Hello and welcome to the Speak Life Podcast. My name is Thomas Thorgood. I work at Speak Life. And a bit of a bonus episode, really, today, because we put one out at the start of the week, a sermon that Glenn did over the Christmas break. And then on Thursday, Epiphany, the 6th of Jan, Glenn and Nate decided to do a speakeasy about Epiphany. Epiphany, Epiphany. It's a hard word to say. But that's going to be the subject of this episode of the podcast. That's the conversation you're going to hear. So I hope you enjoy it. Just a note to say there were some issues with Glenn's mic for the first portion of the episode. We changed the mic uh midway through, and it's a lot more consistent after that. You'll hear Nate say a new mic for Reverend Glenn Scrivener. And then from that point it's it's okay. So there's a bit of a hiss on Glenn's mic at the start, so we're sorry about that. We're aware that with these tech kind of things, you don't want to notice the tech. You don't want to be aware that these conversations are being recorded with microphones. You just want to listen to a conversation. And if the levels are all over the place or if there's a hiss, it's very distracting. So we're conscious of that, and we will do our very best to prevent that from happening in future episodes. But thank you very much for joining us. I will catch you midway through the episode.
SPEAKER_02We are here to make sixth sense, which was an excellent pun uh made by Thomas Thorogood here at Speaker. Well done, Thomas. Making Sixth Sense. Speaking about January the Sixth, and uh according to Kamala Harris, it will pass into infamy as a day just like 9-11, just like uh Pearl Harbor. People will say January the 6th because of what happened at the Capitol building one year ago. Um but also in church history it is known as Epiphany.
SPEAKER_01Uh Epiphany uh basically refers to the visit of the Magi. Right. So it's to sum that up, is to say that that's when they arrive and they are Gentiles, so that's a significant thing because it's the first time we get Gentiles interacting with the incarnate son of God.
SPEAKER_02It's an appearance, it's a yeah, yeah. Something has has brought itself to their attention and they cannot take their eyes off it. It has appeared to them, it has manifested to them. Um and it's made us think, okay, uh are there ways in which January 6th, 2021 was an appearance, or or what what is it that Epiphany, this ancient feast?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, this is the thing because obviously we're connecting together now. This it seems like it's gonna be an annual commemoration or acknowledgement or whatever they're gonna do. Who's in power? Yeah, yeah. Um but in the same way, the the 6th of January is going to seemingly fit into the American civic calendar in a similar way to November the 5th, would appear in the in the British calendars, remembering Guy Forks and the gunpowder plot. But I suppose what's interesting is we're we're going to talk today about Epiphany, which happens to be on the same date, and we are going to be drawing some thematic, symbolic themes which are similar, we think, between the the events on the Capitol Hill on Capitol Hill um in 2021 and the visit of the Magi as recorded for us in Matthew 2. But it is interesting that I wonder whether it do you think there's much of a connection between the idea of um epiphany and and revelation which comes from the what's it called Apocalypse, yeah, yeah, apocalypse, the unveiling, yeah. And so there's a sense in which people thought, I think the reason why so many of the images from last year, today last year, were so vivid and so strong was because it felt like for a lot of people this was finally the the the unmasking of of Trumpism finally it was shown for what it was, and what what was it? It was the Q ⁇ An shaman with his bare skin hat and his horns and his face painted like you know William Wallace in Braveheart, stripped to the waist with a megaphone, sort of shrieking out his war cry. That was sort of felt like, I think, for the public imagination, an unveil. This was really what was going on all along, and finally it's shown itself in its true colours. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And and yet there were there were so many evocative images as as well. I mean, there were gallows erected, you know, on the lawns of the Capitol, um, you know, there were Confederate flags next to Jesus Saved, you know, next to Stop the Steal and you know, calls for President Pence to be, you know, you know, brought to prison charges and and things like that. And and so it was there was just a confluence of so as with every every mob, you know, yeah, you you go to Acts chapter 22 and you you you see you see the mob at work and one people, you know, one lock out one thing, one lock out another thing, and nobody else knows why they're there. There are all sorts of people caught up in this. And yet there are also like militias, self-styled militias doing this, and then there are people who just got caught up in the QAnon thing, and you know, one woman you know had a heart attack, yeah. Who was there trampled in the crowd and and just seems to have gotten swept up and she was there for the Trump speech and and ends up there. And so like we we we want a clear narrative of this is this is what's going on, but in a sense, the mess is part of what we'll remember.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I mean the chaos of it and the sense that it was this sort of unfolding thing. I mean, in one sense it was interesting because it it was over very quickly, it was a very, very short-lived moment of madness and moment of chaos, because you know, the meeting that was interrupted in the Capitol building continued later on that day because after all the melee and all the the the breaching of the Capitol building, um was it the National Guard had then been mobilized.
