Links:
https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/
Transcript
0:01 Intro: Hi there! Welcome to Well Dukes, brought to you by The Well. Each week, you’ll hear conversations from a variety of JMU staff and students that we hope challenges what you know, think, or do in regard to your own health and helps you be Well Dukes.
0:22 Jordan: Hello, hello everyone! Thanks for tuning into this episode of Well Dukes. It’s me again, Jordan McCann, Interim Associate Director of The Well. And you are about to hear a conversation about body image. I have two guests with me today making their Well Dukes debut, and I will let them introduce themselves.
0:42 Veronica: Hi, my name is Veronica Jones. I use she/her pronouns, and I am the Interim Director for The Well, Health Promotion and Well-being.
0:51 Sydney: Hi, my name is Sydney Harrell and I am a junior Health Sciences major and I’m a certified peer educator that serves as a Well Peer.
1:01 Jordan: Great, thank you both. I’m excited to hear the different perspectives you will both be bringing today. So our goal of this podcast is to talk about a variety of topics that pertain to how one’s health can be affected during college. Body image, whether positive or negative, is no exception. According to the National Eating Disorder Association, body image is how you see yourself when you look in the mirror or when you picture yourself in your mind. It encompasses what you believe about your own appearance, including memories, assumptions, generalizations. And it’s how you feel about your body, including things like your height, shape, and weight. It’s also how you sense and control your body as you move. It’s how you physically experience or feel in your body. So I really hadn’t ever thought about taking the time to research or find a full definition of body image, but when I read this definition, there were components of it that kind of surprised me because they were just things I really hadn’t thought about. So I’m wondering for both of you, does anything about that definition surprise you?
2:12 Sydney: Well, for me, one thing about the definition that I often forget about is that body image is not only how you view your body, but how you feel. And I feel like it’s forgotten about because weight, height, and shape are all very tangible things that people can focus on and feeling isn’t tangible.
2:33 Veronica: Yeah. And I would say I think I was pleasantly surprised by how expansive the definition is. Very much that it’s not just what you think about your body but truly the embodiment of the body. So, how do you control your body as you move. That part really stood out to me and I really appreciated it. One thing that immediately comes to my mind is sometimes the things, you know, we might do when we’re about to take a photograph. How do we move in a certain way to present ourselves one-dimensionally versus, you know, in real life? So I really appreciated just how, you know, thorough of a definition that was.
3:13 Jordan: Yeah, absolutely Veronica, that’s such a good point. When we talk about, like, posing for pictures. As I said, the parts that surprised me-- I agree with you both-- is how you move in your body and physically experience it, not just how you picture yourself but how you really use your body to move and express yourself.
3:41 Veronica: Yeah, and going back to the photographs, I always think about… I’m not sure which celebrity it was, but who started the whole kind of “hand on your hip” kind of thing, and I am guilty of that too. And then I’ll see pictures and I think “Do I really stand around like that when I’m with people that I care about?” And the reality is no, I don’t. [Laughs]
4:03 Sydney: No, I agree. I see that a lot and like, with myself and my friends and just like the social media culture around this age. We always take pictures and we want to look our best obviously, but that’s not what we look like in person or that’s not necessarily what we look like all the time. Like, I know personally, I avoid taking pictures sitting down, but like, sitting down is what people do every day.
4:34 Jordan: Yeah, that’s actually a really great segue into my next question. So thinking about the definition, some of the assumptions and generalizations that can influence body image, I’m curious since Veronica you work with college students. Sydney, you are a college student. What are some of those assumptions and generalizations that can influence body image, specifically to college students?
4:59 Veronica: I think one thing that is salient no matter how old it is, is this whole notion of the “Freshman 15” that has been around for literally decades. And it is not a thing. But it is something that is constantly discussed, feared for whatever reason, and it is this thing that’s out there that has not been proven in research. And I think too that oftentimes, as young adults, we are given this message that the body goes through puberty and it changes and that’s it. And I would even go further and offer a reframe that the body is always changing and growing because it’s a living organism. But, this notion that “oh, there’s one change and we’re done” - it doesn’t do anyone any good. And we are always growing and changing. You know, mentally, emotionally, and physically as well. So I think that’s one thing that I would like people to know - is the “Freshman 15” is not a thing and it’s not even worth paying any attention at all. I think more people, I know I wish I had done this, would spend more time on enjoying my overall experience rather than constantly focusing on “what do I look like during my experience.” But I’d be curious to hear what Sydney has to say as a current college student.
