The Speak Life Podcast. Sharing Jesus in everyday life. Hello everybody. Welcome to the live cast. My name's Pete and I'm here with Paul.
unknownPete.
SPEAKER_01Pete and Paul. There's some someone's written something about that, haven't they? Yeah. And the Peter, Paul, and Mary. They're a band, weren't they? Yeah. No. Yeah, so hi everyone. Welcome to uh the live cast. As I said before, this week we're going to be talking a bit about testimony and we're going to be hearing from uh Matthew and Kez, two of our other interns, about their time up in Edinburgh. Yeah, we've been looking forward to hearing about that.
SPEAKER_00Have you uh have you been having a good week though? Have you been up to much? Uh yeah, quite a good week. Been in Rye this weekend. Rye. Okay. What what's in Rye?
SPEAKER_01Uh what is in Rye? Cobbled cobbled streets was in Rye. Uh yeah, it's quite nice.
SPEAKER_00I can't remember what else was there. Yeah, my only knowledge of Rye, and and I don't even know if it is anything to do with Rye, is the Queen song, The Seven Seas of Rye. I know nothing else of Rye.
SPEAKER_01Well, as exampled already, I know little to nothing about Rye. So if you're watching and uh you happen to be from Rye, you visited Rye, you have a great story about Rye, let us know.
SPEAKER_00We really want to educate ourselves. Rye Vita related. Wow, could be. So, but apparently rye bread. We've learnt this today, rye bread, not from Rye. We've had a very exciting morning. It's been a good day so far. Yeah, so you've had a nice time in Ryan, then you've got doing some good stuff. The people have Rye have been very kind to us. The people have Rye. Good times. What about you? Good. Yes, uh yeah, it's been an alright week. I think we had our first um uh pub talk event last Tuesday night up in Crober, which is a kind of men's event where we're just getting guys together uh in the pub. So we had about 25 guys there, and it's mainly like it's uh we're thinking of it as kind of like a pre-evangelistic thing, really. It's very low level. So, you know, if you think of something like Life Explored being quite an if you think that's a kind of easy introduction to Christianity, then this is like kind of pre-bat, like just building relationships, and you might then be able to invite towards that kind of thing. So we were using some stuff, mostly it was just you know, come get together, have a chat. Um, but to kind of get past just trivial, you know, hello, who are you, and yeah, what do you do? Um we've got some stuff called Table Talk. Um there's a whole set of Table Talk stuff for all different kinds of occasions, but this one's Table Talk for Blokes, so it's been done with Christian Vision for men. And each kind of there's kind of six kind of sets of cards that it comes with, and each has a conversation starter. And so the one we had this week was around the topic is life more than a solo journey? Um, and so I kind of just did sort of a couple of minutes, really informal, sharing some thoughts on that as a conversation starter, and I basically just kind of said, you know, look, you know, we uh you look at you know, you know, you got your action heroes in the films and stuff, and they all kind of all sing and all dancing the whole package. We kind of know that's not really how life works, that John McClain takes on 35 terrorists and doesn't, you know, just walks away and it's fine. Um, you know, and but then we hear about people who call themselves, you know, I'm a self-made man, but even that's not really true. We're all kind of you know, we've always had other people input into us and invest in us, whether it's parents or whatever and stuff. Um, and just this idea that, you know, for me as so I just kind of said, you know, for me as a Christian, you know, it it makes sense that life isn't a solo journey because I believe, you know, we come from a God who is a you know, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, um, a God of relationship. Um, so we've come from relationship, we're made for relationship. Um, and you know, don't we think relationships are the best thing, you know, in the world? You know, you can go to something that's pretty pants with your family or with your friends, and you go, well, you know, it was rubbish, but it was kind of fine because I was with these people. And so we were just kind of it that was kind of the level of it, really, in terms of input from the front, so to speak. And then it was just um the rest of the time was you know, for people to kind of talk about that. And so you you can either what they've got is 16 for each kind of question, they've got or each topic, they've got 16 questions that go with it on cards that you just put out on the table, and people are free to either use them or not use them at all, and there's no order to them, and you might, you know, you might chat about one for the whole time, or you might chat about four or five, and everyone might input on something, or any one or two people might want to chat. And they're anything from, you know, on the last week's one, they were anything from what is your what would your fantasy sports team be, through to kind of like why do some men find um family life hard, you know, or what you gain from a solo lifestyle, what do you lose from a solo lifestyle? And actually we just you know, from the feedback we got, it would just work quite well because there was no you know, it's not particularly uh uh structured or forced on people. And you know, I just thought the table I was sitting on, it was just good to kind of chat about stuff. It just helped us, you know, it wasn't super deep, so we didn't feel like we had to bare our souls or anything particularly. But um, it was more than just kind of the average chat about, you know, like say triviality. So, you