On this edition of the Evangelist Podcast, we're continuing to think about what's stopping us sharing the good news.
SPEAKER_00The Evangelist Podcast from Revival. Find out what's new in telling people the good news about God, the world, and you. With Andy Brinkley and Glenn Scriver.
SPEAKER_03Welcome back to the Evangelist Concast. Welcome back to the Evangelist Podcast. This is the show where we encourage you in your witness to your friends, your family, and even complete strangers. I'm Andy Brinkley, and with me is Glenn Scrivener.
SPEAKER_02Hello.
SPEAKER_03How are you doing, Glenn?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, very good. I'm quite hungry, so if my um if my stomach rumbles on air, you'll have to forgive me, or you'll have to edit it out or something.
SPEAKER_03But it's only ten o'clock.
SPEAKER_02I know. I only had a banana for for breakfast.
SPEAKER_03I'll tell you why, it's because it's coffee time. That's why.
SPEAKER_02That's it.
SPEAKER_03Anyway, maybe after this.
SPEAKER_02Okay. This will be the fastest podcast ever.
SPEAKER_03So Glenn, we were looking at last time, we were looking at uh dirty hands, and we were talking about uh sort of the the feeling of not really wanting to get involved in the world, not wanting to uh to to mix with people and and wanting to keep ourselves a feeling of pure purity. Yeah. Also, what stops us from sharing the good news possibly is fear. I mean that's that's a big issue really, isn't it? Perhaps we want to look okay in the world's eyes, we don't really want to be seen as religious fanatics and we we've got our own image of ourselves to sort of protect.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Yeah, so last last time we were thinking about um we want to be okay with God, and we feel like if God is pure and holy, you know, we need to get out of the world in ought to in order to be pure and holy, and that's a that's a wrong view of God uh that we need to sort of upend. And and now we're thinking about a wrong view of the world as though we ought to fear the world, which we do. We do we fear what people think of us. We we fear coming across as an idiot, we fear coming across as a fanatic or a lunatic, we fear losing friends, we fear pushing them too far. There's all sorts of things we we fear about the world, and I I probably I guess it's it's perhaps the number one thing that stops us evangelizing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I s I guess we don't we don't want to stir the pot too much, we don't want to kind of upset this relationship perhaps that we've made with uh with a neighbour so far and we don't want to push it and we're just treading very carefully. Yeah. Because we want to stay looking cool or whatever.
SPEAKER_02Or yeah, or whatever, because yeah, maybe maybe cool's not the look that we go for, but we all we all we all go for some kind of safe identity in the world. In our comfort zone. In our comfort zone. And you know, mentioning the name of Jesus just pops all those bubbles pretty quickly. Yeah. Um I remember speaking to um Henry Alonga, who's uh he was a Zimbabwean cricketer, and um he uh protested against Robert Mugabe and sort of got all sorts of death threats and he was ejected out of Zimbabwe. I don't think he's been back for many years, fifteen years maybe. And um it was it was interesting because he he's a very funny guy and he and he tells his story and and he's a very warm guy. He's got an incredible singing voice. He he sort of won like the equivalent of like Zimbabwe, he's got talent or whatever. Um he's had a Zimbabwean number one, you know, single. Yeah, yeah. Actually, I think he won a like a Channel 5 talent thing as well. Um so here's this guy, he's a good-looking guy, he's funny, he is very talented, both on the field and off the field. And um it was interesting sort of talking to him about sort of evangelism because I'd I'd always imagined that basically what evangelism is is getting the really cool guy to be really respected by the world, and then the cool guy to say, Oh, and by the way, I'm also a Christian. And then the rest of the world goes, Really? Oh, well, if I want to be cool like you, then I need to be a Christian, you know. And and we we never sort of say it like that, but we kind of think in the back of our heads that's what the true evangelist is. They're really, really cool, they really fit in the with the world, and they're a Christian. But you know, talking to Henry Alonga, he's he said, you know, he was the pariah of the team. Um because not o not only was he kind of stirring the apple cart because he thought that his Christian convictions were making him stand up against the establishment in Zimbabwe, and that was that was upsetting the apple cart. And he was also handing out tracts everywhere everywhere to his to his teammates, and uh he was talking about Jesus and and you know he was he he said, Look, I wasn't I wasn't the life and soul of the party. I wasn't the the most popular guy in the dressing room, I wasn't the guy in the bar afterwards, you know, who's uh the centre of attention at all. I stuck out like a sore thumb. I was really, really different. But he said that being different was really what his witness was all about because when other teammates were doing badly, you know, their their form was falling, they were about to get, you know, dropped from the team. Or when their marriages were were going bad or family situations were going bad, then Henry was the guy they turned to because they knew he was different. But that that kind of gave me a real insight because I I played cricket and I used I used to be involved in a an organization uh well it wasn't very organized, but we were s we called ourselves Christians in cricket in Sydney and we sort of met together and we uh I I certainly took from that meeting this understanding that I I need to be the guy who, you know, takes five wickets and scores a hundred runs and I'm in the bar till late at night telling jokes, and I'm a Christian. And it's just not the way it is in the New Testament, and it's not the way it's not the way it is with actually effective evangelists like Henry Alonga. It is actually about sticking out, but we don't want to stick out because we're afraid, and that's kind of what this episode's about.
