Episode 19 Transcript 

Transcript

0:01 Intro: Hi there, welcome to Well Dukes, brought to you by The Well. Each week, you'll hear conversations from a variety of JMU staff and students that we hope challenge what you know, think, or do in regards to your own health and helps you be Well Dukes. 

0:21 Jordan: Hey there! Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Well Dukes! It’s Jordan and with me today I have a guest co-host - Aj Levy! Hi Aj!

0:31 Aj: Hello! 

0:33 Jordan: So Aj, it’s that time of the year where love is in the air. Unfortunately, this year that love is also mixed with the coronavirus but we can’t escape the fact that a lot of people are thinking about their relationships.

0:45 Aj: So for this week’s episode you had a conversation with two awesome students about hook-up culture and relationships for the holiday.

0:53 Jordan: I did! I talked to Megan Moore and Andrew O’Brien. Megan is a senior Communication Studies major minoring in Music Industry and Andrew is a senior Health Sciences major concentrating in Public Health Education. We talked about how “hooking-up” can mean different things, how and why we put labels on relationships and how it can be difficult, and how people are meeting romantic partners in college. 

1:16 Aj: Alright, let’s get to the episode!

[Musical Interlude]

1:21 Jordan: Hi Andrew. Hi Megan. Thank you for doing this with me. 

1:25 Megan: Hi, thank you for having us.

1:28 Andrew: Hi, thanks for having us.

1:30 Jordan: All right, so this episode -  as we know, Valentine's Day is coming up, so we are going to talk a little bit about what's on everyone's mind at this time of year and that's dating, relationships, hooking up, what's going on around this time of year for young people, so I am really excited to have you two and to have two students because I'm not in the dating scene, especially not in college anymore. So, I'm really excited to hear your all's perspectives and what you think is going on. So, first just want to kind of address the term “hooking up.” That's one thing we hear a lot - I hear a lot of students talk about like, you know, the “hookup culture” and young people and college students, I think almost even get this possible misperception placed on them by society that in college, that's all- that's all people are doing is hooking up and dating. It's just so dramatic. It almost seems as if it's very binary. It's like people are either not dating, single, or you're on the other end that you're hooking up, your life is super dramatic, and there's not really an in between, and I- I really don't think that's the case. So, what do you all think about that? What is “hooking up?” What does that even mean for young people?

3:00 Andrew: When I hear hooking up, I, well, I think it's most college students think having sex, but also it doesn't really have any clear cut definition, because you know I've talked to people and then talking about even the term “hooking up,” and they're like, “so what does that mean? Making out, kissing, having sex?” So, there's no real, like, definition of- definition of it, so it makes it kind of hard when you're, I guess, talking about it to be more specific.

3:32 Megan: No yeah, Andrew, I totally think you're right. I am in this group chat, and a couple weeks ago someone posted this poll that said, “What is hooking up?” And it was like, okay, is it having sex? and that about 50% or, “Oh, its just making out” and that’s like 15% and whatever the other options were, but it was a wide variety of answers and someone put in there, “Y'all, sex education failed you in high school,” and I'm like yeah okay yeah it did obviously but that's a whole other conversation - a whole other podcast, Jordan that I can come on for later - but as far as, as far as this goes, it's not based off of sex ed, it's not. It's like every single college, institution, area of the world has this weird mindset of what hooking up is and then inside of that, each individual person has their own definition of that, too. So, I was talking to my roommates about this, too, and I said, “oh yeah to me hooking up would definitely be making out,” but my roommate said, “oh no no no, that's definitely having sex,” and I think it just depends. And that's why when when you're in a relationship with somebody, no matter if that be, you know, platonic, if that just be having sex one time, casually, committed, whatever,- having those kind of guidelines of, “are we just hooking up? What is this?” is really important so that both of you are on the same page.

4:53 Andrew: Yeah, I definitely agree because communication would be the key for that because, like, I don't know. It all comes from other people. When you're in a relationship people want to ask like “oh, what are you guys? What are you doing?,” and like, that's why we have these terms that we need to explain, like, exactly like to other people like what the relationship is, or like what you're engaging in I guess, so.

