In this third episode of the Evangelist Podcast, we discuss ways of talking to strangers about Jesus.
SPEAKER_00The Evangelist Podcast from Revival. Find out what's new in telling people the good news about God, the world, and you. With Andy Brinkley and Glenn Scrivener.
SPEAKER_02Welcome to the Evangelist Podcast. I'm Andy Brinkley. I'm Glenn Scrivener. We've not done too bad so far, Glenn. 600 downloads for the first episodes. Wow. That's pretty good. And we've got our first listener question. John B. Yeah. On your website. It says, Good show. Would you consider including your sermons in the podcast feed or doing a separate podcast feed for sermons and talks? Okay. And uh so we've been talking about that, and we think probably it's best to do a separate podcast feed for those watch this space. Okay.
SPEAKER_01We would definitely consider that.
SPEAKER_02So uh do you have a good Easter, Glenn? Great Easter.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was up in uh Leeds at uh City Evangelical Church uh over the Easter week and uh and they just really took advantage of the Easter time to to hold a mission and just got their their members uh very much on board with uh inviting friends along and pretty much just did what they would ordinarily do over an Easter weekend, but turned everything really in in into a sort of an invitational event. So on the the Morty Thursday we did a uh a kind of an evening about suffering, talking about broken lives and broken worlds, what does Jesus have to say into the midst of it? And I guess, you know, as you're thinking about Mordy Thursday and you're thinking about uh Jesus breaking bread and and being in their midst and and about to suffer for them, uh that was sort of the opportunity to talk about God and suffering and that kind of thing. So that was that was a great uh event, and they did indeed bring friends, and uh so that was good. And then Good Friday, we had a a great uh all age service, and uh perhaps one of the links we can uh go to is is sort of a a little song and a game that I've uh written uh in order to teach uh Gethsemane. It's called Drink Up Drink Up the Poison Cup. It's it's very much like um uh the game Pasta Parcel.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01Only in this game of Pasta Parcel you do not want to be left with the parcel when the music stops. Uh basically you you sort of you make up this sort of poisoned cup full of uh soy sauce and fish sauce and garlic and you stir it in with pilchards and all this sort of thing. And uh at every point you get the kids to sniff it and they oh they they absolutely hate it. And and then you teach them the song Drink Up, drink up the poison cup. It's full of gunk and it's full of junk, but without doubt it must be drunk. And they sort of chant this and they pass the poison cup between them, and then the music stops, and usually the child bursts into tears immediately. Um it's not it's not quite that bad, but they they really don't want to drink. But then somebody steps in at the last minute and says, No, wait, I will do it. You know.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Are they pre-organized, are they?
SPEAKER_01That is that is pre-organised. Although a friend of mine did it down in Plymouth, and he said that the music stopped with this uh one little boy, I think he was eight years old, and his dad actually volunteered and drank down this horrible mixture. Oh so that was that you know, it's a a good way of teaching, substitution, really a good way of teaching.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Jesus drinking the cup for us. So that was Good Friday, and then uh Good Friday evening, uh did some youth events. Um they get in uh people from the from the local area, and that's um a great little outreach, and and uh had a good time then Saturday uh fair, just uh mixing in with people, and then on Sunday morning, Easter Sunday, what a great time to have an evangelistic service and um preach there. So it was a wonderful Easter, yeah. Yeah, excellent.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we we had a good Easter and I went up to my brother's in Norfolk. Yeah. It's my son's birthday coming up, and uh as a treat he wanted to go and see his cousins, so uh we went up there on the Easter Monday and had a nice time, but uh we broke down on the way on one of the trips that we went on, the day trips, and uh we had to be rescued by a breakdown company. It's funny because uh my my brother's a minister there in Norfolk, and uh we got talking and we were going along a particular stretch, and my brother said, Oh, you know, did you hear about that there was a f a fatal accident along here? And he he'd heard of it, you know, and he said uh he said, Oh yeah, I heard about that, and they they talked about it for a bit. But he said, It really makes you think about what's valuable in life. Mmm. And I thought, great opportunity, great opening, you know. Yeah. And uh after that, you know, it's always afterwards that you think of uh better things to say. Always. What would you say in that situation?