SPEAKER_02Only four hours later they were mobilized. Because the optics were bad, because it it would look like it was a crisis. Yeah. Well, guess what?
SPEAKER_01It was, you know. And the fact that then it was um it was then cleared that so the meeting then continued, albeit obviously with a lot of people very shaken up and having kind of been ferreted away into different rooms. But it there was there was in that sense it was this short, sharp shock of of of madness and and m rioting and mob mentality. But then, of course, because it's now going to be replayed seemingly year after year. I mean, if one thing that I learned in America is Americans love reenacting things, okay. They really, really do. So we didn't live too far from Gettysburg, and so you were constantly aware of the reenactments of Civil War, you know, um battles and things like that, and the the the sort of American historians who were sort of investigating every single detail of this, but of course, most of us don't investigate the detail, we're looking for the the big picture, the symbol, the headline, the the the front page picture. And I think that seems to be the thing that lingers and lasts, yeah, even if some of the details well, actually, there's all sorts of other things that were going on at the same time. So that challenge of of dealing with the the symbolism and the the effectively the myth of of what happened, not say that it didn't happen at all, but to say the power of that story versus the kind of forensic, okay, what was going on, what was this, how was this, you know. Yeah, yeah. And we live in that world, we always live in that world. Yes, exactly. Where we have to relate the the symbolic and the sort of historic.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Which is why when Kamala Harris said, you know, it will live together with 9-11 and and Pearl Harbor, yeah. That's because, okay, here's American soil and the you know the ships are taken out by the Japanese, okay. Or you know, where where does Al-Qaeda aim for? Twin Towers, yeah, Pentagon, White House, yeah, yeah. You know, the symbolism of it is is the very point of it. Yeah. And it's and you know, the there would be more concentrated, you know, places where people were than the Pentagon, for instance, but it's it's the symbolism, yeah, and then the symbolism of a temp a modern temple. Can we say well absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean you know, we uh yes, you go and visit it and you sort of could be convinced that it was, you know, based on St. Paul's Cathedral. It's certainly got that same sort of architectural approach. Now, I mean what's interesting is that this the events of of January the sixth, twenty twenty one will have a lasting legacy in a way that other civic disturbances, federal buildings being attacked through you know the early the years the year prior to that won't have because of the symbolism of the Capitol building. Yeah, because of the it's a it's the sacred place, as you say, is the temple, and there was the abomination that caused right there in the middle. Yeah, yeah. Because those people do not enter this place. Right. The people who enter this place are respectable, are respectful, are you know the sacred space, you know, live in in um in honor and or at least civil. Do you know what I mean? Whereas there was nothing about those events that was civil.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, and I I I I do I do like that um uh comparison with Guy Fork's as well, in terms of um it was failed, it was there was something pathetic about it and threatening about it, yeah, all at the same time. Um and I and I think it's it in commenting on it, it's difficult to strike both those notes. Yes. That it was really pathetic. And it was really scary, yeah, you know, and and you can't watch the the the cell phone footage without thinking, oh my goodness, to to be there would be to be swept up in a lot of madness. And if they had if they had have got their hands on Nancy Pelosi, what would have happened? If they had have got their hands on Mike Pence, what would have happened? Who knows? But the fact that they didn't um and and the fact that we have that question speaks both to the patheticness of it but also the scariness of it.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and I think I think you know, think about the gunpowder plot. You know, clearly there's a group of people who were involved in planning that for a considerable period of time. Now, I don't know how many people were involved in in really thinking through carefully what they planned to do on the 6th of January 2021. But the I suppose the difference is once you have a mob, once you have a group of people who are feeling um, we keep saying ostrich sized because I can't say ostracized very quickly. So a lot of people feeling ostrich-sized and feeling angry and feeling emboldened because Trump has just given some speech which has in no way calmed things down whatsoever, in many ways, sort of encouraged what was happening. And they go in there and they haven't got a plan, and they're full of it, and it felt to me the closest I think I would have come to it is a kind of I don't know, sort of schoolboys breaking into the memorial hall, you know, late one night and trying on a bunch of like old school caps and stuff. Do you know like a a sort of no one quite knows what the next person's gonna do. And they're sort of egging each other on, and there's a kind of and some people are just taking set selfies, and other people have got a real plan because they're gonna go find someone and take them out.
