Today on the Evangelist Podcast, we're looking at what's stopping us in sharing the good news.
SPEAKER_00The Evangelist Podcast from Revival. Find out what's new in telling people the good news about God, the world, and you. With Andy Brinkley and Glenn Scrivener.
SPEAKER_04Welcome back to the Evangelist Podcast. This is the show where we encourage you in your witness to your friends, your family, and even complete strangers. How are you, Glenn?
SPEAKER_01I'm doing really well. Really well. Looking forward to what we've got in store in this podcast, definitely.
SPEAKER_04We're looking at uh problems of the head today and uh things that would perhaps stop someone from coming to Christ or issues that wouldn't make sense to their minds.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we've been thinking a lot about sort of uh intellectual questions, I suppose you could you could call them. Um we've just uh come off a big series uh looking at questions that crop up when we talk about uh matters of faith. We've been thinking about atheism for four episodes, and really what we're doing here is is thinking about, well, where does the mind fit into salvation? Where does the place of reason fit um into our evangelism? And uh and I guess we're gonna see that we're gonna see that the mind uh is very much a problem when it comes to evangelism because uh we just can't work our way to God via reason.
SPEAKER_04And let's face it, Glenn, uh sharing our faith isn't the easiest of things to do, is it really?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think fear of evangelism kind of unites Christians and non-Christians. You know, non-Christians are afraid of evangelism and uh but probably not half as much as Christians are afraid of evangelism. And uh so I I think what we should do is just take a take a few episodes to think about what makes it hard. So I I think we'll we'll think about problems of the head, intellectual issues, um also problems of the heart. What about fear? What about spiritual dryness? And also problems with how we see ourselves and how we see the church and how we see Christian life. Yeah, I think there are many things that might stop us from evangelizing. I I just think we should sort of cast some light on those things and and maybe we'll see that actually Jesus shows us a way forward.
SPEAKER_04Uh in this episode, Glenn, we're we're looking at problems of the mind, of the head. Um, but the the God of this world, Satan, has bound the minds of unbelievers, hasn't he? Two Corinthians says, Whose minds the God of this age has blinded who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is in the image of God, should shine on them. For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus' sake. For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. So we're at almost, it seems, a disadvantage already, because unbelievers' minds are blinded.
SPEAKER_01Blinded, yeah, and it's a really scary thing, isn't it? 2 Corinthians 4, verse 4, um it mentions the God of this age, which which I think, you know, Satan calls uh sorry, Jesus calls Satan the prince of this world. I think that's what is going on here. The God of this age, the prince of this world, Satan has blinded the minds of unbelievers. You know, when you see uh a woman in a burqa going down the street, it does us well to think that she is blinded in a in a physical way through that burqa, but there is a deeper spiritual blinding that's even scarier than the burqa. You know, at least in the burqa you can you can escape into your mind and you can kind of be free, even though you're veiled physically, you can kind of escape into your mind. What Paul is talking about in 2 Corinthians 4 is is a blinded mind, which is so scary. You can't climb out of your mind in order to have a good rest and to think about things, you can't kind of you can't escape from that kind of blinding. Um so whatever we think about um the intellect and reason and its place in salvation, we need to see uh that we are up against uh a huge obstacle here.
SPEAKER_04Glenn, how do we balance that with the fact that God has set the eternity in the hearts of men? You know, surely everyone knows that there is a God. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um and certainly surveys say majority of people believe in God. And there you know, Romans one verse uh eighteen.
