Links

JMU Reflections Website: https://www.jmu.edu/healthcenter/alcohol-other-drugs-updated/Reflections.shtml

Cannabis Tolerance Break: https://www.uvm.edu/health/t-break-take-cannabis-tolerance-break

Transcript

0:02 Intro: Hi there, welcome to Well Dukes, brought to you by the Well. Each week, you’ll hear conversations from a variety of JMU staff and students that we hope challenge what you know, think, or do in regard to your own health and helps you be Well Dukes.

0:21 Jordan: Hey there, everyone, it's Jordan. And with me today, I have a new and wonderful co-host, Paige Hawkins. Paige, this isn't your first experience with the podcast, but it is your first time chatting with me. So I'm happy to have you because you are certainly the expert when it comes to this episode on Reflections and cannabis use. So can you just explain briefly to the listeners, what Reflections is and your role?

0:47 Paige: Of course. I am an Alcohol and Other Drugs Support Specialist here on campus. I've been working in this field for 20 years, and I've been a facilitator for Reflections since 2012. Reflections is a really unique, confidential, free, one-on-one service. It's a space, a space where students have the freedom to think out loud, to be heard, and to feel accepted. In a Reflections appointment, students can consider for themselves if there would be benefits to changing the role of alcohol or cannabis in their life. And by changing I mean, they're cutting down, quitting, anything that might result in experiencing less or fewer undesirable things as a result of their use. Students can also celebrate the changes that they've already made, and the plan that they have for themselves in the future.

1:55 Jordan: So you see students for alcohol and cannabis use, correct? [Paige: Yes.] Okay. And so that word, cannabis, we use that language all the time. We use that, that word, and we know that it's also nearing the infamous holiday of 4/20, where our listeners may also be hearing terms cannabis, Mary Jane, marijuana, all different types of things. And I know that you've heard quite the variety of words as well. But can you explain why we use the word cannabis rather than marijuana?

2:30 Paige: Yeah, absolutely. So if you dig a little, you'll find that the term marijuana has a rather derogatory history. So we are utilizing “cannabis” as an inclusive word. It's a word that can refer to the dried flowers, the leaves, the stems, and the seed of the plant. Cannabis is also the preferred term within the industry and among lawmakers.

2:56 Jordan: Perfect. Yeah. Well, I'm really excited about this episode, because you actually had the opportunity to talk to a student that has gone through Reflections, and they share how that experience was for them.

3:08 Paige: This is a really special episode for me. Earlier this semester, I met with Dan, who is a current JMU student. Dan has been using cannabis for years. It was a large part of his life. In fact, it was a large part of his identity. Yet, he was beginning to have more undesirable experiences than desirable. And sadly, it's not often celebrated when someone seeks resources for growth and support. And privacy is important. We absolutely should and we do honor confidentiality. And there can be strength in sharing our truth and sharing our courage, as well as embracing and sharing our struggle or failure. Often it's when we fail, that we learn resiliency, and that we're guided in new directions. Dan learned about Reflections, he took a risk to schedule an appointment, he believed in himself. Dan is at a point in his life where he is ready to maximize his potential, not only in life, but at JMU. And for Dan, that means eliminating the barriers that could potentially interfere with his hopes and his goals. And I have to be honest, when I invited Dan to join me on the podcast, I honestly thought that he would reply to my email and politely decline. I am so glad that he said yes.

4:46 Jordan: Yeah, me too. I'm really excited for this. So let's get to it.

[Musical Interlude]

4:55 Paige: Well, thank you again, so much. I really, really have so much gratitude for you coming in today and being a part of the Well Dukes podcast. [Dan: It’s good to be here.] Earlier-- awesome! Earlier this semester, you and I met for a Reflections session. And I'm wondering, when you made the decision to schedule an appointment, Dan, what were your expectations?

