Hi everyone, I'm Jack Mowit, and this is the Speak Life Podcast. I'm an intern at Speak Life, and if you want to join the fun we're having on our 10-month residential programme, go to speaklifefoundry.com. Maybe you'll become an intern like me, and that's a lot of fun. In today's episode of the Speak Life Podcast, we have Nate Morganlock and Glenn Scrivener. Paul Feasy wasn't able to join us due to family illness, but he'll be back next time. Nate and Glenn talk on this podcast about Christmas. They talk about Speak Life's new Christmas film and the topic of social isolation, which it addresses. They ask questions like what's the difference between social isolation and loneliness? What's the difference between chronic loneliness and transient loneliness? And what's the gospel answer? Nate and Glenn are joined by Dr. Mary Northway from Linking Lives, a Christian ministry seeking to befriend the socially isolated. Listen out for how you can help, and listen out for how Emmanuel is the answer to all our needs. Without further ado, this is Nate and Glenn talking about loneliness as a silent pandemic.
SPEAKER_02We're on! Hello everyone. I thought I was gonna get a much stronger indication of whether we'd started or not. Uh hello, good evening, and welcome. Welcome to the Speakeasy. Where this evening. What are we doing, Glenn? We're getting our Christmas on, or we're getting our getting our Christmas on on.
SPEAKER_03We're getting our Christmas on. It'll all make sense as we go, I promise.
SPEAKER_02I hope so. Um but we are not uh going to release our Christmas film until uh the official start of preparations for Christmas, which is Friday. Black Friday. Black Friday, the 26th of November.
SPEAKER_03Yes, Disdalnoses, Nathan. Nathan says, are you guys keeping the Christ in Christmas? I think we're putting the Christ into Black Friday.
SPEAKER_02We are we are putting Christ back into Black Friday.
SPEAKER_03I've been thinking about like the keeping the Christ in Christmas. Like there are there are so many sort of angry Christians about that. I can't believe that people say exmas instead of Christmas, and they get so exercised by the fact that some people think it's just about families and presents and they forget our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, which I totally understand. Yeah, but I do I do think that actually the the whole point of rituals is that you do need to constantly like proclaim their meaning and constantly refresh them. And like written into, for instance, the Passover, the smallest child in the house says, Why is this night different to every other night? And their spiritual elders do not then say, How dare you forget the meaning of this ritual? This is outrageous. Instead, they they like own it and they're like, Okay, we yeah, we need to tell the meaning of this story over and over again, and it is our privilege to do so.
SPEAKER_02And I think Christians should like they should counter a joy and a privilege to so we embrace the fact that we have to keep reintroducing or putting the Christ back into Christmas.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and and yeah, absolutely, because every we are embodied creatures and we have rituals, and we can't get away from ritual, and we can't get away from these observances, and we always have to say, Oh, it's actually about Jesus. But we don't say it's actually about Jesus, you know, you ungrateful, commercialized, you know, sentimentalized. How dare you? How dare you? Yeah, this is about our Lord and Savior. It kind of gets to me, as you as you probably it's slightly agitated. It's got yeah, yeah. Um I've woken up. I've woken up.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think the the people are probably feeling a little cognitive dissonance because the title of our speakeasy this evening is The Pandemic We Forgot. And you may think we've forgotten the pandemic that we put in the title saying the pandemic we forgot. But in order to make sense of why we're talking about Christmas and Chris Mouse, uh, we are gonna start off the speakeasy by showing uh the teaser trailer for this year's Speak Life uh Christmas film, which is coming out on Friday.
SPEAKER_03Are you ready? Here we go. Ooh, what is that all about? Nate Morganlock, director of Christmas director, yeah. So there's a woman alone at Christmas, or is she?
unknownOh are they?
SPEAKER_02Oh, do they is she alone at Christmas or not? Um, yeah, so this is the story that we want to tell this year. Obviously, we'll explain the you'll get the story itself on Friday, but we just wanted to tease it out a little bit more uh and to this this evening talk about some of the themes that are present in the film and and why we made it the way that we did. So I suppose it in some ways it goes back to one of the foundry unlocked that we did early on. Uh in the afternoons, we're looking at stories to win the world, and we were looking at the change in subject matter for portraiture in like the Renaissance Reformation, right? This might not sound like it's connected at all to a film about at Christmas. But the point is we would we were looking the way that that's because of a recapturing of the essence of the gospel in the Reformation, that uh the dignity of the ordinary and the dignity of the lowly and the poor and the vulnerable was kind of recaptured, and art sort of took a shift towards now showing not just uh the prince but the pauper too. And so we were thinking, well, there's something profoundly Christian about showing attention to the vulnerable and the weak and the needy, and at the same time, we needed to have something to show this year, and one of the things that's impacted me moving to Eastbourne is that there's an awful lot of old people, aren't there? There are in your part of Eastbourne. There certainly are in my part of Eastboard, but it's a very, very old elderly population. And the more I was I the first time reason I noticed it was because the number of benches. Yes, the number of benches on the seafront of Eastbourne is remarkable. Yes.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I don't think there's a especially because everyone's on a mobility scooter anyway. So why don't they be able to do that?
