Imagine leaving behind a life destined for the stage, microphone in hand, to command the bustling kitchen of a Michelin-starred restaurant Tomas Lidakevicius
did just that, trading beats for beets, and in our latest episode, he recounts his extraordinary transition from aspiring rapper to culinary maestro. His story begins amidst the transformative post-Soviet era in Lithuania and unfolds across the high-pressure cooklines of London, where he rised across roles to become to executive chef at the Michelin stared City Social until opening up his own restaurant called Turnips, his own innovative venture at Borough Market. Tomas's tale is a vivid mosaic of personal anecdotes and pivotal moments, all serving up a feast of inspiration for anyone hungry to follow their own uncharted course.
Have you ever wondered what it takes to face down the white-hot intensity and relentless pace of a top-tier kitchen? Tomas doesn't shy away from the heat, offering up hard-earned advice for aspiring chefs. He shares reflections on his own learning curve, from the tough love of mentorship to the critical balance of creativity and precision. Tomas's journey through chef school, the crucible of fine dining, and the accolade of a Michelin star is a masterclass in resilience. His insights extend a guiding hand to those yearning to carve out a space in the culinary world, demonstrating that while the route might be laborious, the rewards are boundless.
The narrative wouldn't be complete without exploring how Tomas and his partner Charlie turned the unprecedented challenges of a global pandemic into a story of triumph. They harnessed the spirit of collaboration to launch their restaurant in the heart of a lockdown, turning forklifts into tools of opportunity and a shipping container into a beacon of community and culinary delight. With sustainability at its heart, Turnips is more than a dining destination; it's a testament to the power of innovative thinking and community in the face of adversity. Join us as we celebrate this journey of ambition and the shared passion that fuels the ever-evolving world of hospitality.
Imagine leaving behind a life destined for the stage, microphone in hand, to command the bustling kitchen of a Michelin-starred restaurant Tomas Lidakevicius
did just that, trading beats for beets, and in our latest episode, he recounts his extraordinary transition from aspiring rapper to culinary maestro. His story begins amidst the transformative post-Soviet era in Lithuania and unfolds across the high-pressure cooklines of London, where he rised across roles to become to executive chef at the Michelin stared City Social until opening up his own restaurant called Turnips, his own innovative venture at Borough Market. Tomas's tale is a vivid mosaic of personal anecdotes and pivotal moments, all serving up a feast of inspiration for anyone hungry to follow their own uncharted course.
Have you ever wondered what it takes to face down the white-hot intensity and relentless pace of a top-tier kitchen? Tomas doesn't shy away from the heat, offering up hard-earned advice for aspiring chefs. He shares reflections on his own learning curve, from the tough love of mentorship to the critical balance of creativity and precision. Tomas's journey through chef school, the crucible of fine dining, and the accolade of a Michelin star is a masterclass in resilience. His insights extend a guiding hand to those yearning to carve out a space in the culinary world, demonstrating that while the route might be laborious, the rewards are boundless.
The narrative wouldn't be complete without exploring how Tomas and his partner Charlie turned the unprecedented challenges of a global pandemic into a story of triumph. They harnessed the spirit of collaboration to launch their restaurant in the heart of a lockdown, turning forklifts into tools of opportunity and a shipping container into a beacon of community and culinary delight. With sustainability at its heart, Turnips is more than a dining destination; it's a testament to the power of innovative thinking and community in the face of adversity. Join us as we celebrate this journey of ambition and the shared passion that fuels the ever-evolving world of hospitality.
3, 2, 1, 0, 10, lift off, lift off, lift off. Hello and welcome to another episode of the Rest of the Rest of the Greatest podcast. I'm your host, jay Greenwood, and in this podcast we interview the founders behind some of the best hospitality brands in the UK to find out the skills and knowledge they've used to get to where they are Today. We're diving into the remarkable journey of Thomas Liddicevichus, a chef who grew up in the post-Soviet era in Lithuania and made it to the pinnacle of a fine dining in London, becoming the executive chef of the Michelin Star City Social, and to his most recent venture, opening up his own restaurant in London Bridge called Turnips. Thomas' story is a testament to the power of dedication and the pursuit of one's true calling. We explore the real hard work it takes to reach here as a top chef. We also cover the sacrifices that are involved in that. What is beautiful about this conversation is people in business and careers. We talk about the importance of planning every step. Often it's overlooked the path of just following your gut and just throwing away the rulebook. Thomas' story all about that just following your passion, following your gut and just jumping all in. I love this conversation.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, I was a bit under the weather for this chat, but I didn't want to risk the opportunity of missing a chance to talk to Thomas, who I admire so deeply, of what is achieved. So please sit back and join my conversation with Thomas from Turnips. So, matt, welcome to the podcast. As I was saying, it's a real honor to have you on, because you're a real legend to be, so thank you so much for coming on. It's a real privilege. I want to jump in and ask you about the very early years of your life and growing up in Lithuania in the post-90s Soviet split. So can you remember much of what life was like then and also how that maybe shaped your experience and worldwide view?