5:27 Dan: Um, to be honest, I didn't necessarily have any expectations. Um, I, how I found out about Reflections was I emailed one of my previous, like, health professors Miss Lemons, cuz she said she was really involved in the Well and the Health Center. And I was teetering on coming in and just getting a chance to, like, vocalize like what I was feeling, like, when I was going through with regards to cannabis use. And she recommended me to come to reflections. So I didn't really have any expectations. But I will say, I was very pleased at the end of it. And like, the fact that I didn't have any expectations was nice, because I didn't know what to expect. So anything, yeah, anything that I was expecting? It was completely different… Yeah.

6:22 Paige: Yeah. Awesome. You came into Reflections with an open mind and a curiosity. There was something about cannabis in your life that you wanted to change, you wanted a different experience. And so the initiative that you took to reach out to a faculty member, and to follow up then on their recommendation for Reflections, that really that took a lot.

6:54 Dan: Yeah. I mean, I'm not gonna lie, that first step and just like, admitting that, like asking for help, and like reaching out to other people that aren't that you're not like, familiar with. That was probably the hardest part. Because I mean, it's kind of like a personal, like, a personal attribute to yourself. So it was kind of hard, like, getting outside my comfort zone, and really like having a conversation with someone that could help me like, move on and take the next step forward. Yeah.

7:29 Paige: Yeah. That's awesome, Dan, that you, you can recognize that on one hand, it is difficult. There's vulnerability… [Dan: There really is.} in reaching out and, and your experience was worth that discomfort. Did I get that right?

7:52 Dan: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it really was, I was a little apprehensive before I came in, I didn't know who I was going to be talking to, I didn't know I was going to be talking to you. Um, and when we first sat down, I didn't really know like, what to say, or how to start. Um, but I feel like our conversation like this past, like earlier in the semester, like, kind of just like, came naturally, like, I'd like the more I started talking, like, the more I started to feel like, it was more of a conversation rather than like me going to talk to somebody at Reflections that because that kind of has like a negative connotation to it. So I feel like once we started to talk, and me just like vocalizing everything that I've been feeling, um, it was... it's different than talking to friends. You know what I mean? Because it's someone that can, it's someone that you don't know that you're not familiar with, that can offer you, like, a different perspective, maybe a different, like mindset towards the whole situation, which I really appreciated. It's definitely refreshing.

8:56 Paige: Yeah, there is something about this space that was provided that allowed you to really hear yourself in a different way. And, Dan, tell me a little bit more about how you might describe what was unique about our conversation.

9:17 Dan: What was unique, I would say, just just the, like the, the whole, like, the whole atmosphere, I would say. It didn't feel forced, it didn't feel like I was being interviewed or interrogated. It didn't you didn't make me feel like I was in the wrong or I made a mistake, or I was this and I was that. It was really just a chance for me to express what I was feeling because I was walking around with just so many thoughts in my head. So many feelings like why is this why is that I didn't quite understand why. Like, I didn't really quite understand the position that I was in with regards to cannabis. dependency. So just getting a chance to come in, and like a welcoming atmosphere, um, that it was different. It didn't feel like I was going to talk to somebody for help. It kind of felt like I was just going to talk to somebody just to like, like, reveal what I was feeling. Yeah.

10:23 Paige: Yeah, I like I love how you just described that. And, and that's actually Dan, why we call this Reflections. This service that we provide for students is an opportunity to hold up a mirror, to really provide a space where students can learn about themselves. You are the expert on you, and on your strengths and your experiences on how you feel you may benefit from making a change. And in your case, Dan, that change was around cannabis in your life. So having a space where you can feel validated, and identify your strengths that will help you be successful, making that change. And then having someone who can hold that mirror up to you and allow you to see yourself from a different perspective can be really powerful in a pretty brief amount of time.