SPEAKER_02But it's like, yeah, the the bench, you know, per mile ratio has got to be better than anywhere else in the world. Um, but the people, they are there's so many of them I think are invisible people who don't have any one look at them. People don't see them because they're old. And we don't celebrate old people in our culture. We celebrate youth and we focus on youth and the young and and and particularly um women get to a certain age and they just disappear from the screen.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02They become invisible and and and they're not shown. And so we were sort of thinking about that as we were wondering about what to do for for Christmas this year, and I thought, well, what if we what if we turn the camera on to onto an elderly widow? And is there a story we can tell about her experience of life and and that you know, and that wonderful interaction with the gospel that you'll see how how that sort of works out, or a a a happy ending, a eukatastrophe, as Tolkien would talk about. Could we do something really kind of exciting there? And I th I think we've got something that's very sweet. It's very sweet. You know, we we um we thought it was gonna be funnier to start with, and we thought it might even be German. But then we worked that through our system, and now we've got well where we've got two and we'll put out on Friday. But um what it also made me think was not only do we want to uh Speak Life kind of be Christian in the way we use our camera, point our camera in a Christian way, but also we want to inspire. Yeah, we want to inspire the church, want to excite the church about living out you know their Christian life. And so we asked um a local charity called uh Linking Lives Eastbourne, a friending charity, um, if we could maybe work together with them this year, this advent. And so uh this afternoon, uh Mary, uh Dr. Mary Northway, uh who leads the work of Linking Lives in Eastbourne, if she could come and talk about the work of Linking Lives across the whole of the UK.
SPEAKER_03So let's have a look at Mary.
SPEAKER_02Uh Linking Lives UK, uh, who are you and what do you do?
SPEAKER_01Linking Lives UK is a befriending scheme. Um there's a number of projects across the country, I think over 70 projects all over the country, and we're matching up volunteers with people that are referred into the scheme who are lonely or socially isolated, and matching volunteers to then befriend those people either through chatting conversation on the telephone or by visiting them at home for a chat over a cuppa or by attending activities together with them. And it's an ongoing then relationship with that person on a week-to-week basis.
SPEAKER_02Fantastic. So um, loneliness uh is the issue that Linking Lives is trying to address, and how much of an issue is loneliness within the UK today?
SPEAKER_01Loneliness is a huge issue within the UK. Um the Office of National Um Statistics would say that four million adults often or always feel lonely. And it's an issue that's increasing. Um, you know, um over 75-year-olds, more than half of them are living alone, and with an aging population, um, you know, loneliness is just set to increase amongst the elderly in the years to come. Um, and it's it's a huge public issue really because loneliness um has been shown to increase mortality by 26%. It um increases risk of physical health issues such as heart disease, um, it causes depression, it's linked with dementia, you know, it's it's physical issues that loneliness is is causing. Um, you know, I work as a part-time GP, and even last week a patient I was consulting on the telephone with them, and then just asked a question about how much contact they're having with people. He had one conversation every fortnight with a family member by telephone, and that was the only conversation he's having. And I'm sure that you know his health issues are a direct result of his loneliness and social isolation.
SPEAKER_02Um so it's not just that loneliness is is itself an issue, it's it's attached to so many other public health issues within the UK as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's um and you know um studies have shown that that it's um it's directly increasing risk of mortality to those that are affected.
SPEAKER_02And when we just to in one sense to go back as days, when we're talking about loneliness, what are we actually what are we actually talking about when we're talking about loneliness?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so there's a difference between loneliness and social isolation. So social isolation is actually um the physical lack of social connections, whereas loneliness is more of a subjective feeling, um, you know, the sadness that um we might feel when we don't have those social connections in place. Um and it can be a very painful feeling. You know, some of our link friends have described that isolation as being crushing or frightening, or you know, being able to actually feel the silence as a tangible feeling. Um, it's a it's a painful feeling. And you know, during the pandemic, all of us perhaps um experienced an element of loneliness. Um, and there there is a difference between transient loneliness and chronic loneliness. So loneliness can actually be a helpful thing when it's a transient feeling, it can spur us on to um remake those social connections that perhaps have have um not been in place for a little while. Um, but it's really when that reconnecting can't happen. Um, for example, for elderly people that are housebound and immobile, um, or perhaps lack confidence, or perhaps just lack opportunities to be able to get those social connections back in place, that's when loneliness can increase in its duration, increase in its intensity, and can become a chronic issue.
