From Jitters to Clarity: Building a Functional Coffee Brand That Actually Works | Unconform Founder Yusuf Amanullah

We trace Yusuf’s path from schoolyard hustles to building a functional cold brew that swaps jitters for calm focus. The story spans painful caffeine experiments, tough retail lessons, and the mindset shift from making a product to selling one at a profit. Listen to the story of building Unconform

• early ventures and the itch to build 
• caffeine overload as the spark for a solution 
• cold brew, adaptogens, and nootropics for a smoother hit 
• scrappy R&D, 31 iterations, and crowdfunding proof 
• timing, outreach, and landing Holland and Barrett 
• taking feedback, rebranding for shelf visibility 
• packaging that signals benefit at a glance 
• avoiding ego traps and focusing on sales 
• the real maths of margins and target numbers 
• recommended resources for learning to sell

Please like and subscribe, and write a review, would really appreciate it 
If you want to know more about starting a food business, head to www.jgreenwood.com

Transcript

Early Hustles And Entrepreneurial Spark

Jay Greenwood 0:00

Three, two, one, stop, stop. Hello, and welcome to this podcast. I'm Epicurb, and in this podcast, we can found as well as on the best to enter brands and get the knowledge and skills that they use to grow their business. Today's guest is Eustace Emanuela, and he is the founder of Uncom, a functional cold coffee program. He launched a business in 2022 at Impact Coffee, raising £26,000 for crowdfunding. Following feedback from Holland Barr, he rebranded and will relaunch the range in early 2026. He runs Uncomform and once got his role as a business manager in Gentleman's Treasury and Chief Investment Officer of US podcast. Thank you for having me, Jay. So I wanted to jump in because I got a sense from doing my research that maybe entrepreneurship came into life before Impact Coffee and Coldberry Coffee. Is that true? And how did that sort of come about?

Caffeine Overload And The Problem To Solve

Yusuf Amanullah 1:01

Yeah, absolutely. Um I think I always wanted to try ways of essentially setting up a business. Uh, even from when I remember I was like in year eight, year nine. Uh sourpunk candies and nerds and basically anything Willy Wonka related uh was almost like contraband at school. And uh I was one of the uh distributors. Um I used to take my sports bag, not with my sports equipment, but literally just kilos of of uh sweets and sell them, basically. I used to buy them. Um I was in Dubai, so I used to buy them for like one derim, sell them for two. And uh I made a tidy amount out of it until there was like this school-wide warning that if we catch you selling these sweets, you'll get suspended. So my uh business plan kind of uh got thrown out the window. And then off of that, um I tried to essentially make another hobby of mine, which was collecting memorabilia into a business. And uh it was called Titans, and it was an incredible journey because I was doing this while I was at boarding school, and you know, I was like 15, 16 years old. And it went from, yeah, basically being something I I kind of collected into a full-fledged brand. Um, we did some amazing things uh in my country of origin, which was Pakistan. I actually partnered with the Pakistan cricket team, which you know, anyone in Southeast Asia or South Asia rather knows uh cricket is like a lifeblood uh for for them. And so for me to be able to actually work with people that I, you know, watched all the time on TV and you know, kind of wondered what they were doing, um, you know, it was amazing. And you know, then then I went to university, uh, was always kind of mulling around thinking about what I wanted to do afterwards. And for you know, various reasons, I went into the corporate world, but there's always been this itch. And uh, you know, COVID was kind of that time where you know you there was a lot of self-reflection uh during that time, and and that's where the concept of impact coffee now on conform uh came about. And I always love to kind of dig into the sort of when that sort of idea sort of like flourished and came into maybe something you wanted to do. So because I guess while some people are led by pain points and other people sort of go through the viewpoint of data. So I'm curious for you, was it a um maybe a combination of both, or was it thinking that oh, there's a big trend in America, that's coming over here, let's write that wave, or was it like this is a pain point that I really want to solve? So at least has an audience of one.