11:22 Dan: Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head when you use the mirror analogy, because it really is a mirror. Our conversation, it wasn't really like you asking me questions, like I sat down, you might have asked me one or two questions. But before I knew it, I was really just just unloading. Like, I was just expressing all, like every feeling that I was having. And you, it wasn't like you were prying or you were trying to like dig in. Um, it just came naturally. Because of like the welcoming atmosphere. And just like a casual conversation, I didn't feel like I was being, like, picked apart and like trying to like, figure out what was wrong with me, it was more. So just a chance for me to like, look back at my experiences, and really reflect on them, and be able to say them out loud, because there's a difference between having, like, feelings and thoughts inside you. And then being able to say them out loud to another person who was open minded and like ready to hear what you're saying. And that's what I really enjoyed about this experience. Because I've been walking around with a lot of like thoughts inside my head and just feelings. And I never really vocalize them out loud. And once I started to say them out loud, the ball just kind of started getting like rolling. And I think I've really, it really did just come naturally, there's really no other way to say it.

12:50 Paige: Yeah, as you were talking is making me think of an analogy that I sometimes share with students about, you know, you have all the pieces of the puzzle for yourself. And they're all laying out in front of you: your thoughts, your ideas, your curiosity, your strengths, what you find challenging, what's beneficial about cannabis use, what's undesirable about cannabis use, and having a space where you can come in and start putting those pieces of the puzzle together in a way that allows you to see the big picture. That's when what you described, and if the ball can start rolling.

13:33 Dan: Yeah, like I said before, it's that first step that you have to get over. And once you get over that first step and break down that comfort barrier that you put up and really kind of expose yourself to like feeling uncomfortable, because that's really what I think a lot of people struggle with is, they don't like the feeling of feeling uncomfortable. And yeah, that's kind of weird, but that's like the best way I can describe it. But like feeling uncomfortable does, like-- people trying to avoid that and the moment you start to embrace it, and the moment you start to realize that that's the first moment of change is that's when you start to make progress. And whatever you're doing, to be honest. Yeah.

14:15 Paige: Yeah Dan, what you just described is such a powerful statement.

14:20 Dan: Yeah, I mean, I, I used to just... I mean, I used to use cannabis to not feel uncomfortable, I don't know it was like my comfort zone, per se. So when I started to realize that cannabis itself was making me uncomfortable, I knew that I had to make a change. I'm just in like, my habits and like just my lifestyle. And since then, I think I have made changes in my lifestyle that have made me less uncomfortable and, like, more comfortable, like, within myself within my own skin. Like, my self esteem has definitely went up. Definitely, I'm like, a lot more active. And like, I wake up every morning and like, I like I'm happy, like, I'm ready to take on the day. And I feel like towards the end of my cannabis using phase, if you would call it, um, I would wake up tired every day. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't feel good about myself. And I would always feel groggy. And I would always feel like I was one step behind. So I think the conversation that we had really helped me take that next step, feel uncomfortable for a couple of days without it. But then after those couple of days were over, I really did feel like I was getting, getting going and being productive. And it was, it was almost crazy to see how much of a change our conversation made, because it really didn't make a lot of change, at least in my life. For sure.

15:57 Paige: Yeah, the timing was right for you, Dan, you came in with an open mind, a readiness to have a different experience with cannabis. It had evolved in your life into a place that you never intended for it to be. And it was more undesirable than desirable, your experiences were more undesirable than desirable. So you came in with already experiencing a discomfort with cannabis, and ready to reframe that for yourself ready to change. And the benefits that you described, that you began to experience in a really short amount of time, your energy, your motivation, all of the positives that you're experiencing now without cannabis, were worth the short term discomfort. Did I get that right?

16:57 Dan: Of course, yeah, of course. Um, I definitely felt like, there was kind of like, like a hole or like a piece missing. Um, when I was, like, using cannabis. And after the first couple of days, I felt like the hole even got even a little bit bigger because I'd stopped using cannabis. But as like the days went on, and even like, after the first week we can have, I felt like fulfilled, I felt like I, I really had like a-- I still do, but like, I feel like I have like a purpose and like a more determined... I have more discipline than what I was feeling a couple weeks ago, I guess.

