This week on the Evangelist Podcast, we're continuing our series looking at evangelistic speaking.
SPEAKER_00The Evangelist Podcast from Revival. Find out what's new in telling people the good news about God, the world, and you. With Andy Brinkley and Glenn Scrivener.
SPEAKER_01Welcome back to the Evangelist Podcast. We're looking at evangelistic speaking, and uh this week we're going to take uh a little bit further what we were talking about uh last time. Uh last time we were talking about sort of what is evangelistic speaking, particularly what you know what is preaching and uh the necessity really to look at it in a spiritual point of view. But we're gonna take it a little bit further.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we're gonna think about what it actually does, and therefore as we think about what preaching actually does according to the Bible, um then how that should uh shape our manner, uh the way that we go about preaching. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01The evangelist is often likened to uh a sow, you know, the sower who just sort of throws things out there, and uh we don't know what happens to it afterwards, and you know that's that's true, but it's good to sort of look at what actually happens when you throw the seed, if you like.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. So I mean I mean Jesus isn't trying to say everything about evangelistic preaching when he gives the the parable of the s of the four soils. Yeah. So yeah, you could get the idea that you just sort of impersonally scatter the seed and who cares. But if you take seriously that this is the word of life, that seed has life to it, then actually the way that you sow would be a way that sort of acknowledges and embraces the the life and the life-giving power of that word, and hopefully that will shape uh the way that we speak.
SPEAKER_01We started to look last time at uh 2 Corinthians chapter 4. Yeah. And uh we we looked at one to six.
SPEAKER_02Shall I read it again in in here's the NIV, uh or today's NIV. Uh therefore, since through God's mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart, rather we have renounced secret and shameful ways. We do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly, we commend ourselves to everyone's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The God of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. For God who said, Let light shine out of darkness, made his light shine in our hearts, to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God displayed in the face of Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_01So I mean it says here that uh and we just picked it up last time that you know the we have a supernatural enemy. Yeah. It's not just that um we're trying to speak to people, there is actually, you know, a spiritual enemy who is blinding them that's trying to keep them away from the light.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Blinding even their minds so that they cannot see the light of the gospel. Well, that's that's you know, my goodness, it's it's not like Paul's not just saying that people are sleepy and they need waking up. He's saying they're dead and they need resurrection. Um, they're blind and they need a miracle. But what's incredible is the miracle comes through preaching. The the miracle comes through just setting forth the truth plainly, verse two. Just preaching Jesus the Lord, verse five, and then all of a sudden, miracle of miracles, let light shine out of darkness, happens in an individual's heart. You know, the miracle that created the universe kind of happens again in miniature in someone's heart just through ordinary preaching. So there's incredible power here given to preaching.
SPEAKER_01So preaching actually not just speaks to their ears, you know, it goes right to the heart, to the mind. Yeah. Um, you know, it's a it's a spiritual act.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, interesting you say the word spiritual, because in verse one of chapter four it says, uh, since through God's mercy we have this ministry. Um and where wherever you see a verse that begins with the word therefore, what do you ask? What happened before? What happened before? What's the therefore, therefore? Well, if you go all the way back to chapter three, verse six, we figure out what ministry preachers have. Chapter three, verse six, God has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter, which is his way of describing the old covenant, the covenant of Moses, not of the letter, but of the Spirit, for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. And then he says in verse seven, Now if the ministry that brought death, this is Moses' covenant, this is the old covenant, if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? And we have this ministry. So what ministry do we have? The ministry of the Spirit, not an old covenant ministry that just speaks of the law and the letter of the law that kills. We have this ministry of the Spirit that gives life. And I think that that really should shape the way that we preach. Um we have this ministry, uh, the ministry of the Spirit, a life-giving ministry. Um says, uh brings righteousness. That's incredible. A ministry that actually brings righteousness, justification to the world. Verse 16, uh you see that uh whenever anyone turns to the Lord, and that's through our preaching, whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Yeah. You think, oh, thank God for that. That's the veil that was covering the minds of the unbelievers. And suddenly we've got a ministry by which the veil is taken away. And it brings spiritual sight. Uh in verse 17, now the Lord is the spirit where the spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. We have a ministry that brings freedom. And in verse 18, it says, uh, we who with unveiled faces contemplate or reflect the Lord's glory, we are being transformed into his image with ever increasing glory which comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. We have a ministry that brings transformation. So what does preaching actually do? It's the ministry of the Spirit, it's the ministry that brings life, it's the ministry that brings righteousness, it's the it's the ministry by which the veil is taken away, it's the ministry that brings spiritual sight, it brings freedom, it brings transformation.