know, that was good, and we're kind of looking forward to doing more of those, and we've got a curry night coming up next week. We've kind of got 30 guys signed up for that at the moment, so hoping to build on that and just see where that goes. So, yeah, I mean it's been quite positive. So I assume my invitation has been lost to the post. Uh no, I just didn't invite you. So again. Um I should point out if anyone thinks that's harsh. I mean, we we don't live in the same town, so that's the reason. But I mean you're very welcome to come, you know. Thank you very much. And if you're in the Crow area and you want to come hit us up, you know, like come along, come for a curry next week. Tuesday night. Um, Tuesday the 11th. I don't know what I'm saying, no one's gonna come. They might come. Bill Lavelle from uh Texas. He's coming, he's coming. Great. So we are talking a bit today about testimony. Um and Pete, you've done a little video on testimony recently, haven't you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. So one of the uh one of the interns, a guy called Nick, he's been uh he's been editing up um kind of part of my my story. Really my story, it's it's God's story, we're gonna find out. Yeah, yeah. So uh so Nick's been editing that together and uh put it out over the weekend. And uh so yeah, we thought uh we thought we'd build on that with a bit of discussion on it today and some exposure. Yeah, that's it. Shine a bit of light on testimony and uh so uh so yeah, we're gonna are we gonna take a look at it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, let's if you're not seeing it, we'll we'll put the whole thing on now, so let's have a look.
SPEAKER_01At 18, I travelled to Australia for football trials. Uh unfortunately it didn't work out. Probably should have seen that one coming. But I decided to stay in Australia and spend a year living, working, and traveling. God was very much an afterthought for me in those days. I might pray if I was in trouble or if I needed something, but other than that, not so much. The time I spent in Australia granting me access to a lot of things I thought would fulfil me. For so long, going to Australia and living this life of sunshine, travel, surfing, drinking, girls, and partying, that was my main ambition. Partying, alcohol, and girls were very much the holy trinity for me back then. I've literally lost count of the amount of times I must have stumbled out of some horrible dive bar during the course of that year and then spent the next day on a beach hung over. But that was my big dream. The ideal scenario and the perfect life. My mind was just a mixture of Hollywood and MTV, and I always just thought if I could have that lifestyle, then I'd be living my best life and my heart would be content that I would feel fulfilled. And it was confusing for me because it wasn't the something more that I'd been longing for. It didn't leave me fulfilled. And it was kind of scary too because the next question quickly follows: what's wrong with me? Why am I still not content despite all this? Coming home from Australia and being back around family and friends and loved ones that I'd missed during my time away in Australia kept some of those questions off my mind for a while. But one of the things that did happen during my time home was that I was able to reconnect with an old friend of mine called Phil. One of the most decent guys you could ever wish to meet. We just meet up and go for drinks and make up stupid songs, just have a laugh, have a good time. Just one of those people, it's pretty rare in life that you just connect with, you just feel at home with. One of the most decent people you could wish to meet. But one thing I didn't love about him was that he always wanted to share his faith with me. And I remember one day just snapping back at him a little bit. I'd had enough by that point. And I just said, Why can't you let me believe what I believe? And I'll let you believe what you believe. I'll never forget his response. He said, Pete, if what I believe is true, then I care about you too much to not share it with you. You know, we all need friends in our lives that care enough to tell us the hard truths from time to time, and Phil was that friend for me. After our conversation, he said, I'm gonna give you a plain English copy of Mark's gospel. It's short, written in plain English, it won't take you long to read. But what I want you to do is go through it and underline and circle anything you think is rubbish or doesn't make sense. And then we'll get together and we'll chat. If you're still not interested after that, I'll respect your decision. And so at 20 years old, I started reading about Jesus for the first time. And what I saw was a challenge. Because I knew what I was expecting to see. I was expecting to see some religious figure who had a few good sound bites, surrounded by self-righteous do-gooders and suck-ups, someone who spoke a good game, but in reality just enjoyed a position of power to lord over others. But the gospel proclaims the real Jesus. And instead of this religious bigwig, I was expecting to see, I saw compassion with skin on, mercy on legs, justice personifying. Jesus taking the hand of those who've been treated unjustly. In Jesus, I saw true love in human form. He was walking around the place, forgiving people their sins, healing the sick, confronting religious hypocrisy, bringing hope to the poor, the destitute, and the broken, and saying the kinds of things that if a God of love truly existed, you might expect him to say. And I realized as I read the Gospel of Mark that Jesus and religion didn't have a lot in common. In fact, they are very, very different. And I remember thinking to myself, if God is like this guy, if God is like Jesus, well that changes everything.