17:46 Paige: Yeah. You've reconnected to your priorities, and to your values. And you're seeing so much potential in yourself.

17:54 Dan: And I remember saying to myself, I was like, This is what I was looking for, like, this is the feeling that I want to wake up every day and feel. And I just, I wasn't getting that with using cannabis. So that's what-- that's really what started me to looking into, like how to make a change. And that's what brought me to reflections was I knew I was looking for something and I knew cannabis wasn't it. And I knew that it may or may not have been, like, inhibiting me to find that purpose or to find that, like fulfillment. So that's why I initially wanted to, like start to try and change my lifestyle.

18:37 Paige: Dan, again, I have so much gratitude for your willingness to share with your fellow students at JMU this journey that you've been on, and the way in which you have learned about yourself, you've taken risks and the benefits that you've experienced from that the risks that you've taken.

19:02 Dan: Yeah, of course. Um, I don't, I don't really mind sharing. Like, this is a casual conversation like I really don't mind sharing my experiences because through this process, like I've had a very positive experience and like it has it has changed. Not my entire life, but it's definitely changed like my lifestyle aspect, like my day to day. And I just want other students to know that. Like, they're not if they're feeling this or like they're feeling that cannabis is like inhibiting them from having, like, a life of fulfillment and purpose. Like they're like they're not alone. Like they're not some outcast, and it's not that uncommon. And like I consider myself to be a normal guy, like I'm not some. I'm not way out there. I'm not off the grid. So like, it really is like just acknowledging, “Hey, yeah, I might have a cannabis dependency. And I'm not the only one. I'm not the only one feeling this.” And this is the next step and trying to change and trying to create change.

20:15 Paige: Absolutely. Thank you. Dan, I wonder. And you may have just shared a little bit of this, but I wonder what advice you might have for a student who's listening who might want to cut down or quit using cannabis, either now or sometime in the future?

20:35 Dan: Yeah, so I would say my advice is. Like methodic advice, would be, grab a piece of paper, grab a pen, and write down where you want to be in a year, where you want to be in five years, and then where you want to be in 10 years. That's what I did. And right next to those goals, list all the things that are going to prevent you from achieving them. And there were like, there were a couple of things on that... Prevent side, I would say, but the one that popped up in all three of those categories was cannabis. And so I've realized that, that's probably not the best thing to have. And so that's what kind of sparked me to really dive into, like making a change, because it's not easy. It really isn't. And like a lot of people, it does take work. But a lot of people are apprehensive to that work, and they don't want to put themselves in the position to have to work hard and feel uncomfortable. But my advice is, it's worth it, it really is worth it. Um, and some other advice I would have. It would just be like, acknowledging the thoughts and the feelings that you have within yourself. Don't push down feelings that are saying, “Hey, slow down, hey, you might have like a dependency, hey, this,” so I would acknowledge those feelings and, and really, like, not focus on them, but realize that they're there and realize that they're there for a reason. Because our bodies are the only things that actually know what we need 100% of the time, and they let us know. So the feelings that we have, the physical feeling, the physical feelings that we have, that all contributes to how we feel. And so if you're having those feelings, I would really recommend acknowledging them, and maybe even writing them down. And just read them out loud. And because when you vocalize it, when you read it out loud, you're gonna be like, “Oh, yeah, like, I do feel that like, Oh, that's probably not the best thing, or, hey, I should probably try this.” So, I mean, I would just, I would definitely get a piece of paper, write down your goals, write down what's going to prevent them from reaching them. And then just acknowledging that like, inner feelings, that gut feeling that you have, don't ignore that. Don't ignore it.

23:04 Paige: Yeah, yeah, definitely here, you're really empowering students to have a voice for themselves, to trust their voice, to listen to their voice, and to listen to their gut. When their gut and when their bodies may be telling them one thing. I hear you, Dan, saying give yourself permission, to be honest with yourself.

