On this episode of the Evangelist Podcast, we're thinking about how to give an evangelistic talk. The Evangelist Podcast from Revival. Find out what's new in telling people the good news about God, the world, and you. With Andy Brinkley and Glenn Scrivener.
SPEAKER_03Hello again and welcome back to the Evangelist Podcast. This is the show where we encourage you in your witness to your friends, your family, and even complete strangers. Last time we were talking about how to prepare for an evangelistic talk, Glenn, and this time we're going to look at how to actually give an evangelistic talk. So sort of like the actual delivery.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, what goes on in the pulpit or with the Bible in hand as you address your youth group or in whatever context that you are speaking evangelistically.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Before we get onto that, I just want to tell you about a valuable resource. It's called the International Daily Prayer Bulletin. It's a small twenty-four-page booklet that tells thirty-one stories of what God is doing around the world. It has stories about the Chinese church and how that's growing, how a convict became a missionary in India, and how a Muslim seeks Allah but finds Christ. We can find more about it in our prayer bulletin. You can get it free of charge by going to revivalmedia.org slash bulletin. So we're looking again at uh how to give an evangelistic talk. And Glenn, you've been very bold and prepared ten commandments.
SPEAKER_02Ten commandments, absolutely. Can you tell I get a bit angry at points? Thou shalt, thou shalt not. Um Yes, this is is a slightly tongue-in-cheek, but the these are ten points that I think you need to bear in mind as you give a talk. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03What have you got first then uh thou shalt worship Christ from the pulpit?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I think this goes as a heading over every other one, really. What we're up to in preaching is worshiping Christ, actually. And I and I think it's a part of worship. And that's particularly obvious if it's a Sunday sermon we're talking about, but this is a part of the worship experience in which Paul says in Romans chapter 15, verse 16, he said he has the priestly task of declaring the gospel of God. Priestly task. And of course, because it's priestly, there is a twofold direction in terms of yes, he is declaring out from God this word of gospel grace. But there's also an an aspect in which the preacher is not y he's not just standing uh before a congregation to declare the truth, but standing before the Lord to worship him, and I think there needs to be that sense of that. I I was at the same church as uh Michael Bourne, who was Bishop of Chester for many years, he was also the rector of All Souls Lay and Place for many years, and he was an amazing preacher for actually literally worshiping Christ in the pulpit, and and you would just see him every now and again just get excited about Jesus, and he would sort of lean back a little bit and close his eyes and he would sort of shake his two fists, not in an angry way, but in in just a sense of this is true and this is Jesus, and it was just this wonderful, wonderful sense of worshiping Jesus in in in that moment. So it as you seek to try to worship Christ from the pulpit, I'm not saying try to break out in song or something. Break out in song. Or try to pretend to be Michael Bourne, or try to pretend to be John Piper, or try to pretend to be Spurgeon. It's not about putting on airs, but it it is about knowing what you're about and to a degree enjoying it, enjoying declaring the word of Christ and being involved in that priestly ac activity.
SPEAKER_03Okay then. Uh number two, thou shalt communicate through both content and style a tangible sense of the newness of God's revelation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's a that's a mouthful, isn't it? Uh but it's all about the newness of God's revelation. I am so tired of preachers getting up in the pulpit and saying, Yes, but of course we all know we all know, don't we, that blah blah blah blah. And and of course, I'm sure you're all aware that blah blah blah and think, no, no, we don't know. We need you to tell us, and we need you to tell us again. And I know you told us these things last week, but we forget. And the point of preaching is that every Sunday it needs to come to us fresh. And and we need to be told these things, and it needs to be told with a sense of eager, childlike enthusiasm. You know, so often I th I think of preaching as as like a a drill sergeant just going through the things that their soldiers need to do. You all know that you need to do this, you all know you need to do that, you all need to do know you need to do this. As opposed to we're meant to be heralds of good news. Newsgivers, okay? And and you know, George Alagaia on BBC One, when it comes to the six o'clock news, does not deliver these things as though um I'm sure you all know, because you've all been following this story on on Twitter. And everyone has been following the story on Twitter, you know. BBC One is the last, you know, sort of channel of news that you're gonna get this story in. But they don't tell it as though yes, of course you've always heard this before, haven't you? There really needs to be sense that that tangible sense of of the newness of God's revelation and and often overestimate people's knowledge and underestimate their intelligence. We overestimate their knowledge all the time and and assume that people know what happens to the Israelites in the wilderness for 40 years. We we assume that people know this. They they don't know this. We we overestimate their knowledge, we underestimate their intelligence, and I think the way to honour both those truths is to come again and and just to say, I need to tell you these things fresh with enthusiasm as heralds of news, because that's what we are.