SPEAKER_02I mean the the the one thing was to stop the stop the steal, right? Yeah. Like because the the vote was gonna get ratified in Congress, and you know, and you know, Trump even portrays Pence as a traitor in doing that. And and and so and in a sense they delay that, or they you know that that's their little victory.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then after that, there's the euphoria of they they kind of they stopped the steal. Um and then finally the National Guard comes and finally there's a preparedness from the National Security Services. That should absolutely been much much better preparedness from National Security. But yeah, uh beyond stopping them signing the piece of paper, what's the plan? What do you guys want to do? This is yeah. This is um Yeah, so that's that's good. I like I like the November the 5th gunpowder and plot. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and expos exposed, you know, in one sense, that Trump was was, I suppose, exposed by this kind of this patheticness in lots of ways behind what you know, so uh Rudy Giuliani's, you know. The hair dye coming down when he's in a press conference, then booking the four seasons landscaping outside Philadelphia instead of booking, you know, which it just it's a sort of it's like VEP or it's like in the thick of it, you sort of can't believe that things could be that pathetic. And in a way, we don't want them. We we want rulers, we want leaders who are strong and who are competent and who do the right thing. And when we get the wrong leaders, well let's hope they're at least impotent, right? Let's hope that they haven't got a clue what they're doing and they're pathetic and useless because then that they're actually less dangerous in a way. Um and so the impotency, I think, of of I mean it's interesting. Just sorry, just d I know we actually want to talk about epiphany, but just back on that. When Trump had the the the election debate with Biden, I think it was the second one, and it was an absolute kind of garbage can fire of a debate, and they just talked over each other, it just descended into sort of chaos. There was a a question right at the end of the debate in which Trump basically said, I'm not going to accept we shouldn't accept the result of this, or he questioned the validity of the election before it happened. And at that point you just go, Right, you're never you're not gonna accept this. It it's not gonna happen. Little change of microphones for the Reverend Scrivener here. Anyway, we don't need to talk about that. We actually want to talk about the other January the sixth.
SPEAKER_02The other January the 6th, because that because I think uh it was exactly that questioning of the legitimacy of authority and the questioning of the legitimacy of who gets to rule us and on what basis. That's yeah, Trump's calling it a stolen election, you know, led to that, I think. Um and what I think we see in in Matthew 2, which is right at the heart of Epiphany, uh is the undermining of any sense that we, according to the flesh and according to our own strengths, have the legitimacy to rule. Yeah. Because what you've got in in Matthew 2 is Herod and the Magi. Yeah. And in the in the figure of Herod, let's let's have a look at um um what we've got with uh Matthew chapter 2. Um what we've got um in the story of the the the three kings as it's come to be known, uh, after Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem. So already like Magi versus Herod is kind of the big battle. One by the flesh is the king of the Jews, the others are like total outsiders. You could not think of like these are astrologers, these are magicians, these are Babylonian, and um, you know, people people who uh have always been the baddies, you know. And they came from the east, the place of estrangement, and they come to Zion, where Herod is meant to be ruling. And they ask, where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him. And and so clearly they're like, Well, it's not you. Yeah, yeah. Like the king of the Jews is not you. So, like, imagine the affront to to Herod's narcissism. When King Herod heard that he heard this, he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him. When he had called together all the people's chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Messiah was to be born. Like, surely the Bible guys, they're gonna set set things straight. Yeah. Right? And the Bible guys say, in Bethlehem in Judea, they replied, for this is what the prophet has written. But you, Bethlehem in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah, for out of you will come a ruler who will shepherd my people Israel. And of course, the shepherd imagery is just so huge in the scriptures. Um looking after the flock will be the marker of what a true king of the Jews is like, as opposed to Herod, who famously killed, I think, three of his sons. Um Caesar Augustus once said hilariously, uh, he would rather be Herod's pig than his son. Um and here was a man who was so despotic. He actually ordered for a nobleman to be killed on the day of his funeral, because he knew that no one would mourn him, but he commanded that there would be some kind of genuine mourning on his day of his death. So, like, let's kill somebody who people care about, so that there'll be tears at my funeral. That is quite the manipulative. That's uh that's who we're talking about. Yeah. But the Bible guys are on his side, and the Bible guys are like, Yeah, no, Micah 5, that's um it's very clear. The Old Testament scriptures, Bethlehem, that's where the Messiah's gonna be born. Yeah. Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. He sent them to Bethlehem and said, Go and search carefully for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me so that I too may go and worship him. So, you know, he can he can pretend to worship Jesus too, right? Yeah. Um Then we've got after the uh verse nine, after they heard the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen when it rose went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was. When they saw the star, they were overjoyed. On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshipped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh, and having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another route. So that's Epiphany.