SPEAKER_01I I think I've sort of changed my mind on these things. I used to think that evangelism was all about kind of crowbarring really witty sayings into a conversation. So if you're if you're uh you know discussing the offside rule, you can suddenly turn that into a proclamation of Christ our last defender. Or you know, like all these clever little ways of turning a conversation on the on the spot. But I don't know, I I get paid to think about these things and I'm rubbish at them. So some people are good at them, but but I think we need to be okay with the clumsiness of a conversation, and in those sorts of situations just saying, Oh, do you go to church yourself? Or oh, do you have a faith yourself? Or or even you know, the big, you know, oh what do you think of Jesus then?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And always when you mention Jesus, it's like a sack of rocks on the on the dinner table, isn't it? When you when you bring Jesus in. But I think we can try and be too finest, and we can try and be too uh too clever about it sometimes.
SPEAKER_02And sometimes just you have a faith. Yeah. Just gotta step out and take the opportunity.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02However clumsy.
SPEAKER_01Are you a Christian? I found myself saying to one guy, I really think you should become a Christian. Which like you don't read about that in in the books. That doesn't sound very clever, but uh well, it led it led to a conversation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. I remember one one of the very first times I went on on the streets to talk to people about the Lord. We had done some seminars beforehand and talking about evangelism and things, and uh I must have been about fifteen or so. I ended up walking up to this chap, he obviously had a different language as his mother tongue. I said, Oh, do you mind if I talk to you for a minute? And he says, No, no, fine. So I looked down and I suddenly thought, help, what do I do now? So I had a Bible I opened my Bible in front of him, and I was thinking, right, where shall I go? I wasn't greatly prepared, but uh as soon as he saw me open the Bible, he put up his hand, he said, Ah, no, no, no, no, and walked away. And uh I had a strange feeling of sort of both regret and relief that that had happened, but uh it can be quite a frightening thing to do.
SPEAKER_01But I've got a more cringeworthy story. I I was um I was uh um doing a bit of sort of I don't like calling it cold contact evangelism because I don't think it has to be cold. Um I think I think you can be warm, I think you can be friendly, I think you can be loving in the way that you share, even if you've just met them. So sometimes I I call it sort of first contact evangelism. But I was doing some of that in South London once, and I came across this guy, and and actually quite often you come across people, especially when you're doing street evangelism, uh, who say I don't speak English. My next question is always, Oh, how long have you been in this country? And then they've got quite good English actually to tell you, yeah, I've been here for three years and I'm working in that shop over there, and blah blah blah. But uh I got talking to this one guy, he said I don't speak English, and he really didn't speak English. He he said I speak Aramaic. And I said, Ah, it's the language of Jesus, and I think he just about understood that. And then I don't know where this came from, it's the stupidest idea I've ever had, but I said, I know one phrase in Aramaic, and probably many of our listeners know one phrase in Aramaic. Didn't Jesus say Eloi Eloi Lama Sarkani? Which means, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? So I thought I'd share this word from the cross with this guy, and I have no it like the conversation ended pretty quickly after that. And I'm just imagining the conversation he would have had with his family afterwards. You know, I met this Christian and all he said was, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? So you're not talking to an expert in whatever it means.
SPEAKER_02But you know, you have a go. You have a go, don't you? What would be an opening question as you go up to somebody maybe at a bus stop or something?
