The Speak Life Podcast, sharing Jesus in everyday life. Hello, everybody. My name is Glenn Scrivener, and uh I am in lockdown in Eastbourne. And uh we are talking today with uh a couple of uh great performers. They're always performing. Uh but before we introduce uh Michael Tinker and Andy Kind, we've got Paul Feesey in Crowborough. Paul, you've had some trouble with rats, I understand. What's going on? Yeah, just put that out there for the whole world. Yeah, that's fine.
SPEAKER_03More so, yes, vermin. Yes. It's just what we need at this time, of course, when nobody wants to come out to your house and so you're meant to be protecting the household, Paul.
SPEAKER_02Your wife is great with child and yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, I've seen it. I have got someone coming, but I've seen him. I've seen him outside the rat. I've seen him in the garden, just keeps popping out under the decking, so I know where he is. Really? So I'm ready. Got my shovel.
SPEAKER_02Are you sure it's got your shovel? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Is it just one? Are you sure it's just one? I mean, who's to say? It looks like one, but it might just, you know. Becca did say to me earlier, is it the same one? I was like, well, how am I supposed to know? Like I don't know. It's not like one's wearing a hat or something. So Yeah, they all look the same to me. But it it could be useful food source for later, so I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Sustainable, yeah, if we can breed them. Yep. Maybe, maybe. Well, uh, if Paul does leave uh later on, it's not because he's been so offended by our great guests, Andy Kind and Michael J. Tinker. Um, but uh he has a family to defend, and and so we we will allow him uh to go and defend against that vermin invasion. Um should we go uh should we go north to Andy Kind? Andy, do you want to uh introduce yourself to us? You you you are known as a Promedian.
SPEAKER_06A what? Yes, well, exactly. Yeah, um, so I am a uh a preacher and a comedian. So the the brand that I use is Promedian, which is just a compound noun of those two things. I was a professional comedian for 15 years, um, and still am, that is still what pays the bills. Um, but then probably four years ago, um, I felt the Lord lead me into preaching, uh, and that's grown over time, and the preaching has kind of grown out of the comedy. So um rather than call myself uh a Christian comedian, which is something I've always hated, or a funny preacher, which I think sounds just vile.
SPEAKER_02Um I've just nothing worse than a funny preacher.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I've just coined the term promedian. Uh, and it's just supposed to be a helpful branding online, really. It's it's not something I overly define myself by.
SPEAKER_02Well, if you did define yourself by it, you'd probably be the the one person in that category, would you?
SPEAKER_06Well, that's it. I'm always I'm all about the um the pioneering nature, I'm all about creating new markets. Nice, nice.
SPEAKER_02It's a it's a very lonely hashtag for me. I am a Google whack. Yeah, that's it. Very good. And uh uh we've also got Michael J. Tinker with us. Do you want to introduce yourself to people? And where are you?
SPEAKER_05Ah, yes, that's a very good question. We are currently uh cruising through space. Um we're we're in lockdown on the JBI Starship Juniper um uh in quarantine with uh with my crew. Um there's Captain Archibald, uh there's Octavon Pompinickel in engineering, um, though you don't give him anything to fix because he'll break it. Uh there's Igor, he's chief security officer. Igor. Uh and uh who else is Septimer, she's first mate, and uh Mr. Grumpy. Obviously not now, it's not that kind of video. Sorry, that was Mr. Grumpy. And uh yeah, so I do uh kid songs, album albums, I tour shows when we're not in quarantine, and um going to other schools. Um so yes, that's that's who I am. Yeah, as well as other things.
SPEAKER_02Yes, you are you're more than that, but let's let's pin you down for now. Um, so you you you've mentioned about your calendar, your diary. It is um it's wiped at the moment, I I take it. Um what does that mean for a performer? And you kind of you rely on these performances, you rely on these gigs. What's it like to have the asteroid of COVID-19 land in your diary?
SPEAKER_05Um I think I think for me, it's going to, I think we're gonna feel the impact of it a little bit later. So there's many musicians I know who have had tours cancelled, you know, they've they've been on tour and they've had to head home. It's all just been cancelled. Um, we had Andrew Peterson over um recently, and we're sat in the pub with him, and they're on the phones trying to work out whether actually the shows are gonna be going ahead. Um, I haven't quite had that because I've have had shows booked in a couple of weeks' time. Um, but uh I'm realizing it's going to impact me possibly next year as well, because next year everybody's gonna be trying to re-book their gigs, and everybody who'd be wanting to gig next year will be trying to gig as well. So I think we're all gonna be a bit crowded at that point. So bizarrely, there's gonna be a knock-on effect, I think, in the years to come.
SPEAKER_02What's it been like for you, Andy?
SPEAKER_06Um, well, yeah, similar. I mean, my diary is still useful, um, but for letting me know when to celebrate patron saints and um and and literally nothing else. Um so no, it's it's been totally wiped, but um, you know, it's nice to have a uh a bit of extra time to do stuff. So I've I've taken the Christmas tree down, uh and uh finally got some time to give over to working out whether I think Ross and Rachel actually were on a break. Uh we've waited for about 20 years to find the time to think about that. Um but no, it's um practically it's a it's a disaster. The reality, there's there's almost something consoling about the fact that everybody in the gig economy is in the same the same boat. And um I'm quite lucky in a sense in that um I work for a like you guys, I'm an evangelist, so I work for a church two days a week, and um that gives me uh something. And I suppose also for people like me and and uh and and Michael, um, although we will be a bit rusty by the time this is all over, we'll still be eminently employable. Um so it's you know, our the artistic gift doesn't depreciate over time. I suppose there's something encouraging about that. Um and so hopefully the work will still be there. As Michael said, it's gonna be a struggle to get everything back in the diary when everyone's clamoring for it. There will be a bottleneck. But I'd rather be um I'd rather be a promedian uh than a uh a traffic and travel reporter for local radio. I mean, uh a lot of those guys, I mean, they've all been sacked, and uh a lot of them have been executed as part of this new normal. So um, yeah, you know, small mercies really.