5:18 Megan: Yeah, and Jordan you asked us-, you kind of posed this earlier of, you know, this misconception of coming into college and thinking that this is what you have to do, and I remember that! I remember being a first year and coming in and thinking, okay when I go to parties, I have to dress up and look a certain way, so that I can “hook up,” right - that’s what we're talking about - with somebody because that's important to me because it's like that's what I should be doing in college. And I saw my friends doing that and I saw my hall mates doing that. And one of my guy friends even said, “Oh, it's not a successful night if I don't hook up with a girl.” And that was my perception of what college was when I first came in to JMU and now, being a senior, I think it's a lot different because I've been through the life experience of, you know, what it means to be on the other side and I’ve grown and I've matured, but I think that's a really common experience of going into college and I think that's really unfortunate. 

6:18 Jordan: Yeah, thank you for sharing that Megan. Yeah, you- well, I want to go back first and I want to highlight the individualization, I think, of this topic of how it is based on context to each individual person. What is hooking up, what does that mean to them? And then you all started talking about even what that means in the relationship. Is a hooking up a type of relationship, right, -  is it sort of verb, is it a noun -  and then you kind of both started getting into the different types of relationships and so that's something else I'd like to address. Again, I've shared with our listeners my role is doing healthy sexuality, sound sexuality education for college students, and I try to keep relevant (giggles). You know, I know it's important to think about and I hear these different terms, and it is kind of confusing. It's like, Well, wait, if someone's hooking up, are you dating? What does dating mean? Is it serious? Is it a- are you talking? Is it a situationship?, right? There's so many terms used and it's constantly changing, constantly evolving, and it can be hard to keep up and with that I really just want to say, it is whatever it is to you. You just want to be on the same page with the other person or other people involved, Megan, as you were saying. But what are some of the different types and relationships that you hear about? And yeah, I think, also, Is there a difference in the year of someone in college? Again, Megan, that you were kind of referencing, you know, early on and beginning of college, it's one way a minute, for you it shifted to feeling differently now in your senior year. What all have you seen, you know, from yourselves or from peers?

8:23 Andrew: I've seen from myself and peers, like- There's definitely a freshman college, like, hookup culture, where you go into college,- I mean, it's kind of normal, it’s the first time you're living with people like your age and like close quarters, like partying and stuff, and you see on like movies and TV of like, what you should expect going into college. And then I guess later on, I  think, like I've experienced, and like, I don't know, junior, senior year, because I'm a senior now like it transitions from trying to hook up with people. Like Megan said, like people sometimes will say “it's not a successful night out if you don't hook up with someone,” whatever that means -  making out, having sex, whatever - and then I've seen, like my friends and people I've talked to, they like, I think you will get sick of it as the years go on and college and they would rather have a long-term, committed, exclusive, whatever-you-want-to-call-it relationship, by Junior and Senior year, because it can get exhausting. And then there's also the conflict of wanting to get in a relationship after, maybe, people have gotten over the whole hookup scene, and then you graduate. Then when you graduate, you move away, get jobs somewhere else, and that can be conflicting.

9:38 Megan: Yeah. Can I ask, Andrew, you said in there,- you said something, like “switches?” Like, “people get sick of it,” you said, halfway through. Did that happen to you, or to someone that you know? Like, what happens in your brain between, I don't know, sophomore, junior year that something switches?

9:55 Andrew: Couldn't tell you. I'll just say, I definitely think it happened to me. Honestly, I've never been the whole type of person to be into the “hookup culture,” I guess. But I think like, maybe- Well, this is my opinion, but like maybe maturity, or like people just,- they want something stable, or they want someone they can like depend on when they get, like, later years in college, someone they can like talk to you about personal stuff, and then maybe at the beginning... I don't know what changes, honestly, but I feel like a flip switches, for some people. 

10:34 Megan: Yeah, no, I think that's really real. I think that happens to a lot of us. And I saw that in myself too, as I said earlier I-  Coming into college, I said this is what I have to be doing. I have to be having sex and doing the things like you said, Andrew, that I've seen in movies and whatnot. And now I realize college is not like that, I think, in real life. And there are those different types of relationships and going back to your question, Jordan, of, you know, what are these different types of relationships, and not only types but stages. You know, we say “talking.” What does “talking” even mean? Does that mean genuinely just talking to each other because me talking to you, Jordan and Andrew right now we're not talking, we’re talking to each other, right? But you know, talking would mean, I think, there's potential there, but then because there are never any guidelines of- When you're talking to somebody, you don't say, “Oh, we're talking right now,” like you don't set those rules and those guidelines, so it's kind of this gray area of “yeah I think that we are but I'm not sure.” And then if that kind of goes on but it's usually okay we're dating, but does dating mean that you're just going on dates or does that mean that you're in a committed relationship with each other because to me that's what that means, but other folks dating just genuinely means you know going on dates with one another. And then there's like actual partners which then you're in a committed relationship for, like more than like six months or whatnot. And that kind of just goes back to the point where you need to be communicating -  Andrew you said that earlier - communication is the key with being with your partner, significant other, whatever, to make sure that you are on that same page.