SPEAKER_00Cool, so really good video there. And if um if you're using social media and stuff, do kind of get sharing it out because I think it's gonna be a really good, um, a really useful thing for people to hear and see. Pete, just give us a sense then about what you know when you were kind of putting that together, like what made you want to make that video and kind of in terms of putting stuff into a testimony. I guess there's loads of stuff probably you didn't say as well. Sure. Because you can I guess you can never fit everything in. What kind of stuff were you thinking about? You know, I would definitely want to mention this, I'm gonna get this in and kind of why.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, yeah. So I I think the first thing was we were kind of looking at making something uh, you know, around four to five minutes, five minutes hops really. Um, you know, just for the sake of giving giving people something they could stick with. But uh no, I think listening to me for more than four and a half minutes is enough for anybody.
SPEAKER_00But uh well, I did say when I watched it the first time that I got to the end and I wanted more. So there you go. More Pikachu. That's what I needed.
SPEAKER_01Back by popular demand, the sequel. Yeah, but no, we I think in the first instance that was kind of our thought process would would be kind of four and a half, five minutes. Um, and like you say, the hard thing, uh well, one of the hardest things from our point of view is how do you how do you cut down um kind of 31 years of of living into four and a half minutes? That's the the tricky thing, but um, but yeah, we we kind of landed on the end uh in the end of of doing something along the lines of um you know, kind of that process of uh of starting to think about uh there being more to life. Um, you know, spent uh spent a bit of time away in Australia as as you would have heard in the video, and uh I I think through that process found that a lot of the things a lot of the things I was kind of really thinking would would fulfil me and uh and grant me that kind of contentment that uh you know that each of us seek. Um I kind of found that actually those kind of worldly pleasures that uh that Australia granted me, they were uh well, they they weren't what I thought they were gonna be. And and uh, you know, kind of going through the thought process of of trying to work out why that was, um, seemed like a good kind of starting point, and uh just to go through from there and then talk a little bit about uh kind of some of the experiences of just opening up God's word for the first time and and actually taking a look because um you know I I speak to a lot of people who would be maybe a little bit critical of Christians and they would say, Oh, you know, you guys just accept the Bible and uh you know you don't really know uh that much about it. And and I I think the true you know, unfortunately that can be true for for some Christians, but I think it's uh it's true for a huge amount of atheists, they've rejected the Bible without ever really looking.
SPEAKER_00And sure.
SPEAKER_01Um that was my story. You know, I I I just rejected it. I'd never really taken the time to look. And when uh a friend of mine called Phil um you know challenged me to take a look for myself, I I saw that as an opportunity to uh basically prove him wrong. Yeah, you know, because I kind of said to him at the time, I was like, you know, I really like I really like our friendship. I don't love the whole evangelism part of it, but I like you. So in my mind, I think I probably thought I'll just I'll just read a gospel, um, point out all the ways in which it's inconsistent, point out all the ways in which it's it's foolish and wrong and doesn't make any sense and and then we can kind of move on and and just have our friendship without the without the the evangelistic endeavour of Phil. So that was that was the plan and actually just picking picking the Gospel of Mark up for the first time and reading through and and uh yeah there was there was some stuff in there I was surprised to see. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, very much so. And uh yeah, just kind of uh as I alluded to in the video, just looking at the person of Jesus and being really um really surprised. Really, really surprised. It wasn't what I was expecting to see.
SPEAKER_00What surprised you? Because like, I guess like the thing for us as Christians I I think is a danger is that we kind of think people know what Jesus is like already. We just kind of assume people have picked up on it through culture in some way, although I guess you know we should be aware that that's probably less and less the case now than it was 30, 40, 50 years ago.
SPEAKER_01Were there particular things that you kind of went, oh two particular things that stood out. Um one was oh I could be wrong, I could be wrong about this. I think it's Mark II where it's somewhere in Mark, I guarantee it. But uh yeah, I think it's I think it's Mark II, but um, you know, Jesus is is eating with uh eating with sinners and tax collectors and uh religious leaders saying basically if you're a big deal then then why would you sit and eat with these people? And and Jesus says, you know, it's it's the sick that need a doctor, not those who think they're healthy. And and that was really um that was really shocking for me because I read it and first and foremost I'm like, well that's beautiful, that's absolutely beautiful. And and uh I think it kind of clocked in my mind as well if a god of love did exist, then that would probably be the sort of thing he would say. And uh you know, so that that line really caught my attention and stuck with me. That that uh that kind of compassion, that depth of compassion for people. And you know, you you kind of look in our our modern day and you sort of think, well, you know, there might have been you know a super kind, super compassionate person who might have said something along those lines, which would would have been memorable, but um at that time in that people group in that setting for someone to for someone to stand up to the religious leaders for the lowest of the low and say, These are the people I've come for. That was really striking.