6:19 Sydney: No, I definitely agree with everything that you said, because some of the assumptions or generalizations that influence body image in college students is that as late teens or early 20-year-olds, our bodies are changing from teen bodies to adult bodies. We are not meant to be the same size that we were when we were sixteen. Yet I feel like, especially with social media and all of that stuff, people get stuck on trying to stay the same size as they were when they were sixteen years old. When in reality, we are not meant to be the same size as we were in high school. We are past puberty, or towards the end of it, and we are entering young adulthood and our bodies are still growing. And especially with the idea of the “Freshman 15” almost engraved in our brains, it gives us, like, kind of worry with gaining weight when, sometimes gaining weight is good. It’s healthy. It’s growing up. You’re not a teenager anymore. For people that have vaginas, you are growing to, like, be able to carry a baby. So it’s things like that that I feel like we should focus on being healthy instead of the number.
7:32 Veronica: I think something else that Sydney just mentioned that really influences how individuals see their own body image are things such as social media and who are you are following. What type of messages are constantly showing up in your various social media feeds about what a body should look like? And I often, in my own opinion, think that the messages we are given are very limited to a very specific type of body and is not inclusive at all to a variety of sizes, genders, identities. I think, typically what we’re sold on, is a very limited scope and really is very exclusive to the majority of people. I also think, too, who are we spending our time with in real life? So, are we around people who have their own positive body image? And then if someone is positive in their own image, that’s going to radiate off of them into the people that they’re around meaning that conversations may not go to this collective kind of degrading ourselves, if you will. Whereas, are you also around people who are building you up and everyone is feeling good about themselves and enjoying health, because really, and we’ll get into this in a little bit more soon, but it really is about health at the end of the day. And we have this amazing vehicle that we get to move through our lives in, and you only get one of them. So it’s about, I think, enjoying this vehicle that you’ve been given because eventually you will be inhabiting an older model of the vehicle [laughs] and how are you going to enjoy and honor that? You know, yes, bodies don’t always only change when we’re young. They keep on changing. So it’s a constant process of acceptance and self-love.
9:30 Jordan: Yeah, thank you Veronica. I was thinking that too when Sydney was talking about how puberty and going from late-teens to early-twenties, early adulthood. And it made me think that - I think that is something that’s missing - is the conversation about changing bodies. It’s so much - emphasis is put on, like puberty and your body’s changing, and I think there lacks that education or conversation about, “Yes, and it continues.” Like the body, as you said earlier, is a living organism. And it’s going to keep changing and it can then, kind of be scary or concerning when, all of a sudden, your body is changing in ways you’re like, “Whoa, I didn’t expect this to happen,” or like, “Whoa, I thought acne was, you know, supposed to only be in my teens. What am I - I’m in my thirties, why do I still have it?” [laughs] And those conversations aren’t happening.
10:31 Veronica: No, we don’t talk about it at all. We don’t discuss, “Okay, what is going to happen with a body in our twenties, versus our thirties, forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, and beyond.”
10:46 Jordan: Yeah, so you started to touch on this, both of you, about if we want to change or how can we be more aware of what’s influencing our body image. So, if someone did want to change their perspective and foster a positive body image, what are some things that they can do?
11:09 Veronica: I can go first. I think, first, recognizing that this can be really difficult for some of us because we are constantly bombarded with other messages about how we should look, how we should feel about how we look, and all these other things. So I just want to acknowledge body image and cultivating a healthy body image and good body image, it’s deeply personal and it can be really complex. And I think it goes back to what kind of messages are we exposed to. Also, what kind of conversations we are engaging in about our bodies, if any at all. And I say that because it can be okay, and I encourage people to cultivate positive conversations about their bodies and even gratitude about the amazing things our bodies can do. If someone likes to work out, and maybe likes to run, you know, thinking for a moment about, rather, you know how many calories is one burning when they’re doing this XYZ, maybe thinking, “Wow, this body. It carries me however many miles I go and wow, these legs are so amazingly strong.” You know, whatever it is. But cultivating a sense of gratitude for the things that our bodies allow us to do. I also am a firm believer in positive mantras or positive self-talk. You know, having self-compassion for ourselves if we do have a thought about our body that isn’t so great, maybe taking a moment to pause and recognize “Okay, I had that thought. I am not that thought.” So maybe saying instead, “And, I love my body,” or, “I love this about my body.” But really engaging in this process of recognizing how we think about ourselves, and then giving ourselves messages to replace that, that are more positive and healthy.