12:14 Andrew: Yeah, having all these labels, just to me, is just so dumb. There's, like you said, “talking” like it doesn't even make sense when you're talking about like a relationship. It shouldn't even be a term that should be used. But like, I guess people think, when they say, “talking” it means like even, I don't know, like talking about having something further than a casual relationship, but then there's like we've been “hanging out” I heard people say that. Yeah, like we mentioned earlier, “hooking up”, and I really think it all just comes from, like, not communicating with the person that you're like in whatever relationship with. You have to put some sort of label on it, but you don't know if you're not talking to them, because it all, it literally all comes from people asking you, “what's going on between you two?”. And you feel like you have to say some label of what stage you're in, or what situation you're in.

13:10 Jordan: Yeah, exactly, that's what I was just thinking about - an observation that I've had over the years, going all the way from myself, for my friends, and now working with college students. What I wanted to contribute is that what I think I see is people not wanting to admit their vulnerability and their desire to have intimacy. So going back to Andrew, what you said - something switches with that maturity. I think sometimes that's what it is is recognizing that maybe they do want some intimacy in a relationship. And once again, this is another example of conversations that aren't really happening. And for people to realize and be able to admit that and say it's okay. And as you were saying it oftentimes these labels come because people just wanting to know, but like, “Hey, what's up?” or “What are y'all doing? Are you talking? Are you hanging out?”. It’s like, “Well yes, we are in fact talking, we in fact see each other and hang out. We do go on dates”. And, you know, I think there's this need to be able to identify what it is. And sometimes we can put these vague labels on them because someone may not just be willing to express, you know, or be, they may at that point be afraid to actually say how they're feeling about that person, you know? So it kind of masks, possibly what they're feeling, you know? They don't want to admit that they actually are “catching feels” if you all still say that or not, right? So it's kind of just like, “Yeah, we're just hanging out, but not wanting to admit to your friends and your buddies. I actually really liked this person and this is a new feeling for me and it feels a little scary. I haven't done this before,” and just not really wanting to show that vulnerability.

14:57 Andrew: I will say, I've definitely experienced that before, like, scared to tell other people like you have feelings for someone when you're in a... and it may be a transitioning from a casual or relationship to or like a friendship, even to something else. And I know a lot of people are like, afraid of whatever catching fields because there's... there are... there's students that I've talked to, like, both sides of the spectrum, I guess. People are afraid to catch fields because it's a generalization that a lot of people in college don't want to be committed. They want to keep their options open, and then also people don't want to put themselves out there a lot because they don't want to, I don't know, admit to someone that they have feelings and scare them or like it's just a bunch of miscommunication and yeah.

15:52 Megan: No, I get that. I think coming to college is such a scary process in general. And so then when you're going into these new relationships trying to be vulnerable and disclosing all this personal information, that's really scary in itself, you know? So I absolutely understand that, but I also want to say that I feel like it's okay to not have a label on something. And even if your conversation with your significant other or your partner is, “Hey, I don't want to label this right now,” that's okay because you're having that conversation around it, saying, “I don't want to put any labels on this to put any pressure or change the dynamic”. That’s totally cool because you're having that conversation about not labeling it. And I think in that situation, and this is what y'all were saying earlier, is that when you're labeling things a lot of times that is for other people. That it’s for your friends and for your family who are interested in wanting to know what's going on between you two, but that's your relationship. So you have control over what's going on and that's your business. No one else really needs to know what's going on. So I'm a strong believer in if you don't think something needs a label and don't put a label on it just have that conversation about not putting a label on it.

17:04 Andrew: One hundred percent. I agree, because like you just mentioned, kind of when you put a label on it, it can make it, sometimes, it can make things complicated between you and the other person. Because, like, you might have, you might have different labels in your head. Or like, when you're telling other people about your situation... it honestly just complicates things, unless, I mean, I guess, if you're talking about, if you wanting to be exclusive or not hook up or have sex with other people, that can be a conversation to have. Saying you want to just be with that other person or whatever. See, it’s like another label, like be with only be with that other person. But labels, I feel like I totally agree that it can be okay not to put a label on something, because it can complicate things sometimes.

17:54 Jordan: So, sounds like. Just be.