SPEAKER_03Okay, Glenn, but how do you make that difference from having the newness of that without repeating yourself all the time?
SPEAKER_02I think you just need always to be avoiding monotony. And the way to do that is not to fake it in the pulpit, but the way to do it is in your preparation, keep praying over a passage until it is the best news you've heard all week. And and I've always I've always loved sort of preparing new passages for preaching, and it almost every week I get a new favourite chapter of the Bible, and it's the chapter that I'm working on, and I I think we just need to pray for that that genuine enthusiasm. So it's it's sort of a newness really in you rather than anything else. Yeah, yeah. Pray for that freshness and for it to come across freshly.
SPEAKER_03Okay, uh commandment three, thy tone shall be declarative and devotional.
SPEAKER_02Thy tone shall be declarative and devotional. I think you need these two things from the preacher. You need them to be thoroughly convinced this is true, and they need to be thoroughly convinced that this is for you. For you in all your sin and suffering. That it is declarative that you are saying, Thus saith the Lord. And let me tell you what you don't already know. Let me tell you this truth. Jesus loves you. Jesus came down into the pit of hell for you. Jesus took the hell that you deserve unto himself on the cross, and he rose up again in glory, and he is offering himself to you. Let me declare that to you, and as I declare that to you, hopefully it's a devotional truth. We were reading yesterday in in staff prayers, John chapter one, verse fourteen. Jesus is full of grace and truth. Now Jesus is full of grace and truth, and if he's the word of God, then what should our preaching be full of? Full of grace and truth. Grace, it's devotional, uh aimed at the heart, but also truth. That it's it's declarative and it's just that sense of let me tell you what you don't already know. You've forgotten it this week. I know you've forgotten it. That Jesus is for you, he loves you, he went to hell and back for you. I think that's the tone that we should strike.
SPEAKER_03Okay, comment. For thy method shall be expositional. Expositional. Yes. So expositional. What does that mean?
SPEAKER_02I guess what you're wanting to do is expose the text and let it be seen for what it really is. We really should be plain in our dealings with the Bible, and just opening up the scriptures and not trying to twist things, not trying to hide things or obscure things, but to try to expose what the Bible says in the way that the Bible says it. That doesn't necessarily commit you to going verse by verse, you know, verse 3 and then verse 4 and then verse 5 and then verse 6. That that might not be the best way to actually expose the the true meaning of that passage. You might want to do the the second paragraph first and the first paragraph second. You meant that that that might be the way to expose the meaning of it, but in all that you do, you want to be enabling people to do what the Bereans did in Acts chapter 17. In Acts chapter 17, verses 10 and 11. You've got the Bereans who are listening to Paul speak, and they've got their Bibles, and they're able to check Paul against Scripture, and they want to see if the things that Paul says are true, and we need to have a transparent method to our preaching so that people are able to do that and hold us to account. Is this really what the Bible says? And we need to be plain about yes, this is what the Bible is saying.
SPEAKER_03And that needs to be sort of above things that we perhaps might have a tendency or temptation to read into the text. Yeah. I've got something I want to say, so here's a scripture, and uh it fits quite well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, exactly. Let the Bible set the agenda for the talk, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Yep. So five, thy goal shalt be Christ.