13:04 Sydney: No, I like that a lot. I really like what you said about promoting confidence and positive thoughts. And I would say like, to wake up and shift the focus to acknowledgement and respect for your body’s certain circumstances and working with your body instead of against it by loving the way that it moves and appreciating all that it does. Like shifting the focus from weight loss to overall health. Because there is no goal weight. The goal weight is wherever the body lands when the individual is prioritizing healthy habits and moving and fueling their body in a way that makes them feel good, without sacrificing joy or getting wrapped up in the weight loss stigma. And I feel like a good way that our listeners could do that would be by waking up everyday knowing that health looks different on every body. And to challenge themselves to make the choice to be more happy and confident with daily affirmations, or anything that makes them feel mentally and physically good without focusing on their reflection.
14:14 Veronica: And really what Sydney is alluding to, whether she’s aware of it or not, is really this concept of health at every size, and that is a thing. We are given very specific messages, I believe, in our society about what is healthy and oftentimes that is equated to as a thinner frame. And the reality is, you cannot tell from looking at someone how much they move on a regular basis. You cannot tell their blood sugar, their cholesterol, their triglycerides; you cannot tell any of these things that are also important markers of health. All you can tell by looking at someone is what you see. And I think that, assuming that thinness equals health, that does a real disservice to people. It also does a disservice to assume that, if someone has a bigger body, that they’re not healthy, because the reality is that is just not true. We cannot tell health by looking at someone, and the more we perpetuate that, the more damage we’re doing. And I feel really passionate about this. My undergraduate degree is exercise science, so I spent years working in the fitness field. And it was always really difficult to work with folks as a personal trainer, to obtain strength goals and different fitness goals, and watch someone get super strong, and then hear them down themselves because they didn’t weigh a certain weight. And that was, that was difficult. I think the most satisfied I was working in a fitness setting was when I worked at a retirement community, and really what we were talking about was truly health and activities of daily living. Could someone rehabilitate themselves after a hip replacement? Or after a fall so that they could, you know, truly, you know live independently or toilet themselves. Those are some really important things that we’re, you know, are getting left out of a conversation if we’re only basing things on looks. It’s, there’s so much more to health and fitness than just what do we look like.
16:17 Jordan: Yeah, absolutely. And one thing we really haven’t even touched on, too, is all of the mental health component that goes into it - which we will, in a future episode, [laughs] just because it really deserves its own episode to talk about that. But I think that’s the other thing you want to talk about health at every size and things you can and can’t see. You also can’t tell what someone may be experiencing emotionally and on the inside and how, again, their health, mental health is affected because of their body image. But, both of you, thank you. That was great advice, and I really appreciate hearing, again, Sydney as a current college student and young woman and Veronica, your experience. I think that was such a great sharing experience about working in the fitness industry and then working with older folks. It’s something we don’t think about, right? Just how the body moves and how important it is to be able to do those daily life activities. And that’s really important to our health.
17:27 Veronica: Yeah, and I wouldn’t expect, you know, at the time I was about 25 years old working in a retirement community. I hadn’t thought of those things either until it was my job; and it was truly fascinating to see the idea of health and fitness truly for functionality and to live. It was very refreshing and I would like to say, too, I appreciate more and more now how there is this “Normalize normal bodies” message. I would like to even take it one step further and just say “Normalize bodies,” because it is truly the one thing we all have, that we have in common is a body. So if we just normalize bodies, we’re normalizing everybody! And that’s where I would like to see the next iteration of the conversation go, although we have come a long way. So, I recognize it’s baby steps.
18:22 Jordan: Yeah. Love that. All right, so at this time I’m going to kind of transition into our takeaway and wrapping up. So, what is something you both would want our listeners to take away from this. You both have made some really great points, shared some great advice. But if you could just kind of summarize one main point: how could our listeners apply what we’ve talked about here today to their lives?
18:55 Sydney: I want our listeners to take away that health is more than just what you look like. That there’s so much more to life and health than constantly trying to change the way that you look. Instead, like, focus on being more, both physically and mentally, healthy by fueling your body, moving it how you want to, and loving it. Because, as college students specifically, we’re going to want to look back and remember the fun times. We’re going to want to remember the outings with friends, the holidays, the laughing. And I just don’t want people to look back and wish that they spent less time hating their bodies that they made all of the good memories in.