SPEAKER_03I mean there are lots of fears, we've named some of them. Sometimes we fear offending people, we're f afraid of being the people that upset them or you know.
SPEAKER_02And that's and that's a beautiful thing. It's uh it you know, it's beautiful to actually care about your friends and family enough to be afraid of that actually. And and you know, and before we say, you know, pull yourself together and just, you know, give them the hard truth, I think there's a great danger in evangelism of just spewing the gospel onto people uh out of context with with no love for the person.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean there is that aspect of not caring what people think of you, you know, and just going out there and speaking spiritual sounding words with no care for the person, you know, no no action to to touch them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean you can you can have kind of you know the evangelist who goes out with the megaphone on the street corner and you think, oh they have no fear of the world, isn't that isn't that a good and godly thing? Well, you know, you and I have been involved in in quite a lot of street evangelism and that and that kind of thing, but we're not into the we're not into the just blurting truth onto people and proving how you know how thick skinned we are. I think there always ought to be a d a vulnerability to evangelism actually. Because in in that way we we we are like our Lord. You know, when when Jesus came, you know, if we cut him, does he not bleed? And and his approach to the world was it not with arms wide open? And did he not say, You can do your worst to me, but I'll still love you? And and isn't that actually what we need to our approach needs to be to the world? Is that actually a vulnerability? Jesus talks about, you know, seed just being sown in these hostile soils. And again, you know, there is power in the seed and and there's power in the words that we've been given, but there's also a vulnerability and a weakness, and we we look weak, we look foolish. And there's there's actually a beautiful thing in some ways about fearing what goes on in evangelism. If there wasn't, Paul wouldn't confess, you know, in in his letters. You know, I I I was I came among you with fear and trembling. But in one Corinthians that's what he's like, and in one Corinthians one and two he he kind of says he comes he comes to Corinth and he's he's fearful and trembling, and he looks weak, and he looks foolish, and he sounds weak, and he sounds foolish, and everyone asks him to do cool stuff like miracles and uh you know, to make cool arguments like the Greeks would would like, and he doesn't, you know, he he comes looking like Jesus and he preaches the Jesus-shaped message of Christ and him crucified. So some fear in that sense, if we want to talk about in that sense, I think that's a I think that can be a beautiful thing actually. That's that's rightly loving those who come and it's rightly modelling the way Christ approaches us.
SPEAKER_03There was uh uh an evangelist uh I heard, he said, If I if I told you that next Tuesday, for example, you're gonna go and give your testimony at the local pub, except one thing that's gonna happen between now and then is your is your prayer life's gonna go and shoot you up to the roof. Yeah. Because you know, the fear is uh going to drive you to to your knees, you know. Yeah. But uh that kind of fear can be of a benefit, and it would be wrong in a sense not to be fear, because it it would almost be opposite to caring what was going on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly. And I and I think that's touching on that same thing that we were talking about, the comfort zone thing. We love the comfort zone so much. Um but Jesus loves us too much to allow us to kind of fossilize in our little comfort zones. As we saw in our our last episode, Hebrews 13, verse 13, you know, Jesus was crucified outside the city gate, and he says, Let us go to him outside the city gate. In the unclean place, in the dangerous place, in the place where Jesus is not yet known. Let's go out to him, and it's a fearful thing, and it'll be great for our prayer life. And it'll be great for us to remind ourselves who we really are. Because I think there's a big issue of my identity at play here. We build all sorts of false identities. You know, I'm the cool one, I'm the pretty one, I'm the knowledgeable one, I'm the sporty one, I'm whatever. And evangelism, or or in fact, just loving people, cuts across all those things. Because building that identif identity for myself, it's just about me, really. And everything's about how it reflects on me, and and and that doesn't love anybody, but actually when we extend ourselves out into the world with something to offer, you know, from Jesus, we've got something to offer, and out into the world we go. It at that point we've got to drop the masks and we've got to drop that identity. And at that point it's a real test of is my true identity in Christ or in the flesh. In ourselves. In ourselves. And and you know, I I know this as a as an Australian living in the UK, that supporting the other sports team actually makes more concrete my Australian identity. Even when we're losing we've had the worst summer ever. Lost at the rugby, lost at the cricket, you know, last year lost at the Olympics, you know, lost well, in terms of gold medals to to to England, to Great Britain. So but if you've got if you've got any sort of sense of being Australian, at that point you don't you don't keep quiet about being Australian, you know. Stupidly, you you keep on wearing the Australian rugby top, you know, when you're getting beaten. And and in some sense you you you feel more of an affinity with your team. More identity, yeah. When you when you do that. And and and and I think the same can be true um as we go out and and we we name the name of Jesus. Yeah, it won't be popular, but it's a it's a wonderful uh exercise in getting in touch with our true identity in Jesus and not our identity in being cool or pretty or funny or knowledgeable or whatever else.