SPEAKER_02I think that's the only thing that will halt the pestilence. I I but I read it in some ancient tome. They must be sacrificed on the altar. They have caused the pestilence. Yeah. Um but but both of you um you have um sought to adjust to these new times. Uh Michael, should we should we have a look at what you what you're doing on Facebook every morning? While I while I find that. Oh, it's so awful. Yes, Mr. Grumpy does not like Michael's singing. No, not at all. No, no. Um talk us through while while I discover how I can share this screen. Uh talk us through what you've been trying to do on both Facebook and and YouTube live, is that right?
SPEAKER_05Uh yeah, I I've I found um yeah, my my technical knowledge only goes so far, and uh the the feed on doing it live on YouTube wasn't that great. So I've just done it for Facebook and then I upload it to YouTube afterwards. Um but it's been it's been fun. So um every morning at 11 o'clock for the last week and a half, um I've gone there, done a couple of songs, um, looked at the Bible, answered kids' questions, told their jokes, and uh yeah, it's been it's been really fun.
SPEAKER_02Andy, you should take a leaf out of Michael's book. I mean, just just get other people to tell you jokes and then you just you just read them out. I've I've missed a trick these past 15 years. BYO comedy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Is is my screen sh showing now? Yeah, it is, isn't it? Let me let me hit play and let's see if this works. So here's uh here's uh Michael's show from I guess uh Friday.
SPEAKER_04I am Archbald the Explorer, yes, captain of this rather fine spaceship. And I thought I would uh join you today um for a little bit of uh uh of of fun. Uh there's a little reaction from oh yes, oh I can see it. It's all coming up. I mean this is Charlie Good, isn't it? Hello Anna, owner Martins are here, Charlie Good show on Archibald here, if you hadn't worked that out already. Yes.
SPEAKER_05Anyway. There we go. You can see how unscripted it is.
SPEAKER_02That's the beauty of life. Yeah, yeah. So tell tell us what is it?
SPEAKER_05It looked like you had a friend request on Facebook. So you you better jump on that quick before they go on and uh before yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um I'm sure once they see the stuff that I share, they'll they'll be uh muting me instantly. So, Michael, what what have you been trying to do? 11am on weekdays. Uh what have you been trying to do? Um patronizing. What have you been doing? Not trying to, what are you playing at?
SPEAKER_05Failing miserably. Um, I've been um I've been trying to share the good news with the kids, um, give them something to to think about, to engage with, um, sing songs to them, just have a bit of fun Bible time with them really each day. Um, and uh, to be honest, I threw it out there not having any clue how many people would watch, if anybody would really, and just thought, well, I'm here, so why not give it a go? And uh, but it's it's had good takeup. People from around the world have been watching, which is really fun. Um, lots of kids uh sending things in, and what's been really nice is afterwards, because of course I'm used to doing live shows, so you get immediate feedback from kids. Whereas this, I have no idea what they're saying, whether they're enjoying any of it, but it's been really nice getting pictures and videos back from families, um, uh hearing about conversations they have, they've had so one, I was just looking for my phone to see if I could find the message, but it's not here. Um, but one family sent me a message saying that their five-year-old, they've had lots of conversations with their kids, their five-year-old about the gospel off the back of the discussions. And then the child came in, I think, on Saturday morning and said, Um, my sin is gone. And um, and they said, Oh, what do you mean by that? Um, just uh just to pin down the theology there. But what he's meaning was that he realized that his sin was a barrier between him and God, and he realized that Jesus had died for it and forgiven it. So it was gone in the sense that the barrier was gone, and he came friends with God, and it was just wow, that was amazing. So um really amazing. I I love that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Because I guess you're in the position that of a lot of preachers at the moment who are now on Sundays, they're kind of doing something live and then getting no feedback.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, what what kind of advice can you give for for people who are in front of camera and you're not getting the feedback? How do you how do you keep going?
SPEAKER_05Oh, that it it is it is difficult. You have to pretend that everybody's enjoying it, which might be a bit of a normal preaching for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's right. So uh yes, no, Mr. Grumpy keeps me on the ground, so it's all right. Um, but uh yeah, I just I just totally have to pretend that they're enjoying it and crack on with it. Um I'm sure they'll tell me if they're not. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02We're gonna think more about uh how it is that we perform to camera, how it is that we speak to camera uh later on in the show, because uh Paul and I have uh just done a video, we're gonna release it tonight. Uh 10 top tips about how to speak to camera. So we'll we'll think more about that in a second. But uh Andy, you too have been adjusting to this new moment, although you've been doing this kind of stuff for ages. Tell us some of your strategy. Is it as thought through as having a strategy on social media? What are you what are you trying to do?
SPEAKER_06Um, strategy would be too grandiose a term, and I think you know that, Glenn. Um, but I think it it does help to be tactical. I I I was thinking earlier on, actually, as as people in our position, um, we've all come up against this quite abrupt grief. And I think for me, I've just had to go through the stages of grief as quickly as possible. Um and now that I'm sort of out the other side of that, I'm thinking, okay, well, practically there are things I can do. However, I'm feeling emotionally, practically there are things that I that I can do. And I am used to being in front of a camera, I am used to being in front of a uh a crowd. And again, you're not getting that instant affirmation or gratification that you'd get from being on stage, and a lot of my skill set is tied into that. So, what I've been trying to do as a Promedian is to try and develop just different types of content, um, throw, throw it all out and see what lands. So, um, for instance, the other night I was I was a bit bored, and rather than just watching Netflix, I thought, well, I'll just memorize a psalm and I'll recite it to camera. So I learned it um and then recited it to camera. I think you're able to show that, aren't you? Let's have a look. If you're not, that's a problem.
