SPEAKER_01

On the Evangelist Podcast today, we have Matt Rich from groundwire.org.uk.

SPEAKER_00

The Evangelist Podcast from Revival. Find out what's new in telling people the good news about God, the world, and you. With Andy Brinkley and Glenn Scrivener.

SPEAKER_01

Welcome back to the Evangelist Podcast. And today we have Matt Rich. Glenn. Tell us about him.

SPEAKER_03

He is uh an internet evangelist. So uh interesting. Sort of last week speaking to Gavin Tight um and and he was very much kind of just be yourself and your Christianity will kind of come out of you and bubble out of you. And I and I think that absolutely that that is um yeah to be aimed for and prayed for. Um but uh I thought maybe this week we could talk to somebody who um in addition to just wanting to authentically live before others, actually concretely thinks, well, how can I set aside time to uh to contact people and be contacted by by strangers who I haven't met before and uh and pursue evangelism in that way. So uh Matt's been doing that with uh Groundwire, an organization we're gonna hear about. And uh he'll also uh talk to us about how uh just ordinary Christians can be uh better witnesses online.

SPEAKER_01

Excellent. Okay, well we'll have that in a minute. Um special thanks to everyone who's left us a rating on iTunes. Uh and uh the reviews, if you haven't given us a review, uh would you mind taking a look? It helps us to get seen by more people the more reviews we have. Just go to revivalmedia.org slash iTunes or revivalmedia.org slash stitcher.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, well we have with us uh Matt Rich from uh Groundwire. And uh thank you so much for joining us on the program, Matt.

SPEAKER_02

Matthew That's okay, it's a pleasure. Thank you for asking.

SPEAKER_03

Fantastic. We're we're in a series talking about uh online evangelism and uh not only uh online resources that can help you evangelise, but also how uh ordinary Christians can just be a better online witness. Um now, Matt, you've been involved in uh internet evangelism for for some years now, haven't you? Uh tell me how how did you get involved in it to begin with?

SPEAKER_02

Well, I've actually been involved in internet evangelism for since the year 2000. Um and it all really stemmed from the work I was doing before I started doing Internet evangelism, because I was working with young people um doing sort of youth work and schools work, and I actually wanted a way for the young people to be able to contact me when I when they weren't with their peers, so to be able to contact me more privately or anonymously so they could ask their questions. And it kind of stemmed from that because as as I saw that being used, it occurred to me, quite obviously really, when I think back, that why limit it to just them?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So what was what were you using back then in 2000? What what kind of ways of uh being in contact with people?

SPEAKER_02

Well, initially it was just started with uh a website and I would do part of an assembly. Well, I would do a whole assembly, but I would only give part of the solution or part of the answer or leave a question, and then I'd encourage them to email me with the answers. And then it moved from there to more of a forum-based um so they could interact interact with each other as well as with me. That's and then we've since then obviously we even moved into new things with Groundwire.

SPEAKER_03

Fantastic, fantastic. So um, so you're not you're not a youth worker anymore. How do you spend your days these days?

SPEAKER_02

I work full-time on the internet as a missionary, and so I tend to spend half of my time actually doing the missionary work and half the time sort of trying to grow the work to encourage others and to enable more people to know that we exist.

SPEAKER_03

So uh you're involved with uh groundwire.org.uk. Can you tell us where Groundwire came from and what it is?

SPEAKER_02

Well, initially um I was doing various works on the internet as a missionary full-time um since the year 2000. Um, but as the internet sort of developed and more people became involved in doing mission work online, we needed to specialise in something. And it was around that time when we were praying about how to specialise that we were actually contacted by Groundwire in America, which is uh separate to us, but it's we partner with them, and that's why we've used the same name. And they offer live one-to-one chat with a Christian 24-7, and it's what we really wanted to do in the UK, but we weren't able to just launch that because you have that difficulty. How can you invite people to come and chat at any time of day or night when you don't have enough volunteers? But how do you get volunteers involved when you don't have people coming? So we've linked in with them, and so we actually share the same chat system and we help each other out.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, okay. So so if if I do log on to groundwide.org.uk, I could end up speaking to someone in Tampa, Florida.