SPEAKER_01And that and that's where we stop in the Bible reading, because as a general rule, for your Christmas carol service, you don't carry on.
SPEAKER_02You don't have a murder of the innocents. Yeah. Um I mean, we can go to verse 16. When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi. Then what was said through the Prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled, a voice is heard in Rama weeping in great mourning. So that's that's who Herod is. And and then so But this is just plugging into this massive theme in the scriptures that to trust in your authority on the basis of your own strength is kind of satanic. And here is the King of the Jews according to the flesh, trusting in his own might, absolutely petrified that the true King of the Jews will show up and wanting to do anything to kind of eliminate Christ from his kind of rule, and then you've got the magi who are embodying something very different from the East. Um what what do we learn about what do we learn about the magi? Like why why gold, frankincense, and myrrh, for instance?
SPEAKER_01Um so well magi was an interesting one because it's not the only time that that Greek word magoi, which is the plural of magoth, uh the wise men, it's not the only time it appears. Um it you can also find the Greek word in the Greek version of the Old Testament, the Sabbath origin, which frequently uses the word magoi in uh the book of Daniel to refer to the magicians mag magi magicians not magic ions but the he's magic magic um best magic astrologers all these kind of um exciting exciting people and they're involved in babylon where daniel as the great wise man of babylon has been raised up to the highest place and given sort of you know great sort of responsibility and has responsibility over these wise men and collected astrologers and all those sorts of people so it's it's just interesting when we can see that there is the reference to this I don't we call we want to call them a cast or class of people but this group of people in the old testament yeah and that gives us a clue as to what kind of people they are yeah but not only that we also get this the shape of what happens in Matthew 2 with the visit of the the wise man it keeps appearing in the Old Testament in the types and shadows and and you know Queen of Sheba visiting Solomon and um Psalm 72 and all those so so there's not only this group of people that you can sort of trace back and we've got a little quote about where some of them I've come from you've also got this repeated pattern of the nations coming to bow down and honour and worship um the one who is king over Israel.
SPEAKER_02Yeah which is glorious. Should we have a look at Psalm 72 because that's that's kind of part of where we get you know gold frankincense and the and the kings coming to worship uh Christ and it's uh it's just a beautiful psalm about the advent of Christ it's of Solomon so it's this sense of the Son of David but in this very messianic sense. Psalm 72 endow the king with your justice, O God, the royal son with your righteousness may he judge your people in righteousness your afflicted ones with justice. May the mountains bring prosperity to the people the hills the fruit of righteousness. May he defend the afflicted among the people and save the children of the needy again, you know like very different to Herod, that king of the Jews. He will you know it's the just and gentle rule of King Jesus as as the prayer book puts it. And may he crush the oppressor. May he endure as long as the sun, as long as the moon through all generations, may he be like rain falling on a moan field, like showers watering the earth. In his days may the righteous flourish and prosperity abound till the moon is no more. May he rule from sea to sea and from the river to the ends of the earth. May the desert tribes bow before him and his enemies lick the dust. May the kings of Tarshish and of distant shores bring tribute to him. May the kings of Sheba and Seba bring him gifts we might get back to that may all kings bow down to him and all nations serve him for he will for he will deliver the needy who cry out the afflicted who have no one to help. He will take pity on the weak and the needy and save the needy from death. He will rescue them from oppression and violence for precious is their blood in his sight. Long may he give may he live may gold from Sheba be given to him. May people ever pray for him and bless him all day long. May grain abound throughout the land on the tops of the hills may it sway. May the crops flourish like Lebanon and thrive like the grass of the field. May his name endure forever may it continue as long as the sun. Then all nations will be blessed through him and they will call him blessed. Praise be to the Lord God, the God of Israel who alone does marvellous deeds so there we go for the day isn't it it's a great one isn't it and you know on what basis does this ruler rule? It's actually you know the mercy towards the weak and the vulnerable and when he and when he crushes anybody it's the oppressor that he crushes.
