Episode 12 Transcript
0:02 Jordan: Hi there! Welcome to Well Dukes, brought to you by the Well. Each week, you’ll hear conversations from a variety of JMU staff and students that we hope challenge what you know, think, or do in regard to your own health, and helps you be Well Dukes.

0:21 Lynn: Welcome everybody to the Well Dukes podcast. My name is Lynn Vassar. And I use they/them pronouns and I'm here with SOGIE today. And today we're going to be talking about the Trans Day of Remembrance. So, if everyone else here wants to introduce themselves…

0:35 Wesley: Hi, I'm Wesley, I use he/they pronouns, and I am a volunteer with SOGIE.

0:41 Zenobia: Hi, my name is Zenobia, I'm the former president for Shades of Pride, the second LGBTQ based organization here at JMU, and my pronouns are she/her/hers.

0:56 Lynn: So we're gonna get started today by talking about a little bit of the history of the Trans Day remembrance so Wes, if you’d like to start us off?

1:04 Wesley: So yeah, some history. Trans Day of Remembrance was started in 1999 by transgender advocate Gwendolyn Ann Smith, as a vigil to honor the memory of Rita Hester, a transgender woman who was killed in 1998. The vigil commemorated all the transgender people lost to violence since Rita Hester's death, and began an important tradition that has become the annual Trans Day of Remembrance. Smith highlighted that Transgender Day of Remembrance seeks to highlight the losses we face due to anti-transgender bigotry and violence. I am no stranger to the need to fight for our rights, and the right to simply exist is first and foremost. With so many seeking to erase transgender people, sometimes in the most brutal ways possible, it is vitally important that those we lose are remembered and that we continue to fight for justice. So that's just a little snippet, about how Trans Day of Remembrance started, and we want to try talking now about why this is significant in general, and why it's significant to you. So, I know, for me, Trans Day of Remembrance is really important because I'm trans and it's, it's a day that I can really set aside to recognize who has helped fight for my rights. Who has helped to fight for, you know, the rights of a lot of my loved ones, and recognize that a lot of progress has been made and some of that progress has been made, you know, through difficult times, and in difficult and brutal ways, as the snippet said. But to also try to not lose hope, or, you know, lose sight of the ultimate goal. I know it's always a really personal day for me.

2:56 Lynn: I think it's so important to remember because I know, just pretty recently, we hit the most trans lives lost to murder annually. And, as of recording this, we still have two months left in the year. It's a scary time. Being trans in this time, it's terrifying. It's so important to remember, not just the lives lost, but to remember that we have to try to put an end to this. We have to move on and live our lives as trans every day.

3:31 Zenobia: I just wanted to say if I could, um, I'm not a person of trans experience but I would definitely consider myself an ally for the trans community. And just to see people walk in their truth, every day, regardless of how dangerous it can be... I absolutely admire you all. Y'all are absolutely some of the most courageous people I've ever known, you know, being queer and being out is so much more different from being trans and being out. And it can be so much more difficult, but y’all still do it and make it look great. So, I would just like to say that I appreciate y’all’s lives, and y’all’s ability to continue to just be yourselves.

4:22 Wesley: Thanks, Zenobia, that's really touching. And I feel like it's, it’s really important to bring up that, yeah, like, like you said, it's different being queer now versus being trans and out. And it's like, there's definitely, you know like, privileges just within the queer community. And I think that when people think of, you know, Trans Day of Remembrance and, trans people dying, they only think of, you know, the murders-- and that is a significant portion of it-- but with what Lynn said about how, you know, for the next two months there's going to probably be even more civil unrest. There's also a lot of trans deaths because of, you know, because of lack of access, you know, to healthcare, to medicine, you know, especially for trans people that go on hormones. And I feel like it's important to remember on Trans Day of Remembrance. But, like, along with the brutal murders that happen there's also, you know, the very sort of, there's also like the sort of medical side and the health care side. And now with, you know, the next coming vice president, Kamala Harris, she has not been known for being pro-trans. She has been... She's been known to put trans women in men’s prisons, and, like, that specifically is something that comes up a lot. And I think that, with her and Joe Biden coming into office soon, it's like we need to not just think about, “Yay, we got Trump out of office,” but now, “Okay, we really need to remember that they still need to do more for us.”

5:58 Zenobia: So I can jump into the intersectionality discussion. Being able to recognize the identity that we have and that we're coming in with, I think that's something that is-- you have to keep in mind, every day. I had to do a health campaign narrative project. It was for class and it was a lot. But it was rewarding because I got to interview a person named Sunny, and they are a non-binary person of trans experience. And we had an interview about their experiences within healthcare, like Wesley was mentioning. It is extremely difficult, the lack of access that trans people have to literally just the basic necessities of life, is ridiculous. And they were telling me about how they were able to get the hormones that they chose and be able to have top surgery, which was something that was very important to them, but their doctor wasn't even kind or warm or, you know, reassuring. And that’s something that is big for a person to go through, and that experience was... It was taken away because of someone else's privilege and the fact that they misused their privilege which is something that is done so much every day that I think it's something that we always have to continue to talk about. To continue to raise awareness and to check ourselves, to see what we can do better, to see how we can help others, and how we can just be better people.