SPEAKER_02

You could end up speaking to someone in Florida, you could end up speaking to someone in Canberra, you could end up speaking Well, I I'm not sure if Canberra, we've got about eight coaches, I think, in Australia. I'm not sure quite any of them's in Canberra. That was just for your sake. You'll know you're from there.

SPEAKER_01

That's right. Does anything good come out?

SPEAKER_02

Potentially you could end up speaking to someone from Canada, South Africa, America, Australia, uh, or the UK.

SPEAKER_01

I noticed on uh from the Groundwire website that you had sort of quite a you had like a form where people not so much to register but enter their name and their email address and and everything. Um is that to filter people to so that you don't just get anybody, you get people who are genuinely seeking?

SPEAKER_02

Well, we've actually uh uh changed the form from time to time and tried to sort of perfect it. At the moment, um for the last few months, we've only actually been asking for them to give a name and a country, but they choose to give other information if they want some form the only essential bits of information in the name. Sometimes they make it up, but it enables us usually to identify whether they're male or female because it's a typed conversation that we have with people, and so we can't actually see them. And the country is more just for information and it helps us sometimes culturally, and we tend to find that people aren't afraid to tell us which country they're from, even if they would prefer not to tell us which city they're from.

SPEAKER_01

Sure. And how do you get sort of people how do you drive traffic to to the website? Do you sort of uh invite people to come and ask you, or do you are you posted on directories or do you buy advertising or well we've done it a number of different ways.

SPEAKER_02

The most successful way, the way we get the most people from is just from all organic Google searches, so not paid for advertising. If you put in to Google Christian help, spiritual help, Christian advice, spiritual advice, we're normally on page one.

SPEAKER_04

Wow.

SPEAKER_02

And um also for things a bit more um ambiguous like chat help, we're often on page one or two.

SPEAKER_03

You're obviously very good at search engine optimization then.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I think the Lord's been gracious to us. And we haven't touched it since it worked. Wow. Wow. Um, so that's the biggest way that people find us. Um, but we also are linking in with churches across the denominations and encouraging them where they have a website, particularly if they've got a part of it or a section of it that's aimed at those outside of the church. Um people are putting a link sometimes on the front page, but otherwise on this other section, um, just saying if you want to ask a question now, click on here and that comes directly through to us as well.

SPEAKER_01

Do you do you are they sort of scheduled, like on a rotor or uh people to sort of man the lines, as it were?

SPEAKER_02

We do have a rotor, but not everybody's on it. So obviously our idea is that people sign up for a few hours slot um uh as ma as often as they can in the week. But we would prefer people to be involved with us, even if their schedule doesn't allow them to do that. And I have to say, probably the majority of people come on when they can, but we do have some, um, and it's obviously easier for us with those people who actually schedule a slot.

SPEAKER_03

Okay. So how many people would use Groundwire in a month, say?

SPEAKER_02

Well, there's there's two sort of sets of statistics. Uh groundwire.org.uk is one way into the chat system, and that's the one that I'm sort of in charge of, and that's the one I've set up. And with that one, we would get um this month we had 650 conversations, last month 700 conversations. So that kind of gives you some kind of idea. That's not visitors to the site, that's actually conversations. But if we were to take all the different ways that come into the chat system, so that's from America and from other places as well, then we would take more than 3,000 conversations a month.

SPEAKER_03

Goodness, like 100 a day, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Um and we're partnering with different organizations, so it's not just our own driven um chats. We have other organizations, maybe some people have heard of Campus Crusade for Christ, that's obviously an American organization. Um they're one of their websites for aimed at students drives their chat traffic straight through to us as well.