Discovering Cold Brew, Nootropics, And Function

Jay Greenwood 3:59

Yeah, it was basically a combination of both, and one led to the other. So I remember when I was um taking like my uni exams, right? So I would, oh, I was an absolute fiend. I would uh like I I I Googled like how much caffeine you can have maximum per day. And I used to be a pro plus tablets, and I would literally like time them. It's like, okay, 8:30, I'm gonna take two tablets, then you know, uh 11:30, I'm gonna take another two, then 1.30 straight after lunch, I'm gonna take another two, and then at 3:30, I take another two. And it never worked. Um, it was like by the time I got to like 1.30 after having my Tesco meal deal, I was I was gone. And um, I remember one time I thought, like, huh, what if I like superset this with a Red Bull? And that was like the worst experience ever. Um, I was I was so anxious. And at that time, right, I was like 20, 21, and functional wasn't really a thing uh at that time. Um, you know, thinking six odd years ago, seven years ago, it was like on the cusp but you know, it was always very much around um kind of greens and and and vitamins and minerals, etc. Like focus wasn't uh, or nootropics um instead wasn't really a thing back then. Um, and so I was always wondering like, why on earth do I just feel miserable all the time? Why do I feel rubbish? And then, you know, clearly my habits didn't really change because I I just remember there were there were generally a couple of times where I would just have like two of those double shot espresso Starbucks cans, right? And 20 minutes later I'd have to like lie down on the floor um and just breathe out like the anxiety. And um one particular time when I was working um, you know, at my job, I didn't have a very good night's sleep the night before. And I thought, like, okay, well, you know, caffeine here I come. And I got a French press like kind of machine thing, uh, not that it's that fancy, but I wanted to try it out, and I just decided, like, okay, let me make like a liter of the stuff. I just destroyed a liter of French press coffee, which is about like nine-ish cups, and it was the worst experience I've ever had in my life. I didn't sleep for two days. My toilet was genuinely my best friend. And um, I said, okay, enough's enough, and I want to create something that worked for me. And I then started looking at like, okay, well, what are the alternatives? And then you have these non-caffeine alternatives. They're not great because caffeine works. I think people demonize it um because of the preparation of these sorts of uh products. And so I thought, okay, well, caffeine works, but the way we consume it is not great. So, what if we had this and something else? And so that's when I started looking at cold brew because I found out about how with cold brew you get uh less acidity, um, you know, you and and just that feeling of like this sort of acid reflux that you get sometimes from a cup of coffee. Like I just didn't get that anymore. It was a smoother caffeine hit. And then I started looking at adaptogens and nootropics, and I looked at the fact that, oh, okay, well, caffeine's a vasoconstrictor. Let's look at vasodilators, kind of you know, um, offset the effect of that jittery, crashy feeling. And that's where I started mixing with different kinds of ingredients. And like you said, right, I started looking across the pond and I saw companies like For Sigmatic, which were, I think at that time, like one of the biggest out there, but they build themselves as this kind of like hippie brand, um, which you know, I guess didn't appeal to me because that just wasn't, I'm I guess I'm not their target market. And then on some of their products, they have this like big black box warning of like cancer uh warnings, and you're just sitting there and you're thinking, ah, well, I don't want that. So I kind of tossed myself with creating something that worked for me, and I thought, like, okay, well, I'm having this problem. And then I started speaking to other people, and they started having this problem. And then there was this general wave during COVID of health and well-being naturally because we got this pandemic. It all started working and it started making sense. I still think that that was very early days for functional, but you know, it was at that time, in my opinion, the right time to start. And uh yeah, um, since then it's been quite a journey. And how do new tropics come into that? So, how was that educational piece about learning about those? And then you've obviously got to go from this idea to let's make a product. What was that going like? How do you go from A to B to C?