19:41 Veronica: Well, that’s hard to follow. But I agree with all of that, [laughs] and I would say too that I want people to take away that it can be a process, and it’s possible. So if someone is listening to this and they just are thinking, “I don't know how I could ever, you know, love my body, or have a positive body image.” I would say, it is possible. It’s a process, and to be patient and kind to oneself as they embark on that journey. And that it’s okay to have setbacks, as long as we keep in mind that the longer goal is truly embracing with 100% acceptance and love, this vehicle that we're moving through life in. And that it is, you know, you can find a place where you do fall in love with your body.
20:37 Jordan: Thank you. So before we end, it’s time for our questions round. My first question for you both is “What advice would you give your undergrad or younger self?”
20:54 Veronica: Oh, I’ll go first this time. Um, this is easy for me. I would tell my younger self to - instead of spending so much time caught up with my body image, or how I looked, or feeling not confident about how I looked, to really just let that go and live it up. You are young once. So, [laughs] so I think I wasted a lot of time being unsure of myself and I really wish I had just embraced myself, all of myself, and had really just kind of been more confident.
21:40 Sydney: No, I definitely - I was going to say the same thing. I would just tell my younger self to enjoy the moment more. Spend less time worrying about the future or like what I was gonna look like, and just be confident with - and have fun with the people around me and just love, like, what’s happening and what, like, great experiences that are happening right now. Like, the great memories. Like, and just focus more on the moment than anything else.
22:08 Jordan: Yeah, thank you both. I can definitely say, thinking and planning out this podcast and thinking about this question specifically, of course, I’ve even reflected on my past experiences. And definitely what you both said, I agree with. And it was - these were all things where I’m like, “Yeah, I found myself thinking all of those” and I’m so grateful social media wasn’t what it is today when I was younger. And I also wish that when I did workout or exercise, that - I don’t want to say I wish I didn’t do as much because there are a lot of health benefits to it - but I just wish I would have framed it from the way of appreciating my body moving and not just solely thinking of like, “I have to go to the Rec Center. I have to go work out so I can burn calories,” you know, in this, almost like as a consequence thing. But instead, doing it because I actually did enjoy it! [Laughs] And finding the activities that I really love doing. Yeah.
23:16 Veronica: Oh I totally agree. I think people get this message that you have to do things, you know, physical activity and fitness-wise that you don’t like to do. And the secret is to find something you like and do it. Whether it’s dancing, strength training, gardening, walking - just enjoying movement for the sake of movement.
23:38 Jordan: Yeah. So my second question for you both is, since we’ve been talking about how we can picture ourselves, my question is: Who would play you in a movie about your life? [Laughing] I’m asking this because Veronica gave me the idea for this question and I never asked her.
24:04 Veronica: Oh gosh, now I don’t know what I’m going to say. Sydney, you can go first. I’m buying myself some time.
24:11 Sydney: I don’t know. I’m trying to think.
[All laughing]
24:13 Veronica: Okay. For me, Amy Poehler or Uma Thurman.
24:21 Jordan: [Laughs] Oh!
24:25 Veronica: Two very-- depends on what version of the movie we’re going with.
24:29 Jordan: That was my first thought, just like since I know you. I’m like, this would be - yeah. Two very different movies I think. [Veronica and Jordan laughs]
24:40 Sydney: I don’t really know. Um. The only actress I can really think of right now that I liked a lot is Amy Schumer. I think she’s really funny! And every movie she’s in, is just funny. I like it.
24:59 Jordan: You would say right now your life would definitely be a comedy genre?
25:05 Sydney: Oh, it would be a comedy.
[Everyone laughs]
25:08: Jordan: Very nice. I would love to watch both of those movies. Well, thank you Veronica and Sydney, again, for being our guests on this episode of Well Dukes. I hope you both enjoyed your first time! And thank you to the listeners too for sharing this experience with us. Be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss our new episodes that come out every Wednesday. Next week, SOGIE will be back to honor Transgender Day of Remembrance. Sydney, would you like to share our social media for our listeners, if they want to follow along more with what the Well and Well Peers do?
25:44 Sydney: Yes I would! If you guys are interested in keeping up with what The Well is doing, we do, we have an Instagram and Facebook and that is @JMUWellDukes.
25:56 Jordan: Yes, and follow us or the JMU Health Center on social media. And if you have any questions about this episode, or this podcast, you can email us at welldukes@jmu.edu. So remember, appreciate your body. We hope that you took a lot of great information away from this episode, and always, be Well Dukes.
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