SPEAKER_00That was and so you were kind of genuinely genuinely unaware that that was the kind of stuff Jesus was Yeah, yeah, massively.
SPEAKER_01And uh you know, and I think that's been been my experience working in a in a church setting and stuff and and being part of the the the endeavour of kind of reaching out to local communities back in Ipsitch has been that you know we as those who are part of church for a long time, we think that people outside of the church know the stories and the reality is nowadays they don't. Yeah, they just don't. And uh and so yeah, reading that for the first time was really um yeah, really caught my attention and and it's so encouraging for um for those of us who are who are seeking to go out and and be involved in evangelistic endeavour because I I think sometimes we we get stuck in the grind, you know, we get stuck in the uh the week on week efforts of evangelism and and you know inviting people and and people saying, Oh no, not this time, or you know, the other little discouragements that happen throughout the course of the year. Um you know, we get stuck in the grind and we forget how appealing Jesus is. Um and and actually just reading about him. It was it was almost um, I think for me, uh just reading some of the beautiful things that came out of his mouth, I was like, I want this to be true, yeah, but that's not enough of in and of itself. Sure. You know, but it was a first step. Yeah, yeah. It's kind of like actually I want this to be true, but is there any is there any good reason to believe that it is rather than just a nice story that I can get on board with because it's nice.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um but yeah, that was very much a first step for me. And um yeah, I think the second thing that really grabbed me was was Jesus going head to head with the religious leaders and uh um you know, those verses that sort of you know, Jesus says, you know, you place heavy burdens on the people and and you don't lift a finger to help them. And uh I I think truthfully that had always been my limited experience of Christianity. You know, I'd go into the the big old and cold church buildings that just smacked of religion with with very little um kind of relationship or personality or or anything like that. And uh and so my thought about Christianity was that it was just this um kind of old and cold um religious system, yeah. And uh and to see and to see the warmth of Jesus, the compassion of Jesus, the the the mercy, the the personal nature to get alongside people who are really suffering and um and to to give them ultimate hope and and to tell them that God's not this religious big wig where you've got to fix your life before you can come to him, but actually he just he just wants you to come as you are because he loves you. Um and that was so um in a yeah, in a sense shocking. But also in another sense it kind of just connects with your heart because I think deep down we know that's what God should be like. Yeah, you know, it's kind of like I think no matter what your your kind of background, uh I think deep down we all know that uh that God is or at least should be this this being that that loves his creation and and uh and so to see that in the person of Jesus was really, really captivating. And ultimately to have my view challenged that he's not just one of the religious pack.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01He's he's something different. And so yeah, they were they were two big kind of starting points for us.
SPEAKER_00Cool. And yeah, I mean it's interesting, those are the two points. And yeah, just it really makes me wonder about sometimes what we're doing in church about the the way we come across, you know, if if Because it should be so obvious, shouldn't it, that uh church is full of sinners and the kind of people that you know Jesus says I come for these people. Um you know, and for you know, and for you to kind of find that a surprising thing, I just think like what a what kind of image are we putting out as Christians if people don't realise that's what we are? And then, you know, also the kind of Jesus going head to head with the religious authorities you know, the religious bigwigs, I guess it just strikes me that for the average person out there who's maybe not a churchgoer, they probably just look at us, the Christians, as being like the religious authorities. And again, I just think like, are we you know what what are we doing if we're the ones if we don't look like we're broken sinners, we're putting on some different show, like we're the pious, righteous people, and if people look at us as if we're these religious bigwigs, you go, you just think like man, we're maybe we're not always getting this very right. I mean, obvious and obviously we won't get it very right, but sure, you know, it's worrying, isn't it, that that's the image that people outside the church have of what Christianity and Christians are like, I suppose.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, and I I think for me growing up, the only thing I would have really known about Christianity would would have been what I'd seen on the news, which is almost you know is inevitably gonna be negative, isn't it? That's that's the bias. So um so yeah, I I think coming face to face with a person of Jesus was was a big deal and uh uh you know unsurprisingly so.
SPEAKER_00So good to hear a little bit of your story and and and to get a bit more on that, and and then obviously to have it put on that video is great because that's gonna be a really kind of encouraging thing for people, I think, to be sharing out and and using. And then you've you've you've helpfully put together kind of five or so, yeah, five points about testimonies. We we think about you know, with Pete giving his testimony on on the video there. We thought, well, we could chat a bit about that here today. And well, Pete, why don't you why don't you kick us off with some of your thoughts on sharing testimonies and stuff?
