and uh all sorts of great wisdom about what is preaching, how you preach, how he goes about things, and and and various questions to do with heralding the Word of Christ. And he's also written a uh a great book called Please to Dwell, which sort of takes the theme of the incarnation and traces it throughout the whole Bible and see how God has always wanted to make his dwelling with us and uh those promises fulfilled in Christ.
SPEAKER_02Excellent. Um so Cordeo, what what is that an acronym or is it Latin or Latin, yes.
SPEAKER_04Um and uh and Peter will explain it to us um from the Latin. And there's some people listening into their podcast right now going, I know what it is! Oh it's it's totally this. Uh and well done to you. There is no prize this week.
SPEAKER_02Um there are other people like me.
SPEAKER_04There's no idea. And then the rest of us we we have no idea. But um yes, all will be revealed.
SPEAKER_02Right. Excellent. Okay, well, without further ado, then let's let's hear. Bring him on.
SPEAKER_04Well, it's great to have uh Peter Mead on the line, all the way from Chippenham. Hello, Peter.
SPEAKER_01Hey Glenn, how are you?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, not too bad. What's the weather like in Chippenham?
SPEAKER_01Well, it's sunny today, actually. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's always sunny in Chippenham. It's always kind of it's a secret people don't know.
SPEAKER_04Ah, it's not as sunny as in Eastbourne. Eastbourne is officially the Sunshine Coast, and there's there's more daylight hours in Eastbourne than anywhere else on mainland UK.
SPEAKER_01That's amazing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. I live to you know serve people with these kinds of trivial facts. It's uh it's a gifting of mine. It's uh Brilliant. So it's uh I'm talking to you on a Monday morning just after church. Um tell me what tell me what's happened at church, Peter.
SPEAKER_01Well, we don't uh have church on a Monday morning. Um but uh I suppose yesterday was church, yeah. So what's happened at church? We had a good day at church. We were uh we were in a series looking at uh things that uh what was the title we're using? It's uh not what you think it is. Uh here's what the Bible says, or you know, you you think you know what it means to be human, but here's what the Bible says. So we're we're in that series and uh it's going very well.
SPEAKER_04Turning people's visions sort of upside down and right side up and that sort of thing. Yeah, hopefully. And beginning with God, is that the that's the first thing that we need to go right? And then Absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think it's it's uh it's one of those series I'm convinced actually that a lot of uh a lot of series can be very series or messages can be very effective for both Christian and non-Christian audiences. You know, I I I think sometimes we've or I grew up in that kind of uh this is believers service and this is an evangelistic service, you know, very, very distinct and separate.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01Um and I I think actually we kind of a lot of the time that it's it's church people that need the the gospel, yeah, you know, evangelizing and it's uh uh and the the world kind of coming in from the outside doesn't hurt them to get a sense of what it's like on the inside, you know what I mean? So I I think uh it's one of those series that can be really valuable for for everyone. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04That's interesting. I mean Mike Reeves uh I was speaking to Mike uh in last week's episode, and he was sort of saying the same stuff that actually with Christians all he really talks about is who is God isn't and what is salvation, but it all it all seems like news to Christians.
SPEAKER_01It is scary how newsy it can feel, yeah.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, we're always evangelizing because we're always preaching the gospel to ourselves, and uh yeah, and if non-Christians come in and hear, all the better. Brilliant. Exactly, absolutely. So you've written uh a wonderful book called Please to Dwell, a Biblical Introduction to the Incarnation. And uh we'll talk about this in just a second, but I also want to um talk to you about um what you do kind of uh as a day job in addition to um leading this church plant in Chippenham. Uh you're also the director of um is it director of uh Cordeo?
SPEAKER_01I think so. Yes, let's call it. We tend to use the word mentor for the the leadership team of Cordeo, but that's I I I'll take any title you give me.
