Whatever team you love, I love tea.
SPEAKER_02Dylan Mulvaney had a performance of a caricature of femininity. Kid Rock has a performance of a caricature of masculinity.
SPEAKER_04Let me uh say something to all you and be as clear and concise as possible.
SPEAKER_03I wanted Bigfoot to be real for sure. Just like I want Jesus to be real. Yep.
SPEAKER_02Hi, I'm Glenn from Speak Life. We'd like to see all things through the lens of Jesus, including the changing landscape of faith conversations that are happening in late modernity in the West. And uh we've featured Joe Rogan on this channel before, and uh the ways in which the faith conversations that he's having are changing massively. He used to be the sort of person who says, What's that? You're into nonsense? Hit the brakes. Aren't you grown adults? Like you guys are you're into nonsense? He's gone from thinking of Christian faith as nonsense to to saying We need Jesus. Is this a bellwether for the different kinds of faith conversations that are happening? Now we commented on the Joe Rogan experience in which Joe Rogan said we need Jesus to come back soon. And since then he's had a conversation with a number of different people where he's mentioned faith or they've mentioned faith and he's responded. Kid Rock is one such episode, episode 2106, and right at the end of a three-hour, 27-minute conversation, they speak about faith and Jesus, and he says interesting things. Now, this was brought to my attention uh on the sidebar of YouTube by a whole bunch of Christian channels that were saying, Isn't it interesting that Joe Rogan seems a lot more open to faith? Yeah, that is interesting. But then a lot of different people have focused on different aspects of this podcast conversation. And um certainly there's been a lot of people on the left who have focused on Kid Rock and his very hawkish um pro Hiroshima Nagasaki comments uh about uh Palestine and um bombing them and uh seeming seemingly callous about civilian deaths there. Um that is very much uh noteworthy as a topic of conversation. Joe Rogan himself and his organization have put up a whole bunch of clips about a third topic of conversation that they had about Dylan Malvaney and Bud Light and trans issues and the way in which Kid Rock took an AR-15 to a whole bunch of Bud Lights and really set the culture wars even more on fire than they happened to be. Now, on all three of those issues, um, you've got some interesting realignments happening between left and right and conservative, progressive, Christian, and non-Christian. And I just want to take us through those three issues and notice the ways in which the conversation is changing and people are changing, and the old fault lines are no longer the current fault lines. So, really, in order in this conversation, they they talk about the culture wars, they talk about um current wars, and then they talk about spiritual wars, you might you might say. Um, I'm a preacher, I've got to come up with uh some tortuous kind of three-point uh outlines. And I want to bring this into conversation with Aaron Wren, who wrote an influential article last year talking about the the three worlds of evangelicalism and the ways in which things have changed. And he charts a kind of a timeline that leads up to 1994, and he calls that positive world for evangelical Christians in the United States. A time in which, you know, the average American kind of liked having a Christian neighbor. They were probably a little bit Ned Flanders-ish, but it was a net gain to be a Christian. There was some kind of cultural cachet that came along with being a Christian, and then from 1994 to 2014, there's kind of neutral world in which there are some good, some bad things about being a Christian. And now, since 2014, Aaron Wren says we are living in a negative world, act accordingly. And there are parts of that analysis that I agree with, and there are parts that I don't agree with. One thing that I do agree with is that things have changed, and what had been thought of as a positive about Christians is no longer thought of as positives about Christians. But it might not be the case that everything is negative and challenging now, nor that everything in 1993 was positive and a bed of roses. One thing that absolutely needs to be revised though, is any kind of very low-resolution thumbnail sketch of left and right as being the liberal, progressive freedom lovers versus the conservative moralistic types. Now, alongside that timeline of the three worlds comes a critique from Aaron Wren and others of Christians who still have the same strategy for reaching America that they used to in 1990. And he's saying the world has changed and our strategies need to change as well. And one of the things that has come under criticism is this idea of third-wayism, you know, as though there's the right wingers and there's the left wingers, but the people of the kingdom are above it all. And I can hear that criticism. Um, it does sound like you're just being a centrist dad and you're smug and you're just saying a pox on both your houses. I'm above the fray, I'm neither conservative nor progressive, I'm neither Republican nor Democrat, I don't vote for the elephant or the donkey, I vote Jesus for president, right? And I can understand how that can feel tiresome to people if you suspect there's a whole lot of cowardice in that or naivety, um, or just a desire not really to reach out, or you perceive in that that really you say you're above the fray, but actually you're a soft leftist and and you kind of you nudge left, but you punch right. And these are all the sorts of criticisms that people are having of anyone who, you know, let's name names, anyone who is in the tradition of Tim Keller and trying to reach out to late modernity and trying to be