SPEAKER_00Well it's the middle part of the episode I think people think about this middle segment of a podcast in two ways. Either they view it as the service station on a long drive and it's a time where you come out of the intense intellectual conversation and you just have a nice coffee and recharge and then you're raring to go back into the the intellectual conversation. So that might be how you view this middle segment. Alternatively you might view it as a toll gate on a motorway in that you hate it but you have to push through it in order to continue on your journey. Well however you view this segment it's here and we'll get through it together I did some research into our listeners the podcast analytics I thought start of a new year it would be good to see who listens to us so apparently 65% of our listeners are from the UK 14% from the US 9% Australia 2% Canada 1% New Zealand 1% Ireland and then Germany is our next biggest country 54 listens in the past five episodes and then Belgium then Singapore then South Africa so this blows my mind that we have listeners on every continent you know we throw this content out and we pray and we commit it into God's hands and most of the time we don't know who listens to our stuff. We don't know where it goes. So whoever you are wherever you are thank you so much for choosing to listen to this podcast. It's a huge encouragement to us whether you're a regular listener whether you've literally just stumbled upon this episode and decided to try it out we're so thankful that you are here. And why not get in touch? You can email us at infospeaklife.org.uk we're so thankful for all the support be it through engaging with our content be it through prayer and be it through any form of giving uh regular one off if you are interested in giving financially you can go to speaklife.org.uk forward slash give but I will hand you back to Glenn and Nate we're through the service station or the toll and then you get all the kings coming from everywhere Sheba and Seba are two of the places mentioned and gold and incense are are kind of mentioned.
SPEAKER_02Yeah and so we're starting to figure out why Matthew is talking about kings from the east or magi from the east and if if we do think that Daniel was there with the magi in Babylon then the scriptures were there in Babylon and there was there was a massive diaspora in Babylon especially in the in the in the intertestamental times so there's definitely Hebrew influence definitely the scriptures going out east and you just wonder whether that's sort of part of this global sense that a golden child's going to be born.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because even in Rome you've got that golden child you know you've got Virgil's fourth eclogue where he talks about the golden child's going to be born and bring in a golden age new age of saturn yeah something like that yeah yeah so it seems like the it seems like not just the people of gods but the nations are on tiptoe waiting for oh please can we have a ruler who will serve and bless and lift up the lowly um and the kings the Magi they seem to they find have hope.
SPEAKER_01Yes and they find him even though we would probably find them slightly odd yeah and a bit sort of funny looking peculiar um the magician like when I told Ruby like she was she was like the because we did the Lativity and she was like kings I was like well it doesn't actually say they're kings it says they're magi she says what's magi because what's like from the word magicians she was like they're magicians magic Ians they're all called Ian that Ian I'm gonna keep I love electric Ian or pediatric Ian is one of the things but what's interesting so what's fascinating with that is that magic now if you sort of talk about to to a lot of people about oh can you name any magicians they'll probably name a bunch of street mus magicians or people who kind of you know I mean who was the who was those Darren Brown yeah David David the guy Blaine yeah yeah sitting in a perspect box and but in a way I was thinking about this with reading um the Harry Potter books in one way that brought magic back into this idea of witches and funny hats and wizards and and wands and all that sort of stuff and it gave some kind of shape and colour and texture to this very foreign weirdy sounding world that most of us I think within you know evangelical circles feel weirded out by. Yeah. And so we often I think it's quite funny I was reading a chapter where the um the Dursleys who are I think the most interesting group of people they're trying to get to the bottom of why yet another you know crazy bunch of things have happened and they are concerned that there be no magic there be no kind of mystery there being everything is actually explainable and there's nothing out there that we don't understand and all this sort of stuff. And you just get this incredible comedy seeing people sort of who are so kind of tightly wound yes that anything be a bit weird.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah yeah that it just is such comedy. They're playing whack a mole with the supernatural and you can't you know you can't do it it overwhelms you and there's something really quite fun about the fact that every every year we encourage children across the UK to dress up as these weird you know magi and everyone are they kings are they just wise men how are you supposed to do and they get to wear the funny outfit yeah and they bring these little gifts which most of us don't understand.
SPEAKER_02Well they are the counterparts in so many ways to the shepherds um and in one sense the magi seem to be very wealthy whereas the shepherds were you know much more at the lower end of the socioeconomic scale more importantly they are gentiles where the the shepherds are Jews. Yeah and what's fascinating is to see okay how is God going to reveal himself to the Jewish shepherds okay angels and angels come and the glory shines around in this most unmistakable way and they are spoken to and sung to and it's a verbal proclamation. Whereas the Gentiles you get a pinprick of light and stars which are twinned with angels in lots of ways in the Bible because the heavenly host is not only a a term referring to the angelic armies it's also referring to the stars and you read in places like Revelation 12 where you know stars kind of well at one minute it's a star the next minute it's a it's an angel. Yes. But essentially the Gentiles they don't get the the speaking star. Yes they get the meat star.