SPEAKER_03

Give us a flavor of the kind of conversations that you that you might have on a given day with people.

SPEAKER_02

People come on for a whole host of different reasons. Um we occasionally, and these aren't as many as I thought would would happen, we occasionally get people coming on who want to prove that we're wrong.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

So they they come on because either they don't believe anything or they are a different religion. We don't get many of those, but that's one extreme, one end. Would they main would they mainly be atheists or or uh perhaps Muslim apologists or Muslim apologists is the most common, but also um those that are across with God and therefore would call themselves atheists because they've rejected him for that reason.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

unknown

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02

Um so we get those on one side, and then the other extreme, we can talk to someone that's really committed and part of their church and actively involved in leadership, but actually has no one to tell some secret thing they're struggling with. So you've got that on the other end, which is not your evangelism side, but it's more that you're sort of helping and pastorally someone. I would say the biggest sort of grouping would be those that have had some contact with church in the past, whether that's through a relative or through a child as when they were a child and they haven't had any contact with church maybe for 20 years, 30 years, or whatever, but they've had some contact and something's caused them to question life because of the issues that they're going through in their life at the moment. That's probably the biggest group. And that would include those that um never really understood about Jesus, and it will also include those that are kind of on the fringe but are thinking of giving it up completely.

SPEAKER_03

And so would a common denominator be that those sorts of people sound like they're going through tough times? Is is that what sort of drives people to to this?

SPEAKER_02

I think that's what drives people the majority of people who are uh searching on Google for answers, yeah. But that wouldn't necessarily be the same for those that are coming directly from um a church link. Sure.

SPEAKER_03

That seems to be a a sort of a fascinating intersection between pastoral care and evangelism, then. But the presenting thing is I'm having feelings of despair, anger, whatever, bitterness, whatever. That that actually evangelism is happening in in the context of a hurting world and hurting people. What can we learn as Christians about that kind of dynamic? Because obviously you're you're doing evangelism into tricky pastoral situations. What can ordinary Christians learn about that for their own witness?

SPEAKER_02

Um it definitely is that category of evangelism, I would say. But I would also say that my experience is that the majority of people in this world have something that they're struggling with or hurting about, that they just often don't express it. Um and so the the thing of ground wire actually is enabling them to express it. So these aren't necessarily the extreme people, they're people that have just found that there's an anonymous way to express those concerns and worries about life. Um, but the thing that we can learn, I believe, is that we don't always have the answers, but we do have someone that can bring hope in the middle of the storm. So we can't necessarily make the storm go away, but we do know Jesus who can calm the storm or travel through the storm with you. And so with our conversations, uh, we always are looking for two things, really. We have two aims and objectives, and sometimes um the second one doesn't come to play, but we're looking to see if we can with the second one. And the first aim is that we try and take the chatter, because it's a typed chat conversation, take to take the chatter a step closer to Jesus in some way. Now, for some of them, that might just be we, you know, enabling them to see that there is a chance that there's a God. So it might be a right at that point, or for others it will be actually coming to faith or answering some of their doubts. Or you know what I mean? So just for different people, sometimes it's a small step. And I think one of the things that we can learn is that people don't necessarily evangelism isn't about the final art, the final solution, the final part of that journey. Evangelism is moving people a bit closer, and we all play different parts in that. And then the second aim and objective we have is to try, in a sense, to lose the people. And what I mean by that is we try and encourage them to speak face to face with a Christian to go to church, we put them in touch with a pastor or a pastor's wife or someone from a church to meet for coffee, or we try and get them face to face with believers as well.

SPEAKER_01

I imagine that you have sort of quite a cross-section of people, some in sort of almost suicidal situations, and uh others uh not so. Is that the case?

SPEAKER_02

And and Yeah, very definitely. I mean, you we have some that are really at the extreme end where you know they they need to be speaking to some experts, and we don't claim to be experts. I would describe what we give would be more of a pastoral advice level.