SPEAKER_02Yes. So if our method is expositional, our goal is Christ. And and what I mean by that is actually my job as I'm preaching is not so much to preach Luke chapter 14. That's not my goal. My goal is to preach Christ from Luke chapter 14. And there's quite a bit of difference between those two things. If I just think my job is to preach the passage, and I start in verse 15 and I end in verse 24, and when I'm done, I'm done. Actually, I can do that in a non-Christian way. I can do that unchristianly, if I don't actually spotlight Christ and offer Christ to people. So it's very, very important that we don't just preach the passage, we preach Christ from the passage. In John chapter 5, Jesus is surrounded by a whole bunch of Bible scholars who diligently study the scriptures, thinking that in the scriptures there is eternal life, and Jesus says, No, eternal life is not in the Bible. Jesus says in John chapter 5, verse 39, these are the scriptures that testify to me. You've got to come to me to have life. And so that's that's a really a word for preachers. We don't just give people the passage, and you know, we start in verse one and we finish in verse eight, and then we go home for a week. Through verses one to eight, we offer people Christ and and show off Christ and say Christ is for you. That's the goal of preaching.
SPEAKER_03Okay, then uh commandment six, thy fevered entreaty shall not be due as so much as look.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03What are you going on?
SPEAKER_02What am I going on about? I'm trying I'm trying to be clever and use old King Jamesy language. Um thy fevered entreaty shall not be due so much as look. So it's it's it's the point of the sermon is not to give people things to do, as much as it is to show people Christ, so that they look at him. Because that's what faith is. Faith is looking away from myself and all my own abilities and looking to Jesus and saying, Ah, there is the Lamb of God who takes away my sin. There is the one I will trust, and we look to him. And so preaching is all about saying, Look, look, look, not so much about saying do do do. And I often give the illustration of um communion. So however you take the Lord's Supper or communion in your church, whether you go up to the front and get a bit of bread and wine, or whether you sit in your chair and get a bit of bread and grape juice or whatever, however it is that you you do that, what you never want to happen as you're as you're taking communion is you never want someone to press into your hands instead of bread, instead of bread, imagine they press into your hands a to-do list. They just put a post-it note into your palm and it's got six things you need to do this week. Oh, thanks. Alright, well I'll try, I'll give it a go this week. Like we would never do that, like in a communion service, but so often preaching can be like that. Instead of the preacher handing over Christ and saying he's for you. Do you want him? He's yours if you'll have him, he will walk through this week with you. He was given for you on the cross to die for all your sins, to rise up again, give you new life, and he he is yours. Instead of preaching that's like that, we give people post-it notes with six things to do on them. So thy fevered in thy fevered entreaty shall not be due so much as look. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Uh number seven, then. Uh thou shalt not apologize for the word.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Have you ever have you ever had that like a preacher will sort of maybe maybe it's a a miracle or something that Jesus performs, and they'll spend literally the first half of their sermon on how actually, actually, miracles are really quite, you know, reasonable, and it's reasonable to believe in miracles, and let me let me give you 17 reasons why. And and so you're you're kind of apologizing for the word. All the while you're disbelieving in the one miracle that will make the audience believe in miracles, which is that God speaks through his word, you know. And that he he is able to, you know, to to speak through his word. There's all sorts of things that we can do to apologize for the word. We can make it appear as though, yes, obviously the Bible's very, very harsh, and I need to spend ten minutes to uh show you how it's not really so harsh, or or the Bible's really obscure, and I need to spend ten, fifteen minutes telling you how it's not really that obscure. The Bible's really uh backward or unbelievable, and I need I need to show you how it's not backward or unbelievable, and and I think I think we can spend far too much time apologizing for the word instead of proclaiming it.