Speaker 2:Wow, back in the day, when I was still a kid, as you said, there was literally a Soviet split. So we still had the days when you go to pick up the milks and it was all limited in the way. It was not like we had some sort of tickets where my parents had to pick up and then I used to go and pick up, for example, sausage and bread and milk or something like this. It was already going to the end because it was already in 1990. In 1990, they got the freedom, but then it still was kind of in place.
Speaker 2:So everything going around it was kind of, you know, still the Soviet era and then people starting to get a bit more freed, and then it was not as deep as my parents would experience, I would say. But then the older people, they're still kind of living in that era. So it was really interesting. Wherever I remember, so say it is going which is my mum and my brother, and then I used to go to the shop to pick up a couple of meals or bread, you know. So it was really interesting days to be fed. I'm not going to say, I'm not going to lie, it's going to be one of the amazing days.
Speaker 1:Because you were so young did it feel kind of, I guess, a fresh start for you guys, being in the post-Soviet era where it just didn't feel like any restrictions, like the world was your oyster a little bit, versus maybe what your parents had the experience of.
Speaker 2:I think that's why, for example, because I was born in Vilnius and just before the, you know, the Lithuania got freed. So then after that we moved to the Great Britain, to the seaside town, so I think that's where kind of our family's new life started, you know. So we used to live in a central town of Vilnius. It was like five minutes walk from the, literally the main part of the Vilnius. And then after this, when we moved to Klaipeda you know, it's kind of the sea and then the absolutely different feelings came to our family.
Speaker 2:You know, it was not because Vilnius is a bit more, you know, cultural and strict in some places, you know, and I'm going to say I mean in strict it's a bit more busy a place. And then Klaipeda is a place where, you know, everyone is kind of a bit more chilled and then, you know, it's more solid, it's fresher air and stuff like that. So probably everything changed when we moved into Klaipeda. And then, yeah, my parents, you know, they became free in the way you know. So I think that changed a lot. So what I'm saying, you know I was born in Vilnius but I was living in Klaipeda, so all of this for me is that, like my born town is Klaipeda, you know.
Speaker 1:Is that when the love for music came in, was that the Western influence of the sort of music coming across, and was there any particular artists at all that inspired you? Because I know you're a big lover of music, so I'm curious where that sort of passion came from.
Speaker 2:I'm not too sure to be fair because actually this Christmas party with the family we played a game of the air. So my brother launched the AI and saying you know, play any music from 90s, 80s and something like that. So actually I won against even my parents, you know. So this plays first two seconds, first second of the you know any song, no matter that's going to be Madonna or Abba or anything. I was just literally the first train to kick in. I really don't know where that come from, but there's no one in the family who you know like really into the music.
Speaker 2:I was literally outside the box, probably of the family who started Always because all my mates around when I was really old we started getting a bit of the Russian rapping. Then obviously but that's, you know, probably go up on this and then all the American rap, british rap, who was not accessible probably by that time. But yeah, but then Russian rap was still really big and I think that as big as American, you know, even in now, you know from the video clips and everything. So you know it was early started. So then we had a couple amazing bands in Lithuania who started doing a bit of breakdancing kind of those beats and then, you know, we started doing a break dance. You know skateboarding and skateboarding and rollerblades, so kind of really early, keeping in those.
Speaker 2:Well, when I was, you know, swell, probably nine something, that is all around All my mates, they're starting wearing big pants. You know jeans, yeah, so it was really. And my mom is a seamstress so you know she always used to make me up some things, you know, instead of buying it. So I was kind of, you know, with the guys and I was, to be fair, I was the youngest one in how to say, in a gaggle of the we would grow up, because when we were growing up, you know, it's not like nowadays. You know everyone's laptops, computers and play the games. We grow up on the streets to the back, you know, and that was probably, you know, the biggest and the most amazing experience for myself and probably for whoever was growing with us, you know. So, yeah, music came in. Yeah, music came in, probably from the boys, you know, all together.
Speaker 1:And was there any particular artist or any particular song that inspired you to really get into it?
Speaker 2:Probably Getsul, that's the Russian artist. He's unfortunately dead by now. He was quite younger that day, so he was probably so when we were, when we were nine, he was probably sixteen or something like that. So he started really young and he was really amazing. So we used to listen for that, and then we used to take two tape tape recorders or something like that, so we used to play on the radio from one to record into another one, so then we used to have the tracks so we could listen to them, you know, not just on the radio, so we can carry on with us and stuff like that. So that was probably inspirational really, because then he was rapping.
Speaker 2:You know that's what we used to do. You know play basketball, you know football, you know staying late at night and stuff like that. And then, you know, because we grow up, everyone spoke Russian, so most of the people around were Russians. Because you know where we lived some seaside towns, a lot of sailors, so all day kids. So my Russian was actually better probably than the thing, and now we've got a bit more, but yeah, so all that came in probably from you know, all the last round.
Speaker 1:That's crazy. And then, what then took you to chef school, because that seems such a big pivot from your passion music. So what made you go there? Was it some guidance from someone else?
Speaker 2:No, so I personally think so. For example, if you think you know the red man, method man, all these guys, you know the chef from which I cry, you know. So all these guys, they work connected to the kitchen. So I think none of us went to the schools. I mean, we did go to the school but then we never how to say, we never made it. I would say, you know, we didn't become a lawyer, so solicitors or something like this.