SPEAKER_04Alright, alright. The czar of the grand poobah of of Cordeo. Now uh I I actually did a year of Latin um back in my school days, but I uh c can you explain what Cordeo is?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, yeah. Cordeo uh means uh a heart for God. Yes. And uh what it is is uh um it's it's kind of a cross between a sort of a Bible school with a ministry team, with a um an internship program, I suppose is it's the combination. So it's uh a small group of people. Uh we we have a full-time course, and uh the full-time course runs for six months, and it's restricted, really small group that join a small group of mentors, and uh we study together, um try to do some ministry together, and uh hopefully grow together in the process of doing that. So it's it's a really uh kind of a round-a-table, small, intense study environment. Yes, uh real emphasis on relationships, uh on uh getting to know God for who he really is and and growing in that. So yeah.
SPEAKER_04There's quite a bit of preparatory reading before people come, is that right? And then there's sort of what five, six months together, four, five months together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's right. I wouldn't I wouldn't want the pre-reading to sound too scary. It's not sure it's not too bad. Um but yeah, six months, uh just under six months together, and uh we meet together uh three days a week, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Uh so it's it's very much a full-time uh program and deliberately small because uh we just feel like it would be kind of missing the point to end up in sitting in rows and disseminating information when really what we want to be doing is having the conversation together and wrestling with Bible texts or wrestling with uh doctrine in the context of church history or wrestling with how do we apply this in in the life of the church or in evangelism or in personal spirituality or or whatever. So it's a a deliberately small group, and uh yeah, it seems to work really, really well.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and you've resisted compartmentalizing things, as you say, in sort of you don't have a biblical studies section and then a doctrine section and a pastoral section, or if you do, that they they kind of blend and merge into one another in in in very fruitful ways, I think.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean we we definitely have uh some structure to what we're doing, it's not six months of chit-chat. Um but uh yeah, well one of the things that we decided early on was um actually right at the start, was let's have the mentors co-teach. And so uh if if we're at the core of what we're doing, if our relationship with each other is healthy and we're esteeming and you know, kind of affirming and believing in one another, then it makes sense really to have the teaching done together. And so there'll be areas where one of us is stronger than the other, and therefore the the person whose area it is will take the lead, but the other person has a lot to offer. We can chip in, we can converse, we can ask questions, we can clarify, and it just helps to create an atmosphere, hopefully, within the the study room that that means that everyone else is is doing that as well. So it's genuinely uh it's a group of people who know each other and uh studying in that form just so much better than you know in some places I've I've been in situations where you're sitting there and the person's there lecturing but they could be on a screen. Yes, you know, it really doesn't make that much difference. Whereas uh in Cordeo i the way we work, you wouldn't really want it to be on a screen. It's much more much more interactive than that.
SPEAKER_04Not that you're not very, very good looking people, you are, but yes, yeah. I think you want that interaction as well. I've been a fan of Cordeo for for many years, and I and I think more from uh a distance, I got sort of your distinctives as sort of being very Trinitarian and you are, and being um very concerned for the heart of God and for for the heart of believers, and having that sort of heart-to-heart connection with God, um and also that sort of life-on-life discipleship stuff that you're talking about. You're able to spend a lot of a lot of time with with the guys who come. But I think one one distinctive that really struck me uh as I've come and and done things at at Cordeo has been just how very, very Bible saturated you guys are. And uh and you know, I I speak at a lot of different sort of uh Bible training institutes, and I've been to a couple myself, but I don't know anywhere else that spends as much time um rejoicing in the scriptures and spending time in the scriptures. I think that's been that's been wonderful for me to see. I I take it that that's that's very deliberate, yeah. Very deliberate on your heart to do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I obviously I can't comment about other places that you've been, but I mean that for us it it's very much a a case of i we don't want to simply have an interactive you know good content kind of discussion with with some capable instructors in the room, but ignore God, you know, which i you know you could very easily do. We could spend a lot of time wrestling with theology and wrestling with this theory or that theory, but really what we want is for God to be as active a participant as possible. And so I think um having the Bible open and and really really pursuing him, you know, rather than just saying, well, you you know, you know the story of such and such in you know Luke 15. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we know that. Okay, let's talk about something else. You know, we we'd rather go through it and and allow it to jump out at us. And I think for participants in the full-time course, uh one of the things we say to them is look, you're probably never going to have this again. Six months where you're not doing other stuff, where you're able to really uh drill down and focus down on what you're doing here, this is quite a privilege. So let's uh let's make sure that the Bible is is really the key key feature of that. And if you forget all the details and all the learning and all the other stuff, if you go away with an appetite for the Bible that you didn't have before, uh, you know, just in terms of it being increased and enriched, then that's gonna be that that's gonna pay dividends for the rest of your life. So that's really a deliberate thing on on our part. That we we really do want to be as biblically saturated and marinated and pickled as we can be.
