Today on the Evangelist Podcast we're looking at the topic of evangelism and the church. Should churches put on more evangelistic events or make what we do more evangelistic? Join me, Andy Brinkley, with our evangelist Glenn Scrivener in a moment.
SPEAKER_02The Evangelist Podcast from Revival. Find out what's new in telling people the good news about God, the world, and you. With Andy Brinkley and Glenn Scrivener.
SPEAKER_00How are you, Glenn? I'm doing very well, thank you. Yeah, just uh uh just come back from a meeting about uh some uh mission that's happening uh next year, so that's quite exciting. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Good. And where where were you last week? You were away somewhere.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So I was away um teaching some leaders in UCCF, which is uh sort of a a great student work here in the UK, working with uh universities and colleges, Christian fellowship. And uh so I was yeah, teaching them some stuff about what is the gospel and how to share it and that kind of thing. So that was a great time Thursday, Friday, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Good. Okay, well last time we mentioned briefly about uh the subjects of church and evangelism. So uh we're gonna go into that a little bit more in depth. I looked up some quotes. There's a chap called uh C. Kirk Hadaway wrote a study called Is Evangelistic Activity Related to Church Growth? And he concluded evangelism may be the single most important thing church leaders can do if they want their church to grow. What do you think?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well absolutely, but I I guess the the the question you'd want to sit him down and and get from him is well, what does he mean by evangelism? Because um obviously if people coming to know the Lord is what's going to grow our churches, then yeah, that's that's sort of obviously true, unless we just want to, you know, steal sheep. But um last time I read Luke 15, the angels did not celebrate every time you steal a sheep. Um every time you take someone from another church, I'm not sure there's a party in heaven. I I think probably what what what we're after is new birth. What we're after is sinners repenting. So, yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, we we want our churches to grow uh through evangelistic growth, through people hearing of Christ and trusting him for themselves.
SPEAKER_01Do you do you think that's sort of on the church's agenda um normally? I've got another quote here from Oswald J. Smith. He says, Oh my friends, we are loaded with countless church activities, while the real work of the church, that of evangelising and winning the lost, is almost entirely neglected.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean hard to say about sort of all churches, but um yeah, that that is true of a vast swathe of churches. But we don't want to get the idea that evangelism is one activity among many. You know, as as though it's, you know, well, you know, you've got to keep your buildings correct, and you've got to have your choir practice, and you've got to have, you know, this and this and this and this. Oh, and evangelism. Yeah. As though evangelism is kind of the, you know, even if it's the biggest item on that list, I'm not quite sure that that's the way to think about evangelism and church life.
SPEAKER_01Because it's more it's sort of almost the core, if you like.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's the dry it's the reason to be for the church. If you think of sort of Jesus in in uh uh John 20, you know, he comes to the disciples and he breathes on them and says, Receive the Holy Spirit, and he says, As the Father has sent me, so I am sending you. And we get the word mission from uh that word send. You get it through Latin. That's the missio of the church, is the sending of the church. Um so Jesus doesn't uh doesn't kind of have a church and then say, You know what, I've got a great mission for you. It's Jesus has a mission, and church is his mission organization, um, to the ends of the of the earth. Now that doesn't mean that everything you do uh under the banner of church is sort of an incessant round of of busy evangelism, you know, that that's you know, let's print tracts and let's go out on the streets and all that kind of thing. But it is that everything has the flavour of evangelism to it. Everything has a f flavour of outgoing missionary activity to it. Even the choir practice, even the buildings, even you know. So that evangelism not not just one extra item in the budget or one extra meeting on a on a Tuesday night, um, but yeah, it's the flavour of everything.
SPEAKER_01What do you think then about sort of a church organizing, you know, a pub quiz and testimony or, you know, a barbecue and talk, those types of things which are, if you like, targeted evangelism.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Great a great way of just being a kind of a collecting point for hopefully evangelistic conversations that are going on with members, you know, throughout their lives. As I talk to to neighbors on my street, it's very helpful that we had a a men's event uh recently where I was able to to take a couple of these lads along to an event where, you know, they got to meet others from the church and got sort of drawn closer into church activity. So an event that had evangelism in mind served the ongoing evangelistic work. Um and and hopefully those kinds of events um can do that. And and I think if we're thinking about evangelistic events, I I really think we should think Sunday. Not that we boil everything down to a lowest common denominator on a Sunday at all, I think. But as we meet together and we hear from the Lord and we we have fellowship together, that's the context in which we invite non-Christians to to come into our world, to come over to our place and see things a little bit differently. And I and and you know, if we're looking for evangelistic events, I don't think we need to create any. Um I think those can be very helpful. But on a Sunday we've got this gathering of people um that that is evangelistic, even if the preacher hasn't really thought about outsiders. Even if the prayer when they get up to pray isn't particularly thinking about outsiders, but I but I think it's already and inherently an evangelistic thing, church.
SPEAKER_01You know, I think of a a pastor who uh has to cater for people that are, you know, been in church for thirty, forty years and then other people that have never been to church previously, and you know, it's quite a difficult thing to sort of cater for that.