Speaker 2:So by the time before the chef school, I started rapping. We had our own band, we released the album and then I came to UK at that time and the girl who was with us in the band now she's like literally super stylish Indian. Another boys I still carry on doing, but then it's a bit of kind of underground style. You know the pedal who does the music for us, used to do music. He's an amazing drum and bass artist and then another friend is now a DJ. So everything started with cooking. My mom, you know, noticed when I start rapping and start having a gigs. So Friday, saturday, friday, I miss the school. Thursday missing school, so literally going off-piste completely, and my parents and I was going to one of the best schools in town. Well, my home we call the gymnasium, so it's like top, top level school. And I didn't do well at all. So she said, tommy, you need to do something with the future if you become a chef, because you're quite good at it, because I was always cooking at home, you know, making myself a meal if I have two or two family. And she said you have to do something to make yourself, you know, just in case you go, at least you got something. And I was like okay, so what were you offering? And she's like go to the chef's school, because my dad had a radio inviting people for the open doors day, you know, to have a look at it. I said no way, I'm going to be a chef. I said no way.
Speaker 2:And then in the end, you know, I spoke with my math teacher. So when I said to her, look, probably I'm going to go to the echo so my math was really bad she used to put me. So we had a system two or one to ten. So ten is amazing, like what's a great A here. So I always used to have four. So four is just just past, you know not to fail. So when I told her she was my quite small teacher lady and then she kissed my forehead. They said, so you are the most amazing and clever guy from this school. For all of them, you know, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then I started in the chef's school, I finished it, I oh actually I didn't get a hot in the school as I was the last one. And then, yeah, everyone from around the religious go there. You know places in the head and my mom actually in the way kind of pride, the head master, yeah, I'm going to go in there. So I was the 31st, number 31 in a class, so I some some points. I used to bring the chair from another class just to sit in there. Yeah, it was good fun. And then, yes, cooking, you know. And then I finished the best grades at school. Well, where it comes, we're cooking.
Speaker 1:Obviously you know the stories and stuff like so did you feel then your kind of creative energy could be channeled then into cooking, because you sort of touched on there that maybe school wasn't your favorite thing, right? So therefore do you feel like you kind of found your place doing the chef's school?
Speaker 2:yeah, really think so, because you know, because the chef's school, because when I'm not sure how it's years in the colleges and everything but then down there. So I joined a school when I was 17 or 16. So you go first two years till the national exams, so then you were at class 12 and after this we had to do so by the time you were two years. We used to do the year, so you do your normal maps and stuff like this, plus you do another four, six hours a day of because I finished cooking and bartender, so yeah, so we used to do like a practice lessons and stuff like this. So you used to be, you know, you spend in a kitchen, then you go back to school and then you come back in the kitchen again or in the bar, could be in a waiter. So, because we used to have a like little restaurant in a school so people used to come to eat for like real cheap, so it always used to be fully booked for lunch and then, yes, and then all the creativity comes together.
Speaker 2:You know, no matter what you do, you know the Iraqi or the great music, as most of the people, even now in the kitchen I know. You know graphic designers or who used to work with me, so everyone is something to do with the creativity. None of them. You know geographies, not mathematicians or fliers. So all of something to do with the creativity, I think that's. You know other thing? And then you know, I think the kitchen is kind of extreme. So if you are kind of, you know, scared of some things, I think not, kitchen is not for those people to defend it.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's so funny because I'm just going off piece a little bit here. I always think like I was actually talking sort of about this the other day, about becoming a chef, because it's such a daunting experience and anyone who like doesn't understand what it's like. You just have to like watch on a TV show or just hear like, oh yes, chef, it's crazy. Do you think? Who would want to become a chef? It's just so intense. But you can say you must love that thrill or like that experience of being in there, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is something that's cool, I think. Even here, when you come to the college or the school or wherever something to do with educational to be a chef, that's what you got. Nobody tells you how hard life you're going to have. Everyone's saying how amazing is to be a chef, but no one is saying how hard life will be. I had to, literally just a couple weeks ago, a month ago, tv show from Lithuania came out, you know, in Italy, and I was doing a interview with them and they asked me actually, you know, what would you suggest to the young people you know for becoming a chef? You know I'm not going to lie. I literally said don't become a chef. Yeah, you know it is hard. You know, from 10, probably from 100%, maybe 10 just going to make it.
Speaker 2:You know, I know people who change their professions because it is not for everyone. You know, you, you live in probably all your life behind you. You know you just step into the kitchen and if you are dedicated, then if you are, you know you love what you're doing and from the early days you understand that bloody hell, this is for me. You just you have to come get by with it. You know there is not normal life 9 to 5 and then after this you come back home and you go to your gym and you know, go out, find a girlfriend. It's not happening if you join initially, these are standards, that's it. Forget about it.
Speaker 1:That's what I found so interesting as well, sort of learning about a chef journey. It's like people see these celebrity chefs and maybe think, oh, they don't do any of the actual work themselves, right, but they're literally still in the kitchen, right, sometimes doing like 7 days a week, shifts and stuff. It's not like, oh, they're just not doing anything anymore.