SPEAKER_04Brilliant. So who who is Cordeo for?
SPEAKER_01Well, uh the at the moment what what we do is we've got this full-time course that runs for six months. We've also do uh one-week intensive, so we do several of those per year, and and the intensives are really open to anyone. Um so it could be an 18-year-old, it could be a 78-year-old, it just doesn't matter. Taking a week and joining a group is quite easy, relatively easy for everyone. The full-time course um is a bit more specific in the sense that because it's highly relational, we're we're very much um connecting as a as a small group. We we've kind of restricted that slightly um to a number of of six. We have just men at this point, we don't have the the capacity to be able to run uh a ladies' version, if you if you see what I mean, in terms of just the relational uh dynamic that would be needed. Uh, we we need to get some uh female mentors to be able to run that. And so what we're looking for really is is people who are really eager and keen to get their noses into their Bibles. That's kind of the primary thing, and then also the kind of people who want to then give it away to others. So it could be someone that's uh looking at going to formal theological training. We love to get people for six months first, give them a bit of an orientation uh to that so they can go on and thrive in uh in that realm, which isn't always a place where people thrive. Um, so pre-theological training, um, people who are already in ministry who are taking a sabbatical uh or taking a break within within that. We've had people that have come to the course either from the mission field or as pastor uh of a church, that kind of thing. Or people that are um how can I put it? People with a real job, people with a normal job who just want to be um that they would just want to say, okay, let's take six months and I want to really give myself to this so that I then have more to give to others in my local church. So it may be that after the six months they go back into uh normal workplace and and so on, but within the church context, they're so much more enriched, have so much more to give. Um, so yeah, those are the kind of people we're we're sort of touched with with our um with the program, and and we really do get a diversity within that. We have younger folks who are kind of coming out of university and trying to figure out what to do with their lives, and slightly older people who know exactly what they're trying to do with their lives. Uh, and and it's just amazing every year seeing how the group comes together and then connect with each other and uh grow through the process of of you know the six months of training, but also just the six months of fellowship with each other. Yes, brilliant.
SPEAKER_04Well, I I heartily recommend um Corday, well, appropriately enough. Um so we'll we'll put some links um on the show notes so that people can uh can get in touch and find out more uh about that. Um but you've also come out with uh this book, Please to Dwell, a Biblical Introduction to the Incarnation published by Christian Focus. Um where has the book come from?
SPEAKER_01Where has it come from? Well, initially, um I I think it was birthed as an idea when I was preaching through the the Christmas type series. Um the the Matthew 1 and 2, the Luke 1 and 2, uh classic infancy narratives, and preaching through those, and I I I kind of summarized um my messages a bit and pulled them together in tight summaries for my own purposes, and then was looking at that and thinking a couple of things. One, actually, the it this is really maybe useful material with a little bit of work, this could be useful as it stands. And secondly, there's a lot more in the Bible than just these four chapters that speak about the incarnation. And so I started thinking beyond Christmas and outside of the kind of the carol service realm, um there's a lot to be said, a lot to be chased biblically, and this is a thrilling chase as well. It's not just like a you know, I'm gonna take a random theme and chase it through the Bible. This is this is kind of the core of it, this is the heart of what's going on. We've got a God who wants to dwell with us and sends his son who you know becomes uh one of us. Uh just an amazing reality that distinguishes Christianity from from all other religions, you know. And um I thought, well, actually, let me let me chase this a bit. So that's where the the book was birthed, was starting with those infancy narratives, but then going from that and out, you know, so it's backwards into the Old Testament and out into the epistles and and so on. So yeah.