SPEAKER_01Just I was always taught kind of through well, quite soon after I became a Christian, um, a a friend of mine who was quite into street evangelism got me into it, and and he taught me three questions that I I haven't ever really gotten beyond. The three questions were um who do you think Jesus is? Why do you think he came? And the third one he taught me was um if you were to die tonight and God asked you, Why should I let you into my heaven, what would you respond? And and the logic of the whole thing is basically, who is Jesus is a question that hopefully lots of people can answer. And if they can't, well, it gets you into a great conversation. But a lot of people can say, Oh, he's the son of God, or they might say he's a prophet of God, perhaps if they're Muslim or something. But then um but then asking, well, why did he come kind of narrows down the conversation more, and if people don't know that you get to explain what the cross is. And then sort of uh people from a more Catholic background might know why he came, he came to die for our sins. But you know, if you stood before God and he asked, Why should I let you into my heaven, what would you respond? And that gets you into sort of more gospel issues at that point. So I mean those those have been sort of three questions that I've had in the back of my mind quite often when I've done um street evangelism. But but just getting Jesus out there and focusing the conversation on him, who is he, I think that's key in all forms of evangelism, especially um first contact evangelism.
SPEAKER_02Do you do you have sort of any favourite leaflets or tracts or anything that you have used?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean I I really like Roger Carswell's tracts up at um tenofos.com. They attractively produce them and they're quite thorough gospel explanations, but but without jargon, and they they do a good job, I think.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and they help if uh if you do mess things up a bit, then uh you can sort of uh think, well, at least they've got something that's coherent and uh maybe even a contact address on on the back.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and the best thing to the best thing to do really isn't to invite them to church. Um because you know the reason to do street evangelism is not to go behind the back of church or or anything like that. It's it's as church we we proclaim Christ in the in the public space. At all points, I'd encourage people if they're involved in first contact evangelism to do it with church and through church and for church. We're not out in the streets because we think we know better than church, because church is God's idea and it's his it's his evangelistic strategy.
SPEAKER_02And what about uh with those that are you're a bit more au fay with, uh like your workmates or your neighbours or whatever? Um what how would you sort of approach that with it with a little bit more relationship than uh just first contact?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think um I think if they're willing to have a conversation with you and and and if something's come up in the office or something's come up over the dinner table and you have that relationship, I I really think saying, listen, can I can I take five minutes to explain to you what the Christian faith is? Because I think I I think once I've taken that opportunity you'll see how this issue fits into the gospel story um at large. And so I'd I'd quite often beg people's indulgence to say, actually can we just hit pause and then let's let's go to 30,000 feet and let's get the bird's eye view. And of course then you want to teach them 3, 2, 1, don't you? That's the that's anyway. Or whatever, whatever, you know, whatever outline you wanna you want to give. But tell the tell the gospel story every chance you get, I I think. And and and I I think if people are genuinely interested in having a conversation with you, they won't mind you taking five minutes to to actually pull back and tell the story. And if they're not willing to go with you for that, then probably whatever other conversation you have won't go places either. So I I yeah, I I quite often say, let's hit pause and let's let me give you the big picture. Or let's, in a sense, hit pause and let me tell you my story. This is this is why I I um you know, I'm a Christian. Again, this is this is kind of back to the issue of we think we need to be clever, we think we need to, you know, somebody's having a a discussion about the European Union and I need to know how to bridge from that into a discussion of substitutionary atonement or something, you know. If something about faith schools comes up and and people, oh, you know, what do you believe about faith schools? I I think you can buy yourself a lot of time and I think you'll you'll progress the conversation a lot more fruitfully if you say, Well, can I just tell you what what my faith is? And sort of do it that way. Um some other sort of sentences up up my sleeve that I like to have is sentences like, Well, you know, that's what I love about Jesus. You know, so say we're in a conversation, we're