SPEAKER_02Wow. And in terms of what what people can be doing about this, what would be what would be a helpful next step? What's a call to action for people who are aware of loneliness as an issue and want to help, want to do something about it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think for all of us, really being aware that um we've been made for connection, that um we've been made for community, that's really what the government's trying to push at the moment as well, is um togetherness in community. And um, you know, for all of us with our friends and family, existing relationships, just to kind of spur on to keep more in touch with people, to perhaps call people more regularly, to um arrange to meet up with them more regularly. And um I think perhaps um particularly a call to kind of um look out for your neighbours. Um there was a statistic that I came across um recently. 75% of us don't know our neighbours. Um and I think that's really a good first step is get to know your neighbours, get to know their names, you know, don't underestimate the power of a smiley-friendly hello using somebody's name and you know, ask questions, um connect with those that you you come in contact with. And then that you know, for some of us um uh to then volunteer to actually befriend, there's lots of befriending schemes across the country, it's not just linking lives, there's befriending schemes with HUK, age concern, other befriending schemes, and it's um you know the the power of being able to regularly um have contact with somebody on a week-to-week basis for for people that have experienced chronic loneliness. Um you know is incredible. It's it's it can be life-changing for people.
SPEAKER_02Um and and presumably it has an impact on the people who are doing the book friending as well. They they would I imagine get a lot out of it in terms of those who are going to visit the lonely.
SPEAKER_01Yes, absolutely. I would say that for most of our volunteers it becomes a two-way thing. Um, you know, our volunteers would one one man described recently, it's such a privilege to be able to share in somebody else's life. Um, and it it certainly is enriching to the to those that have um volunteered themselves.
SPEAKER_02And where could someone go if someone's thinking, right, okay, I'm really inspired now, I want to help. Um where would where would you point them?
SPEAKER_01Um so if you go to linkinglives.uk um on that website um is um an opportunity to be able to find a project that's um local to you, um, and then um there's an online application form on the website.
SPEAKER_02That's great. When you think about loneliness as a problem, is is there any sense in which Christmas is the solution? I mean, I suppose people might feel more lonely at Christmas. You know, we sort of were shocked that someone could be alone at Christmas. Um but what what is it about Christmas that solves the problem of loneliness?
SPEAKER_01I think you know, through Christmas and that's the coming of Jesus, and um it's really a time to celebrate um the grace and inclusion that God offers to us, his presence with us. But you know, as Christians, when we've experienced that grace and that acceptance by God and that inclusion by God, then it's our calling really to then be able to share that with other people and give other people that sense of belonging and inclusion that God has given to us.
SPEAKER_03There we go. Mary, um Dr. Mary Northway from Linking Lives in Eastbourne, and um lots of great stuff there. I was taking notes as she was speaking. Um thinking about loneliness as distinguished from social isolation. Yeah. So loneliness is like the distressing feeling of being alone, whereas social isolation is you don't actually have the connections, the contacts.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so you could be socially isolated and not feel lonely at all. Right. You could just be like, yeah, love it. I don't want anyone to speak to me. Yes. Uh which would be a slightly odd thing, but um Well, I don't know. Our Lord did that, did he not?
SPEAKER_03Luke chapter five, he would withdraw to lonely places. Luke fifth Luke five, verse sixteen. Yeah, he would commonly withdraw to lonely places in the wilderness.
SPEAKER_02I suppose one of the challenges is trying to see how that's done positively without just being a sort of Ubenezer Scrooge, right? So Scrooge, you know, think about Charles Dickens.
SPEAKER_03Like like like what there there must be a positive kind of sense of introspection, a positive sense of being on your own. Yeah. You know, Blaise Pascal said uh all of life's problems stem from one issue. A man cannot be in his room by himself alone. You know. Yeah, yeah. And then he went on to say, you know, we constantly need divergence and distractions, and it's a it's a very convicting thing for 21st century people to read because of course we do need the distractions.
SPEAKER_02And we and and the you know, the Augustine quote about our hearts to rest our hearts are restless until we find a rest in thee. And so the prospect of being on your own and being alone unless you know that your aloneness is not fully. So Jesus went to lonely places, but why where was he? He was in communion with his father. Yes. So so he's living in a in in his father's world, yes, and he is he's never truly alone. I mean, obviously the cross, you know, we would say this this is the sort of isolated moment, right? Yes. Um when when when heaven and earth are both kind of shot out against him. Right. That's when that's when someone is truly, truly alone. But when Jesus withdraws to to pray, yes, he's a he is socially isolated in in terms of other human beings. Um but he's with his father and he's not doing it because he doesn't like people.
SPEAKER_03No, right, you know, it's not a miserly thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean the context in Luke 5 is interesting because all the crowds are coming to Jesus and all the disciples are getting excited. It's like this is it. The platform is building. Come on, your clout is through the roof, Jesus. Now is the time to launch you know, Jesus of Nazareth, end time ministries, we're gonna take this, you know, to the take this to the Romans and and go viral. And it's precisely at that moment that he withdraws to lonely places to be with his father. And I and I think, you know, and that sort of impetus kind of birthed this movement called you've got the monarchoi, the the those who are alone. And literally it's the word monk. And we get the word monk from from the Greek word for being alone. And now obviously there were some weird incarnations of that, yeah. Where you get, you know, like the stylites who just want to be alone up on a pillar on a bowl. Like Simon the style is amazing, the seventh-century guy in Syria who went up there for something, I think, like 37 years. I think he went through 37 Syrian winters, 37 Syrian summers, eating just yogurt and flatbread. And people would come to him from from far and wide to ask his wisdom on things.
