0:01 Intro: Hi there, welcome to Well Dukes, brought to you by The Well. Each week, you'll hear conversations from a variety of JMU staff and students that we hope challenge what you know, think, or do in regards to your own health and helps you be Well Dukes. 

0:22 Mikayla: Hey Dukes, it's Mikayla. 

0:24 Jordan: And I'm Jordan. And it's February! Mikayla, it's our favorite month. 

0:31 Mikayla: It's Healthy Sexuality Month! 

0:33 Jordan: Yeah, so we've got some great episodes coming up this month on all things sexual health for y'all. 

0:39 Mikayla: Yes and kicking that off with today's conversation that you were able to have for the Well Dukes podcast. 

0:47 Jordan: Yeah, I got to talk to Javay da BAE, who is a JMU alum and is now pursuing a Master of Education degree in Human Sexuality Studies. So, what a great guest to have. We talked about masturbation, and how COVID got the conversation going a lot more. We also discussed the way someone can experience an orgasm and what happens in the body when they do so, because talking about these things just really hasn't been happening, and we know people are doing it. 

1:13 Mikayla: Well alright then. Let's get to it.


[Musical Interlude]
1:18 Jordan: Hi Javay! 

1:20 Javay: Hello! 

1:21 Jordan: Thanks for being on today's episode with me.

1:24 Javay: Of course. Thank you for having me.

1:26 Jordan: Yeah, well I must say I'm super excited because I love when I ever have the opportunity to kind of geek out with other sexperts, or people that enjoy talking about sex that are comfortable with it. So, before we get into the good stuff of today's episode, I'd like to take some time for our listeners just to learn a little bit more about you, because you are in fact a JMU Duke. [Javay: I am.] So, yes you graduated in 2016, but can you tell us a little more about what you're doing and what you're studying now?

2:00 Javay: Yeah, so I am currently in grad school to get my Master's in Human Sexuality at Widener University. So that's what I'm doing now-- I am talking about sex basically 24/7.

2:16 Jordan: Nice! And what do you hope to do with that degree?

2:22 Javay: So my work focuses on free, comprehensive, inclusive sex education for everyone, and I am hoping to continue on to get my PhD in Human Sexuality so that way I can eventually go on to teach it in the academic setting of undergraduate and graduate classrooms.

2:37 Jordan: Yes, awesome. I'm so happy to hear that. Any chance we'll see you come back to JMU and teach that?

2:45 Javay: One can only hope, but also my husband is not really about moving back to the east coast, so we'll see.

2:53 Jordan: Well, again, super excited to have you here. I'm familiar with the Widener program, it's a great program. I know a lot of other sex educators, and people that work in this sexuality field, have graduated through that program. So I’m feeling very honored to be having some of this conversation with you today. So on today's episode, we are talking about orgasms and masturbation. Two very fun topics, I would say, at least in my opinion. And really some things that we don't talk about enough, especially in college health and with young people, right? So, I love that you did say you focus on comprehensive sex education because talking about orgasms and masturbation is a part of that and we're not doing students and young people any favors by not talking about it. [Javay: Nope.] So, I want to share though, I think, even coming from my perspective of working in college health and sexual health here at JMU. When we teach and talk about sex, it's always still from a harm reduction approach. We, we definitely know young people are having sex, they may be choosing to have sex. We've talked in previous episodes about sexual projects, but really when we do sex education, it's still very focused on STI prevention, unplanned pregnancy prevention, and that's very important. But it has kind of felt like when we want to talk about, again the good stuff: masturbation, orgasms, why people have sex, especially at a young age because it's probably not for creating life, right? They're having sex because it feels good, and that's totally valid, but it has always felt like we kind of had to tiptoe around the topic of masturbation and orgasms and pleasure. So we've started to increase our education and conversation. Having those conversations include pleasure, but it's still always almost felt like we had to be careful with it. And, 2020, COVID, surprisingly, in our office we sometimes call these our “COVID bonuses,” but COVID actually helped open the conversation more about masturbation. And so we know that that came from the New York City Health Department when they released the guidelines on sex during a pandemic. And so it was really great in the public health realm and be like okay one, great someone's talking about it, and two, this is very real, you know, when people are encouraged to stay home and to not interact with people outside of their home. What are they supposed to do when they're horny? And so I just love that they were actually pretty open saying like, “Yeah, stay home but that means masturbation.” You are your safest sex partner. And that right there is harm reduction.