SPEAKER_01Yeah and they there's a there's a sort of distance they are removed from them at that sense they're not being directly communicated with in in the sense that the angels come to particular shepherds and it's in uh voyage of the Dawn Treader where Lewis does that great thing about oh I've never met a star you know I didn't in our world stars are yeah stars are both of you like no no Eustace that's just what it's made of yeah that's not what a star is yeah it's um lovely bit I wanted I want to share a little bit from the Global Church History Project. Yes have you read any of this this stuff so yeah um uh several time guest on various speak life things uh Paul Blackham I think it's his son PJ heads up this thing called the Global Church History Project and it's available on Facebook and you can sort of look up the posts and things we'll we'll put a link to it um and I find it really interesting because in a sense keeping some of the weird yeah in in in our faith one of the ways that people find that in terms of seeing the depth the greater depth of of the gospel is by doing international mission work and you go and see the gospel as it's being lived out and and Christ being honored and worshipped around the world in different cultures but also put that into a historical context as well and it's doubly weird because it's not just a foreign land it's a foreign time and so um they he has this great thing on the 6th of January is the feast to celebrate Jesus as king of all the nations although the feast of epiphany celebrates a fact about Jesus himself there are three main saints we think about the three wise men and I did a longer post but I just want to read to you this is a great description from none other than the Saint Bede the Venerable the Venerable Bede. The Venerable Bede uh gave this memorable description of the the Magi um so I just want to read this and this is where the I think I don't know you can investigate it more but I think the traditional names of the Magi um come from here. So this is what Bede the Venerable says these are the Magi who gave the gifts the first was called Melchior old and aging with a full beard and long hair a violet robe a green cape and a pair of shoes with blue and white mixed together the work of many men right his I'm just imagining a a a kind of Quinton Tarantino thing right now reservoir dogs they're walking Mr Blonde right his turban was dressed in varying compositions he offered gold as for a king so you've got Melchior offering the gold old and aging full beard right and his clothing descriptions right the second's name was Caspar a young beardless red headed youth he wore a bright green robe a bright oh no I've lost it now a bright red cloak and blue shoes he offered the incense as an offering worthy of God right so you've got the colour of you're gonna have to remember these they'll be quite green blue okay primary colours going on the third called Balthazar name of my cat the name of Mr Scrivener's cat was black and had a full beard as my cat does a dark red robe interwoven with white he wore green shoes yes he offered up my for the son of man professing that he must die they all wore clothes of pure silk because they were pure men they covered themselves in purity. Awesome so beads we're talking about sixth century that is the full that is the full costume description for every nativity. If I go to a nativity next this year and I find out that Caspar is not wearing blue shoes I'll be like this is nonsense what on earth is it'd be a catwalk it's just fierce they are fierce. And but I love the venerable be uh venerable bead saying okay myrrh is because the Son of man must die yeah and uh yeah the bitter perfume yeah that uh because because golden frances frankincense we've already said like from Psalm 72 also from Isaiah 60 it's very clear that the kings from the east should bring golden frankincense myrrh you've got to do a bit more work like where's where's the myrrh coming from but these these guys these guys they knew they got in top but it it is a strange gift isn't it at a baby shower like bring a coffin yeah like it's just a little coffin yes for Jimmy yeah raptor thanks but yes in terms of the so check that out uh sorry just to re give the reference again um global church history projects yes and you can read full size posts like this every day by subscribing to www patreon.com forward slash global church history I I find it really just fascinating yeah I'm not sure that I can fully comprehend how I synthesize all of the things that are on there with what I read in the scriptures but what's great is it feels like it's constantly pulling me back to a deeper appreciation for what's there in the gospel that I do know.
SPEAKER_02Yes yeah because actually you can sort of poo-poo stuff like the Nativity Tableau and you can say well you know the because the kings and the shepherds weren't there at the same time and they weren't actually kings and there wasn't actually a stable and um but actually the reason why we've thought of three kings like Casper Melchier and Balthazar and given them those names that are not found in the Bible you actually press into it and you end up discovering that they're descended from the three different sons of Noah and things like that. Like they they trump you on their biblical kind of richness. When you think oh it's just the accretions of the medieval church and we we want to be you know we want to like clear out all of that stuff. Actually you delve into why it is that they've gone for three kings and this kind of stuff and like like you know the oxen in the stable and and that kind of stuff. And you're like well there's no oxen in the s in the in the stable and it wasn't a stable and that sort of thing. But like the early church comes back and you say well what do you make of Isaiah one like Isaiah one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah Isaiah one it's all about the nativity did you not did you not read it about the nativity are you not that Christ focused man you're meant to be the the liberal yeah I'm not the liberal funny but there was there was thinking about the the uh sort of the celebration of Epiphany as a as a as a practice yes as a thing to what should we do send cards I mean well did you what did you do for 12th night?