SPEAKER_02Because if any if anyone would know, it'll be him.
SPEAKER_03I'm having troubles with my girlfriend. Can you do that?
SPEAKER_02But then, yeah, and in our own day, uh the the great American David Blaine went in a Pursebacks box next to Tower Bridge. Yes. I don't know if he did it for quite as long, but yeah, he sort of isolated himself right up there, very COVID safe, up in his little Pursex box. But yes, I think obviously what Mary is is talking about and what Linking Lives UK is seeking to um alleviate is the the issue of loneliness, that feeling of of of dread at
SPEAKER_03your own your your own company being the only company you're gonna have yes yeah I mean that that that is very sad especially if you want to be connected to people yeah and and you can't be and that that story she told about you know one of her own patients a fort goes a fortnight without any contact and it's just a phone call a phone call every two weeks from a family member and that's the only and I I you know I I see some of the issue of GP surgeries being oversubscribed has got to be because of this loneliness this social isolation you know people who else are they gonna talk to yeah and and of course because loneliness seems to be linked um to so many other medical conditions and illnesses that that's as you were saying the only way that we're gonna find out about the loneliness problem is because there's another presenting issue which is told to the doctor and then the doctor asks some more diagnostic questions and finds out this person hasn't hasn't got anyone to talk to so they're the network of support that is there and you take for granted when it's there when it's taken away people find themselves I mean you think about how much of of the problems of alcohol come from people who are lonely and so they drink to alleviate that or to feel better about it and then of course that makes them less attractive to be around and then makes it worse and and they just end up in a vicious cycle where yes no one to turn to in a way. Digital gnosis is on fire Nathan uh bringing the Latin heat interior intermo meo et superior summo um that's like that's like Augustine kind of it's got God is like closer to me than I am to myself I think I think it's that that kind of idea. But I mean so that's interesting in in that sort of monastic tradition and the Augustinian tradition is there is an interiority that is invented. So Larry Sidentop wrote a um a book in 2014 talking about the inventing the individual and how Christianity kind of invented the individual in in this sort of sense that in the ancient world you simply are your family you are your social relations. As soon as I tell you that I am a woman or a slave or a citizen or you know what like I've told you pretty much I've exhausted my identity yeah um and there is no interior me to descend into. Yeah and actually you know so Christ in his um in his standing with the father he he invites the disciples to that which is a um a beautiful thing. So again like like you preached on Sunday about the feeding of the 5,000 and the beautiful scene at the at the heart of the crowd that's just you know hungry and just asking for stuff is is this solitude of the son with his father. Yeah an incredibly attractive thing. And from that though there is the feast yeah and and out it sort of goes and and I do think that historically we have had the birthing of the individual from this sense of Christ with his father that I'm invited into.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And then the monks that you know some of them be just lived out in the wilderness and by themselves but pretty soon they actually developed you know yeah certainly the Western monastic tradition becomes now about the a brotherhood of monks who live together work together and embrace their their physicality as opposed to a sort of more eastern you know tradition which it sort of doesn't really see the physical as being something to celebrate it's it's trying to sort of become incorporeal there's like escape from the the physical world at at some level um but it's interesting when you talk about the the Christianity invents the individual or it gives to the Western world the sense of individuality that now the Western world run rampant with a million miles an hour we're just gonna run with this we're just an individual yeah but then you think well in in the other cultures that we are aware of which prize family and community much more we see something we're really lacking in the West and we just sort of think wow you know this this sense of family the sense of community um the people are are cared for and looked after and the elderly respected I mean that bring it back to the elderly again but once as you say your identity is consumed or or or used up by your your tribal group or your family the the possibility of you being crushed if that turns tyrannical that you your sense the the the rights of the individual being lost in the kind of sea of of of the family identity. And now the the hierarchy of the family could become something that that that crushes people and and uses people in a way and so the the the the good news of the gospel is that we have both at they are equi primordial to the phrase you taught me the other day that both both unity and diversity are are fundamentally basic to reality. Right the one and the many using far too many words I sound ridiculous but but the one and the many the tr the triune God Father Son and Spirit as the God who is that accounts for our need to be part of a community part of a group to have people to share the meal with but it also accounts for our our dignity as individuals and our value.