SPEAKER_01That's all right. We're all professionals here. We go.
SPEAKER_06Blessed is the one whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord does not count against them, and in whose spirit is no deceit. When I kept silent, my bones wasted away through my groaning all day long, for day and night. Your hand was heavy upon me. My strength was sapped, as in the as in the heat of summer. Then I acknowledged my sin to you. And I did not cover up my um iniquity. I said, I will, I will confess my transgressions to the Lord and you forgave the guilt of my sin. Therefore, let all the faithful pray to you. While you may be found, surely the rising of the mighty waters will not come near them. You are my hiding place. You will protect me from trouble and surround me with songs of deliverance. The Lord's unfailing love surrounds the one who trusts in him. Rejoice and be glad you righteous. Sing all those who are upright in heart. Psalm 32.
SPEAKER_02Whoa. Well, I was uh I was only gonna play like 20 seconds of that, and I was like, I can't, I can't stop it. I can't stop it. I had to keep watching.
SPEAKER_06Well, I think um I'm gonna do that with all the psalms. And then uh Deuteronomy, I'm gonna learn by rote. No, I just I'm trying to um I I don't have any pretensions of of being an uh an actor or anything like that. I'm just someone who has time and uh capacity now to do different types of of content uh and just both grow as a performer and try and I suppose using my gifts and my skill set, however humble those might be, to try and help people to engage with the gospel. So what I am gonna do, I'm currently uh learning Philemon and I'm trying to paraphrase it um in modern day language. I'm gonna deliver that as as though Paul was delivering it to camera. Um, and just trying to find, as we all are, as many different ways as possible to get people who wouldn't normally uh give the gospel a fair hearing, give them as many chances as possible to engage with the Christian story uh as much as possible. So, yeah, nothing more than that really.
SPEAKER_02So Michael's had a uh a conversion story. I mean, you know, let's let's get competitive about it. Uh and Andy, who who has discovered the weight of sin slinking off their shoulders after after one of these Facebook videos? Come on. Um well the whole of Lincoln, actually.
SPEAKER_06Um, the mayor of Lincoln got in touch and said uh and said, good news, we are we are yours.
SPEAKER_02We are repenting in cycloth and ashes, all of you.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah. Um no, well I I don't I don't know. I don't know, but I think there's a there's a seed sowing uh uh nature to what we do, isn't there? And um yeah, you want you want to see growth. And what I do think, and I think increasingly, and I don't think it's just um I don't think it's just blowing hot air, but I do believe I was preaching on on Sunday for my church Redeemer King in Chesterfield, I do think we we have you know, this is the opportunity for revival that we've been praying for. We haven't been praying that the Lord would um bring coronavirus, and I don't believe that he has brought coronavirus, but we have been praying for an opportunity for revival to come, and and this might be it. And so those of us who pray need to pray. Those of us who share the gospel need to share the gospel. This isn't the time to be to be passive or to to sit in our in our pain and our grief and despair. Actually, the church needs to stand up and rise up and help other people to their to their feet. That's what we're there for. We actually have the best infrastructure of anyone in society for bringing people into community. So we just have to we just have to use it. And I think we are using it. So I'm you know really encouraged by what I'm seeing uh across the country.
SPEAKER_02I got uh a friend, um, well, in fact, he was he was in my youth group 10 years ago. Um, he's also in he's in Eastbourne, and um I got this friend request from this guy, and um, it was on Sunday morning, and he said, you know, I've been thinking about it. I I I need to get back to church. Um he was from a totally unchurched background. Um, he and his mates were just that they were the ones who got banned. So they would come every other week because they they would always get banned for the following Friday. Um, but he gets in touch and he says, Um, when when this thing blows over, I want to get back to All Souls Church, which is my my church. And I said, Well, funnily enough, they're meeting right now. And I just sent him the Facebook link and he watched it and he said, Can we have a chat about it? Um, and I it's it's been the almost universal experience of those church leaders I've spoken to, that they've had more people watch their live streams than would ever physically show up in the building.
SPEAKER_06Um Yeah, we're we're getting double, we're getting double the views that we'd get attendance on us on a Sunday. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06Well and if you if you if you add to that the fact that we are now truly entering the golden age for slipper socks, I mean what a time to be alive.
SPEAKER_02Silver linings everywhere.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Uh let me um so what what do you think? What do you think God is up to at this time, Michael? We've we've you know, and he's gone big. He said this is the revival that we've been praying for. What do you what what do you what do you reckon God's up to?
SPEAKER_05Uh I think uh the same thing he's always been up to. I think of Pinky in the Brain. Remember Pinky in the Brain? What are we gonna do tonight, Brain? Same thing you do every night, Pinky. Well, not trying to take over the world, but um rescue people. God is God's always about rescuing people. And um, we were saying this to our kids the other day, um and you know, just as they're struggling um sometimes with worry about what's going on, and saying, look, actually, there are people who don't have any hope who are also worried. So let's pray that God will use this to open their eyes to what's going on. It's you know, C.S. Lewis's thing about a loud hailer to the world, isn't it? He shouts to us in our in our suffering and our struggle. Um, I was quite struck by one of the Italian doctors on the news the other week, and he was just saying, We're we're realizing we're not enough. You know, normally they can heal all these diseases and residents. Rescue people, but they're realizing they are not enough. And and so yeah, God is about what He's always about, showing people that He's enough, and uh and nothing else is enough, He's stripping everything away from us, and uh and and on one level that's a an awful thing to lose, but actually if what we gain is Christ, then that's the greatest thing. So yeah, that's what I think He's about.