DIY R&D To Product Formulation

Crowdfunding, Validation, And First Wins

Yusuf Amanullah 9:04

Yeah, um I it was really kind of just researching initially, at least on Google, um, you know, and just looking at like ingredients for uh you know long-term energy and ingredients for this and ingredients for that. I think people, you know, AI is an incredible tool, but the power of search is still very prevalent. And if you can search and research really well, then you know the world can really be your oyster. And you kind of, you know, have to go past the first five odd uh options and then actually look at academic papers, try and uh understand them uh as much as you can, look at what other people are doing in the space, look at why they're doing it in the space, and then try and see if there's something um there that you can not, I wouldn't say necessarily copy, but you know, take inspiration from. Um, and then after that, it was very much a case of like, okay, well, that ingredient sounds interesting. I'm gonna put that in my coffee and see how I feel. And I was very much my own like uh guinea pig. Um, I remember one time I put cod liver oil in my coffee. Um, and it tastes exactly how you'd expect it to sound. Um, it was just horrible, horrible. Like you could just see the layer of oil on top, um, you know, these bubbles, and then you drink it, and it's just like it's fish but bitter. Uh and it wasn't it wasn't nice at all. That's why we don't have it in the product. Um, but you know, it was very much a case of like I'd have to try these things. And does it work in a coffee? Do I enjoy it? And does it do what I think it it's supposed to? And I think I went through like 15, 16 different ingredients, and then I kind of was like, oh, okay, well, this handful worked. What if we mix all of these together? And then when I started trying it, I sat there one day and I thought like, oh, whoa, okay, I feel like dialed in. And it was a bit like a light bulb moment at that moment, and then I started sharing it with other people as well. And then when they tried, they were like, oh, it tastes good. And it's like, whoa, okay, I feel good. Um and from there, we worked with, you know, this this food developer that helped us create like what is what was at least version 1.0, which was impact coffee. And, you know, even though to the consumer it was version 1.0, it was actually version 27D in the background, it was 31 recipe iterations. Yeah. And um, you know, we we crowdfunded for that. I had incredible support for my family. And I think the greatest litmus litmus test uh was when I gave it to my grandfather, who at the time was 80 years old. And you know, he's he's an 80-year-old South Asian, right? So for him, it's like he doesn't believe in any of this sort of stuff. You just get up and you get on with it, um, worked all his life. And I gave him, I gave him one can and he drank it and something. And and um afterwards, like after a little while, he was like, you know, Yusuf, I I feel really good, I feel really calm. I was like, that's it, I'm on to a winner. So uh, you know, I I I uh thank him for for being honest.

Jay Greenwood 12:23

And one thing that really surprised me was how quickly sort of Holland and Abbot came onto the scene. So talking to how that conversation sort of came about and how because I mean that loads of brands would love to get into Holland Barrett straight away. So, how did you convince them that to take a chance on you? What was that moment that they thought was like what was the conversation that was transformed from a like uh let's chat about this today? Yeah, let's get you on.

Landing Holland Barrett And What It Took

Yusuf Amanullah 12:47

Yeah, I mean, I think um what was really great is that at that time as well, they were actually bringing back a lot of you know their food range. Um it was a it was a great timing situation. You you can't um escape that or you can't like deny that fact. Uh, and I'm very grateful for that. But you know, there was a new buyer in at that time, they were revamping their fridges and um you know what they were gonna stock. I think at that time as well. They had a situation where they had too many competing products, and they they told me at that time, like we have so many things that in the end people get such decision fatigue that they end up just buying water. And like that's the worst thing that that can happen, right? Where it, you know, you just have all these options. Um, and in the end, people go for like the lowest margin product, or you know, perhaps one of the lowest margin products uh for for them. Um at the time, I literally was like LinkedIn, like trying to see who the buyer was, reached out to a bunch of people, obviously got a lot of ghosting. Uh one person, um she said, Oh, thanks, I'll keep you in mind. Uh, and that was kind of the conversation at that time, but then two, three weeks later, she was like, This is interesting, we might want to put this in. Um, you know, let's have a chat. And it can really go from that kind of conversation of no, we're not interested to yes, let's do it, uh, pretty quickly. And then a lot of times it's not like that. But again, I just think timing was was really great on our side at the time. And um, yeah, it was great. I think a lot of lessons learned, a lot, but um an invaluable experience.

Jay Greenwood 14:41

Yeah, I love as well you mentioned timing there, because it's sometimes I think it's underlooked the like the value of luck in these transitions where it could just be, for example, that week someone just mentioned, oh, like cold brew coffee that's got like nutritional benefits, and then they're just like, oh, top of mind, it's uh so many things can happen that can cause to just like moving on to Holland Bar. I know they have been quite actively involved in sort of the transformation and journey of um, I guess what Impact Coffee to um unconform now. So I guess how was that process like for you to get that feedback? How did you sort of remain humble to go well, this is my like to go the this is my brand, this is the vision, versus actually taking that lesson on. And I guess what made them feel so passionate about your product to want to help guide you?