SPEAKER_01Yes, you very generously declared that these will be helpful. I hope and pray that is the case. Um but yeah, we we tried to put together five points. Um uh along the lines of just just helping people think through uh how to kind of present their own story and and actually you know for for those of you listening to this you might look at it and say well actually I'm not sure I agree with that one but even if it just prompts you to think actually why don't I agree with that point and how would I do it differently then then hopefully by God's grace that'll be helpful. But yeah like you say we put together five points um and the first of which is uh your story is not boring. Your story is not boring. Yeah so where does that kind of come from why might people think their story is boring? Well this comes from uh this comes from me hanging out with Christians who think their story is boring and and being quite frustrated by that um you know I I I think a lot of people just sort of think oh they have this this kind of mundane middle of the road testimony that that people won't find interesting you know they'll they'll sort of say oh you know I I grew up in a Christian household and it's always been you know part of my life and things like that. And so yeah I and you know I think part of this as well is that you know we're we're in a a stage where a lot of uh churches that do outreach events and include testimony in it they they try and include testimonies that are quite uh I don't know how to describe them quite uh yeah I can't think of the right words but yeah they're the kind of things that you that you can put on a poster and it's or Facebook post and it grabs people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah yeah yeah so and so who did it. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I don't want to start saying things because and there's nothing wrong with those stories obviously no no absolutely absolutely you know I I think they're they're a huge hugely important part of things um for a lot of people but um I think when those kind of stories of oh you know I kind of uh I came off of an addiction or I you know I went through this terrible breakup or I had this extreme thing happen to me and you know God peeled me up off the the side of the street or that kind of thing. And um you know I think when when those testimonies go out they're obviously they're obviously good and important things um but it but I think when it gets to the point where other people who have more um kind of everyday testimonies feel as though their story is no longer important or memorable or significant I think it it then becomes a shame and a problem because actually there are some people out there for whom those testimonies they'll really connect with and they'll they'll speak into their own story. But there'll be a lot of people as well who go actually that's that's so far removed from my life that I can't connect with that. And so actually hearing a story that is a little bit more um kind of everyday they will find elements of that by God's grace that they do connect with and so um part of this for me is just about saying that don't be uh don't be someone who would say oh you know I my story's just just normal it's just mundane it's just everyday because actually number one that's not true because as I alluded to earlier it's it's God's story it's not your story. And if God's part of a story then it's not going to be boring it's not going to be mundane it's not going to be regular or everyday so it's already a supernatural story. So it's already exciting by definition. Yep and so you know I think um if you know for anybody out there who feels as though their story is just not that appealing to people you have to remember that your story culminates with God's son stepping down from heaven entering into our broken world and giving himself on the cross for us shedding his blood for us that's how your story ends and that is not a boring story at all. And so yeah for me I'm quite passionate about hearing people's stories and and going hey do you know what you know that part that's really going to speak to so and so or that part would really speak to someone who's been through that I think sometimes we just dumb ourselves down and we I think we get over familiar with our stories as well. You know we you know for me I would I would probably look at my story which is well nearly 15 years ago now the one that was on the video and you know because I'm so familiar with telling it I sort of just get so used to it that I think oh there's nothing amazing about it but that actually that's just not true you know anytime we're we're sharing what God's done for us uh it's not boring it's not insignificant.
SPEAKER_00I guess like the whatever the story is at the end you know the or not the end of it but at least partway through it you know a miracle occurs where someone goes from being dead to alive and I mean I mean that's going to be a pretty good story at least you know I suppose the the the classic one isn't it where people kind of think oh my story is not very exciting is it's the well I was raised in a Christian family and I always went to church that's the kind of one where people kind of sit there and go oh yeah that's all I've got and I don't think it's very interesting but actually you know we uh when I was doing youth work we used to do a segment uh we used to do a a meeting or part of our programme once I can't remember how often it was once a term or maybe twice a term where we just used to get someone from the church family in and we just used to interview them so I think we just got some pizza and we brought this person in. You know and and we made a real effort actually I remember discussing as leaders we had a few people who had like incredible stories you know kind of you know and I almost died you know that kind of thing and waiting for a transplant or whatever it was or growing up in kind of horrific circumstances but then we also made a real effort to say like to get people in whose stories were much more kind of the the average everyday experience. I don't use average in the sense of not like exciting or anything but just you know nine I suppose the reality is for nine out of ten of us most of us haven't had completely radical experiences being kind of pulled out the gutter or whatever in some sense it has been much more everyday in some sense and we just kind of wanted you because we didn't want to give the young people the impression that you had to have this yeah you know and I remember someone once saying like you know oh you know if you're doing good testimony like what you should do is you should sit down and you should think like what was I like what like what was it like before I knew Jesus and then what was it like when I was coming to know Jesus and then what's it like now? And like that's that's not a bad thing and it I think it works quite well with certain people but there were some people who were just like well I don't really have I can't really remember a before.