SPEAKER_02In what sort of ways can we reach out at this time? Like what have you guys put much thought into I mean obviously, you know, these Facebook lives, for instance, are one creative way of kind of reaching out. Um, what what are some other ways that we can be thinking about when we're locked down? How do we reach out?
SPEAKER_05Well, there's uh go on Michael.
SPEAKER_06No, Andy, you don't no Michael, you go.
SPEAKER_02It goes on for 20 minutes. Never zoom any Christians, it's it's dreadful.
SPEAKER_06Um well as Shakespeare said, um jesters do oft-prove prophets, don't they? So I think actually there's something just about using the the gifts that we have and that we're already using, whatever our captive audience might be. So Michael with with younger people, me with um grandmothers, uh or whoever it is that tunes into what I do, um, people from Victorian times. But um I I think there's it's just about throwing out there what we can because as you as you all know, um not everybody will watch everything that you put out, not everybody will read everything that you put out. Um and so just I think swallowing our pride a little bit, not trying to over-analyse who's watching what or who's engaging, how many likes we're getting, but just being industrious and assiduous and having that attention to detail, throwing out whatever we can, because we only have the skill set that we have. We are we are the person that the Lord has created us to be, and growing further into that. But he's not asking uh Michael to be Andy Kind, he's not asking Andy Kind to be Glenn Scrivener. Um we just have to be who we are, authentically who we are in this situation, knowing that um as the Italian doctor uh said, we're not enough to save ourselves, but we are enough to offer to the Lord. You know, we can only offer who we are to the Lord and ask that He uses that to rescue, as Michael said, as many people um as possible. So, yeah, for me it's about it's recording psalms in black and white, it's about doing interviews like this, it's about releasing apologetics blogs, it's about doing funny videos where I'm um vomiting using a kettlebell. Whatever it is, just trying to capture as many people um with the hope of the gospel, um, knowing that you won't get everybody, but but knowing that you will get some. I think that's that's the thing, isn't it, with evangelism? It's it's not trying to get everybody, but knowing that uh as we sow, we will reap. And just going after the low-hanging fruit, of which of which there is an increasing amount.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes. And you think there's there's more because people's confidences are being stripped away by the you know, health and wealth are gone and and now we're ready to listen. Is that is that part of it?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I just think everyone's we're still transitioning, aren't we? So we're we're still doing um we're still doing a lot of the stuff that we were doing before. So I mean, I've I'm still carrying my bank card everywhere, um, just in case a toll booth appears on the entrance to my kitchen, um, you know, and uh just getting people to try and drone me in some blue cheese. So I don't think I don't think I've fully adapted yet, but uh yeah, as people increasingly become aware of uh the fact that their comfort has been stripped away, um they'll be looking uh for comfort uh uh elsewhere because that's what humans do. They they look for comfort, and that's the opportunity for us to say, well, guess what? In the Bible, there is a there is a comforter who is spoken of, and I'd love to introduce you to him.
SPEAKER_02You've mentioned uh I I loved Michael's uh listening face when you said the vomiting because of kettlebells.
SPEAKER_06You know, he made a mental note.
SPEAKER_02Hmm, yeah, kettlebell vomit. Um which brings me to um okay, so sometimes you do a black and white video and you read a psalm to camera, and sometimes you tell a joke about kettlebell vomiting, and um and that that goes some something towards uh how do you strike a balance between the seriousness of this situation, um, because people are dying, and we're being told the death toll, you know, every day, and and it's exponentially rising, and we're we're seeing the seriousness of it all. And we're also sharing furiously these Facebook memes um that are funny and lighthearted. Uh how do you how do you sing and how do you laugh at a time like this? And how do you get how do you get that balance right?
SPEAKER_06Well, I'll answer briefly and then I'll let Michael um bring that into land. I think actually, you know, we uh Paul says, imitate me as I imitate Christ, and I think what we want to do is to uh is to imitate uh Christ and and the biblical story, you know, Ecclesiastes talks about a time for everything. Um and um the the Christian story is that in contrast to a lot of the Eastern religions that talk about suffering as Maya, just illusion, the the the the beauty of the gospel is that it acknowledges suffering for what it is. Things are terrible, and we can accept that. We don't have to hide from that. The the cross is the is the cosmic affirmation that not everything is okay or going to be okay. Um but uh the same the same collection of books that says God needed to die on our behalf also has the phrase in his presence is fullness of joy. So it's that joy and sorrow flowing mingled down, and being able to see those two as not binary oppositions, but actually the two sides of the same the same coin in the same story. We we are all grieving, and to acknowledge that is is good and important, it is okay not to be okay, but there's there's there's only so long that you can grieve anyway, there's only so long that you can sit in your in your frustration. Um, and we might have different timelines for that, but I think for us as Christians, we don't want to we don't want to just uh almost take on this eastern view, oh it's just my everything's gonna be okay. Not everything is gonna be okay, but but there is a hope and there is a joy to be found, there is a fullness of life to be found and a freedom in the midst of this, regardless of how bad it gets. Um, and and that's the line we're trying to tread. It's called the narrow path for a reason because there's stuff on either side, isn't there?
SPEAKER_02Michael, how can you sing at a time like this?