SPEAKER_01So it's it's a lot more than just sharing a few thoughts on a passage or explaining the gospel. This is you know, a real vehicle by which people can can be changed.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. God shines his light through the gospel that we preach. Um and he doesn't he doesn't bypass us. He doesn't zap people um apart from us. He works through us, he gives us his ministry, his ministry is to proclaim the gospel, and in our little words, just pointing to Jesus, all of this happens, the ministry of the ha the spirit happens, life happens, righteousness is given, the veil is taken away, spiritual sight is given, there's freedom, there's transformation. Um which is why verse verse one of chapter four is just so um vital to understand. Therefore, since through God's mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. And I I meet ministers all the time that lose heart. And it's very easy in evangelism, isn't it? To lose heart. And Paul here is saying, Well, maybe if you're losing heart, maybe the reason is you've forgotten the kind of ministry you have. Have you forgotten that your ministry, when you just put words to you know, biblical words to who Jesus is, when you just pre-proclaim Christ the Lord, that you are bringing life and righteousness and spiritual sight and freedom and transformation, do you know that that's what's happening? If you know that that's what what's happening, it will guard you from losing heart.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. This is much more than an evangelistic training which tells you the best sort of uh comebacks when people ask you questions and things like this. Yeah. You know, to actually look at this and and think, well, that you know, this is much more of a spiritual exercise than just uh simply learning tactics and and things. Not to say that you know you shouldn't do evangelism training, but yeah, yeah, keep me in a job, please.
SPEAKER_02But but yeah, what do people need according to chapter four, verse four? They need the veil to be taken away, they need to be unblinded, they don't need to think clearer and we don't need to just shepherd them along a few stepping stones towards faith. God needs to shine in their hearts. How does God shine in their hearts? Through the Christ who we proclaim. So I that's what preaching does. My goodness. Brings life, you know. That is what what we're into, you know. Um my imprisoned spirit lay fast bound in sin and nature's night. Thine eye diffused a quickening ray, I woke the dungeon flamed with light. When does that happen? How does that happen? Well, we set forth the truth plainly, and that's what happens. Yeah. It's it's we do not preach preach ourselves but Jesus Christ as Lord, and then verse six, thine eye diffused a quickening ray. I woke the dungeon flamed with light. That's what it is. But that light comes through our very ordinary preaching. So we should have a much higher view of what's happening. And again, like we said in the last episode, it's not just that, you know, I was ordained, and a bishop laid hands on me, so my words are magic. Like, no, it's not that at all. It's like when you put words to Jesus is Lord, and you you proclaim the biblical truth that Jesus is Lord, describe him in bib biblical ways, God is addressing people. I don't care whether you've been ordained or not. I don't I don't care whether you're speaking on a Sunday, or maybe you're speaking on a Friday night to some youth, or maybe you're just speaking to a mate over a coffee. I don't care. When you're putting words to who is Jesus and what he has done, man, this is this is the ministry that we've been given that actually has the power to take the veil away and give spiritual sight. It's incredible.
SPEAKER_01So have you have you actually sort of seen God's power at work in preaching in the in this life-changing way?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, I I mean I hope everyone has. I mean, uh even in your own life. When I mean I I I remember when I was coming to the Lord, I remember a friend of mine kept in inviting me to church um to listen. Um, and I remember like hating the preacher every Sunday, like furiously, just thinking this guy thinks he's so cool, he thinks he's so hip, he's dropping references to East Enders in because he thinks that makes him down with the kids. He's not down with the kids, you know. And and then I'd come back the next Sunday and get angry, and the next Sunday and get angry, and the next Sunday and get angry. And all the while I was sort of uh in the tractor beam of the Lord's hearing these truths about about Christ, and and I sort of all of a sudden at the end of his preaching, I decided to cross a hemisphere in order to get away from my life that I was, you know, then living and really get to grips with who this Jesus was. And uh and I you know, I I think the you know the preacher's probably still thinks I hate him but something was going on in that preaching. And I and I remember um I was back in Australia and listening to a sermon on Luke 13, and it talked about um there's a parable Jesus tells about the fig tree that doesn't bear fruit for three years, and the owner says, Let's chop it down, and the gardener steps in between, this Christ figure. It's like, no, no, no, no. You know, I'll dig around it, I'll fertilize it, and you know, let you know. If it still doesn't produce fruit after a year, then you can chop it down. And I remember I remember looking back on my university years as three fruitless years, and here is Jesus saying, No, no, no, let's give him one more chance to to be fruitful. And uh it was uh I couldn't tell you the way in which the preacher preached it, but my goodness, God used it, you know, in my soul and I turned to Christ and um and then I I don't know, do you I'm sure you've got Yeah, well I was just just thinking um a number of times, I mean particularly one of my younger brothers uh the the Lord worked in his heart.