SPEAKER_01

That's quite a responsibility, isn't it? If somebody is very suicidal, you've got to be really careful about what you say.

SPEAKER_02

It it is, it's definitely. I mean, people are very aware that they've come to a Christian spiritual chat in a sense, so there is a an acceptance of that fact by the fact that they've come through to us. Um, but there is a big responsibility there, but the very fact that they're taking the time out to look for someone to talk to, we haven't just bumped into them gives us the hope that maybe we have a message from them that that the God wants them to hear.

SPEAKER_01

Do you have any sort of uh uh success stories that you can share with us?

SPEAKER_02

Um, yeah, we have, yeah. I mean, success comes in different in different forms, but one of the sort of more recent success stories is with uh I'll be very careful as to what I say, obviously, but it was with a 15-year-old um girl who was really struggling with uh situations that she was involved in, wasn't a believer, and she came on looking for answers, looking for help, never told anyone her story, her situation, but because of the anonymous nature of it, she felt she was able to. And over a number of days and weeks, we different coaches chatted with her and helped her and supported her. And this as the story carried on, we arranged for her to when after she told us where she was in the UK, we arranged for her to meet um a pastor's wife and another lady from the church for coffee. And now the end further down the story is that she's regularly going along to church with them and she's going to a midweek meeting um to learn more about Jesus, and also she's out of the abusive situation that she was in. So, in a sense, we are still in contact with her because that's her choice. But if we never heard from her again, that wouldn't matter. We've done our our part of that task, and she's now involved in a local church.

SPEAKER_03

Fantastic. So you must be quite sort of involved in sort of church networks so that you know, you know, where is a good church in Peterborough to link someone into. I mean, how do you how do you make those sorts of calls?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's the big tricky one, that one, isn't it? Um contacts, contacts with contacts, and if we're really struggling, then we will go down one of two routes, which is either we will Google the church and make contact with them ourselves, um, or we will um use other sort of lists. So we will be looking for those that are at churches that are outward looking. So we will look at who's run sort of mission-oriented courses, so whether that's an alpha course or a Christianity explored course, because we need churches that are looking out and wanting to bring new people in. But it but it is quite a challenge.

SPEAKER_03

Sure. What kind of training do you give to those who want to be coaches?

SPEAKER_02

Um there's a whole process that people go through to become involved with us, and part of that and the initial right at the initial stage is that they need the the recommendation of their church leader. So, in in a sense, that cuts out hopefully um those that the church wouldn't be happy doing it. And so if people come to us with sort of no experience of helping people at all, I don't mean in a formal sense, but you know, they've they've just not done anything, then we would normally sort of be looking to recommend that they do some stuff with their church first, just because we don't have the time to start from scratch. Um, but the majority of people that choose to become involved in us with us have already been involved in evangelism and helping people and that kind of thing with their church or with a mission agency or something. And so then often it's more of a case of fine-tuning rather than training from scratch. So there's sample questions that we've been asked that they need to reply to so we can see how they would reply. There's um a handbook that we've produced that explains about the work, what we are, what we don't give advice about, what we do, or our position is about things, or you know, to me, we're part of the Evangelical Alliance, for example. So if it's someone's asking a question that's in their statement of faith, then we're categoric about it. But then there are other areas where churches have different views. So it covers that kind of thing. Um, and then does cover some of the sort of common bigger issues that we might be asked to do, what to do with someone that's suicidal, that kind of thing. So there's like a document that people read and ask questions about or we approve. I mean, they agree to uh follow and abide by. And then the last stage is we take them on for a mock chat, um, where I become the chatter and they they respond to the things I throw at them. But then because it's a typed conversation, we unlike um real life, if you want to make that distinction, when people go out in real life, you don't really know what they're gonna say on what they've said. But online, we initially there's kind of like a probation period where we read every single conversation they have with people and give them feed and give them feedback. And if necessary, we would um cause it to end at that point if it became obvious that that was needed.