SPEAKER_05Ah well, it's a good job that Michael's not funny, so um we don't have to worry about that. And uh as for the singing, well, look look, let me just answer. Do you have to? They don't like you. Look at them. They're not finding you funny or interesting or anything like you. Just get get back down there. All right, sorry. Um, I was going to say, um, I think I think it's actually an issue that we as Christians we have all the time because um I mean obviously things are heightened when um uh when there's something like this, but people are always dying. Um, and as Christians, we know that people without Christ go to hell, as one um preacher um said years ago to me. And and that that's really striking. So actually there's a sombre nature to life all the time because people are lost, um, and people are dying lost as well. So there's there's always that um that pressure as evangelists, particularly, that we feel um that tension. Um but at the same time we can laugh and joke and enjoy the goodness of this world, even though it is broken and there's there's sadness about it. So I don't know, for me it's a it's a tension I'm always trying to hold. Um, because you don't want to get so jovial that you forget the the struggles, but at the same time you don't want to wallow in that because um there is something good about laughing at the goodness, you know, that that there is. Also, it's very British. That's how we deal with um struggle, isn't it? Have a good old joke and a laugh. Um and uh it's Easter as well, though, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02It's very Easter that you know the the cross takes seriously the suffering of this world, and the resurrection is the you catastrophe, the good catastrophe that turns turns all things to a happily ever after.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. And and uh I mean James Carey loves talking about this kind of thing, doesn't he? That there's humour all through that as well. You know, that there's actually just genuine jokes and funniness about these situations and some really difficult situations. I mean, I you know, I sang a song this morning about um uh Elijah and the prophets of Baal and all of that, and you know, they're all cutting themselves and there's been prophets killed and all sorts of going on. And he's making jokes about Baal being on the toilet, um, which I just love.
SPEAKER_02Which is very British as well.
SPEAKER_05It's a very I think he was British. Um, yeah, exactly. So I I yeah, I don't know. I think I I think it's I don't have an answer for it, um, but I I could I I see throughout the Bible that there is that genuine tension, and it's and it is fine to laugh and it's fine to cry. Like you say, there's a time, there is a time for everything, and there's there's a sensitivity to be had if you're sat with somebody who's lost somebody, and and so on. I mean, doing something over video, I have no idea um who I'm talking to. So I am I'm conscious of that. The other day I did a song um based on Spurgeon when he said um uh that God's turned our tombs into beds and dying into waking up. And I have a song all about that. And on one level, that is quite a difficult song. It's it is about death and dying, but it's one of joy and hope as well. Um, and I am conscious that there are potentially people listening who have lost um family listening to that. But actually, I want to, in that sadness, I don't I don't want to trivialize that, but I want to give them hope and joy uh within that as well. Um so you we can laugh and we can cry at the same time.
SPEAKER_02Love it, love it. Um while I uh find this video, uh Paul, we're gonna we're gonna um change gears um because you guys have much experience of speaking to camera, you guys have now increasing experience of doing the live stream and when you're looking at comments at the same time and is the technology working. Um and so I think you you guys will be be great to talk to in terms of um how is it that we um that we speak to camera, how is it that we present to camera? Because every church leader is now turning into a broadcaster, and uh lots of them have got questions for us. Um so Paul, do you do you want to set up this video in terms of what it is that we've uh attempted to do?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so I guess what we've attempted to do is try and just bring out 10 points that are helpful for people to remember as they're addressing the camera. Um, that uh I guess most people, many people won't be familiar with standing in front of a camera uh that often. Um and if you're particularly if you're a preacher, I suppose you spend a lot of time preaching to a room where you get a reaction from the room, even if even if you're in a congregation and you're in the kind of church where the congregation largely sits quietly and doesn't respond particularly, you still feel the energy in the room, you still feel um or you still see people's reactions, whereas it's very different on camera. So, really what we're trying to do here is just try and give people a few helpful pointers, things they can uh use. And you know, it may be that some of them are very relevant for people, maybe some of them are less relevant, it may be that all of them are helpful, um, but hopefully they will be useful for some people out there at this time.
SPEAKER_02And we'll see what uh Michael and Andy think about it too. But let's uh let's watch our top 10 tips in how to speak to camera. Right now, lots of church leaders and youth leaders and community leaders are asking the question, how can I present the camera? Because now the opportunity is there to broadcast from your living room to the world.
SPEAKER_03But we feel we can offer you some tips on how to present to camera in a way that will really connect with the people watching.
SPEAKER_02Nope. Top tip number one.
SPEAKER_03Look at the camera. Look actually at So we yeah, didn't quite get that. I think we were just getting a lot we're getting all the audio.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so that wasn't working for you?
SPEAKER_03I got the audio. Yeah, but the image was just a frozen image of yourself. I mean it was beautiful, but Oh dear.
SPEAKER_01Let's try again. Share. Okay.
SPEAKER_05And it's one of your top tips for streaming.
SPEAKER_02That's it. Yeah. For all your streaming needs, come to speak live. Sharing is paused. Bring your shared window to the front. How do I do that though? Right now, lots of church leaders and youth leaders and community leaders are asking the question how can I present a camera?
SPEAKER_03Because now the opportunity is there to bring it from your living room to the world. But we feel we can offer you some tips on how to present to camera in a way that will really connect with the people watching.
SPEAKER_02Oh my goodness. Right. This is a nightmare. Oh my goodness. Yeah, this is live. This is live.
SPEAKER_04Love it, love it.
SPEAKER_03Love it, love life. This should be very what are you trying to view this in? It did start for a moment there, Glenn. And I don't know whether you clicked off it to something else.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, probably. Okay, let's try it again.
SPEAKER_03You tried moving.
SPEAKER_04It's not washed.
SPEAKER_02I'm lost. I'm totally lost. Now, what's that screen?
SPEAKER_03That's your that's your window. That's the video of you.
SPEAKER_02But that's a different video of me. I'm gonna get rid of that. Okay, I don't want that. And I'm gonna get rid of my screen.
SPEAKER_04Get rid of him.
SPEAKER_02Get rid of him.
SPEAKER_04Oh, there's your notes. Right, okay.
SPEAKER_02Right. Here we go. Delta videos.