SPEAKER_03Yes yes and I'm not interchangeable with any other member of that group. Yes you know I'm still me in the community we are a community of persons with an inviolable dignity and you know I I just love the book by Colin Gunton The One, the three and the many and he just talks about the history of Western philosophy is the tug of war between the one and the many. And some philosophers are very much into the unity and some are very much into the diversity and in the West with hyper individualism we we we kind of go towards the many. And and I think our our vision of equality for instance has been something that has been derived from Christianity but it's become you know each of us needs to be equally high up the same ladder or equal equally high up you know my own particular ladder and you're up your ladder and you know Sarah's up her ladder and and up we go. But ladders everywhere there's ladders everywhere just climbing toward claiming our rights. Yeah my individual rights that are to be asserted constantly but that's incredibly atomistic. Yeah whereas in the scriptures I think what you get is communion yeah and that communion me the the individual that I am the person that I am I am invited to lose myself to find myself yeah and both those sides of things are are are true. I I I come not claiming my rights but but actually like begging for mercy. Yeah and then I receive and and having given up my rights to be part of the party suddenly I'm invited as a free guest and I'm in with communion with other people and we share we are equally welcome at the same table rather than equally you know high up the same ladders and in communion ultimately there's the communion in the Father Son and the Holy Spirit and then in Christ that is offered to me his body and blood are offered you know to me that I might feast on Jesus and be part of you know the ultimate community suddenly the one and the many are put together so that um I can't be who I am in isolation from other people because I do you know my being is in communion with others just as God's being is in communion. But neither is the community this sort of crushing reality where my individual identity gets lost in the shuffle. You know it's it's it's the one and the many and and the the three is the the solution to that. So we we have a solution to that but it's not um I do I do wonder whether some of why we don't like aloneness or solitude is because we think ah if I was if I'm just in solitude I'll be bored yeah I won't have as much stimulation or entertainment. And that's the bad thing about solitude.
SPEAKER_02Yeah which I think that's not what's bad about solitude you know no no and and if the the the idea that you're you're stuck in yourself if if the entertainment and the diversion the distraction and the interruption is just pulled into yourself and you feed on it you bring it in it's still very very isolating. Yes whereas there's that the what in i to use another Latin phrase incavatis in se right so that the human heart is turned in on itself we we're not turned out towards God and to others right we've folded ourselves in and if if my problem with with isolation or or loneliness is the fact that it would be boring is still just this very interesting sense that well I'm just looking to feed off right off some distractions and entertainment. Right. Whereas there's something that about the gospel which says no no you can be other focused and you can take an interest in the person sitting across the table from you and you can you can find something else out you can be in relationship with them.
SPEAKER_03And therefore when you're calling the socially isolated person into communic community it's not just I'm doing them a good turn by visiting them. Yeah it's that they actually have something to bless me with.
SPEAKER_02Exactly yeah and that's one of the things that Mary Mary talks about which is the fact that those who who sign up through linking lives and you know go through the application process and become I don't know what they call those who befrienders. It's such a strange word befriend befriending friends I'm sure those who become friends with those who are socially isolated or lonely find they're often surprised by the great benefit they get right in getting to know this other human being made in the image of God.
SPEAKER_03Oh I mean I I remember visiting Fred you know when I was curate at all souls and um Fred was 93 with this he was a farmer all his life just had this beautiful west country burr and couldn't couldn't see to read the Bible and so I just I'd just read stories from the gospels from him and and I'd be like what do you think this one's about Fred and he'd always he'd always say spoke no in the lawride I should expect probably right probably right I and I I can't I almost I almost can't read any like story from the gospels without thinking spout no in the law I should expect and just thinking that it you're right that is what I should expect yeah every single passage I'm reading about from the gospels I should and honestly I was I was like the first time he said I was just sort of drove drove home and think Fred is so right it's like I should expect every single passage to be about knowing the look and he he blessed me so much. But I mean the sad thing about his story was that he he went from one old people's home to another and his his daughters you know put him into this old people's home that in the end killed him. I mean it just it absolutely reeked of urine it was just the most horrible place for him to be and having been happy in this one other home they couldn't afford it anymore put him in this other home he lasted six weeks and just died you know and just and you know the his daughters didn't visit him that much and it was it was it was it was a very um it was it was a real eye opener yeah to me about where people can end up in life and he he had family in the same town right and they weren't still but still you know and um digital noser says uh I wish churches would do more to organize social community events where people are treated as ends and not means to conversion community meals etc um I I agree community meals are a beautiful thing and lots of churches doing lots of churches have had to not do them for the last two years and it's just obliterated ministry to the elderly in the last two years obliterated and and it's not the it's not the exciting ministry that people are going to say look our numbers are down with the elderly we need to go out and get them right who's saying that in you know sort of we we how do we get the old people in yes we've got to get the old people in the old people in yeah and you know with the the the ages of people in the UK you know rising on average yeah as we get an aging population that's that the evangelistic strategy of the church needs to take very very seriously yeah and and and to be fair to be fair to um uh Nathan who's digital gnosis yeah um is is calling it an evangelistic strategy you know a bait and switch way oh you can you can have a hot nice hot meal every Wednesday lock the doors and we're going to cut you off mid mid-mouthful and say right now we've got something we want to share with you and of course it can be done horribly it can be done in an incredibly clumsy way and it and in a way that doesn't take seriously the people they're speaking you're speaking to and it doesn't take seriously the nature of the event right the nature of the case of a meal is that there's a conversation that happens meals with speeches are an odd thing in it in a way and and usually have all sorts of other formality attached to them but and speak those speeches are generally quite short and usually quite entertaining because you're having a meal together yeah they're not usually a kind of right you need to change change your mind you know and do something else. I often think it's it's like the difference between gaining converts and offering Christ and you can you can put on the exact same thing yeah and your goal is gaining converts which is like I'm empty and I need I need people in through the door and to to to suck them in as opposed to well let's just offer Christ we offer life together we offer food we offer friendship we offer fellowship and we offer Jesus who we think is great yeah and it's all from fullness we offer out rather than from emptiness we kind of you know yank people in I I think that's yeah it if we just go back to the the particular issue around the elderly as I've called them the invisible people and um I got some pushback for that.