persuasive to both sides of the aisle. There comes a suspicion that such people um are really they're they're not above it all, actually. Um that they they have picked aside to some degree, and that they are either too naive or too cowardly um to really grasp the nettle on some of the major cultural issues of the day and take aside because the Bible takes a side on some of these hot button issues. Uh so that's the kind of the critique, and the critique is that there are third-way people who feel that they are above the fray, and there are a whole bunch of Christians who are saying the time for neutrality is over. And on some of these issues at least, Christians need to pick a side and firmly pick a side, and we need to win the culture war over certain different battles. Um so we'll get into that because the first issue that Kid Rock and Joe Rogan kind of talk about is a culture war issue that actually finds Kid Rock, a Nashville country and Western singer, um, a massive MAGA guy, massive friend of Donald Trump, very much of that tribe. He is finding like incredible synergy with Joe Rogan, who has always been someone very much on the left of things and uh and a liberal. Um, but what they're both identifying is there is wokeness, and that wokeness must be resisted. So, what we're gonna see in this conversation is Kid Rock and Joe Rogan finding agreement on one culture war issue, then they're gonna find disagreement on the current war issue, and they're gonna they're gonna find a measure of agreement again on the spiritual war issue. Uh, but before we do anything else, we need to figure out who Kid Rock is, and uh this is an education for me. I went to New Country Music uh to listen to his top 20 songs, and uh I was met by uh this song called Picture.
SPEAKER_05Living my life in a slow hell. Different girl every night at the hotel.
SPEAKER_02Living my life in a slow hell every night, a new girl in the hotel. Um, this is this is Kid Rock, country music, and uh, here are his song titles, Picture, Only God Knows Why, All Summer Long, Born Free, Cowboy, Redneck Paradise, American Badass, Bowitaba, or whatever that is, uh, Johnny Cash, Podunk, and and on it goes. And and immediately you see that the example of Kid Rock puts a lie to any low-resolution thumbnail sketch of left-right divides. If you think that in the framework of the prodigal son, let's say, that everyone on the left of politics is basically like the prodigal son who's running far from home into the far country to squander the wealth with prostitutes, while the elder brother does he represent like political conservatives? Um, and therefore the elder brother is the moralist, and the younger brother is the libertine. Now, it is true, I think, that there have been times I've I've certainly heard Tim Keller's sermons back in the day, in which he is contextualizing to New York City and saying, look, you might have left the Midwest or you might have left the South and come to Manhattan, and so you kind of left, I don't know, Elder Brotherland, and you've come into the far country of Manhattan. If you can make it there, you'll make it anywhere. Is that the far country? And and I've definitely heard um back in the day, uh an early sort of 2000s kind of framing of the Prodigal Sun as you know what, kind of right wingers and conservatives are much more like the elder brother, and left wingers are far more like the libertine younger son. Thing is, like like recently and before Tim Keller's death, he was not saying that at all. But if you were frozen in 2008 and you were thinking in prodigal god terms about older brother, younger brother, right wing, left wing, then the example of Kid Rock absolutely smashes that paradigm, doesn't it? Because he's he's a libertine right winger, right? And he's incredibly representative of a whole bunch of of not just MAGA people, but but certainly MAGA people, um, who, you know, might have the label of evangelical, but might never go to church, and might not be pinned down to either church or a certain morality. And on the other hand, isn't it true that sometimes those on the left can be the most moralizing? And certainly on the left, there is a progressive vision for where we want to get culture to, and the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice, and you don't want to be on the wrong side of history, do you? And therefore, there's a kind of a moral policeman character to some forms of left-wing authoritarianism. So who is the elder brother who is the younger brother? Sometimes the elder brother moralist is incredibly left-wing. And sometimes the younger brother libertine is incredibly right wing. And if Aaron Wren is helping us to um be far more nuanced in our drawing of political lines and in our mapping of the religious and cultural terrain, then that is a very good thing. Because I think Kid Rock shows us the example of a kind of a younger brother right winger. And if that monkeys with our kind of religious and cultural paradigm, that's a really good thing. And what we'll see here is Kid Rock and Joe Rogan finding real common ground when they see the woke having gone too far. Because actually, at the end of the day, they're both younger brother types. It's just that Kid Rock is a right-wing younger brother, and Joe Rogan has traditionally been a left-wing younger brother, but when they both encounter the elder brother of, you know, let's call it wokeism or whatever it is, that authoritarian moralistic vision that's that's invading everything from sports to your own beer purchases, they're just gonna kick against that. And so left and right find massive agreement in pushing back against the overreach of the woke, as they say. And so this is what happened on the Joe Rogan experience. So, what's it like being the dude who took out Bud Light?