SPEAKER_04Well, I've already been uh blessed by this book, read it, loved it, and then uh happened to be preaching on Luke chapter one last night, and uh and went to your book for help, and sure enough, it it it was very, very helpful. You've got a a lovely kind of deft touch in in showing us the the the richness of what's there. And then another thing that I've I've loved about this book is the sort of first fifty pages, um, you give this this really clear, helpful, Jesus-centered, promise-centered introduction to the to the Old Testament. And I I would actually give this to people um as as an introduction to the scriptures, uh, not just an introduction to sort of incarnation and Christmassy themes. Um what did you learn as you as you were doing that first section um going through the Old Testament stuff?
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, to me it's it was such a a fun thing to to chase that and to to really try to condense it down because, like you said, 50 pages is hardly uh a summary or a a complete um chase through the Old Testament. But I think when when we do go to the New Testament, there's so much more familiar to us, there's so much assumed knowledge there that I think of a first century Jew in the in the synagogue hearing some of the things that were being taught, they would know, they would they would have that awareness of of the Old Testament, like I would know the town where I grew up. It was just familiar to them. Whereas for us, it's not really that way. We tend to kind of poke around in there trying to find something positive or helpful. Um, but we we maybe miss what's actually going on. And and so uh yeah, I think for me that the the thrill of that chase through the Old Testament and pulling that together was just the sense of um the kind of God that we have, like we were saying earlier in terms of the gospel, that the the core issue is what kind of God is our God, and and the God that's revealed in the Old Testament isn't this caricature of an angry, just out to destroy everyone kind of a God. There are obviously aspects of God's wrath and so on that are critical to understand and understand in their context, but but the bigger picture is we've got a God who created in the beginning and created everything good and created humanity in in his own image as the pinnacle of that creation, and then that got spoiled. And one of the things I really enjoy chasing in that early part of the book is kind of what would you do? You know, the the sort of a it's like a recurring theme uh going through there. If if we were to treat um history, the whole of history as a choose your own adventure. I don't know if you remember those books.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um they they were quite bizarre in some ways, but uh if if if it was a choose your own adventure and I said, Okay, I'm gonna do this and I'm God, what would I do? Yeah, just constantly. You see the sin and the failure and the rebellion and the rejection and the spiritual adultery, and I know exactly what I would do, and it's exactly what he didn't.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so as you go through that, you see the hardness of humanity toward God, and yet when you think, Oh, that can't get any worse, it's not just that God doesn't obliterate them as if he's some sort of patient, uh slightly passive being, but he proactively moves toward them, and he proactively moves toward them both in terms of promise, uh, and he keeps developing his promise plan, you could put it that way, uh, through the Old Testament. But he also moves towards them in terms of his presence, uh being in their midst and giving them a person who they can trust. And so it's not just a good promise, but a person uh whose promise is trustworthy. And so you know, go on.
SPEAKER_04No, I really I really I really appreciate that that aspect of it. I think you can have sort of Bible overviews that sort of talk about the plan of salvation in quite an abstract way. Or you can have overviews that that talk about promises developing, and that's obviously uh better than than simply an abstract plan, but but you were keen not simply to say the plan with the promise, but also the the presence of the promiser. Um why why was that uh kind of an emphasis that you wanted to make?