SPEAKER_02Are they really invisible? I was like well they kind of are there's one over there and you can't see no but the the idea that um so so particularly the the character in in Chris Mouse is a widow yes and I've always been struck by that the word widow because it takes you to a wedding and a funeral in one word it's an incredibly full word it's pregnant with so much there's a story right there as soon as you someone's a widow by the nature of the case and and in in the the chris miles film we sort of explore you know that a little bit it's only a four minute film but it you know we touch on it and thinking about how much of the Bible features widows. So you think the entire you know book of Ruth you've certainly got the the widows and their involvement in the community meal as as Nathan mentioned uh in Acts you know the the Grecian uh widows and our people being overlooked in the distribution of food um you know the the the religion of of Christ the church of Christ is to reach out to the orphan and the widow James one looking for the vulnerable looking for those um who are in need and reaching out to them and I think it's it's so interesting that you know obviously we've we've got all the technology here and some of the time we make it work and people think oh it must be just about the young and it must be just but actually there's something about us using these things to highlight things that people might not you know naturally think about.
SPEAKER_03Yeah yeah I mean it's it's not only Nathan who is watching I mean we we have 21 current viewers but Nathan is beasting the comments he says it has it it has to be about treating people as ends in themselves intrinsically worthwhile and not as means to ends potential candidates for conversions um I I think that's that's exactly right and but that's exactly what the challenge is for ministry to the elderly because if you put on a great kids club well then mum might come along and if mum comes along then maybe dad comes along and maybe they'll be you know there'll be donors or whatever like like like you could totally you know you could you could put a value on that kind of ministry yeah if you if you're thinking in terms of means towards an end. Yeah but if you're thinking of sitting with Fred and reading the Bible with Fred you know um that's not that's not glamorous ministry.
SPEAKER_02It's not anything that anyone sees um yeah and and of course no one sees it because they're invisible people can't see them. If you throw a sheet over them though or maybe talk compelling but the other but then they become but I was also thinking about this when you're looking around your town center or whatever it is town center your town are you center sorry okay did I emphasize the wrong Santa no I thought around so if you are visiting Santa in the center of town he's an invisible old man because he's not but why you know he's about the only old man that we will let but if you look around you think okay so look at all the individual people here and see them as individual people see them as people with with concerns and issues and worries and you know and and I actually found myself doing that in church to sit in church and to look around and go okay can I consider that person who who I'm not trying to get something from them I'm just thinking about them um and their worth and their value and the interest the story that they they've lived and yeah just just the the excitement of knowing that God has made so many people and they're they've got inherent dignity and value yeah and would be worth worth my time. Yes it's such an and I'm speaking as somebody who has no empathy whatsoever. Yeah that's true that's just we've we've proved that scientifically it has been proved scientifically I've also realized why why I think the old people aren't helping themselves I think I know what it is and I think and this is one thing I need to work on is my ability to listen to someone telling me a story of a doctor's appointment without just losing the will to live.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Because there's a lot of time where there'll be a story that's going one direction and more details being added the details being questioned changed and we're never quite landing where I story have a point Maureen is there is this going somewhere Maureen yeah this is why Nate's uh deals with the youth mainly but I but I think sometimes people tell you things because you need to know them and sometimes people tell you things because they need to say them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah and that's a massive difference.
SPEAKER_03Yeah and for me to basically learn okay someone just needs to tell me because they think it's important and I can sit there and go okay and just try I'm not very good at faking the the interest though that's the problem I'm married to a lady who's incredibly good at that so very good at listening but no but then but then you'll get a Fred who tells you things that you didn't know you needed to know. Yeah you know who yeah from another from another generation. JCO5 asks what does this look like specifically especially with COVID um and that that is a challenge I you know I think um it depends how willing they are for visits how willing they are to maybe go for a walk somewhere if they're not if they're not happy with actual physical proximity then you you you need to get on the phone like a lot. Yeah. Uh and a lot more than you think you do.
SPEAKER_02And and that's where I think the fact we're obviously not experts, clearly not experts at this. Um we'll find out what we're experts in at some stage, but this is not it. But that's why we wanted to link with uh Linking Lives, yeah, because they do know what they're doing with this. They've got you know ways, they've got experience of doing this, and and you know, as Mary sort of says, there are various uh Linking Lives organ uh groups around the country and other charities which are doing work in this in this area. Yeah, and there's a lot for us to learn.
SPEAKER_03LinkingLives.uk um is the place to go, and uh there we found statistics like this. Did you know that 15 cigarettes a day has the same effect on your health as loneliness living alone and poor social connections? That's fifteen cigarettes a day. Um sort of more than half a pack.