23:31 Dan: Exactly. And you might feel a certain way, and then you just make excuses for it. Or you make. Yeah, excuses. Yeah, you would say, let's just say like, “Oh, I have a feeling that I have cannabis dependency.” And then you would say, “Oh, no, I'm, I'm a teenager. That's fine. Like everybody smokes like it's not that big of a deal.” But hey, you just like that feeling that you had inside yourself said, “hey, maybe I should slow down a little bit. Or maybe I should go talk to somebody just to express what I've been feeling.” Don't ignore them. really trust your gut, and like, embrace it, embrace that feeling and realize that like, that's a special component that our body has to let us know when we need to change something about our lifestyle. So please don't ignore it. Please don't ignore it, because it's better to get out in front of it. before it starts to spiral out of control. And I'm glad I got in front of it before like I it was really, really hard to get back.

24:36 Paige: Yeah. Awesome. And, Dan, just a moment ago, you were saying how important it is when you do give yourself permission to be honest, listen to your gut, to reach out to learn about resources that are available for support, and Reflections at JMU is a resource for students and when we first began speaking today, you mentioned that there might be a stigma around it. And I wonder if you might share a bit more about why you think there could be a stigma for scheduling a Reflections appointment.

25:14 Dan: So I have a, I have a couple buddies and like they have had their negative interactions that have, like, made them like mandatory Reflections sign up. So that is kind of how like, the negative connotation comes with Reflections because it feels forced. And my biggest thing is, and this is what I realized, you're only going to get out of Reflections, what you want to get out of it. So if you go in with a closed mind, and “Oh, why am I here, I don't want to be here,” you're not going to get the same experience, same positive experiences I did. It's, it really is a good chance to just get into a room one on one with somebody who's, who's capable of trying, like, even if you can't put your own feelings into words like, like, sometimes, like, I couldn't even put my feelings into words, but you were very good at trying to connect the dots and what I was feeling, which I felt was very beneficial to me. Because I, there was a couple of moments where I couldn't connect the dots into what I was doing, how or why I won’t change it? How are we going to change it, and then what's next, and I feel like that whole process just overwhelmed me. And so that's what I was trying to get out of Reflections. So I feel like if you're going into it with that mindset, rather than “I'm being forced to be here, I don't want to be here,” um, you're gonna get a lot more out of it. As opposed to just sitting there in a chair with your arms crossed. It's not like saying anything like, “When is this over?” Yeah, if you, if you want to get something out of it, you're going to get something out of it. If you don't get any, like, if you don't go in wanting to get something out of it, you're not going to get something out of it. So I know Reflections kind of has a negative connotation, but I hope this con--, I hope our conversation like today really does try and help change that perception. Because it was very beneficial for me. And to be honest, I was a little surprised of how beneficial it was to me. So I'm just, I'm happy that we can start talking and start trying to change that whole picture, I guess of Reflections and because it's awesome. It really is a beneficial and positive experience for me.

27:38 Paige: Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your experience in Reflections and for being a part of our Well Dukes podcast today.

27:51 Dan: Thank you. Yeah, I'm excited to see what the future has, for sure. Yeah, thank you. And thank you again, because if I didn't have this meeting with your Reflections, I wouldn't have made the changes in my life that are necessary for me to achieve, like my career goals, but as well as like my personal goals as well. So I want to thank you again, because it really did start getting me to think about where I'm going and, because I just turned 20. And that's kind of scary because I'm a 20 year old. So now it's like you're starting to become an adult and, like, you are an adult. So you gotta start thinking about what's next. And where you see yourself in five and ten years and your our conversation really helped me put that into words and like vocalize it.

28:43 Paige: Awesome. Yeah, you are ready for the next phase of your life. And the sky's the limit.

28:49 Dan: Yeah, I’m excited. I’m really excited.

28:52 Paige: Awesome. Thank you so much, Dan.