SPEAKER_0212th night well obviously all the decorations are down for 12th night because if they're not down by the end of 12th night you've got to keep them up until candlemass people.
SPEAKER_01Well that's not what the lady in the Chinese restaurant I went to last night said.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01So I went in to pick up my Chinese to celebrate 12th night a wise woman from the East Chinese she wasn't actually Chinese okay she don't know where she's from Hastings which is also from the 80s it would it would have been very surprising to me if I'd find out that this particular lady was Chinese anyway she was taking down Christmas decorations okay and as I walked through I was like oh it's uh it always feels a bit sad when you're taking them down she says well you've got to take them down on 12th night and I was like oh why's that yeah she said it's bad luck yeah and I was like is it and she said yeah and then I went well this is epiphany tomorrow and she was like oh what's that so I sort of tried to give yeah through my face mask and trying to pay for my yeah yeah yeah crispy shredded chicken and Singapore rice vermicelli I can give you the whole order another time but the the issue was that she was like oh no that we have to have this tradition she had no idea what bad luck was going to happen no she didn't take it to candlemass yeah like yeah I'm that bad boy but you're like why is she allowed to have like a story about bad luck and you're not allowed to have like Casper Milky and Balfatar you know like let's do that this is what I've discovered yesterday which is called a practice. Teach us so it's a practice called chalking the door chalking the door which sounds like a euphemism doesn't chalking the dawn sounds like a euphemism chalking the door chalk the door that night which is basically this sort of practice and I'm sure people can say oh well of course this is just you know all extra biblical nonsense and we shouldn't do it and stuff most every single conservative evangelical Sunday school is doing craft activities to help children remember yeah particular aspects of the Bible teaching maybe it's not extra biblical maybe it's hyper biblical hyper biblical I want to be hyper biblical so this is what this is what you do you get a bit of chalk and on your doorframe you write the year split into two I don't know why this is the case but so you'd write sort of twenty and then you sort of write Hindu Arabic numerals 22 from the east I guess yeah and then there's a cross there because it's all about Christ and then I think you do C, which I'll explain in a moment yep another cross yep M, another cross B, and then another cross. Wow and so that you apparently like it's almost like you're You're reenacting the Passover by sort of symbolizing that your house is being marked out on for this year on the for the gospel. And then these these three letters, C M B, they're doing double duty. Yeah. I love that phrase. Because they don't only stand for Caspar, Melchior, and Balthazar. I'm gonna get this wrong now. I'm gonna have to because there's a Latin phrase which is Christus Masonem Benedicat, I think. I don't know how we're conjugating, but yes. So it's it's it's Christ house blessed. So Jesus blessed this house. Yeah. 2020. You've got a cross there, a cross there, across there, Caspar, Melchior, Balthazar. It's that is the chalking of the door. Chalking of the door. And you're just sort of doing it as a little little reminder that it's epiphany and all the nations come to the King of Kings. It's apocryphal, though. And it's extra biblical. So's this speakeasy. We somehow.
SPEAKER_02I I like to be extra biblical. If you want to be sub-biblical, if you want to be sub-biblical, fine.
SPEAKER_01I want to be extra biblical here. Um but yeah, so that that's that's the thing that people apparently do. Um I love it. Which I just discovered yesterday. And so we we thought we'll do that, you know, we'd sort of talk our kids through it tonight. Yes. And we're gonna get the chalk from the beach.
SPEAKER_02We're gonna use Eastbourne's own sort of to symbolise because the sea is like the nations, right? We look out across to the French, yeah.
SPEAKER_01We say, even them, even the French brought home and be brought into the blessed hospitality of the Christian home, which is obviously what Mary and Joseph do. Let's do it, I love it. Welcome in the nations.
SPEAKER_02On the subject of symbolism, isn't it, isn't it interesting that astrologers are able to look at a sign in the stars and to and to interpret them with all sorts of theological and political meaning. Yeah. And it's like, oh, okay, so that's the that star, which Chris Nichols, is that his name? Um, has has done um some great work on the star of Bethlehem as the Christ comet. And um you can you can find all sorts of um podcasts and and videos that he's done. Um and linking it together with Revelation 12 and how you know the star seems to be in the Virgin or in Virgo and the Scepter, and you know, m maybe this is what's going on that they are interpreting through the astrological houses that there is people are I think they're logging off, right?