SPEAKER_01At the end of verse eighteen, it says uh Yeah, the wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made so that men are without excuse. So there are certainly verses like that in the Bible that says, Well, every everyone knows God in that sense.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and I think what what Paul's talking about here in Romans 1, he's saying that God actually confronts us in every aspect of life. Um, Paul in Acts 17 says, In God we live and move and have our being. Um His reality, the reality of of the Father through the Son by the Spirit, presses in on us in every detail of our lives. And and I think it's true to say that on judgment day, there will be no unbeliever who's sort of nudging their neighbor, saying, Who's that one up the up the front? Who's the one there judging us? You know, what right does he have? You know, Jesus Christ is is the one who confronts us in his creation in every way, shape, and form. Um so yeah, there there is that that kind of of knowledge of God, but we need we need to hold that together with uh other verses in the Bible that that says that fallen humanity does not know God. Um In fact, uh Romans one uh keeps going on. Uh Romans one verse twenty-one, it says uh although they knew God, past tense, although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile, and their foolish hearts were darkened, although they claimed to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal men and birds and animals and reptiles. Um And so, you know, that that's talking in the past tense. You know, was there a past tense event in which humanity exchanged the glory of God for for, you know, something lesser and became foolish? Though cla th though they claim to be wise, they became fools. You know, it's it's it's quite Genesis three language, isn't it? They they go after the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and in doing so become fools and and they become fools. Um and so I I I think the the sense in which we know God is is a sense of God is made plain to everybody, and yet we have turned from him, become foolish. We're we're a little bit like a um a school kid who's been listening to their iPod throughout you know their entire maths GCSE, and then they they get to the they get to the final exams and all of a sudden they're confronted with all this algebra and and they say, Well, you know, I didn't know, I didn't know about all this sort of stuff. And what do you say to the kid at that stage? You say, Well, the teacher was telling you constantly, day by day, he was telling you all this stuff, but you chose to turn to other things, lesser things. And I think that's the sense in which God is always revealing himself, but we have chosen to turn away. And and the Apostle Paul uses that language. He says in 2 Corinthians 4, verse 4, that our minds are blinded. In Colossians 1, verse 21, he says we've been alienated from the life of God. We've become enemies in our minds because of our evil behavior. In Romans chapter 8, verse 7, it uh it talks about how uh the sinful mind is hostile to God. Um so the Bible is very, very clear that we we don't actually uh know God not by ourselves, even though he's being revealed to us day after day.
SPEAKER_04So really we're talking about a definition here of we know God in a an external sense, but really to know God really is in a sort of internal personal sense.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. Um So think of how Jesus describes eternal life. In John chapter 17, verse 3, he says, This is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ who you have sent. So Jesus talks about even though we don't know God, and if you go through John's gospel, you see again and again Jesus says, even to guys with Bibles in their hands, he says, actually you guys don't know God because you need to know me. So eternal life is being brought from ignorance into true knowledge of God, and that's the way that people are saved.
SPEAKER_04We also need to look at this or or think of it in the context of evangelism.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Because knowing God, you know, we've got to, if you like, communicate to people who are blinded that it's not just knowing about God, it's knowing Him in a personal relationship way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and how does that happen? Through prayer. Well, yeah, that that's a huge thing to mention, isn't it? You know, if the God of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, then then evangelism is in engaging in spiritual warfare in uh in a huge way. You know, you get to the end of Ephesians six, and Paul talks about putting on the spiritual armour, and you know, one of the bits that we need to put on is is uh the shoes fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. Um and then he and he keeps saying, you know, we've got the the the sword of the spirit which is the word of God as we as we go out, and then he says, you know, we need to be praying constantly. Um and he says, Pray for me, that that I'd be given opportunity, that I'd open my mouth and and and and preach the gospel. So, yeah, for Paul, evangelism is spiritual warfare in a in a massive sense, and and and little old me is not going to open the eyes of the blind. Um, it you know, though it says 2 Corinthians 4, verse 4 says that the God of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, verse 5 says, but we preach Christ crucified, and then verse 6 says, the God who said, Let light shine out of darkness will make his light shine. So I think that's a that's a lovely thing to hold. It's his work. It's his work through the preaching of the gospel. So Paul doesn't doesn't just sort of sit back and wait for God to zap people. Through the preaching of the gospel, but through that preaching, there is almighty power unleashed. And and the God who said, Let light shine out of darkness, the God who said, Let there be light, he can bring spiritual life to those who are blind, who are dead, who are deaf to the gospel. Umly he can do it. So that means we must be prayerful, it means we must preach. And it also means that we need to understand the shape of evangelism. Uh the shape of evangelism is not a ladder of reason that ascends up to heaven. That's not the shape of evangelism. Sometimes people sort of conduct their evangelism as though it is, as though, you know, this unbeliever needs to know this little truth and then that little truth and then that little truth, building higher and higher and higher and higher. Um But that can't be right, can it if if if they simply don't know God, then they can't just sort of build in increments towards God. They need they need revelation from on high. They need to be told it. Um I think that that should really shape um the direction of travel in our evangelism, that it's not helping the unbeliever step by step up to God, but presenting down to the unbeliever the good news of Jesus.