28:54 Dan: Yeah, for sure.

[Musical Interlude]

28:58 Jordan: Wow. So amazing. I am so grateful for Dan. I love what Dan said in your conversation, how it helped reveal what he was feeling. And as you pointed out, Paige, the name Reflections is so indicative of the program itself. I also really loved hearing how Dan say he noticed the changes in himself. Like he noticed he had more energy, he was feeling more active, had more self esteem and, and really just that he was happy. And I think when a student has that self awareness it is so valuable for their growth, not only here at college, but also as they continue on beyond JMU.

29:39 Paige: Absolutely, it's a really powerful gift that they are giving themselves.

29:45 Jordan: Yeah, and Dan shared his experience of what led him to Reflections. But he also mentioned how you know, some students are mandated to the program. So Paige, as a facilitator, do you notice a difference in students that are mandated versus being self-referred like Dan?

30:01 Paige: Yeah, initially, perhaps. It is so hard to genuinely show up and invest to anything when it's not 100% our choice. And I do find that mandated students often have misperceptions about Reflections, or they're just so ready to check it off their task list and move on. However, within a few minutes of being together, whether it's in person or virtually, as it has been this year, students realize I don't have an agenda. Instead, I honestly believe that they are the expert on themselves. Dan also mentioned something that's really important, which is timing. Ambivalence about making a change in our lives is normal, it's expected, we are always ambivalent when we think about doing something differently. So we have to believe that the benefits of stepping outside our comfort zone will be worth it. And when the timing is right, it's awesome. At the end of my time with a student, it's really common for even a mandated student to say, “I wish I had known about this my first year,” or, “This is so much different than I expected.” And what I love is that after meeting with a student, I feel like we both share gratitude for the time that we had together.

31:37 Jordan: So would you say that is what keeps you passionate about your job?

31:42 Paige: Yeah, it is. The gratitude? It absolutely is, you know, college is such a time of growth, and discovery and freedom. And I really do feel like in my work, I get to be a part of helping to empower students to live their best life. And oftentimes, I feel like I plant seeds, I plant seeds of hope. And that definitely fuels my passion for this work.

32:15 Jordan: Yeah, I have no doubt that many of the students that have had sessions with you feel that same way.

32:21 Paige: Thanks.

32:23 Jordan: So lastly, Dan shared some of his advice for when it may be time to talk to someone. I'm curious if you have anything else you want to add that would be beneficial for our listeners. Are there any other takeaways that a JMU students should know when it comes to cannabis use?

32:40 Paige: Sure. Well, one thing that comes to mind for me is I often have people say, “What type of student is appropriate for Reflections?” And my response is always “any, any student.” whether a student drinks a little or a lot, whether a student uses a little bit of cannabis or a lot; Reflections can be beneficial. It can hold up a mirror and allow students to see what's going well, and where if it all, there is room for change. From the lens of thinking about takeaways in regard to cannabis, often a large motivation for students is avoiding legal risk. Laws are changing. Things differ state by state, it is complicated to say the least. Regardless of all of that, what we know is that cannabis is not and it won't be allowed on campus. So Reflections is a space where if they're interested, students can explore this, as well as additional campus and community resources that might be helpful for them during their time here at JMU.

33:57 Jordan: Awesome, thank you. So as always, we will have a link to learn more about Reflections or how to schedule an appointment in our episode description. And we're also going to put Paige’s email there in case any of y'all want to email her ask questions and learn more about Reflections. And also you can look for our Cannabis Corner and each monthly edition of Potty Mouth. Next week our episode will be in honor of Sexual Assault Awareness Month, we will be having Javay Da Bae back again to talk about how to support survivors of sexual violence. Paige, thank you again so much. This was a really special episode and something I'm really happy that Dan agreed to do. So thanks for being my co-host as well.

34:45 Paige: Yeah, thank you, Jordan. It's been great.

34:48 Jordan: Remember, be well, Dukes.