SPEAKER_02Sorry, give me the statistic again.
SPEAKER_03I'll put it the other way around. Okay. So loneliness living alone and poor social connections has the same effect on your health as 15 cigarettes a day. Well, okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So if you saw someone smoking 15 cigarettes a day, yeah, you probably say, I'm sorry, that's incredibly bad for you. You shouldn't think about quitting. Well, you sort of but if you I mean if you're seeing someone smoke all 15 in one day, you probably know them quite well, right?
SPEAKER_03I do, my neighbor does. Okay. She's just yeah, because she she can't smoke in her home because it's a rental. So she's she's out on the porch and we we share, we share front doors, and so she's just out. And yeah, like it's it's it's terrible for her lungs. I hope it'll be good for her soul at some stage.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, as a as a serious, you know, yeah illness, a serious health issue. Bad for your health.
SPEAKER_03Bad for your health. 3.9 million people aged 60 plus say television is their main company. That's such a tragedy. They need TikTok. They they just need to television so out of date. Scroll. Yeah. But it it it is interesting, like okay, so the Blaise Pascal thing, no one can sit in their room quietly by themselves. Yeah, and some people scroll through Instagram and some people have the TV on, like the entire time. Like, and and they're both similar kind of diversions, really. But yeah, almost four million people say television is their main company, four million people aged over 60. Uh 26% increase in your risk of death if you suffer from loneliness. Um half a million older people go at least five or six days a week without seeing or speaking to anyone else at all. Just like uh the patient who Mary was speaking about. Every fortnight they get a phone call. 79% of people in the UK experiencing loneliness are experiencing loneliness as the result of the pandemic. 79% of people that's all people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, four-fifths. 45% of adults in England feel occasionally, sometimes or often lonely. This equates to 25 million people. 59% of those aged 85 and over um live alone in England. 60% of those over 85. So huge issue. Yeah. Hence calling it the pandemic that no one's talking about. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um and interesting that obviously our experience of of you know bringing back to Christmas, Christmas 2020. Everyone went, that was horrible. I didn't like that at all. So it seems as though all the the the advertising now has I mean, particularly the Tesco's ad. I don't know if we've we can put that up, but it's basically people saying that was awful, so nothing's gonna stop us from celebrating the most Christmassy Christmas ever. And we're gonna party like there's no tomorrow because we missed our opportunity. Now I think that's a missed opportunity for saying didn't we learn anything from this? That none of us liked it when we were alone. So why do we look out for the people who are a lot gonna be alone this year? Rather than just thinking, oh great, now I finally get to have Christmas with the person I didn't see last year. Right. To say, well, who might be having Christmas alone this year, even though restrictions in various parts of the world will have been lifted or got rid of entirely.
SPEAKER_03It's yeah, it's very much people thinking it's time to get our Christmas on and to make up for the last year or two. Um so that that's the the thing that Tesco went with. I think it's interesting as we watch this um Christmas ad that Tesco put out, what is the view of the elderly woman that they are portraying? Let's have a look.
SPEAKER_00Uh hi, it's Jack back, I'm afraid, because the Tesco ad doesn't really translate well into the Speak Life podcast, so I have to cut in. Uh, the ad in question that Glenn and Nate will be discussing when we get back involves a bunch of people uh doing things to Queen's song Don't Stop Me Now. And the old lady in question is uh offered some help, but she puts on a pair of goggles and refuses because well, she's unstoppable. So uh they'll be discussing that when we get back. In the meantime, I just wanted to let you know that Speak Life is an organization that exists primarily because of generosity that is expressed from people like you. So if you can give anything to our organization, it would really mean a lot to us and help us out a great deal. If you are willing to do that, then please go to speaklife.org.uk forward slash give. Any regular donation that you give uh gets you access to our Discord server where regular supporters hear news, share prayer requests, discuss episodes, and get access to exclusive content. We're always happy to have more people on board in our community, so if you would like to do that, then you would be very welcome. So if that sounds good, uh please help out with that and uh have fun. In the meantime, uh let's get back to the podcast.
SPEAKER_03So very much the sense of nothing's gonna stop us having a Christmas blowout in 2021.
SPEAKER_02Um I mean it's a nice I get this like I totally get the sentiment, right? I like we've you know I mean it caused some there were some issues around Santa's COVID passport. Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. A little bit of it, yeah. It's just like, oh, okay.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, yeah. The question is, what is the view of the older woman in this? Yeah. And I think we we kind of she's got a sparkle in her eye, and she's a lot of fun because she's on the electric scooter and away she goes. Scooter granny. And she acts like a teenager. And everyone goes, aren't old people great when they do what young people do?
SPEAKER_02You know, and old people doing young people things.