SPEAKER_03There's that uh good Spurgeon quote uh that says uh defend the Bible. I'd rather try and defend an uncaged lion.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, we don't need to try and explain the Bible for itself.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. It will it will speak for itself if we just unleash it, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Okay, then number eight, thou shalt not be clever. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And this is an easy one for me to uh Well actually it's not because I'm I'm very tempted to tell you. Did you know that the Greek word for excuses is such and such, and actually it derives from two different Greek words. And sometimes preachers can try and be too clever. And I think it comes from a view of of preaching as though the preacher is this bold bridge builder who stands in between this obscure world of the Bible on one hand and the modern world of today on the other hand. But this preacher stands in the middle, and the preacher is able, because they're very, very clever, to be able to, you know, deconstruct the Bible text and do all the archaeology and do all the linguistic work, and then to be able to translate it that into modern language and and deliver it. And you almost get the sense that you need preachers to be extremely clever and very skillful orators and great communicators, and and that the preacher themselves needs to be this fantastic specimen, when actually the Bible, as you say, is like the lion that you just need to unleash and kind of that's that's the preacher's job. You've sort of got the lion on the leash for a little bit, and then you you just direct it towards the congregation and let the lion of Judah have his way with people, trusting that he's uh ultimately four people and won't just tear them to shreds. Um and you can really do a great disservice to the Bible if you present yourself as this necessary explainer without whom the Bible would be obscure and nobody can understand it. If you if you thrust yourself forward as this clever clogs, you actually make the Bible into this impotent thing. You make the Bible into this obscure thing, this thing that needs you. Uh no, let's not have that, please. Let's uh let's say thou shalt not be clever.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Commandment nine, then, uh thou shalt not go searching for illustrations. I think we covered that last time.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, we touched on that a little bit uh last time about you know going to various websites just to find your illustrations. The reason I say don't go searching for illustrations, I do use illustrations, but uh the reason I say that is is that actually probably the passage that you're working on from the Bible had a lot of illustrations already. This was really driven home to me one time when I was um leading a preaching class, and there was one student who um had to give a talk on John chapter ten as a kind of a a model exposition. And he sort of got to the end, and somebody asked him about his illustrations and why he didn't use any illustrations, and he and he just said, Yeah, I just couldn't find an illustration for Jesus the Good Shepherd. I was j I was just trying to think, what would be an illustration for Jesus the Good Shepherd? There's laughter all around the table. We're like, what do you mean? You don't need an illustration for Jesus. That is the illustration, right? He's like, Oh yeah. And the Bible's just chock full of illustrations. They're already in the passage. Um we don't need to go around and and then do an illustration of an illustration.
SPEAKER_03Okay, and then commandment ten, then thou shalt not go searching for jokes.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Make a joke, be funny, because the Bible's funny. There's lots of humour in the Bible. So uh a couple of weeks ago when I was preaching on Luke 14, and there's this story that Jesus tells about lots of people making excuses for why they can't come to the feast. And all the excuses are like I'm washing my hair or I'm you know, I'm watching television tonight. And and you know, the first two excuses are, you know, I've but bought a field, I need to check it out. The second is I've bought a five yoke and oxen, I need to check it out. The third is I've got a wife and I need to oh like the this kind of inherent humour that Jesus sort of building into his um his stories already. And if you th if you feel like you really need to tell jokes to lighten things up, I I think sometimes we have this idea that we need to sort of throw open the windows and and and freshen things up and liven things up, which portrays a very interesting view of the Bible. As though already the Bible is the dull thing, and the the preacher needs to come in and lighten things up a bit. Um I I just don't think it's like that. Um don't go searching for jokes. Um the Bible doesn't need them, and uh your sermon will probably go better without trying to crowbar in a gag.
SPEAKER_03Okay, well we better recap there, Glenn. We've got to ten. So uh number one, then, thou shalt worship Christ from the pulpit.
SPEAKER_02Number two, thou shalt communicate through both content and style a tangible sense of the newness of God's revelation.
SPEAKER_03Thy tone shall be declarative and devotional.
SPEAKER_02Thy method shall be expositional. Thy goal shalt be Christ. Thy fevered entreaty shall not be do so much as look.
SPEAKER_03Thou shalt not apologize for the word. Thou shalt not be clever. Thou shalt not go searching for illustrations.
SPEAKER_02And thou shalt not go searching for jokes. Okay. Here endeth the lesson of the Ten Commandments.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so then how should I sort of tell whether or not I have done justice to the passage? That I've done a good talk.
SPEAKER_02Well, here are here are five questions that you can sort of ask of your own preaching. Um and you know, maybe spend some time and just and just kind of um honestly reflect on on these five questions. Um, have I communicated Jesus? And by that I mean have I communicated Jesus or have I just moved the bookmark forward in the Bible and covered another twelve verses of Scripture? Have I actually communicated Jesus? Have I actually considered this to be like communion in which I hand over to people Christ and say, Here he is, he's for you. Have I done that, or have I just informed people or just entertained people? Have I communicated Jesus?