SPEAKER_04So we it's not entirely our responsibility in the sense that it's not solely down to us. No. And it's not the fact that we sit back and God does it all, although I'm trying not to say that, because God does do it all in a way. But you're kind of also balancing those things.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and the way you know, so 2 Corinthians 4 begins, through God's mercy, we have this ministry of giving life. That's the that's the context. It's not even it's not even as though we do fifty percent and God does fifty per cent, nor is it that God does, you know, 95%, we do five percent. It's it's that God adopts us into his life-giving ministry. Um that's that's that's how 2 Corinthians 5 continues. It says 2 Corinthians 5, verse 18. Uh God reconciled us to himself through Christ, and then gave us the ministry of reconciliation. That God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf. So, in a sense, it's entirely God's work, but he's adopted us into his life, so we are his co-workers, which is what 2 Corinthians 6 verse 1 calls us. We are God's fellow workers. So it's it's completely a divine work, but amazingly, we are adopted into that, and we are given something, you know, to do in that whole mix. And what we are given to do is to, well, 2 Corinthians 4, verse 5, preach Jesus Christ as Lord. Or 2 Corinthians 5, verse 20, uh, to make our appeal to people, to implore people on Christ's behalf. That's our part.
SPEAKER_04Okay, so we've got this calling, this mission uh to to be ambassadors for God for Christ, and then or that as we've said already, people are blind or deaf or dead in their sins. And uh if they're really dead, yeah, what use is it proclaiming truth to to a dead person?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, you know, ask Lazarus. Um you know, in in John John eleven, there's there's sort of the archetypal case of that here is a man who is dead, and then the word of Christ comes to him, Lazarus come out, and the dead man came out. Um and that's not just a sort of a a a one-off freak occurrence. Jesus says in John 5, from verse 24 onwards, he says, This is how salvation works. There's a time is coming when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. So actually, all evangelism is like that. All evangelism is like going to the cemetery and say saying, you know, wakey, wakey, rise and shine. Um But when you do that, the resurrection power of Christ is with you. And and and I think that's where we really need to trust in the work of the Holy Spirit. Um I love that you know, Spurgeon said that he used to when he went up to to preach, on every step as he was ascending to the pulpit, on every step, he would say to himself, I believe in the Holy Spirit, I believe in the Holy Spirit, I believe in the Holy Spirit. Because it seems to him like, you know, every every Sunday there he was at the Metropolitan Tabernacle and he was preaching to dead people. And, you know, what's the point? What's the point of preaching to dead people? And that's why he'd remind himself, I believe in the Holy Spirit, I believe in the Holy Spirit, I believe in the Holy Spirit, because Ezekiel chapter thirty-seven what happens when the word of God combines with the Spirit of God's oh it you know raises an army. Dry bones. Out of the dry bones, damn bones, damn bones, them dry bones. Yeah. Now hear the word of the Lord as the song goes. You know, and the word by the Spirit has this new creation power. And so again, I think that that should really give us great confidence. Um the the Holy Spirit's help is promised when we declare the word of the Lord down from on high. His his help is promised. But if we try to build from the bottom up, really I think what the Bible would tell us, what especially the Apostle Paul would tell us, is that's kind of the flesh the trying to reach God, trying to fulfil religious obligations to climb up towards him. Exactly. And we know that truth in when it comes to um salvation by works, don't we? We all know that you can't climb the ladder of works into heaven. But it's exactly the same truth when it comes to reason. You can't get your head into heaven through reason either, through logic, through through step-by-step ascending up there. It's exactly the same thing. Just as you don't try to be good and add to your goodness, and then you get eighty per cent of the way to heaven, and then God says, Oh, I love a trier. I love a triad, Glenn, you come on in, I'll I'll do the extra twenty per cent. All right. We'd never say that when it comes to salvation. I hope we'd never say that when it comes to salvation. But so often, intellectually speaking, we think that way around. Um so that's why evangelism is fundamentally declaration.