Speaker 2:It's not happening. Even myself, you know, until now I was in a section every single day, even having my own business. Because then you know you're trying to run it, you know, to make money, to make it surviving. You know to make sure everything is the best. Even I trust 120% of my team, you know, but you still want it to be there. It's not like you're going on holiday. You're constantly on your phone having, you know, one eye down, have a look at it. You know the bookings. You know how the boys are doing sending a text. You know to the head chef boys, are you okay, it's just constant. It's not like I don't know having some sort of financial company and you know just, yeah, I go for holiday, chill boys. Goodnight, you know, see you in two weeks. Yeah, it's not happening, you know, because it's constantly alive, it's just moving. You know two covers or more, two covers, less drop down of two, you know, and then it just, it just hurts straight away, amazing.
Speaker 1:well, we're going to touch on in a bit more about the journey of sort of getting to a top level chef, but I want to touch on now your journey from Lithuania to London. How did that come around? How did you end up in London?
Speaker 2:That was so spontaneous because, all my life was so spontaneous. I was never planning to do anything. There was literally a freestyle session. You know, because the same with the rap, you know, it's exactly the same. But I was really good at freestyle. I took second place in Lithuania freestyle battle, so it was quite cool. Yeah, it was back in the day, it was really cool day. So I think that my whole life was like this. I've never planned. I mean, now I plan probably my holidays, only that's it, nothing else. Everything goes freestyle mode.
Speaker 2:So I just finished my school, just got a diploma, and my friend, who was already here in UK nothing to do with cooking he just called me at home, where he was up to us, and I said how much did you prepare? I was working already in a restaurant for a couple of years while I was in school said you know we're working, you know we're your first, and just come over and come and stay a couple months. I might find your job in the kitchen, because he's missed it. At that time she was working at one of the hotels. Yeah, and then, just to be fair, couple of days later I got a ticket and just left the hometown and I came to London and then, yeah, didn't get a job in the place where I was supposed to go because something went wrong. Then worked in the building site for a couple of months in the summer and then we still came back to the kitchen. Yeah, it was super spontaneous. There was no plans.
Speaker 2:No, my parents was like, yeah, they go for it. You know, because that time, you know, our family was, we would never how to say probably no in the middle class. How to say, you know, it was really hard. End to end. You know, mom working constantly, dad working, you know, five a day after this go to other works. So it was not easy back in the day. You know, if you made it, you made it, but if you're not, yeah, it was quite tough. Yeah, my brother was playing football so he left really young age to the football academy. There was a lot of finances used to go to him just to keep him surviving down there. Then there, and I was, you know, myself, you know, into the hands of him. I was literally parents, didn't have to put any money into me to keep him going or something like this. I always managed to, you know just survive.
Speaker 1:So you ended up in London doing, say, working on a building site, right? So how did you then make that transition into the kitchen? And I guess no.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, when I came over, I said you know I start cooking. I said this is what I'm gonna do. And then this is what I want to do, to be fair, the building site job. If someone from building site listened to me, don't get upset. It was super easy and chill, like there's no stress whatsoever. I used to work in a back station there was one of the buildings, so it was upstairs in the sun painting the beamers you know the white paint. The whole day. It was chill, completely 95, having the two free breaks. You know it was easy and it was amazing.
Speaker 2:Money back in the day. And then the boss of the company he really liked the way they do his like Tommy, he still comes to eat till this day to my restaurant now in Tarnix. But he said, like Tommy, stay, you know, with us, you do really well. And then, yeah, the money back in the day was amazing. And then I said no, no, no, no, I'm gonna be a chef. And then, yeah, just went for I think it was a recruitment agency, something like this.
Speaker 1:And then managed to be a job in, yeah, since the year I was in. I guess it's probably good to give some context of how old you are at this point and also as well, I guess, maybe give people the idea that the pay cut you had to take to actually then go back into the kitchen and follow your passion right to pursue that career.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but to be fair, the transition was not that hard. You know, that's what I'm saying. Looks like I was born on a golden egg or something like this, and I used to work nine to five. Then I came to the Descent Stevens Club and then my work, because it was a private members club, and then used to work on the lunchtime. So I used to come seven o'clock in the kitchen and four, five o'clock I used to go home. So kind of my three years of life I actually enjoyed the London, you know. So we had a time, you know, to go out to the guys and then, you know, to the James and stuff like this. You know so actually had a normal life like everybody else.
Speaker 2:But then at some point Alex would, when he was my head chef there, he said, tom, there's nothing else to do here for you, you have to move on. And then when I came to London I never knew that Michelin star exists. I never knew that the other style of the kitchen exists. I saw, you know, I used to follow some chefs from America, like Stuffy, who's got like now a couple of restaurants, three stars, or a lady here. You know he knew places like this. But then he said, tom, you have to go. And then he offered me a job because he knew I was a big regret in the window. So I said I'll go and do a job there.
Speaker 1:I could know problems whatsoever, and then the life began completely different. Yeah Well, that's a bad touch on that, because obviously you can go down. I guess you mentioned the career that you have to take as a chef. Right, you have the option. Right, you went, you kind of touched fine dining, right, you said it kind of shaped your whole experience of food. But I guess that's that choice that some people have to make, isn't it? They want to go down that route and I guess how was that experience for you when you saw fine dining? How did it shape your view of food?