SPEAKER_03Right. This should be it, right? Are you seeing it? It's a different one to what you were on the screen before, so possibly. Different. Is this it? Are you seeing it? Yellow. You've gone for a like a custard, custard number.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yellow for hope. Okay. So if I hit play, let's see if this works. Okay, here we go. Right now, lots of church leaders and youth leaders and community leaders are asking the question, how can I present the camera? Because now the opportunity is there to broadcast from your living room to the world.
SPEAKER_03But we feel we can offer you some tips on how to present the camera in a way that will really connect with the people watching.
SPEAKER_02Look at the camera. Look actually at the camera.
SPEAKER_03Leave it alone.
SPEAKER_02Alright, alright, forget it. Forget it. It's harder than it looks, okay, guys.
SPEAKER_04Just get rid of the dead wood while you can.
SPEAKER_02That is very disappointing, everybody. Um it should be really simple. So the top tips. Number one is look at the camera. Actually look at the camera, okay? Because the the camera is there. The camera is not there. The camera is not there. Preachers, don't look at yourself. Look at the camera. Okay, that's point number one. Okay. Uh, point number two, can you remember what it is, Paul? No. It's make sure the camera is looking at you.
SPEAKER_03Yes, that's true. Not up your nose. That was one, not up your nose. Also, I'm not doing a very good job here because this should it said make sure it's at eye level. Yes. Or not below. Um but uh not up your nose and make sure you're in the frame. So there's a lot of this, isn't there? There's a lot of this kind of stuff going on with people.
SPEAKER_06It's great though, isn't it, that all those celebrity chef cookbooks that we've got every Christmas for the last 10 years and never looked at, they're now really good for resting your phone on to bring it up to high level.
SPEAKER_03It's absolutely praise the Lord. Totally.
SPEAKER_06Praise the Lord for hairy bikers. Thought I'd never thought I'd say that.
SPEAKER_03Gesturing was another one, wasn't it, as part of that? But if you're a this kind of person, doesn't work quite so well if you're that close.
SPEAKER_02But you can you can maybe if you if keep your hand gestures in frame. I I vogue quite a lot when I'm on this camera. Yes. You too can be a spoken word artist. All you need to do is karate chop the air randomly. And you don't even need to rhyme because you're spoken word. And you've washed your hands of all artistry. Yeah. That's another, that's another rant. Um so yeah, so point number two is make sure the camera's looking at you. Point number three um is don't continually look at the camera, um, because that's just intense. Um, but is there is there a point sort of off camera that you can meaningfully think of? And uh don't don't make it too narrow an angle, don't make it too wide an angle. Um that's that's probably too far. Um, but just off 30 degrees off camera, and then you bring it back to the points. You bring it back to the camera as you land the plane. That's that's point number three. Look away from the camera.
SPEAKER_03Uh can you remember any of the other points? Yeah, I've got it here now. Point number four was to eliminate distractions. So we talked about eliminating distractions from the frame. Um, and again, aware that basically I've just tried to get my washing out of this uh shot, is all I've managed in in this one. Um, but it wasn't uh and I think as well, when I was filming this, there's a moment we're in the middle of it. Obviously, it's not in the video where I turn and just shout at my daughter and go, Clara, be quiet. Quiet onset, yeah, useful not to have uh other things going on, but it wasn't just it wasn't just the visual things, it was the audio things as well. So it may be particular mannerisms that we have where we say um or uh quite a lot, or one one phrase that I know I fall into the uh the trap of using a lot is just using the word like, and it was like this, and then I was like, and he was like, and you know what it is like, and actually when you watch yourself and you hear yourself, you kind of go, Oh my goodness, that's awful. So be aware.
SPEAKER_02You've got to watch yourself a lot and develop a healthy hatred for those like mannerisms. Already there. If you need any help with that per we're always ready to but I remember I had a phrase that was always um that kind of thing, I would I would finish every sentence with that kind of thing, you know, and it was and it just bugged me so much. But but now I don't do it because I just yeah, I developed hatred for for that phrase so much that so eliminate come on.
SPEAKER_06I think there's something to be said as well, um, because a lot of preachers and people using this new normal um to cast their you know talks or whatever, they're gonna realize that they don't sound as they think they sound and they don't look as they think they look. That's something that you have to come to terms with, and you just have to come to terms with it. It doesn't matter how stupid you think you sound, that is how you sound. It doesn't matter how much less attractive you are in real life than you were when you were 18. That is how you look to people. So you're the only one caught out by that. You just have to get through that because I think that psychologically that can be something that stops people from engaging with the camera because they they don't want to actually. I mean, there's I wear a bowler hat for a reason. Um and it's not because I'm from 1890. Um, but you just have to acknowledge that you look as you look, you sound as you sound, and it's not no one else is thrown by that.
SPEAKER_01Right, right.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's definitely something I've had to learn just record being a recording artist, is is yeah, is getting used to what you actually sound like, and it's very weird to start with. And then you just go there.
SPEAKER_02Like whenever whenever I complain about a photo not being a very good likess of myself, like my wife, who has an admirable zeal for truth, will just say, Glenn, do you see that? Do you see how you look there? That's how you look all the time. And then, of course, I think, oh, I hate myself, I'm ugly, which of course I don't hate myself. I love myself so much, I think I deserve to look better than I do. Beautiful. Yeah, that's the that's the tragedy of it. Uh, what's what's the next point, uh Paul?
SPEAKER_03Uh demand attention. So own yes, just uh own it. Yeah, it's one of the things, wasn't it? Give it to me! Demand attention.
SPEAKER_02Because I think if you're alive, there's there's so many other social protocols that are going on and lots of other things that are going on in the church service or the youth group meeting or whatever that that's gives you the floor. But I think when it's it's a very kind of alone place when you're the only person taking up the frame. Um, and you've got to demand attention and say, This is why you need to listen to me.