SPEAKER_01It was after uh someone was preaching, and he was greatly affected, and uh he disappeared off and nobody could find him. And uh I found him. So I you know I chatted to him uh about it. He said, you know, I don't know if I can ever put all the things right that I need to put things right. And I said, Well, you you need to put your trust in the Lord and trust him to take all the things away, you know, trust him to to do it. And uh he did that and uh he came to the Lord.
SPEAKER_02But uh that's brilliant. Yeah, um but but that's a great example of how like from the pulpit that the word is coming, but also from alongside here comes a brother who again is proclaiming the Lord, you know, kind of from the side, got it from both sides.
SPEAKER_01That's right, yeah. Uh but it's amazing how the Lord works, you know, over periods of time, and yeah. Uh the Lord is patient, and I mean a number of times I've been sitting there listening, and uh, you know, things come to come to a head, come to a climax in my heart, and what the preacher preaches is exactly where I am, you know. Yeah, yeah. It it's just incredible how how the Lord works by his spirit, you know, in in using that uh to bring change.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, how does the great shepherd of the sheep feed his flock? Well, you know, like he commissions Peter, doesn't he? He says, You feed my sheep and and all sorts of under shepherds are feeding the sheep of Jesus with the word, and and Jesus knows how to feed his sheep, and but he feeds his sheep through the word and and and through people bringing the word. In in terms of speaking, preaching the gospel to others, I mean I I still remember uh preaching at a youth club in someone's front room, it was a Tuesday afternoon, and we were just l we were looking at uh doubting Thomas. And so we had uh John chapter twenty open in front of in in in front of people, and I just spoke a few words about um how Jesus appears to Thomas, and uh and then Jesus says, you know, Well, you believe because you saw me. Blessed are those who don't see me and yet believe. And John finishes off that section by saying, These things are written, so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ. So what John's saying is, you know, Thomas got to see Jesus. It's more blessed to believe in Jesus without seeing him. How do you believe in Jesus without seeing him? John says, These things are written so that you may believe. And so I I said to these youth, Look, these things are written so that we can have a Thomas experience. So that through the Scriptures and through me proclaiming the Scriptures, you can encounter Christ. And you can encounter a Christ in a way that's more blessed than the way Thomas did. Therefore, I said, you know, with John's Gospel open in front of them, I said, Therefore, as we've opened John's Gospel, Jesus had c has come into this room, and he wants you to call him my Lord and my God. And Jesus has shown you his his sides and his his scars, he's shown you his war wounds that have taken him to hell and back for you. That's what the Bible is all about. The Bible's all about giving you an encounter with Christ and showing you the war wounds that Jesus has has kind of suffered for you, and he's he's come to you this afternoon, you know, here in Tuesday afternoon, he's come to you and he and he wants you to confess him Lord and God. Now you know, I gave them an opportunity to r to respond to Christ at that point. Now, if they didn't want to receive Jesus as Lord and God, had they only rejected the words of of Glenn Scrivener. Um actually, you know, if we believe John twenty, and if we believe what the Bible says about preaching, if they if they have received my word, they've received Christ. And if they've rejected my word, they've rejected Christ in that moment. And it's not it's not just about Glenn doing a little Bible study with some teenagers. It's about declaring Christ to people, and this is the way that Christ encounters people. Even though it looks so small, it looks so, you know, pathetic and weak, and here we are, just teenagers with Bibles open in front of them. And and and yet, if this stuff is true, then we have this ministry, this life-giving, spiritual, veil taking away, transformative, freedom-giving ministry. Um and again, it's not because not because I'm ordained and you know, this is a Sunday sermon. It's nice just to talk to a youth club and and you with your brother, you know, uh talk to your brother after a after a sermon. And yet, this is the way that God works in order to say let light shine out of darkness.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What effect should this have on the preacher to believe in its power? I mean, you know, it must be quite confidence building.