SPEAKER_04Let's get right to it. Let's get right to it. We were gonna bring it from the case engineer for you. Switch sunglasses. Fuck, I'll drink it. I don't give it a two kinds of beer in this world, cold and free. I like them both. Um breaks. Man, I was just having fun, to be honest with you. I mean, I was I was pissed. Like, you know, but it wasn't like it was gonna wreck my day, yet alone my life. I was just kind of like, what the f are they doing?
SPEAKER_03Well, you with a straw that broke the camel's back.
SPEAKER_02Do you know what they're talking about? They're talking about Bud Lights asking Dylan Mulvaney, who's a TikTok influencer, to advertise Bud Lights during March Madness, which is a basketball competition in the States. And let's let's have a look at Dylan Mulvaney.
SPEAKER_00Hi! Impressive carrying skills, right? I got some Bud Lights for us. So, I kept hearing about this thing called March Madness, and I thought we were all just having a hectic month, but it turns out it has something to do with sports. And I'm not sure exactly which sport, but either way, it's a comment to celebrate. This month I celebrated my day 365 of womanhood, and Bud Light sent me possibly the best gift ever: a can with my face on it. Check out my Instagram story to see how you can enjoy March Madness with Bud Light and maybe win some money too. Love ya! Cheers! Go team. Whatever team you love, I love too. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Love ya. Okay, break a leg.
SPEAKER_02So, with a lot of charisma, Dylan Mulvaney is performing a kind of femininity, and that's been the shtick. Uh, and Dylan Mulvaney has gotten like 13 million TikTok followers or something huge, okay. So there's a lot of love for Dylan Mulvaney, and I can see why. Because there's a lot of charisma and there's a lot to like. Um, Kid Rock doesn't like it, but but I like, I like this um warmth, okay, and and this impish smile. But if I was gonna critique Dylan Mulvaney, it would not be the Kid Rock thing, but it but it would be um why do you get to appropriate femininity and redefine womanhood by acting as a woman and acting as a a certain caricature of a woman? Um I I think that that that is a kind of an appropriation of gender that that is inappropriate and and should not be done, okay? Um and so I'm gonna say it that way. I'm not gonna get out an AR-15 and shoot anything up, but that that is what Kid Rock did. Kid Rock angered by the fact that Bud Light was bringing a kind of a woke kind of moralism into just the joy of having a beer. He got angry and so he did this.
SPEAKER_04Grandpa's feeling a little frisky today. Let me uh say something to all you and be as clear and concise as possible.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Now what's interesting is that Dylan Mulvaney had a performance of a caricature femininity, Kid Rock has a performance of a caricature masculinity, really. And um, there's clearly an appetite for this because this then went viral, and Kid Rock became the face of this kind of protest against Bud Light, and there has been uh a boycott of Bud Light, and their sales have absolutely tanked, and I think they will think very carefully before going anywhere near these kinds of issues again in their campaigns.
SPEAKER_01Hi folks, it's Thomas Thoroughgood here, media producer at Speak Life. You might recognise my voice as the guy who does the filler bits on the podcast. It's part of my job to think of how we can include you more in the work of Speak Life and bring you behind the scenes, if you will. And so we have a very exciting thing called the Speak Life Discord server. It's an online platform where you can interact with other Speak Life supporters and the Speak Life team. We have bonus content, creative theological discussion, and lots of fun along the way. So if you want to join that, you can just go to speaklife.org.uk forward slash give. Okay, back to the podcast.
SPEAKER_02But is Kid Rock very reflective about his you know gender critical theories? Or like is this coming from a kind of a pro-woman stance in him? It's not really, it's coming from he is a younger brother and he is just sick and tired of being told what to do and what to think, and Joe Rogan is the same. And there is a reaching across the aisle massively. Younger brothers, whether they be temperamentally right wing or temperamentally left wing, whether they've grown up in a red state or a blue state, they are reaching across the aisle and finding huge solidarity against what they see as a woke authoritarianism. And the big narrative that kind of unites Kid Rock and Joe Rogan is the freedom narrative, right? This is America, it's a free country, you can do what you like, but don't shove it down my throat. Um he says this.