SPEAKER_03Um And often when you're preaching, like i i in a church, it it is a kind of captive audience on the whole. Most of the time people don't get up and walk out. Whereas it's very easy just to click be like, uh, click off or just you know you're watching uh you're watching the the the church service on the tv and you just get your phone out and do something else because you're not really engaged with what's going on. Someone uh from our church uh went and had a shower during my uh during my preach came back as long as it wasn't you when you're preaching that's why I still have a job very good what's the next top tip uh speak to people so you know even though you're online and you may well be broadcasting out to you know millions um you're also talking to individuals in their front room you know there may be you know a a a someone who is literally sitting by themselves um and has been in isolation for days and days has not seen other people and actually you've got to remember you're speaking to them as if you're speaking to an a a person and I guess that's probably that's easy when you're preaching isn't it in a room full of people because you can still look people in the eye around the room and engage in that way. But as we mentioned earlier it's very difficult when you're just behind a screen you can't see people it's easy to forget who's really there and who you're talking to.
SPEAKER_02So and I think the next the next point is own it. Is that the next point? Yes. And and I I I wish this were true for all preaching and maybe maybe now is the time for preachers to learn that they have been authorized by Jesus who's given us a great commission they've been given words by the Father they're filled by the spirits can we now take this opportunity because like one thing that the camera does is it puts you right at the center and like how dare we take up that space without like feeling like we've got something to say with it without without you know owning the moment in which all eyes are on you but not for the sake of you but for the sake of the Jesus who you preach. So is this is this a time when as awkward as it feels preaching to a webcam or whatever as awkward as it feels we have to own the moment and therefore we have to actually preach um may maybe it maybe it takes um getting rid of all the people to have this this kind of the this idea that I'm not going to draw any response or energy from the room because there is no energy from the room it's all got to be from the Lord through my mouth and out.
SPEAKER_03Maybe we'll start to develop some more top-down preaching um where the Lord is preaching through us I don't know but we've got to own the moment you know anyway what's the next point Paul it's to be human and this was actually more to do with the fact that actually the camera picks up the little things so the little expressions on your face the the raised eyebrow the little smile the things that actually connect with people um and so to just be aware of those things and you don't need to be completely polished you can be very much less formal um and less scripted than perhaps you might norm you might feel comfortable um but that's okay and it comes across quite well actually yeah yeah brilliant what's the next one uh watch yourself though I'm afraid oh has Ratman come he has I think rat man no I shall I bid you all adjour okay good luck take care watch yourself Paul watch yourself geezer um yes so Paul is off to do battle with vermin um and uh yeah so watch yourself is yeah is what we've already discussed um you won't know how you come across until you see yourself everyone else has to put up with your ugly mug um if this is news to you it it's long overdue that you but it's everyone's in the time of of new horizons and new skill sets and in the midst of in the you know in the midst of difficulties opportunity and all of that recording I recorded my preach for Sunday on Thursday watched it back straight away and thought that's one of the worst things I've ever done it's boring it's uh staccato it's dire and then I watched it back as live on Sunday and um I just had a totally different experience of it because I knew that people were watching it with me and I had this live feed coming through with with nice feedback and so not just watch yourself but understand that everything has a context and that although you may be your worst critic other people aren't judging you by the standards that you're setting for yourself.
SPEAKER_06So yeah just understand the second time you watch it back or when it goes out you may just experience it in a in a in a totally different way so don't be discouraged I would say don't be discouraged put it out there uh and um yeah and just and just see what happens and then learn from the the mistakes that you that you do invariably make.
SPEAKER_02How do we deal with that sort of self-critical spirit? Because I especially with creatives I mean part of part of being a creative is um you have developed a certain sense for what works and what doesn't work um and you'll apply it to all the artistry that's out there but you'll apply it most of all to yourself. And Ira Glass has got this great sort of uh kind of uh quote really about the the problem with creatives is as they as they develop their taste is good from the outset but their work is not and so everything they produce is garbage it's nonsense and you know they they want to kind of throw it all in the bin instantly um but he sort of says you know persist persist because that that taste is what's got you into this creative realm um keep going keep going and eventually you'll you'll discover your voice and you'll discover what it is that you've been aiming for all along how do you how do you stop that self-criticism from kind of killing you um yeah I think it it there can be a good thing about it in terms of it driving you to do better.
SPEAKER_05But but I again I think there's yeah what you're saying about um knowing being being relaxed and that you can be a bit more informal in this kind of setting is good to sort of set your expectations well I suppose say look this isn't gonna be like a Sunday um it is gonna feel a bit weird because there aren't people here and I can't see your reactions and I am reading it and all of that kind of stuff and I'm new to technology or whatever it is just admit that and go okay so therefore this is kind of the level it's gonna be at and that's fine and embrace that do it as best as you can learn from it the next time but just just set your expectations well and you know and that's that's a good thing in all sorts of artistry I'm trying to teach my kids that you know as they're learning instruments they're not going to sound amazing and that used to frustrate me no end as a kid and why I hopped from instrument to instrument because I wanted to be amazing the first time because again my taste was was good I was listening to really good music never got into music of the 90s really I was mostly in the 60s and 70s so um and it was all up there but of course my actual ability was way down here but it it stopped me from doing it rather than going okay actually yes my taste is here but you know what this is the next step I'll be able to get to and that's okay. And then it'll be this step. So just yeah just setting your expectations well is going to be important.
SPEAKER_02That's very good. Yeah and and very good for all sorts of church leaders listening in and feeling like oh this is the first time I've ever done a live cast well you know I I hope that I've helped you realize that all sorts of things can go wrong with a live cast and and that's my service exactly to you all.