SPEAKER_00It is, it is, and I and I think I think Christians need to sort of um be more flexible than they are. Certainly Christians ought to be more flexible than we expect non-Christians to be, I think I think, in in lots of ways. But again, I'm not I'm not arguing for being sort of the lowest common denominator and let's only do what's acceptable in the world's eyes. Not at all, not at all. I think 1 Corinthians 14 is gives some helpful principles. You know, you've got their uh Paul is addressing the Corinthians and and it sounds like their services are a bit of a zoo. Everything's going on all at once. And uh and Paul is is saying to them, look, in the congregation publicly, um let's not have all these un uninterpreted tongues. Um, let's make sure it's all understandable for the outsider. Because he says at the end of 1 Corinthians 14, then an outsider will come in, will understand what's going on, and they will fall down in your midst and say God is really among you. It's not saying, okay, let's just be really, really understandable so that somebody comes in and says, Oh yes, now I understand what Christianity is about. It's not that. They understand what it's about, and they fall down and say God's in your midst. So don't do weird stuff that's inexplicable that you know that you just can't understand. I I think I think 1 Corinthians 14 is helpful in that.
SPEAKER_01Yes, we have what some people have called uh seeker sensitive services where people, you know, you're if you like sensitive to uh to non-Christians coming in or or people on the fringe of church. In a sense though, all our services should be seeker sensitive, shouldn't they?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well I think I think they all have the character, just by the nature of the fact that you're gathering together and you're proclaiming Christ, I think that is something that the world needs to hear. I wouldn't bend over as far backwards uh as some churches do in in trying to make everything exactly like the world. Yeah, I mean I I was involved in a church that was very very much Sunday morning is the shopfront window and we want, you know, non-Christians to be there and and it was a church at which probably more than half the congregation were non-Christians. Which I mean, for me as an evangelist, that was terrific. Um, but I think for a lot of the Christians there they felt like, you know, shoulders the wheel trying very hard to keep the show on the road for non-Christians, and then where are they going to get fed? And um So I've I've done a lot of thinking about this and I I I think that there are ways of preaching the gospel powerfully and profoundly um where in 1 Corinthians 14 terms you're not speaking in tongues, but you are speaking in such a way that it is other, it is weird, it is from God, um, and it will make people um think these people are really, really different. And I think that's kind of the balance you're aiming for.
SPEAKER_01So, Glenn, just in summary, uh tell us what is it like for a church to be evangelistically flavoured as opposed to just having one off evangelistic mission or event.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I th I I very often think of one Peter uh in this regard, because I I think um so often when we think of sort of evangelism, we might think that okay, we we club together on a Sunday, and then we get fed by the Word, and then we go out on our individual evangelistic missions, and then we all come back again next Sunday and that and that kind of thing. And and one Peter, especially with its sort of uh emphasis on the priesthood of all believers, that we are together a priesthood and a holy nation, a people belonging to God, so that we may declare the praises of God who called us out of darkness and into his wonderful light. Um, you know, one Peter two uh verses nine to to uh ten I'm I'm thinking of particularly there. So as a priesthood, together, we are meant to go out. Uh we are meant to be this out outgoing body, um, not as individual priests, but as an as as a corporate priesthood. And I think it's wonderful in in one Peter that you see these different gifts. Because so often, whenever you raise these issues about evangelism, people are always saying, Well, you know, I'm I'm not gifted. You know, Glenn, you could sell sand to Arabs and blah blah blah, but I I don't have the gift of the Gab and and all that kind of thing. And I think Peter is really um uh down to earth about this. Uh there are lots of gifts lists in the New Testament, but but 1 Peter 4, uh he basically gives you two big umbrellas uh under which you could sort of put every other gift. Here are the two umbrellas. Uh Peter says uh 1 Peter 4, verse 10, each of you should use whatever gift you've received to serve others as faithful stewards of God's grace in its various forms. If you speak, you should do so as one speaking the very words of God. If you serve, you should do so with the strength that God provides, so that in all things God may be praised. So you got those two different uh umbrellas, you've got speaking and serving. And the word for serving is very much a a word that we get deacon from. It's the it's a word for hospitality, that kind of service, the service around tables. So I think what Peter's got in mind here is a really attractive kind of mission. You've got people are good with words and people who are good with hospitality. And Peter's saying, what would happen if you club together in the work of mission? And I think what would happen is you'd get what mission looked like in the early church. What did mission look like in the early church? Well, Jesus calls Levi and says, you know, come follow me, and that night Levi puts on a big meal and invites lots of people, and he invites a very good speaker, his name is Jesus, and you know, Jesus gives the talk, and um and that's that's that's so often how Jesus does mission, it's so often how we read of of mission happening in the early church. Uh and and I think it's that wonderful sense of being corporately together and using different gifts, because some people are good with words and some people are good with their hands, and um but everyone is working together in this missionary activity of winning disciples for Jesus.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so it's uh a team ministry, but we're we're all on the at the work of evangelism, if you like.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and even if your gifting is not specifically with words, I mean Peter will say in 1 Peter 3 verse 15, everyone's got there's a place for everyone to use words, you know. If someone asks you a question about your faith, be prepared to give an answer. So everyone needs to use words at some point, but some people aren't particularly use you know good with words, but that doesn't mean that they are not useful in God's mission to the world. And what God's mission to the world still is this this proclamation of the gospel. So we just need to get creative about ways of I don't know, opening up tables, opening up houses, um and drawing people under the sound of the word.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, great. So, Glenn, uh, what have you got on your calendar um this coming period?
SPEAKER_00Oh, this next little bit. Um preaching up in Wednesbury. Uh John Wesley actually um got pelted with all sorts of garbage and stuff up in Wednesbury. So I'm I'm preaching there on Sunday. Take a coat. Take a coat, take an umbrella. And uh and uh yeah, getting ready for some other teaching next week.
SPEAKER_01Okay, thanks, Glenn. Thanks for listening to the Evangelist Podcast. Our website is revivalmedia.org, and to get to this episode and show notes directly where you can comment on this specific show, just go to revivalmedia.org slash TEP5.