SPEAKER_01Well uh simply because it's there, I think. But uh I I think it's important because uh I thinking, for example, of John 5, where where Jesus is talking with the the leaders, uh spiritual leaders of the nation, spiritual in quotes, and uh and he's challenging them because they're going after him, they're they're ramping up to want to kill him for for blasphemy and for uh what he says about his father back in about verse 18 of John 5. But near the end, where he's really turning uh from being on the defensive to attacking them, turning the whole thing around, he says to them, You search the scriptures daily because you think that in them you will find life. And yet you're missing the point. And and what I think he's going after with them is something that we're so capable, I know I'm so capable of falling into, and that is that uh come to the Bible and and open it up and look for something for me. You know, how can I be a better me? How can I be more successful? How can I be more godly? How can I be a better husband? Whatever uh particular itch I want to scratch. And so it's very easy to come at it and and just kind of be looking for tips, and the Bible is the manual for life kind of approach, and yet Jesus is critiquing that. And and so I get that, and I I get that critique, and I get that the point of that no, you're right, I shouldn't just be selfishly looking for suggestions on how to live, but the Bible's about something more than that. But I think what a lot of us in in the evangelical world uh tend to do is is take that and go, okay, let me look for the promise. And we look for the promise, but Jesus didn't say look for the promise. He said the scriptures are speaking of me.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01And and so the the reason I emphasise that or want to uh bring that out a bit is because uh again, I think just going after the promise actually doesn't really satisfy, it doesn't fully address the issue. So I think in the book I even gave a sort of a passing illustration of the importance of who it is that makes the promise.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So let's say I've got a my next door neighbor, I'm going away on holiday, and my neighbor says, I'll look after your car while you're gone.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, I'll I'll keep the engine warm, make sure the battery doesn't die, that kind of thing. That's a very kind promise. I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But it depends who he is.
SPEAKER_04Totally.
SPEAKER_01You know, if if if he's just got out of prison for car crimes and you know, joy riding and theft and so on, I probably won't hand over the keys to my pastor.
SPEAKER_04You might want to help him not to stumble in that area for his sake.
SPEAKER_01If I've got a Ferrari or something, I'm definitely not going to give him my keys. And so that the the person who's making the promise is so critical, and yet I think in in the church in our you know, in Christianity, we just tend to have this whole set of assumptions that oh yeah, yeah, we we know who God is. Now what is he saying? You know, and then that's a that's better than where can I get some tips. But but what is he saying isn't the whole picture, it's okay, who is he, and therefore can I trust what he's saying.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01And and so that's where you know I wanted to chase that a little bit in the old testament, just setting up because it's not that suddenly we get to the blank page after Malachi and God had a bright idea, let's send Jesus, because everything else hasn't worked. Yeah, it's it's been God's the inclination of his heart all the way through is to to move toward us and to to uh put footprints down next to ours. And so that's you know, that's part of that Old Testament uh intro to the book that you're describing.
SPEAKER_04Well Calvin said that um Christ in both testaments comes to us clothed in his promises, um, which is interesting. You know, it's it you know, we don't have a naked Christ who just comes to us and we just trust the person, you know, he comes to us promising things, but neither do we trust in a set of clothes. You know, uh it's it's Christ clothed in those promises. So yeah, and I was really, really blessed by your book in in that regard. And and I'm very blessed by your book as I look forward to Christmas and think about all the very many carols talks I've got to give, and uh and I'm sure I'll be set many more Matthew one and and Luke 1 kind of sermons as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I hope it's helpful. I mean, I I do basically the way the book is organized is I I spend the first quarter uh looking at the Old Testament as a whole, so that's big, big grand to cover, but then the next uh two quarters of the middle half really are those two passages, Matthew 1, 2, Luke 1, 2. Uh it's just a real for me a delight to go through those in detail. And then after that, the final quarter is the rest of the New Testament, some key passages. So it's sort of whole Bible with with a real focus for those Christmas carol service ideas.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, it's fantastic, and you know, and it's not just for preachers to read. Um it's absolutely I think every preacher should should get one of these. It'll it'll very much help you, uh, especially with your Christmas preparation, but it's not just for for preachers to read. You have such a deaf touch in in moving through these passages and warming our hearts. Uh what what is your hope for this book? What do you want this book to do to people? Well, it's funny.