SPEAKER_06But yeah we're we're all learning at this and actually you you don't want a polished performance in this and also to realize that um you know to use myself as an example I've I've been on stage over 2,000 times over 15 years. And I am more comfortable on stage than I am off it. And yet I am not free of the insecurities that come from being in front of a camera or being on stage. It doesn't matter how good as we've just touched on it doesn't matter how good you actually get you never think that you've got it right because your bar is always being raised so you always judge yourself by your own 10 out of 10. Other people can come up to you after a preach or a a show and say that was amazing that was the best thing I've ever seen whereas for you it might have just been a six out of ten. And so just being aware that we we are judging ourselves by much stricter more detailed standards than anybody else's and everybody is insecure about it.
SPEAKER_05No no one is that confident nobody does good work not even one I like it I like it um good mashup of Romans three um brilliant and then the the final point about our top 10 tips is watch others um who who do you guys rate uh Michael earlier you you were saying watch a lot of TV if you want if you want to know who's good at presenting to camera like who who do you watch who who who do you look up to oh in terms of this to camera stuff well I get I guess I uh somebody mentioned this looks like the broom cupboard you remember the broom cupboard Phillips and um Andy what was his name Andy Crane and then Andy Peters and latterly Toby Anstis please get it right yeah yeah um you know and that's what I grew up watching so um I've watched a lot of that and um so yeah imbibed there to camera skills I guess just the the mannerisms um how they'll keep things going and not uh stutter um things like that so uh um yeah so yeah do do watch people but again you've got to say but I am not that person there's so it's kind of okay there's things I can learn from that and tweak but I am still me with my personality and the way my brain works and the words I use and all that kind of stuff it is different. So it it it's just trying to keep remembering that you are different and that's okay.
SPEAKER_02Yes yes awesome so um guys how how can people uh keep in touch with you Andy if they were to if they were to find you online where would they go?
SPEAKER_06Yeah certainly well can I answer previous the the uh the question you just asked to Michael in terms of who my influences are I watch a lot a lot of Saturday Night Live which is a an American sketch show and I watch Shakespearean actors and um I I tread the narrow path between those two those two styles um in terms of where people can find me that you know they you can't come to my house at this point maybe in September I'll let you all come around for a party but for now at Andy Kind Comedy on Facebook and Twitter is probably the best place to get me or if you type Andy Kind into YouTube you'll find my channel and I'm having a lot of opportunity to put new content on there now. So yeah it'd be really good to engage with people across those platforms.
SPEAKER_05Terrific same question Michael um it's all forward slash Michael J Tinker so Twitter, Instagram, uh Facebook YouTube so yes put whatever you need to put before the Michael J Tinker do that. And the website is Michael Jtinker.com as well. So the live feed is going out on Facebook 11 o'clock every weekday morning. It's about half an hour. So um yeah do do tune in. That'd be great.
SPEAKER_02Brilliant brilliant and if you want to keep on tuning in to speak life we've got uh tonight our how to speak video actually launching um so we'll have people who know what they're doing uh who will release that video uh tonight at 5 p.m. uh tomorrow we've got the final uh video in our tutorial series of how to adjust to COVID 19 and we'll talk about how to set up how to set up your camera even if it's just a smartphone uh how is it that you can set up your filming uh so that you'll get to uh the very best outcome uh tomorrow evening at 8 p.m on Facebook uh we are having a webinar and you can jrop in on that and ask any of your questions about how to adjust to COVID-19 in terms of filming and streaming and speaking to camera and uh and setting up so that you can broadcast from your living room or wherever wherever it is that you are broadcasting from. In the next week, uh i next week on Monday and Wednesday and Friday we're gonna have some evening webinars that are gently evangelistic and we'd love you to invite your friends uh to those webinars uh we're gonna talk about three issues on Monday we're gonna talk about how to face anxiety and we'll have Dr. Joe Jackson uh who is the head of counseling at all Souls Lang and Place and uh going to talk to Reverend Dr. Paul Blackham as well uh on that issue. Um everyone's back uh on the Wednesday to think about how to pray perhaps for the first time uh lots of people are thinking about uh the big stuff in life maybe we can uh grab them and start teaching people how to pray and then the third webinar next week on Friday evening at 8 p.m. we're gonna talk about how to face our fragility and we'll have Jeremy Marshall on that one as well talking about how he has been facing uh his own mortality through a terminal uh cancer diagnosis for the last free few years um so that's uh an evangelistic opportunity and uh we we just hope and pray that uh you guys will feel free to uh just drop a little Facebook link uh into your WhatsApp chat with your friend and say hey I'm gonna I'm going along to this webinar why don't you come along with me? It's never been easier to invite someone into uh an evangelistic event so why don't we make use of those webinars? We've got our Easter videos that have been coming out we had our Sacrifice at the cinema uh video that dropped on Saturday we had uh kids react to Beauty and the Beast that dropped on Sunday and we're we're going to have a spoken word video a poetry video video that's uh dropping uh in the next few days as well so do be sharing that and this particular um uh uh discussion will be shared as a podcast that will be coming out into your feed very shortly to get your friends uh liking sharing subscribing and all that other good stuff um but guys uh thank you very much uh for joining us Andy Kind uh you've been an absolute gent an absolute 19th century dystopian fascistic steampunk gent uh thank you very much and uh and joining us from Outer Space Michael J. Tinker we're so glad that you joined us oh it's a pleasure yeah and Mr. Grumpy thank you yeah Paul Feasy is out bashing a rat as we speak right now bashing its head in um just I just want to leave you with that image um because we have been given dominion over the world it's a Genesis thing. Uh guys thank you so much for joining us and we'll see you again soon our very next live chat uh we're going to be talking to people about how to adjust to homeschooling and we'll have two uh experienced homeschoolers with us join us for that but uh until then God bless