5:57 Javay: It's-- I, when I saw that come out, I was like... At first I just laughed for a good little bit and then I was like, “Thank you.” One, because so many people are like “You're not a doctor, I'm not gonna listen to you,” so it coming from, like, a major government, like, health department, people are like, “Oh wait, really?” So it was really good to see, but then also it definitely made it a little bit easier for sex educators and folks within, like, the sexuality profession to be like: “But no actually listen to me I've been saying this for a minute, but please masturbate.” Like it's, it's gonna save us all a lot of trouble, especially in the midst of a pandemic. I was very happy to see that come out and then how it just continues to circulate, especially like every few months because we've been in this pandemic for almost a year now, and every few months I'll see it pop up again and they're like, “Hey, check this out, you should masturbate instead of going to hook up,” and I’m like, “See y'all? Please just masturbate.” I will always and forever advocate for you to masturbate, but like even health departments are telling you to do it so why not do it?

6:55 Jordan: I love that. Advocate to masturbate.

7:01 Javay: I call myself a masturbator advocator, like that's my, like, little title that I gave myself.

7:06 Jordan: Yeah, I love it. Yeah. And so it almost has felt, again working as a sexual educator working with sex, almost liberating to finally be like, I mean, not that we didn't already know this but exactly, to have that more government, more trusted resource, finally coming out and saying it-- I think there was some rejoicing from sex educators all around. And just unexpectedly that it took a pandemic to for people to finally be like, say the word masturbate and then also be like, yes. Well, I mean, when people are locked indoors for months at a time.

7:44 Javay: They gotta get their energy out somehow. 

7:47 Jordan: Exactly. Yeah, and so kind of doing that with masturbation. Experiencing pleasure with oneself and if we’re from the context of someone who lives alone, or if they don't have any sort of partner, intimate partner living with them, or that they are not going out and finding intimate partners during that time. But when we talk about masturbation, really it’s the sense of, it's touching yourself and touching parts of your body that feel good. And again, when someone is being isolated, not really getting together, not getting to have those social interactions. Of course we're going to start to experience that skin hunger more and want to, to have that release have that sense of pleasure. So I want to talk about when we masturbate, and when someone masturbates what, why is it beneficial? And what really happens?

8:50 Javay: So, let's just start with the beneficial pieces and, like, the first ones that pop into people's minds like-- it feels good. Like that's the greatest benefit of masturbation, like you were doing an activity that feels good. How often in our day-to-day lives do we do something that we actually enjoy? Not very often because we got to pay bills. So, mastur- is this great activity that you're like, “No, I'm doing this because it feels good,” solely that, but even on the deeper, more biological/physiological level, it does so much for your health. Masturbation is like, you know how to say, an apple a day keeps the doctor away? Masturbation a day keeps like all ailments away in my personal opinion, because you have the, like, the way blood just rushes through your body, the release of that feel good endorphin oxy-- I'm not even trying to say it I've literally fumble it up every time. [Jordan: Oxytocin.] But, there we go. The release of oxytocin that feel-good endorphin. It just, it masturbating helps your mood, helps your mental health, it helps your stress levels-- like it does everything good that you would get if you went and like took a run without having to run, because let's be real. No. But it gives you great benefits and you don't have to be like well I guess I'll get on a treadmill. No, I can do this at home in my bed. My favorite place in the world. But one of the, one of my favorite benefits of masturbation is learning your body because, once we are out of this pandemic and we're back to interacting with others and other individuals, you have spent all this time masturbating you've learned like, “Yes this is the money spot. Yes, this is what I love. No, please stop, I don't enjoy that.” Like, you have learned all these things that, if you don't masturbate, you honestly will not get because you can't guarantee that a partner is ever going to stimulate you in X, Y, and Z way. So masturbation gives you this little open field to run around in and be like, “Cool. Oh wow. Oh, this spot right here this is a magic money spot, like I'm always going to do this,” or like, “Oh, this right here. Well this is good, only in X, Y and Z moments but I like it.” Like you learn things, and then it also helps you to be able to articulate it. If you can be like, “Oh wait if you actually rub this like part of my inner thigh right here, like that just makes me like squirm,” that you can articulate, but if you don't even know it for yourself how are you going to relay it to a partner? Or a new partner if you are moving to new relationships? To be like hey do this because I've already learned that it works for me if you don't masturbate, you're not going to find these things. So that's one of my favorite benefits of masturbation, actually learning what you like instead of just assuming that you like things because you saw it in porn, or your friend down the street was like, “Oh, this is my favorite thing to do in bed.” We're not all the same, so you gotta try it out.