SPEAKER_04Only time I've been around transgender people is like some crazy club like in Miami or New York back in the day. And gotta say, fun. It was rare. Yeah, but I mean you still have those clubs where they were and be a fing blast. No big deal. Like if this America, freedom. If you want to fing be that, go ahead. Like, I'll exist with you in society. Yeah, probably not getting the dinner invite. But but you know, if you're out and about, like we can both shop in Walmart. I'm not gonna freak out. If you're not fing with me, I'm not f with you.
SPEAKER_03No matter who you are. And that's how it should be. Yeah, pretty much. That's how it should be. Yeah, you should be able to do whatever you want. But when you want to compete as a woman or you want to start, you know, if you're a 50-year-old man, you want to compete against young girls, which is what's going on in Canada.
SPEAKER_02Okay, and and this is where Joe Rogan goes. And and so where they find commonality is that the freedom narrative is king here. Joe Rogan additionally has some issues about well, aren't there female spaces that we ought to protect, like female sports, which is a big area of interest for Joe Rogan. But there are other female spaces as well. Obviously, there's changing rooms and there's female prisons and there's rape crisis centers as well as female sports. But that that is where the kind of the ideological issues come up. But at the end of the day, for the Joe Rogans and especially for the Kid Rocks of this world, it's a gut level. This is America, this is a free country. And and that that is a very strong movement. Very strong. And it is at loggerheads with the progress narrative. The freedom narrative and the progress narrative, these are the sixth and seventh values that I talk about in The Air We Breathe. The progress narrative is that the arc of the moral universe is long at it bends towards justice, and therefore there is a reforming zeal and a righteousness to a generation that wants to like reform ourselves of the evils of the past and march towards a better tomorrow. And that means we we need to have a slow march through the institutions and we need to make them righteous, right? And and so this is the clash. And in an election year in the United States, what are we seeing? Far deeper than anything about Republicans and Democrats. What we're seeing is the freedom narrative and the progress narrative, and which will win. And around the world, there has been a lot of reaction against the progress narrative from people who don't necessarily disagree with the same values that the progress people have, but they just they hate them being shoved down your throat. And in the last 10 years, you can think of any number of referenda that have been held in countries around the world where essentially what was up for debate was, would you like to be one of the good people or are you going to vote no? And many, many times countries have voted no. And you can imagine Kid Rock kind of adding some expletives to that. Um if it's going to be framed as there are the good people over here, or are you gonna vote no? Huh. People is people just start to say, I'm just gonna vote no. And why is that? Because we've got a very individualized sense of freedom that is reacting against a very authoritarian sense of progress. But that's one of the realignments that's kind of happening in the world today. But another realignment is over this issue of a current war. And as the conversation got onto the subject of Israel and Gaza, actually we had Joe Rogan talking in far more just terms, and Kid Rock speaking in far more libertarian terms. Let's let's see.
SPEAKER_03If you lived in Gaza, you would be convinced that it's the end of the world. Right? Because it is the end of the world in one place. In that spot, it's the end of the world. But where you are, it's not. And you gotta look at it that way.
SPEAKER_04And when I look at it that way, I'm like the only wars we won were the most brutal motherfucking. Which I don't disagree with what Israel's doing. It's like, they should just go in there and be like, you know what? We want our hostages back. If we don't have them back, the clock starts now and taking 24 hours. We're gonna start bombing motherfuckers and killing freaking civilians. 30, 40,000 a freaking time.
SPEAKER_02Killing civilians 30,000 at a time.
SPEAKER_04Whoa. So you civilians better freaking pack up and freaking get these freaking motherfuckers and you go against them us.
SPEAKER_02If Dylan Mulvaney has a caricature performance of womanhood, this is a caricature performance of manhood. Um this is if there is such a thing as toxic masculinity, and of course there is, this is it. Okay, this is it.
SPEAKER_04You fing go against them. We're not playing fing games with you. That's the only thing people understand. This is what happened to Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Boom! Just wiped out. They're like, oh, yes, we don't have Supreme Leader anymore.
SPEAKER_02Well Hirohito was there afterwards, actually, but but um whoa, whoa, Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Those are positive examples of just and like slaughtering 30,000 civilians and and intentionally killing civilians um as your hostage negotiation. This is um yeah, this is this is the freedom narrative untethered from anything called justice.