17:59 Andrew: Be with that person, and enjoy their company and like, I don't know, enjoy your relationship. 

18:08 Jordan: Yeah. 

18:09 Andrew: Whatever it is.

18:12 Jordan: I want to switch gears a little bit, still continue talking about dating, but being in college. And if someone is deciding, they want to start hooking up, or maybe they've decided that they are wanting something a little bit more serious and genuine with someone else. How do people start dating in college? Again, you all have referenced TV shows and movies and we know that life is not like that. And in those shows it seems so easy, right? Someone just comes up and drops a good pickup line, or they're meeting people in all these different places. And I… is that what you all see happening now or is it totally different?

18:50 Megan: I will say, I will say, that didn't happen to me once. I was in line at Chick-fil-A and this, this man came up to me and said, “You are the most beautiful woman I've ever seen in my whole entire life,” and I said, “Okay, here we go”. So that can happen. That can't happen. Like the pickup lines that you see in the movies, but foreshadowing it didn't end up very well. So maybe that isn’t the best example, but I think a lot of times right now, it's Tinder, it's Bumble, it's a lot of dating app stuff going on, it's a lot of mutual friends. I think I've seen that too with friend groups start hanging out and then you see someone say, “Oh hey, my friend is gonna come over and hang out with our friend group tonight,” and then you get to know each other that way. I think a lot of times too with cohorts and classes I've seen that a lot, you know? You're taking the same classes with the same folks and so you get to know each other through that way. Or in organizations, you are in the same organization as someone. There's lots of opportunities that I think JMU specifically offers undergrad students to get to know each other and connect with one another on a different level. But that's my experience with it because I am so involved. I'm not as involved on dating apps and what not. Andrew, I don't know if you are, I would love to hear your thoughts.

20:11 Andrew: I have used dating apps, but, like, I've never experienced anything, I don't think, positive from them. I enjoy meeting people in person. Like you said, there's so many different, like, whatever student orgs and classes. I've met a lot of people from classes, that's just like it's random. Honestly, depends on the person, but like yeah, mutual friends is a big one, like meeting whatever friends of friends or like from other orgs and stuff like that. I've never experienced the whole, I've never been approached with a pickup line or anything, but also there's like, you know, the pressure or whatever that guys have to make the first move and like girls all the time don't want to do that.

20:52 Megan: Yeah. Andrew I'll set that up tomorrow I'll write a pickup line for you and I'm coming over. I think that's not to say that Tinder and dating apps and what not aren't all the rage because truly I do think they are. I know a lot of my mutual friends who said, “Oh yeah, we did meet on Tinder and we did go on dates and now we're, you know, officially a couple”. And to be honest, they're ashamed to say that. And I've had a lot of friends say, “Oh yeah, we just met at a party or something,” and then later on, they'll tell me, “No, no. We met on Tinder”. And it's because there's a stigma. Jordan just raised her hand! Yeah, go!

21:30 Jordan: I will share. Yes, my husband, we knew each other prior to dating apps. We knew each other when we were in high school, but we in fact were able to reconnect thanks to a dating app. I tell people that my husband does not tell people that, but it's not… we were able to use it. We used it and that is what was able to show us that we were obviously both dating and open to dating and single, and in the same area. So it was a - he popped up I was like, “Oh, oh my god!” And that's how it happened, but he doesn't like when I share that story. So….

22:15 Andrew: I've had the same experience, but I've known, like I've met people in class or whatever and then matched on Tinder and then you like have that mutual, like, you’ve already met in-person and you match then. Sometimes, like, I don't know if you've had this Megan, but like, you'll be friends with someone or you’ve met someone from a mutual friend or something, and then you'll match them on Tinder, and then it's like, changes it or like it means that like, “Oh, they're into you,” if you didn't know before.

22:44 Megan: Yeah, I think that's a big thing that kind of opens the door without you having to really say something in person because that's really scary. Going back to this vulnerability thing, when you see each other on Tinder it's like, “Oh, okay!”. They are kind of into that saying, “Okay, this is good,” and then you're already on that platform where it's easier to message each other not face-to-face, “Oh, actually, you are really cute,” or something like that, you know, in that channel. Oh my gosh, I feel like I sound 40 years old right now. You know, on that channel it's a lot easier than just doing it face-to-face because of that vulnerability aspect that we talked about. 

23:17 Jordan: Yeah! Well, that's really all the time we have. Sorry to cut you both short. This has been great! Thank you so much, both Megan and Andrew for being vulnerable with me and our listeners to share your experiences and your opinions around dating. I do want to ask though, because we brought it up, and I love this question. So I want to get your genuine response, knowing that Valentine's Day is coming up. What is your favorite pickup line?