SPEAKER_03I love that. Don't you love old people? So adorable when they love old young idiots. And it's like the only time old people are ever in my Facebook feed is when the seven-year-old runs the marathon, or the eight-year-olds are into speed dating, or the 90-year-old does slam dance competitions, or whatever it is. Yeah, and it's like, aren't old people great? Aren't they fantastic when they act like young idiots? And like this is the only we have no time for any sense of their wisdom, their experience, their maturity. That's not what we what we value them for. They only show up on our radar screen if they ride an electric scooter, yeah, because we've got a cult of youth.
SPEAKER_02And yeah, and and the old person is has to be there's a sweetness, right? They're sweet and aren't they adorable and little and and all that sort of stuff. And yes, the possibility that they might break with the stereotype, which is now its own stereotype, of the you know, scooter and granny. And you think, this is a shame. This is a real shame because we're we're missing out on the wisdom.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because old people being old is nice too, says Christoph Keating. But we we kind of we kind of forget that when we have a cult of youth and our magazine covers are just emblazoned with 17-year-old models who look like 12-year-old girls who are trying to sell you on the side seven signs of aging. You're like, come on. Yeah, yeah. You know, we we have no sense of we have no sense of the elderly and their age and their wisdom and the grey head that is a crown of glory. And Christoph Keating has just said, even nostalgia isn't what it used to be. See what you've done there. Yeah. See what you see what you've done there, Christoph. But there's also something Christoph said. Um, he says, uh, nothing's stopping us from consumption. Um now there is something to be said for having a very carnal Christmas. Um because it is about the incarnation. Yeah. Uh as it is, you know, it's about God becoming meat and feasting with us. And we have we have a feast to remember when God became flesh to dwell among us. So to have a very carnal Christmas is is good.
SPEAKER_02And yeah, and it there's an interesting thing though, obviously, the whole advent period.
SPEAKER_04Forget about that.
SPEAKER_02It's just gonna be Christmas. It's just gonna be Christmas for 25 days, yeah. And then we'll get to the end of the month as well.
SPEAKER_03And then we'll get to boxing day. We're done. Yeah, yeah. Put the put the three. It's only the second day of Christmas. No, trees going back in the in the ceiling, right?
SPEAKER_02So having uh yeah, maybe 24 days of of of advent and then 12 days to feast.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, with 12 lords are leaping and all the rest of it. All the ladies dance, old ladies, I hope.
SPEAKER_02Dancing like I don't know, like teenagers.
SPEAKER_03Like old ladies, no, like actual all the wisdom and experience that they have, yeah. Yeah, that's uh yeah, we we should do another show on on Christmas and yes, the the the the way we're sick of it by about the December the 23rd.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean it's the point where yeah, releasing the the Speed Life film this year on on Friday. Black Friday and you feel Black Friday, look out for our Black Friday deal of watching a film for four and a half minutes. Um but yeah, that that's that idea that oh, do we actually just miss the boat? Are people actually sick of Christmas even before December's begun? Yeah, just like right. Oh, totally, had too many mince pies already.
SPEAKER_03Totally, totally. But we have an opportunity and it is a joy and it's a privilege to now give the reason for the season. Um, guys, you can uh follow us on all the socials, well, most of the socials Twitter and Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. We are Speak Life UK, we are Speak Life Media here on YouTube. Um please do um subscribe to the channel and do tap the bell. That really makes a difference to um you hearing about our videos. And you will not want to miss Friday when we release Chris Mouse. Release the mouse. We will release the mouse. So um do be thinking about uh who you can share that film with on Friday. We'd love to give it a real push out there. And the the closer to its release um on Friday that you can share it, uh, the more you let YouTube know that it's a winner and it will show it to more and more people. Um if you want to give towards speaklife, you can go to speaklife.org.uk slash give, and there are plenty of ways of uh supporting our ministry, whether as a one-off gift or as a regular donor. If you're a regular donor, you get access to uh a lot of our behind-the-scenes stuff. You get onto our Discord server where we have exclusive content and we have all sorts of chat and community and prayer, and uh it's been lit this week.
SPEAKER_02It's been lit. We've got some new off the chain fresh injections.
SPEAKER_03It's gone off like a frog in the sun.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_03I don't know.
SPEAKER_02That's a really great reason to come and join the Discord.
SPEAKER_03So you can find all those things at speaklife.org.uk slash give Nate Morgan luck. Thank you for joining us. Thank you very much, Glenn Scrivner. And we will see you all again next Monday. See you later. Bye bye.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, Glenn. Thanks, Nate, and uh thank you. Thank you very much for watching. Uh listening, listening to the podcast, not a video. So thank you very much for listening to this episode of the Speak Life Podcast. We hope you enjoyed. And uh yes, this Christmas video that we've made, we're very excited about it and very proud of it. So um we would love it so much if you could share it with as many people as you can. The more people who know about this video, the more it spreads, the more views it gets, and uh the more that our hard work pays off. So please do uh share the Christmas film around. You can find it at speaklife.org.uk forward slash Chris Mouse. That's Christmas but with mouse instead of the M A S. We would very much appreciate it. Uh thank you very much for listening and uh yeah, please do share that around for us. Uh it would mean a lot, and uh, we're very grateful. So um yeah, until next time, uh catch you then.