11:30 Jordan: Exactly. Yeah, so well said, but mostly I'm laughing because this is just another example of how we talked about our services in The Well. We… in college health, that at this age we want people to start understanding they are the experts of themselves and so you've got to know, you know what's best for you. You can't expect your partner to know exactly the best way to touch you, where you'd like to be touched. And people, we’re compared to others in so many other ways in our life and have to deal with that. So when it comes to sex and being intimate with someone we don't want to be compared to other people, and just because something felt good for someone else or, you know, if someone is like, “Well, my last partner enjoyed this so I'm just going to keep doing it”. We don't want to put that expectation on someone else and our new partners, so it is helpful. And I know for listeners this might, might sound, you know, like, well that's really... no that's weird. I can't imagine telling someone exactly how to touch me, but this is part of creating the conversation and having that open communication during these intimate moments. So if you know what feels good for you and what you're comfortable with - being able to share that with a partner is going to make the experience better. Hopefully, that they're listening, you know, so we need that we need them to actually listen as well. But yeah, it goes back to, like, if it's not good, why are you doing it? [Javay: Right.] and waste time getting yourself already and putting out effort if you're not gonna have good sex.

13:09 Javay: Seriously, like if we've learned anything over the past year, we are only getting the goods out of things and that means you need to be getting the good out of sexual interactions with others and yourself.

13:19 Jordan: Yeah, and then going back to orgasms, again, I get when people talk about sex and teach about sex it's always from, you know, avoid this, don't do this, You'll get these and you got to do this and this. The conversation about the benefits of sex are just not happening. And we believe that, you know, if we can focus on good comprehensive sex education and if we can focus on getting people to have those good conversations, that open communication, that too in itself can prevent the unwanted experiences, you know, and sometimes we know that there can be harmful situations happening. But if we can focus more on, like we said, having good experiences and talking about the benefits of it, orgasms, as you said, right? It's increased blood flow to all parts of the body. It's the release of different hormones and endorphins and even dopamine so the pleasure reward center of our brain like art the brain has connected to orgasms and sex, so much! That’s another thing people don't talk about like, we hear sex - we think about genitals. But really the brain...

14:28 Javay: ...is the biggest sex organ.

14:29 Jordan: Exactly! Like you can't even have sex if your brain is not in the right place for it, right? Because that's what starts the sexual response cycle. It’s sending the signals. I'm not going to pretend I can use all the, you know, physiological terms, but essentially the brain is sending the signals like “Hey, this feels good”. It starts releasing the blood flow to the genitals which helps create either an erection or vaginal lubrication that gets ready for sex, and then through that continuous stimulation and whatever way that is for someone, it kind of starts building up to as we call the orgasmic phase of the sexual response cycle. Then, once that orgasm happens that release. Again, release of all the muscles tightening, and then they relax. That just feels good. Life hack - you can do that at any time just kind of, you know, like contracting all of your muscles and then releasing, but then the brain also releases all of those hormones and endorphins, like you said, how it feels going for run, but probably some people would venture like, “Yeah I'd rather lay in bed and get off”.