SPEAKER_01I suppose at this time of year, as it's being released in September, I have to talk about how it's not just for Christmas, and then give me two months and I'll be saying this is just for Christmas.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um but really it's it's it's neither one. What what do I want it to do? I I want it to um I want it two things really. The obvious thing, and and probably this is the ultimate goal, is I want people to enjoy and appreciate and love Jesus more. And just um just uh joining many, many other books that probably have exactly the same goal. It it's that trying to get people to think through. So I one of the things I didn't do in the book was say, okay, let's have a section tracing the Christological heresies, you know, down through the years. Really important stuff, and and it it's something that definitely people do need to know about, but but my goal was really to make it a biblical introduction to the incarnation. So um I hope that when people read the book that they will find themselves appreciating, loving, and celebrating and praying to Jesus more than maybe they did before they read the book. That would be great, that's the ultimate goal. Uh, and I I suppose as kind of a sub goal or as a goal along the way, if there's such a thing, is that I want people to really want to put the book down and pick up their Bible. Because uh, you know, I just hear so much uh people struggling and striving and uh finding the Bible reading really challenging, and I go, hang on a minute, it's really good stuff. And so I I hope that uh as people read it, they will say, Oh, hang on, let me let me go chase that, let me go read that. And and so, um, as much as I'd like people to finish the book, I'd much rather they kind of have to keep coming back to it because they keep getting distracted by the Bible along the way.
SPEAKER_04Well, let's I mean let's talk about that in our next um interview, because we'll we'll stretch this over a couple of episodes, I think. I'd love to talk to you a little bit more about um preaching and the place of church. But perhaps perhaps for even now, maybe maybe my last question to you will be why do people struggle with reading their Bibles? What's what's going on why do I struggle with reading my Bible? What's going on there?
SPEAKER_01It's a good question. I think there's probably multiple answers. Let me try and give them briefly. One is that we've never been given permission to enjoy the Bible. So when people uh start coming to church or become a Christian or whatever, you know, their their particular story is you you tend to get other well-meaning Christians telling them you're gonna find this really hard, but force yourself through a verse a day, you know, and it's it's presented like cauliflower or something. Yes. Hold your nose, and yeah, yeah, force it down, and and then you'll be spiritual. And and so that's problematic because it just creates this general assumption that it's not really a positive thing. Um, combine that with the fact that because people treat it like a overcooked vegetable, um, therefore they only ever go for the tiniest bite-sized portions. Uh, and so you you know you'll have uh well-meaning plans laid out where it sort of tick this box once you've managed to force yourself through these three lines or whatever, I'm being facetious, but you know what I mean. Really, really short, and I understand the benefit of that, but I also see the real problem. What you know, when you you start, if you if you take a longer chunk and you just start reading and enjoy it, you don't want to put it down. Uh and I I think it probably takes most people 10, 12 minutes, 15 minutes of reading through uh a Bible narrative, say a Bible story, before they're really in the zone and they're really enjoying it. And most people never even get that far because but if they get to 10 minutes, they've done enough to tick the box off for the day.