SPEAKER_03We've listed some of the uh the fears that we might face in evangelism. Um looking at uh the fear of rejection, as we spoke a little bit about already, fear of ruining our relationship with the person, perhaps. Yeah. Or um, you know, them forever stereotyping.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and there is that danger. There really is that danger, and there's no there's no getting around that. Um but one thing I've been thinking quite a bit just this week, even, ha has been I'm very faithless when it comes to um my expectation that people will change. Um there's all sorts of decisions that I make about the future, and I think, oh, I'm boxed in, I can only go in this direction because so and so will never change, and I will never change, and this situation will never change. And I've just I've been very convicted by my faithlessness in that, that act that actually, yeah, there is such a thing as the Holy Spirit, there is such a thing as new life in Christ. Regeneration. There is such a thing as regeneration. And and my friends might reject me. My friend might though become my brother or my sister. And just holding that out in in my in my thinking and in my praying, I think kind of helps with because we we we we don't do evangelism in order to be rejected. You know, some people do. I've I've met people who definitely do evangelism in order to be rejected. They're not the best evangelists. Um but we don't do it like that. We we do it in order to offer life, and there really is, there really is power. The gospel is the power of God for salvation to all who believe. Romans 1 16. And and we need to remind ourselves of that. Rejection might happen, but let's let's try if we can to keep that to one side. Let's not let the fear of rejection or not rejection kind of define everything. Let's let's say, well, that might that might be an offshoot of what I'm doing here, but my goal here is to see this, you know, this person saved and won and transformed in Christ. Um I think that helps with the fear of rejection.
SPEAKER_03Okay, um also the fear of looking foolish.
SPEAKER_02I know all about this. Um, yes, realized many times this fear. And I think it's it's inescapable, really. Um but it's a beautiful thing to come to the world with a wisdom that is not of the world. There are plenty of people out in the world who'll who'll tell you worldly wisdom. And and it's it can be a good thing to bring something that sounds nuts into into discussion. Maybe not in the short term. In the short term, as you as you bring the wisdom of Christ, you know, I I'm really struck that that these days, you know, the wisdom of the world seems to be never invest in a relationship if they're going to demand from you, if you're gonna have to give of yourself to a relationship. Life's too short to kind of spend your time with people that aren't good for you. Just surround yourself with people that are good for you. I think you know, I see this on everyone's Facebook page, you know, it's it's um it's it's everyone's kind of motto, and you know, coming in and and saying no, Jesus Jesus said to love your enemies even, to pray for those who persecute you, to bless them and not and not curse them. And and almost go out of your way to sound foolish in that situation. But if you're if you're a presence in that person's life over any length of time, I think they will see they will see the wisdom over time of the gospel. Um often the gospel seems foolish in short sharp bursts, and it will always seem foolish in short sharp bursts, but as they get to know you and and and those sorts of things, um don't be afraid of feeling foolish in the instant. Um but I think I think the gospel vindicates itself as they see Jesus lived out in your life. So don't be too afraid of feeling foolish, it's gonna happen, but I think in the in the long term there is a wisdom to the gospel that we're gonna do.
SPEAKER_03Paul speaks about it in um he says, you know, God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise.