15:38 Javay: Yeah. I think it's also important to talk about actual orgasms because when people don't - when you experience your first one you kind of like, “Is this supposed to be happening?” And then you’re like, “Stop the good,” because you're like, “I don't know what's going on”. And not talking about orgasms, these people stunted from getting the maximum pleasure out of experiences, because if you just watch porn you think, “Oh, this is how I’m supposed to orgasm,” but we all experienced orgasm so differently. Like, for some people, it's like, “My full body is convulsing. I'm shivering, shaking, trembling”. For some it's just like, “Yeah got tense and then it released. My toes curled and that was like the extent of it, but it felt so dang good”. For others, it looks different for so many different people. But if we don't explain that it looks different, people are gonna expect that it has to look just the way it does in porn or just the way it's described to them by one other person. And then once again, we're all being slighted on experiencing pleasure. And that just does not work.

16:36 Jordan: Yeah. The movie “When Harry Met Sally” was kind of on of... what is known in pop culture for that one scene and again our listeners, this movie came out well before they were born. I, it's you older for me, but I know this that that's kind of one of the first times people were like, oh my gosh, there's that scene where she's pretend... she's talking about how she fakes an orgasm and pretending and she's having this like moaning and yelling and people are starting to look at her. And it's giving this notion that that's what an orgasm is like. And that's how someone can fake an orgasm if you're just, you know, doing this moaning and grunting and screaming. But as you were saying, is it helping others to realize like well, no if you don't have that experience if that's not your experience, it’s okay! You're not broken. Nothing's wrong with you. I'd venture to say most people don't have that. And that's what we see in things in pornography and movies that it's meant again for entertainment and it's meant to even be a little bit maybe over-sexualized. So in real life, when someone has an orgasm, it may not be this huge loud… all types. I think there's a lot of different things we see going on - different “O” faces and, you know, what it looks like to the face someone makes when they're having an orgasm. But, yes, as you said Javay, the point is, it's going to look different for different people. Some people are louder, some people do make noises, some people may be more quiet, some people may have these full body convulsions. Some people may not. Some people have toes curl. Some people don't, you know, all of these, these different things, but as someone experiencing orgasms for the first time, it can be confusing because you're like, “Did I? Did I just have one? Because I, I didn't react in the way that I heard my friend say that they experience it or what I've seen?” Then it creates this confusion. Is something wrong with me? Which then can start creating again possible shame, around it and that is not what we want.

18:56 Javay: We want shame free sex lives.

18:59 Jordan: Yes, yeah. Something else to talk about with orgasms too, knowing that people may experience them differently. I think it's also important to talk about that there are different types of orgasms and how people may experience an orgasm and kind of how they even get to that. So actually what parts of the body can help some inexperience in orgasm?