Speaker 2:As we say, to be a chef. You can't be a chef and you probably can't, I don't know. The chef for me is like two ways. One is a cook. You can be chill working a pub or big chain restaurants. When you're filled in the rotas, you do your own thing and the sit. Or you go to Routes, windsor and full blast and back in the day.
Speaker 2:Now everything is changing. I don't understand everything, but back in the day there was no couch on the house, there was no chef and we're not going to do it, no concom or something like this. So yeah, there's a couple ways so you can go. That's what we're saying now for the young boys and girls who start, it's a little bit different. It's a little bit easier to prepare.
Speaker 2:The way we went through was, I think, the military way of cooking, of running the restaurants. So now even myself I can't do this to the boys anymore. You can't. Usually I never scream a shout in everybody. We're just super chill and the hours are really manageable. It's no more five, six, doubles in a row when you start at seven and you finish at one or two at night and you take a travel and then go back again to sleep and then come back again to prove something to the chef that, yes, I can do it. But when you think of there was somebody else in the restaurant and then somebody else was making money with you but then you wanted to prove to somebody that you can do it, but, to be fair, all the boys who were pushing, like me probably, I think now only one I left who are on.
Speaker 1:The rest of the boys especially I want to now touch on because before your current restaurant now, which we'll dig into a bit after, but you are the executive chef at CitySocial, which is a Michelin star restaurant. So you smashed your career. You did so phenomenally well, but that's a big jump from, as we mentioned there, starting the private members club. So I guess what would be really good if we could chat about what that journey is really like, because you mentioned there those five, six doubles. So there's obviously that sacrifice. You're almost trading your life away to pursue that career.
Speaker 2:That's correct. So there was a some point of my life where me working all these hours and everything, friends that have any kids and stuff like this, and at that point I proposed me. I never got married. And then my wife now at some point she was like all you have to stop cooking. Like you cook now, literally doing five, six doubles. Basically I'm not at home now. I'm like I said, I just got back home to sleep and that's it. So basically I'm at home for three, four hours cooking, six hours of wax. Sunday, monday, if the restaurant is closed, you kind of have to have a dead lane and bed because you just want to relax and chill. Yeah, she came to the point that, tom, you have to kind of stop you know always splitting or you enjoy doing something. So we decided, okay, I'm going to quit, mission has been done, so I'm going to take an easier job. So then we had my first daughter, camilla, and then I joined the Corinthians, also as the senior sewer after the super social. So we often see the social. So that's the two times I was in super social. We often do the pool also.
Speaker 2:Then I had to leave because the baby I couldn't do these hours anymore, as much as I loved it. I joined the hotel and Peter Woods, executive chair at that time as well exactly the same said Tom look, I don't think the hotel is for you, because I was kind of struggling. You know the systems, the everything. It's no, it's politics, you know. So I couldn't deal with that. You know I was amazing at cooking, creating and stuff like this. But then it comes to dealing with you know you can't come. I can tell to you, you know you've done something wrong. I have to go to five or six people and then the seventh one I'm going to come and tell you you've done something wrong, but it's not for me. And then I've got a job in the peninsula, a restaurant, you know, student's, continental as the head chef. So that was really successful another three years of my life, and yeah, and then it came to exactly the same thing. You know there was nothing else to do anymore there. We tried everything we could. The restaurant was just in the middle of nowhere, the brand of hotel. And then Paul Walsh called me. He said tell me, you know I have to do another thing with Jason, and then you want to take over the city. And I was like, wow, that is a big thing. And then I said to my wife I said, look to be fair, peninsula, you know we were doing the great things. It was not like it was a step down in your career. No, it wasn't. We created.
Speaker 2:I think that time from Corinthians to peninsula was the biggest creative moment in my life. When I put you know from Instagram, from people knowing me, you know I had a collaboration with the pre-star chefs. Yeah, it was just phenomenal and amazing. So all kind of pushing and trying to make something. It's not like letting my name known to the world, it's just trying to do good something for somebody who comes to eat. So it's creating an experience.
Speaker 2:And then, yeah, when we took over the city, there was a different ball game. You know, even still, it was quite big hours and everything. But then you know, it was support of family battery. You know, because the position is amazing and big and you know the actual stress levels of taking such a big restaurant and I know that it was like five or six years before we took the mission and started, you know, together with the chefs. And then, yeah, the pool was done, amazing, and I have to carry on. You know the legacy of such amazing chefs and then keep it going. You know not to lose it. So the stress when it comes to that level is you can't explain it. And the kitchen size, you know. And then the floor 32 chefs in the kitchen on 28,. You know it is a beast.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, and you mentioned there some incredible chefs that you work with. Is there something that each chef taught you a philosophy or wisdom about mastering, kind of getting to where you were, sort of, through your journey? They maybe gave you advice or mentored you and gave you some like nuggets of wisdom at all.
Speaker 2:If you think there was not a moment that you know the chef stand next to you and says like oh, tony, you know you have to do this one this way. There was everything through a daily you know service, you know, sometimes, you know, you get quite hard time at some point in service, you know, but no hard time because you've done something wrong, because the chef sees that you, you know, you pick people, you see people who wants to do it and you see people who just lazy and just there, just to be there because it's the mission, is the restaurant or something you can see. So those people kind of you know how to say, you leave them in your kitchen because you need a job to be done, but then you separate people who you can see, who gives it more, so you can know those people more Obviously, you're going to get upset.