7:46 Wesley: Yeah, I like the note you made about, you know, always checking, like our own sort of, like making sure we're also being aware. And that, and I really like that note, and it's really like... It's really, you know, not just sad but unfair that, Sunny had that, that experience taken away from them.

8:07 Lynn: There's so many different things at play. I know, of the lives lost, there's so many that are trans women, so many that are trans women of color, like it's... There's so much at play when it comes to being trans and having to exist. And it's important to just remember that it’s not just about trans victims, it's about the intersectionality of it. Like it's, it's really scary to live in these times and I think that if we would just be more understanding of what everyone goes through, we could have that conversation and we could do our better, do our best to give that protection that we need.

8:52 Zenobia: All of those were great points. It's, honestly it's, intersectionality plays such a big role in how much a person's experiences depend on who they are. You know, as a black woman, I don't experience the same things as a black trans woman, but we're both women. But the fact that our womanhood is determined from different experiences, makes the black trans woman more at risk than me and that sucks. Because the one thing that I've learned, just from transitioning from being a teenager to an adult, is that womanhood is not just one particular thing, you know. It’s not one thing that makes you a woman, it’s not a period. Honestly, I wish it wasn't, if I could get rid of it I would. But you know, it’s not just that or being able to have children. Anyone can be a mother, anyone can be a father. So it's things like that that you cannot solely rely on when it comes to a person and their womanhood, you know. It’s so many things that ties into it, and each womanhood is different from every single person that embarks on a journey of womanhood. It is different for everyone, every person's personhood is completely different. And that difference needs to be respected enough for everyone's experiences to be respected because all of them are equal, you know like, everyone's experience matters. And just because they may be different from what you know that doesn't make them less validated than yours.

10:40 Wesley: And I feel like a lot of people, like, get sort of intimidated or almost like defensive when intersectionality in different experiences comes up. I feel like people don't want to be ignorant, and it's like well everyone is ignorant at some point. And rather than being scared of that ignorance, try to, you know, own up to it. And, because that way you can not see differences as a divider. But now it's like, okay you're bringing in these different experiences, you know, and it can be like a collaboration, you can learn from each other, you can work with each other. Like with what you were saying, Zenobia, about, like you know your, like, your womanhood. It's not like, you don't need to say you know like we have different womanhoods and that makes us different. It seems more like, you know, you can say, “Okay, we have different ones and we can, you know, share that experience with each other. Like, we can tell each other about it, we can work with each other.” Because, you know, if everyone had the same experiences all the time, then where would we be, right? And I feel like with intersectionality, it just seems like a lot of times when it gets brought up, it's like, “Okay, like, now we're going to talk about intersectionality. And it's sort of like you want to be careful with it, and it's, like, maybe let's try to celebrate it, right? I really like trying to sort of use that word “celebrate” more in terms of identities, you know, because I like to try to celebrate my identity and I try to celebrate other people's identities. And I feel like with Trans Day of Remembrance, it's remembering the trans people that we've lost and moving forward to try to make people recognize that we can celebrate, like, the lives they had and celebrate their identities and try to take that and celebrate everyone else's identities too.

12:34 Lynn: Before we can move forward, let's take a look back on just some of the lives that we have lost. We're going to take some time to read out the names of some of the trans victims, just so we can take some time to remember who they were. Dustin Parker. Neulisa Luciano Ruiz. Yampi Méndez Arocho. Monika Diamond. Lexi. Johanna Metzger. Serena Angelique Velázquez Ramos. Layla Pelaez Sánchez. Penélope Díaz Ramírez. Nina Pop. Helle Jae O’Regan.

13:27 Zenobia: Tony McDade. Dominique “Rem’mie” Feels. Riah Milton. Jayne Thompson. Selena Reyes-Hernandez. Brian “Egypt” Powers. Brayla Stone. Merci Mack. Shaki Peters. Bree Black. Summer Taylor.

14:07 Wesley: Marilyn Cazares. Dior H Ova. Queasha D Hardy. Aja Raquell Rhone-Spears. Kee Sam. Aerrion Burnett. Mia Green. Michelle Michellyn Ramos Vargas. Felycya Harris. Brooklyn Deshuna. Sara Blackwood. Angel Unique. So, for everyone listening to the podcast, you may not know, but most of the names on this list are of black trans women that were killed. And the significance of that, as Zenobia mentioned earlier, is that black trans women are major targets for brutality for… and for anti-transgender hate crimes. And so, especially with, you know, the events of this year, both with the summer and with the election, I think it's really important to highlight that black lives, black trans lives, are high targets for bigotry and it's still happening today and even with, you know, even with the movement from over the summer, there's still so much work to do.