SPEAKER_04We did not know you had such big bombs. Yeah, but everybody has big bombs now.
SPEAKER_03The problem is you use a big bomb, you set a precedent that they can use a big bomb.
SPEAKER_04They don't have one.
SPEAKER_03Well, they don't, but they're allies too. Right. That's the real problem.
SPEAKER_04Someone's gonna learn. Yeah, but you gotta get your ass beat hard enough.
SPEAKER_02Man, here is a guy who responds to a Bud Light ad commercial by shooting things. Like, what's your solution to Israel-Palestine? I know. Bom them and then bomb all their allies. Like, oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_03Um You can't just nuclear bomb people. I didn't say nuclear nuclear bomb you back. No, I just said Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I thought you meant it like that.
SPEAKER_04No, no, I was saying that just the the brute force of strength.
SPEAKER_02Row back from Yeah, because uh we we all know that Hiroshima and Nagasaki are uh great examples of like diplomacy. Um no, you you meant dropping the bomb. The bomb. Used in those.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but even a conventional bombing campaign. If you want to do that somewhere, they can do that to your place. And this is what we have to afford.
SPEAKER_04Go around and find out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, until someone launches nukes. He's the voice of reason, isn't he? Yeah. And I and I've heard great praise for Joe Rogan from um people on the left who um haven't liked many of the things that Joe Rogan uh has said, but um he is doing a great job here of being a voice of reason uh to a guy who would start World War III. He would, if he was anywhere near the nuclear codes, and he is very good friends with with Donald Trump. That's interesting, isn't it? Um my goodness. But Joe Rogan, an absolute voice of reason here, and and so we see we see great difference here. And I think voices on the right, um, you might think of the neocons who are very hawkish when it comes to war. Um, I think the notes that are coming out of a lot of parts of the Republican Party are um actually, who cares about Ukraine? And who cares about overseas wars? It's America first, and that that kind of isolationism is uh a big part of the Republican Party nowadays. Um, and so again, that's another like realignment. But Kid Kid Rock, um, should we call him hawkish? I think I think he's kind of nuclear hawkish here.
SPEAKER_03We our civilization is over. The world as you know it ceases to exist. There is no more electricity, whatever tools you have are things you find. Wow, and a small percentage of us are gonna make it to breed and then make new kids. I like how you say go out into the world. I like it. There's very few people that are gonna live, man.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's like me and you could probably come out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well yeah. I have chickens too.
SPEAKER_02I have elk in the freezer too. So well done, Joe Rogan, voice of reason here. Um but let's let's go talk about the spiritual war issue. It's not a war issue, it's just I I wanted three points that that rhyme, and war rhymes with war. So um let's go right to the ends where the issue of faith comes up. And uh again, let's see, an interesting kind of alignment.
SPEAKER_04Let's circle back. You told me that you believed in Bigfoot. No, I was joking. I was joking around.
SPEAKER_03I was joking around. Uh but I wanted Bigfoot to be real for sure. Just like I want Jesus to be real. He is. Um well the thing Bigfoot used to be real. The thing that I found out when I really got fascinated by Bigfoot.
SPEAKER_04You know how you know Jesus is real right in this moment? How? Because the forgiveness that I am exercising by drinking this Bud Light right now. That's Jesus. That's Jesus. Jesus is everywhere.
SPEAKER_02So, okay, there's an interesting way into a conversation about forgiveness. Um I actually I I don't think this is a model of it, but I I do think that forgiveness is a very arresting uh topic to talk about when you talk uh about the gospel with people, especially in a time of realignments and culture wars. Um what does it take to actually reach across the aisle and and and actually uh show peace? I don't think Kid Rock is the example of it. Um, but he's not wrong that that forgiveness actually shows you something of the way of Jesus. And then he says Jesus is everywhere. What does he mean by that?
SPEAKER_04He's in this room, he's in the world, he's in the universe by the aliens that you want so desperately to be real or have the concept of them being real. That's Jesus.