Speaker 2:Why chef is giving me so much shit. Why chef is giving me so much things to do already, like till here. You know, till my top I had dude. I need some glasses and stuff. But he's giving me more, more, more, more because he actually likes you and then you know he wants to make you better. I think that's the only way to do something with people, you know, just overloading them. And then obviously there is a point when probably you'll see it's about to break and then, yeah, you just like it. Then maybe tap on the shoulder or something to say, look, well, you know, it's just not because I don't like, it is because I love you. And then you're going to succeed.
Speaker 1:I'm curious now reflecting back on your journey, because it sounds like it's been one incredible journey, but also so intense. Now you're sort of where you are now. When you look back, do you kind of look at it as in it was a natural path to get to where you are, or do you think, and you sort of think, that it's like a great learning experience, or no?
Speaker 2:I think in the way I was lucky. In the another way, probably I was good while I was doing it. So it was not something. I always push myself to the last minute, you know, when it was never a cut in a corner or you know, and I was never. You know to say there's a lot of boys in the kitchen who are trying to stitch each other's arms or stop lines. I was never that guy. You know, I'm not a small guy. You know, all the time I was quite a big boy and then it's just. You know, I always try. You know, if I'm in the restaurant I want to do best of my best to give my every single minute away, and, you know, trying to do it. So I think all these things, you know, it makes you a better man, not even a chef, you know, because you, as I'm saying, you're trying to learn, you know. So to go to the college, you know you're trying to be fair. You know you're trying to be fair.
Speaker 1:You know you're trying to be fair, you're trying to be fair, you know you're trying to be fair and now you're in the position you are and you've achieved what you've achieved. Is there any sort of corporate principles or advice you'd give for people who are thinking about this career I guess, who had set on becoming a chef what corporate principles they should have in their journey to sort of maybe get to where you are?
Speaker 2:Just get ready for the really hard work. You know, as I say, now things are changing. Even as a two or one star or no matter, he says mission is ours and all that, just literally, it doesn't matter. But everything is changing now. You know, the working hours are more manageable, salaries are much better. You know, back in the day I was a connoisseur for 16,000 years ago, but then, yeah, everything is changing. You know, still is not most amazing and most paid professional in the world. Just get ready to work hard and if you're going to work hard, you're going to be rewarded with work.
Speaker 1:And now I want to touch on to your new chapter in your journey, and this is where I just find it so crazy. So the pandemic comes along and you get a call from I'm right thinking Charlie was running supplies at the time, right For city social.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there was the alternatives to the suppliers.
Speaker 1:And he just calls you up crazy, excited about something. Could you sort of like tell us about the conversation when, so to be, fair.
Speaker 2:I didn't know about alternatives, nothing about it, until I started working at the social. So we used to get the most stuff from the other company, other supplier, and then the best gear, the best stuff, you know, used to come from Johnny. So sometimes people are saying, you know, sometimes you give him a call because he is 36, he's 32, now 33. So it's kind of a similar age. You know, we're both sporty guys, you know. So we just kind of kicked in so I call him up. He's like Charles, I need a favor. Charles always sorts us out, you know, never a problem. He needs something. We always do something. Sometimes he used to come to eat with his mates, you know. So we always kind of looking out for each other and then, yeah, the pandemic kicks in. Obviously we're all off.
Speaker 2:And then, being so bored, at the time it was quite a long time, isn't it? A couple of times I went there, you know, to help them out. I just, you know, I think, being like super productive and then doing something, you know, locked in in the house, I just couldn't cope anymore. So I said, look, I come over, I'll do some videos for you guys, you know. So they used to send me some boxes, you know, cook something, put online. So it was good for the both sides. And then, yeah, one day I just received a call. I was like Charles, okay, yeah, what are we doing, buddy? It's like yes or no. I was like what do you mean, yes or no? We're doing a restaurant or not? I was like, yeah, let's do it. So it literally was like this and then in two weeks we've got a proper restaurant in a bull market.
Speaker 1:So, truth your philosophy, truth your philosophy, no planning. Then let's just go with that, go with the heart, literally no planning, yeah, and then, to be fair, he's exactly the same way.
Speaker 2:You know, he I mean he's a bit more organized than me Whenever he comes, he always writes things in the notebook and then, you know, comes back and reads it through.
Speaker 2:Fortunately, I didn't do that, so that's why probably, you know, is the dark side and the bright side, so he's looking some stuff, you know this way and then always kicks my ass, tommy, do this way and this way. You know, while he comes to the cooking, you know he's hands off, but when he comes to the organizing and doing things, yeah, and then, yes, as I was saying, in two weeks, all the lockdown, anything was closed, no one was working. You know everyone's laid off on a furlough system and then we managed to get two tonne shipping container rolled into the door market, every service, you know, getting the tables and chairs by hand by the forklift I know I'm strong a forklift now and stuff like that. So there was amazing experience, as we said. You know, the freestyle session started and then, yeah, it was absolutely amazing. And then if I would do that again, people would be like yeah, so it's actually two weeks.