15:44 Zenobia: I remember when the Black Lives Matter movement really took storm over the summer and it was four people that were trending, but it was Tony. Tony McDade that his name was just forgotten. You know we, and I’m not saying this as to say that one black life is better or less than the other, I'm not saying that at all. But we lost Tony the same time that we lost Breonna. And we lost both of them the same time that we lost George Floyd, and it was sickening as a black queer person to see how easily the movement, not the movement itself because Black Lives Matter movement itself was started by queer women. And in my opinion, I think they have done a great job at being inclusive when it comes to making sure that all black lives are representative [sic]. However, the social media take of it left out Tony, and it was sick because he lost his life as well and his life was lost due to police brutality. Why does his trans-ness make his life less valuable? And I don't understand for the life of me, as a black community, we know oppression. Oppression has been our unwanted best friend for centuries. So, knowing this, how can we oppress other people just because it's not what we're used to, or it makes us uncomfortable? And for what? I might get some heat for this but I really don't care. The same people that are still ready to listen to R. Kelly are the same people that did not respect the fact that Tony lost his life as well. So, if you can condone that, then you're the issue. It’s not people who are trans. It is not people who are different from you. It is you, because if you can sit up here and support the guy that is peeing on young girls; however, you do not want to stand up for someone who is already being vic- who is being tormented, who has been discriminated against, who literally has to live their lives looking over their shoulder 24/7 like you do... I don't understand how that's possible. But yeah, I'm done with my little rant.

18:31 Lynn: That was so eloquently put, like I almost don't know what to say now, you said that so well. [Wes: I agree.] Yeah, there was [sic] so many names on that list I didn't recognize, and it's so unfortunate that, to me, these people... They are sometimes just names and that's awful. Like these names should have so much more meaning like they, these people deserve to be remembered.

18:58 Wesley: And it's like it gets into the whole idea and sort of fact that, you know, recently, in our country it's like there's so many people that are just, like, murdered on a daily basis. But it’s like, to us, it's like, you know, kind of like what the school shootings, it's like, “Oh yeah, another school shooting.” You know? And it's like, it just becomes like background noise and it's like these names shouldn't be background noise. Especially, like, when I say these names I mean, I’m refer-- I mean the names of, you know, the black people who are victims of police brutality, but especially in those names we cannot forget all of the trans people. The queer movement was started by black queer, black trans women as Zenobia said. And it's like, I know I didn't know that until I came to college and actually started being involved with the queer community. I know someone who just came out like a little bit ago, like a couple months ago, who, like, really didn't know a lot about the queer community and had no idea who Marsha P Johnson and Sylvia Rivera were. And it's like, we aren't taught that in schools. We aren't told anything about the people who really started the LGBTQ+ movement, you know, and a lot of the people who are like backbones for the queer movement and for, like, the movement for black lives. And these names just keep getting swept under the rug, or, you know, keep getting not any, like, notability if that makes sense. And it's... it's tiring. It's tiring, for sure, seeing more trans people getting killed every day. And, and I think that's why, you know, this day of Trans Remembrance is so important, because it's like okay, it's tiring, but let's remember to actually grieve for these people and grieve for the fact that this is a systemic murder.

21:03 Zenobia: Just one last quick thing, I know when I came to JMU, like Wesley mentioned, I didn't know who Marsha P Johnson was, but I went on Netflix one day because someone told me to watch Paris is Burning. And while I was trying to find that, you know, Netflix blows stuff up, I saw this really huge smile and flowers, and I was like, “Who is she?” So I watched it and I was like, “Okay, I’ll watch Paris is Burning tomorrow.” Like, I had to recharge because it was so much, but once I did find out it was like, “Wow, like, there needs to be a sense of coming together within the black community to protect our women and our people because it is absolutely necessary.”