Feedback, Humility, And Category Timing

Yusuf Amanullah 15:32

Yeah, I mean, so super grateful to them for you know taking me on and then essentially showing me the lessons. I think ultimately the humility comes from just being beat down so much. I mean, the number if the numbers don't work, then the numbers don't work, and you kind of have to just say, like, okay, put my ego aside, what's working, what's not working, and like let's tweak. Um, and so from that perspective, I think one of the main things is that you know, you start off naive in this journey, not knowing what you don't know, then you find out that you don't know a lot, and then almost the fear of failure keeps you in, which is is not always great because obviously there's a lot of anxiety involved, but you know, you you have to keep going because you know that you're onto something. Maybe it's not the right thing for now, but you just have to keep going. And so um, you know, they clearly saw, and I'm glad that they did, that there was an opportunity for a functional product within the coffee space. Um, we keep seeing everywhere in like, you know, the grocer or other outlets as a whole that you know, ready to drink coffee is becoming a new norm. Uh and it's it's booming. Um, but you have the usual suspects and the kind of coffee that you do get, I mean, if you look at a if you look at a can, right? Uh it's 60 odd percent, 60 to 70 percent uh milk and um like 30 coffee, right? Whereas for us it's flip. We have majority coffee and then the rest is oat milk. And so they they clearly saw that there were benefits and merits to everything that we were doing. It was an intentional product and it worked. Um, but we were a single skew, so we would get lost on shelf. Um, you know, the branding at that time was what I liked slash what I thought would work on a direct-to-consumer um standpoint, which doesn't always translate well on shelf. And so all these different things, when we spoke about, they said, look, there's good things here, but with a few tweaks, uh, we reckon you could get better. And so that's really, I think, um, you know, where where all the the help came from was understanding that there was potential here. And Tonnen and Barr are the kind of institution that like to take people early on and nurture them in some way. Um, you know, and it's a great way in, I think, as well as you know, being a great accountist overall. Um, you know, and you just have to manage that that relationship, um, which isn't always easy, but it's uh it's valuable.

Jay Greenwood 18:27

And how did you manage the process? Well, you've actually now pulled back from poly environment. You spent a lot of time, energy on rebranding, which I think is fantastic by the way. I love it. Thank you. Um, but yeah, how was that for you to like emotionally to actually take that step back and go, like, you know, I need to take a step back? And even though you know it's to take two steps forward at the time, it may have how did that feel and how did you reconcile that?

Stepping Back To Rebrand For Shelf Impact

Yusuf Amanullah 18:51

Um, yeah, I mean, there were a lot of sleepless nights, there still are, but um the way I I think about it is like, so I have two Holland and bats near me at work. So every day I would walk into both and see how our can lock on shelf. And so, you know, there was always this initial pride of actually being on shelf that's really, really cool. Um, but then I would see like, oh, um, you know, someone's taken account of something else and they've put it in front of like our line. And it's only because I'm actively looking for my product that I know that it's hidden away, right? But otherwise, like no one's gonna know. So it was just like again, this humility, not to toot my own horn, but it's like this sense of like, well, this is part of probably the reason why we're not um, you know, doing as well as we could. And um, yeah, I mean, there were a lot of times where I was like, Well, are we going down the right track in terms of the rebrand? Um, but then we would essentially try that out with with people, see what their their thoughts were. Uh, I do like polls and stuff like that on Instagram stories to essentially gauge people's uh thoughts behind it. And um at the time, which was really great, uh we also got in touch uh with a uh an incredible like flavor house. And you know, they're a big name. And through them, we were able to tweak and improve our product. And because of their experience as well, they were able to bring in their expertise as an incredible flavor house to be like, well, you know, this flavor profile tends to score better, blah, blah, blah. You know, all these things, which I was essentially leaning on other people's experience as well. And um, you know, that's where I guess things like mentorship and all is valuable. It's not so much about just like talking or grieving your air, um, you know, airing your grievances, sorry, but actually having actionable steps and taking their feedback on board and doing something about it.