SPEAKER_01There wasn't like a moment we just gradually oh and I'm a Christian you know like they they grown up in a Christian home and family and so they didn't feel they had this kind of dramatic thing they could share but actually I I I find that you know it everyone e even if you think your story is relatively mundane when you start to burrow down into people's stories you suddenly go like oh like there's a lot of stuff in there that about people you didn't know and history and things um which I again like you say you get familiar with your own story and so you're you're used to hearing it but other people haven't heard it other people don't necessarily know about you and you know I like think about my story and I can think I I know what I was like when I was a teenager and whatnot and I can think back to that and I and I can see the the ch the the difference it's made um being a Christian but actually 99% of people who I'm spending my time with on a daily basis have no real knowledge of Paul you know 17 years ago whatever it was so then you know there's all those things to uncover there so yeah's got this story definitely and I I think part of it is is just connection as well you know and and uh for every person who would say oh you know my my story's just just normal you know I grew up in a Christian home or or whatever um you you never know who's sitting listening to this you know it could be someone who's who has grown up wishing that they were part of any family you know and and actually to hear the story of of someone who's who's always had um this one day a week where they can turn up and be part of a congregation of 50 100 200 people who care about them that could be immensely touching and so yeah I I think um I I think we need to every single one of us no matter what our story holds um we need to move away from this idea of oh you know my my story's boring it's not going to help anyone um you know I I think there's an element of that in which actually we just need to trust God's sovereignty a bit more as well you know that he can use um the weakest of the weak the smallest things that seem so insignificant uh he can take them and run with them and and do incredible things and and the flip side of that I guess is so there'll be lots of people who who have that kind of oh my story's not very interesting but still kind of under this you know think about this same idea here that you can be at the other end of the scale can't you and still not really feel your story is something you want to be sharing like and you've you've come into contact with someone like that before haven't you? Yeah yeah so we we sort of got point one and then point one point five which was all under one heading one one umbrella uh heading but yeah just the kind of the second point within this is to not be ashamed of your story. Um you know we were talking earlier and I was saying to you about this this guy I'd met out um in Zambia who uh he was actually a Canadian fellow and he was living and working over there full time I was just out there for uh a couple of short-term mission trips um but I I met him and heard about his life he was very generous to share his story with us and he he had probably one of those stories which was uh you know kind of total one million percent transformation in terms of circumstance you know he uh you know he really grew up in a an environment which was kind of drugs depression real kind of despair intangibly so um and he was sharing his story with me of how you know God had really picked him up out of this this terrible situation and and transformed him his life made him a brand new person and um and he one of the things he said to me that I I'll never forget he said uh he said I hate telling my story he said I hate telling my story but I make myself tell it again and again and again because what a terrible waste it would be to keep to myself all God's done for me. And and that really spoke to me because it was just you know the amount of times we sort of think to ourselves oh you know God did this or God did this but oh actually no one's gonna no one's gonna really be interested in that and and he just said no look this is what God's done for me. I'm totally unashamed of it. This isn't a story that paints me in a good light but this is what God's done for me. This is who he is and I'm gonna keep making myself share it again and again and again and and you could tell he wasn't trying to be the star of the story he you know he wasn't interested in glorifying himself. He was just saying do you know what actually um I got some issues but this is what God's done for me and what a waste to keep it to myself.