SPEAKER_04But isn't doesn't Paul in Acts 17 sort of build upon the knowledge that they already have? Yeah. Well, that's that's that's one argument.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, well, you know, it's it's always always good to to think about that. Acts chapter 17. It's interesting, Acts chapter 17. So yeah, so the so the issue is if evangelism is basically proclaiming truth from on high, why does Paul do what he does in Acts 17? If we just go from verse 17, while Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols. Okay, so first of all, he doesn't think, oh brilliant, they're all spiritually minded. Fantastic. That'll be a great kind of launching pad for my gospel. You know, they've they've got some kind of sense of deity. Brilliant. You know, he doesn't think that. He is incensed by their idolatry. Um so verse 17 he reasoned in the synagogue. Okay, great. Reasoning, that's that's fine, depending on what logic you're using. He reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there. A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, What is this babbler trying to say? Isn't that interesting? So Paul thinks he's reasoning but the cleverest guys in the marketplace, they just say, You're a babbler. Don't understand what you what are you trying to say? Others remarked, He seems to be advocating foreign gods. So they said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection. And they seem to be thinking that Jesus and Anastasia, which is the Greek word for resurrection, are two different gods that Paul's talking about. Oh, he's always going on about Jesus and Anastasia. What's fascinating is that the idea of the resurrection to the Greek mind is so anathema, it's it's so revolting to think that the flesh is going to be raised up again. Every Greek would have said, No, the flesh is a prison for the soul. Can't wait to die, and then we'll get rid of this prison and the soul will float free. And Paul, he doesn't he doesn't say, Yeah, I kind of see where you're coming from. Let me build on that. No, he's just like relentlessly talking about the resurrection of the flesh.
SPEAKER_04But he says about the the altar with the inscription to the unknown god. So he goes around and sees all these idols and then sees the unknown god dedication to. Yeah. And he says, Well, this is the one I'm gonna proclaim to you. So surely he sort of he says, uh, you've missed this one. I'm gonna tell you about this one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, I think you've gotta you've gotta see that in context. Remember verse sixteen, he's already said, he's already been incensed that the city is just full of idols. Okay. And he goes on preaching this, you know, gospel about Jesus and the resurrection. And then, yeah, when they uh ask him to explain himself from verse 22, he gets up and says, Men of Athens, I see that in every way you are very religious, or you could translate that as uh superstitious. I I walked around looking carefully at your objects of worship. I even found an altar with this inscription to an unknown God. Now what you worship as something unknown, I'm gonna proclaim to you. I think what it what he's saying there is, you guys, you know one thing, don't you? There's one thing you guys know, okay, and I'm gonna build on that that piece of knowledge. There's one thing you know, you don't know God.
unknownRight?
SPEAKER_01I think that's I think that's you know, it seems pretty clear to me. That's what he's saying. You know, if there's anything I've learnt from your philosophy, it's that you don't know God. Now, as you try to cover all your bases, and you've got an idol that's dedicated to you know miscellaneous gods that we've missed off the list.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01Well done, everybody. What you worship is unknown. I'm gonna now proclaim to you. And then he tells them a story, which is so interesting about uh about what evangelism is. From verse 24, he says, The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth, and does not live in temples built by human hands. He says this in the midst of all these temples. He's like, let me tell you about who God really is, and he's nothing. He's nothing like what you've you've claimed that he's like. He does then he does then mention, doesn't he, uh their what their poets say in verse twenty eight. He does say, you know, for in God we live and move and have our being, as some of your own poets have said, we are his offspring.
SPEAKER_04But yeah, I I think he kind of gets their knowledge, he he gets uh from their viewpoint, if you like, but then he doesn't build upon their viewpoint, he sort of subverts it. You know, he goes Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. Exactly. We'll think about how that happens in in our next episode. But that's yeah, I think that's exactly what he's doing. And you know, the whole point is from verse 30, he says, In the past God overlooked such ignorance, and now he commands all people everywhere to repent. And then I love I only noticed this yesterday, actually, um, for God has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed, which would have all sounded nuts. It would have sounded nuts to these Athenians. But he just declares it. And then he says about Judgment Day, and then he says, God has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead. Now what's fascinating for me is Paul doesn't give proof for the resurrection of Jesus. He doesn't say, let let me let me explain to you all the reasons why I think Jesus rose from the dead. He just proclaims the resurrection of Jesus and says, that's the proof of judgment day. He doesn't give a proof for resurrection. He says Jesus rose from the dead, that's a fact. You can take it to the bank and it's proof that there's a judgment day. So I I think this idea that what Paul is modelling here is again, you know, kind of climbing the ladder of reason, you know, agreeing with what they agree to and just building on a little bit. I think no. No.