19:24 Javay: It's actually shocking. There are so many different types of orgasms available and numbers are not my strong suit so I'm not going to give you a number... But know that there are over five different types of orgasms you can have, especially depending on your physical anatomy. So if you have a vulva, you have clitoral orgasms (and that's internal and external because the clitoral is ginormous if you did not know there are lots of parts to it). You have vaginal ones which is basically an internal one. You also can have cervical orgasms, which I think is astonishing because no one talks about it. Actually, I think we're trained to think the cervix is the scary thing that we only think about when it comes time to like push babies out, but like that's not the case. But your cervix can also experience some pleasure. And then if we're just like moving away from genitals, you got nipple orgasms which are mind-blowing. And just depending on the level, like how intensely you feel touch, you can potentially have an orgasm on any part of your body, any erogenous zone depending on how you are touched, how you feel touched, how intense it is or how light it is. There's really nothing holding you back, and then, back to anatomy, if you have a penis, then you obviously have penile orgasms from stimulating the entire penis, the head. There are also organs that can happen just from stimulating the scrotum and the balls. But the least talked about in my personal opinion is the prostate orgasm. Like, the prostate if you do not know is located in the anus. And so you could stimulate a lot of different ways the most direct stimulation can happen from like, stimulating by fingering inside the butthole. And it's what I am like the biggest, like, fan of prostate orgasms because they have so many underrated benefits; but also like so many people are like avoidant of the butt for a lot of reasons, like we can talk about that later, but it's so great because prostate orgasms actually minimize your chances of getting prostate cancer. I'm like, that is the number one reason you should be masturbating your prostate! Minimize cancer. Massage your prostate, enjoy it, live in that glorious feeling, and like, you know do anything but there's so many different types of orgasms available and we're just not taught them all, which I think is a disservice to people. So we should learn them all, and try them all out because some you might like more than others.

21:58 Jordan: Yes. And as you were just saying I mean with all those different types. Maybe we'll-- hopefully we'll have an episode in the future diving more into them. And we'll try to start incorporating them in our programs, but back to what you said earlier, is shame free sex lives. And right they're talking about, especially with prostate stimulation, that is the one where we see the most shame for people with the prostate right? It's, there's always been this stigma of like, “No, that's, that's weird. Why would I do that?” even though in medical settings they've been doing it for years, you know to check for prostate cancer it's like it. So you're okay with a doctor doing it but you wouldn't want your sexual partner doing it? Where you're probably already a lot more intimate? And not to say-- I hope I don't scare listeners into thinking that when they go in for a prostate exam, that they are then experiencing sexual pleasure. Yeah, there.

22:49 Javay: It all starts the same, yeah. 

22:40 Jordan: And so absolutely though right there those different, the different ways to experience an orgasm. I just… I think it's admirable when I think about people who can experience pleasure and orgasms from all of those different modes because it just shows how truly in touch they may be with their body. I mean-- there's a pun there. So no, actually no pun intended, but how in touch they are with their bodies that they can feel that comfortable, again, whether it's with themselves, or with a partner that they're able to experience orgasms from, like you said, without even any genital stimulation. So I think it takes a level of intimacy and connection there to do that and, again, like to be able to be in that mindset, you know, to really kind of be able to-- the brain plays a big role again so really just to be focused on the touch and what your body is feeling, to start sending those nerve signals and in reaching that orgasmic phase of the sexual response cycle, I think it's really cool.

24:09 Javay: Yeah, I think it's also important to note that experiencing an orgasm is not-- I recommend it not being, like, your goal going into anything. Like, I think that it is a good byproduct but the whole point should be to experience pleasure, whether that means an orgasm is experienced or, “This just felt good and I enjoyed it for the time that I did it,” and then I was like, “Cool I guess I'll go eat a bowl of cereal or whatever.” It doesn't have to be like, “Oh, I'm going into this and I'm going to have six orgasms and it's gonna be so good,” because once again the brain is a sex organ and that pressure that you're creating in your brain to be like, “You got to do it this way,” is literally the opposite of making it happen. That is how it doesn't happen-- you're telling yourself. “I'm gonna I'm gonna.” and your body's like, “Wait, but I can't, I don't perform well under pressure.” It's literally like if your body were to have to go back to the gen-ed COMM class and do those speeches again and your body's like, “Alright I can't perform in this situation. Please let me out.” That is what happened to me. Like, I had to orgasm. So maybe don't go into it with that, just be like it'd be cool if it happens but I'm just going to experience my body in this moment of masturbation and not be like I'm masturbating to orgasm.