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's it's it's kind of a fearful kind of truth, um, but it's also absolutely gives us gives us this confidence. Just in 2 Corinthians alone, just just sort of around chapter 4, uh, we see the the tone that the Apostle Paul strikes because he knows he's preaching the very Word of God. Uh he says, uh, for instance, chapter 3, verse 12, therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. So it should it should lead to to boldness as we as we preach. It should also, in chapter four, in verse two, it it talks about we don't distort the word of God, we're just plain, we're up front. Because we trust the power of the word, we don't need to kind of dress it up. And we don't need to diminish certain parts, we don't need to soft pedal this, that, or the other. We we're we're doing something that is in itself powerful, so we don't need to use deception or distort the word of God. We set forth the truth plainly. That's the translation of the NIV in uh chapter four, verse two. Set forth the truth plainly. Now sometimes you can kind of think, oh plainly just sounds like a you know you just have to be a very clear lecturer. It's not that at all, actually. The word is more like the word for shining. I think your your translation has manifesting or something.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, manifest manifestation of the truth.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's kind of laying bare the truth in all its shining glory. So that's the way we should do it. We should do it very boldly, we should lay it f lay it bare, um, set forth the truth plainly. Uh if you go into chapter five, Paul kind of talks about the the tone that we should strike, chapter five, verse eleven. Since we know what it is to fear the Lord, um it it's this sense of being overwhelmed by the Lord, that He is He is the greatest sort of factor in all our thinking, and and we are overwhelmed by His glory. So that's part of our tone as well. In verse 11 of chapter 5, we try to persuade others, you know, we try to get people to believe. Um we don't just we don't just lay the truth out on the table and say, take it or leave it. We try to persuade people. Spurgeon in his uh lectures to his students, um no, actually it's it's in Soul Winner, in in his book Soul Winner, um, which was also lectures to his students, but it's Soul Winner, he was talking about um the tone you should strike when you're preaching with people. He said, Uh imagine your friend is on trial for their life and you are begging with the with the Queen, please don't put my friend to death. Please, please, you know, imagine that tone. You know, we persuade people, it's that kind of thing. Um verse 14 of chapter 5, Christ's love compels us. That's another thing to do with our tone. And then verse 20. We are Christ's ambassadors, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God. Imploring people. You know, again, again, please turn. Please come to Christ. God has done everything to reconcile you. Be reconciled. Um that's the sort of the tone, and and it's and in none of this is it a kind of a take it or leave it. Here's here's you know, here are the four steps. If you want to. If you want to, here are the six steps to becoming a Christian. And but we're not, we're we're imploring people who are blinded by Satan and they can't, but we still that's the tone that we strike. And we strike we strike that tone because that's the kind of word we're dealing with. We're dealing with God's own word. And he's reconciled us and given us his ministry of reconciliation. And if God implores the world, if he begs the world, then are we gonna do any less than that? Um I'm always I'm always struck by verse twenty. We we implore you. Or verse twenty, God's making his appeal through us, you know. God begging the world. Isn't that incredible? You know, the the sovereign. You we might think that God, you know, sovereignly just sits on the throne and he doesn't care whether people turn or not. He's he's begging the world. But how does he beg the world? Begs the world through us. So that should shape our tone.
SPEAKER_01Certainly will. Okay, well, we're gonna leave it there for the moment. Um next time we're gonna be looking at uh sort of perhaps a bit more practically, how do we do it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, what do we aim for in preaching and how do we actually achieve it? How do you how do you go from, okay, this is my opportunity to speak? Perhaps, you know, this is a this might be a passage that I'll think about speaking about, how do you put all those things together and actually deliver the word of God in all its fullness?
SPEAKER_01Pens and pencils ready. Okay, well that's all we have for time for this week. You can visit the web address for this episode, which is revivalmedia.org slash TEP47. On that page you can find links to share it or to leave a comment. And also look out for our Revival International Daily Prayer Bulletin, which tells 31 stories of what God is doing around the world. It's completely free, either a PDF download or we can post it to you. Just follow the links there, or if you want a direct link, just go to revivalmedia.org slash bulletin. Again, thanks very much for listening to the Evangelist Podcast. Have a nice day and see you next week. Bye.