SPEAKER_04And Paul was sort of you know quite an intellectual, he knew his stuff. Yeah. But he doesn't necessarily use that wisdom. Yeah. He just proclaims the truth and goes for it. Reminds me of uh one Corinthians one seventeen, where um he says, For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect. That's kind of what you're saying.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, exactly. And and in one Corinthians one, I mean it's it's really worth meditating on, because here again in Corinth again we've got this Greek culture, and you've got a church full of people who think they're quite clever and they want to buy into the wisdom of the world, and they want to make sure that they are in with all the clever people. And Paul just says, Look, we we preach something that sounds so foolish to the world. Um, one Corinthians one verse eighteen, he says, The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it's wit written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate. Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world did not, through its wisdom, know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. So again we've got that point. You know, the world does not know God through wisdom. So let's not try to give the flesh a helping hand. The world might try to figure out God through wisdom, but God says no, that's that's not the way to know him. What's the way to know him? Preaching, actually. Even though, verse 22, Jews might demand miraculous signs, and Greeks will look for wisdom, nevertheless, we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews, and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. So again, you know, even though Paul says, in front of me when I speak, there are people who are saying, Well, go on, show me a m a miracle and I'll believe. Yeah. Jews are looking for miraculous signs, and and there are people in front of him who are saying, Okay, show me, show me a mathematical equation. You know, they're looking for wisdom. Um and Paul says while while the Jews are looking up into the heavens to to look for a miraculous sign, and while the Greeks are sort of looking down a microscope and saying, Okay, prove it, prove it scientifically to me. Um Paul says, No, I just keep giving them a cross. And and I keep giving them Jesus bloodied and bruised and naked with his arms outstretched to the world, and and that's the power that's gonna save people. So that's a big challenge for for evangelism. Um and we'll think in the next episode about what happens when people people people will want to know wise answers and people will want to ask us questions. How how do we keep on offering the cross and offering the cross of Christ? Um, we'll think about that in the next episode, but but from 1 Corinthians, what we see is that there is a power, there is a huge power to to lifting up the cross of Jesus. That's what the world really needs to hear. I'm reminded of this. Um I I was speaking with um uh an atheist and uh and I asked, you know, what would make him believe in God, and he said, um, if he looked up into the night sky and he saw that written across the night sky was the Ten Commandments, just you know, written out in English, um, you know, across the night sky, then he would believe um that there is there is a God. And and and to be honest, I think that would be quite uh quite a horrible quite a horrible God, really. Um in in in a sense that what he what he imagines, he he thinks that, okay, g there should be some reasonable proof out there that I'm I'm gonna deduce from this reasonable proof who God is. But that would only be a law, you know, that could only ever, you know, be a God who um remains at a distance and asks us to reach him. The kind of God who would do that is the kind of God who just write, you know, the commandments up in up in the heavens and make sure we bow. What about this God? It's actually good news to say no God won't be known in that way because he's not really like that. Let me tell you what he's really like. He's like the God who, while you're staring up into the heavens, he comes down alongside you. He's he's he dives into the pit where you are, he takes on all the all the nonsense, all the mud, all the muck in your life, dives for you, rises again, has his arms outstretched to you. That's the reason why God wants himself to be known in that way through the cross is because that's what he's like. He's not like the God who's just waiting up in heaven, who's written laws in the sky and waiting for you to piece things together. He's actually the God who comes to that's why it's the power of God. It's the power of God because this is what he's like. You know, he's vulnerable, he's got his arms wide open to you. That's why we we just should be obsessed, not with trying to help people up to heaven, but by declaring the God who has come down.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Good. Well, we'll continue this uh discussion next time in uh looking a bit further at uh problems of the head. Uh if you have any comments about today's show or would like to share it, you can just go to the web address revivalmedia.org/slash TEP21. Thanks for listening to the Evangelist Podcast. If you'd like to not ever miss an episode of the Evangelist Podcast, you can sign up via email. It's occurred to us that it may be a lot easier for some people to receive it via email as opposed to you know you may not have a podcasting software, etc. So you can sign up, go to the same web address, revivalmedia.org slash TEP21, and there'll be a sign up page. You can sign up by email. Every time there's a a new episode, we'll send you an email and never miss out. Also, we'd really appreciate a rating and review on iTunes. It helps us to get seen by more people within iTunes. I want to say thank you to BirdBrain two thousand and seven who says really informative and relative to current life. Thank you, Revival, for making this available. Thank you, BirdBrain. Thank you, BirdBrain. I'm sure you're not. So that's very easy. Just go to revivalmedia.org slash iTunes, that should forward you directly to the podcast page on iTunes where you can leave us a review. We'd be very grateful if you could do that. So again, the web address for this episode where you can comment on the specific show, sign up to the podcast via email, just go to simply revivalmedia.org slash tep twenty one.