talking about hypocrisy or something, and you know, take a breath and say, Well, that's what I love about Jesus. You know, when he he was on trial in, you know, four different courts six different times, no one could find any any guilt or any, you know. He's like Teflon, nothing sticks to him. This Jesus. That's what I love about Jesus. Or that's that's what I love about my church. So I don't know, you you're talking about uh your your brother's family life has just sort of fallen apart and and no one seems to be helping, and and and you say that's what I love about my church, that actually when we were f having trouble making ends meet, actually they really stepped up and cooked meals for us and helped us out in in these different ways. Talking up church again is is I think is is quite important in evangelism. Um that's what I love about Jesus, that's what I love about church, or that's what I love about the Christian life, knowing my forgiveness, or what you know, whatever. And again, with all these with all these sentences, um it's not really about having a pat answer or having a a fixed way of finishing that sentence. Because if you don't have an authentic, heartfelt way of finishing that sentence, then it's just you know, it's just a technique, and we we're not salesmen, you know, we're not we we don't have a pattern, we're not trying to sell anybody insurance or anything. So it it it must be out of the overflow of the heart. But if we can answer questions like that's what I love about Jesus, that's what I love about my church, that's what I love about the Christian life, then hopefully um these things will come up more organically in conversation. And and the other thing to say about that is is if we're not talking in this kind of way to other Christians we'll never talk in this kind of way to non-Christians. You know, so often we we worry about, oh I'm not sure I can have a conversation about Jesus with non-Christians, and yet Sunday by Sunday with with God's people we're not actually talking about Jesus with other people. I and I I think if in our churches we are talking in these sorts of terms, that's what I love about Jesus, that's what I love about my church. I think then that will stir our hearts all the more, and it will mean that as we're talking to non-Christians, it will a a lot more authentically overflow from the mouth. Um, when our hearts are more full of these things. So is it worth it? Oh, it's totally worth it. In terms of, you know, street evangelism, I've I've seen people come to trust in Jesus on the streets. I've prayed with people, I prayed with one guy in KFC to become a Christian. Um, prayed with another guy outside Pizza Hut to become a Christian, guys guys who you know, we we've had these kinds of conversations with. Um and and it's sowing seeds as well, seeds that you might not see bear fruit yourself. Um, but down the down the track, who knows who the Lord's got in mind to to water that seed, and who knows what kind of fruit in the future. No, it's totally worth it. The seed this that's that's what's great about the seed analogy that Jesus gave us. Seeds look pathetic, they look stupid, they look weak. And you throw them out on onto this path or onto the soil, and you think, what's that gonna do? That's gonna do nothing. And you come back tomorrow, and where's the fruit? You come back the next day, where's the fruit? You come back the next day, where's the fruit? No, it's a long-term work, it's a weak looking work, it's a vulnerable kind of work. But actually, what's more powerful than a seed? You know, you look at that, you look at that acorn, and that that acorn can can split stone slabs, actually. So what we've got, it looks our little words, our weak, feeble, faltering words, they look stupid. But this is the way Jesus grows the kingdom. It's it's very, very powerful. So that that would be my word of encouragement. As stupid as it looks, and as weak looking and and as weak as it feels, this is Jesus' way of growing the kingdom.
SPEAKER_02So, Glenn, tell us what you're facing this current week. Are you uh off speaking or are you actually having a writing week or yeah, a bit more bit more writing?
SPEAKER_01So um uh preaching on Sunday here in Eastbourne, so sort of doing a bit of uh prep for that. Next week, at the end of next week, I'm doing a sort of a student conference. I haven't really started to look at that, so I'm I should probably um start thinking about what I'm gonna say Thursday, Friday of next week. But um, but yeah, I need to get ahead on on 321 the book. So um yeah, writing that at the moment. Getting your head down.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Okay, well uh next week we're gonna be talking about the history of this organization, uh Revival, or the Hour of Revival Evangelistic Association, as it's all total. And uh we'll have Ian Milmine in to talk with us. Again, thanks for listening to the Evangelist Podcast. You can catch up with us on our website, revivalmedia.org, and get to this episode and show notes directly, where you can leave a comment if you like on this particular show. Just go to revivalmedia.org slash T E P three.