SPEAKER_02That is Jesus. Okay. All right. I mean, that's that's interesting, Kidrock. Now, there's lots that you can make fun of about this. One thing you should not make fun of is connecting Jesus to all of life. Um, he's not wrong that Jesus is connected to the beer that you love, and Jesus is connected to the life that is out there in the universe and to the minutiae of the everyday. That is all Jesus. Jesus is everywhere. And if you're more comfortable with somebody saying, oh, God is everywhere, but you're less comfortable with saying Jesus is everywhere, I worry that you have a subordinationist Christology, right? I worry that you are Aryan. You think that Jesus is merely kind of human and God is greater in that sense. Whereas what Kid Rock might be able to point us towards is the idea that, yeah, your enjoyment of a beer is a Jesus-shaped thing. This is the universe that Jesus made. John chapter 1, verse 1. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. Another title for Christ. Through him all things were made. Without him, nothing was made that has been made. In him was light, and that light was the light, that light, life was the light of all mankind. And it says the true light that gave enlightenment to everyone was coming into the world. Jesus gives enlightenment. Bud enlightenment. I don't know. He like he like what you love about music, right? Even if you love country music, even then, like that is a gift from Jesus. It is not just a gift from God. Whether Kid Rock meant any of what I just said, let's at least learn from that. That what we're connecting people to is not just God in the abstract, but Jesus. And the and the thing that you love about that concert that gave you chills up your spine, that was that was a Jesus moment, not just a God moment.
SPEAKER_04That is Jesus. As a Christian, I have to believe in forgiveness. Beautiful. Cheers. Um I never thought I'd have to explain Jesus through drinking a fing blood light, but you're not explaining it.
SPEAKER_03You're just you're you're saying how you feel.
SPEAKER_04Jesus and God are everywhere. They're everywhere. Every time you look at a flower that blooms, or you look at what are your children, you're like, that's Jesus.
SPEAKER_02That's Jesus.
SPEAKER_04That is Jesus.
SPEAKER_03That's true.
SPEAKER_04That is God.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I want to be real clear.
SPEAKER_04I'm not like I just saw a shooting star. How fing cool is that? That's God going bang, nailed it.
SPEAKER_03Sort of. That's every 30 seconds.
SPEAKER_04I haven't seen one all f interview. I just happen to be speaking passionately about Jesus and God, that motherfucker went whoop.
SPEAKER_03But that's how b confirmation bias happens. That's what makes it. Bringing his reasoning. Yep, yep, that's that stars on. Maybe you timed it right. It could be coincidental.
SPEAKER_02Now, this is the way the conversations happen, don't they? Isn't it like we do videos on here that are about you know major issues in apologetics and how to prove that the tomb was empty with five great arguments and all that kind of stuff. But you know uh conversations that happen about Jesus are far more like this. They're three hours, three and a half hours in, you've you've had a couple of beers, you just see a shooting star, and somebody says that's Jesus. Honestly, that that is how conversations happen about far more conversations about God happen like that than that somebody was reading a historian and they made an interesting point. And what do you think? That that's not really how faith comes. Faith conversations happen like this. So there we have it. We've got the culture wars, we've got the current war, we've got the spiritual war, as it were. Um, and on all these issues, there are tectonic plates that are shifting. Aaron Wren is right that life is not the same as it was in 1994. That's absolutely true. But it's not that everything is completely negative now, nor is it that everything was completely positive then. It's just that the challenges have changed. And if you have a thumbnail sketch of the culture that hasn't been updated in the last 20 years, um, then you are not going to be able to persuade the culture. And you're right, you you might be standing above a kind of a left-right divide that is no longer even there anymore. And um, Aaron Wren is absolutely right that we need to update our views of things. Um, but I still believe in persuasion, and I still believe that um there is an idolatry on all sides of the culture wars, an idolatry that is only resolved by repentance and faith turning to Jesus again. And so, no, we shouldn't kind of coddle left and punch right and all that kind of stuff, but we should find ways of critiquing all sides of the culture wars as well as identifying opportunities on all sides of the culture wars, because it is not all negative. There are threads that we can pull on with progressives, there are threads that we can pull on with libertarians. We can there are threads that we can pull on for those who believe in the freedom narrative or the progressive narrative or the happiness narrative or the education narrative or whatever it is. And I think Tim Keller would say that too. Um, and I think he had been saying that uh right up until his death. And I think we can be persuasive cultural apologists as we survey the scene, uh, but let's not be naive and let's not think that things are the same as they were. Things have changed, and it's fascinating. We also have a way of you exploring Christianity for yourself and sharing it with others. It's called 321. You can check it out at 321course.com. You can binge it in a couple of hours or do it over eight sessions. It's our way of showing you life according to Jesus. Why don't you start an account, watch it, and share it with your friends? That'll do us here from Speed Life. We'll see you on the next one.