Jay Greenwood 21:01

One of what one person I really love that I saw was uh you saw the evolution of uh your brand at an event for five or three years. And I guess you can really see the difference between you kind of touched on it there, like your vision of what you thought like good branding and good visual branding looks like versus maybe what sort of other opinions of how it's um gone to I guess when you look at the evolution of brand, what misconceptions did you think you had about sort of brand and packaging? And now that you've gone through the showing, what are the most important lessons that you've learned?

Packaging Lessons And Standing Out

Yusuf Amanullah 21:33

Um I think one of the main things is like if it looks invisible, like simply put, people aren't going to pick it up. Um, you have to be different but starkly different. Doesn't mean that you have garish colors or you know, suddenly you look like, you know, uh some neon pink, God knows what on shelf. But you know, it has to number one speak to the customer and like they have to almost subliminally understand what the products are about. But then also number two, like people have to just see it. Um, I think previously our products, our our colors were a bit dark and and um you know a bit more matte in in color. And so because of that, it just wasn't popping off shelf. Whereas now, if you look at our our packaging, we've got the different colors, which are nods to the function as well as the flavor. And so, you know, people kind of just get it um without needing to uh see it uh in their face, but then obviously when they see it in their face as well, um, that that reinforces their their um their initial thought process. And I think um, you know, without being rude, but uh there was this um from the grenade co-founder. I mean, she she said on uh a podcast one time, like people are dicks or something like that. I mean, not to go that far, but you really you have to spoon feed people, I think, a lot of the time as well, right? It just has to be pretty obvious to someone, like only you are gonna put in the effort in your brand the way that you do. Um, you know, then you know, it's founder, then maybe employees, but you know, not always. And then like the customer who has like thousands of messages coming out then left, right, and center couldn't care less um unless you you prove your worth. And so all these things together means that you have to just look at it from their perspective as the customer and be like, does it look good enough for me to pick up? Um, and if it doesn't, then you're just not gonna get picked up.

Avoiding Ego Traps And Focusing On Sales

Jay Greenwood 23:52

I want to talk on to the point around sort of your framework around how you thought about starting a business and remaining at work. And I guess what I heard you talk about in the podcast, but it could have been the host that said it or you said it, but the sort of term was ego masturbation, I think it was. And um, how you sort of relate that to kind of your decision of framework around why you're in the position of working now, well, you had this brand that was a hollow barrels. So talk us through that.

The Hard Maths Behind Profit

Yusuf Amanullah 24:16

Yeah, um, I think that ego masturbation uh uh phrase came from you know, basically setting up a business or quote unquote setting up a business to get the likes, to get the post out, um, and then you know, kind of doing nothing with it. It's just like another logo. Um essentially, you know, you have to you have to find some people in the world that you have that have a problem that you want to solve, and then go about solving it. And and that's fundamentally a business. And then hopefully, if your solution is valuable enough, you'll get a profit out of it. Um, it sounds very straightforward. It's the most, perhaps one of the most difficult things that you can do. Um, and that's why people don't always succeed. More often than not, they don't, they they don't succeed. And another reason why is because you know, it's all well and good getting the logo, making you know, a cool video or whatever. But then when you get beat down, like for the 150th time by the same person, or you know, there's you know, one person doesn't like your product, or you know, someone writes like a comment on an ad or a post or whatever it is, right? And then that sets you back a little bit, you know. Um, you kind of just have to keep going. And I think a lot of people really don't know how much work it takes to make something great, um, in both in terms of time, but then also like money and effort, and you know, doing the right thing with your time as well is incredibly important. Um, but but yeah, I mean the balance between the two is it's not been easy. Um, I don't think it ever is easy, but like, you know, you kind of also have to just take a step back and think, right, well, what are my commitments? Um, how am I gonna balance the two in terms of I have to do the best that I can in both um areas and then juggle that. And you know, you can't go into this um thinking it's gonna be an easy ride. You know, some people have it perhaps easier than others, but no one will ever say that it's easy. And so um if you kind of go in with the expectation that you're gonna go like 12 rounds with Mike Tyson, then you know, if there's if it's a someone comes out with a lighter uh weight cost, like you'd probably be happier.

Jay Greenwood 26:49

Yeah, sure. I've um I've spoken to brands before and I try to explain to them that it's um like making a product is super hard. To make a product that makes money is really hard, and to make a product that makes profit is unbelievably hard. So if you get to that point, and some people just look and they're just like being just like, no, it'll be easy, and then it's the right to eventually.