24:53 Jordan: Yeah, absolutely. So we like to try to say “experience” orgasm not “achieving,” because that word achieve makes it sound like, “Oh I must do it and if I don't achieve something then it feels like a failure,” but really it's just about the experience, again with yourself and touching yourself learning about your body and feeling good, and whatever that may look like to you. And that's, again, I think kind of the cool part that it gets to be unique to yourself. In addition to be--as long as it is safe and legal, there's going to be shame around it. Yeah. So that's really, uh, gosh. We could talk so much longer right but that's really all the time we have. And so I want to give you some time today to share with our listeners where they can learn more about you, the work that you're doing, and how they can follow you, so please plug all of your resources here because it's been awesome having this conversation with you.

26:26 Javay: Yes. So if you're looking for a one stop shop for all things sex education, definitely visit themillennialsexpert.com. You can also find me on YouTube, just search Javay da BAE or themillennialsexpert, and I am on Twitter and Instagram @javaydabae, and I also have solely just a sex education Instagram @millenialsexpert. And if you are wanting to venture into the world of pleasure tools to help with your masturbation. You can also check out @thepleasureparlor for my online sex shop.

27:04 Jordan: Awesome. We will have all of those resources in our episode description as well as the transcript again for you all to check out. I highly encourage you to do so. Just, and again, learning about all of the ways, you know, open your mind to, to all of this is just part of the journey. Well thank you again, Javay. This has been great. I say I’m just smiling all the time so I just, I love talking to people, yeah, getting to have these conversations. So we will be... Well, we're working with you a little bit more this semester, so we may hear from you again on future episodes but if not we will definitely keep you within our social media and keep it going so students can see just what another great Duke has gone on to do.

27:52 Javay: Wonderful, thank you so much.

[Musical Interlude]

27:58 Jordan: That was so great. I enjoyed that so much. Like, my cheeks hurt just from smiling and laughing. 

28:07 Mikayla: That is - I have to admit this is probably one of my favorite episodes that we've done for a lot of reasons. One, Javay being a JMU alum and just having that really cool connection. And then, just tackling a topic that I feel like so many students want to know about, but there's not really been an outlet to have that conversation. So, there was so many great tidbits of information in that. I found myself smiling throughout it. I'm like, “Yeah! This shouldn't be that hard of a conversation to have”. But yet, oftentimes, because they're like, “Oh, this is such a taboo topic,” but you all made it just sounds so easy and free to talk about so I loved it. That was great.

28:46 Jordan: Thank you. I appreciate it. And yeah, I mean, like we said, gosh! We could talk so much more about and there's still so much to, so I'm a little biased. This is also one of my favorite episodes so far. But yeah, I think that we will hopefully have some more episodes in the future just diving in a little bit deeper because there's so much we didn't get to talk about, including also mentioning how orgasms also benefit the body because they're a great stress reliever. And we know that students are stressed out all the time. So…

29:18 Mikayla: And in the time of COVID, what are you going to do?

29:21 Jordan: Yeah, I need a steady break, but also, we have some great resources too though for students if you do want to talk about, maybe, you know, if you do have questions or concerns about your body or, you know, with your performance, as Javay said. If your brain is not into it and you're putting this expectation on yourself, it can be really hard to perform. And so if that's something you feel like you may be experiencing also this is just another resource plug that we do have Sexual Health Coaching where you can come talk to someone about some of that. That’s here at The Well and you can schedule those appointments online so we'll have information on that in the episode description too. 

30:04 Mikayla: And be sure to follow us on Instagram @JMUWellDukes to find out more about our services like Sexual Health Coaching, but also our programs that are coming up. February is Healthy Sexuality Month and we're going to have a lot, so be sure to follow us and check out all those great resources. 

30:22 Jordan: Yes, thank you listeners for tuning in. Giving just another shout out to Javay da BAE, make sure you follow her on all of her social media and her website. Next week's episode is going to be on hooking up and relationships during college. So be sure to come back and check that out! And if you're listening to this for HTH 100 your passcode is “pleasure”. You know, that thing you can experience when you do masturbate. So, remember everyone be well, Dukes.