SPEAKER_00So maybe I guess it's amazing isn't it that you've with those two ends of the um uh spectrum there you um you've got people who want to disqualify themselves from the from the process you know like either my story's not exciting enough or you know I don't really want to talk about my story even you know one group is saying I've not got this amazing story and then there's the other group who have got like amazing stories sure and everyone's kind of going oh I'm not really sure like and actually maybe the the the the the heading for this should be don't disqualify your testimony you know maybe for whatever reason but great let's move on because I'm aware we we are um we are wanting to to keep moving swiftly um so your second one you put here is your testimony is not just how you became a Christian. Think in there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah definitely um you know I I I think for me we always get drawn into using the language of testimony as as just purely this is how I became a Christian language when reality testimony is just about saying what's been happening to you. Yeah yeah you know and uh so actually you know God's constantly at work in our lives constantly speaking to us about different things we're we're journeying through life with God and so um you know I think it's just about living who you truly are out loud and and uh and recognizing that testimony isn't just something that happened however long ago you were converted um but it's it's something that's happening all the time you know what's God doing in your life right now what's God talking to you about um where are the areas where you can you can feel God really kind of shaping you and changing you and and it's strange because in a small group environment we would probably talk about those things quite openly but then when we get out and we talk to non-Christians we feel like that part of our life needs to be kind of hidden a little bit more but yeah you know I think uh I think just recognizing that that God's constantly doing different things in our lives and just to be able to talk about that openly with non-Christians and say this is what God's talking to me about right now can be enormously powerful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah I think you're absolutely right like we definitely fall into the trap don't we of like and then I became a Christian end of the story like um but I think you know I think Glenn actually has a few helpful sentences that I think he uses in some of his evangelism training to do with that things like um you know he says you know finish the sentence how uh the thing I love about Jesus is or the thing I love about church is um or there's kind of a I couldn't have got through yada yada yadda without Jesus um which puts in a much more kind of what difference does Jesus make in my life now or you know being part of the church making my life now as well which I think is is a helpful part of testimony and like you said you know like some of that stuff you talked about it's kind of 15 years ago and like you know I became a Christian when I was about 17 which is knocking on 17 years ago so like you know be like yeah but what about the next last 17 years? Oh yeah well that's not part of it you know just right so yeah I think that's absolutely right isn't it there is there is more to the story than just how you got there you know there is that ongoing thing. So yeah your testimony is not just how you became a Christian. And I think some of the I I think some of the stuff around just just part of what it means to be a Christian.
SPEAKER_01So you know for example um you know what we believe about what happens when you die like that's not something that we would necessarily regard as part of our our testimony necessarily but actually if we're meeting someone who's who's terminally ill and terrified about that then it's an opportunity to go well this is what the Bible says and this is how that good news has changed my view of that situation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know and so it's still it's still talking through okay this is how my Christian faith affects my view of the world going backwards but also going forwards as well.
SPEAKER_00So yeah yeah great too I guess we're to be witnesses aren't we for Jesus so and that isn't necessarily always just the specifics of our story but you know all those things. So great okay and then you've got here as your third point it's your testimony it's not a story about you. Really?
SPEAKER_01Is it not about not you not about me yeah and you know and we've kind of alluded to it a few times already and it's confusing because we keep using the language of my story. Yeah I suppose that's just that's just easy to speak isn't but yeah ultimately uh you know a testimony is it's not a story about us it's a story about what God has done in us um and and as I said before how could a story about God be boring? Yeah absolutely yeah and I think it's encouraging it is helpful for us to remember it's not a story about it isn't about us primarily you know and whereas of course we'll all have different stories and you know there may be parts of our story that connect with people um more than someone else's story ultimately if you the the what is the what is the the factor that stays the same in all these stories is Jesus isn't it so you know you can see Jesus is right at the centre of all this and actually we can you know I think that gives us a a a a confidence that you know it it doesn't rely on the specifics of what I say or do now it's well thank goodness yeah yeah like tell me about it later yeah well we were talking earlier and and and just saying like um you know I I had a I had a lady come up to me after a talk I gave last year and uh we've been chatting for sort of 10-15 minutes and and she said oh you you're so you're so different in person you know you really came alive when you're up there and it was a bit of a backhanded compliment as though she was going you're super boring now in person you're really not very interested but you know and I kind of said to her well look you know actually when I was up there I wasn't talking about me I was talking about God. Yeah and so and now all I've got is me and well that that's not quite as good so you know but actually that's the reality when we share our testimony is it's not about us it's about Jesus and and so how could we not be excited about that and how could anybody else consider it boring and okay point number four be prepared to be vulnerable and make sure you're sincere. Yeah so I think this this for me is kind of a um you know a two-pronged point where one feeds into the other so for me it's kind of this idea of being vulnerable and being open um actually when we do that it allows us to be um you know kind of sincere with people uh that sincerity kind of shines through um you know I I think it's it's kind of a well um well used phrase you know it's not our our victories and successes that connect us to other people it's it's often our weaknesses and our our failures our kind of mutual shortcomings that when we're able to be open and vulnerable about them those things really connect us much more than going oh I I've won this award and you sort of go oh I won award I won an award one time as well like oh that's great aren't we both brilliant 100% attendance yeah and so yeah it's you know it's this idea of actually when we when we really kind of dig a bit deeper um and and be vulnerable enough to kind of share those those shortcomings you know that's the thing that really helps us connect as as people and and in in so doing I think the the sincerity of of a story of a changed life really comes through.