Speaker 2:I get too old for that.
Speaker 1:People plan this stuff over like months, right, and you guys smashed it out in two weeks and I think I'm right you guys were just moving in the shipping container in and out every day, right, because that's what you have to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we used to have to do that because in actual, the stand where we are now, or the restaurant you know, back in the day there was, you know, onions, potatoes, all that stuff all over the place. And then we had a spot only in the green market, which is just opposite to us. So there was a massive, a whole way to go in. It's like B-shaped, and then a shipping container used to fit. So we used to go in. So two tons full of plates, polished plates, wrapped up with a cling film, all the kind of deep fat fryers are there or something like that. So it's all movable on the two wheels. So we are like six lads high-hand, pushing out and you go through the size like probably two centimeters each, so like inch each. So we tried to fit into there. Someone has to stop the traffic on pace. Anything would be the same. But that was amazing.
Speaker 2:You know that was the summer, everyone is. At that time I had probably the biggest team from Freestyle Somalia, because everyone was laid off, nobody had to do anything, so everyone was sick of sitting at home and we had a project like this. Everyone was chickening, everyone wanted to do something.
Speaker 1:And yeah, it just so. How did that journey then go from its like pop-up stage to actually a fully fledged restaurant? Was it just? Was the pop-up just the way to test it and you guys planned it like to see if it worked or not, or?
Speaker 2:we never, guys, we never planned anything. We tried it. We never knew how is it going to go or how are we going to close it down. You know the money being spent. So, no matter what, you know, the Fosters family kept in quite a bit of money just to get everything you know from the plates. We bought a second-hand plate. Anyway, all that stuff needs to be bought or rented or stuff like this.
Speaker 2:So then I'm starting getting cold. That's where I started. So we at some point I said, look guys, oh, we're doing something, or we're going to understand. We're in a stand. And then I said here, and then there was literally the space where the restaurant is now. So we had no toilet, no, nothing. The kitchen. You know, great British chefs came to film and then two days in advance we went to the D&Q, bought some kind of this, put them on the walls and then tried to make the kitchen really good. And yeah, it's just mental, doing a building site at the same time as cooking. And then you had slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly. You know which is filling up. And then at that time it was a golden days because there was a rule of six. So all the restaurants are closed and we are outside 50 cars tasting every night, plus the small plates. So at night we used to have probably 120, 140 cars by Thursday, friday, saturday, easily, easily, that was a super big.
Speaker 1:And so what's your? Because I can see you just see like so excited talking about that. So what's your when you contrast the experience of being exec chef at a Michelin star restaurant versus being a chef owner? What's the contrast and how do you sort of feel about it?
Speaker 2:The only way I can explain it and see it. You know you are running somebody else's restaurant and you're trying to make it better and amazing, as they left it for you. You know. So you have to get business going basically. You know you have to meet all the criteria. You know GP's staff cost everything, so you just have to do that. You know, and you know I don't know how to explain you can pour, for example, if you're good enough, you can put 60% of your effort to make a running. You know the rest of the food you just can show in the way. You know so, and there's no one how to say this? No one to control.
Speaker 2:I was always giving 100% in, always doing the best, but then when you have your own, his 100% is not enough. You know you have to give everything away, but to be fair, you know when you're giving away everything for your own, and then you know for the, you know all the people you like and then they trust you. It was just amazing, it was. And every single day, you know, till now you wake up and it was never a day that ah, I know it's over, you know. So it's never a day. You always go with a smile.
Speaker 1:And then you know, even you had a rough night or something, but this is still going doing it. And I guess obviously this all was triggered off by the pandemic and a lot of people stopped and paused at that time and sort of reflected on what they wanted to do for the rest of the time. And for you, was it that time where you stopped and you suddenly thought, you know, I don't want to be, you know, working for someone else and spending my time there, and then you thought you know, it's time for me to make that leap, not what happened this year.
Speaker 2:I just been laid off Because that was the last one in, probably the highest pay. And then Jason had another people who worked for him for many years. He had to look after them, which is everything understandable. How to say the family where he has in the business, the boys he's working with? It's like 10, 15 years. They're all together. So there was no feelings or something inside to me I have to look after my boys Now. I was the last one to join in as the big boy, Even though we started to be in the restaurant together and everything.
Speaker 2:There was no problem whatsoever. We went the different ways, the most amazing ways, and then we said even the PR company, we had it at that time. What can we use, Jason, everywhere if we have to mention your name, I'll call the chef. I'll say Chef, can we do that? That's all the problem, Because this is what happened. And then you just have to move on. And then there was no, even, I think, came up with the answer. It's just went different ways. You see how he does amazing and then you see the same way.
Speaker 1:And I guess, is that something that's kind of the nice bit about the career, that you kind of have people if you work hard for them, they kind of look after you and that's kind of the community that everyone shares together.