23:57 Andrew: I mean, honestly I never, I don't think I've ever used the pickup line on Tinder, on any situation, I think they're corny personally. But I don't know. When I see people, or people show me theirs on Tinder, I like the ones that are like the, I don't know, the sexual ones are kind of funny, like I forgot. There's, there's one I'm thinking of, but I don't know what it is, but like, I don't really have a favorite one. I kind of think they're all corny, but if, if people like them...

24:33 Megan: Wait. Okay, Andrew, you said sexual ones. What are you referring to? 

24:37 Andrew: I’m trying to say like, I don't know, they'll be pickup lines like, I don't know I'm trying to think of the one that like ones I've heard but they're just like, referring to sex or just like as they just like sex pickup lines.

24:55 Megan: Okay, okay. Yeah.

24:57 Andrew: Am I making sense?

24:58 Jordan: I think to take away from this is just that... never to expect a pickup line from Andrew O'Brien. [Andrew: Just don’t. No.] That is not the way to your heart.

25:09 Andrew: No, absolutely not.

25:10 Megan: Bummer! I think, I think for me, I love a good, “Oh, do I know you from somewhere?” because that I'm always like, “Oh! Maybe you do!” Right? I get that a lot. And then I kind of fall for it and they’re like, “Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I know you from class,” and I’m like, “No, you actually don't know me from class”. Then I know what they're doing. I think I've never really gotten like a really hardcore pickup line in person other than like the, “Oh,you're so beautiful,” the one that I mentioned at Chick-fil-a, and that's always good: straightforward. I like good directness. I like confidence. But on Tinder and online stuff I get the funny ones obviously like, “Oh, did it hurt when you fell from heaven?”. Stuff like that.  Just make me feel good about myself, right? That's what makes me feel good, is if you call me pretty or whatever, because physical appearances. It means a lot to me, but I think those are the ones that make me feel confident about myself, like that's my favorite. When I'm saying to other people, oh golly, I don't think I've ever made… I don't think I've done a pickup line to someone else before. But I think if I did, I would do something like, “You have such kind eyes”. Something sweet and compassionate and not just superficial. But, yeah.

26:24 Andrew: Okay. I had to, like, I had to search this up just to justify what I meant. But like, this is an example of one I just found: “I'm on top of things. Would you like to be one of them?” Well, like that... I don't know how to explain it, but I think those are funny. 

26:43 Jordan: I agree. Yeah, I could hear like, oh, okay, someone's trying to be suave there, but also eww. 

26:53 Andrew: Yeah. I've only seen them mostly on like girl’s messages from guys. They're funny. They’re amusing. 

27:01 Jordan: You’ve got to appreciate the effort, right?

27:04 Andrew: Yeah, it's a little forward but…

27:06 Megan: I like it! Be forward. Be forward. Yeah.

27:10 Jordan: Alright, well thank you both again so much for doing this. I enjoyed hearing from you.

27: 16 Megan: Well, thanks for having us. I really enjoyed it. I always love talking about sex and and everything of the sort, so I have me back whenever I'm free, I'm free for you, Jordan, so.

27:26 Andrew: Yeah, thanks for having me. It was a fun conversation!

[Musical Interlude]

27:35 Aj: Wow. What a great insight into pickup lines and relationships during the COVID era!

27:42 Jordan: Yeah. Well Aj, I’ve got to ask. Do you have a favorite pick-up line? 

27:48 Aj: I don’t think I have a specific favorite pickup line that I’ve ever heard. I generally like pick-up lines that have humor, you know have a sense of humor to them because I really like a sense of humor in another person. One that my friend actually sent me was, “I’d like to take you to the movies, but they don’t let you bring in your own snacks”. Something like that where it’s funny, but it’s not sleazy. 

28:18 Jordan: Yeah. That’s cute. I like that. So next week’s episode is on the STI, Herpes. We always get a lot of questions about Herpes so we’re talking to one of our nurse practitioners to explain the differences and debunk some myths.

28:35 Aj: So, if you want to follow us on social media, you can follow us on Instagram @JMUWellDukes. And if you have any questions for us or want more information about what we’ve talked about this episode, you can go ahead and send us an email at welldukes@jmu.edu.

28:53 Jordan: And if you’re listening to this episode for HTH100, your passcode is “dating”. So remember, be well Dukes!