SPEAKER_02Exactly.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. You know, we're not in it to be wise.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And God was pleased through the foolishness of what we preach to save some. And that again goes to the point that we we we made about rejection. Um we're so faithless that we we kind of think, okay, the point in evangelism is to be rejected. The point in evangelism is to appear foolish. No, the point in evangelism is to offer Jesus, and as a spin-off, we might be rejected. As a spin-off, we might seem foolish, but actually we've got something really powerful that can save, and let's let's remind ourselves of that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Okay, um well, what about the the fear of misrepresenting the gospel? Yeah. I mean, I I you know, I could perhaps go and and say something and then afterwards I think it probably wasn't the best thing to say.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Um and again, that that can be a right fear, you know. It's it's it's right to really want to, you know, speak of Jesus faithfully. Of course, we want to do that. And so it would be wrong not to feel that fear in some ways. What would be wrong would be to allow that fear to stop us. Yeah. Um, you know, Dwight Moody's uh comments when someone pulled him up on misrepresenting Jesus and and his tactics in evangelism, uh Moody said, Um, I much prefer my way of doing evangelism to your way of not doing it. You know which is um which is a great comeback. Um in a sense we're always gonna we're always gonna not quite paint Jesus in completely biblical and faithful colours. Falling short. We'll always be falling short of that. And when I think of, you know, I I either became a Christian or I came back to the Lord on a sermon from Luke 13, which um which now I'm convinced that the preacher got the point completely wrong. I I I don't think he preached the passage correctly. But who am I to argue I'm a Christian today? You know because um because of that preacher preaching that sermon, you know. Um and it's it's the whole it's the whole John 9 thing, you know, the the blind man is asked who made you well and how how did he heal you and all this sort of stuff? He says, dunno. You know, one thing I know, I was blind and now I see. Um and and just our little words about Jesus are incredibly powerful. So let's again remember the power of of the gospel. That little seed that looks weak and pathetic, and what what use could it do? You scatter on the ground and the spirit makes it come alive, and and even our misrepresentations of Christ can be used.
SPEAKER_03And that goes with the with the final thing there, w we've got uh not knowing what to say. Yeah. You know, uh oh, I don't know sort of how to approach that situation, or we could stumble. Whereas I guess saying something of value, even if it's as you say, something very simple, yeah, is better than just leaving them without any contact.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And we get in our heads the thought that you know we we must be sort of polished salesmen of the gospel, and what a horrible thing if we ever were. How how terrible to have the patter so down that you you give the same line to everyone every time and it comes across as as like you're selling insurance. Like you know, far better to stumble and and be very human in your evangelism because you know God has reached us in a very human way. Christ has come in the flesh. Um to, you know, in the in the back and forth of this and that, and someone asks a question and he responds with a story, and you think, well, how do those two things come together? I don't know, but you know. Yeah, it's not about matching up these clinical questions with clinical answers. That would be a horrible kind of evangelism. That's that's what we should really fear in evangelism, is coming across in a in a really polished way. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So perhaps in in summary we could admit that uh yes, we are frightened, you know, we are in in fear at times, yeah. And uh we need to overcome the fear.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. In a sense, the whole Christian life is a fearful reality. I mean, Jesus says, you know, deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me. Gulp, right? Okay. So if if ge if what Jesus called us to wasn't a fearful reality, well, oh well, I think we've got his call wrong, surely. But realizing, okay, he comes with me, realizing that he is my identity, not not all these other little silly identities that I build for myself, but Jesus himself. He he is my fortress and he is fortress enough to go out into the world and to look foolish and to perhaps be rejected and all those other things. But I can get to know him so much better in that fearful place. I can get to know who I am in Jesus so much better in that fearful place. And I can get to know the power of the gospel so much better in that fearful place. Because if it was all about me being completely on top of my game, um then suddenly, you know, it's not really about the power of the gospel to bring life. Suddenly I've done it. But if I'm vulnerable, if I'm weak, if I look sort of naked and kind of with my arms outstretched the way Jesus was naked with arms outstretched the world, there we know the power of Jesus, we know who we are in Christ, we know the power of the gospel to bring life. And it's a beautiful place to be, even though it's a f it's a fearful reality. And like you say, it drives us to our knees, and and that's no bad thing.
SPEAKER_03Okay, well we've had a good go at that. And so we've looked at dirty hands and being involved in the dirty hands and Yeah, and uh we've we've looked at uh trying to look okay and and fearing a red face. Yeah. And the third thing that uh we look at when what stops us from sharing the gospel is that we want to feel okay with ourselves.
SPEAKER_02Um and I suppose the third thing is is feeling like it it's a duty, it's a burden around our neck to evangelise, and and so often, you know, we'll we'll we'll think about how we We don't really want to do it unless we feel like we want to do it. Yeah, I mean I mean Jesus says in Matthew twelve, thirty-four, out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. Um and if if our hearts are not brimful, then we don't we won't particularly feel like evangel evangelising. So that's another thing that stops us, kind of spiritual dryness, really. And we'll think about how to combat that next time.
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