SPEAKER_04Which is not the way I read your book. I mean, I you know I didn't read two pages and put it down and say, Exactly. So, yeah, why do we do this with the Bible? Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yes. I I wrote a actually I'll finish with this, but I wrote a blog post a couple of years ago that stirred some pretty strong reactions, but I I I kind of critiqued that idea of of chopping and doing little bits. And and and a a guy wrote to me uh on there and he said, I've been leading uh leading a leadership training program, and the men in this program have just completed a three-year Bible read-through. And I'm you know, I was celebrating that, and I was thinking, okay, well, I I get that you know different people have different reading abilities and so on. I you know, I totally get that. And I'm a big fan of audio, Bible, and just listen, you know, whatever. It doesn't, you know, reading's not the key. But um, I thought, hang on a minute, it takes 70 hours to listen to the Bible being read at an incredibly slow pace on a CD. And these guys have taken three years, that's an average of about three minutes a day, and they're now leaders. Yeah, do you see what I mean? I I just thought that that doesn't thrill me with anticipation for what they're gonna offer. And so so yeah, I I think that's a big part of why people don't or why people struggle is we we present it as a negative, we encourage people to read it in in chunks so small that they can't get into it. Um and to be honest, we're in a fallen world, so our you know, there's all sorts of things that are more attractive to my flesh than hearing from God, uh and there's spiritual warfare. The enemy would love to keep us from it. So there's probably more too, but I think those are some of the reasons.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Well, and I yeah, I I think your book, Please to Dwell, will help with that. Yeah, getting people to see that there are promises, but also a promiser to be encountered in the scriptures who wants to dwell with us and be with us and bless us. Um maybe not Yeah, so why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you? Dive in. Brilliant. Well, we'll leave it there, Peter, and we'll uh we'll pick it up again with you as we we talk about uh preaching a particular gifting and passion of yours uh in the next episode. But um thank you so much for spending some time with us uh on this episode. My pleasure, thank you. Brilliant. We'll speak again. God bless.
SPEAKER_02By that was uh Peter Mead talking to Glenn earlier. Really good chap, he sounds uh Peter.
SPEAKER_04He is. As I say, he is a top banana, and um no, got a lot of time for Peter Mead, and um we kept on like speaking so much that I thought we'd we should uh drop it into two. And so uh in uh in the other interview that I do with Peter, we we're gonna talk about preaching, a real passion and gifting of his. Um we're gonna talk about uh evangelism more generally, we're gonna talk about church planting i a as a way of fulfilling the Great Commission. And uh and also about uh Bible reading, personal Bible reading. Um that was uh unexpectedly sort of asked him about Bible reading and and that sort of was the thing that really struck me but between the eyes, really. So yeah, stay tuned for for part two.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Okay, excellent. Now uh this time we're gonna do the same giveaway that we did last session. Yes. Which is uh when we spoke to Mike Reeves. He was recommending five books, and uh these were um sort of classics from church uh history. We thought that they would be a good introduction to to these people. Uh the five books are On the Incarnation by Athanasius.
SPEAKER_05Great book.
SPEAKER_02With an intro by C. S. Lewis, Freedom of a Christian by Martin Luther. Wonderful book. Table Talk by Martin Luther.
SPEAKER_03A lot of fun.
SPEAKER_02And The Bruised Reed by Richard Sibbs. Oh, tasty read. Christ's Glorious Achievements. Haven't read it. By Charles Virgin.
SPEAKER_04But I'm sure it's wonderful.
SPEAKER_02And Mike's own book, which is Christ Our Life.
SPEAKER_04Our Life. Which is fantastic. Really, really great read. So I mean, this is this is a sensational bundle.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. So if you're interested in getting hold of this complete collection of books, or you can have them as Kindle books if you want, uh sign up to our Evangelist Podcast by entering your email on the web address I'll give you in a moment. And one person will be s randomly selected to receive the book bundle.
SPEAKER_04And everyone will get to hear about the Evangelist Podcast. Yes. And will be reminded that it's out in the week. Who wouldn't want to do that?
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04The Evangelist Podcast is is its own reward, wouldn't you say, Andy?
SPEAKER_02Oh yes.
SPEAKER_04But the six books help.
SPEAKER_02So the web address to go to is revivalmedia.org slash TEP70. Enter your email, confirm it, and one predestined winner. One Robert Duncil winner. What we get in the bundle. The Lord's hands. Now the con contest is open till the last day of September, which is uh coming Tuesday. Okay. So unless you're listening for this. Years later. Yes.
SPEAKER_04Because you've got sixty-nine other episodes to catch up on. If this is your first, it might might be a while.
SPEAKER_02You can do that in a week. That's true. Uh you can even do this on your phone. Just go to revivalmedia.org slash TEP70. Okay, that's it. Thanks very much for listening, and see you next week. See you next time.