SPEAKER_00So yeah I think that's really I I mean I think that's I mean it's great in testimony I think it's something that's really important in preaching as well actually and and I know like we we when I say we like we in Christian circles people who preach often say about you know there's an appropriate level of disclosure and vulnerability and I think that's that's true. But people the best connections I've ever made with people have often been in the moments where you just kind of open up and say like actually this is pretty bad like at the moment you know I'm not doing great this isn't great. You know and I I and and I think just because of my kind of general kind of view of human beings that I've kind of got from you know my Christian worldview is we're basically all broken people and whereas there may be some people out there who look like they've got it all together you know we certainly live in a society today where people put on a front we know that we're just the social media world but I think it's probably always been the case that there's an element of kind of you hear so many stories of people saying like you know and I was smiling and I was saying I was happy for her but I was dying inside you know that kind of thing. And I think when when we're open and we we make ourselves vulnerable and we're open about stuff actually it connects with people because actually I think the majority of people are a bit broken anyway.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so they kind of go hey look these people are human and you know I'm human too maybe it's okay to be human and like there's a connection there which you don't have necessarily with the the person who just gets up and says yeah everything's amazing and stuff.
SPEAKER_01So and it it gives people a license to be to be genuine and and honest about their own their own situations and and therefore I think provides a a gateway into a deeper conversation than than just the uh you know the kind of uh here's the best of me and then the then the the mask goes on or the gate comes down and that's as far as I'm willing to go.
SPEAKER_00And and maybe that ties back in a bit with the uh the one about like the it's not the which one was it number two it's not just how you became a Christian like so I think there's maybe a well a as well a pressure maybe Christians feel with they give a testimony about like to to say like and I became a Christian and and now everything's really good. Yeah. You know whereas actually I think the reality for a lot of Christians is that like well actually life isn't super super good now just because you're a Christian like the people in Australia have lots and lots of issues and struggles and problems and heartaches and all kinds of stuff. And sometimes being open about that and like you say I mean you you mentioned about you know talking to someone who's on their you know their deathbed facing death as a Christian we have a different perspective on those things we face I suppose whether it's on the deathbed or whether it's other things in life and being open about those things I think could be helpful. Which maybe ties us into the that your last one here number five you don't have all the answers. You know I guess your testimony isn't isn't saying hey and now everything's sorted and I know everything but I mean what were you thinking on that one as well?
SPEAKER_01Yeah well I I think largely this this kind of comes from from John 9 uh John 9 where where Jesus has healed a blind man and and the religious leaders have uh you know kind of uh brought him into the to the courts and they're they're accusing him in quite a volatile uh manner and and just putting all this pressure on the the formerly blind man to to call jesus a sinner so that they can they can do what they want to do there. But you know under all this pressure and accusation um he simply says I you know I don't know if Jesus is a sinner or not all I know is I was blind and now I can see yeah you know and and so you know despite all our kind of circumstances and you know the accusations that other people bring in regard to our experiences you don't have to have all the answers. You can just say hey do you know what this is who I used to be this was meeting Jesus this is who I am now and like I say you don't have to have all the answers in regard to that it's it's just hey this is who I was this is meeting Jesus this is who I am now I was blind Jesus now I can see um and so yeah I I think it's a I think it's a very beautiful way to um to get out and share with with that sense of freedom that sense of I don't need to know every single answer to every single apologetic question that's that that might be asked of me. I'm just saying this is who I was and this is who I am now praise God.
SPEAKER_00And this is what Jesus has done for me. And and yeah and and of course there'll be people who want to say like oh well that's good for you but it's not you know the thing for me or whatever. And I think you know we just need to like you say we need to be okay with just going well you know I don't have I I can't make someone you know if they've got an issue with something I can't make it happen. It's not on me to you know convince them of that. But you know we we live in an age don't we where there's very much this idea of you know you you you can't tell me about my lived experience you know and I you know if maybe and and that's often used in quite a negative way but um you know great opportunity in testimony you say look well this is our lived experience as Christians and this is the difference Jesus has made for us.
SPEAKER_01And yeah you might have objections and I can't answer all of that all I can tell you is this is the difference it's made in my life so yeah yeah yeah yeah definitely you know and you know at the end of the day if you've got a if you've got a physical problem you know because we've all got a spiritual problem of of needing that that forgiveness and relationship with God. But if you had a physical problem like uh let's say back pain and someone came and said to you hey have you have you used this product that will help with your back pain I've used it and it was really good you're not gonna go right bring out the scientific literature you know tell me everything about Volta Roll other pain medicines are available. Yeah yeah yeah but uh you know I think it does hold weight with people when when we're honest enough to go hey this is my experience of Jesus.
SPEAKER_00So hopefully you found all that helpful um next week I think so Glenn isn't going to be back around next week but we'll probably still have a live cast for you he's up in Dundee with a few of the interns uh they're going to be doing another university mission week so please do pray for him and pray for them pray for the conversations that go on there and for the Christian union in their last minute kind of preparations but um we'll still see you again next week so do join us then thanks very much for watching bye