SPEAKER_03

What other kinds of organizations are there? Are there other organizations doing anything similar to you out there?

SPEAKER_02

Um in the UK, we're the only organization that offers this live chat 24-7. Um, I think maybe a few sort of smaller organizations might do something similar for an hour or two on selected days, that kind of thing. Um but uh I believe that there are a couple of organizations, other organizations in America that do it, but not in the UK, certainly. Um but and as a result, we're in conversation with quite a few um Christian organizations that have a sort of mission focus online, and they're having conversations with us about whether us taking their live chats for them.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Rather which would be better, you know, much better to all work together. Yes. Rather than have four different organizations huh struggling to staff.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

Now, as an evangelist, you you you've kind of given yourself to internet evangelism um sort of more than other other kinds. Yes. Why? Why what what what do you see as the as the benefits of of devoting your time to to online?

SPEAKER_02

Um well as you say, I've done many different forms of evangelism over the years. I was a missionary in Fiji for a year and a half, and I've done youth work and things like that, mission work in schools. The I don't think that the internet is necessarily better. I think it's better for some things and worse for others. But I do think that it's an area of mission that the church has got left behind in. If you look at businesses and the amount of money they pour into advertising their product online or their facility or whichever shop you go to online, there's the opportunity to chat with a member of staff. We've seen, for whatever reason, the church has kind of got a bit left behind with that. And the I see it as a crucial area for evangelism. It's where do people go when they want to know something? Most people I know will Google their question. They won't turn up a church and ask it, they won't go to the library and ask it, they'll go on to Google. So it's become the natural place where people explore things. And what we want to do, and a sense why we're devoted to this project in particular, is that we don't want people just to find information. We want people to find a loving, caring conversation. And it it needs to be more than just email as well, because When people want an answer in this day and age, they want it when they've got the question, not tomorrow or the next day or the day after. And if we can provide that, then so much the better. I mean, when we think of evangelism in the street or something, if someone came to us with a question, we wouldn't say, That's great, I'll come back to you and meet you here tomorrow and give you the answer. We just wouldn't do it. And yet, online, a lot of evangelism often is done, you know, through through email or whatever, which for some people is great, but certainly the generations that are growing up now, um, email up is becoming less and less the big thing, isn't it? People text or they chat.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. So what would you like to see developed in terms of online evangelism?

SPEAKER_02

Um I think it would be great if there was more chatting evangelism going on, but then I would say that, wouldn't I? Um and I think it would be good, therefore, if Christian organizations worked together to provide an excellent service by joining together to do that.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Um, because every church can't offer live chat at three o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But people are asking questions at three o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And to be able to work together in that way would be great. One of the things that um I wouldn't like to see is everybody struggling to do their own thing.

SPEAKER_03

And especially, I mean, is there such a thing as a as a kind of a a ground wire widget that you could put in your sidebar of your of your church website? I'm just thinking that.

SPEAKER_02

Um well what we've what we've we've done so far is uh we've promoted the idea to those that we know and we've come into contact with that you can either use your own images because people often have their own design style for their website, or we are happy to provide something for them, and that will just link straight through to to the the chat page where people can chat. And another thing that we're we're doing, and we're wanting um to be in contact with churches, it's a new project that we're aiming to do, is to bring chatnow as is another domain name that we have, chatnow.org.uk, and for people to use that on their evangelistic literature as well. So it's just as an alternative place for where people can ask their question. So we give someone something in the street. Yes, we'd love them to ask the question face to face, yes, we'd love them to turn up at church and ask that question. But the majority of people, that's a step too far. Um, but they will have a question.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And given that anonymous opportunity. And so one of the things we're wanting to do in that sense as well with churches is to encourage them not only on their website, but also with other things that they produce, if they want to give an alternative way for people to be able to ask those questions, to maybe use our chatnow.org.uk domain name.