Learning Resources And Selling Mindset

Yusuf Amanullah 27:10

I mean, I think one of the well, yeah, perhaps the most important thing that I've learned the hard way, can you know, ironically, considering that you know I work like in a financial institution or whatever, is like numbers, because the numbers that you look at from that perspective are very different to like what a businessman or or a business person would see. Um and you know, I think it's very naive to think like, oh, okay, well, I can make this product for like 50p, I can sell it for two pounds, that's £1.50 in my bank, like every single time. But it's like, right, well, how are you gonna actually get it to people? How are you gonna get people to buy it? Why would they buy it? And so, like the the actual management accounts um are so valuable, or just like understanding the numbers from that perspective of like, you know, not just gross margin, but like operating margin, it's like that's so valuable. And I think you really do have to understand that before you you um think that you're gonna make any profit whatsoever. And you have to get that target number. You have to understand, like, okay, well, if I'm not getting that target number, I either change my selling system or I tweak the product or tweak the message or whatever it is. But if I'm not hitting X, why are you know what can we do to hopefully move forward in that direction?

Jay Greenwood 28:36

I'm really agree. I want to finish on a wine final question. And I I know so in my research, um, come across a quote from Reed Hoffman. So I'm curious about if there are any people across maybe other categories that you look across, maybe outside food and drink, that give you inspiration or any places or materials you could direct people to that add a lot of value to you.

Closing Thoughts And Listener Thank You

Yusuf Amanullah 28:57

Yeah, um, you know, I think um in terms of resources or or things like that, you know, what I would say is that there are a couple of business people in the world that are actually incredibly valuable to to follow and to read. I think um if you want to understand selling, and I think people funny enough, when trying to sell a product, don't understand selling. Um, someone like Alex Hormozy is so good. Like his $100 million series, um, it's a it's a it's books, uh, it's the book series, is there's three, they're so valuable. Um and yes, they simplify the concepts and you know, perhaps they're a bit watered down or dumbed down. But if you're starting and you're trying to think like, okay, well, where do I where do I begin? Like it it is so great to to reframe the the kind of thought process in your head of like from creating a product to like selling a product, because um people don't realize like when you're actually in the business, you're in the business of selling, you're not in the business of what you thought you were in. Um and uh another couple that I would I would say, I mean, again, I guess if you're trying to enter into it, but then it also helps you think about things is you know, uh sell like crazy by Sabri Suby. Um funnily enough, it's his like lead gen lead magnet. Um, so you can get it for free, you just pay for the shipping. Um if you if you click on his ads. But again, right, great value for a lead magnet for sure. And then another person um is uh Russell Brunson. Um say what you will about click funnel, say what you will about like the the value stack and all that kind of stuff. I mean, the way that he goes about understanding the funnel process is incredibly valuable. Now, how people then use it, that's a whole other thing, and you can't um, you know, kind of blame him necessarily for that. Um, but actually, if you read those kinds of books, they just get you in that frame of like, okay, what's my funnel? Um, what do I need to do at each touch point? And then what you start doing is that you start seeing other brands and what their funnels are like. And so what it does, it gets you in understanding or asking the right questions so that you can you can answer the right questions and hopefully come out with a better system.

Jay Greenwood 31:44

Incredible. Well, I think that's a perfect place to have the interview. And I've been saving this TN to basically just say how incredible the product is. I've literally the same thing that I did that you mentioned this morning. I went into Holland and Barra just to see like what other brands were there. And the same problem you just touched on there was just like blown away by just the quality was not quite there of like your product. And I think yeah, it's just great. So um, yeah, I'd recommend uh to people uh when it comes to Gone Bar. So yeah, I want to thank you one for the product, incredible product and I enjoyed so much. Also, too, just um yes, inspiring to just hear the journey going. So thank you so much for coming up to the audience.

Yusuf Amanullah 32:19

Thank you so much for having me. Um as always, guys, thank you so much for listening. Really appreciate the support. And if you guys like it and you're enjoying what you're doing too, please like and subscribe. And prior review, would really appreciate it. Um, again, we'll be back doing this weekly. And yeah, if you want to know more about starting a food business, head to www.jgreenwood.com. But, guys, as always, thank you. It'd be great.