Speaker 2:That's what it is. Somebody pulls. You never know where it will happen. One day something might happen, and then it's like you're going to call the chef and he'll tell me I need a job. I'm sure it would be 30 seconds thinking where I'm going to send them. So it's the same thing If the boys I used to work with. It's exactly the same thing If I can't take them to some point and then you will find a space where they can go. So it's always as you say. It's a new community and even if someone moves from one direction to another one, you always know each other. Someone worked with a guy or someone worked there. So if someone new comes in, you just call the chef. It's like how is it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's OK, let's take it, it's awesome. And now I want to talk about turnips, sort of your approach to food and how you do it, because I know sustainability is a big thing for you, right, and you try to use everything you can from the turnips it's actually, I guess, a fruit of edge stand, essentially, and then you've kind of created a restaurant next to that, so you try to use everything from the stand, even if it's, I guess, not desirable to sell, and you try to integrate that one into the menu.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think this is the most important thing for us Educating people about actual food image. We've got the Fred Foster, the dad of Charlie, who is actually the OG of the turnips. He's the guy who started everything in the Caroline. So he even says in his book we try to educate people. We're the recipes, we're the seasons, so people know what you can eat now, what's going to be better next. And then it's exactly the same thing with the stand. The stand is massive. One side is going to be mushrooms, another side is going to be a cheese bar, then you're going to have some other things, then there's a restaurant. So we all connected as one big. So the stand is the base. And then there's always all the flow of food and vegetables. There's always going to be To mark those, for example, this is just never ending in a kitchen. So the fruits, whatever they know is desirable, as you say, they go into the fruit pot, they produce this. The mushrooms goes to us, goes to the risotto side, so it's all the thing trying to reduce the waste. Or as the company, so it's no money goes in the bin. But then, so for people not to understand that we're using a leftover, it's not a leftover, it's the leftover of people, what they don't like to buy. It's the tomato. It's not looking good. They say, ah, it's not good. You're going to Tesco. They all packed, all in a green vine, they're all in a racking pack, so that's how it is. And people think that is tomato you need to buy, which is sorry for my language Shit. So that's what it is. And then, yeah, we're just taking, and probably when we take it it's at this peak of the flavor, so we can use it now, right now, to give it to people to eat. Yeah, it's stunning.
Speaker 2:I never knew and I never had a challenge in my head. You know, always when you create a dish, you think, ah, I'm going to cook this thing, so I'm going to cook this fish. And then the vegetable was just only a bad thing. Always the vegan vegetarian on a menu, or no, every single one. The vegetarian and vegan dishes, for example, used to just be kind of offside. Nobody puts too much effort and stuff to think and do it. For us, vegetable is a first. And then, ok, we're going to have this beautiful button and squash or something, for example, what meat and fish we can use next to it, and we're taking it the other way and then to make the dish again, not the same as you made last year, because obviously the season is back again. Yeah, it's just phenomenal.
Speaker 1:And I'm right being in terms of having access to some of the best produce right around. They just have the connections right. So I think I already say that you're sort of so happy with the food you're cooking. You almost say it's better than the stuff you've been doing other restaurants, right? You just think it's just brilliant, right.
Speaker 2:I was never a guy who I'm going to say my food is amazing, never. I'm more than that kind of person. Free-duty views, people say then accolades, whatever we have, who manage to come and inspect us there. I would just love what we do. And then people who come, the whole guests, the loving and coming back again, even if we are not in a condition place where you're going to have tablecloths and everything. It's just we in the middle in the back of the bar market, of the stands, with the rail track going and talking to the head, with having no roof. I mean, we have a couple of rules, old school, blinded rules, you know. So this is amazing. We had such a. You know was a year before it was going out, you know, really free, yeah, it's just amazing. You know, if people can do this, I'm sure anything is possible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I have to say it looks absolutely amazing. And yeah, I've seen the food I've done so much research for now and it actually looks absolutely incredible Whenever I'm saying it's incredible as well. So I think you've done an amazing job. So a constant of time I've taken up a lot of your time already, so I want to finish on a quick fire question. So, your favourite restaurant in London?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm a friend's restaurant in Castel 44, I would say what's it called? Castel 44. Castel 44, right, I'll get that it's a restaurant, yeah, where he does. He's sick. He's a new school chef, completely.
Speaker 1:He just doesn't care about rules. Amazing, that's awesome. Favourite place for a drink.
Speaker 2:Oh, this one is going to be there, literally in a bar market, where it's going to be a white chief. It's the beautiful pub, massive, outside to a terrace. It's really cool. All the restaurants are on the bar market level.
Speaker 1:Now, do you have a favourite burger place?
Speaker 2:One of the nicest ones is going to be a mission, maybe you know, in a restaurant, nice man.
Speaker 1:A really cool place, yeah, and a favourite pizza Not a really good pizza, no, ok, we're a little bit up for that one. Well, sometimes I want to say thank you so much for all coming on, because it's been such an honour, and just to hear your journey and you share about what it takes to become a chef, I think so inspiring and also just so incredible, and I thank you so much for coming on this show. I really appreciate it. Thanks so much. Thanks so much, adam. As always. Guys, thank you so much for listening, really appreciate the support and if you guys like it and you're enjoying what you're listening to, please like and subscribe and for a review, we'd really appreciate it. Again, we'll be back doing this weekly and, yeah, if you want to know more about starting a food business, head to wwwjageringwoodcom. But, guys, as always, thank you and be great.