SPEAKER_03

Great, great domain name.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Matt, perhaps everyone's not cut out to be an online coach. Um, and how can ordinary Christians be a witness online?

SPEAKER_02

Depending on what your use of online is, there are many different ways. A lot of people are on things like Facebook and Twitter, and there are some great resources out there of things that you can share that will obviously, in a more sort of subtle way, show your interest that others that know you might inquisitively take a look at. So that's a sort of a low-key way. I don't think you have things like yeseis.com or what YesE is and their resources, or in just in little individual organizations sometimes produce great little, particularly when it comes to things like Christmas or whatever, little sort of retellings of the story in a different way, that kind of thing. Um just image I'm particularly keen on the videos that uh uh produce are some really good videos that people produce that you can sort of share. I don't mean in a sense in an aggressive way by telling all your friends that you must look at this. Um, but just by by it being shared, people do look.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, so that's on a sort of very casual basis. And then those that are are keener can do things on their church website. Um, I'm a great believer that church websites should be there and they should be aimed at those outside the church. The majority of church websites mainly are aimed at those inside the church. And the reality is that a member a member of your church will make an extra effort to click an extra button to go and read the bit that's for them, but someone outside of the church won't. So the front page of an outside of the church website would be great if it was aimed at those outside explaining the things that they might have questions about rather than just things for members of the church already. Very good point.

SPEAKER_03

And and in terms of how we conduct ourselves online, do you think we do a good job of sort of being being Christian online?

SPEAKER_02

That's a huge question, isn't it? If you're thinking of on um sort of social media and that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. Um, I think the danger of social media, the biggest thing with social media is it paints the big rosy picture, doesn't it normally? Yeah. Of uh all the good things and all that we're doing, all the things that we hope everybody else will like, all the things that make us look good, whether that's a photo of us looking good and smiling and happy situations and great fun we're having. Um and although that's nice, it's not the full picture and the full story, is it? And so that's the challenge is for Christians to be real online and not just sort of propagate the the old everything's rosy picture. I don't mean we need to be depressive online. I know, I don't believe that either. But um that we need to be truthful.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

If we're constantly online, then we need to make sure that we are the genuine article, that we are who we are, because what people like about us is that as Christians in real life, hopefully, is that we are truthful, that we are generous, that we are caring, and that we're concerned about them. And if we can be that online as well, then uh that's that's half the battle, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

If there was someone listening that was interested in in helping out uh to groundwire, what would they need to do?

SPEAKER_02

Well, the the main groundwire.org.uk website is aimed primarily at those that are needing to come and chat. Yeah, so it's the bit about how to get involved is a little bit hidden. There is a button at the top right hand corner that says get involved, but otherwise, if you put in groundwire.org.uk forward slash Christian, it jumps you in at the right place that explains about how to get involved. And there's an application form on there, and it you just and frequently asked questions, or you can just drop me an email and ask them directly. But um, yeah, we're always looking for more people as one side of the work grows, which it is, we need to grow the number of volunteers that are there giving their time to help people. And one of the things that's quite different about this type of work is that it's very upfront. People will tell you in 10 minutes what they won't tell anyone else in 10 years. And also we are able to communicate amongst ourselves and ask for help in the middle of a conversation. In real life, face to face, that's quite awkward to do. Yeah, but obviously, you can have books open, you can have websites open, you can suggest people to go and look at things, you can show them videos if you've into that kind of thing. You can ask another coach, please can you look at my conversation? I'm a bit stuck, what should I say? So even if you're not the expert, but you have a heart for it, then in a sense, it's a good way of in strengthening your faith, strengthening your ability to tell other help other people and improving your ability at presenting the gospel as well.

SPEAKER_03

And you don't have a an age profile for coaches and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02

Um it's funny, it there was one week last um a few months ago when I had the youngest person ever apply and the oldest person.