SPEAKER_03Okay, and also have I used or abused the passage?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, have have I just like what you said before, you know, have I just crowbared in my own agenda to the scriptures? Um or have I started with my own agenda and then plucked a scripture from the shelf and kind of tried to fit it to my own agenda? Uh am I abusing scripture in the way that I'm preaching?
SPEAKER_03Okay. Uh have I encouraged confidence in the flesh or faith in Christ?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and that's always the choice that's before all of us. Will I trust myself this week? Will I trust Jesus this week? Um and actually, you know, you can kid yourself that you're being a very conservative biblical preacher because you're just going through and you're saying do do do do do do do, but you know at the end of it you've actually encouraged confidence in the flesh. You've encouraged confidence that I am my own savior, I am in charge of my Christian life, and I can do it, and and I'm gonna I'm gonna go for it. Have I encouraged confidence in the flesh, or have I encouraged faith in Christ? Have I encouraged people to think, actually, at the end of the day, when it comes to my relationship with God, I can't earn that, I haven't done it. It's Jesus coming to me. Have I encouraged faith in Christ or or confidence in the flesh?
SPEAKER_03And have I taken people on a journey from Adam to Christ?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I th I think you know the Bible is that kind of journey from Adam to Christ, you know. Adam who fell, Christ who redeems all things and and raises them up. And I and I think wherever you are in the Bible, there is that kind of shape to the Sort of the overviewing story of Adam to Christ. Of Adam to Christ, and that in Adam there are sins and failures and sufferings. In Christ there is redemption and salvation and peace and new life. And I th I think our sermons should take that kind of journey. You know, here is here is God's good life, the law. God's good life. But it's not your life, is it? But there was one who came and lived that life, and he died the death that you deserve, and he ra he was he's raised for you. And I think yeah, our preaching should take that sort of shape from Adam to Christ, from law to gospel.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And have I offered Christ, have I made promises that people can trust? Or have I just reminded people of some truths?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And again, it's just it's going back to that communion thing, isn't it? You know, do we do we do we give people post-it notes or do we give people the bread of life? And I I remember listening to a sermon by somebody. Uh I was I was at the baptism of of one of my godchildren, and and this this guy was preaching on how we need to be like Abraham. Abraham trusted the Lord. Isn't that incredible? He, you know, he stepped out and left his home and was this amazing man of faith. You need to be like Abraham. You need you all need to be like Abraham. And his passage was um in uh Genesis 17. And in that passage there are 25 promises. The Lord says, I will do this, I will do that, I will do this, I will do that. And I was just sitting there thinking, he's telling me to trust God, but he's not giving me any promises. How am I gonna trust? Like a a trust is the is the response to a promise. And if a preacher's not giving me promises from God, then there's no way I'm gonna trust God. No matter how often the preacher tells me, You need to trust God, you need to trust God. Well, trust what? If you're just telling me stuff to do, and even if you're telling me to trust in God, it's not gonna work. You know, if if I say to you, have faith, Andy, you're gonna say, have faith in what? And and unless I give you a promise to trust in, you've you've got no way of having faith. If faith is what comes by hearing, Romans chapter 10, if faith comes by hearing, then that's what we're seeking to produce by the Spirit and and and it's God's work, but we are we are part of the the faith game, so we need to be giving people promises, promises that they can trust. Is our is our preaching, does our preaching offer Christ and offer the promises in Christ, or does it just inform people? If it's just informing people, it's not really preaching.
SPEAKER_03Okay, well uh we better leave it there, Glenn. Uh, we've gone through these ten commandments on uh how to give an evangelistic talk. Uh if you have any comments about today's show or you'd like to respond in some way, you can go to the web address of this episode, which is simply revivalmedia.org slash TEP49. Thanks for listening to the Evangelist Podcast. If you like listening each week, we'd really appreciate a rating and review on iTunes. It helps us to get seen by more people. It's very easy, just go to revivalmedia.org slash iTunes. That will take you directly to the podcast page where you can leave us a rating and review. So again, the web address for this episode is simply revivalmedia.org slash tep forty nine.