SPEAKER_01This is going into astrology now. Yeah. What's wrong with astrology?
SPEAKER_02No, but that's the thing is I'm like, is there? What is it? There is there's lots that's wrong with astrology. Okay. Okay, but there's nothing wrong with saying it there's lots that's wrong with astrology in the form that you know we know it. Right. In terms of at the back of a tabloid newspaper telling you you're gonna be lucky in love and beat a tall, dark stranger. Like to look at all the stars and think this is telling me whether I, you know, whether I'm gonna move jobs or not is ridiculous. But the stars are saying something. But they're just not saying something about you. That's the key thing, isn't it? They're not that into you. Yeah, they're very into Jesus, right?
SPEAKER_01Okay, and medieval astrology was all about the stars speak. Yeah, and then and Psalm uh 19, does the heavens declare the glory of God? The glory of God.
SPEAKER_02So the Aster star logos speech. Okay. So we we love and we we think it's very um uh respectable to be into astronomy, yes, which is the gnomos of the Aster, the laws of the stars. So the stars are obeying iron laws, and they're just they're just doing their thing because of necessity. Yeah. Um we're very uncomfortable with astrology that the stars are actually saying something, but the stars are totally saying Jesus is Lord, creation's voice proclaims it.
SPEAKER_01And that's where we have to use the lenses of scripture to understand. So the special revelation of God in scripture is then used to make sense of the general revelation of God.
SPEAKER_02And clearly the scriptures have been doing a work on them in the East because they they kind of bring the right gifts and they know that this is the king of the Jews. So there's something scriptural already in their understanding. And then when they get to Jerusalem, yeah, it's the scriptures that tell them it's Bethlehem. Yeah. And so, yeah, absolutely just looking at the stars is not going to lead you to Christ in and of itself.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Not that the stars are not proclaiming Christ, they are totally proclaiming Christ, but the scriptures are Calvin said, they're like spectacles that help you to see what is already there. And so there they come, and they they bow down, and let's let's kind of finish with this point that they they bow down and worship a baby when there's already a king of the Jews on the throne. And a monstrous power, you know, who seems to be the legitimate ruler. Yeah. Um but they question the legitimacy of his rule. Yeah. Rightly. And they're like, no, we're gonna go with the Psalm 72 thing. Hence we bring the gold and the frankincense in the moment. We're gonna bow to the one who would come in weakness for the weak. You know, the the one who is like for the little guy so much that he becomes the little guy. And so, you know, as as we think, you know, who knows if in ten years' time we'll be thinking about January 6th in terms of the Capitol building. Yeah. Who knows? But we have for hundreds and thousands of years been thinking of uh January 6th in terms of who is the true ruler and on what basis can we trust in in the the reign that is over us. And it's pretty it's pretty good to know that the one who reigns over us actually has compassion and and lifts up the lowly and crushes the oppressor.
SPEAKER_01And so we're saying stay off QAnon, stay out of your probably the tabloid newspaper astrological science section to read your star chart sort of thing. Yeah. But if you dive into the scriptures, you will find the real conspiracy, the genuine truth, yeah, that is being suppressed by the mainstream news media and all that sort of stuff. That's true, yeah, yeah. And yeah, you will also then find a way in which you could you could start to think about the stars and the word that they're speaking. I think we should we need to do more on because I I feel like, yeah, yeah, I don't know what to say.
SPEAKER_02Because there are 12 houses. Come on!
SPEAKER_01That's not biblical, I don't know what it is.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's it but go on, go on the vine if it's that easy. One of them is Virgo, and it's you know, the virgin, and blah blah blah.
SPEAKER_03We need to. We should.
SPEAKER_02We should and we should find someone else who knows a bit more about it than we do, or at least read up on it. That is totally true. That's probably true about everything that comes out of our mouths, but um almost certainly. There it is. Epiphany, the real Theophany, the real appearance, the real manifestation of God is as a baby, the little guy who comes for the little guy. And we can we can entrust ourselves to him, whatever happens with our political rulers, no matter how Herod-like or otherwise they might appear to be. Um we know who the true King of the Jews is, and all the nations have been invited to worship him. So that's Epiphany. So uh I'm off to get some chalk. Don't know about you guys, but um Meet you on the beach. He's going to chalk the doors. Nate Morganlock. Thank you so much for joining us. Lance Griven, thank you very much. See you later, guys.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you very much for listening. I don't think I have anything else to add for this end section, and my computer is on very low battery, so I think I'm going to love you and leave you. Thanks so much for listening, and see you next time.