SPEAKER_05

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

So on the within two days, I had we have to you have to be 18 to apply.

SPEAKER_05

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

And so we had someone that was 18 in one month that was applying. And on the two days later, I had someone that was 80 in one month. Wow. Um, and so although the 80-year-old didn't actually want to do live chat, we do have a number of um emails that come in as well and that need responding to. So he particularly wanted to do that.

SPEAKER_03

So somewhere in between those two. Or even older. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

That's right.

SPEAKER_03

Brilliant. Well, thank you so much, Matt. That gives us a great uh overview of the work and um and some really helpful uh tips as well on just our own personal uh evangelism.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks, Matt.

SPEAKER_02

Well, thank you for asking. It's been great to chat with you.

SPEAKER_03

Pleasure. All right. Okay then. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_01

Bye-bye. Well, that was that was really interesting there from Matt Rich. Yeah. Um what kind of stock out to you?

SPEAKER_03

Uh uh what he said about you know, you can share something within ten minutes online that you wouldn't share offline in ten years. I I think that's really interesting, isn't it? We t we tend to poo-poo uh uh online the online world is the virtual world and it's not real life. But him just sort of saying, actually people can be more real online than they are offline, and what an opportunity for evangelism that is.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And the anonymous nature of it, you know, if they just have to enter a nickname, um, you know, they they can really share their heart that they wouldn't perhaps with their parents or you know, hiding from their best friends even.

SPEAKER_03

And then you're suddenly down to brass tacks very quickly in it. And I also love the that that idea that that really people are coming on because they're hurting. And it's an evangelistic organization, and you know, the first aim is to take them a step closer to Jesus. But the presenting thing is you know, this pastoral issue. And I just think I I I think in evangelism Christians need to be a lot better at linking up their pastoral care with their evangelism and and that Jesus is is in the storm with people and and being able to proclaim that to hurting people, I think, is is kind of the essence of evangelism, really.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I mean, I I i what I captured was kind of the daunting nature of speaking to people that could be on on the verge of something and having desperate situations. But in the same vein, you know, it was couched in one of accountability, you know, they sort of kept the logs, the volunteers are helping and supportive supportive and and just making sure that they're saying the right thing. As well as giving training to to these things, because that's quite difficult as well, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Well it's it's the nature of all kinds of evangelism. In all kinds of evangelism, you get to to know people's deepest secrets and yeah, things can things can get very hairy. So it's in in one sense it's kind of the nature of the case. If we if we really if we want to get beyond just a trite answer to, you know, superficial questions, then we are going to be encountering situations where real life and death uh matters of the heart are brought to us. Um but you know, at the at the end of the day we we prayerfully you know try and give the wisdom that that the Lord's given to us and and we we have to commit them to the Lord, you know, um in the midst of that. But um great great work that Matt uh Matt's doing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, they uh the obviously need uh volunteers, so if if anyone's listening wants to catch up with them, that'd be a good thing to do.uk slash Christian. Christian, yeah, that's it. If you have any comments about today's show or would like to share it, you can just go to revivalmedia.org slash TEP34. It's got the show notes, it's got the links to the Groundwire website where you can get involved as well. Um and also links to Yes He is, as we mentioned on the podcast, along with anything else that's relevant. It's a mobile friendly page, so you can you can visit it on your mobile at revivalmedia.org slash TEP34. Thanks for listening to the Evangelist Podcast. Just before we finish, I want to tell you about our free daily prayer bulletin. It's a small twenty-four page booklet that tells thirty-one stories of what God is doing around the world. Did you know that Christians are saving children from the sex trade in Nepal? That churches are growing in Sri Lanka, or that churches in Hawaii are uniting for the gospel? Well, you can hear more about it in our prayer bulletin. You can get it free of charge by going to revivalmedia.org slash bulletin. So lastly, the web address for this episode is revivalmedia.org slash tep thirty four.