21:52 Wesley: I love that picture of Marsha P Johnson, the one with her big smile and the flowers. It's... I think it's an iconic photo and I wish that that was the sort of photo that, you know, like a lot of people recognized. And wasn't there, I think there was a movie that came out a little bit ago... Not the documentary, there was like a movie that was supposed to be about the Stonewall Riots-- oh, maybe it was called Stonewall. Um, but apparently, like, they totally messed it up. Like, they had that the Stonewall Riots were started by, I think, cis-gay white men and it's like, “Do you really think that's gonna go over well with the people that actually know what happened?” Like, are you trying to be, you know. Like, what are you trying to do with this? Like, this isn't how it happened. And, and the fact that that's how it was portrayed in a big public movie is just another demonstration of how people want to, you know, sort of, hide the trans community from, um, from our lives. Yeah. But talking about, you know, Sylvia Rivera and Marsha P Johnson, some accomplishments that have been made by the trans community are that we have increased trans awareness and recognition within the LGBTQ+ community. And I believe we sort of already touched on that, um, which is great. And, and I think it's important to continue to recognize and celebrate the trans community’s accomplishments. And so, if there were any that you all wanted to bring up or highlight, you know, different ones that have happened throughout... Um, like for example the Stonewall Riots, which we mentioned earlier, were these riots against police brutality that happened and it was started by black trans women at this commonly known-- at this place called the Stonewall Inn. And that sort of erupted many other riots and actually started people to start doing, like, pride parades and everything like that's how they started. Yeah.

24:14 Lynn: I want to shout out Sarah McBride. who was, just this recent election, the first trans woman to be elected to the Senate. And I think that that's a big step for the trans community to have that kind of representation in politics.

24:29 Wesley: Yeah, it's amazing, it's really really cool.

24:33 Zenobia: I would want to shout out Janet Mock. I feel like, without her, she's one of the reasons why trans women of color have a sense of representation now. It’s not always directed to their body parts or their transition, but it's fully exploring the makeup of their womanhood and who they are as a person. You know, if it wasn't for Janet Mock, we wouldn't have Pose the way that we have Pose. It could potentially be a whitewash, ran-off, that terrible Stonewall movie type of portrayal. So I think she's the one that should definitely be highlighted.

25:18 Wesley: I think this leads well into: do we have any favorite trans icons and why? And I'll go ahead and start, I think this a more modern person. My trans icon is Chella Man. I think a lot of people know him, he is a Deaf, genderqueer person of color. He is a model, he is an activist, and he's also really open on social media about his transition and not just his medical transition, but he talks a lot about you know his sort of his own emotions and feelings and thoughts towards different things with transitioning, with sex, with orientation, with his different identities, especially with being a queer Deaf person. And he is a big role model for me, both in terms of how he looks, I really like how he looks, um, definitely a goal of mine; but also just like the vulnerability, the confidence, and the honesty. He's, again, his name is Chella Man, and he is really cool.

26:32 Lynn: Ash Hardell is definitely one of mine. They’re way lesser known but they're a trans influencer, they're non binary, and they wrote the book The ABC’s of LGBT, and they were a big influence in me realizing that I was nonbinary. Like I’d probably still be living uncomfortably in a gender that wasn't mine if it wasn't for them, and I can't thank them enough for the help that they gave me, specifically, and I'm sure dozens of other trans individuals.

27:05 Zenobia: I would say mine would be Dominique Jackson, Electra from Pose, as you can tell, I’m a huge Pose fan. But, um, I've always followed Dominique outside of Pose, and just finding, like, old clips from her years in ballroom, to her telling her story and writing books, and all the interviews she does. I think she's absolutely inspirational and her story is one that I really think everyone can just learn from and celebrate.

27:41 Wesley: I love that show. And I love that, you know, I mean just the amount of representation in that show is just amazing. Yeah.

27:52 Lynn: Just one final question for everyone: what do we want the listeners to take away after today? What do we want them to take away about the Trans Day of Remembrance?

28:02 Wesley: I think I would love for anyone who's listening to remember that, like, it's okay to, you know, it's okay to grieve the lives lost. And it's also really important to learn something from, you know, both the actions that have been committed against these people and I think, try to gauge, you know, how are people, how are others reacting to it? You know? And engage with your communities about, you know, like, “Oh, these things are happening. Oh, are you aware?,” and talk to people about it and be there for people and along those lines don't forget to celebrate your identity.

28:54 Zenobia: I think- I hope that whoever's listening takes away that, for one, self educate before you go to someone and expect them to educate you. There's so many resources that can be utilized. And by just taking the time to educate yourself, you're already taking this step forward to being a better person and a potential ally. And to also remember, to have that moment when you do grieve, like Wesley was mentioning, you know, it's a lot, and it’s overwhelming. And I can't imagine the type of pain and struggle that it can be for a person of trans experience. But I know, even from when we were listing the names, I teared up, you know. So, just take that moment to grieve, but then keep fighting for them tomorrow, because it's always going to be a fight. And, yes, it is their fight, but it is also something that we can fight with them with, you know like, it's, it's our fight too, and we need to all stand together to make sure that everyone is okay.

30:05 Lynn: I couldn't have put it better myself. So, thank you everyone for tuning in to this week's episode. We were so happy to have this conversation with you. If you want to hear more from SOGIE, you can follow us on Instagram @jmu.sogie. And don't forget to tune into next week for the topic of practicing gratitude. And remember, be well Dukes.
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